About Separation
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Prasanthi Uppalapati
Dec 7, 2009, 2:04:16 PM12/7/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Hi,
This is not to trigger a heated discussion, not for argument or to hurt anyone's sentiments.
I am neutral on this issue though I may slightly bent towards a united AP as I do not know anything about the history and background of this movement.
Being neutral helped me to look at the issue in a detached manner and some truths were revealed. May be we can never understand others' feelings until and unless we keep ourselves in their shoes and look from their point of view. (I used to wonder that if I start thinking being in other's shoes, who will think about me...... not even myself!! But after coming to know about the six hats method, I was very much convinced. No one can sacrifice and no need to grab other's shoes ... to stand on them :) We can only stand on the isse and look at it from different view points, viewing together at each one at a time)
When I read about Indian Partition, I thought it was not good, separation was a bad decision and that to based on a religion. But I didn't understand why there should be so much bloodshed and when it was decided to be separated, why should it be in such a barbaric manner? Also I didn't understand why and how come women were tortured. But I was very much moved after viewing the movie Pinjar. I wonder to the extent we, humans, can stoop!!
When there rise any differences between Hindus and Muslims, often some fanatics ask Muslims to leave India. I understood how they would have felt, when time and again KCR used dirty language on Andhra people.
If you want separate land, demand. Why abuse fellow Telugus? We never will try to find ways and means to unite but always look for the way out, to divide. From the Unity in Diversity, we are moving towards Diversity in Unity.
I really do not know why people are so emotional and sentimental over Telangana. I somehow cannot understand why leader after leader should cheat Telangana (as claimed by the supporters of Telangana movement). Do all leaders were/are bad? In these leaders list', weren't/aren't there any single person from Telangana?
(I am only stating my questions. Not arguments. Do not throw brickbats on me. You can direct me to any URLs or authentic info. on this subject)
One of my ex-colleagues gave a convincing reply to this question. He said that...... if in a family of two sons, one son's land is not good for cultivation and the other one's is fertile and with lot of potential, and they are in an undivided family, water resource and availability is less, what would be the option before the family Head? Would he consider the second son's land and try to get crop for the entire family or divert the water to the not-so-fertile land and waste all the resources, ending up with less yield!! ( I am not sure if this is the reason) I am not sure if the fruits of so-called yield have been shared with the entire family.
All the leaders, who say that Telangana has been cheated for many years pre and post independence, ever asked for any development projects for their place other than demanding for a separate state? Same applies to one community too. Their leaders claim that the other community is so developed and they are not so. Why? Does the other community and its people came in the way of your development? Aren't they responsible for the plight of their community despite govt. trying its best to provide education and other benefits?
Why can't the demand for a separate state be peaceful? Why should buses be burnt and shopping malls attacked? Are the students responsible or the so-called leaders? Doesn't the answer apply to the accusation on another serious incident in the Indian history of recent times? Is it people's movement or leaders' coup?
My sincere respects to all those who firmly stood by a cause that they believed in and sacrificed their lives. May peace prevail. Let no mother wail for her children.
--
Thank you.
with regards,
PRASANTHI.
http://groups.google.com/group/birdsofsamefeathers
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When you want something, the whole universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Thank you.
with regards,
PRASANTHI.
http://groups.google.com/group/birdsofsamefeathers
----
When you want something, the whole universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Ajit Dembla
Dec 7, 2009, 2:29:47 PM12/7/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
You have raised Profound Questions - Prasanthi. My take as an indian is as follows:
Indians remained slaves due to British Divide and Rule policy. The British have gone, but the current day Indian politicians have learnt their art.
Look at Jharkhand, created from Bihar & a Madhu Koda, made 2,000 Crores. Had Bihar been a single state, no Madhu Koda would have been created. Politicians want separation, so as to divide power. There is no interest to develop any state or people. Today even congress leaders representing telangana areas are talking of supporting telangana. Why - cant they develop those very areas under AP govt rule ? What stops them ?
AP Budget outlay this year is say X Crores. Will this budget become 2X after splitting the state ?. Any good student of basic economics will tell you that the overheads will double. we will need 2 capitals / 2 legislatures ... all state machinery overheads are doubled for ever. Revenues remain the same and the common man - STAYS WHERE HE WAS. What doubles is the corruption and the corrupt leaders.
The students, who are rampaging are being made the fodder, and they fight for politicians cause. The only and sole beneficiary of the divide will be the political and bureaucratic class.
It was apalling how recently when Congress and NCP were locked in govt formation at Maharashtra, the following statement was made....
" NCP has ministries worth 20000 crore of annual budget outlay, congress has only 14000 crore of annual outlay ministries. And congress has more seats than NCP. We also have to keep our members happy " !!!
So blatant is corruption ! There were open talks of how creamy ministries were on this side etc. It took 14 days for a coalition with clear majority, to take the oath of office !
May HE kindly shower some sense on Telangana-ites. Anyways from latest reports it seems, telangana is bound to happen now. its only a matter of 2 - 3 years....It will be interesting to see, what happens to hyderabad city.
b/reg,
AD
--
B/regards,
Ajit Dembla
Indians remained slaves due to British Divide and Rule policy. The British have gone, but the current day Indian politicians have learnt their art.
Look at Jharkhand, created from Bihar & a Madhu Koda, made 2,000 Crores. Had Bihar been a single state, no Madhu Koda would have been created. Politicians want separation, so as to divide power. There is no interest to develop any state or people. Today even congress leaders representing telangana areas are talking of supporting telangana. Why - cant they develop those very areas under AP govt rule ? What stops them ?
AP Budget outlay this year is say X Crores. Will this budget become 2X after splitting the state ?. Any good student of basic economics will tell you that the overheads will double. we will need 2 capitals / 2 legislatures ... all state machinery overheads are doubled for ever. Revenues remain the same and the common man - STAYS WHERE HE WAS. What doubles is the corruption and the corrupt leaders.
The students, who are rampaging are being made the fodder, and they fight for politicians cause. The only and sole beneficiary of the divide will be the political and bureaucratic class.
It was apalling how recently when Congress and NCP were locked in govt formation at Maharashtra, the following statement was made....
" NCP has ministries worth 20000 crore of annual budget outlay, congress has only 14000 crore of annual outlay ministries. And congress has more seats than NCP. We also have to keep our members happy " !!!
So blatant is corruption ! There were open talks of how creamy ministries were on this side etc. It took 14 days for a coalition with clear majority, to take the oath of office !
May HE kindly shower some sense on Telangana-ites. Anyways from latest reports it seems, telangana is bound to happen now. its only a matter of 2 - 3 years....It will be interesting to see, what happens to hyderabad city.
b/reg,
AD
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B/regards,
Ajit Dembla
Pat xyz
Dec 7, 2009, 9:45:48 PM12/7/09
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Hi,
Very well said. It is painful to see so much destruction . finally no benfit to the poor and distressed. Where is the country going?
Pat
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Prasanthi Uppalapati <prasanthi....@gmail.com> wrote:
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Dileep Konatham
Dec 7, 2009, 11:33:26 PM12/7/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Dear Ajit,
I think I should answer the points raised by you before answering
Prasanthi.
- "Had
created. Instead, a Lalu Prasad Yadav would have looted Bihar in a
wholesale manner. So, before you talk about Madhu Koda, my dear
friend, try to understand what policy decisions created people like
Madhu Koda. Read a bit about how much mineral wealth was looted by
individuals/companies since we "liberalized" our economy in 1991. Try
to know about the National Mineral Policy and its relation to the
increasing corruption in Mining Sector across India. Read about what
is happening currently in Obulapuram and why it has happened even
though we have a "large" and "united" Andhra Pradesh.
In India, policticians and bureaucrats always operate on a
'percentage' basis. So, if they siphon off 25% of government funds,
they will continue to do so irrespective of the "size" and "name" of
the state.
-AP Budget outlay this year is say X Crores. Will this budget become
> same
Dear Ajit,
You seem to have a valid point. Let us abolish all states and rule
this country directly from Delhi. That way, we can save a lot of money
isn't it? What according to you is the "optimimum population/area" to
justify the "economics"?
Andhra Pradesh was formed with a population of about 3 Crores. Today
the population of Telangana is more than 3 Crores. About 70% of the
existing Indian states are smaller than Telangana. Please read some
history and current facts before you jump into such discussions.
Formation of Telangana is a valid and just demand of the sons of this
soil.
Regards,
Dileep
-
On Dec 7, 7:29 pm, Ajit Dembla <ajitdem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You have raised Profound Questions - Prasanthi. My take as an indian is as
> follows:
>
> Indians remained slaves due to British Divide and Rule policy. The British
> have gone, but the current day Indian politicians have learnt their art.
>
> Look at Jharkhand, created from Bihar & a Madhu Koda, made 2,000 Crores. Had
> Bihar been a single state, no Madhu Koda would have been created.
> Politicians want separation, so as to divide power. There is no interest to
> develop any state or people. Today even congress leaders representing
> telangana areas are talking of supporting telangana. Why - cant they develop
> those very areas under AP govt rule ? What stops them ?
>
> AP Budget outlay this year is say X Crores. Will this budget become 2X after
> splitting the state ?. Any good student of basic economics will tell you
> that the overheads will double. we will need 2 capitals / 2 legislatures ...
> all state machinery overheads are doubled* for ever*. Revenues remain the
> > birdsofsamefeat...@googlegroups.com<birdsofsamefeathers%2Bunsubsc...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think I should answer the points raised by you before answering
Prasanthi.
- "Had
> Bihar been a single state, no Madhu Koda would have been created."
Yes, had Bihar been a single state, no Madhu Koda would have been
created. Instead, a Lalu Prasad Yadav would have looted Bihar in a
wholesale manner. So, before you talk about Madhu Koda, my dear
friend, try to understand what policy decisions created people like
Madhu Koda. Read a bit about how much mineral wealth was looted by
individuals/companies since we "liberalized" our economy in 1991. Try
to know about the National Mineral Policy and its relation to the
increasing corruption in Mining Sector across India. Read about what
is happening currently in Obulapuram and why it has happened even
though we have a "large" and "united" Andhra Pradesh.
In India, policticians and bureaucrats always operate on a
'percentage' basis. So, if they siphon off 25% of government funds,
they will continue to do so irrespective of the "size" and "name" of
the state.
-AP Budget outlay this year is say X Crores. Will this budget become
2X after
> splitting the state ?. Any good student of basic economics will tell you
> that the overheads will double. we will need 2 capitals / 2 legislatures ...
> all state machinery overheads are doubled* for ever*. Revenues remain the
> splitting the state ?. Any good student of basic economics will tell you
> that the overheads will double. we will need 2 capitals / 2 legislatures ...
> same
Dear Ajit,
You seem to have a valid point. Let us abolish all states and rule
this country directly from Delhi. That way, we can save a lot of money
isn't it? What according to you is the "optimimum population/area" to
justify the "economics"?
Andhra Pradesh was formed with a population of about 3 Crores. Today
the population of Telangana is more than 3 Crores. About 70% of the
existing Indian states are smaller than Telangana. Please read some
history and current facts before you jump into such discussions.
Formation of Telangana is a valid and just demand of the sons of this
soil.
Regards,
Dileep
-
On Dec 7, 7:29 pm, Ajit Dembla <ajitdem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You have raised Profound Questions - Prasanthi. My take as an indian is as
> follows:
>
> Indians remained slaves due to British Divide and Rule policy. The British
> have gone, but the current day Indian politicians have learnt their art.
>
> Look at Jharkhand, created from Bihar & a Madhu Koda, made 2,000 Crores. Had
> Bihar been a single state, no Madhu Koda would have been created.
> Politicians want separation, so as to divide power. There is no interest to
> develop any state or people. Today even congress leaders representing
> telangana areas are talking of supporting telangana. Why - cant they develop
> those very areas under AP govt rule ? What stops them ?
>
> AP Budget outlay this year is say X Crores. Will this budget become 2X after
> splitting the state ?. Any good student of basic economics will tell you
> that the overheads will double. we will need 2 capitals / 2 legislatures ...
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/birdsofsamefeathers?hl=en.
>
> --
> B/regards,
> Ajit Dembla- Hide quoted text -
> >http://groups.google.com/group/birdsofsamefeathers?hl=en.
>
> --
> B/regards,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Giri Kolanupaka
Dec 8, 2009, 12:21:41 AM12/8/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
We should try and avoid pointing to single persons opinions here. Everyone has right to raise their voice, but not to discriminate and point on someone's opinion.
I being a Telangana person and had slightly effected by so called 70% (so claimed) Andhra people working Telanga region, still NOT support Telangana having a separate state.
I strongly support Ajit's points.
I do not see any problem migrating to other states or regions and working there. If the migrated people get dominated, it only proves the inability of the local people to sustain for development.
Are we (Indians) not traveling abroad and taking away jobs of Americans, UKs, Aussies and other countries? How different is Andhra region people coming to Telangana and working here?
My whole point is if people from Telangana region are depraved of something, try to address that root cause, by trying to provide better education, employment opportunities, etc by somehow means, and not by divide and rule, with which we get everything else except development (as Ajit has rightly said in his email).
Giri
--
http://kolanupaka.net
I being a Telangana person and had slightly effected by so called 70% (so claimed) Andhra people working Telanga region, still NOT support Telangana having a separate state.
I strongly support Ajit's points.
I do not see any problem migrating to other states or regions and working there. If the migrated people get dominated, it only proves the inability of the local people to sustain for development.
Are we (Indians) not traveling abroad and taking away jobs of Americans, UKs, Aussies and other countries? How different is Andhra region people coming to Telangana and working here?
My whole point is if people from Telangana region are depraved of something, try to address that root cause, by trying to provide better education, employment opportunities, etc by somehow means, and not by divide and rule, with which we get everything else except development (as Ajit has rightly said in his email).
Giri
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to birdsofsamefeat...@googlegroups.com.
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Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 8, 2009, 2:13:30 AM12/8/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
I would only like to make one point here without getting into any argument. What should happen will happen. No amount of mail exchanges on this forum will change it.
Having discussions and putting forth facts is fine. That will only broaden the thinking. But the comments of "Ajit Dembla" pasted below are unacceptable for me. In any objective discussion, mocking or making such outrageously derogatory statements with little sensitivity towards people is unacceptable for me
"May HE kindly shower some sense on Telangana-ites."
I request SENSIBLE people like "Ajit Dembla" to shower some sense on 4 crore "SENSELESS" telanganaites like me before GOD can shower.
Discussion is fine only when its within the limits of objectivity. I request the initiator of this thread and this group to request people posting in this forum to be objective.
Thanks
Rakesh
SENSELESS Telanganaite
For any objective discussion, mocking or making such outrageously derogatory statements is unacceptable for me
Having discussions and putting forth facts is fine. That will only broaden the thinking. But the comments of "Ajit Dembla" pasted below are unacceptable for me. In any objective discussion, mocking or making such outrageously derogatory statements with little sensitivity towards people is unacceptable for me
"May HE kindly shower some sense on Telangana-ites."
Discussion is fine only when its within the limits of objectivity. I request the initiator of this thread and this group to request people posting in this forum to be objective.
Thanks
Rakesh
SENSELESS Telanganaite
For any objective discussion, mocking or making such outrageously derogatory statements is unacceptable for me
harish peddi
Dec 8, 2009, 2:44:11 AM12/8/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Birds,
The subject is so fascinating that i cant be silent anymore.
As we all agree the Governance Model of any system cannot be static but should evolve in adherence to the growth of the system itself. After all the governance is designed to SERVE the system in the most effective mannaer. Just like what father does to the family. I am sure all of us agree to this basic fundamental concept, no matter we support or oppose separate Telangana movement.
I belong to Telangana Region - but i make sure my analysis does not have any inclination towards any region feelings. I strongly believe birthplace is a random virtue of any individual and nothing...honestly nothing more than that.
When we got separated from the Tamilnadu state, we were not even 1 crore in population and our economy then was not even one hundredth of what it is now. It clearly shows we have grown in every possible parameter which you take in to consideration.
Unfortunately AP as a state largely concentrated on Hyderabad, because of the same - a lot of opportunities were/are created here. Needless to say there was an exodus of people to grab the opportunities from all corners of the state. Here, there are two driving forces for this exodus....one the opportunities are created here and the other one is, all the second rank cities are largely deprived of any new opportunities. Be it Warangal, be it Karimnagar, be it Guntur, be it Vijayawada, be it Vizag, be it Kurnool...almost all the second rank cities are grossly ignored. I am not saying that there is no growth in these cities, but i am saying the growth that these cities had witnessed is petty when compared to the growth that Hyderabad had seen over the same period of time. 'A relative growth not the absolute one'.
If you do a demographic composition analysis of Hyd population, i'm sure it would be an evenly mixed strength of people from each region of the state....i am not even considering the outside AP people here, they have a considerable presence here. After the boom of IT, ITES, Pharma, Bio and Finance industries the exodus got accelerated beyond expectations.
It will not be surprising if i say that the villages are now (In all the 3 regions) left with only old people and illiterate young people. All the educated are being drifted towards the center because of the strong gravity in that direction.
The growth should ideally be holistic and inclusive across the state......but this was never the case. Trust me this was never the case with any of our political parties who rules us so far.
Honestly speaking the movement should ideally come from the other regions saying we need an accessible growth regions in our vicinity. From a holistic view this is supposed to be the case. Those who remembered the galvanic cell experiment in your plus 2 can easily vouch for this argument. Remember one thing, Hyderabad is almost 16 hours away from parts like Srikakulam and Chithoor.
And i am sure all of you agree to my argument if i say that the old age parents are ignored by their kids who have come to Hyderabad for livelihood. I personally witnessed this in several situations.
With Telangana being a separate state, agreeing to the fat it has considerable mass of people and other demographic characteristics, the growth will be much more focused and refined in this region. So is the case with Andhra and Seema.
Coming to the emotions factor - Consider a joint family, the feeling of getting separated should not arise in the first place.....once the feeling is awaken, it would only be a foolish act to strive towards the combined family. No matter what you do, it will only amplify the feeling. You see upward of your family chain, you will certainly appreciate my logic here.
Agreed, some of the politicians are playing a foul game for their immediate gain....but i am sure the partition will certainly help all the regions of Andra including Telangana. A Holistic and Inclusive growth of all the regions. At the end we all only need this, but not the NAME for god sake.
Your view and comments are appreciated.
Thanks
Harish Peddi
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Giri Kolanupaka <kolan...@gmail.com> wrote:
harish reddy
Dec 8, 2009, 4:37:11 AM12/8/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Ajith Dembla,
You could have used your common sense before making any comments like "senseless" words on people here. A discussion should be in the limits of objectivity. Once a word is uttered you can't take it back.
People here have rights to claim for a separate state based on in differences like water,education,jobs etc.
Certainly there are many exploitations happening in Telangana region as happening in other parts of country including rayalaseema and andhra.
As a citizen,am against any disturbance of integrity of our country. But these protests are the system framed in our country. They can't be stopped unless we work on the roots like rules in Constitution and mindset of people. Anyway this violence cannot be solely attributed to the people who are leading this movement( specially students). There are many reasons why a peaceful protests turn in to a violence.(force means to curb movement, involvement of other selfish political forces,etc).Giving a separate state may or may not be solution unless these political people are made to work in a proper way.
Prashanthi,
It's waste of time discussing this issue. Instead of discussing this we can work on the root problems.
Please remove this topic from the thread. Otherwise peace in this group will be disturbed.
Thanks,
Harish
Harish
Be miserable. Or motivate yourself. Whatever has to be done,it's always your choice.
Suresh Adina
Dec 8, 2009, 7:07:40 AM12/8/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
This certainly is a controversial topic and there is no way to stay neutral being a resident of the state of AP. Either you are for separation or you are not. I am obviously opposed to it at the moment, but will try to be as objective as possible.
First of all, it is not a separation, but rather a division of the state. Unfortunately separation has very negative connotations and is being exploited by the politicians like KCR with very unhealthy slogans. It is like a join family building a wall on their premises.
I would like to first counter the argument that division into smaller states is for ease of governance. I do not think that is a problem in our country. Governance in our country is currently very inefficient and ineffective irrespective of the size of the states. So this cannot be argument for the division of the state. Even with 2 states, we would be equally bad or even worse off.
Counter argument that if size is not relevant, then combing all states into one union does not hold good either. While there is no definition of ideal size for a state, good or bad, states have been formed on some basis after Independence - mostly linguistics based. There should be a strong case why the boundaries of the states should be changed - cannot be based on linguistics or religion or any other divisive cause like that. Unfortunately, we have seen so many such movements in different states based purely on divisive characteristics rather than any logical reasoning. From our experience, partition has not helped our country, neighbors or any state within the country. Germany was divided, but only part of it prospered; unification has spread that prosperity.
Population: Yes our population has grown by leaps and bounds since Independence. But that cannot be a basis for division of states. Every state should be divided then. What about the country then? Our national population has more than trebled since Independence. Should we then split this into 3 countries and have 3 governments at the center?
Development: will this really change just because we have smaller states or different states with changed boundaries? Argument is that the region has been long neglected by various leaders. Then why not question those leaders? If CM or the party in power did not take care of it, what is the guarantee that the new set of leaders will do so? I am surprised TDP has come out vocally in support. They were in power for over 9 years and a few years before that. Why did they not do something about it then? Maybe they would still be in power without the nuisance of TRS. And the ministers in the current congress govt? Did their CM and party stop them from taking up any development activities in the region in the past 5+ years? Will the thought process change suddenly just because there is a new state? And ofcourse good old KCR. Poor man was only an MP, a Central Minister and an ally of the government at the center and state. How could he possibly have done anything for the benefit of the region? He was so helpless. NOT!!! And if he did nothing for the region, why do they keep reelecting him and his party in the region? Also, if he is so concerned about the region, forget about developing it, why is not letting anyone else get elected except for his close family members?
Today's politics is not about any ideology. It is about pure muscle and money power. KCR is not getting elected in Karimnagar because of T issue. He will get elected from there no matter. Same with all politicians. Unless that philosophy changes no division or formation of new states will change anything for the common man. Development will be only for the politicians. So let us bring about that change first and not just be arm chair commentators.
In terms of resources, the state overall owns the resources in any part of the state. The state is nothing but the people although we have given that control to the politicians unfortunately. So if we get back the resources into our control, it will be upon us to make the best use of the resources and develop the region where we live. It is not some one else's fault if we are not developed. It is our own. By dividing, we will just let more politicians plunder us and still keep the common person in the same situation.
And how do we define nativity in Telangana? If I am born here, do I become one? Or is it based on longevity of stay here? Apart from being born else where, I grew up in Hyderabad. Does it make it me a Telangana? Else, my daughter is born in Hyderabad. Does it make her one? So should my wife and I move once the split is done and leave our daughter here? What is the logic? It is a lot more complicated when it comes to people's lives than the politicians want us to believe for their selfish reasons.
Finally, putting aside all the logic above, suppose the new state is formed. What is next? What stops another individual like KCR to rake up selfish politics and ask for division of more states and regions? I am sure Tamilnadu can be divided so that DMK and AIDMK can perpetually stay in power. Similarly Karnataka for BJP and Congress, Maharastra for NCP and Congress, WB for Left and Trinamul, Bihar for Lallu and Rabri (purely family affair) etc and the list goes on. Finally Delhi can also be split so that there can be multiple Lt Governers from each party and everyone is happy. Where is the end??
