Syllogism App with emotions

[robert chalean]

You can chose the option emotions. Answer with keyboard key Z or X.

 Link: https://textoimagenes.appspot.com/emvm/#silogismos 

Thanks

[Leonardo]

I have some problems with your syllogisms. Like: 

KAV is more than KAG
KAG is more than KAV

And the abundance of some really easy ones. Like:

GAQ is the opposite to NOS
CET is the same as CID
NUL is the same as NOS
BES is the same as CID
BES is the same as GAQ

Is CID opposite to CET?

[robert chalean]

Hello Leonardo. Now i  have not time to change the code: if you like i can send you the source code to improve the App. Thanks!

[Leonardo]

I wish I knew how to program.

[Dvora]

hey robert
please send me the source code

ב-יום ראשון, 9 באוגוסט 2020 בשעה 9:24:24 UTC+3, Leonardo כתב/ה:

[Leonardo]

Try to do something about Dekoder too, it usually just play one number, no matter how many do you select. 

[robert chalean]

Now i fixed the "really easy" syllogisms problem.

Thanks!

El sábado, 8 de agosto de 2020 a las 5:14:44 UTC-3, Leonardo escribió:

[robert chalean]

Errors like (very uncommon): 

have some problems with your syllogisms. Like: 

KAV is more than KAG
KAG is more than KAV

Now is fixed. Thanks!

El sábado, 8 de agosto de 2020 a las 5:14:44 UTC-3, Leonardo escribió:

[robert chalean]

Hi! Here the source code link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ewHW6YBc0sZq4lDWE7yRmtwVJ7FCs054/view?usp=sharing

Thanks!

[robert chalean]

Improved Mobile support on Android

[tobyande...@gmail.com]

Hey Robert, I know JS, but not CoffeScript. Additionally, many of the variables and notes are en Espanol, so I doubt I could meaningfully contribute to the code.

Have you considered making a repository on GitHub?

It would be great to get interest from developers to help debug, polish visuals, or create features.

[Leonardo]

Me pregunto si sería mejor hacer los ejercicios en español. A veces me parece que realizar el entrenamiento en inglés activa partes muy dependientes de este idioma en mi cerebro. 

[성문규]

Hi Robert, I’d like to suggest a variation for the syllogism game(wonderful btw, I’m using it every day these days): have each of the premises appear one at a time, only once, so the player is forced to create a visual diagram/representation of how each object relates to one another. 

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[robert chalean]

Thanks for the suggestion, now you can do it! 

Demo video of the suggestion: https://youtu.be/_Bk9UzB78LE

Link of the App: https://textoimagenes.appspot.com/emvm/#silogismos

Thanks!

[itrn...@gmail.com]

Thank you so much!

[Leonardo]

Oh, man. I didn't see that you applied my feedback. Thank you so much! You are the best, man! 

[Leonardo]

YEF is less than QIN
ZEX is more than QIN
RUG is less than POC
ZEX is less than RUG
GIL is less than YEF

Is ZEX more than YEF?

Sadly, I still see that most of the times it doesn't work with more than two premises. 

[robert chalean]

Leonardo. Other option is test the function to show the syllogism one by one: video demostration: https://youtu.be/_Bk9UzB78LE Thanks!

[Leonardo]

That is certainly a very interesting function that I am going to explore. 

[Leonardo]

What is your experience with your own games? What benefits, if any, have you found? 

[tobyande...@gmail.com]

Here's my subjective experience.

I've been using this Silogismos almost daily now for about a week.

I recently changed my approach to increase difficulty, trying to answer the question without looking back to the clues (the built in function is broken for me).

I've also been learning Spanish with an Anki notes app for nearly a month.

I've found that after Silogismos training with my new approach, my Spanish word recall is more accurate and FAR faster.

Possibly training to recall flipped references is allowing me to more easily change my language reference to Spanish as well.

[Leonardo]

The page breaks down after a few rounds both in Chrome and Edge when I try to play with the hiddenQuestion enabled. 

[Leonardo]

I meant with " the function to show the syllogism one by one".  

[robert chalean]

I fixed some errors, if you want you can check if now works.

Thanks!

