Family Finder DNA match for Terceira

[pi...@dholmes.com]

Hi Sandra,

I haven't checked for a while and was pleased to log in and find three new matches from the past week for my father's Family Finder test. I didn't yet see if I also match them.

One match is your BERBEREA. I haven't looked at your Terceira ancestry for many years, so it was nice to see we found a connection.

I found three connections, and probably more, but the closest is Sebastião Fernandes Borges, who was born about 400 years ago. My father and your Berberea tested are 7th cousins, twice removed. It takes my father two more generations to reach that ancestor, who happens to be the ancestor of probably all with Altares ancestry, but I didn't investigate that assumption yet.

We might have a slightly closer, or maybe the same degree connection with one of the many lines from Ribeirinha, Terceira, but as you know, the records of the 1600s there are either lost or have many gaps and it will take more research to find any confirmation.

Another line is Toledo, but it's even more remote - an 8th or 9th cousin.

If there is any closer connection, it could come from one of the many Biscoitos lines I haven't pushed back any further yet. I have them into the middle 1700s. Maybe one came from elsewhere and we could link up that way - or not. I will have to see if you show more on your gedcom and get back to you.

Since 6th cousin is the closest FTDNA shows, I am going to propose that. I didn't yet look at your gedcom to see if you even are aware of these ancestors - you probably are, since David Bertao did a terrific job doing your genealogy years ago.

While on the subject of BERBEREIA, I wonder if there is a living male descendant who could get the Y-DNA test, since that is a very interesting Berber family and I would love to see what shows up as to the haplogroup.

I have two more matches to investigate now...

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

[rondo ranch]

I'm not sure if you are interested in my Berbereia lineage but I have several living males from the Berbereia lineage of Altares and Raminho, Terceira.  One has already tested.... Contact me outside the group at ro...@lightspeed.net   Doreen

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[Sandra Valine Dauer]

 Doug and Doreen

Yesterday I received the Family Finder results and amazed on how many new matches I have received , including both of you.  I have not begin to dug into the connections.  My Berberea side in America is very slim, as my grandfather was the only one from his siblings  immigrated to America (several went to Brazil).  My Mom only had one brother and he had two children, both males.   On my bucket list is to have my cousin Denis have his YDNA test taken.  This is so interesting. 

 

[pi...@dholmes.com]

Yes, that will be interesting.

Luckily you do have a maternal uncle and even two male cousins.

I looked at your gedcom and see you don't know about the ancestors I mentioned.

I did more research last night on your Biscoitos lines and found a couple of them, just to confirm we are not related through them. I still have a few more from that area to rule out.

Cheri always tells us the Family Finder test shows about 200 years back, but I keep repeating that for the Azores, I think it's way more, like 400-500 years. Because I know the vast majority of your ancestry back into the 1600s, if not the 1500s and I show just the three mentioned ancestors we share. And the CLOSEST was born 400 years ago. There is no other conclusion than what I keep saying - 400+ years for the Azores.

I realize it's the people at FTDNA that make these estimates and Cheri is just reporting what they tell her.

If I could, I would like to have them change or modify these estimated relations. What they said for us is about twice as close as reality.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

[Pam Santos]

Well I got my sons back and I havent seen that he matches too anyone on the azores group hmm

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[pi...@dholmes.com]

Does he match anyone with Portuguese ancestry?

It's no surprise there is a shortage of matches, since testing on someone 75 or older would show more matches, in general, if they have a higher percentage of pure Portuguese DNA.

In fact, I was surprised that of the four latest matches for my father, I got three of them to match me. Sandra and I match, as well as another list member. And I match a Pimentel who might also be on the list, but this last is not likely going to be possible to prove when they have so little research done and will have to go back 400 years.

[Pam Santos]

Yes I think, its hard to tell because that person has New Mexico ancestry and on my side is New Mexico. The person has Flores, Azores ancestry

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[Pam Santos]

Odd There is ALOT of matches on my mothers New Mexico ancestry on my sons matches though. But then some matches on names I have no idea

[pi...@dholmes.com]

Hi Doreen,

I just became a lot more interested.

I was going only from memory on Sandra's Berbereia line. But when I went to check the Raminho and Altares Berbereia families, I realized they don't connect with Sandra's line that comes from Biscoitos, next door to Altares. I never really noticed there are two lines.

So getting one person from each line to get the Y-DNA test should show a perfect match and the connection would be in the early 1500s, way beyond the records.

It seems it is normal for all sons of a Berbereia kept using the Berbereia surname. We all know that isn't the case for other surnames, in general. My Rocha name zig-zags from maternal to paternal and back to maternal several times. But that's not the case for Berbereia. So Doreen's line and Sandra's line might each have to test out to the 67 marker level, not sure about that. They would likely show a perfect 37 marker match. I'm still learning how that works. But the pool of male Berbereia candidates is probably pretty large when they follow this type of naming tradition in that family.

And if they don't match, it probably means Berbereia came from a maternal line very early on.