The unfortunate effect of all this is not on politicians, but on us. We suffer. Schools, colleges are closed, work is stopped. Buses are burnt (political parties do not pay for this, we do, through higher taxes and bus fares). Auto drivers fleece us (they will complain about fuel price hike, but have no qualms about daylight robbery when it comes to fare collection in crisis). Food prices go up. Mr KCR is ofcourse provided absolute care for himself at the cost of other patients who need it at a government run institution. Any idea how many poor people from Telangana missed receiving the proper medical care as a result of this? People commit suicide (how come none of the politicians kin commit suicide if they believe in the cause so much?). Travelers are stranded at various place with anxious moments for the near and dear.
I have a challenge to anyone believes in due course of justice and getting what is rightly deserved. All the damage done to public and private property has been recorded by media (most of it atleast). The videos clearly identify the faces of the people who caused the damage. Can you put in your efforts to bring atleast one of those people to justice? If you do, the entire grapevine will move and people will begin to understand the controls behind such agitations. Then we do not need any changes in our geography. The system will change, bringing about the rightful fruits to our doorsteps which we certainly deserve. Agitations will automatically stop.
One request to all: Please do not get emotionally swayed by watching TV and reading papers. Think for yourself. Put down the points for yourself - not notions like suppression, lack of progress etc. If you still believe in the cause, by all means protest. But do not force others into supporting you, through violence.
Cheers
Suresh A
First of all, it is not a separation, but rather a division of the state. Unfortunately separation has very negative connotations and is being exploited by the politicians like KCR with very unhealthy slogans. It is like a join family building a wall on their premises.
I would like to first counter the argument that division into smaller states is for ease of governance. I do not think that is a problem in our country. Governance in our country is currently very inefficient and ineffective irrespective of the size of the states. So this cannot be argument for the division of the state. Even with 2 states, we would be equally bad or even worse off.
Counter argument that if size is not relevant, then combing all states into one union does not hold good either. While there is no definition of ideal size for a state, good or bad, states have been formed on some basis after Independence - mostly linguistics based. There should be a strong case why the boundaries of the states should be changed - cannot be based on linguistics or religion or any other divisive cause like that. Unfortunately, we have seen so many such movements in different states based purely on divisive characteristics rather than any logical reasoning. From our experience, partition has not helped our country, neighbors or any state within the country. Germany was divided, but only part of it prospered; unification has spread that prosperity.
Population: Yes our population has grown by leaps and bounds since Independence. But that cannot be a basis for division of states. Every state should be divided then. What about the country then? Our national population has more than trebled since Independence. Should we then split this into 3 countries and have 3 governments at the center?
Development: will this really change just because we have smaller states or different states with changed boundaries? Argument is that the region has been long neglected by various leaders. Then why not question those leaders? If CM or the party in power did not take care of it, what is the guarantee that the new set of leaders will do so? I am surprised TDP has come out vocally in support. They were in power for over 9 years and a few years before that. Why did they not do something about it then? Maybe they would still be in power without the nuisance of TRS. And the ministers in the current congress govt? Did their CM and party stop them from taking up any development activities in the region in the past 5+ years? Will the thought process change suddenly just because there is a new state? And ofcourse good old KCR. Poor man was only an MP, a Central Minister and an ally of the government at the center and state. How could he possibly have done anything for the benefit of the region? He was so helpless. NOT!!! And if he did nothing for the region, why do they keep reelecting him and his party in the region? Also, if he is so concerned about the region, forget about developing it, why is not letting anyone else get elected except for his close family members?
Today's politics is not about any ideology. It is about pure muscle and money power. KCR is not getting elected in Karimnagar because of T issue. He will get elected from there no matter. Same with all politicians. Unless that philosophy changes no division or formation of new states will change anything for the common man. Development will be only for the politicians. So let us bring about that change first and not just be arm chair commentators.
In terms of resources, the state overall owns the resources in any part of the state. The state is nothing but the people although we have given that control to the politicians unfortunately. So if we get back the resources into our control, it will be upon us to make the best use of the resources and develop the region where we live. It is not some one else's fault if we are not developed. It is our own. By dividing, we will just let more politicians plunder us and still keep the common person in the same situation.
And how do we define nativity in Telangana? If I am born here, do I become one? Or is it based on longevity of stay here? Apart from being born else where, I grew up in Hyderabad. Does it make it me a Telangana? Else, my daughter is born in Hyderabad. Does it make her one? So should my wife and I move once the split is done and leave our daughter here? What is the logic? It is a lot more complicated when it comes to people's lives than the politicians want us to believe for their selfish reasons.
Finally, putting aside all the logic above, suppose the new state is formed. What is next? What stops another individual like KCR to rake up selfish politics and ask for division of more states and regions? I am sure Tamilnadu can be divided so that DMK and AIDMK can perpetually stay in power. Similarly Karnataka for BJP and Congress, Maharastra for NCP and Congress, WB for Left and Trinamul, Bihar for Lallu and Rabri (purely family affair) etc and the list goes on. Finally Delhi can also be split so that there can be multiple Lt Governers from each party and everyone is happy. Where is the end??
The unfortunate effect of all this is not on politicians, but on us. We suffer. Schools, colleges are closed, work is stopped. Buses are burnt (political parties do not pay for this, we do, through higher taxes and bus fares). Auto drivers fleece us (they will complain about fuel price hike, but have no qualms about daylight robbery when it comes to fare collection in crisis). Food prices go up. Mr KCR is ofcourse provided absolute care for himself at the cost of other patients who need it at a government run institution. Any idea how many poor people from Telangana missed receiving the proper medical care as a result of this? People commit suicide (how come none of the politicians kin commit suicide if they believe in the cause so much?). Travelers are stranded at various place with anxious moments for the near and dear.
I have a challenge to anyone believes in due course of justice and getting what is rightly deserved. All the damage done to public and private property has been recorded by media (most of it atleast). The videos clearly identify the faces of the people who caused the damage. Can you put in your efforts to bring atleast one of those people to justice? If you do, the entire grapevine will move and people will begin to understand the controls behind such agitations. Then we do not need any changes in our geography. The system will change, bringing about the rightful fruits to our doorsteps which we certainly deserve. Agitations will automatically stop.
One request to all: Please do not get emotionally swayed by watching TV and reading papers. Think for yourself. Put down the points for yourself - not notions like suppression, lack of progress etc. If you still believe in the cause, by all means protest. But do not force others into supporting you, through violence.
Cheers
Suresh A
Ajit Dembla
Dec 8, 2009, 8:01:30 AM12/8/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Dear Harish / Rakesh
I have the greatest of regards for members of BoSF, because we all are indeed Birds Of a Same Feather. We all want something good to happen.
So first things first - I request for peace.
I also would like to draw your attention that i wanted HIM to give some 'sense' to the 'violent' telanganite's. I did not word it in those terms - but read my entire mail and you will find the context of reference. Please don't isolate one word and read into it. I have never used the word senseless at all. Rather rakesh has inferred from my sentence, that the telanganaite's dont have any sense.
Now whom do you blame !
Guys - lets grow up. Please read the entire email and go after the intent instead of words. Else i dont have anything to say to you.
@ Rakesh : I respect you a lot for all the work you do.... i truly think very few can have the kind of commitment levels you exhibit in the relentless work you do for bhoome / rti and other numerous issues - but this time you did get it wrong. please read my entire post. You can always write to me directly at ajitd...@gmail.com to avoid others our banter...
Please let this be the last post on this topic.
@ All - I know rakesh meant no harm and these things can be tremendously sensitive to deal with. lets all work together to make the whole of india a great place to live in and not just 'pockets'. let US not get diverted from our agenda.
In Peace and with b/regards to all,
Ajit DemblaB/regards,
Ajit Dembla
I have the greatest of regards for members of BoSF, because we all are indeed Birds Of a Same Feather. We all want something good to happen.
So first things first - I request for peace.
I also would like to draw your attention that i wanted HIM to give some 'sense' to the 'violent' telanganite's. I did not word it in those terms - but read my entire mail and you will find the context of reference. Please don't isolate one word and read into it. I have never used the word senseless at all. Rather rakesh has inferred from my sentence, that the telanganaite's dont have any sense.
Now whom do you blame !
Guys - lets grow up. Please read the entire email and go after the intent instead of words. Else i dont have anything to say to you.
@ Rakesh : I respect you a lot for all the work you do.... i truly think very few can have the kind of commitment levels you exhibit in the relentless work you do for bhoome / rti and other numerous issues - but this time you did get it wrong. please read my entire post. You can always write to me directly at ajitd...@gmail.com to avoid others our banter...
Please let this be the last post on this topic.
@ All - I know rakesh meant no harm and these things can be tremendously sensitive to deal with. lets all work together to make the whole of india a great place to live in and not just 'pockets'. let US not get diverted from our agenda.
In Peace and with b/regards to all,
Ajit Dembla
Ajit Dembla
Ajit Dembla
Dec 8, 2009, 8:59:34 AM12/8/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Dear Dileep,
Misgovernance is a problem. I gave madhu koda reference to highlight how creation of a separate state only provided more opportunity for the political class to expolit. I dont like or hate either madhu koda or lalu prasad yadav.
There are enough states - read Biju patnaik in orissa, where excellent work is happening. I was surprised to know the extent of successful e-governance projects happening there. So there is hope. But it needs inspiring leaders. Chandrababu naidu changed the face of hyderabad and made it a destination for global companies, when he was in power. I dont know or care whether he is from telangana or rayalseema or andhra... but he did good. maybe he did not do good for other sectors and the people did not vote him in again.
I agree with you that if there is a bigger state and corruption, result will only be more corruption and no development.
The answer therefore is accountability!. We need to have more active citizens holding the government responsible. Thats exactly what I asked in my post - why cant we hold the current MP's / MLA's responsible for lack of devlopment in United Andhra ? Splitting a state will not solve the problem. Why cant they create more opportunities / provide more education / invite more industry into telangana areas and make it even more successful than the other parts of AP.
Gujarat has pulled away into surat / vapi / baroda / ahmedabad all industries that used to be based in maharashtra, strategically over last 10 years. I know, as I have been there. And all Narendra modi had to do, was to provide an investor friendly framework of policies, as against a belligerent ' reservations for local population ' stance of then ruling neighbour Shiv Sena. Result - Microsoft moved into hyderabad instead of mumbai, which was their first choice. And today Hyderabad is miles ahead of mumbai in IT. So please note - we need to have inclusive policies. What MNS is doing in maharashtra has only goonda support. The common person wants peace, development and growth. India belongs to indians. Politicians want to break india into vote-banks on lines of language, caste, creed, region, community - name it....and it becomes an excuse. I submit, we should not fall prey to their machinations.
b/reg
Ajit
--
B/regards,
Ajit Dembla
Misgovernance is a problem. I gave madhu koda reference to highlight how creation of a separate state only provided more opportunity for the political class to expolit. I dont like or hate either madhu koda or lalu prasad yadav.
There are enough states - read Biju patnaik in orissa, where excellent work is happening. I was surprised to know the extent of successful e-governance projects happening there. So there is hope. But it needs inspiring leaders. Chandrababu naidu changed the face of hyderabad and made it a destination for global companies, when he was in power. I dont know or care whether he is from telangana or rayalseema or andhra... but he did good. maybe he did not do good for other sectors and the people did not vote him in again.
I agree with you that if there is a bigger state and corruption, result will only be more corruption and no development.
The answer therefore is accountability!. We need to have more active citizens holding the government responsible. Thats exactly what I asked in my post - why cant we hold the current MP's / MLA's responsible for lack of devlopment in United Andhra ? Splitting a state will not solve the problem. Why cant they create more opportunities / provide more education / invite more industry into telangana areas and make it even more successful than the other parts of AP.
Gujarat has pulled away into surat / vapi / baroda / ahmedabad all industries that used to be based in maharashtra, strategically over last 10 years. I know, as I have been there. And all Narendra modi had to do, was to provide an investor friendly framework of policies, as against a belligerent ' reservations for local population ' stance of then ruling neighbour Shiv Sena. Result - Microsoft moved into hyderabad instead of mumbai, which was their first choice. And today Hyderabad is miles ahead of mumbai in IT. So please note - we need to have inclusive policies. What MNS is doing in maharashtra has only goonda support. The common person wants peace, development and growth. India belongs to indians. Politicians want to break india into vote-banks on lines of language, caste, creed, region, community - name it....and it becomes an excuse. I submit, we should not fall prey to their machinations.
b/reg
Ajit
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Dileep Konatham <konatha...@gmail.com> wrote:
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to birdsofsamefeat...@googlegroups.com.
--
B/regards,
Ajit Dembla
Prasanthi Uppalapati
Dec 8, 2009, 11:59:20 AM12/8/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Friends,
I am utterly disappointed by the way some of us are responding to mails. I didn't expect.
Honestly I didn't write this mail or triggered the discussion for sensation or heated arguments or to hurt the sentiments of some of us. I completely agree and believe that we can never be neutral on issues that are concerned to us. That is precisely the reason why I sent the mail. I do not want to be politically correct or take to popular mandate or remain on the wall observing both sides. I want to take a stand, form an opinion.
Definitely no one can influence or convince the strong feelings which we developed over years on different issues. Discussion is only to learn and a sincere trial to understand others point of views. Believe it or not, I have been participating in the discussions trying to learn. I may not agree but that does not mean I use harsh words or point fingers. I can gladly agree to disagree. Just try to see if others have a point, if they have and if we are convinced, let us take it. Otherwise our resolve would be much stronger.
This has been an issue for so many years and being ignited time and again, I sincerely wanted to know the opinion of our members in this regard. I want to understand this issue with a completely open mind without any prejudices. That is why I requested for URLs without browsing. I thought people who know about the issue much or who have been following it would know where one can get authentic information.
Why are we taking names? Why are we attacking individuals? This way there would not be any scope for discussion. I do not think that anyone would be under slightest of illusion that the discussion here can influence the policies or decisions of the govt. In fact, no forum can claim so. It is only Assemblies and Parliament which can make policies or take decisions.
If every topic becomes a hot one for arguments, then there can never be a discussion in this forum. End of all learning. Why it should be so?
I sincerely request everyone in this forum to give others a benefit of doubt if not trust.
Thank you.
shiv@infosys
Dec 8, 2009, 1:46:39 PM12/8/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Dear All,
It is very tough for people to accept anything related to T-factor in
these conditions. Even where I work, the topic had come up and within
30 minutes turned into a heated debate and was finally HR had to
intervene. :)
To say that we are all Indians and one would make sense at macro
level, but such macro thoughts will be present only when we are stable
at micro level. Before I go further let me make my stand clear and it
has nothing to do with ITMD, it is my personal opinion. I support
Telangana formation. Agreed that I am from Vizag and do not feel
emotionally about Telangana, but I do feel emotionally for India. What
is happening now is not for the good. Every day my company is closed
unexpectedly, we loose revenue in crores. Multiply that to the number
of companies we have in Hyderabad alone. During these protests whether
genuine or fabricated who bears the brunt. The economy, the buses
(from our tax), the commercial elements and the list goes on.
People question me that if T-factor is genuine then why did TRS not
win significantly in last assembly elections. I do not have the answer
to that but this does not dilute my stand. Once a doubt creeps in mind
in any relationship you can try as hard to mend but it will get to
break some day down the line. In our lives we make lots of choices,
most of them we think we know the result, we think we know. Most of
the times it turns out the other way round but so what, we own it. If
we spend too much time contemplating on whether this choice is fair
and correct, we will never make one, and 30+ years is a big enough
time for contemplation.
I am fine with Telangana become worse than what it is now, at least I
will have myself to blame and not die thinking that had we got
separated things would have been different. I am ready to own the
consequences of my decision. Many of my friends were talking about we
not getting the bigger picture. Let me assure everyone here that
Teleganites will not become less Indians after the state formation. In
fact we may become more Indians since our micro levels would be
stable. At least we will be the architects of our future, bright or
otherwise.
During the separation from TN, had AP thought that Madras is rich and
we will starve, AP would never have existed in the first place. There
was no concrete separation plan in place too. Now at least we
telanganites are giving allowance of 2-3 years of process time for
partition. All we need is an assurance that we will be given a
separate state. My native friends do complain that I suffer from MPD,
else there is no other logical way to explain my inclination towards
Telangana is what they say. :)
No regrets, I have my loyalties firmly at place. I am an Indian first
and then anything else. Tomorrow if I want to settle in JnK no one can
intimidate me into re-consider my decision. Yes, thats the level of
insanity to which I love my country. Everything comes second. And may
be I say this because my micro levels are stable, because my family is
secure. Next the colony where I live has all the basic facilities. My
native Vizag will develop whether or not Telangana is formed. These
are satisfied. Hyderabad where I currently reside is a happening city.
I am a member of wonderful groups like ITMD, BOSF, APEC, etc. It is
after this level that I have problem. All is not well in Hyderabad and
places around it. Thinks have to be stabilized. This is the robotic
way in which I think.
Even in an educated forum like my company's where supposedly educated
people participate in discussions, someone posted, Andhra people, you
dont need to fear and ended that line with a sarcastic smiley. All I
can say is that at my personal level, I am already dead for more than
an year now on Nov 26, 2008. My actual death may only be a formality.
The post has already become too long and I can go on writing but I
would end with what Prashanti started with, Partition may happen if it
is destined to, but lets not do it in a violent way. We are among the
better states in India, lets demonstrate our grace and dignity and
give respect to our education. It need not always be a bitter
experience. Borders never separate hearts. :)
Chill till next time.
On Dec 8, 9:59 pm, Prasanthi Uppalapati
It is very tough for people to accept anything related to T-factor in
these conditions. Even where I work, the topic had come up and within
30 minutes turned into a heated debate and was finally HR had to
intervene. :)
To say that we are all Indians and one would make sense at macro
level, but such macro thoughts will be present only when we are stable
at micro level. Before I go further let me make my stand clear and it
has nothing to do with ITMD, it is my personal opinion. I support
Telangana formation. Agreed that I am from Vizag and do not feel
emotionally about Telangana, but I do feel emotionally for India. What
is happening now is not for the good. Every day my company is closed
unexpectedly, we loose revenue in crores. Multiply that to the number
of companies we have in Hyderabad alone. During these protests whether
genuine or fabricated who bears the brunt. The economy, the buses
(from our tax), the commercial elements and the list goes on.
People question me that if T-factor is genuine then why did TRS not
win significantly in last assembly elections. I do not have the answer
to that but this does not dilute my stand. Once a doubt creeps in mind
in any relationship you can try as hard to mend but it will get to
break some day down the line. In our lives we make lots of choices,
most of them we think we know the result, we think we know. Most of
the times it turns out the other way round but so what, we own it. If
we spend too much time contemplating on whether this choice is fair
and correct, we will never make one, and 30+ years is a big enough
time for contemplation.
I am fine with Telangana become worse than what it is now, at least I
will have myself to blame and not die thinking that had we got
separated things would have been different. I am ready to own the
consequences of my decision. Many of my friends were talking about we
not getting the bigger picture. Let me assure everyone here that
Teleganites will not become less Indians after the state formation. In
fact we may become more Indians since our micro levels would be
stable. At least we will be the architects of our future, bright or
otherwise.
During the separation from TN, had AP thought that Madras is rich and
we will starve, AP would never have existed in the first place. There
was no concrete separation plan in place too. Now at least we
telanganites are giving allowance of 2-3 years of process time for
partition. All we need is an assurance that we will be given a
separate state. My native friends do complain that I suffer from MPD,
else there is no other logical way to explain my inclination towards
Telangana is what they say. :)
No regrets, I have my loyalties firmly at place. I am an Indian first
and then anything else. Tomorrow if I want to settle in JnK no one can
intimidate me into re-consider my decision. Yes, thats the level of
insanity to which I love my country. Everything comes second. And may
be I say this because my micro levels are stable, because my family is
secure. Next the colony where I live has all the basic facilities. My
native Vizag will develop whether or not Telangana is formed. These
are satisfied. Hyderabad where I currently reside is a happening city.
I am a member of wonderful groups like ITMD, BOSF, APEC, etc. It is
after this level that I have problem. All is not well in Hyderabad and
places around it. Thinks have to be stabilized. This is the robotic
way in which I think.
Even in an educated forum like my company's where supposedly educated
people participate in discussions, someone posted, Andhra people, you
dont need to fear and ended that line with a sarcastic smiley. All I
can say is that at my personal level, I am already dead for more than
an year now on Nov 26, 2008. My actual death may only be a formality.
The post has already become too long and I can go on writing but I
would end with what Prashanti started with, Partition may happen if it
is destined to, but lets not do it in a violent way. We are among the
better states in India, lets demonstrate our grace and dignity and
give respect to our education. It need not always be a bitter
experience. Borders never separate hearts. :)
Chill till next time.
On Dec 8, 9:59 pm, Prasanthi Uppalapati
Komal Rastogi
Dec 8, 2009, 9:17:28 PM12/8/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Just to introduce myself, I am a girl from Lucknow and came to Hyderabad 4 years back. The discussion is really good.
We have a family Father and 5 children A,B,C,D,E
SITUATION 1 ::
Father has Rs 500 , divide it by 5, each gets Rs 100.
One of the 5 (say E's child, say E1, we can call remaining E as E2) feels that it is not doing very good and demands divide it by 6, each gets Rs 83. Who benefits? - the 6th person (E1) ; Who may seem to lose - all the existing 5 (A,B,C,D, E2)
SITUATION 2 ::
Father has Rs 500, divide it by 5. each gets rs 100.
Father has Rs 500, divide it by 5. each gets rs 100.
One of the 5 (E1) is not doing very good. I say 'Dear child, we have an upper cap of Rs 500. We are all a united family. E has everything which A,B,C,D have. You have to just explore A,B,C,D and E and find where you fit best. I assure you that no one will stop you. I will bring better assistance to help you grow. This may not have immediate results but will surely make you learn from the lessons of A,B ,C, D, E2. If today you ask for a separation, tomorrow, A1,A2 ,B1, B2, C1,C2, D1, D2 will be born and this will only trigger DIFFERENCES. Even if you go far from E2 and serve A, then it does not mean that you left your parents. You need to just change your thought and understand that you are serving a similar parent A.
E1 are the Politicians who want that share of Rs 83 which they were never entited for and it is free and who does not like free things ! Here free things are the new position for a CM, the new set of MLAs etc etc
People coming under E1 will feel immediately happy that 'Wow, we got our share'. Feeling happy is obvious because they can see it but to really feel it, it will take ages.
What should bleed the father is that:
1- An everlasting disparity and a difference has been created
2- Immediate needs have been met but the vision of a large happy family is broken
3- A fear that tomorrow new outrages will occur between As, Bs , Cs, Ds and infact even in the new E1s and E2s.
Whats missing is
1- A Strict Father and
2- A Brotherly thought that there is NO lack of opportunities. Opportunities need to be created and there is no stopping if you are talented.
An experienced E2 should guide the remaining E1 and take it in its arms and E1 should have the trust that it is in safe hands. Whats missing today is the TRUST.
I seriously feel sorry when I see India shaping up like this. It is very very sad to see educated people on their sleeves in a simple discussion like this email chain. Did we think even once, while naming people in this email chain, that we are targeting our own family? If someone can just see the larger picture and follow the benefits of a Father's advice, things will be in place.
Whats even worse is that we allow people with selfish interests to rule us and fulfil their needs and we make ourselves believe that they did good to the people under them.
Violence only breeds Violence. Rational Thinking should be of utmost importance. Divisions never give Long term Happiness.
How much I wish that there were no walls !!
Take care.