[robert chalean]

The benefits are difficult to prove to me. I dont know sometimes i feel a more fluid thinking. But that can be the effect of sleep, eating exercise, a day without stress, social interaction, etc

Thanks! 

[Leonardo]

Sadly, it keeps breaking down when I try to show the syllogisms one by one. 

[Leonardo]

With Images it holds a few rounds, with Sistema Mayor, which is my prefered method, it doesn't even launch anymore. 

[Leonardo]

I think that it breaks or not depending on the number of syllogisms. 2 syllogisms break the page every time. 3 work most of the time... 

[robert chalean]

Hello, i fixed the error of 2  and 3 syllogisms stoping the game.

https://textoimagenes.appspot.com/emvm/#silogismos

Thanks!

[Wilma Skillma]

Thank you Robert Chalean!

Op woensdag 16 september 2020 schreef robert chalean <robert...@gmail.com>:

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[Leonardo]

Thank you, man! You are this group! 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brain-training/28b7e594-4af8-4fc4-aa42-ca9cf867d508n%40googlegroups.com.

[Leonardo]

I'm doing 5 syllogisms one by one with a 80% accuracy. It is somewhat taxing, more than anything on the official SMART program. I will jump to 6, but I am not really feeling any benefit yet. 

[Leonardo]

6 syllogisms one by one +80% achieved. But I needed 4 seconds each to keep track of everything. No effects to comment. 

[Leonardo]

90% 7 syllogisms one by one, more-less + same-opposite, sistema mayor, 4 seconds. I keep visualizing the stuff in my head as in a painting or a movie, I don't know if that is a good way of doing it. 

[robert chalean]

Almost all ok more or less with images 2 second 3 syllogism I create histories one win to other image

[Leonardo]

I am stuck with 8 syllogisms. I am getting 60% right, which is not that much more than chance. 

[robert chalean]

May be you can up the speed

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[Leonardo]

With 1 second I do 3 syllogisms with +70%. It is certainly painful at this speed. My brain hurts. Which I think may be good. I really appreciate your app. It works flawlessly now. Thank you. 

[Leonardo]

10 syllogisms, modo mayor, one by one, 4 seconds, +80% accuracy. Still, I find no apparent benefits. 

[Leonardo]

3 syllogisms, images, one by one, 2 seconds, 90% accuracy. It would be nice higher res images for 4k displays. I find really hard to tell what is going on. 

[성문규]

Are you creating a mental image by putting together/organizing all the different items in spatial relationships?

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[성문규]

For me this is super hard. I can’t create complete vivid represents that I can continuously manipulate in my head for 5 or above premises yet, but I’m improving slowly

[Leonardo]

Yes. I use different methods for more-less and same-opposite. For more-less I tend to imagine things above or under one another. For example, loco above vaso but under the umbrella of a seta. It helps that Spanish is my first language. For same-opposite I equip one element with the others. For example, for sacha, I imagine Sasha Grey, holding a noria, like the Statue of Liberty, and hitting with it a foca. I am pretty confident that I can get to the limit of 15 syllogisms, but I need 4 seconds for each to form a clear picture; I am very slow, when I reduce the available, time my results go to hell. I would like to reach perfection with 4 seconds and then gradually diminish the time. But, for example, with 1 second or half a second, my brain gets a really hard time reading and creating the picture. I tend to memorize all the sentences, and then create the picture in my head just before answering, and that is really tough and imprecise. One of the issues I have been getting with really short times, like half a second, is that after the training I am very anxious and imprecise when reading books. 

I don't know whether it is coincidence or not, but just last night, after doing the levels I commented here, I got really vivid dreams and incredibly detailed visualizations when I was falling asleep. 

[Leonardo]

I have also been doing quad-4-back with 50 to 100% interference lately. Which is really tough on its own, but I don't know if that adds anything to my capacity of solving syllogisms. 

[Leonardo]

Doing the 10 syllogisms with 4 seconds is maybe a 5 in difficulty for me, whereas doing quad-4-back with 50% interference is an 8, and doing 3 syllogisms with 0.5 seconds is a 9.

[Leonardo]

I have done a few 15 syllogisms with 4 seconds and I got a 100% accuracy. At this point, even 4 seconds feel rushed, because you have to maintain a lot of relationships in your head. Robert, up the limit to 20! 