I wonder if anyone interested in this was lucky enough to purchase and receive a copy of the Terceira genealogies by Mendes and Forjaz, because I would like to know if they have a chapter on Berbereia (it would be very surprising if they didn't) and what do they say about the first couple generations.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder DNA match for Terceira

From: rondo ranch <ro...@lightspeed.net>
Date: Wed, June 19, 2013 6:48 am
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

I'm not sure if you are interested in my Berbereia lineage but I have several living males from the Berbereia lineage of Altares and Raminho, Terceira.  One has already tested.... Contact me outside the group at ro...@lightspeed.net   Doreen

-----Original Message-----
From: pi...@dholmes.com
Sent: Jun 19, 2013 12:11 AM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Sandra Dauer
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder DNA match for Terceira

Hi Sandra,

I haven't checked for a while and was pleased to log in and find three new matches from the past week for my father's Family Finder test. I didn't yet see if I also match them.

One match is your BERBEREA. I haven't looked at your Terceira ancestry for many years, so it was nice to see we found a connection.

I found three connections, and probably more, but the closest is Sebastião Fernandes Borges, who was born about 400 years ago. My father and your Berberea tested are 7th cousins, twice removed. It takes my father two more generations to reach that ancestor, who happens to be the ancestor of probably all with Altares ancestry, but I didn't investigate that assumption yet.

We might have a slightly closer, or maybe the same degree connection with one of the many lines from Ribeirinha, Terceira, but as you know, the records of the 1600s there are either lost or have many gaps and it will take more research to find any confirmation.

Another line is Toledo, but it's even more remote - an 8th or 9th cousin.

If there is any closer connection, it could come from one of the many Biscoitos lines I haven't pushed back any further yet. I have them into the middle 1700s. Maybe one came from elsewhere and we could link up that way - or not. I will have to see if you show more on your gedcom and get back to you.

Since 6th cousin is the closest FTDNA shows, I am going to propose that. I didn't yet look at your gedcom to see if you even are aware of these ancestors - you probably are, since David Bertao did a terrific job doing your genealogy years ago.

While on the subject of BERBEREIA, I wonder if there is a living male descendant who could get the Y-DNA test, since that is a very interesting Berber family and I would love to see what shows up as to the haplogroup.

I have two more matches to investigate now...

[pi...@dholmes.com]

That seems to be what's happening to me on my mother's side (not Portuguese). I have a lot of matches, but almost nobody has done any research. And if the 200 year mark is not really that valid for other areas, maybe they will need to revise it to 300-400 years for other countries, too.

I look at my mother's side as practically impossible to connect to anyone. So it makes me appreciate the resources we have for Portugal and the ability to connect with a very high percentage and also document it.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder DNA match for Terceira

From: Pam Santos <pamsa...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, June 19, 2013 8:35 pm
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Odd There is ALOT of matches on my mothers New Mexico ancestry on my sons matches though. But then some matches on names I have no idea

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:33 PM, Pam Santos <pamsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I think, its hard to tell because that person has New Mexico ancestry and on my side is New Mexico. The person has Flores, Azores ancestry

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:29 PM, <pi...@dholmes.com> wrote:

Does he match anyone with Portuguese ancestry?

It's no surprise there is a shortage of matches, since testing on someone 75 or older would show more matches, in general, if they have a higher percentage of pure Portuguese DNA.

In fact, I was surprised that of the four latest matches for my father, I got three of them to match me. Sandra and I match, as well as another list member. And I match a Pimentel who might also be on the list, but this last is not likely going to be possible to prove when they have so little research done and will have to go back 400 years.

[Pam Santos]

Well I have my moms side back to 1500 so New Mexico is a melting pot, kind of how the Azores everyone is eventually related, that is how New Mexico is. There were only a certain number of families that inter married. I have my Father's side his mom's back. But his Fathers, Father only to 1830 in Ireland and that maybe where all these names are popping up that I have no clue. But their is missing church records in Roscommon Co, Ireland for that 1830 time frame. I know his father 's name but not the mother. Then there is a LANE researcher who we believe we were related his relatives and mine lived next door. Now he has done the National Geographics and his Ydna 111 plus every other possible test. He says in 1750 our Lanes immigrated to Ireland. now why doesn't he show up as a match to the Lane male I had tested? Is there something he knows that I don't? (regarding the DNA)

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[rondo ranch]

On the way to California, my Grandfather (Antonio Coelho Berbereia de Ormonde of Raminho, Terceira) stopped in Brazil to visit with relatives. No one ever got the name of the the relatives I know that I have DNA matches in Brazil.  I have not ben able to make the connection.  doreen

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra Valine Dauer
Sent: Jun 19, 2013 10:17 AM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Family Finder DNA match for Terceira

 Doug and Doreen

Yesterday I received the Family Finder results and amazed on how many new matches I have received , including both of you.  I have not begin to dug into the connections.  My Berberea side in America is very slim, as my grandfather was the only one from his siblings  immigrated to America (several went to Brazil).  My Mom only had one brother and he had two children, both males.   On my bucket list is to have my cousin Denis have his YDNA test taken.  This is so interesting.