Komal
IDEO
Dec 8, 2009, 10:28:03 PM12/8/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Hi All,
Quite a topic ha!!
Oh and don't discontinue the topic, discussions are important and
everyone is bound give their personal views. Sometimes we end up
giving personal view to an extent where they are least constructive
but that's not a good enough reason to discontinue the thread.
I haven't yet come to a conclusion on state separation or stay as one.
But I do believe that governance is more effective when concentrated
on smaller regions.
That said, I have been trying to understand this issue from 2005 when
I heard the word "Telangana Movement" for the first time in the movie
"Hazaaron Khwaishein Aisi" - got curious that being a bollywood movie.
From then on I have been asking everyone who speaks about Telangana
Movement of why they support it or why they don't... Believe me,
hardly 2 or 3 have given me answers which made sense... rest, more
than 30 had answers which can be happily ignored. Few answers were as
ridiculous as KCRs nose is big so I hate him and his cause... LOL!!
(felt pity for the ignorance of that person), I am from telangana so I
have to support the cause, I am not from telangana or I believe in
united Andra Pradesh - when I stressed on why, they had no answer...
The point I am trying to make is... most come to a conclusion without
any idea about the issue... and you cannot get offended by the views
of such people other than feeling pity for their ignorance.
When I learned few basic facts about when the movement started etc..,
I started questioning myself... You cannot be intuitive on such a big
issue... you have to understand the issue and when a movement has a
history of 30+ years its time to think!! No movement can go on for 30+
years just keeping the benefit of few, so there has to be a reason
behind all this...
It is very hard to be neutral on such big issue - but after some
research as I said.. from 2005 I moved on from the stage to be united
to neutral and I think I need to see few things first hand to move
onto the next stage be it united or a separate state.
The first person I chose to ask about telangana is my dad - his first
answer was, you wont understand the telangana sentiment as you have
been surrounded by development from the day you were born, you should
live in villages with limited access to education, blha, blha, blha
etc.., to understand this issue... anyways, I forced him to enlighten
me :P ... his answer was - quote "I am emotionally involved with this
topic and I might be biased. If you promise not to come to a
conclusion after hearing me out then I am ready to share." and he gave
his side of the story...
My search still goes on...
Here is an article with quite a bit of facts... I recommend everyone
who is trying to come to a conclusion on this issue to read this
document..
http://www.incredible-dimensions.org/Article10.pdf
(I am using google groups web page to compose this mail and dont see
an option to attach a document... Uploaded it onto my server. It will
stay there only for few days... just in case if you are reading this
article after 25th of December 2009... then the link wont be active.)
Here are couple of videos which might shed some light on this
issue...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7730660376611492753#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7247237671139634776#
The videos might sound biased - Be smart and act intelligently -
derive what is required and discard the rest... don't get emotional.
Want to share one more thing...
I was emotionally moved by the way the police were doing the
lathicharge... esp. when I saw 6 police men surrounded one student
(hardly 20 years of age) and hitting him - I wish I never saw that.
This is the second time I am seeing such inhumanness by our own people
(for god sake, they are our own children) ... first being the
lathicharge by police when the people from coastal area were doing a
peaceful protest against SEZ. I wanted to understand on why would
someone act like this and on their own children, friends,
neighbours.... the answer was the research done by "Lucifer Effect:
Understanding How Good People Turn Evil (Random House, 2008 - The
Stanford Prison Experiment by Dr. Philip G. Zimbardo.)" - I had
skipped this chapter earlier when I read a book but had to read it
yesterday to comfort my mind... and I am at peace now, though it still
hurts a little.
Also, few have commented on those who destructed property in the past
few days... I am not sure if it was done by students or by the goons -
anyways, what I want you all to understand is the mob psychology...
here is a link I can help you with.. http://homepage.mac.com/hsuth/mob/dummies.html
(mob psychology for dummies) - a good article to start with into mob
psychology.
P.S. We all are going to be just another brick in the wall.
Regards,
Santosh
> ...
>
> read more »
Quite a topic ha!!
Oh and don't discontinue the topic, discussions are important and
everyone is bound give their personal views. Sometimes we end up
giving personal view to an extent where they are least constructive
but that's not a good enough reason to discontinue the thread.
I haven't yet come to a conclusion on state separation or stay as one.
But I do believe that governance is more effective when concentrated
on smaller regions.
That said, I have been trying to understand this issue from 2005 when
I heard the word "Telangana Movement" for the first time in the movie
"Hazaaron Khwaishein Aisi" - got curious that being a bollywood movie.
From then on I have been asking everyone who speaks about Telangana
Movement of why they support it or why they don't... Believe me,
hardly 2 or 3 have given me answers which made sense... rest, more
than 30 had answers which can be happily ignored. Few answers were as
ridiculous as KCRs nose is big so I hate him and his cause... LOL!!
(felt pity for the ignorance of that person), I am from telangana so I
have to support the cause, I am not from telangana or I believe in
united Andra Pradesh - when I stressed on why, they had no answer...
The point I am trying to make is... most come to a conclusion without
any idea about the issue... and you cannot get offended by the views
of such people other than feeling pity for their ignorance.
When I learned few basic facts about when the movement started etc..,
I started questioning myself... You cannot be intuitive on such a big
issue... you have to understand the issue and when a movement has a
history of 30+ years its time to think!! No movement can go on for 30+
years just keeping the benefit of few, so there has to be a reason
behind all this...
It is very hard to be neutral on such big issue - but after some
research as I said.. from 2005 I moved on from the stage to be united
to neutral and I think I need to see few things first hand to move
onto the next stage be it united or a separate state.
The first person I chose to ask about telangana is my dad - his first
answer was, you wont understand the telangana sentiment as you have
been surrounded by development from the day you were born, you should
live in villages with limited access to education, blha, blha, blha
etc.., to understand this issue... anyways, I forced him to enlighten
me :P ... his answer was - quote "I am emotionally involved with this
topic and I might be biased. If you promise not to come to a
conclusion after hearing me out then I am ready to share." and he gave
his side of the story...
My search still goes on...
Here is an article with quite a bit of facts... I recommend everyone
who is trying to come to a conclusion on this issue to read this
document..
http://www.incredible-dimensions.org/Article10.pdf
(I am using google groups web page to compose this mail and dont see
an option to attach a document... Uploaded it onto my server. It will
stay there only for few days... just in case if you are reading this
article after 25th of December 2009... then the link wont be active.)
Here are couple of videos which might shed some light on this
issue...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7730660376611492753#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7247237671139634776#
The videos might sound biased - Be smart and act intelligently -
derive what is required and discard the rest... don't get emotional.
Want to share one more thing...
I was emotionally moved by the way the police were doing the
lathicharge... esp. when I saw 6 police men surrounded one student
(hardly 20 years of age) and hitting him - I wish I never saw that.
This is the second time I am seeing such inhumanness by our own people
(for god sake, they are our own children) ... first being the
lathicharge by police when the people from coastal area were doing a
peaceful protest against SEZ. I wanted to understand on why would
someone act like this and on their own children, friends,
neighbours.... the answer was the research done by "Lucifer Effect:
Understanding How Good People Turn Evil (Random House, 2008 - The
Stanford Prison Experiment by Dr. Philip G. Zimbardo.)" - I had
skipped this chapter earlier when I read a book but had to read it
yesterday to comfort my mind... and I am at peace now, though it still
hurts a little.
Also, few have commented on those who destructed property in the past
few days... I am not sure if it was done by students or by the goons -
anyways, what I want you all to understand is the mob psychology...
here is a link I can help you with.. http://homepage.mac.com/hsuth/mob/dummies.html
(mob psychology for dummies) - a good article to start with into mob
psychology.
P.S. We all are going to be just another brick in the wall.
Regards,
Santosh
>
> read more »
Sai Bhaskar
Dec 9, 2009, 1:21:45 AM12/9/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Dear Prasanthi and All,
It is good that we are discussing this topic. For a poor person
poverty is the disease. Poor people are everywhere and who are of main
concern to one and all. Geographically the inter-state borders and
inter district borders has maximum poverty in all aspects of
development indicators. There should be special programs for such
places. Say, many government officials rarely attend and serve the
people in such pockets, and most often they are called punishment
posts (?) for them. We don't have poverty eradication action plans
based on the data available, at least we could use our census data for
plans and actions. There should be some basis for allocation of funds.
We do have Projects, programmes and vision documents. In addition to
the climate change and all the development programs Ananthapur is the
desert and Mahabubnagar would soon be declared as a desert. In spite
of so much development in the State, Telugu people are spread all over
India and the world due to push and pull migrations. We don't have a
Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper (PRSP), not that some one is
demanding, we could have it in some other form, but it is most
essential. I was one of the members to work on Draft Poverty
Eradication Action Plan in 2003. Yes, things have changed a lot since
then. There could be debate on choosing the indicators and there are
no emotions and sentiments in this document. Most important thing in
understanding the indicators is to distinguish Aggregate and
Disaggregate data.
http://www.slideshare.net/saibhaskar/poverty-eradication-action-plan-andhra-pradesh-2003-draft
Dr. N. Sai Bhaskar Reddy
On Dec 8, 12:04 am, Prasanthi Uppalapati
It is good that we are discussing this topic. For a poor person
poverty is the disease. Poor people are everywhere and who are of main
concern to one and all. Geographically the inter-state borders and
inter district borders has maximum poverty in all aspects of
development indicators. There should be special programs for such
places. Say, many government officials rarely attend and serve the
people in such pockets, and most often they are called punishment
posts (?) for them. We don't have poverty eradication action plans
based on the data available, at least we could use our census data for
plans and actions. There should be some basis for allocation of funds.
We do have Projects, programmes and vision documents. In addition to
the climate change and all the development programs Ananthapur is the
desert and Mahabubnagar would soon be declared as a desert. In spite
of so much development in the State, Telugu people are spread all over
India and the world due to push and pull migrations. We don't have a
Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper (PRSP), not that some one is
demanding, we could have it in some other form, but it is most
essential. I was one of the members to work on Draft Poverty
Eradication Action Plan in 2003. Yes, things have changed a lot since
then. There could be debate on choosing the indicators and there are
no emotions and sentiments in this document. Most important thing in
understanding the indicators is to distinguish Aggregate and
Disaggregate data.
http://www.slideshare.net/saibhaskar/poverty-eradication-action-plan-andhra-pradesh-2003-draft
Dr. N. Sai Bhaskar Reddy
On Dec 8, 12:04 am, Prasanthi Uppalapati
harish reddy
Dec 9, 2009, 3:44:59 AM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Few Facts behind the demand for a seperate state:
Not sure how many really think of why the demand for separate state has been there for such a long time.The 2 major reasons why the demand has been pending for so many years is WATER AND HYDERABAD. People around the state have earned and invested in and around Hyderabad so there is a concerns about the safety of the investment if the state is separated while both the major rivers in our state flow mostly through Telangana. Below are some facts that are few reasons for the demand.
a. There are 10 districts in Telangana, 9 in Andhra and 4 in Rayalaseema. Out of these 7 districts in Telangana, 3 in Andhra and 1 in Rayalaseema are considered severely backward districts which means 70% of districts in Telangana are backward while in Andhra it is 35% and in Rayalaseema it is 25%. Apart from these there are some areas in all parts of the state which are also backward.
b. 45% of the state income comes from Telangana region. When it comes to utilization of funds, the share of Telangana is only 28%.
c. Normally canals are dug to supply water to the crops from rivers for cultivation. The amount of land cultivated through canals in just Guntur district is more than the land cultivated with canals in entire Telangana region.
d. Nagarjuna sagar dam is built in Nalgonda district which is in Telangana but majority of the water from the dam is used for Krishna and Guntur district. The original dam was supposed to be build much ahead of its present location but the location was changed so that it falls in the Telangana region. Due to the construction of the dam several hectares of Lime stone mines vanished as part of the dam back waters. Everyone know that lime stone is used for producing cement. Even the natural resources were not allowed to remain.
e. Fluorinated water problem is only in Nalgonda district which has not been resolved since decades.
f. Two major rivers Krishna and Tungabhadra enter the state of AP in the district of Mahaboobnagar(the biggest district in Telangana) but the district always remains the worst draught hit areas along with Anantapur because there is no project and process with which the water can be utilized. The plans for utilization has been pending for decades.
g. RDS (Rajolibanda Diversion Scheme) is build in Mahaboobnagar to provide water to 85000 hectares of land in the district. The leaders of Rayalaseems blasted the gates of RDS and water is supplied to KC (Kurnool-Cudapah) canal while only remaining water, if any, is supplied to the lands in Mahaboobnagar.
h. 3 TMC of water from Gandipet is sufficient to supply drinking water to our city. Every year 1700 TMC of water is wasted and is flown into Bay of Bengal from river Godavari. Starting from Nizambad to Bay of Bengal there is no project allowed to build on Godavari. If it is built leaders in Godavari districts fear that the fertile lands in the area may fall short of water. If the Godavari water is utilized properly, there will be no scarcity for food grains in our state.
i. In Telangana regions, only few areas cultivate one crop a year and very rarely two crops a year while most of the land doesn’t even cultivate single crop. In both the Godavari districts, Krishna and Guntur district, two crops a year is common and there are times where even 3 crops a year are cultivated. The only reason is WATER.
j. Government issue G.O.’s for implicating its decisions. G.O number 610 is the longest non implicated G.O in the history of AP. The G.O was issued in 1986 by late NTR who was then the CM of AP, which is not yet implicated. The G.O speaks about the share of Telangana employees in Government jobs in Telangana region.
k. 33% of the population in Mahaboobnagar district have left the district for livelihood to different parts of the state due to draught and majority of them are working as daily labour. No other district has so many people who fled the home place due to lack of livelihood and working as daily labour.
l. There are 25 plus government degree colleges in Krishna, Kadapa and Guntur district while there is not even a single government degree college in Ranga Reddy district.
m. Dairy development corporation of AP purchases milk from farmers across the state for distribution. For the same milk, in Andhra, the government pay Rs. 24 to the farmers and in Telangana they pay Rs. 22 per litre.
n. In between 2005-2008 government sold lands worth Rs. 20000 crores in and around Hyderabad which was utilized to build projects in Rayalaseema and Andhra.
o. Not even a single project was completed in Telangana in the last 5 years while several projects were completed in Andhra and Rayalaseema.
Not just Telangana but areas of Northern Andhra, Prakasham and parts of Rayalaseema are still backward. The state needs to progress as a unit. People are suffering across the state and they need a solution.Nobody wants a split in the state but when people of a region are constantly humiliated and denied of what they should be getting, such demands keep coming. Sentiments arising along with social problems play with lives of innocent people under selfish poltical forces on spree. Unless these differences are erased, sacrifices of great people like Late Potti Sri Ramulu garu will be mere waste and demands for seperate state arises in every nook and corner of country which are quite genuine and legitimate.
Hope these things ends soon and bring peace.
Giri Kolanupaka
Dec 9, 2009, 4:46:35 AM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
All,
I just wanted to share somebody else's opinion on this. He is Mahesh from HOPE. I had a very good interaction with him when we had been to Alampur. He seems to be pretty knowledgeable about rural (especially Mehboobnagar and Telangana) since he hails from that place. He has some facts with him, but I may not completely agree with the solution that he mentioned (for a separate Telangana state).
All his views are in his blog: http://maheshisms.blogspot.com/2009/12/telangaana.html
I suggest you all to take your own judgment on this and not fall up on some of the ideas and opinions taken here in his blog. Thanks.
Giri--
http://kolanupaka.net
I just wanted to share somebody else's opinion on this. He is Mahesh from HOPE. I had a very good interaction with him when we had been to Alampur. He seems to be pretty knowledgeable about rural (especially Mehboobnagar and Telangana) since he hails from that place. He has some facts with him, but I may not completely agree with the solution that he mentioned (for a separate Telangana state).
All his views are in his blog: http://maheshisms.blogspot.com/2009/12/telangaana.html
I suggest you all to take your own judgment on this and not fall up on some of the ideas and opinions taken here in his blog. Thanks.
Giri
http://kolanupaka.net
panasaram krishna
Dec 9, 2009, 8:54:11 AM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hello All
I have read the blog of mahesh. This is what we are discussing .
There is way to put up once points for discussion without hurting other feelings. But he failed to do it. I could not even continue to read further. When he has feelings you put in a convincing way not on the way to attack by wordings.
It is not i could not accept what he said, i could not accept the way of his conveying by commenting the other sector of people ( Andhraites ).
I am from typically Andhra, working in Hyderabad, but whenever i have time and i can do i do my best in helping people in my company, locality ( Irrespective ) of language,caste,region. That motivated me to join the group ITMD. Involved in many voluntary activities which most of them are focussed in Hyderabad, which is not my own place. And had no interest to be in my present IT profession + no interest to be in Hyderabad. I have always dreams to settle in my native village helping the people over there.But till then i wanted to share and extend my support to my country wherever i am.
Present your ideas for convincing not for blaming or criticizing others.
I stand for united ,This is just my opinion.
We are educated and have to think twice before we act or do. If we cannot ,we will forever in the DEVELOPING INDIA and can never be DEVELOPED INDIA.
There might be feelings of telangana ,but
Panasaram007
Kutti Krishnan
Dec 9, 2009, 9:32:35 AM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hmmm!!!!!!!
Am glad to be part of a politically active group, unlike the opportunists galore outside. This is very much required at this point in time. We all must have a clear political stand on any issue and thats proven here!
Cheers
Krishnan
Krishnan
"Dreams...Sleep with it, wakeup with it and live with it..."
[M: 091-9010557150 / 9963528006]
harish reddy
Dec 9, 2009, 11:31:23 AM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
I aprreciate krishna for his valuable service through ITMD.
Coming to this topic.
I have gone through Mahesh blog. He is a student from Osmania in general studies. He hails from palamoor of mahboobnagar district where 10 lakh people migrated for daily wages to mumbai.He shared his ideas in his blog in a clear manner why a separate state is required. He used a harsh kind of words but true. Some where some words must be used in the blog which cannot be liked by some others.With his own experiences in life he must have shared his ideas in his blog.He criticized selfish people(politicians) from both regions andhraites and telangana. He equally criticized both sides.
There are lot of things involved for separation of a state.Separation of state demand(whether it is Jai -telangana from 1960's or Jai- Andhra from 1970's) is beyond our understanding. Many students have died fighting for these causes.Nobody wants a split in the state but when people of a region are constantly humiliated and denied of what they should be getting, such demands keep coming. That's why these demands are arising.As i earlier mentioned it is waste of time of discussing. Unless these social problems are not removed demands arise which are quite genuine and legitimate.
This discussion want serve any purpose. It will create a different kind of opinions on people like krishna had on Mahesh.
Every body have there own opinions. In a sensitive matters like separation of state we should be careful not to bring in to our service forums.
Later we have to meet each other at some point of time in some event. I believe bosf is a service forum and is an opportunity to meet true human beings who are dedicating there time towards service. This group is to share and help each other teams and work for the benefit of mankind.People from both regions are involved in this group. Unnecessary misunderstanding/opinion should not be arised.
May be this topic is triggered with some intention and result is coming in another manner.I sincerely request this group moderator to remove this topic. Need not to stay neutral,refer back to history and current social injustice happening in many parts of country- why this kind of movements are occurring. And try to work on the roots(I believe some are doing this).
Sorry to say this,as i could not digest a response from Krishna had on Mahesh(I am not bothered who is right or wrong as none is perfect in this world).
And both are equally contributing to the society. I would like to see a good opinion on each other. As i a have a great respect on any individual who works for society.In a service group,it is better if we stay away from discussions like region,religion and caste.Later we have to see these kind of opinions on each other.
Please please remove this discussion.I hope at least few people understand my intention and stay away from debating on this issue. I am not sure whether this request will be considered. Rest of people your wish keep continuing if you cannot understand my intention and say we can't stay neutral being a citizen of this state or country.
Bottom line is -> I am asking to keep these kind of discussions from our forum as i don't want to see any kind of different opinions on each other.
Regards,
Harish
SAHASRA Foundation
http://sahasraa.webs.com
--
Coming to this topic.
I have gone through Mahesh blog. He is a student from Osmania in general studies. He hails from palamoor of mahboobnagar district where 10 lakh people migrated for daily wages to mumbai.He shared his ideas in his blog in a clear manner why a separate state is required. He used a harsh kind of words but true. Some where some words must be used in the blog which cannot be liked by some others.With his own experiences in life he must have shared his ideas in his blog.He criticized selfish people(politicians) from both regions andhraites and telangana. He equally criticized both sides.
There are lot of things involved for separation of a state.Separation of state demand(whether it is Jai -telangana from 1960's or Jai- Andhra from 1970's) is beyond our understanding. Many students have died fighting for these causes.Nobody wants a split in the state but when people of a region are constantly humiliated and denied of what they should be getting, such demands keep coming. That's why these demands are arising.As i earlier mentioned it is waste of time of discussing. Unless these social problems are not removed demands arise which are quite genuine and legitimate.
This discussion want serve any purpose. It will create a different kind of opinions on people like krishna had on Mahesh.
Every body have there own opinions. In a sensitive matters like separation of state we should be careful not to bring in to our service forums.
Later we have to meet each other at some point of time in some event. I believe bosf is a service forum and is an opportunity to meet true human beings who are dedicating there time towards service. This group is to share and help each other teams and work for the benefit of mankind.People from both regions are involved in this group. Unnecessary misunderstanding/opinion should not be arised.
May be this topic is triggered with some intention and result is coming in another manner.I sincerely request this group moderator to remove this topic. Need not to stay neutral,refer back to history and current social injustice happening in many parts of country- why this kind of movements are occurring. And try to work on the roots(I believe some are doing this).
Sorry to say this,as i could not digest a response from Krishna had on Mahesh(I am not bothered who is right or wrong as none is perfect in this world).
And both are equally contributing to the society. I would like to see a good opinion on each other. As i a have a great respect on any individual who works for society.In a service group,it is better if we stay away from discussions like region,religion and caste.Later we have to see these kind of opinions on each other.
Please please remove this discussion.I hope at least few people understand my intention and stay away from debating on this issue. I am not sure whether this request will be considered. Rest of people your wish keep continuing if you cannot understand my intention and say we can't stay neutral being a citizen of this state or country.
Bottom line is -> I am asking to keep these kind of discussions from our forum as i don't want to see any kind of different opinions on each other.
Regards,
Harish
SAHASRA Foundation
http://sahasraa.webs.com
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 7:24 PM, panasaram krishna <panasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello AllI have read the blog of mahesh. This is what we are discussing .There is way to put up once points for discussion without hurting other feelings. But he failed to do it. I could not even continue to read further. When he has feelings you put in a convincing way not on the way to attack by wordings.It is not i could not accept what he said, i could not accept the way of his conveying by commenting the other sector of people ( Andhraites ).
I am from typically Andhra, working in Hyderabad, but whenever i have time and i can do i do my best in helping people in my company, locality(Irrespective ) of language,caste,region. That motivated me to join the group ITMD. Involved in many voluntary activities which most of them are focussed in Hyderabad, which is not my own place. And had no interest to be in my present IT profession + no interest to be in Hyderabad. I have always dreams to settle in my native village helping the people over there.But till then i wanted to share and extend my support to my country wherever i am.
--
Giri Kolanupaka
Dec 9, 2009, 11:46:25 AM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Harish,
Thank you so much for your concern. I truely believe your concern and I am really sorry if I had caused any of that.