I think that one of the issues with this training is that the relationships are always too simple. I should learn to program to make really fucked up ways of training. 

[Leonardo]

Imagine this but with 20 premises:

https://4skinskywalker.github.io/Syllogimous/

[robert chalean]

I am improving I perceive less effort to complete the task even with less practicing over the week

[Luke]

I did the SMART training by raiseyouriq.com a number of years ago. I didn't notice any effect, but I suspect that's because I finished the training very quickly and felt that it was too easy. I know that the brain can change because I've done lots of neurofeedback and have experienced profound effects from that.  I just recently started training dual n back a couple weeks ago and I think I'm starting to notice subtle benefits, I think changes will become more pronounced once I get several more weeks of training under my belt and reach a score of around 7 back. It is definitely way more taxing than SMART training. I had to take a nap after my first session of dual n back. It reminded me of how I felt after neurofeedback sometimes so I'm sure it's doing something.

[Luis Anaya]

Do you think this exercise can train your working memory, because of the amount of relationships you have to maintain?

[Leonardo]

Yes, I do think so. But I have no proof. 

[robert chalean]

[itrn...@gmail.com]

I'm not sure if this matters, but I think longer training sessions, like 100 consecutive problems with 4 premises, may have a greater meditation-like effect than shorter sessions. I've tried 70-80 consecutively(each problem 4 premises, 2.5 seconds for each premise) at a time for the last 3 days or so, and it seems to be the case for me. I usually did 10-20 at a time instead of 30 or more. It was hard at first but I was really able to reach some sort of flow state when I got into the rhythm. Cool stuff.

[Leonardo]

It would be possible to add new words to Sistema Mayor, Robert? I think that the main benefit from doing this is an increased capacity for visualization, and I think that this benefit will be greater with more and more interesting words. 

I have the theory that the studies only show an increase in IQ in challenged people because the SMART training allows you to improve your reading, which may be the limiting factor for the worst performers. But showing the premises one by one does something entirely different, and I think that we should pursue this something by increasing the number and interest of words. 

For example: I don't think that chama is a good word, because it is hard to visualize, but nife, cohete, luna, falo... create extremely complex and interesting images in my head, like when image-streaming, but having to hold the images in my head. I have found that my imagination and my dreams are incredible lately. 

[itrn...@gmail.com]

Hi Robert, would it be possible to add a self paced mode for silogismos? I feel that self paced would definitely help make sure that players actually pay attention and maintain the mental representations they formed using each premise before moving on to the next one. I think this also mirrors the way we learn by integrating new pieces of information into an already formed representation, while maintaining what has already been visualized up to that point(and thus not forgetting previous details too easily). Thanks for your consideration Robert.

[itrn...@gmail.com]

To clarify, by self paced, I mean giving players control over when to replace the previous premise with a new one, not moving on to a new question.

[Leonardo]

I do only 2 or 4 rounds when I am at 15 syllogisms, because my brain is unable to delete the images and after a while I can not remember anymore where everything belongs. So I need to take a pause in order to forget the previous challenges to be able to play again. I think that this effect would also be reduced with a greater pool of words and the possibility to train at levels beyond 15. One thing that I have noticed with this training is that my drawing skills have gone up at an insane pace lately. Also, my dreams are intrincated and very vivid when I do some training before going to sleep. 

I will post the image as a link, because every time that I try to upload it, the page crashes. 

https://postimg.cc/grY3qjwV

[Leonardo]

If I am able to keep focused, I always get 100% right. I only fail when something, like a noise or a phone message, makes me shift my attention or my brain drifts towards other thoughts on its own. Although I believe that the thing that it is trained the most is visualization, it is obvious that attention and patience are also developed. Another thing that I have experienced is a heightened ability to quote what I have heard or read with precision. I also believe that my orthography has improved a little. I have suddenly developed an interest for very difficult books. That may be due to the trained patience or a greater confidence. For last, and this is the most strange phenomenon of all, it seems like I win almost every single argument lately, and people have been saying to me that I am way smarter than what they thought. Take all of this with a grain of salt, I do not feel smarter, and I become frustrated when I observe little to no transfer from the training in things like remembering new words or writing in a better English. If this does something positive, it is very subtle, and I have only started to notice it at 15 level. Which makes me think that I may still be undertraining. I will keep myself vigilant for new feedback from my close ones. 

