Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Minta surname from Flores Island - derivation?

[John Vasconcelos]

Steve,
I have been manually searching for a Manuel Minta in the Flores Marriages book with no luck thus far. Do you have any documentation as to which Parish any of these events took place The book is tabulated by parishes of which there are 10 on the Island so each parish has to be searched individually so it's a long processes.

Are you absolutely sure of the spelling? Could it be a nickname (alcunha)? Any other information which may shed light on this family would be helpful
Regards,
John Vasconcelos
(Both parents from Flores)

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 9:29 AM, badger <woodro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Family lore and much research has led us to a dead end on the origin of the Minta name from the Azores.

We'd sure appreciate some pointers.

Our oldest known relative with best information is:

Manuel Minta

Birth: 17 Jan 1828 in Flores Island, Azores
Immigration: abt 1852 to California
Marriage: bef 1872 to Philomena R Thomas (or Joseph), likely Flores Island
Residence: 1880 to death in Oakley/Antoch area, Contra Costa County, CA
Death: Jun 1918 in Contra Costa County, California, USA

Scarce Information on his brother and sister:
Mathew Minta, birth abt 1840, likely Azores; 1880 in Contra Costa County
Mary Minta, birth abt 1852, likely Azores; 1910 in Contra Costa county

Details at Ancestry.com: Minta Family Tree

Another source (different birth date):
Greg Small's Genealogy - Manuel Minta

Thanks from his great grandson,
Steve

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[eric edgar]

Steve, 

I have also looked through the Familias da Ilha das Flores,Vila da Lajes,  and the History of Flores and Corvo books and not seen this name. All the online records for Minta as a Portuguese surname all relate to this family staring with Manuel Minta b 1828. 

I'm going to guess that name derives from how the original name sounded to other passengers or settlers. It may be Mota, or possibly shortened from Sarmento or Nascimento.

If I look at the wife's family, It shows Philomena R Thomas, which on the MInta family tree at Ancestry show her parents as Jose Thomas Carneiro and Maria Isabel. It is also stated that she used the surname Joseph on several documents. The 1880 census shows a Joseph family next door. Might be worth pursueing some information on them. There is another tree that suggests that Philomena was a sister or sister in law  to Joao Thomas Renas also from Flores that settled in Conta Costa .

Eric Edgar

[John Vasconcelos]

I concur with what Eric said. Any one of those scenarios may have taken place. Another possibility is that they may have been married here in the US. You state that the marriage took place "probably Flores". There have been many cases of Azores Islanders having sent money home to his childhood sweet heart to pay her way over to the US after which they were married here. Have you checked Contra Costa records for their marriage? Have you tried looking for them in parish records of where they may have gone to church (Assuming they were practicing Catholics , If you have not already researched these).
Did Manuel or any of the family members belong to any Portuguese lodge or Fraternal organization. They often have good records of their members' family and island connections.
Good Luck
John Vasconcelos.

[John Vasconcelos]

Steve,
Between your family stories and Eric's observations I would surmise that it was probably a simplification of a more complex name (which immigration officials as well as individual immigrants have been known to do) . I need to sleep on it for a while, but it's an intreaguing puzzle.
Regards,
John
BTW, where are you located?

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Steve <woodro...@gmail.com> wrote:

John,

The only documents I have state nothing more than Island of Flores.

Minta family members have long suggested that it was complex name simplified upon immigration. The first appearance of Manuel Minta (and brother Mathew) has it spelled as Menta in the 1880 US Census, but always Minta thereafter except for a few typos in phone directories (Minto). In all family memories and documents it was never anything but Minta.

Manuel Minta has been lionized in our family stories, probably because he was a lively character, perhaps a bit of a swashbuckler. We think he confused facts later in life.

For example, this brief obituary seems to be a series of discrepancies when compared to facts and inferences from our family tree.