I also think that this should not create any varied opinions and lead to argument. Yes, everybody will have their own opinion and we have to value that.
Anyway, as somebody said in earlier thread of this, there is no point in discussing this. Whatever is going to happen will happen anyways. We do not have any control on it. Let's just stop this and continue on any productive work.
We should also follow Prasanthi's rule of discussion in this forum, or rather any of the forums that we participate. This is good for everyone in general, when we are giving our opinions. Thank you.
Jai Bhaarath!
Regards,
Giri
Thank you so much for your concern. I truely believe your concern and I am really sorry if I had caused any of that.
I also think that this should not create any varied opinions and lead to argument. Yes, everybody will have their own opinion and we have to value that.
Anyway, as somebody said in earlier thread of this, there is no point in discussing this. Whatever is going to happen will happen anyways. We do not have any control on it. Let's just stop this and continue on any productive work.
We should also follow Prasanthi's rule of discussion in this forum, or rather any of the forums that we participate. This is good for everyone in general, when we are giving our opinions. Thank you.
Jai Bhaarath!
Regards,
Giri
Prasanthi Uppalapati
Dec 9, 2009, 1:14:31 PM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Friends,
Discussion can achieve nothing if that is only to win an argument. I have lot of trust on our members that we can discuss to understand all sides of a topic not just two sides.
Just because one has difference of opinion with others and it became evident through discussion does not mean both cannot see eye to eye, shake hands or meet. Everyone are entitled to opinions out of experience, knowledge, background etc., etc., Some may be forceful or emotional in the way they respond and others would oppose and may not like the response rather manner of response. They can express that too.
Just because a topic is too sensitive, we need not refrain from discussion. I reiterate. People who are discussing here are not trying to win arguments but expressing their views and reasons on why they take particular stand or arrive at a decision/conclusion.
Agreed.. this is not a forum which can influence policy decisions. But this is a forum which can help understand issues, look at them from right perspectives or provide an opportunity, scope to develop right perspectives, ways and means to analyze an issue. That is why I mentioned in the guidelines that mere count does not determine or conclude a topic. The discussion is all about learning to look at an issue from all the view points, above and beyond the current scenario.
I like Princess Diana and if some X criticizes her, obviously I do not like it. But that does not stop me to meet him or her. Let us agree to disagree where required.
Region, Religion, Caste etc., are not unparliamentary words. We should never start a discussion with the topics...... "X religion is great or Y religion? Which region has legacy and which does not? Particular caste is superior to other caste?...and so on. These are objectionable topics.
I repeat. I trust our members. I suggest to read your reply twice or thrice before posting. If you think you want to share your views or reasons, share. Otherwise do not. Try to express discomfort in polite manner.
This thread will neither be deleted nor dragged. This is not a tagged one and was not given any prominence. This is not highlighted. This is like any topic in this forum. I am sure all of us understood the importance of conducting ourselves in a discussion. We might have grown a bit, at least an inch, if not mature, about making our points clear without hurting anyone's sentiments or feelings. We might have learnt to express dissent in a way where the other person can really understand where he went wrong and why we condemn. (Unfortunately the word, condemn, lost its power because of politicians. Otherwise we can gladly use 'condemn' I suppose. I condemn this statement or view and this is completely unacceptable etc., )
Whoever can share useful and valuable information can post. There might be many vespas outside to learn but not everyone can have that luxury.
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 9, 2009, 1:22:18 PM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
A Genuine People's Movement can only succeed. Govt of India initiates the process of forming a separate Telangana.
--
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
BHUMI
www.bhumi.in
weblog: http://rakesh-will-do-it.blogspot.com/
+91 9885419012
There are only two options,
Either you 'Follow' or 'Change' the system
I chose the second one!!!!
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Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
BHUMI
www.bhumi.in
weblog: http://rakesh-will-do-it.blogspot.com/
+91 9885419012
There are only two options,
Either you 'Follow' or 'Change' the system
I chose the second one!!!!
panasaram krishna
Dec 9, 2009, 2:11:09 PM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
But the process is more important.
There are many factors which need to be taken mutual understandings ,especailly the Hyderabad point .
Ramana NV
Dec 9, 2009, 2:16:58 PM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hi
Either Seperated or United!
Unless educated people choose politics as a profession, business based politicians will always exploit public wealth.
It is difficult not impossible.
Ramana
I
harish peddi
Dec 9, 2009, 3:59:24 PM12/9/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Agreed and point well taken...but certainly smaller states can bring u
more clear and focused administration....when i say small...it is big
enough to be called a state...Telangana certainly satisfies all the
eligibility factors to be called a state.
Harish Peddi
>>> birdsofsamefeat...@googlegroups.com<birdsofsamefeathers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>>> .
>> .
more clear and focused administration....when i say small...it is big
enough to be called a state...Telangana certainly satisfies all the
eligibility factors to be called a state.
Harish Peddi
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/birdsofsamefeathers?hl=en.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
>> BHUMI
>> www.bhumi.in
>> weblog: http://rakesh-will-do-it.blogspot.com/
>> +91 9885419012
>>
>> There are only two options,
>> Either you 'Follow' or 'Change' the system
>>
>> I chose the second one!!!!
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "birdsofsamefeathers" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> birdsofsamefeat...@googlegroups.com<birdsofsamefeathers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/birdsofsamefeathers?hl=en.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
>> BHUMI
>> www.bhumi.in
>> weblog: http://rakesh-will-do-it.blogspot.com/
>> +91 9885419012
>>
>> There are only two options,
>> Either you 'Follow' or 'Change' the system
>>
>> I chose the second one!!!!
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "birdsofsamefeathers" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> .
Sri
Dec 9, 2009, 11:36:38 PM12/9/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Komal,
That is a wonderful example...I liked your anecdote; and Prasanthi, so
is your note... esp. the example about the water diversion.
I am from Andhra, but I felt that India was ONE Country. I traveled
across the country and almost felt at home everywhere, but it was
mostly because I felt so... and my positive mindedness did not notice
the discrimination people exhibited till it hit me hard. When I was in
Delhi, people were discriminating against people of other regions,
especially the Sardarjis from Punjab, and of course they considered
the south Indians inferior. When a southern politician was made a
central minister, it was something to talk about!! Once I went to
Madras, I had to ask a cop for directions, he listened to me and the
first thing he said was ' Telungu aaa... po po po...' That was one of
the first few times I experienced discrimination. From thence, it has
been discrimination all the way....and of course that's one reason I
wouldn't complain of racism or discrimination in the U.S. Telangana
folks who want to drive away andhraites should not complain about the
protectionism that seemed to have risen in the U.S in the past couple
of years. But, I know these very people who complain about the
protectionism in U.S curse andhraites and bloat with glee whenever KCR
made a political statement / scolds the andhraites. I saw this happen
here.
I heard stories of people here in the U.S who have not done anything
to develop their communities back home, but are supporting this cause
just for their personal gain, either monetarily or politically. I also
wonder why none of these people questioned why KCR could not do
anything all the while he was a Minister, did he point out any
discrimination which was meted out to any schemes he proposed or any
development plans he came up with which were turned down? If he is
considered an able leader, then why is it that he hasn't proven his
'ability' right upto the point of the elections? I am not aware of
any, forgive me if I missed any. This region lacks leadership, in its
own right. I'm not sure there are any true leaders there who will
'magically' develop and transform this region. Every person wants to
make money and forming another state is a very good way to mint money.
What more could a politician ask for...? Instead of holding people
accountable and taking them to task for their inaction while in power,
people are rallying behind them. If the blind lead the blind, both
shall fall into the ditch. At this point, I am neutral, as my
knowledge is limited, but as a lay person I have expressed my opinion.
What is lacking is not support, but leadership. A proper selfless
leader is lacking. How can they form and manage a state with no proper
leadership? Do they have any blue prints for development? Do they have
any plan based on which they seek statehood?
I would definitely go through the links and videos provided by our
other friends here and try to understand how much one region was
responsible for the loss of another region and how it is going to be
transformed.
Also, I cannot understand the cost factor of moving people and any
cross migration involved. I heard of one GO which is asking all state
employees from Andhra region to go back to Andhra...don't know the
implications of this. As an Andhraite, for the first time, I felt
insecure. I have never thought we were different. But listening to the
angry rants of KCR and others scolding Andhra people seemed a bit
extreme. State or no state, the attitude is disgusting. This country
does not belong to anybody's mom or dad. And by the way, the article
quotes Pt.Nehru as favoring separation, but Mahatma Gandhi, never
favored segregationist politics of any kind.
We human beings made this world thrive on division and discrimination.
We say the Western world and the eastern world. In the Eastern world,
we say the Asians and Sub continent Asians. In Subcontinent Asians, we
say, Pakistanis, Indians, and so on..In Indian- North, South, East and
West (Poor state of affairs MNS (sic)), In the South, Andhra,
Tamilnadu and so on..In Andhra Pradesh- Telangana, Rayalaseema,
Andhra. What next? Well...In Andhra it will be : Ours is East
Godavari, yours is West Godavari. In East Godavari, it will be ours is
Rajahmundry, yours is Kakinada. In Kakinada, it will be Mine is
Ramarao Peta, yours is Gandhinagar. In Ramarao peta, it will be Mine
is First Street, yours is second street. In first street, it will be
your house, my house, In your house, it will be First floor, second
floor and other floors, and in each floor, your apartment, my
apartment....and in each apartment, the children start with my
bedroom, your bedroom.... so the problem begins in assigning bedrooms
hehe!!! There is no end to divisions. And believe me, I did see first
floor guys Vs Ground Floor Guys kinda divisions in apartment
complexes...where the first floor guys complain of water scarcity!!!
Finally, we all should not forget that there are many underdeveloped
states, and many regions within each state which are underdeveloped.
So logically speaking, if Regions within states should ask for
separate statehood, underdeveloped states should ask for Independence
(Like it is seen in some parts of the world currently).
I did observe that many folks tend to get very emotional about this
issue and think that those who are against it don't know suffering of
any kind. Suffering and pain are universal, it is how we handle and
come up with solutions is what matters. This same set of politicians
who seemingly kept shut the past 30 years will continue to do so in
future.
State or no state, I don't feel the economics of this are feasible for
a flood ridden state at this point of time. I'm also wondering, would
our charitable acts be focused on Telangana or Andhra?
Personally, I would have been much happier if there was no violence
involved.
svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah
gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu
Sri Surya
> ...
>
> read more »
That is a wonderful example...I liked your anecdote; and Prasanthi, so
is your note... esp. the example about the water diversion.
I am from Andhra, but I felt that India was ONE Country. I traveled
across the country and almost felt at home everywhere, but it was
mostly because I felt so... and my positive mindedness did not notice
the discrimination people exhibited till it hit me hard. When I was in
Delhi, people were discriminating against people of other regions,
especially the Sardarjis from Punjab, and of course they considered
the south Indians inferior. When a southern politician was made a
central minister, it was something to talk about!! Once I went to
Madras, I had to ask a cop for directions, he listened to me and the
first thing he said was ' Telungu aaa... po po po...' That was one of
the first few times I experienced discrimination. From thence, it has
been discrimination all the way....and of course that's one reason I
wouldn't complain of racism or discrimination in the U.S. Telangana
folks who want to drive away andhraites should not complain about the
protectionism that seemed to have risen in the U.S in the past couple
of years. But, I know these very people who complain about the
protectionism in U.S curse andhraites and bloat with glee whenever KCR
made a political statement / scolds the andhraites. I saw this happen
here.
I heard stories of people here in the U.S who have not done anything
to develop their communities back home, but are supporting this cause
just for their personal gain, either monetarily or politically. I also
wonder why none of these people questioned why KCR could not do
anything all the while he was a Minister, did he point out any
discrimination which was meted out to any schemes he proposed or any
development plans he came up with which were turned down? If he is
considered an able leader, then why is it that he hasn't proven his
'ability' right upto the point of the elections? I am not aware of
any, forgive me if I missed any. This region lacks leadership, in its
own right. I'm not sure there are any true leaders there who will
'magically' develop and transform this region. Every person wants to
make money and forming another state is a very good way to mint money.
What more could a politician ask for...? Instead of holding people
accountable and taking them to task for their inaction while in power,
people are rallying behind them. If the blind lead the blind, both
shall fall into the ditch. At this point, I am neutral, as my
knowledge is limited, but as a lay person I have expressed my opinion.
What is lacking is not support, but leadership. A proper selfless
leader is lacking. How can they form and manage a state with no proper
leadership? Do they have any blue prints for development? Do they have
any plan based on which they seek statehood?
I would definitely go through the links and videos provided by our
other friends here and try to understand how much one region was
responsible for the loss of another region and how it is going to be
transformed.
Also, I cannot understand the cost factor of moving people and any
cross migration involved. I heard of one GO which is asking all state
employees from Andhra region to go back to Andhra...don't know the
implications of this. As an Andhraite, for the first time, I felt
insecure. I have never thought we were different. But listening to the
angry rants of KCR and others scolding Andhra people seemed a bit
extreme. State or no state, the attitude is disgusting. This country
does not belong to anybody's mom or dad. And by the way, the article
quotes Pt.Nehru as favoring separation, but Mahatma Gandhi, never
favored segregationist politics of any kind.
We human beings made this world thrive on division and discrimination.
We say the Western world and the eastern world. In the Eastern world,
we say the Asians and Sub continent Asians. In Subcontinent Asians, we
say, Pakistanis, Indians, and so on..In Indian- North, South, East and
West (Poor state of affairs MNS (sic)), In the South, Andhra,
Tamilnadu and so on..In Andhra Pradesh- Telangana, Rayalaseema,
Andhra. What next? Well...In Andhra it will be : Ours is East
Godavari, yours is West Godavari. In East Godavari, it will be ours is
Rajahmundry, yours is Kakinada. In Kakinada, it will be Mine is
Ramarao Peta, yours is Gandhinagar. In Ramarao peta, it will be Mine
is First Street, yours is second street. In first street, it will be
your house, my house, In your house, it will be First floor, second
floor and other floors, and in each floor, your apartment, my
apartment....and in each apartment, the children start with my
bedroom, your bedroom.... so the problem begins in assigning bedrooms
hehe!!! There is no end to divisions. And believe me, I did see first
floor guys Vs Ground Floor Guys kinda divisions in apartment
complexes...where the first floor guys complain of water scarcity!!!
Finally, we all should not forget that there are many underdeveloped
states, and many regions within each state which are underdeveloped.
So logically speaking, if Regions within states should ask for
separate statehood, underdeveloped states should ask for Independence
(Like it is seen in some parts of the world currently).
I did observe that many folks tend to get very emotional about this
issue and think that those who are against it don't know suffering of
any kind. Suffering and pain are universal, it is how we handle and
come up with solutions is what matters. This same set of politicians
who seemingly kept shut the past 30 years will continue to do so in
future.
State or no state, I don't feel the economics of this are feasible for
a flood ridden state at this point of time. I'm also wondering, would
our charitable acts be focused on Telangana or Andhra?
Personally, I would have been much happier if there was no violence
involved.
svasti prajabhyam paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah
gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu
Sri Surya
>
> read more »
Ajit Dembla
Dec 10, 2009, 12:07:59 AM12/10/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Amazing Response Sri. Sad to know about you having to face discrimination. I have faced discrimination, when I was visiting germany two months after 9/11. I was denied a room to stay because around that time, two asians (pakistani's) were apprehended from hamburg. I still remember the humiliation, anger and helplessness I felt. But i think such people are the minority and the resolution is education.
I would beg to differ with the smaller states, better administration argument. I think its the maturity of leadership primarily and a whole lot of factors that decides it. Else progress of nations would have depended on their size and US wont have been a superpower. This statement is at best 'logically' correct that a smaller state means more focus. But the moot point really is intention. Today Bihar is still a bigger state, than others, but some of the initiatives being taken by CM Nitish regarding education, if successful will lead to a changed face in 8-10 years.
As anticipated by most of us... Telangana formation was a fore-gone conclusion and the process has started after Home Min. PC announced it yesterday evening.
With all political parties supporting it and the KCR situation, specially rumors floated of him getting into a Coma... the current weak internal congress situation forced them to move towards the inevitable sooner. Tabling the bill and getting it through will also see lot of political action. What happens now.... perhaps a congress split on this issue, which the opposition (read TDP) will definitely use to their advantage.
There might also be a huge agitation (much bigger than formation of telengana), over who
retains, Hyderabad & Secunderabad !!! And a 4-year time-frame coinciding with next legislature elections is another logical development. Hyderabad issue will remain for 4 years and cause investment in this city/region to stop totally - pending its resolution, is a huge risk. And who will win in the process - telangana or andhra ?
Pity... but as all on this forum have been stating, we all can discuss and nothing we say will decide anything. So lets sit back and watch the process....
B/reg,
Ajit
--
B/regards,
Ajit Dembla
I would beg to differ with the smaller states, better administration argument. I think its the maturity of leadership primarily and a whole lot of factors that decides it. Else progress of nations would have depended on their size and US wont have been a superpower. This statement is at best 'logically' correct that a smaller state means more focus. But the moot point really is intention. Today Bihar is still a bigger state, than others, but some of the initiatives being taken by CM Nitish regarding education, if successful will lead to a changed face in 8-10 years.
As anticipated by most of us... Telangana formation was a fore-gone conclusion and the process has started after Home Min. PC announced it yesterday evening.
With all political parties supporting it and the KCR situation, specially rumors floated of him getting into a Coma... the current weak internal congress situation forced them to move towards the inevitable sooner. Tabling the bill and getting it through will also see lot of political action. What happens now.... perhaps a congress split on this issue, which the opposition (read TDP) will definitely use to their advantage.
There might also be a huge agitation (much bigger than formation of telengana), over who
retains, Hyderabad & Secunderabad !!! And a 4-year time-frame coinciding with next legislature elections is another logical development. Hyderabad issue will remain for 4 years and cause investment in this city/region to stop totally - pending its resolution, is a huge risk. And who will win in the process - telangana or andhra ?
Pity... but as all on this forum have been stating, we all can discuss and nothing we say will decide anything. So lets sit back and watch the process....
B/reg,
Ajit
--
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B/regards,
Ajit Dembla
umesh varma
Dec 10, 2009, 12:08:39 AM12/10/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
http://umeshvarmap.blogspot.com/2009/12/telangana-land-of-destiny-or-mirage.html
will keep adding more regularly
Umesh Varma
> >> birdsofsamefeat...@googlegroups.com<birdsofsamefeathers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >> .
> > .
will keep adding more regularly
Umesh Varma
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/birdsofsamefeathers?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
> > BHUMI
> >www.bhumi.in
> > weblog:http://rakesh-will-do-it.blogspot.com/
> > +91 9885419012
>
> > There are only two options,
> > Either you 'Follow' or 'Change' the system
>
> > I chose the second one!!!!
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "birdsofsamefeathers" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > birdsofsamefeat...@googlegroups.com<birdsofsamefeathers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/birdsofsamefeathers?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
> > BHUMI
> >www.bhumi.in
> > weblog:http://rakesh-will-do-it.blogspot.com/
> > +91 9885419012
>
> > There are only two options,
> > Either you 'Follow' or 'Change' the system
>
> > I chose the second one!!!!
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "birdsofsamefeathers" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
harish reddy
Dec 10, 2009, 1:25:14 AM12/10/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Giri garu,
Thank you so much for your understanding. I wish to see no mis-understanding arising from these discussions. One who have experienced the social discrimination form this place may found these opinions unacceptable any may take it to heart. And Vice Versa. It would have been better if the topic was why separate state demands arise. How they can be addressed. This is a suggestion.
Glad to see that Indian govt has recognized Telanagana i.e) it has officially accepted the social discrimination and injustice in sharing of resources,etc. Instead of a state separation if these differences can be removed. Than we can stay together in one state. But this is not possible because of the politicians and selfish bureaucrats. Even after seperation am not sure whether problems can be solved unless system is changed.
Friends here are eager to share and exchange there views. So none can stop them.
Thanks for this wonderful opportunity in sharing my views. Keep going :) :(
Sri
Dec 10, 2009, 4:49:09 AM12/10/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Thanks Ajit. Sorry to hear about your Germany incident...and to think
that it was Hitler a German who engineered the holocaust! But we can't
blame them entirely, there have been incidents of various kinds and
the usual reaction is to generalise. Related to another issue on this
forum I had mentioned about a few incidents which happened. It is an
every day issue. Thankfully, I surround myself with wonderful American
friends who love me and make me feel very comfortable. In fact, they
don't even think that discrimination exists or that I might have faced
any incident. The other day, I literally had a tough argument at a
public forum when another state was discriminating vendors based on
their location. I said they cannot compromise on quality of services
when it comes to merit, they listened to my version and agreed to give
me a level playing field. I wish this kind of a situation will happen
in India. I have worked on Government contracts in Inia and all that
gets done is when any bribe is paid. Nothing moved without a cut for
anyone. And a new state means new projects, new buildings, new lands
grabbed, new citizens lands taken over for road construction etc., and
all these have the ever enticing component for the average government
employee: Bribes. How nice it would be if we make our city into a
state and you becoem the Chief Minister, I become the Minister for
Revenues and so on....
Umesh: I liked your article, it is very well written, will look for
more. However, not all people's movements need be considered right by
default. I am not judging the Telangana movement, as my knowledge and
experience is limited, but by conceding to their demand for a new
state, it is definitely an irony. An irony because the Centre is
admitting that The Governments have not been able to meet the needs of
the region and hence they will be able to now meet their needs by
virtue of statehood. I have a Russian friend who tells me that no one
can be wrong, every person is right for themselves; However, this
beats my mind what is the plan for making Telanga developed ? Do the
people have it? Do their leaders have it? Do the people fighting for
it know how they are going to do it? I know some telangana folks who
are extremely happy about this, but have no idea on how to develop or
what will happen. All they are happy about is that they will get
statehood, and then, they make money because their land values will
increase and also because some of them are connected to Harish, KCR or
some other good for nothing Minister from that region. Very very
unfortunate that many people feel secure and comfortable when they
know a few thugs and goons.
Sri Surya
On Dec 9, 11:07 pm, Ajit Dembla <ajitdem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Amazing Response Sri.* *Sad to know about you having to face
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
that it was Hitler a German who engineered the holocaust! But we can't
blame them entirely, there have been incidents of various kinds and
the usual reaction is to generalise. Related to another issue on this
forum I had mentioned about a few incidents which happened. It is an
every day issue. Thankfully, I surround myself with wonderful American
friends who love me and make me feel very comfortable. In fact, they
don't even think that discrimination exists or that I might have faced
any incident. The other day, I literally had a tough argument at a
public forum when another state was discriminating vendors based on
their location. I said they cannot compromise on quality of services
when it comes to merit, they listened to my version and agreed to give
me a level playing field. I wish this kind of a situation will happen
in India. I have worked on Government contracts in Inia and all that
gets done is when any bribe is paid. Nothing moved without a cut for
anyone. And a new state means new projects, new buildings, new lands
grabbed, new citizens lands taken over for road construction etc., and
all these have the ever enticing component for the average government
employee: Bribes. How nice it would be if we make our city into a
state and you becoem the Chief Minister, I become the Minister for
Revenues and so on....