[Leonardo]

I do not want to forget to say how much grateful I am towards you, Robert. Thank you for your work. You are awesome. Muchas gracias querido amigo; si puedo hacer algo por ti, pídemelo. 

[robert chalean]

Hello!

New update: 

Level limit set in 45 syllogism

Add Manual mode (pass syllogism with a key)

Add New list of words in spanish (palabras 2 - 360+ words)

Add Major System Words in English

Link: https://textoimagenes.appspot.com/emvm/#silogismos

The App is experimental  may contain errors

Thanks Leonardo!

[Leonardo]

Robert. I love you. 

[Leonardo]

One thing that I see is that the timer still works in the background when you are using manual mode. I tried the 20 syllogisms manual mode, but I got screwed up for taking up too long. I have left it on and unattended intentionally only to come back and see that I failed everything. 

[성문규]

Thank you so much Robert! You are truly amazing. 

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[robert chalean]

For now i put the timer in 120 minutes

Thanks 성문규!

[Leonardo]

I am really suffering with 20 syllogisms. I am convinced that I got everything under control, but then my answer is wrong. It is certainly making my brain hurt. 

[robert chalean]

Now Add colors mode... (I think the limit of syllogism with colors is 25)

Link: https://textoimagenes.appspot.com/emvm/#silogismos

Thanks!

[robert chalean]

If color mode have errors try clear cache or link: https://textoimagenes.appspot.com/emvm

[Leonardo]

Well, 100% accuracy with 20 syllogisms, manual mode, sistema mayor. I will try 25 next time. 

[Leonardo]

I am having real fun practicing with 30 premises... Oh, boy. This is certainly doing something to my brain. Good or not, I don't really know. 

[Leonardo]

30 is achievable! Is anyone else trying this? I think that it is an excellent method to train the mnemonic link system.

[성문규]

What sort of mnemonics are you using? 

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[Leonardo]

I visualize the objects. I explained it here. In more-less, I situate things above or under one another. In same-opposite I just keep combining them. 

[Leonardo]

Using a similar method, I have been able to achieve quad-6-back for the first time in my life. 

[Leonardo]

I will try 45 when I find some silence. It is really hard to train or study with all the noise in this house. 

[Leonardo]

I did only one with 40 syllogisms and manual mode, I got it right, and this is how long it took: 

Tiempo total respuestas: 17 minutes, 15 seconds, 68 millis | Promedio de tiempo 17 minutes, 15 seconds, 68 millis | Penalizacion iconrrectas 2 seg.

[Leonardo]

It seems like that is the total of all my attempts today, I was shocked that I took that long. It is possible a limit of 100? I want to try it. 

[robert chalean]

I am testing this type of training. I think that have some of relational thing.

Demo video: https://youtu.be/Nt6VVwb9e6Y

Link App: https://competicionmental.appspot.com/router?page=mindmapmemory&n=5&time=0&type=5&connect=1

[robert chalean]

Hello!

Add limit to 299

Add English Words (360+)

Link: https://textoimagenes.appspot.com/emvm/#silogismos

Thanks!

[itrn...@gmail.com]

I really like this one. Thanks for adding the link!

[Leonardo]

299! I already get headaches from 40! hahaha, I am going to kill myself. Thanks, Robert, you are the best. In regards of the new training, I would find interesting to have to answer some questions, if they don't exist, I don't think one is able to really train. 

About silogismos, in order to greatly improve the relational training I have two suggestions: 1) to increase the number of questions. When you are memorizing 40+ premises, it is really hard to do more than one exercise at a time, because you can not effectively forget the previous one, or at least I can not, and you get really confused when everything starts adding up. It would be nice, and it would force you to really understand every relationship inside the exercise, to have several questions at the end instead of just one. 2) Increasing the variety and complexity of the relationships between premises is a must in order to really obtain a benefit from this training. In real life, relationships are not as easy as more-less or same-opposite, and the different kinds appear all at once, not one class at a time. https://4skinskywalker.github.io/Syllogimous/ is something that can serve a little as an inspiration, even though it is also not enough. In order to cultivate some of our delightful transfer, we need to learn to more closely imitate real life.