Contra Costa Gazette, 15 Jun 1918:

"Dies at Age of 100 Years [headline]

    Manuel Minta, one of the best known pioneer residents of Contra Costa and Alameda counties, died at his home in Oakland this week at the age of 100 years. At the advanced age which few humans reach, he was hale and hearty up to within a few weeks of his death. Three daughters and five sons mourn the death of their aged parent."


------ Notes ------

Aunt Mary also says 100 years of age, but we're going with US Census data, which has him 90 to 92 years of age at death.

It's hard to understand how the Contra Costa Gazette could have confounded Oakland with Oakley. We have no records of where he died but he was living in Antioch/Oakley in 1910 at age 82. We've always assumed he is buried there at Holy Cross Cemetery, Antioch, in the Minta Plot with his wife and 2 children, but there is no individual marker for him.

We know of only 3 daughters and 3 sons, although there may have been early deaths that were never recorded. Nevertheless the obit actually implies 3 daughters and 5 sons are alive, but that could be a turn of phrase.

Steve

[Margaret Vicente]

Hi Steve,

I found a Manuel born in Santa Cruz, Flores on 17 Jan 1828 and it may interest you to have a look.  Parents are Manuel Pimentel Ramos and Maria de Jesus, here's the link.

http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1826-1841/FLR-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1826-1841_item1/P35.html

Margaret Vicente

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:29 PM, badger <woodro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Family lore and much research has led us to a dead end on the origin of the Minta name from the Azores.

We'd sure appreciate some pointers.

Our oldest known relative with best information is:

Manuel Minta

Birth: 17 Jan 1828 in Flores Island, Azores
Immigration: abt 1852 to California
Marriage: bef 1872 to Philomena R Thomas (or Joseph), likely Flores Island
Residence: 1880 to death in Oakley/Antoch area, Contra Costa County, CA
Death: Jun 1918 in Contra Costa County, California, USA

Scarce Information on his brother and sister:
Mathew Minta, birth abt 1840, likely Azores; 1880 in Contra Costa County
Mary Minta, birth abt 1852, likely Azores; 1910 in Contra Costa county

Details at Ancestry.com: Minta Family Tree

Another source (different birth date):
Greg Small's Genealogy - Manuel Minta

Thanks from his great grandson,
Steve

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Margaret M Vicente

[eric edgar]

Steve, 

Here's something to consider:

This ship list is easily found at Ancestry. It has a Thos Mento, a few Philomena's, one in Jose family group.  two John Joze's ,  I also has Joze Carvalho Noia, one of the earliest settlers in the Oakley area. They have the women and men 

listed separately, so it's hard to figure the family groups.

The Francisco Antonio Noia listed was one of the earliest settlers in the Hayward area. 