Umesh: I liked your article, it is very well written, will look for
more. However, not all people's movements need be considered right by
default. I am not judging the Telangana movement, as my knowledge and
experience is limited, but by conceding to their demand for a new
state, it is definitely an irony. An irony because the Centre is
admitting that The Governments have not been able to meet the needs of
the region and hence they will be able to now meet their needs by
virtue of statehood. I have a Russian friend who tells me that no one
can be wrong, every person is right for themselves; However, this
beats my mind what is the plan for making Telanga developed ? Do the
people have it? Do their leaders have it? Do the people fighting for
it know how they are going to do it? I know some telangana folks who
are extremely happy about this, but have no idea on how to develop or
what will happen. All they are happy about is that they will get
statehood, and then, they make money because their land values will
increase and also because some of them are connected to Harish, KCR or
some other good for nothing Minister from that region. Very very
unfortunate that many people feel secure and comfortable when they
know a few thugs and goons.
Sri Surya
On Dec 9, 11:07 pm, Ajit Dembla <ajitdem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Amazing Response Sri.* *Sad to know about you having to face
> discrimination. I have faced discrimination, when I was visiting germany two
> months after 9/11. I was denied a room to stay because around that time, two
> asians (pakistani's) were apprehended from hamburg.* *I still remember the
> months after 9/11. I was denied a room to stay because around that time, two
> humiliation, anger and helplessness I felt. But i think such people are the
> minority and the resolution is education.
>
> I would beg to differ with the smaller states, better administration
> argument. I think its the maturity of leadership primarily and a whole lot
> of factors that decides it. Else progress of nations would have depended on
> their size and US wont have been a superpower. This statement is at best
> 'logically' correct that a smaller state means more focus. But the moot
> point really is *intention*. Today Bihar is still a bigger state, than
> minority and the resolution is education.
>
> I would beg to differ with the smaller states, better administration
> argument. I think its the maturity of leadership primarily and a whole lot
> of factors that decides it. Else progress of nations would have depended on
> their size and US wont have been a superpower. This statement is at best
> 'logically' correct that a smaller state means more focus. But the moot
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Sri
Dec 10, 2009, 4:50:38 AM12/10/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
"I think its the maturity of leadership primarily and a whole lot
of factors that decides it. Else progress of nations would have
depended on
their size and US wont have been a superpower"
Thats a very nice way of putting it Ajit!!
of factors that decides it. Else progress of nations would have
depended on
their size and US wont have been a superpower"
Sri Surya
On Dec 9, 11:07 pm, Ajit Dembla <ajitdem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Amazing Response Sri.* *Sad to know about you having to face
> discrimination. I have faced discrimination, when I was visiting germany two
> months after 9/11. I was denied a room to stay because around that time, two
> asians (pakistani's) were apprehended from hamburg.* *I still remember the
> months after 9/11. I was denied a room to stay because around that time, two
> humiliation, anger and helplessness I felt. But i think such people are the
> minority and the resolution is education.
>
> I would beg to differ with the smaller states, better administration
> argument. I think its the maturity of leadership primarily and a whole lot
> of factors that decides it. Else progress of nations would have depended on
> their size and US wont have been a superpower. This statement is at best
> 'logically' correct that a smaller state means more focus. But the moot
> point really is *intention*. Today Bihar is still a bigger state, than
> minority and the resolution is education.
>
> I would beg to differ with the smaller states, better administration
> argument. I think its the maturity of leadership primarily and a whole lot
> of factors that decides it. Else progress of nations would have depended on
> their size and US wont have been a superpower. This statement is at best
> 'logically' correct that a smaller state means more focus. But the moot
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Prasanthi Uppalapati
Dec 10, 2009, 12:36:50 PM12/10/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
There would be no thought at all on whether we work for Telangana flood relief or Andhra flood relief. I do not think we will even bother about this question.
Whether we reside in Andhra or Telangana, wherever help is required we try to reach. It only depends on the feasibility. If we stay in Hyderabad, we cannot go till Kakinada or Nellore to help on a project. Place is never a criteria. Our TMAD members in Bangalore are doing good work there, they belong to AP.
I beg to differ with the comparison of having own bed rooms and a separate state. I for one want nuclear family and I want a own bedroom exclusively for myself. But I like to see all of us united. Personal wishes are different. We cannot attribute that to society.
Though the idea of splitting did create discomfort and pain, felt happy that the aspirations of people who want a separate state are going to be fulfilled. A colleague of mine told me this morning that she is feeling very bad and she couldn't digest the separation/divison. I told her that the immediate reaction of others would be like..... you can never understand for being an Andhra person. She reacted rather furiously that she is from Telangana. (Actually I do not know the place from which she hails. I assumed she might be from Andhra region).
I will read all the material that is posted here and received offline too to understand the struggle.
The views expressed by some of us who oppose or who do not like the idea of a separate state are mostly about Leadership. So is this the only reason to oppose? Do we have good leaders (in Andhra region)? If there are leaders who can be appreciated, why should they be concerned and rule only Telangana? Why can't they rule AP?
If SRC is for analyzing the growing needs of states and the scope and feasibility of reorganizing them, on what basis the decision should be taken? Leadership, Resources, Size, Culture, Language, Opportunities, Aspirations of people... or all inclusive? What should that be?
Afternoon when I heard that MLAs and MPs are giving resignations, I was startled. Couldn't believe. I was thinking that the resolution would have been passed by that time as there is no scope for Congress or any political party to drift away from this eventuality. I felt like may be this is what cheating is all about. Again political leaders (can we call them leaders?) ..... political players brought the issue back to square one. Isn't this playing with emotions? Everyone were happy and KCR broke his fast and all of a sudden these developments. If they are not interested to give, they would have said crystal clearly. Why games?
There is no empathy among people as well. Whoever I came across, most of them are against the division of state. The major complaint being Andhra people have properties here and they would be looted and all of us would be asked to leave Hyderabad and from other Telangana regions. Beats me. Are we still in 1947? Why should that happen now? Why is there so much mistrust on our people? Just because there is a demand for separation, there is a difference in feelings as well? Is there such an emotional divide? In such a scenario, this unity is also false unity.
So, on ground, this is not about emotions or togetherness......... it is all about money. (I am only talking about political players not people. Political players from all regions of AP)
I was thinking yesterday after reading that Congress relented. No doubt it is a sad feeling for me (though I neither seriously oppose or support for lack of subject on the topic, the idea of unified AP and all Telugus being one appeals to me more). But dwelt deep like what is the immediate change for me....
a. Living in another state
b. Some of our friends would be from different state. We are no more from same place. (what if? how does it make any difference? we have friends from many countries, why not if we become people from different states?)
c.Do the worst fears of people who oppose the division come true? Would there be violence?
d. What about the IT jobs? Companies move to other places? (If so, the idea of having to leave Hyd pains)
I am here only for work. Initially I was not interested to come to Hyderabad as I was inclined towards Bangalore. But I never tried to move to Bangalore later. I got a chance to meet good people here and I often wonder if I can do this kind of work if I operate from Nellore. I got very much support and encouragement here. I do not say there is no support from my native place, but it is definitely not so vibrant as Hyderabad.
Irrespective of whether I like the idea of a separate state I share the sentiments of the people who are fighting for a separate state. This is absolute humiliation and playing with feelings. If the Congress and other political parties say a strict No no matter what, the TRS and other Telangana supporters can frame their strategy or approach. Even the other parties too, they claimed that they would support if govt. passes a resolution and it seems no resolution has been made.
When they called for an All Party Meeting to know the opinion of these parties, they said they would accept.
This is high time for the genuine leaders from all parties to come forward for an understanding ....... to clear any confusion. My colleagues were saying that the govt. would fall and there would be elections.
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 11, 2009, 12:38:33 AM12/11/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
I refrained from replying all this while just because i did not want to start a fresh round of arguments. But i think its time i make my points that might bring in new perspective to the ongoing discussion.
History and the Struggle
Most of you while making your points have said that you are not aware of the history and the injustices meted to the region of Telangana. My sincere request to all of you is to read the history of the struggle and also a little bit about the history of the region. This will help us in having a focused debate rather than a generalized Rhetoric of either United Andhra or Separate Telangana.
I request you to interact with your telangana friends. Go deep into telangana districts and find out why ordinary people feel they need a separate state.
United Andhra
How can United Andhra stand when Telangana says No? I have some questions for the votaries of the United Andhra.
1. Did you ever reflect on what you did when Telangana was fighting this battle of injustice?
2. Did anyone stand by them and express solidarity?
3. Did they ever question their leaders when their fellow telugu speaking brothers and sisters were suffering?
4. Did you ever speakup when every agreement made in 1956 as part of the merger were being violated?
One of the basic requirements for staying united is to trust each other. Unfortunately, the votaries of United Andhra never stood up and expressed their solidarity and support when the people of the region were making this demand for the last 60 years. People are not foolish to keep demanding a state and sustain a struggle for such long periods. How can people of telangana trust the fellow telugu speaking people of their support in their fight for justice when no such support was forth coming in the last 53 years?
When someone wants to separate, its the proponents of United Andhra who need to gain friends. I am not aware of any such effort either now or in the last few years when this demand cameup time and again. I personally feel that the mutual trust is at its lowest now. For the United andhra votaries to comeup now and say, we all speak the same language, lets be together is not justified according to me.
Even in the last 15 days when the telangana region was simmering, no such support or solidarity was forth coming other than condemning the violence.
Leadership
Many of you raised this issue of Telangana Leadership. I have a simple question for you, Does AP have good leaders? Leadership is not a problem that is specific to Telangana, but a general problem today in India. We have a crisis of good and genuine leadership. India is very special in that sense. Life goes on despite this huge vacuum of leadership and people find a way. People of telangana are no different and they will find their leader for good or bad. Democracy is for that very purpose.
I request all of you to look at things objectively and with a new perspective.
Rakesh
History and the Struggle
Most of you while making your points have said that you are not aware of the history and the injustices meted to the region of Telangana. My sincere request to all of you is to read the history of the struggle and also a little bit about the history of the region. This will help us in having a focused debate rather than a generalized Rhetoric of either United Andhra or Separate Telangana.
I request you to interact with your telangana friends. Go deep into telangana districts and find out why ordinary people feel they need a separate state.
United Andhra
How can United Andhra stand when Telangana says No? I have some questions for the votaries of the United Andhra.
1. Did you ever reflect on what you did when Telangana was fighting this battle of injustice?
2. Did anyone stand by them and express solidarity?
3. Did they ever question their leaders when their fellow telugu speaking brothers and sisters were suffering?
4. Did you ever speakup when every agreement made in 1956 as part of the merger were being violated?
One of the basic requirements for staying united is to trust each other. Unfortunately, the votaries of United Andhra never stood up and expressed their solidarity and support when the people of the region were making this demand for the last 60 years. People are not foolish to keep demanding a state and sustain a struggle for such long periods. How can people of telangana trust the fellow telugu speaking people of their support in their fight for justice when no such support was forth coming in the last 53 years?
When someone wants to separate, its the proponents of United Andhra who need to gain friends. I am not aware of any such effort either now or in the last few years when this demand cameup time and again. I personally feel that the mutual trust is at its lowest now. For the United andhra votaries to comeup now and say, we all speak the same language, lets be together is not justified according to me.
Even in the last 15 days when the telangana region was simmering, no such support or solidarity was forth coming other than condemning the violence.
Leadership
Many of you raised this issue of Telangana Leadership. I have a simple question for you, Does AP have good leaders? Leadership is not a problem that is specific to Telangana, but a general problem today in India. We have a crisis of good and genuine leadership. India is very special in that sense. Life goes on despite this huge vacuum of leadership and people find a way. People of telangana are no different and they will find their leader for good or bad. Democracy is for that very purpose.
I request all of you to look at things objectively and with a new perspective.
Rakesh
Sri
Dec 11, 2009, 1:44:44 AM12/11/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
My point about the bedroom was a pun, do not take it seriously.
My point about leadership is, not to say there are better leaders
elsewhere or Andhra has better leaders, what I was trying to say is
that what would be the next step and how will the people of the region
bring about drastic change when there is no leadership...A.P or
Telangana, it might be the same situation, only the politicians and a
segment of the society can cash in on this divide My point was not to
ridicule or criticize, my point is , where to from here....what
next...do we know?? Is this the solution??.
As for living together and no difference being made, it will take a
great person to digest it while being called traitors, which Rakesh's
message seems to convey though his intentions and references are
understandable. How can you call your friends traitors and say the
relationships wouldn't change? How can you draw a distinct line,
create borders and then say, nothing will change? The change was
brought about. I'm sure for future generations, it will not affect
much, but for many of those into this moment, unfortunately, the
negativity will strike very close to home. Personally for me, it
doesn't affect , I'm talking from an overall holistic perspective. You
are saying 'You are different, you are traitors, you exploited us' and
in this situation building trust will take a lot of effort.The fence
is only being built higher and higher......
Finally, about the effect of a new state, it will trigger lasting
socio-economic effect, that is inevitable. We can only hope that it is
for the better.
BTW Prasanthi, you said " Are we still in 1947? Why should that happen
now?" Look at (G.O.) 610 .
Rakesh, I'm going to definitely take your advise and read about this
issue. None of my Telangana friends were of nay help though.
Sri Surya
On Dec 10, 11:36 am, Prasanthi Uppalapati
> PRASANTHI.http://groups.google.com/group/birdsofsamefeathers
My point about leadership is, not to say there are better leaders
elsewhere or Andhra has better leaders, what I was trying to say is
that what would be the next step and how will the people of the region
bring about drastic change when there is no leadership...A.P or
Telangana, it might be the same situation, only the politicians and a
segment of the society can cash in on this divide My point was not to
ridicule or criticize, my point is , where to from here....what
next...do we know?? Is this the solution??.
As for living together and no difference being made, it will take a
great person to digest it while being called traitors, which Rakesh's
message seems to convey though his intentions and references are
understandable. How can you call your friends traitors and say the
relationships wouldn't change? How can you draw a distinct line,
create borders and then say, nothing will change? The change was
brought about. I'm sure for future generations, it will not affect
much, but for many of those into this moment, unfortunately, the
negativity will strike very close to home. Personally for me, it
doesn't affect , I'm talking from an overall holistic perspective. You
are saying 'You are different, you are traitors, you exploited us' and
in this situation building trust will take a lot of effort.The fence
is only being built higher and higher......
Finally, about the effect of a new state, it will trigger lasting
socio-economic effect, that is inevitable. We can only hope that it is
for the better.
BTW Prasanthi, you said " Are we still in 1947? Why should that happen
now?" Look at (G.O.) 610 .
Rakesh, I'm going to definitely take your advise and read about this
issue. None of my Telangana friends were of nay help though.
Sri Surya
On Dec 10, 11:36 am, Prasanthi Uppalapati
goutami krishna
Dec 11, 2009, 2:31:52 AM12/11/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
All the points seems to be valid. A Little confused in taking a stand at any of the sides.
I'm a Telanganite and my ancestors were in Andhra. So far we have been seeing ourselves as AP locals. What do I call myself now ?. I dont like to identify myself with either Telangana or Andhra or Rayalaseema as I never personally felt any difference in three of them. When our indians (Irrespective of the state/language) were discriminated in other countries it was unacceptable for me and those countries didn't stand any respect in my eyes. Truly speaking I never realized the Telanganites discrimination (if it is there) and its sad to see that it resulted in dividing the state. Many questions arise when we talk about seperation like.. who will pay the debts which AP govt took from world bank (Telangana or Andhra )? we may have to divide the industries, projects, farms and humans even in two or three states. How do we divide them. how do we divide and rule. It easy for those who divides but hard for those who gets divided. How does telangana is going to be developed and who will take the responsibility of it? making it a state itself takes lot of efforts,time and money..we are already suffering with draughts and floods. do we get enough support from other states? AP will loose its identification worldwide and it takes lot of time to recognize these three states individually. Is there any politician who can take all these on his/her head and assure development ? what if the govt / politician fails.
There is a saying "Inta gelichi.. raccha gelavu". I think now I shud not be bothered about the Indians discrimination in other countries Coz this word Discrimination crossed Countries, States and now cities. Very soon it may cross the streets too.. how do we point out others when we have the same bug within us.
My heart goes ... not to any region.. it goes for people who are going to be effected .
My heart goes ... not to any region.. it goes for people who are going to be effected .
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Thanks & Regards,
Goutami.
harish peddi
Dec 11, 2009, 3:12:05 AM12/11/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Birds,
@ Goutami Krishna - The issue is much wider and the scope is much larger than what you are pointing here. I request you and all others who are struck at this point, to look beyond the transaction level data and see the big picture.
There is a theory called Utilitarianism in the science of Ethics....i request everyone to read this to understand the same.
You are talking about the future of settlers of Hyd...but the issue is about 4 crore people and their 5 decades discrimination.
My understanding is simple - If there are two brothers in a family and one of them is earning more and spending less whereas the other one is earning less but spending more.....tell me who wants to stay together...who wants to separate...
It would have been much happier state now, had at least the expenses spent towards the development activities is even, (even if not pro-rata of income) across the state. But this was never never never the case. Hence the issue...
Again i am reaffirming my earlier statement, the idea of getting separated should not arise in the first place...once it is UP, its only foolish to act to subside the same.
Regards
Harish Peddi
Jai Telangana.
The current issue is on the descremination that is being carried out over a region of people.
goutami krishna
Dec 11, 2009, 4:43:11 AM12/11/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for your comments Harish.
Yes, the issue is much wider.. that is the reason I did put my note on everyone including Telengana . Im not talking about Hyderabad Settlers particualrly because I knew their future is not going to be effected and they are not going to be thrown out of telangana if the seperate state forms. Also, if they can get setteled in Hyderabad they can move and do the same anywhere. So it is not about Hyderabad settlers and not that they can't live anywhere else. The issue is same in Telangana, in Mumbai or in Australia. Yes, it would have been much happier state now and that is what I was talking about.
It would have been good if those 2 brothers were mutually organized to cordinate, earn and spend equally.
Prasanthi Uppalapati
Dec 11, 2009, 1:36:22 PM12/11/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
West Bengal:
Maharashtra:
Karnataka:
Uttarpradesh:
Assam:
Sri
Dec 12, 2009, 1:13:03 AM12/12/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
By my below comments, I don't mean to offend anyone's sentiments or
undermine any movement. It is just an observation and hope it will be
taken in the right sense.
Harish:
Utilitarianism is often described by the phrase "the greatest good for
the greatest number of people". However, I have my doubts about
Telangana...the people of Telangana rejected KCR in the polls, it was
like a referendum that they did not support his ideals, Many
Telanganaites are against separation, and Majority of Andhraites are
for a unified state, so this demand does not look like a majority
demand. Thanks for sharing the link, by the way, I like Peter Singers
interview on darwinism, though he presents it in a different way.
Goutam:
With selfish politicians leading with the sole objective of mass
appeasement, we never know what kind of policies and discriminative
rule they may come up with - it could be whatever will gain them
political mileage. Take for example what is happening with MNS. there
will be takers for any idea, however ridiculous it may be, for the
sole benefit of self. No one can say what will happen and what kind of
a backlash and hatred it may spew.
Also you stated : ' Also, if they can get setteled in Hyderabad they
stated. It is definitely difficult for any person to move anywhere be
it a Telangana person from Andhra or an Andhra person from Telangana.
Asking settlers to cross migrate is just not fair.
I have a question, other than a demand for separate state, I have not
heard of any developmental demands from any of the Telangana Leaders.
Forgive me if I am mistaken. Some people are riding high on the beat
up sentiments of many others.
Rakesh, I have great respect for you and your work. Here you asked if
any of the andhraites raised their voices when Telangana people were
discriminated, well to be frank, there are many parts of the state
which are very backward and underdeveloped. For example Srikakulam or
many other interior parts...I don't know how bad the Telangana is
because I have not traveled much, but so is Andhra...there is poverty
everywhere. Why were the leaders of Telangana not questioned or
demanded? You yourself do not ask your leaders but ask why your
brothers have not asked for you? You also said leadership will happen
automatically, though you agree there is a dearth of committed and
dedicated leaders across the country, hence it is a cause for more
concern. If there is none now, there was none in the near past, how
will they be made in future, and even if they are made, how can we be
sure they will not do the same? If you have soem mechanism to ensure
that, then, why was it not implemented so far with the existing
leadership? These are questions to be asked by each and every person,
after all, if and when a new state is born, it is just the beginning
of a greater responsibility for everyone involved.
And now, that VC is talking about civil war, not a very democratic
way. Each and every person who is fighting for Telangana should first
and foremost ask themselves what they have done for the region.
It bothers me that things seem to be getting very chaotic. I hope we
can do something to spread goodwill and peace in the current
situation. Let things shape as they will, but let the trust amongst us
not be shattered and let there be no violence.
Maybe a referendum is the right way to take decisions than someone at
Delhi deciding and then someone as inexperienced as Rahul Gandhi
talking about smaller states.
Jai Hind,
Sri Surya
On Dec 11, 3:43 am, goutami krishna <goutami.kris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your comments Harish.
>
> Yes, the issue is much wider.. that is the reason I did put my note on
> everyone including Telengana . Im not talking about Hyderabad Settlers
> particualrly because I knew their future is not going to be effected and
> they are not going to be thrown out of telangana if the seperate state
> forms. Also, if they can get setteled in Hyderabad they can move and do the
> same anywhere. So it is not about Hyderabad settlers and not that they can't
> live anywhere else. The issue is same in Telangana, in Mumbai or in
> Australia. Yes, it would have been much happier state now and that is what I
> was talking about.
> It would have been good if those 2 brothers were mutually organized to
> cordinate, earn and spend equally.
>
> >> word *Discrimination* crossed Countries, States and now cities. Very soon
> >> to be effected .
> ...
>
> read more »
undermine any movement. It is just an observation and hope it will be
taken in the right sense.
Harish:
Utilitarianism is often described by the phrase "the greatest good for
the greatest number of people". However, I have my doubts about
Telangana...the people of Telangana rejected KCR in the polls, it was
like a referendum that they did not support his ideals, Many
Telanganaites are against separation, and Majority of Andhraites are
for a unified state, so this demand does not look like a majority
demand. Thanks for sharing the link, by the way, I like Peter Singers
interview on darwinism, though he presents it in a different way.
Goutam:
With selfish politicians leading with the sole objective of mass
appeasement, we never know what kind of policies and discriminative
rule they may come up with - it could be whatever will gain them
political mileage. Take for example what is happening with MNS. there
will be takers for any idea, however ridiculous it may be, for the
sole benefit of self. No one can say what will happen and what kind of
a backlash and hatred it may spew.
Also you stated : ' Also, if they can get setteled in Hyderabad they
can move and do the same anywhere. So it is not about Hyderabad
settlers and not that they can't live anywhere else' : Not as easy as
stated. It is definitely difficult for any person to move anywhere be
it a Telangana person from Andhra or an Andhra person from Telangana.
Asking settlers to cross migrate is just not fair.
I have a question, other than a demand for separate state, I have not
heard of any developmental demands from any of the Telangana Leaders.
Forgive me if I am mistaken. Some people are riding high on the beat
up sentiments of many others.
Rakesh, I have great respect for you and your work. Here you asked if
any of the andhraites raised their voices when Telangana people were
discriminated, well to be frank, there are many parts of the state
which are very backward and underdeveloped. For example Srikakulam or
many other interior parts...I don't know how bad the Telangana is
because I have not traveled much, but so is Andhra...there is poverty
everywhere. Why were the leaders of Telangana not questioned or
demanded? You yourself do not ask your leaders but ask why your
brothers have not asked for you? You also said leadership will happen
automatically, though you agree there is a dearth of committed and
dedicated leaders across the country, hence it is a cause for more
concern. If there is none now, there was none in the near past, how
will they be made in future, and even if they are made, how can we be
sure they will not do the same? If you have soem mechanism to ensure
that, then, why was it not implemented so far with the existing
leadership? These are questions to be asked by each and every person,
after all, if and when a new state is born, it is just the beginning
of a greater responsibility for everyone involved.