Having said all of that, I can assure you that this one is the most effective and powerful training that I have done in my entire life, and I have tried everything, with a lot of advantage over the second, which is quad-back. It has revolutionized my entire way of thinking, reading and remembering. The effects are profound enough that it is impossible for me to doubt its effectivity, but I clearly see that it needs to be harder in order to make a difference. In its current state, it is like a 5kg dumbell: you will get stronger doing 40+ repetitions, but you will improve much more with a heavier one. 

It is hard to express how powerful and effective is this training, and I am completely sure that with some adjustments it would be the silver bullet that we have been waiting for. In the study that you posted, Robert: https://groups.google.com/g/brain-training/c/8Pb6FdnL4fg only the kids with the least capacity improved their intelligence, the hypothesis of the researchers was that the training was not hard enough for the smart kids. If we want to become geniuses, we need to train at their level. 

[Leonardo]

What have I experienced from this training? The most important thing is that I have gained awareness of myself and of everything around me. It is somehow hard to explain. What I usually saw as individual phenomena, now I see as part of a web. For example: I am much better at understanding films and predicting their endings. I saw The Life of David Gale and Under the Skin recently, two relatively obtuse works, the second one is a masterpiece in my opinion, and I predicted very soon what was going to happen. This is because I have a mental map of everything, and I am able to actualize it with every new bit of information. Reading and studying are a delight for this reason: I feel that I keep training at Silogismos, the transfer is that clear. I am able to remember and understand much more of the material, to the point that I feel like another person entirely. I have always have terrible issues concentrating, but not with this mindset, I am now able to see what I am reading with my mind's eye at a definition that I believed not possible not long ago. In regards of everyday performance, particularly social performance, I still feel that it is hard to apply the strategies or way of thinking that I have trained and learnt with this. It is certainly possible, but I feel that it requires a lot of effort and it does not come off as natural. I think that the training, at its current state, does not closely enough resemble everyday challenges, that it is why I think that it must be improved. 

[Leonardo]

The training on its own is very pleasurable. I recommend to use my settings: Sistema mayor, more-less + same-opposite, manual. The weird images that come to mind are very amusing on their own right, and one does not get bored at any point. It is very important to visualize things as vividly as one is able to do so. For example: in chivo is the same as coche, I imagine a pretty cool goat with sunglasses driving the car into the sunset; if anything else is the same as coche or chivo later, for example sebo, I just imagine it in one of the seats or in the road, in this case: a really fat, greasy guy inside, and the goat being pissed off at his car being trashed. I do not memorize with words, I think that this would be impossible for me, I need to really see things to be able to memorize them. You are not going to forget a goat driving a car with a fat passenger. This has teached me that I can do the same when I am reading any material. I can just create images in my head and relate them to better understand and follow the contents. I was reading Tristram Shandy, because of the insane complexity of its structure, and visualizing it in form of mental maps it is both a pleasure, an excellent way of practicing transfer and a delight. 

[Leonardo]

If anyone has any question, I am pleased to answer them. I am maybe the person who has trained the most and the hardest at this thing. Again, thanks for it, Robert. Is there a way to download your program in order to never lose it? I do not think I would be able to live without it! 

[Leonardo]

Some evidence I have just found about syllogistic reasoning and reading comprehension that it is in consonance with my experience:

It is concluded that measures of syllogistic reasoning account for higher-order thinking processes that are needed to make inferences in reading comprehension. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4796350/ 

[robert chalean]

Hello Leonardo:

Here the link of the offline App: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YfSD9kCitMjPEcLjpg6oQM84J9bTAHxA/view?usp=sharing

I think you can use this Server to run the App offline: https://www.apachefriends.org/es/index.html

Video tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0_pthMQPMM create a folder with the name for example "em" in htdocs and copy the content of the zip file (em-october) in it then run in http://localhost/em#silogismos

What is new?

+Add more than one question but for now the answer taken into account is the last.  (multiple question only enable in manual mode and auto mode)

Link of App: https://textoimagenes.appspot.com/emvm/#silogismos

Thanks!