The Domingo Antonio Coelho listed is my great great grandfather

Eric Edgar

SS Dominique, Flores to Boston 7 Aug 1866

Columns Represent: Name, Age, Gender, and Occupation

  1  John Tevshara              18      m      farmer

  2  Manuel Semmas              16      m      farmer

  3  Jose Silveira Souza        18      m      farmer

  4  Andreu Perreira            17      m      farmer

  5  Alex. Joze                 18      m      farmer

  6  John de Quadnas            82      m      farmer

  7  Joze de Quadnas            18      m      farmer

  8  Manuel Francisco           18      m      farmer

  9  Antonio S. Perreira        19      m      farmer

 10  Antonio F. Silveira        29      m      farmer

 11  Francisco Silveira         20      m      farmer

 12  Joachim Courior            20      m      farmer

 13  Joze S. Betancourt         19      m      farmer

 14  Antonio S. Betancourt      18      m      farmer

 15  Francisco Forestinen       20      m      farmer

 16  Manuel S. Leonard          17      m      farmer

 17  Antonio de Matras          17      m      farmer

 18  Joze S. M. Betancourt      30      m      farmer

 19  Manuel V. Silveira         18      m      farmer

 20  Joao Battista              20      m      farmer

 21  Francisco S. Betancourt    18      m      farmer

 22  Eelosme Joachim            25      m      farmer

 23  John Joze                  10      m      farmer

 24  Son Juan                    4      m      farmer

 25  Joze Machado               16      m      farmer

 26  Joze Antonio Moreno        17      m      farmer

 27  Francisco Rosario          16      m      farmer

 28  Antonio Luiz               25      m      farmer

 29  John Davilla               20      m      farmer

 30  Francisco Joze             22      m      farmer

 31  Manuel Davilla             22      m      farmer

 32  Joze Tersharn              18      m      farmer

 33  Manuel F. Terra            20      m      farmer

 34  Joze A. de Souza           15      m      farmer

 35  Manuel Joze Souza          18      m      farmer

 36  John Enos de Souza         17      m      farmer

 37  Manuel Soubrina            16      m      farmer

 38  Joze Lucus                 15      m      farmer

 39  Manuel Machado             17      m      farmer

 40  Manuel Cudrdo              16      m      farmer

 41  Antonio Assenera           16      m      farmer

 42  Joao Francisco             17      m      farmer

 43  Manuel Souza               15      m      farmer

 44  Manuel F. Machado          17      m      farmer

 45  Joaquim Ferreira           16      m      farmer

 46  Manuel S. Brazil           16      m      farmer

 47  Joze Souza Mossarie        18      m      farmer

 48  Manoel Joaquim Dias        18      m      farmer

 49  Manoel Coelho              17      m      farmer

 50  Antonio Alves              18      m      farmer

 51  Manuel Trinidade           18      m      farmer

 52  John Joze                  12      m      farmer

 53  Manuel de Sass             17      m      farmer

 54  Manuel Pintura             16      m      farmer

 55  Antonio Burgess            16      m      farmer

 56  Joze S. Betancourt         25      m      farmer

 57  Manuel Brazil              15      m      farmer

 58  Manuel M. Gill             16      m      farmer

 59  Joze Massarie              15      m      farmer

 60  Manuel Betancourt          18      m      farmer

 61  Manuel Enos Pimentel       18      m      farmer

 62  Domingo Betancourt         20      m      farmer

 63  Manuel Antonio Rosa        20      m      farmer

 64  Jorge Silveira             20      m      farmer

 65  Joze Tershara Costa        16      m      farmer

 66  Manuel Silveira            17      m      farmer

 67  Manuel Siqueira            20      m      farmer

 68  Antonio Victorino          18      m      farmer

 69  Manuel Tershara            18      m      farmer

 70  Antonio Euira              19      m      farmer

 71  Manuel Souza Nouns         18      m      farmer

 72  Geo. Carvo                  6      m      farmer

 73  Joze Carvo                  5      m      farmer

 74  Joze Joaquim               29      m      farmer

 75  Joze Carvalho Noia         26      m      farmer

 76  Joze Coelho                11      m      farmer

 77  Manuel Francisco           12      m      farmer

 78  Geraldo Coelho             2y6m    m      farmer

 79  Manuel Coelho               1      m      farmer

 80  Antonio Pimentel           25      m      farmer

 81  Manuel Pimrntel            25      m      farmer

 82  Freqenque Jacintho         12      m      farmer

 83  Francisco Antonio Noia     25      m      farmer

 84  Manuel Enos                17      m      farmer

 85  Vintura Joze Dias          26      m      farmer

 86  Lucas Xeviar               20      m      farmer