And now, that VC is talking about civil war, not a very democratic
way. Each and every person who is fighting for Telangana should first
and foremost ask themselves what they have done for the region.
It bothers me that things seem to be getting very chaotic. I hope we
can do something to spread goodwill and peace in the current
situation. Let things shape as they will, but let the trust amongst us
not be shattered and let there be no violence.
Maybe a referendum is the right way to take decisions than someone at
Delhi deciding and then someone as inexperienced as Rahul Gandhi
talking about smaller states.
Jai Hind,
Sri Surya
On Dec 11, 3:43 am, goutami krishna <goutami.kris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your comments Harish.
>
> Yes, the issue is much wider.. that is the reason I did put my note on
> everyone including Telengana . Im not talking about Hyderabad Settlers
> particualrly because I knew their future is not going to be effected and
> they are not going to be thrown out of telangana if the seperate state
> forms. Also, if they can get setteled in Hyderabad they can move and do the
> same anywhere. So it is not about Hyderabad settlers and not that they can't
> live anywhere else. The issue is same in Telangana, in Mumbai or in
> Australia. Yes, it would have been much happier state now and that is what I
> was talking about.
> It would have been good if those 2 brothers were mutually organized to
> cordinate, earn and spend equally.
>
> >> it may cross the streets too.. how do we point out others when we have the
> >> same bug within us.
>
> >> My heart goes ... not to any region.. it goes for *people* who are going
> >> same bug within us.
>
> >> to be effected .
>
> read more »
harinath adapa
Dec 12, 2009, 7:18:26 PM12/12/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
I don't see anything wrong in the interview <<below link>>, his answer(s) sounds me very reasonable.
Thanks,
Hari!
IDEO
Dec 12, 2009, 9:34:56 PM12/12/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
@Sri Surya
I am not for separation, for the basic reason that I am emotionally
attached with Andhra Pradesh and not to Telangana, Andra or
Rayalaseema. Anyways, I think you need to get your perspective and
facts right.
>> However, I have my doubts about Telangana...
>> the people of Telangana rejected KCR in the
>> polls, it was like a referendum that they did
>> not support his ideals.
Voting in our country (for that matter, most part of the world) does
not merely happen based on the ideologies of a politician. If only
that was the case, all the corrupt politicians would have been behind
the bars and our country would have been the first corruption free
country.
People of Telangana, at least a major chunk of it did not vote for KCR
or his party because they started to lose trust in him or his parties’
WAYS to get statehood for Telangana and not in the idea itself.
As per my knowledge, every party supported the idea of Telangana in
2009 even congress. But politicians are smart and they know how to
frame their sentences for immediate benefit to future denial.
In 1939, Pattabhi sitaramaih, a candidate supported by Mahatma Gandhi
lost elections to win as congress president. That does not mean,
congress men stopped believing in basic idea of Mahatma Gandhi.
>> I have not heard of any developmental demands
>> from any of the Telangana Leaders.
I thought the demand for a separate state by itself is a demand for
development in Telangana. If not for the movement, Telangana region
would not have found a place in jalayagnam but once again that's being
exploited.
Please do your research before commenting... or are your comments or
questions part of your research.
Anyways, its a nice discussion...
On Dec 13, 5:18 am, harinath adapa <harinath.ad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't see anything wrong in the interview <<below link>>, his answer(s)
> sounds me very reasonable.
>
> http://www.eenadu.net/panelhtml.asp?qrystr=htm/panel3.htm
>
> Thanks,
> Hari!
>
> ...
>
> read more »
I am not for separation, for the basic reason that I am emotionally
attached with Andhra Pradesh and not to Telangana, Andra or
Rayalaseema. Anyways, I think you need to get your perspective and
facts right.
>> However, I have my doubts about Telangana...
>> the people of Telangana rejected KCR in the
>> polls, it was like a referendum that they did
Voting in our country (for that matter, most part of the world) does
not merely happen based on the ideologies of a politician. If only
that was the case, all the corrupt politicians would have been behind
the bars and our country would have been the first corruption free
country.
People of Telangana, at least a major chunk of it did not vote for KCR
or his party because they started to lose trust in him or his parties’
WAYS to get statehood for Telangana and not in the idea itself.
As per my knowledge, every party supported the idea of Telangana in
2009 even congress. But politicians are smart and they know how to
frame their sentences for immediate benefit to future denial.
In 1939, Pattabhi sitaramaih, a candidate supported by Mahatma Gandhi
lost elections to win as congress president. That does not mean,
congress men stopped believing in basic idea of Mahatma Gandhi.
>> I have not heard of any developmental demands
>> from any of the Telangana Leaders.
development in Telangana. If not for the movement, Telangana region
would not have found a place in jalayagnam but once again that's being
exploited.
Please do your research before commenting... or are your comments or
questions part of your research.
Anyways, its a nice discussion...
On Dec 13, 5:18 am, harinath adapa <harinath.ad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't see anything wrong in the interview <<below link>>, his answer(s)
> sounds me very reasonable.
>
> http://www.eenadu.net/panelhtml.asp?qrystr=htm/panel3.htm
>
> Thanks,
> Hari!
>
>
> read more »
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 12, 2009, 9:55:26 PM12/12/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Some videos and articles to know the culture and history,
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 12, 2009, 10:25:36 PM12/12/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
@Surya:
Firstly my question was directed to people who were feeling bad that the fellow telugus want to separate. So my question was to them who are feeling bad. This feeling of sadness should have engulfed you long back when this battle of justice is being fought for 60 years. I have made it very clear about trust and where it stands today. Trust is a prerequisite to stay united in my belief.
Leadership cannot be a pretext for not accepting telangana. Its a general phenomenon everywhere. There are good and bad leaders and people of telangana have fought against them. This very movement is not because of KCR, its a mass uprising of the people from all sections of society. It would be foolish to think that the congress high command took the decision of because of KCR's hunger strike. Its nothing but belittling the 60 years of struggle and the movement that withstood the test of times. If leadership is a reason, then even AP cannot be ruled by the ones that are ruling now. The very fact that people have risen is proof enough. Demand for separate state in itself is demand for development, for a better life.
To clear the air on TRS loosing the elections in 2009,
In 2004: Except TDP, all the other parties promised a telangana and TDP got a drubbing.
In 2009: All the parties promised telangana. Its only TRS that lost the election, not the sentiment of the people. The sentiment logic will only be discussed when there are two parties. When everyone says YES, there is no competition. 2009 elections was not about telangana. All parties including congress promised telangana in their manifestos. Please check the manifesto. When everyone says telangana, there is no polarisation on that issue. So dont count 2009 elections as the one between Pro and anti telangana lobbies, because everybody was protelangana.
To say that since TRS lost the election in 2009, there is no sentiment is a ridiculous judgement. Infact, this is enough proof that if leaders dont fulfill their promises, people throw them out. TRS was no exception and this is why individuals who did not do any work in the constituencies lost the election. Harish Rao from TRS won with the highest majority in the state. His majority increased from 2004. What does that mean then?
Rakesh
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 13, 2009, 12:16:59 AM12/13/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Some songs from the Movie Bathukamma - Movie reflecting telangana culture, history and struggle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WcHKWf43QU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q7K_q-fW60&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WcHKWf43QU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q7K_q-fW60&feature=related
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 13, 2009, 10:53:34 AM12/13/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Sri
Dec 13, 2009, 3:02:38 PM12/13/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Rakesh & IDEO:
Your explanation and comments on the elections makes sense, thank you
for sharing that.
Ideo, my questions indeed are part of my 'research' as you would call
it... I did mention my ignorance on demands made. However, I don't
think a demand for a separate state alone is a development plan....I
was hoping someone would mention some of the specific examples / major
projects / activities which were proposed by the Telangana region and
were denied / snubbed.
I read in the paper today KCR mentioning that because Politically
powerful Andhra people came and took over all the jobs in Telangana,
The Telangana folks were driven to the gulf. I don't know about the
jobs, I do know that there was a domicile factor in the APPSC
applications and assumed other jobs were awarded on merit /
reservations. Also, it is not that Andhra people did not go to gulf,
people go there to earn more than what they could make here.
It pains me to see all the violence and other riots across the state,
be it Telangana or Andhra. I think it is senseless to damage someone
else's property and cause others harm, whatever the cause may be. The
competition we face is at a global level, we shouldn't be fighting
amongst ourselves. I am also surprised to see the mass resignations,
it is just making things more and more messier.
SS.
On Dec 13, 9:53 am, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu <rakesh.dubb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> >> *
> >> *@Surya:*
>
> >> *Firstly my question was directed to people who were feeling bad that the
> >> *
> >> *
Your explanation and comments on the elections makes sense, thank you
for sharing that.
Ideo, my questions indeed are part of my 'research' as you would call
it... I did mention my ignorance on demands made. However, I don't
think a demand for a separate state alone is a development plan....I
was hoping someone would mention some of the specific examples / major
projects / activities which were proposed by the Telangana region and
were denied / snubbed.
I read in the paper today KCR mentioning that because Politically
powerful Andhra people came and took over all the jobs in Telangana,
The Telangana folks were driven to the gulf. I don't know about the
jobs, I do know that there was a domicile factor in the APPSC
applications and assumed other jobs were awarded on merit /
reservations. Also, it is not that Andhra people did not go to gulf,
people go there to earn more than what they could make here.
It pains me to see all the violence and other riots across the state,
be it Telangana or Andhra. I think it is senseless to damage someone
else's property and cause others harm, whatever the cause may be. The
competition we face is at a global level, we shouldn't be fighting
amongst ourselves. I am also surprised to see the mass resignations,
it is just making things more and more messier.
SS.
On Dec 13, 9:53 am, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu <rakesh.dubb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Article from AJ
>
> http://www.andhrajyothy.com/mainshow.asp?qry=/2009/dec/12main49
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu <
>
>
>
> rakesh.dubb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Some songs from the Movie Bathukamma - Movie reflecting telangana culture,
> > history and struggle.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WcHKWf43QU
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q7K_q-fW60&feature=related
>
> > On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu <
> > rakesh.dubb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.andhrajyothy.com/mainshow.asp?qry=/2009/dec/12main49
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu <
>
>
>
> rakesh.dubb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Some songs from the Movie Bathukamma - Movie reflecting telangana culture,
> > history and struggle.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WcHKWf43QU
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q7K_q-fW60&feature=related
>
> > On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu <
>
> >> *
> >> *@Surya:*
>
> >> *Firstly my question was directed to people who were feeling bad that the
> >> *
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 13, 2009, 9:46:06 PM12/13/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Telangana-isn-t-scary/H1-Article1-485141.aspx
Telangana isn’t scary
Consider these excerpts from a set of essays I have been reading:
‘The people of Telangana find themselves in an unenviable state. Their fellow countrymen outside the State of Andhra Pradesh, are unable to understand, much less appreciate, the significance of the revolt in Telangana’.
‘The moment Telangana elected representatives dehypnotise themselves from the lure and pressure of the Andhra political bosses, and fall in line with the aspirations of their electors, the movement will reach its natural culmination’.
These words sound wholly of the moment, whereas they come from a book published 40 years ago. In the first weeks of 1969, meetings calling for a separate state were held in towns and villages in Telangana. As a result of the ‘continuously rising tempo of the Telangana movement’, the police came out in force, and ‘lathi-charges, firings and the resultant violence became the accepted way of life in Telangana’.
In response to the crisis, 300 college teachers held a convention at Hyderabad on May 20, 1969. The proceedings of the conference were published in a book, now scarce, entitled The Telangana Movement: An Investigative Focus. I came by my copy on the pavement in Bangalore some years ago — it is time to share it with the world, since, as the excerpts show, it has a strikingly contemporary resonance.
In 1969, as in 2009, the campaign for Telangana was marked by a rhetoric of betrayal. On February 20, 1956, a ‘Gentlemen’s Agreement’ was signed between the Congress leaders of the Andhra and Telangana regions respectively. This promised that the deputy chief minister of the united state would be from Telangana, that there would be a quota for Telangana people in government jobs, that an influx of Andhras into their territory would not be allowed. The complaint was that these safeguards had not been put in place.
Nor did the charges end here. Thus, while Telangana had 42 per cent of the state’s cultivated area, it was allotted 30 per cent of the state’s expenditure on agriculture, 27 per cent of the allocation of fertilisers and less than its fair share of canal waters and hydel power.
The convention also made the case for Telangana in positive terms. The state would be viable in size; bigger, for example, than West Bengal and Kerala. It would be viable in economic terms; its rates of food production were higher than the national average, and it had excellent mineral resources. More substantially, it would contribute to a deepening of Indian democracy. For ‘smaller states can help [in] democratising our political process, which in turn will attract the larger sections into [the] developmental process…’ Indeed, ‘smaller states may herald a new and promising era in the political and economic life of [the] nation’.
The delegates to the Hyderabad convention met with the Union home minister to press their case. They failed then — now, 40 years later, their successors appear to have succeeded, with the government promising to pass a resolution in the Andhra Pradesh assembly calling for a separate state of Telangana.
In the 1950s, the map of India was redrawn to create states based on language. That process was likewise set in motion by a fast, conducted by Potti Sriramulu, for a separate state of Andhra Pradesh. Sriramulu, like
K. Chandrasekhar Rao, embodied the sentiments of millions of people. Since he was more obscure, and the prime minister of the day more powerful, it took his death (after 58 days without food) and the intensification of the street protests for the Centre to concede the new state. This then led to protests by Kannada, Marathi, and Malayalam speakers, in response to which a States Reorganisation Commission (SRC) was created, which, in 1956, officially mandated the principle of linguistic states.
In retrospect, it is clear that this reorganisation consolidated national unity, such that India did not go the way of Pakistan and Sri Lanka, which had to suffer bloody civil wars because of the unwillingness to grant linguistic autonomy. However, our nation-state is comparatively young, and still evolving. It now faces a second generation of challenges, these pertaining to the regional imbalances in social and economic development. A new SRC should be constituted, which would look dispassionately into the demands for Vidarbha, Gorkhaland, Harit Pradesh, Kongu Nadu, and other such. Its mandate should also include the granting of real financial and political autonomy to panchayats and municipalities.
To do its task fairly and honourably, a new SRC must draw its members not from political parties but from the law, the academy, and the social sector. The members of the first SRC were the jurist Fazl Ali, the author and diplomat K.M. Panikkar, and the social worker H.N. Kunzru. India today has a comparable set of distinguished and independent-minded people. Some names for a fresh SRC I might suggest are the jurist Fali Nariman, the economist Jean Dreze, the sociologist André Béteille, and the social worker Ela Bhatt — but there would be others, too.
One hopes the Centre has the courage to redeem a promise first made in the UPA manifesto of 2004 but quietly forgotten since. Meanwhile, expect Jaswant Singh to put aside his pen, thus to answer his constituents’ demand that he make Gorkhaland the sole object of his attentions. Ajit Singh may also be stirred out of his present lethargy to lead the movement for Harit Pradesh. As for Rao, he certainly knows the parallels with the movement in the 1950s for a separate Andhra. Potti Sriramulu’s fast was conducted in Madras; because he lived there, and because he wanted Madras to be the capital of Andhra Pradesh. In the event, Sriramulu’s supporters got their state but not that city. Rao’s greatest fear now must be that history would repeat itself in toto, such that they have their Telangana, but without Hyderabad.
Ramachandra Guha is the author of India After Gandhi: The History of the World’s Largest Democracy
The views expressed by the author are personal
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 14, 2009, 9:51:52 PM12/14/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Ajit Dembla
Dec 14, 2009, 10:19:30 PM12/14/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Dear All,
The vested interests (from wherever - be it andhra or rayalseema or even telangana's own) who have invested in Hyderabad, will be severely affected by Hyderabad being part of Telangana. They are the one's resigning left, right and center against the separation. They shall be the one's who CAN defeat this resolution on the floor of the state assembly. Telangana is not being supported 100% by any party. The parties themselves - be it congress / TDP and even PRP are split on this issue internally. The surprise congress decision has shocked EVERYONE. Noone thought centre would respond by a final decision. Newspaper reports of day 7 / 8 / 9 will show that KCR was willing to break his fast, just if he was called to delhi for talks !
Nevertheless, thats the past. Whether we like it or not, this decision will mean curtailment of investment in the twin cities. The uncertainity will make the issue bigger than it is. It is a dangerous situation for the city. Its now a city with no known future. It is not the businessman, who can invest his effort and hard-earned money, where there is uncertainity. Yes, there is no anarchy, but there is disruption of peace. That itself is a huge deterrent. The quarter revenues of IT companies as well as other sectors will show this impact in AP already.Hotels have lost considerable money and lot of events scheduled have got cancelled .
I can support any cause, that has a developmental agenda attached to it, a common visible, distinct, clear positive good. If it is a leap from one uncertain situation to the other, then I wont really term it progress. There may have been just reasons for the movement to exist in 1960's. Social and economical conditions change over time. It needs to be assessed now as to why there is no change. And should be done for the entire country - not just for telangana. The solution lies in holding our Politicians Accountable.
A statement from TRS reported today, that TRS is willing to wait till 2014 for telangana to be formed, shows that the plan to put the issue in the freezer has been formed already. In next 2-3 days, all demonstrations will stop and it will be status quo !!! Next elections will be fought in AP on the 'telangana issue'.
Long live democracy !
AD
--
B/regards,
Ajit Dembla
The vested interests (from wherever - be it andhra or rayalseema or even telangana's own) who have invested in Hyderabad, will be severely affected by Hyderabad being part of Telangana. They are the one's resigning left, right and center against the separation. They shall be the one's who CAN defeat this resolution on the floor of the state assembly. Telangana is not being supported 100% by any party. The parties themselves - be it congress / TDP and even PRP are split on this issue internally. The surprise congress decision has shocked EVERYONE. Noone thought centre would respond by a final decision. Newspaper reports of day 7 / 8 / 9 will show that KCR was willing to break his fast, just if he was called to delhi for talks !
Nevertheless, thats the past. Whether we like it or not, this decision will mean curtailment of investment in the twin cities. The uncertainity will make the issue bigger than it is. It is a dangerous situation for the city. Its now a city with no known future. It is not the businessman, who can invest his effort and hard-earned money, where there is uncertainity. Yes, there is no anarchy, but there is disruption of peace. That itself is a huge deterrent. The quarter revenues of IT companies as well as other sectors will show this impact in AP already.Hotels have lost considerable money and lot of events scheduled have got cancelled .
I can support any cause, that has a developmental agenda attached to it, a common visible, distinct, clear positive good. If it is a leap from one uncertain situation to the other, then I wont really term it progress. There may have been just reasons for the movement to exist in 1960's. Social and economical conditions change over time. It needs to be assessed now as to why there is no change. And should be done for the entire country - not just for telangana. The solution lies in holding our Politicians Accountable.
A statement from TRS reported today, that TRS is willing to wait till 2014 for telangana to be formed, shows that the plan to put the issue in the freezer has been formed already. In next 2-3 days, all demonstrations will stop and it will be status quo !!! Next elections will be fought in AP on the 'telangana issue'.
Long live democracy !
AD
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu <rakesh....@gmail.com> wrote:
http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/dec/14/tvr-shenoy-asks-why-we-are-scared-of-small-states.htm
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B/regards,
Ajit Dembla
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 15, 2009, 4:29:14 AM12/15/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Its time we reflect on this obsession with Hyderabad and think on what constitutes development.
If people look at glass buildings in hyd and think that is development, we are headed in the wrong direction. The uprising had to happen some day when the poor villager is going for a toss. Its not about today, but for years together subjugated and exploited. Everything gets back to INCLUSIVE Development and preserving interests (not just economic) of all sections in the right earnest.
The issue of telangana today has to be looked at from that angle.
The issue of Telangana is often misconstrued as a struggle for a separate land. But at stake are much deeper political, social and economic issues. At stake is the very existence and the identity of the people. There is a cultural and social angle to it which a lot of people ignore.
These are some of the things that come to my mind when i think of the discrimination of culture and history.
The reasons for separation are not totally economic as people make it out to be. My sincere request again to all the members is to read the history of telangana. This will give you all a better insight into the current struggle and its roots.
Thanks
Rakesh
If people look at glass buildings in hyd and think that is development, we are headed in the wrong direction. The uprising had to happen some day when the poor villager is going for a toss. Its not about today, but for years together subjugated and exploited. Everything gets back to INCLUSIVE Development and preserving interests (not just economic) of all sections in the right earnest.
The issue of telangana today has to be looked at from that angle.
The issue of Telangana is often misconstrued as a struggle for a separate land. But at stake are much deeper political, social and economic issues. At stake is the very existence and the identity of the people. There is a cultural and social angle to it which a lot of people ignore.
These are some of the things that come to my mind when i think of the discrimination of culture and history.
- We do not have a single line mentioned in our Academics about the history of the martyrs who laid down their lives in the battle with Nizam and fought against the cruel Razzakars.This was akin to the 1857 uprising. But never found any place in the academic books.
- There is no mention of the most important traditional festival called Bathukamma in any book. I am also not sure how many people settled in Telangana actually know about it, leave alone celebrating it. The same set of people will happily celebrate christmas, halloween when they go to the US.
- We never hear of Boorgula Ramakrishna Rao who sacrificed his chief ministership during the merger of the State in 1956.
- We always hear of “TELUGU VAARI TOLI RAAJADHANI KURNOOL”. (Even during the recent floods). Before 1956, telugu speaking people who were in hyderabad state had their capital as hyderabad and not kurnool. This is distorting facts for me.
- We were never taught what happened in history between 1947 to 1956 November 1 in the Hyderabad state.
- Ask people to name a few leaders from AP, i would bet you will never get a name from Telangana.
The reasons for separation are not totally economic as people make it out to be. My sincere request again to all the members is to read the history of telangana. This will give you all a better insight into the current struggle and its roots.
Thanks
Rakesh
Ramana NV
Dec 15, 2009, 1:45:34 PM12/15/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Exploited?? History ??
Do u believe these can be solved with a Seperate state
On Tuesday,l December 15, 2009, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Do u believe these can be solved with a Seperate state
On Tuesday,l December 15, 2009, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
<rakesh....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Its time we reflect on this obsession with Hyderabad and think on what constitutes development.
>
> If people look at glass buildings in hyd and think that is development, we are headed in the wrong direction. The uprising had to happen some day when the poor villager is going for a toss. Its not about today, but for years together subjugated and exploited. Everything gets back to INCLUSIVE Development and preserving interests (not just economic) of all sections in the right earnest.
>
> The issue of telangana today has to be looked at from that angle.
>
> The
> issue of Telangana is often misconstrued as a struggle for a separate land. But
> at stake are much deeper political, social and economic issues. At stake is the
> very existence and the identity of the people. There is a cultural and social angle to it which a lot of people ignore.
>
> These are some of the things that come to my mind when i think of the discrimination of culture and history.
>
> We do not have a single line mentioned in our Academics about the history of the martyrs who laid down their lives in the battle with Nizam and fought against the cruel Razzakars.This was akin to the 1857 uprising. But never found any place in the academic books.
>
>
> There is no mention of the most important traditional festival called Bathukamma in any book. I am also not sure how many people settled in Telangana actually know about it, leave alone celebrating it. The same set of people will happily celebrate christmas, halloween when they go to the US.