[Leonardo]

Thanks for applying the suggestions! At this point, it is very weird to have a lot of questions but only being able to answer the last one, but this will be neat soon. Your work is fast and extraordinary, you sure work like an animal. Have you been training lately? Have you found some of the benefits that I talk about? What do you think about the possible improvements that I suggest? 

[robert chalean]

Hello. I'm doeing several trainings at the same time. Practicing with multiple question (new mode) and then view a Netflix Serie make  logical atotomatic question that  pop up in my mind trying to predict the plot. Then when i see and object i think automatically in relation like a mental map of things around me. Next day i think normal not to much reasoning.

 

I think in an App that do a representation of a random mental map in propositions like Ball connect with house, house connect whit rabbit... then you have to answer true or false the distance of elements rabbit with house is 2 elements of distance.... Then you have to visualize  the mental map to answer the questions. 

Other think is that the mix of less-more+opposite-same.

(ball same house same rabbit) less than ( (golf same dog) opposite  (duck)   ) 

but you can separate in

ball same house

house less golf

golf same dog

rabbit less  dog

golf opposite duck

duck more than ball

Is golf opposite house ? (operation not defined)  False?

Is dog more than rabbit ? false

Is duck less than ball? false

Is Golf opposite duck? true

Thanks!

[Leonardo]

I have also thought of the second idea, great minds think alike, and yours is pretty great, it would be an excellent feature, for sure! But, if I may, I would like to suggest another version of the first idea: House is north of rabbit, rabbit is south of ball, ball is east of car, and then you have to enter the map... Something like that. Obviously, I do not know what it is possible or how to apply it, that is all on you. 

[Leonardo]

Another great feature would be to be able to see the syllogisms after you have answered the questions in manual mode. I just failed a 50 one, and I was very confident about my answer. It would be nice to see where did I messed up. 

[robert chalean]

Here a first version of the Mental Map Idea: http://leerencolores.appspot.com/router?page=map

You have to answer the distance.

[itrn...@gmail.com]

The multiple directions idea is really nice. Expanding on that, I think being able to distinguish between nearby points on a visualized grid at any time would force the visualizations to become more "high-resolution", as positions of new points are given relative to another(not necessarily the one right before) and start to occupy adjacent grid points. Perhaps a grid of integer increments could be used instead of a standard x-y orientation? For example, North North West of "Banana" could just mean 2 up, 1 left, from some previously mentioned point banana. Difficulty might be adjusted according to the maximum size of the grid being used for a particular question. Questions might be about relative positions and/or whether two points occupy the same point, etc. But really, not sure how useful this will actually be. Just an idea. I'm more curious about what other ideas you guys have. You guys are contributing so much to this. I truly thank both of you, and I hope more people like us get to see this.

[Leonardo]

I do not think I understand the game, or it is not functional yet, at this point of development. 

I have been thinking in how to improve and increase the transfer of the silogismos game; first, I think that the direction idea would, in fact, help improve everyday orientation, and we can have not only indications on a plane, but in multiple floors as well. Robert already did a 3D-n-back. Thinking of this, I have came to the conclusion that there are multiple elements that would help with resembling everyday reasoning. The first one is to be able to have categories in multiple dimensions; we were thinking about position, but this is not the only thing that we can have: we can have older-newer, hotter-colder, bigger-smaller, richer-poorer, etc. Toro is older, hotter, smaller and poorer than chivo. That would be really difficult to follow after a while. I know that it is the same kind of relationship as more-less with other words, but it will force some complex and detailed visualizations, and it will allow us to have elements with multiple characteristics, as we have in real life. 

One thing that comes very unnatural about how this game functions is that the relative positions are always the same. For example: if toro is more than chivo, you already know that toro will always be immediately above chivo, and that no other element will ever be in between them; that limits the potential for actualization of the information. You may say: toro is more than chivo. Toro is more than car. And only then: car is more than chivo. That would be harder and more nuanced, I feel that it is a very organic way of increasing the prevalence of 'if' statements, which are present in our day to day life. The more complex and fluid the network of relationships, the better we are approaching a transferable training. 