 87  Antonio Joze Coelho        20      m      farmer

 88  Joze Antonio Coelho        11      m      farmer

 89  Francisco Coelho Ramos     24      m      farmer

 90  Antonio Joze Serpa         20      m      farmer

 91  Francisco Joze              5      m      farmer

 92  Joze Victorino             16      m      farmer

 93  Manuel Jose Boes           54      m      farmer

 94  Manuel Joaquim Fugar Dias  24      m      farmer

 95  Antonio F. Dias            30      m      none

 96  Caitano Marsaleno          21      m      none

 97  Joze Frates Fragar         20      m      none

 98  Francisco Frates Pimentel  20      m      none

 99  Joze Maria                 20      m      none

100  John Roderick              35      m      mariner

101  Joaquim Perreira           35      m      mariner

102  Jus Blood                  20      m      mariner

103  Joze Antonio Sequeiro      45      m      mariner

104  Joseph Souza               40      m      mariner

105  Manuel Silva               36      m      mariner

106  John Silva                 36      m      mariner

107  John Cayes                 45      m      mariner

108  Manuel Silva               34      m      mariner

109  Mathew Silva               30      m      mariner

110  John Battiste              30      m      mariner

111  Joseph Williams            27      m      mariner

112  Joseph Brown               38      m      mariner

113  Antonio Joseph             38      m      mariner

114  Frank Silva                30      m      mariner

115  Thos Mento                 31      m      mariner         

116  Joseph Brownell            29      m      mariner

117  Joze Vieira                40      m      mariner

118  Manuel Machado Frates      41      m      mariner

119  Antonio Joseph Rodrigues   30      m      mariner

120  John Mello                 41      m      mariner

121  Francisco Antonio Coelho   25      m      mariner

122  John Furtado Noia          36      m      mariner

123  Amaro F. Barcellos         23      m      mariner

124  Manuel Mendonca            45      m      mariner

125  Domingos Antonio Coelho    37      m      mariner

126  Joseph Coelho              40      m      mariner

127  Augustinho Joze Coelho     43      m      mariner

128  Joseph Silva               24      m      mariner

129  Francisco Frates Riameo    38      m      mariner

130  Joseph ?raves              23      m      mariner

131  Joze Antonio Noia          40      m      mariner

132  Joze Grande                36      m      mariner

133  John Furtado               30      m      mariner

134  Joze Souza                 30      m      mariner

135  Francisco Ramos            25      m      mariner

136  John Joze Coelho           41      m      mariner

137  Manuel L. Bisho            28      m      mariner

138  Joze S. Souza              16      m      mariner

139  Eiraldo Jacintha            3      m      mariner

140  Maria de Jesus             20      f      none

141  Maria Eugenia              30      f      none

142  Anna Margarida             30      f      none

143  Isabella de Souza          20      f      none

144  Anna de Jesus              40      f      none

145  Rita de Jesus              42      f      none

146  Francisco Luiza            44      f      none

147  Catherina Jacintha         29      f      none

148  Maria Luiza                41      f      none

149  Maria Luiza                13      f      none

150  Philomena Joze             11      f      none

151  Anna Joze                9y6m      f      none

152  Anna Jacinto               48      f      none

153  Julia Jacinto              17      f      none

154  Anna de Jesus              30      f      none

155  Maria Isabella              3      f      none

156  Isabella Luiza             5m      f      none

157  Anna de Jesus              50      f      none

158  Droya Thomasia             25      f      none

159  Maria Jesus                23      f      none

160  Margarita Luiza            32      f      none

161  Anna de Jesus              23      f      none

162  Maria de Jesus             17      f      none

63  Philomena de Jesus         14      f      none

1

164  Polecena de Jesus           9      f      none

165  Maria Joze                 17      f      none

166  Anna Joaquim               56      f      none

167  Maria Jesus Filomena       40      f      none

168  Maria Luiza                48      f      none

169  Emelia Luiza               14      f      none

170  Margarita Jesus            40      f      none

171  Maria Lorenco              17      f      none

172  Maria Margarida            30      f      none

173  Anna Joaquim Cardoza       20      f      none

174  Roza de Jesus              32      f      none

175  Anna de Jesus              17      f      none