>
>
> We never hear of Boorgula Ramakrishna Rao who sacrificed his chief ministership during the merger of the State in 1956.
> We always hear of “TELUGU VAARI TOLI RAAJADHANI KURNOOL”. (Even during the recent floods). Before 1956, telugu speaking people who were in hyderabad state had their capital as hyderabad and not kurnool. This is distorting facts for me.
> We were never taught what happened in history between 1947 to 1956 November 1 in the Hyderabad state.Ask people to name a few leaders from AP, i would bet you will never get a name from Telangana.
> Its time we reflect on this obsession with Hyderabad and think on what constitutes development.
>
> If people look at glass buildings in hyd and think that is development, we are headed in the wrong direction. The uprising had to happen some day when the poor villager is going for a toss. Its not about today, but for years together subjugated and exploited. Everything gets back to INCLUSIVE Development and preserving interests (not just economic) of all sections in the right earnest.
>
> The issue of telangana today has to be looked at from that angle.
>
> The
> issue of Telangana is often misconstrued as a struggle for a separate land. But
> at stake are much deeper political, social and economic issues. At stake is the
> very existence and the identity of the people. There is a cultural and social angle to it which a lot of people ignore.
>
> These are some of the things that come to my mind when i think of the discrimination of culture and history.
>
> We do not have a single line mentioned in our Academics about the history of the martyrs who laid down their lives in the battle with Nizam and fought against the cruel Razzakars.This was akin to the 1857 uprising. But never found any place in the academic books.
>
>
> There is no mention of the most important traditional festival called Bathukamma in any book. I am also not sure how many people settled in Telangana actually know about it, leave alone celebrating it. The same set of people will happily celebrate christmas, halloween when they go to the US.
>
>
> We never hear of Boorgula Ramakrishna Rao who sacrificed his chief ministership during the merger of the State in 1956.
> We always hear of “TELUGU VAARI TOLI RAAJADHANI KURNOOL”. (Even during the recent floods). Before 1956, telugu speaking people who were in hyderabad state had their capital as hyderabad and not kurnool. This is distorting facts for me.
>
> All this is cultural discrimination for me. After a few decades, the next generation will completely forget a glorious history of uprising of the peasant against a tyrannic ruler called Nizam because they were not taught about it in their history books.
>
> The reasons for separation are not totally economic as people make it out to be. My sincere request again to all the members is to read the history of telangana. This will give you all a better insight into the current struggle and its roots.
>
> Thanks
> Rakesh
>
>
> All this is cultural discrimination for me. After a few decades, the next generation will completely forget a glorious history of uprising of the peasant against a tyrannic ruler called Nizam because they were not taught about it in their history books.
>
> The reasons for separation are not totally economic as people make it out to be. My sincere request again to all the members is to read the history of telangana. This will give you all a better insight into the current struggle and its roots.
>
> Thanks
> Rakesh
>
>
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 15, 2009, 9:08:48 PM12/15/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Self rule is the foremost thing and people will make sure they get what they want.
shiv@infosys
Dec 16, 2009, 1:05:47 PM12/16/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
I had decided that I will not write again on this topic. This is close
to heart for many of us. However looking at the way things are
unfolding could not stop myself. One thing I felt, to be frank, is
even we who think about society and tend to find ways to better it,
are unable to keep our emotions out of the topic when we talk about
it.
I am really sorry Rakesh, if I am wrong here, but "Self rule is the
Many people are questioning the violence that is involved in this
agitation. Had govt and politicians listened to Telangana peoples'
concerns before, things would have never come to this stage.
Unfortunately peaceful agitation never finds any takers in the land of
Mahatma anymore. Even the declaration that Telangana will be formed
came out due to fear of outbreak of excessive violence in Hyderabad if
something happens to KCR. Nothing else could explain the late night
declaration as if there was no tomorrow. As bhagat singh had said "To
make deaf listen, sometimes you need an explosion." Yes, undoubtedly
innocent people come in between the crossfire but unfortunately our
political framework has become so numb that we have got no other
alternative.
As I said before I am too ignaorant to comment of T-factor, I dont
even know whether its Right or Wrong. History as we all know is
written the way the historians want. I believe in Today. Today, people
are afraid to raise their voice, people are dummies in the hands of
politicians, people are dumb when police harrass them, people are
victims when goondas do their heartfuls, people are blind when real
estate giants are gulping acres. These are the issues I see and I
along with ITMD work for enablement of people, enabling people to
raise their voice, to leave back their fear. The people may be from
Telangana or from Andhra or anyone for that matter.
Even now I see the alternate solution is to create a deputy CM post
mandatorily and mandate that a leader from Telangana be elected as Dy
CM. Stopping people from migrating into Telangana is a foolish thought
and non-constitutional I believe. India as country, as per its
constitution, gives right to every Indian to live in any part of India
peacefully. No one can question this right. There may be some local
rules to which we may need to comply. Like registering with Police in
sensitive areas but restricting is not legal.
Despite that we all know that migration into cities in bad in long
term and only solution again to this is to develop smaller towns to be
self sufficient so that they can act as buffers. It was part of LS
agenda. Dont ask me what is Loksatta, though a miniscule party its
menifesto is far far better than any other party's.
Tomorrow other states will say no telugu person in our state please,
or US will say Indians go back, can we even imagine this? Lets' not
attempt to take the world backwards. Even Nature does not work that
way, its always survival of the fittest. But since we are humans and
we tend to work with nature by slightly altering it rather than
accepting as it is, we should be sensitive towards a region which have
not grown to its full potential. But unfortunately in all these years
of Telangana struggle not once did rest of Andhra or India think about
it. All these years it has been conveniently put in back burner even
by its own leaders only to be used as political agenda once in five
years.
One interesting question is, had Hyderabad been geographically in
Andhra Region, would Telangana people have fought for their homeland,
or would Andhra people have fought for Samaikhya Andhra. :)
Let us not even think if Hyderabad is developed or not, it is. The
development is not inclusive but that is how it is in every other
indian city, there is always a section of people who are left to be
mere spectators while a few select prosper. Lets not isolate Hyderabad
into this category and analyze. Nature will work its way through the
pyramid. I know 25 years back, I could not afford square meal a day,
now I can eat at will. Nature works in strange ways and sometimes we
need a bit of luck too.
When we ask foreigners how many cities they can name in India, most of
them identify Hyderabad and no its not because we have hussain sagar
or Charminar. Its because it is developing and has a huge potential
for becoming a mega city if only people and politicians let it be.
First of all we have to put a PIL in supreme court against bandhs.
Bandh in itself is unconstitutional and state and central govt has to
ensure that a city or state does not stop on politicians will.
I rest my laptop by sharing few lines which I happen to read in some
blog. "People in Hyderabad are not wholeheartedly supporting
Telangana, it is because most of them are working class and they do
not bother about Telangana or Andhra or even India. Screw these guys."
I believe we the working class are the ones who contribute to the
development of a place the most. The BPL people do not pay taxes, the
upper class people manipulate a lot, but out taxes are cut religiously
every month. This goes into development of the place. We do not say
anything even if there is violence, we do share our opinion, because,
yes, may be surviving is top on agenda. But think about it, is it not
what Telangana is fighting for, separate state may or may not be the
solution, but their cause is genuine, they are fighting for survival.
Even if the state is not formed, its better that state govts in future
understand the needs of people of this region and work for wholesome
development.
Thanks for the patience.
P.S. Purely personal opinion and cannot be attributed to ITMD. FYI, I
am no more the president of this group and Panasa Rama Krishna is our
new elected president for the coming one year.
to heart for many of us. However looking at the way things are
unfolding could not stop myself. One thing I felt, to be frank, is
even we who think about society and tend to find ways to better it,
are unable to keep our emotions out of the topic when we talk about
it.
I am really sorry Rakesh, if I am wrong here, but "Self rule is the
foremost thing and people will make sure they get what they want."
took me aback.
Many people are questioning the violence that is involved in this
agitation. Had govt and politicians listened to Telangana peoples'
concerns before, things would have never come to this stage.
Unfortunately peaceful agitation never finds any takers in the land of
Mahatma anymore. Even the declaration that Telangana will be formed
came out due to fear of outbreak of excessive violence in Hyderabad if
something happens to KCR. Nothing else could explain the late night
declaration as if there was no tomorrow. As bhagat singh had said "To
make deaf listen, sometimes you need an explosion." Yes, undoubtedly
innocent people come in between the crossfire but unfortunately our
political framework has become so numb that we have got no other
alternative.
As I said before I am too ignaorant to comment of T-factor, I dont
even know whether its Right or Wrong. History as we all know is
written the way the historians want. I believe in Today. Today, people
are afraid to raise their voice, people are dummies in the hands of
politicians, people are dumb when police harrass them, people are
victims when goondas do their heartfuls, people are blind when real
estate giants are gulping acres. These are the issues I see and I
along with ITMD work for enablement of people, enabling people to
raise their voice, to leave back their fear. The people may be from
Telangana or from Andhra or anyone for that matter.
Even now I see the alternate solution is to create a deputy CM post
mandatorily and mandate that a leader from Telangana be elected as Dy
CM. Stopping people from migrating into Telangana is a foolish thought
and non-constitutional I believe. India as country, as per its
constitution, gives right to every Indian to live in any part of India
peacefully. No one can question this right. There may be some local
rules to which we may need to comply. Like registering with Police in
sensitive areas but restricting is not legal.
Despite that we all know that migration into cities in bad in long
term and only solution again to this is to develop smaller towns to be
self sufficient so that they can act as buffers. It was part of LS
agenda. Dont ask me what is Loksatta, though a miniscule party its
menifesto is far far better than any other party's.
Tomorrow other states will say no telugu person in our state please,
or US will say Indians go back, can we even imagine this? Lets' not
attempt to take the world backwards. Even Nature does not work that
way, its always survival of the fittest. But since we are humans and
we tend to work with nature by slightly altering it rather than
accepting as it is, we should be sensitive towards a region which have
not grown to its full potential. But unfortunately in all these years
of Telangana struggle not once did rest of Andhra or India think about
it. All these years it has been conveniently put in back burner even
by its own leaders only to be used as political agenda once in five
years.
One interesting question is, had Hyderabad been geographically in
Andhra Region, would Telangana people have fought for their homeland,
or would Andhra people have fought for Samaikhya Andhra. :)
Let us not even think if Hyderabad is developed or not, it is. The
development is not inclusive but that is how it is in every other
indian city, there is always a section of people who are left to be
mere spectators while a few select prosper. Lets not isolate Hyderabad
into this category and analyze. Nature will work its way through the
pyramid. I know 25 years back, I could not afford square meal a day,
now I can eat at will. Nature works in strange ways and sometimes we
need a bit of luck too.
When we ask foreigners how many cities they can name in India, most of
them identify Hyderabad and no its not because we have hussain sagar
or Charminar. Its because it is developing and has a huge potential
for becoming a mega city if only people and politicians let it be.
First of all we have to put a PIL in supreme court against bandhs.
Bandh in itself is unconstitutional and state and central govt has to
ensure that a city or state does not stop on politicians will.
I rest my laptop by sharing few lines which I happen to read in some
blog. "People in Hyderabad are not wholeheartedly supporting
Telangana, it is because most of them are working class and they do
not bother about Telangana or Andhra or even India. Screw these guys."
I believe we the working class are the ones who contribute to the
development of a place the most. The BPL people do not pay taxes, the
upper class people manipulate a lot, but out taxes are cut religiously
every month. This goes into development of the place. We do not say
anything even if there is violence, we do share our opinion, because,
yes, may be surviving is top on agenda. But think about it, is it not
what Telangana is fighting for, separate state may or may not be the
solution, but their cause is genuine, they are fighting for survival.
Even if the state is not formed, its better that state govts in future
understand the needs of people of this region and work for wholesome
development.
Thanks for the patience.
P.S. Purely personal opinion and cannot be attributed to ITMD. FYI, I
am no more the president of this group and Panasa Rama Krishna is our
new elected president for the coming one year.
lalith kumar
Dec 16, 2009, 1:34:28 PM12/16/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Birds,
--
Lalith Kumar
Mob: +91 9885811774
http://awakening-indians.blogspot.com/
"Problems must not be our masters, but Problems should be one's Slaves"
Shiv: Great one, i really appreciate for the patience you have, when other countries are fighting and thinking for development, we are really idiots fighting for dividing ourselves.
Fighting for dividing ourselves, a game plan of politicians for their benefits, if really telangana or andhra or rayalaseema people have same guts similar to the agitations they are doing now, why the hell they are not doing against the MLA's or MP's or Ministers in their respective areas when they are not developing their constituencies.
Game plan for need of power, Md Ali Jinnah divided India just for the sake of Prime Minister ship, here every politician, starting from Jagan, Chiru, Babu, KCR, DS, VHP, etc, even BJP - They just want to show their mark as a party in newly formed states.
Its really ridiculous, if any one supports anti-telangana, those are not allowed in Telanagana ??????????????? If people are like this even before dividing, imagine what would be after dividing ???? Great, super, awesome, fantastic......
US, UK, AUSTRALIA, CHINA, JAPAN, all are designing strategies for development and new ways to move ahead, we ourselves, destroying...
Proud to be Indian, but really feeling bad, Birds of same feathers are slapping each other, where shall we can carry the body of our bird, when feathers are not co-operating.
We are a team of 4 people(Knowledge Avenues) started a big project for the education development, Knowledge Networking, and recently it was lauded by HRD ministry and we are in research process with foreign univ, we are doing for education development, for whom we need to do ??????????? Now i feel we need to start networking for Politicians, boss here it is not developed, here it has developed like that.
Hyderabad ----- Children are Fighting ....
hope this would be my last post regarding this email chain....
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Lalith Kumar
Mob: +91 9885811774
http://awakening-indians.blogspot.com/
"Problems must not be our masters, but Problems should be one's Slaves"
Prasanthi Uppalapati
Dec 16, 2009, 2:37:59 PM12/16/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Lalith,
Request you to check the language before you post to the forum. When you attribute adjectives and generalize, it affects everyone and that is not the right thing to do.
Why should you rethink on your strategy on whom to help? How does and why should it bother? When we say it for everyone, let it be for everyone whether it is A or T.
Rakesh,
I feel I have some different thoughts to share on the points that you raised in one of the latest mails in this thread.
History:
Who are responsible for academi curriculum? How many of them are from Andhra? If all of them, for all these years, are from Andhra, we can think that they do not know this side of the history. Is there any attempt been made to include the stories of the struggle in our curriculum? If so, was it rejected solely because those are the stories from Telangana?
About Bathukamma Festival
Leave alone Bathukamma Festival, how many of us know about all our traditional festivals. We forgot about Atlatadiya and many such valuable ones. After all festivals are for uniting people again and some practises are for greater common good.
I have been here in Hyderabad for the past 6 years. No one invited me to attend the festival. Ok. If I do not participate voluntarily, why not I be invited? Every channel and daily covers news about this festival and it is being aired all over. In our curriculum, many things are not covered.
By the way, why should I show interest in this festival? This is my personal choice. By not attending or by not knowing about the festival, makes me a person who does not respect people from other regions or who has less tolerance or broad mind for others?
I have never been to US nor am I crazy about. In my Nellore itself, in my school days I visited Church and Dargah too. Not sure about Christmas but when it comes to Halloween may be people are more attracted towards the idea of transforming into something very different and donning different hats/roles. How many of us who are participating in those parties, talk ill abotu US? Does mere participation indicates respect towards other culture?
Kurnool being the first capital of Telugu Speaking People. What is wrong in it? It was the erstwhile Nizam state but not of Telugu-specific. When a state was declared specially for Telugu Speaking people, Kurnool was made the capital and so the mention. What is there to complain about it? On what basis Hyd has to be considered as the capital when they were not given any prominence even to talk in Telugu by the Nizam (I think as an official and second language too)? Telugu Speaking people are all over the world, if majority of people are in another place, can we claim that the capital of particular state is also of Telugus?
Ask students about leaders in AP, they cannot say. I for one honestly do not know many of them and if you ask me about the regions they belong to, I would go dumb. In the recent times, during 2nd October, 15th August and other National Holidays, media (both print and electronic) has been asking children about Gandhiji and most of the children are not able to answer properly.
Language being abused in movies. In that case, Seema was picturised as a land of factionists that I fear going to Cuddapah, Kurnool even today. Isn't that an assassination for them if people fear visiting their places? Directors, in the name of cultural freedom, forget about the responsibility on their part claiming that creativity has no limits. Who are not left without being abused in the movies? Women are shown as if they think only about Jewellery or Sarees or only for procreation and as mere dolls of beauty. Brahmin caste is one caste which is often picturised in poor taste. So there is no end to the cultural abuse. Everyone are equally at the receiving end. Often times it might be the people from the same place who does this.
I can understand that these are all the points you want to make in support of T state and all inclusive is the demand. I am not debating that ideology. I am only sharing my views on teh points expressed about culture and History.
I am not reading exclusively on this topic, so not sure if I read in this thread or from other sources:
1. Where were A people when people from Telangana are suffering all these years and only when the demand for a new state is born, we are hearing about togetherness.
What is it that was expected from us? If there is anything other than demanding a separate state, we can talk. Otherwise what is there to discuss? No room open for a dialogue, to work on the solutions. It takes two to tango. Politicians of both sides are equally responsible. If these people tried to lure, if they fell for it, then mistake is on both sides. So we cannot keep on complaining that you did this to us, that to us. Again beneficiaries are politicians. Even there are many places in Coastal and Seema regions that are backward. Backwardness is not due to unity but for many reasons.
Let us assume that entire Andhra folks are very indifferent so far. Let us assume or accept that we are bad so far, when we say we are more open now to listen to the problems, we are open to discuss and we are open to work on the complaints, are you (I mean not you but supporters of a separate state) in a mood to listen?
2. There are no marriages between Telangana and Andhra people.
Why should a marriage be shown as the expression of tolerance. This is not a true testimonial. That means we are tolerant only if we marry, that means you become my relative. Otherwise my views remain the same. I am tolerant only towards you or to your family but that does not extend to other people. Is this what we require?
When people look for matches, definitely they look for similarities and even in one place, coastal Andhra also, there are many a difference among the people. The point is whether we only look at differences and that to from a negative point of view and get divided or accept the differences and continue to live together. Which is the sign of tolerance? Which is the sign of true unity in diversity?
3. About Water
I do not want to give this example but to make a point. As united AP, we are not able to convince our neighbouring states for water, how come we, as two different states, get benefit from the current scenario or apathy from them?
(I am not for AP too in this regard. Natural resources should not be the property of one or two states, they should be the country's).
4. It is not we, in the cities, who know about the actual problems, but the people in villages.
Fine. How many of the Telangana villages are inhabited or dominated by people from Andhra? How many of them are directly affected by the Andhra Telugus?
5. Hyderabad is the icing on the cake and everyone fights for Hyderabad and it is not for AP or Telangana.
If our AP state has to be taken as example, even if Madras is not given to us, we have Hyderabad.for which we are fighting. So whoever loses Hyderabad, will have and can develop other crucial regions. So in what way Hyderabad alone is the single bone of contention?
If the properties at stake in Hyd are the reason, why not people express concern over it?
Separation from Tamilians is due to language, language based division. Just because of difference in slang and accent, should we need to divide?
So individually no point can stand a while as the reason, collectively, all put together, yes. But those reasons...... be worked upon or looked at as the basis for division or unity?
I am of the view that this is completely an emotional issue about the sentiments of some of the completely stubborn Telangana members. Not all members from Telangana share this view or demand of a separate state.
Even if we have to call a referendum, on what basis should we identify or classify the people? There are many people who belong to all the three regions of AP for different reasons. Can their voices also be heard?
United we Stand, Divided we Fall. There can be nothing like 'an End' to any situation. It is only in the willingness to.
I am not undermining the sacrifices of the people or the struggle. But other than emotional point of view, is there anything that is stopping us from achieving real development, a development in the true sense, by being united.
If the idea is to get divided, when is the time or scope to think of working together!!!
Suresh E
Dec 16, 2009, 8:28:54 PM12/16/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Just a small suggestion !!!
All members expressed their opinions/views/comments regarding this issue. Some were logical, some were emotional, some were rationale and so on so forth. I think the email discussions beyond a certain point and often can digress from the main topic of discussion.
May be all interested could have a face to face discussion and have a much more meaningful dialogue and bring this to some conclusion.
cheers
Suresh
I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still i can do something. I will not refuse to do something I can do .</font> ( Helen Keller )
http://www.sureshe.wordpress.com
http://www.indiatogether.com
http://www.jagore.com
http://www.aidindia.org
http://www.sureshe.wordpress.com
http://www.indiatogether.com
http://www.jagore.com
http://www.aidindia.org
--
Prasanthi Uppalapati
Dec 17, 2009, 12:03:03 AM12/17/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hi Suresh,
That would be a good idea. Not sure if that should be like a discussion or just to listen patiently to others and then come up with alternate viewpoints.
I personally feel that e-mail/letters are a good means of communication. Though the initial reactions would be impulsive, when we take time to read through, we get an opportunity to look at the views expressed both in support and against a topic. In case of personal meetings, we do not get an opportunity to recollect what all we shared when we think about it later.
Coming to this topic, yes, there are many mails and some of them ended up hurting others. Now, as the person who initiated the thread, I request everyone not to take the views as against persons.
To conclude this topic from my end, what I feel is:
1. Only when we belong to a place, we can understand, being completely in their shoes. Otherwise it would be very difficult. There is no way we can justify or understand certain views expressed.
3. Whether eventually T emerges or not, time will tell. What I wish is there should not be any loss of human lives; no more suicides, no more agitations.
2. I feel the problem was/is with the way the aspirations were/are handled. Without honoring or understanding the sentiments, mere opposition or mere playing with the feelings is the mistake. Now if we ask to get convinced, people will be in no mood to.
4. Let India be united despite many small states (if that becomes the eventuality and we are in for more chaos and confusion. May be in the history of India, this would be the 'Sandhi Kaalam' or a period of lull) and let there be a sense of Indian be inculcated in the entire country. Let us not fight with other states for water and resources.
5. Last but not the least, the responsibility is equally with us.
Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dec 17, 2009, 12:41:09 AM12/17/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
This will be my last email. I have a few observations to make and also a few remarks.
1. Inspite of repeated requests from me and others, some people on this forum have posted messages with all their explanation while at the same time agreeing that they are not aware of T history and the struggle. In my view, they are not qualified to take a stand either way. Being an RTI activist, i know how important information is in forming opinions. This is enshrined in article 19(1)(a) in our constitution.
"to freedom of speech and expression". You can express objectively only when you are informed. Sadly enough, people did not take pains to readup and started to resort to rhetoric and generalized statements. I am deeply disappointed with this behaviour.
2. @ Shiv: When i said self rule, i meant it. Our fight with the british way back in 1947 was about self rule and taking it into our hands. The so called Ideal party (LSP) talks of decentralized power structures where regions can rule themselves not being dependent on their masters. Lot of people are resorting to the rhetoric of India being United. Please note that telangana is not asking for a separate country but only a separate state. I am also deeply hurt by this generalized statement of yours which branded a majority section of this country. "The BPL people do not pay taxes"
This is the problem with the middleclass. We are all self righteous. Even the poorest of the poor in this country pays taxes in whatever form when they avail services or buy goods. Lets not romanticize the middle class as the only righteous people in the country.