If one researches about everyday reasoning, one sees that some-all statements, like in the syllogimous app (https://4skinskywalker.github.io/Syllogimous/) are common place, I think that we must find a coherent and organic way of introducing them into our training. I will think about it. 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10763-019-10039-8/figures/3

I also think that transfer is a trainable capacity, and that one must put great effort in things like, as Robert do, anticipating to the script in TV shows, or, hopefully, applying deliberately this hard work to their social relationships, work and studying. I see it as the training being 50% of the deal. One must then apply it consciously and with effort! 

I find kind of amusing how much harder is Robert's version compared to the original one. It is kind of nuts how much farther we have got. This is some pioneer stuff. I am really enthusiastic with all of this.  

[Leonardo]

I came to the realization that one of my previous suggestions was in fact pretty ill-thought. Although I believe that we indeed navigate reality and create our understanding of the world by juggling multiple categories at once and relating the characteristics of one object with the ones of the rest, it is not common, except in very specific cases, to relate all the attributes of one object to the ones of only one other object. This is why I think that creating premises in the line of: Toro is hotter, bigger and older than Car would be much worse in terms of its transfer than creating premises in the line of: Toro is hotter than Car, bigger than Chivo and older that Saco. 

I am really excited with all of this. We are recreating the way in which a person learns to navigate the world. We would be training something that we can barely train except while growing up. I really believe that this would be the most effective intervention ever created.  

[Leonardo]

Of course, I think that this would make easier to apply the multiple questionnaire at the end. One question for each category. 

[Leonardo]

Adding to the more-less, we may also include an "as". I know nothing about programming... How factible is to learn from the scratch in order to help with the project, Robert? 

[itrn...@gmail.com]

Hey Robert! I think this mental map game is similar to silogismos right now, but I think the key differences are actually beneficial: 1. Silogismos uses more/less and same/opposite which often causes the player to use repetitive styles of creating networks, but the mental map game doesn't point the player in any direction in terms of how to organize the nodes and direction of arrows in their imagination. 2. This might resemble actual learning better than silogismos because often times we need more information to know that a certain way of orienting the objects is logically sound, after which, the visualization becomes a lot more straightforward. I guess silogismos gives the player that logic from the start(more/less or same/opposite), which is a little different than how we learn and probably a little easier than if we don't have that logic from the start, unless there are multiple types of such logic in one series of statements. 3. The fact that we can have more than one connection sprouting from each node makes everything a lot more complicated and more like mental maps of real life phenomena. 4. The questions are based on the length of network needed to be traversed to reach another node, which probably requires  Although silogismos is more polished right now in terms of the smaller details(evaluating answers, self paced, one premise/statement at a time, more customizable controls, etc), I'd say this game has more potential, unless Leonardo's ideas on categorization(syllogimous) and/or multiple types of relational logic in the same series of premises comes to fruition; maybe this can be how people start to think/imagine more adeptly in more than 3 dimensions! Thanks as always Robert!

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 7:48:30 AM UTC+9 robert...@gmail.com wrote:

[itrn...@gmail.com]

*requires more interaction with what the network that the player has visualized, which in theory should prove to me a more arduous endeavor than doing the same with a one-dimensional spectrum, because of needing to both have a general idea on where to go from one node to another, but also being able to search for other potential pathways of shorter length.

[Leonardo]

I do not think that both trainings have to be mutually exclusive. N sets of syllogisms can be situated in Y number of places, altering the combination between premises. For example, Toro is hotter than Chivo. But places 1 and 2 have opposite qualities, therefore, if Toro is placed on P1 and Chivo in P2 (we can use even names of cities), the relationship is inverted and and Chivo is hotter than Toro. The training may follow this steps:

- You learn the characteristics of the objects in the fashion that I have explained before. With the multiple categories and all. 

- You learn the map and the relationships between points. 

- Then, you are asked: Given that object 1 is situated in place 2 and that object 2 is situated in place 1:

 And then keep asking all the questions about the two objects. Including positions, if you want. 

I hope that I have expressed myself clearly enough. 

[Leonardo]

If the two places or cities are connected by multiple steps, you can have multiple modifiers. 1 opposite to 2, 2 same as 3, etc. It is a cool way of adding a same-opposite layer of logic to a more-less layer. I am sure that we can then create above that a third layer with all-no-some. We will have then the perfect relational system.