3. @Prashanthi: I am disappointed about the way in which you conveniently,pickedup points to respond and not all issues. I never spoke of telangana language in movies or even about marriages. I am not sure why you responded to them in my name.
You wrote something that goes like this,
"I am of the view that this is completely an emotional issue about the sentiments of some of the completely stubborn Telangana members. Not all members from Telangana share this view or demand of a separate state.
1. Inspite of repeated requests from me and others, some people on this forum have posted messages with all their explanation while at the same time agreeing that they are not aware of T history and the struggle. In my view, they are not qualified to take a stand either way. Being an RTI activist, i know how important information is in forming opinions. This is enshrined in article 19(1)(a) in our constitution.
"to freedom of speech and expression". You can express objectively only when you are informed. Sadly enough, people did not take pains to readup and started to resort to rhetoric and generalized statements. I am deeply disappointed with this behaviour.
2. @ Shiv: When i said self rule, i meant it. Our fight with the british way back in 1947 was about self rule and taking it into our hands. The so called Ideal party (LSP) talks of decentralized power structures where regions can rule themselves not being dependent on their masters. Lot of people are resorting to the rhetoric of India being United. Please note that telangana is not asking for a separate country but only a separate state. I am also deeply hurt by this generalized statement of yours which branded a majority section of this country. "The BPL people do not pay taxes"
This is the problem with the middleclass. We are all self righteous. Even the poorest of the poor in this country pays taxes in whatever form when they avail services or buy goods. Lets not romanticize the middle class as the only righteous people in the country.
3. @Prashanthi: I am disappointed about the way in which you conveniently,pickedup points to respond and not all issues. I never spoke of telangana language in movies or even about marriages. I am not sure why you responded to them in my name.
You wrote something that goes like this,
"I am of the view that this is completely an emotional issue about the sentiments of some of the completely stubborn Telangana members. Not all members from Telangana share this view or demand of a separate state.
Even if we have to call a referendum, on what basis should we
identify or classify the people? There are many people who belong to
all the three regions of AP for different reasons. Can their
voices also be heard?"
Is it also true that the cry for United Andhra is also the handwork of some completely stubborn Andhra people. Not all members from Coastal Andhra or Rayalaseema share this view or standing for a United AP. I dont know if you intentionally ignored this or if its just a slip.
I am not undermining the intentions of the people in demanding a united state. But other than emotional point of view, is there anything that is stopping us from achieving real development, a development in the true sense, by being separate.
I am not undermining the intentions of the people in demanding a united state. But other than emotional point of view, is there anything that is stopping us from achieving real development, a development in the true sense, by being separate.
Sri
Dec 17, 2009, 1:34:51 AM12/17/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Prasanthi: If Lalit thinks strongly and expresses in his way, it is
upto him, For example if he feels I am an Idiot, so be it, it is upto
me to question him or prove that I am not an Idiot. That is his
opinion, and we should not ask him to change it, or refrain from
expressing it the way he feels it is. It does not be any different
just because he didn't say a word or very diplomatic, unless of
course, you say explicitly that certain words should not be used on
this forum, in that case I guess people can still use ****** or other
masks. This is supposed to be an open forum accepting / listening in
on every member's views.
upto him, For example if he feels I am an Idiot, so be it, it is upto
me to question him or prove that I am not an Idiot. That is his
opinion, and we should not ask him to change it, or refrain from
expressing it the way he feels it is. It does not be any different
just because he didn't say a word or very diplomatic, unless of
course, you say explicitly that certain words should not be used on
this forum, in that case I guess people can still use ****** or other
masks. This is supposed to be an open forum accepting / listening in
on every member's views.
Also, I thank you v much for the lengthy email addressing almost every
point you differed with Rakesh, I had intended to write something
similar, but wasn't getting the time.
Rakesh : You talk about self rule... self rule from whom? I thought we
are under self rule in India, and not under any foreign power, unless
you consider rest of India foreign.
I am tired of the innumerable videos, pictures and pathetic woes
expressed. When anyone shows me these, I would like to ask them, can
they show any other region in any part of our country where I cannot
reproduce the very same pictures? If you show me such starving
farmers, I can show the same in East Godavari, or Srikakulam as well.
There are homeless everywhere. You have asked about culture, how much
do you actually know about cultural practices in other parts of the
state or other parts of the country? We will know that we are exposed
to, and we will be exposed to that to which we are most close to. Just
because I do not know about the Bathukamma festival does not mean I'm
discriminating you. I don't know about the tribal practices followed
in the Araku Valley, nor did I ever watch the Dhimsa dance, leave
alone perform one. Am I neglecting that region? I have never traveled
to the nook and corner of the state, or my own district, does it make
me discriminatory? For that matter, do you know each and every aspect
of the history of our country? If you don't know, should you be called
a traitor? Maybe in State Board syllabus, you have lessons about A.P
culture, but I studied CBSE and information on A.P was minimal, so
since I do not know much about Andhra,Telangana or Rayalaseema, am I a
villain for A.P?
Before talking about culture, one should understand what is culture
and how it evolves, do you know that?
I don't intend to take it hard on you my friend, but your views seem
very negative. I was ok as long as you shared the links, I was going
through them whenever I could, but saying this was sidelined is
illogical.
Investments: People talk about vested interests and investments. It is
these very investments that has strengthened the state and city of
Hyderabad. And naturally, those who invested will be concerned. Today
I am in two minds about investing in Hyderabad, who knows what may
happen tomorrow?
Movies: Like Prasanthi stated, stereotypes have been formed in the
movies base don mass appeal, not to sideline a section or region. And
the Film industry includes people from all regions. School Principals
and Teachers are projected as being stupid or foolish and easily taken
for rides by students. Do they show which region the Principal belongs
to? Does it bring down the value and respect these Gurus have in the
real world? Andhra people have been shown to speak a very peculiar
slang, esp. if one says they are from E.G Dt., is that to be taken as
an insult?
There are many more points I could raise, but this is getting a bit
too much for me. The views would not change. I am neither for, or
against Telangana. I don't know the complete history of it. Maybe a
gentleman's agreement was made decades ago, but we have been living
together. Maybe Pt.Nehru made a strong statement long back, but we
have to look at things in the current perspective. I'm sure many
people from Telangana itself are not for a seperate state. I have few
friends whoa re passionate about telangana, and who are here in the
U.S. I asked them one question ; What did you do for developing your
region? They do not have an answer. They cite random, minimal,
selfish acts of kindness, which in my opinion do not count.I ask you
the same question. I also have been asking : Other than the demand for
a separate state, what specific development programme that you people
from Telangana have been fighting for, that has not been achieved? As
a Strategist myself, I don't see any clear cut strategy other than the
fact that it is Power and wealth. If people from this region could not
do anything when their leaders were exploiting them, what can they do
when tomorrow the same leaders become more powerful?
Like some others mentioned, it is emotional and seems a directionless
move. People who are asking about a separate state do not have the
answers on how to solve the regions problems, say it will take time,
or in time it will solve itself, but there is no specific plan or
solution. I know some people who are most happy... one guy who I know
said ' I have a direct line to Harish now' . Power Hungry Politician
licker that he is, he won't care whatever happens, but a new state
means money for him, hence he sends in money for the cause.
I started with being neutral on this issue as a person who doesn't
know anything, as someone who is neither for nor against, and your
arguments have not done much for me to think it is a rational move. It
looks more like the blind leading the blind, and blinding everyone who
questions the rational. Do not be defensive or offensive, be rational
and present a justifiable reason and solution.
You are talking about recent history, but since ages, we have been
together, ruled by a single King or Emperor.
The same struggle being done for a separate state, why cant the same
commitment and struggle be carried out for development?
You keep talking about Jobs. Are not jobs supposed to be competed? Why
should any job be handed out to a specific 'people'? Why can they not
compete like the rest of the job holders? For someone who is for merit
in everything, I don't understand what you mean by saying the jobs are
being taken by Andhra people. I believe these are all open
opportunities. You wnat your neigbours to fight for you, and you wnat
your neighbours not to compete for your jobs? If you cannot stand
competition, do you eliminate competition by driving them away? That
is not a healthy economic practice.
I think almost everyone gave their opinion on this topic, either,
for , against, neutral, or seeking a reason like me.
On a sidenote, today I had taken two of my American friends to a
temple here. I took them to an amazing temple in the suburbs called
the BAPS Swaminarayan Temple.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=103793&id=675147694&l=b74391ad22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAPS_Shri_Swaminarayan_Mandir_Chicago
I was really proud to show them the temple and share my culture and
heritage with them. Inside the temple, there was a Map of India and I
showed it to them and pointed to a spot where Hyderabad is likely to
be and said 'This is where I come from' One of my friend didn't know
anything, she just said 'wow' The other friend, read up on me, so she
asked me' So you are from the south and is this not the place where
people are fighting about a separate state? I believe there is a lot
of fighting going on.I could not give her any reply 9How she knew? She
has been reading up on this in the local India News Magazine). BTW,
When I showed her the spot on the map, I showed a spot where Hyderabad
would be, not where my native town in Coastal Andhra is. That shows
how much I consider myself a part of where I was last. I did not
consider myself an Alien in my own country, but slowly these
accusations and rantings are making me feel as if I don't belong to
Hyderabad.
May sense and Peace prevail. May we learn from our past mistakes. I
don't think I'm going to follow on this discussion any more.
SS
On Dec 16, 1:37 pm, Prasanthi Uppalapati
harish peddi
Dec 17, 2009, 2:53:54 AM12/17/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com, Rakesh Reddy Dubbudu
Dear Birds,
We kept on asking each member of the group to be objective in their discussion right from the first mail of this thread. Couple of the mails posted in the recent past were extremely offensive and derogatory. This is not supposed to be the way we write mails.
If we cannot respect the fellow members of the group, we are no-way different from those cheap politicians.
I am not sure what we have gained having this discussion in this group but we lost one prominent and most respected members of the group.
I would strongly say NO to this discussion anymore in this group.
Regards
Harish
harish reddy
Dec 17, 2009, 5:32:56 AM12/17/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Inspite of repeated requests this discussion is being continued.So no use of making one more request harish peddi.Consequences will be loosing of members like rakesh or some one else.Everyone is imp here in terms of service(actual reason of groups coming together in a platform like bosf)
From this I am not sure whether anyone understood about the T-demand from this discussion.
Expect few posts most of the posts were irelavent and some are offensive and derogatory. .
Now we will see few more long mails but no end for this discussion.Explanations comes why a discussion should happen and there will be no end. And so on....And so on.... And And so on.......One cannot stop this, as we are in democrarcy.
Thanks,
Harish
Venkat Pulagam
Dec 17, 2009, 8:59:18 AM12/17/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
Everyone has their own opinions for whatever reason there might be on any issue. A discussion is always encouraged until there are no personal remarks on the members.
I might feel that a post might be irrelavent but the other member might not feel the same. So no point attacking a member personally, try to put across your point of view. Rest is upto the other member to accept your point of view or counter react on it. Just because a member differs or counter reacts on your opinion on an issue doesn't mean that he/she is attacking you personally.My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. -
Ashleigh Brilliant Venkat Pulagam Venkat Plaza 6-3-883/5, Panjagutta
Hyderabad, India 500082 040 23418011 9866922779
Everyone has their own opinions for whatever reason there might be on any issue. A discussion is always encouraged until there are no personal remarks on the members.
I might feel that a post might be irrelavent but the other member might not feel the same. So no point attacking a member personally, try to put across your point of view. Rest is upto the other member to accept your point of view or counter react on it. Just because a member differs or counter reacts on your opinion on an issue doesn't mean that he/she is attacking you personally.
Ashleigh Brilliant Venkat Pulagam Venkat Plaza 6-3-883/5, Panjagutta
Hyderabad, India 500082 040 23418011 9866922779
ManiKanth - ARROW
Dec 19, 2009, 8:26:51 AM12/19/09
to birdsofsamefeathers
Hello friends,
I didn't expect before 10 days that I would participate in this
discussions / debate, as I was doubtful about the possibility of
unwanted tension between the members. Iam sad that my doubt turned
into reality, but recently I found some information worth noticing and
I wish to share with all of you. but before that I want to make
certain things clear -
In this Telangana or samaikhya andhra issue, one need not take the
things personally. If few andhra leaders are responsible for some
injustice towards Telangana, it doesn't mean that one should hate all
andhra people and people belonging to andhra region need not take it
personally whenever there is a reference to andhra. You and I are in
no way involved or responsible for what happened or is happening in
this issue. So, where comes the blame game and abusing ??? Why do
people become personal and start offending or defending ??
I found similar biased thinking in linking terrorism and religion. You
all might be aware of western countries doubting every muslim as
terrorist, just because most of the terrorists found these days are
followers of islam. Many terorrists may be muslims practically, but it
doesn't mean all muslims are terrorists. There are many sincere,
partiotic muslims in Indian army, navy, air force and state police.
( plz do not debate on terrorism vs islam topic, as it was just an
example and I don't intend to support or blame any side there ) Same
goes with Telangana and andhra. Every person demanding Telangana is
not an enemy of andhra people and region. Even every andhra person who
wants samaikhya andhra is not a culprit of telangana. First lets leave
that prejudice and think as an individual. Lets forget where we are
from, lets approach it like a case study. This is the issue and I
found so and so evidences supporting certain stand. If someone has
contrary reports it can be expressed and shared. It would be a
productive discussion and "constructive criticism" which would help us
to think in a broader perspective and learn new things. We are at
present come down to "destructive criticism" which would not only
hurt/ damage the feelings of opponents but also would lead to our
moral downfall.
Let me first clear away certain distractions or diversions from this
topic.
* Some people said small states would be better. Others said small
states make us weak. There are many small states which are efficient
and many big states in a worse situation or vice versa. Telangana
struggle is not for a smaller state in actual terms. so, change in
size of state is not a criteria for judging the issue and it's a
relative concept not an absolute concept. So, I think its better not
to take size of the state in to consideration.
* how many people really need telangana or want to stay united is also
irrelevant upto certain extent. bcoz majority of people in India are
illiterate and do not know what's good for them and what's not, the
proof is the winning of several criminals and scamsters in every
election. So, lets put it aside for some time.
* Backwardness in Telanaga areas is also not a strong reason to
support the struggle, as there are many backward areas in andhra and
seema too. What matters is in what way injustice is done to Telangana?
How did joining with andhra affected Telangana? If these two questions
can be answered, Iam sure the other side would not have reasons to
state for a United Andhra ! Its different that how they would develop
after separation. First we need to decide whether the demand to get
separated is genuine or not. If no, case closed. If yes, its upto the
new state to develop themselves. so, lets leave away how telangana
would develop after separation, as there is no answer how telangana
would develop even under united andhra.
* most importantly, knowing festivals of an area, showing in movies,
investing in an area for its development have sidelined the topic. We
first need to discuss if there is a need for telangana or not? How the
movement is being carried out now, what politicianns or students are
doing cannot be used a weapon to counter against the demand for a
separate state. Let us first think WHY WE NEED TELANGANA ? or WHY WE
WANT UNITED ANDHRA?
* Separation of state means separating the administrative and
political setup of the state. So, some politicians would lose the
power which they exercised over whole AP and few other would get power
in Telangana, which was not possible earlier. Its not that andhra
people would be sent out of telangana or thier business closed down
and jobs scrapped etc. Indian constitution gives every Indian citizen
a right to live, work and settle in any state of Indian republic. so,
do not see each other as enemies. infact, separation would affect
people like us (city dwellers / employees) the least. It matters
mainly to the political setup and that's the reason they are at the
front leading the struggles. Students are just used by the politicians
of both sides for the reasons best known to them.
Broadly speaking, there are 2 sub heads in this actual issue :
1. Why Telangana needs sepearation? what is the problem or loss in
being united ??
2. Why we need to stay together? what's the problem if Telangana gets
separated ??
If all of us provide information related to the above 2 questions, it
would be a productive discussion. Usually people think from a
particular perspective and this discussion would give a chance to
share the other's point of view and know some unknown facts or
information. We would strengthen point one or two by facts and info.
Once we weigh the answers of above 2 questions, it would quite clear
to everyone whether Telangana needs separation or not ! May be if both
sides are equal, we would end up as "tie" but would have learnt lot of
things that are genuine on others side too. Iam willing to share some
info supporting one of the point on above TWO questions. Can someone
share the actual reason for the Telangana struggle and can anyone show
what is the practical problem with a divided state? (forget emotions,
sentiments and diversions mentioned above, any concrete reasons or
facts to support either of them ). Those who all contributed earlier,
can u plz reply once with facts and info as discussed above leaving
away the distractions and biased thoughts. If u have no concrete
statements supporting ur stand, plz care to mention it as it would
encourage all to have a healthy and transparent discussion.
Finally, let us be like an audience in the stadium during discussion,
rather than boxers in the ring :-) One may say that the issue is
related to us and how can we be disconnected or neutral. I wonder when
we are mere spectators in front of TVs and do nothing for or against
the cause in real world, how far is it reasonable to take sides
virtually and start fighting or becoming personal. I request all the
earlier participants of this discussion to ponder over the points and
let me know if Iam wrong anywhere ( politely if possible). Thanks for
ur patience and concern.
Regards,
Manikanth.P.
CARPED
Dec 19, 2009, 2:41:39 PM12/19/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
I totally agree with Manikanth.
i am also reading the mails on this. I was about to write and request all the members for a discussion (writing & reading) with positive mind, i also understand why people take the sides of the region they belong to.
there may be few or large number of people and politicians from all the regions in favour of separation and for United AP.
few interesting points raised by the members, saying that, " if somebody lives in US for 12 years, he is given a green card, we have been living in hyderabad for such a long time and how can we leave the place ", nobody is asking anybody to leave the place and if we are living here, then we also belong to the place and should avail the benefits and also be in favour and interest of the place and contribute for the development of the place we live in."
many members have written so much about "why separation" and "why samaikhya andhra". i would like to mention that, telanganites have been demanding for separation for 50 years, all political parties have agreed to that and resolved for separation. i still dont like to mention if that was genuine and required. can we say that people and leaders of 3 regions were ignorant of the manifesto, if so why should we bother for it, which was not opposed by the people and politicians then, there should have been similar opposition across the state then, if people wanted to stay united geographically.
i dont believe in baseless and biased arguements straining the relations, atleast not in such a group/forum like this. Now, there are more mails on this topic than of development issues. as our friend said, seperation or no separation makes no difference to the people like us, what do we lose if separated and what have we gained in united AP.
i know people agitate to get separated but cannot force the other to stay united, people cannot live together in 'bandhs'. what stops us from being united. if separation stops us, can we stop seperation or see people united. if somebody wants to stay together, create an atmosphere where the other wants to join. good example is our friend who unsubscribed, we are not forcing him to subscribe again, but we are requesting him to continue to be the member as he is a good person and contributed a lot. let us not lose friends, atleast of this forum
so what can we do to keep people united irespective of separation and think of possibilities of development of the place we belong to and Telugu speaking states (if separated). let's respect each other and contribute for collective welfare, demonstrate concern to be with each other in times of joy and hardships and give up greed and treachery that made living together unpleasant. Let us grow beyond regional boundaries to pull down these walls that became inevitable- wall that is within and sooner or later going to be erected outside. if Berlin wall can be pulled down, let's hope walls by separation can also be pulled down, we will also wait for some time, if not 50 years like Telangana people.
i have tried my best not to hurt anybody's feelings or sentiments and sorry if I have hurt anybody unintentionally, anywhere in the discussion.
m.subhash chandra
2009/12/19 ManiKanth - ARROW <rahult...@gmail.com>
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Prasanthi Uppalapati
Dec 20, 2009, 2:07:47 PM12/20/09
to birdsofsa...@googlegroups.com
Dear Friends,
As the moderator of the forum and the initiator of this thread, I express my apologies to everyone in this thread who got hurt or whose feelings were wounded.
Request you all to understand that this thread is started with sincere notion. All members who participated in this discussion shared their views. No one, literally no one, sent mails with any ill feeling or a motto to hurt others.
Whoever got hurt, felt bad or felt certain statements are derogatory, I request them to state openly that so and so were in poor taste. That way others also can understand where they went wrong or why something has been taken in a particular way or sounded different. I am saying this as I have complete confidence and trust on each member of this forum. We are open to learn, we are open to admit mistakes. I take this opportunity to request everyone to try to forgive as well, if they got hurt.
I agree that this is a forum for service. At the same time, I wish this to be a forum open for discussion, open to look at things from all angles. Let us not take back ourselves to discuss sensitive issues. Let us be sensitive and sensible in responses. That would be fine. If at all anyone violates, let us tell them that so and so was not good and not expected. Look at this forum beyond members and time. Our wish is to make collective work as a practise.... be it in sharing information, working together or mere discussion.
Let us take this thread as a lesson and let us not talk individually. Let us take one particular hat, let us everyone talk about it only. This way may be our discussions would be fruitful and the learning would be useful.
Manikanth,
As per your suggestion, this is my answer.
I started this thread with a 'no idea' notion with a slight bent towards united AP. So I will try to answer the question ........Why we should be united?
My answer to this is completely sentiment based. I, for one, liked the idea of dividing states based on language. If we go to other states or countries, language is the first one we identify with and feel happy for. (The question of and the joke about telugus' reluctance to speak in telugu with the fellow telugu people whether here in India or abroad ..... is another point for debate though!!)
I never think of my fellow telugu person as from which place he/she belongs to. The thought never comes. That is only a matter of record, per say. That is why I was/is a bit against the idea of separation. I am not very much into the economics dynamics.
I tried to understand if there are any basic guidelines that are considered to when forming new states. I didn't find proper information. Whatever I got (or rather understood) on looking for SRA or SRC is only about linguistic division. Also about the hints that the aspirations of the people to be given priority. I haven't read about the emergence of other states.
What I felt after reading the views, opinions and other information is that, there is a strong emotional divide which we never took notice of. There is a sense of mistrust which has been carried over for the years for the claimed reasons. People from both sides are emotional on the issue but never tried to understand why the other side is so emotional. I am not talking about the people who came out for selfish reasons. I am only talking about the people who genuinely came out either to support or oppose and in that sense I am using the word, emotional.
Whatever the govt. decides, our responsibility is to clear this divide. We need to read the History for sure. This is to not to repeat the mistakes of us and others too. We can learn from others' mistakes as well. Let us take the other side into confidence. Whatever be the History, the present situation of the state is bad on the whole. If we want to win over others and prove our points, try to explain from our angle, we should talk with the other side. Not with the ones who are of the same opinion as us.
Injustice done to anyone is injustice. It is not of less importance if the other side are the sufferers. Definitely not.
Coming to what can we do about this, in what way are we related and what is that we can achieve... we can definitely try to stop others, whoever it may be, if they talk in the 'Tu, tu.. mein, mein' model. If I come across a person who does not support the separation of the state, I will try to share what all I read as the injustice meted out to the supporters and what would they (who oppose) do if they stand in their shoes. If I come across a person who promotes the separation of the state, I will try to convince that not the entire Andhra state and the people are culprits and whoever actually and wantedly exploited are very few. Though it may sound rhetoric, try to consider if we can work out these differences, mistrust and can fight the corrupt politicians collectively. Can we convince the students from Andhra region and show them the facts and take them into confidence and bring about any change?
If students have taken the movement into their hands (to show that politicians cannot use them any more), why not they take it further? Why not students from all Universities collectively fight the corrupt? Why not we implement whatever the agreements that were not considered?
May sound too ideal. But we can definitely give it a try. From my end, I will do whatever I mentioned that I will.
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