176  Maria Luiza                22      f      none

177  Anna de Jesus              32      f      none

178  Carolina de Jesus          11      f      none

179  Carolina Maria Julia        9      f      none

180  Anna Joaquina              15      f      none

181  Isaella Ignacia            20      f      none

182  Roza Joaquim               22      f      none

183  Maria Jesus                28      f      none

184  Maria Machado              33      f      none

185  Carolina Delvina           18      f      none

186  Anna Souza                 17      f      none

187  Mary Cayes                 18      f      none

188  Anna Souza de Rosa         22      f      none

189  Anna Josepha               20      f      none

190  Mariana Amelia             40      f      none

191  Polcena Joze de Jesus      20      f      none

192  Maria Josepha              16      f      none

193  Rosa Silva                 30      f      none

194  Mary Silva               1y5m      f      none

195  Mary Violante              22      f      none

196  Maria Joaquim              55      f      none

197  Isabella Margarida Frates  26      f      none

198  Rosa Candida               23      f      none

199  Manuel de Silva            none    none   not stated

200  ? Joachim                  none    none   not stated

 

 

Extraction by Kathy Cardoza 

[Bill Boyd]

Steve,

Have you followed up on this passport request to settle an estate in the Azores?  Not sure what that would take, but maybe see where John went?

Bill

[eric edgar]

These records are from the New Bedford Library database of Whaling Crews. It shows that some

variety of the name was used in the time period Manuel Minta was to have arrived in California. 

Crewmen: MANUEL MINTELL
Age:  Height:  Skin Color:  Hair Color:  Eye Color:  Residence:  Rank: BOATSTEERER  Lay: 1/90	Ship Name: NEWTON  Rigging: BARK  Port of Registry: NEW BEDFORD  Whaling Ground: N PACIFIC  Departure Date: 10/15/1854  Return Date:  Remarks:

Crewmen: VICTORIN JOSE MINTUL
Age:  Height:  Skin Color:  Hair Color:  Eye Color:  Residence:  Rank: SEAMAN  Lay: 1/150	Ship Name: CANADA  Rigging: SHIP  Port of Registry: NEW BEDFORD  Whaling Ground: ARCTIC  Departure Date: 09/30/1851  Return Date: 04/09/1855  Remarks:

Eric Edgar

[eric edgar]

Looking at these records, 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the original name Minta was formed from was PIMENTEL.

Eric Edgar

[David R. Valdez]

isn't Menta the spelling in Portugal. Ifound Mathew and Mary on Ancestry

Sorry to stick my nose in. Loretta

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

What just caught my eye is the name Mintell - - - -PIMENTEL could someone have written the name as they heard it?

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Spring, TX

Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eric edgar
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:12 PM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Minta surname from Flores Island - derivation?

 

These records are from the New Bedford Library database of Whaling Crews. It shows that some

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

What just caught my eye is the name Mintell - - - -PIMENTEL could someone have written the name as they heard it?

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Spring, TX

Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eric edgar
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:12 PM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Minta surname from Flores Island - derivation?

 

These records are from the New Bedford Library database of Whaling Crews. It shows that some

[eric edgar]

Steve, 

I believe the Joseph Minta here is Manuel's brother, The Obit is his wife. I didn;t see them on any of the family trees .

Eric Edgar

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Steve <woodro...@gmail.com> wrote:

What great solutions and tips.

Yes, I have carefully examined the passport (Manuel's son, John), thanks.

I will look at the Whaling Crews and Boston ship manifests, which hadn't come up in my searches. Now I know not to rely on general searches so much. Interesting, family stories have some relatives going back once in a while for whaling -- money but also "the longing" for whaling and fishing. Coastal California fishing was seasonal, apparently.

The zinger is Ms. Margaret Vicente's baptism find, which others found to be the most revelatory:

Manuel Pimentel Ramos born of Manuel Pimentel Ramos and Maria de Jesus

I immediately recognized all the names because they were already in my family tree, in another section:

Manuel Pimentel Ramos

But all evidence points to him being Manuel Minta. I find this realization exhilarating.

In brief, if you assume Greg Small's theory is correct, that Manuel Minta married Philomena Thomas (not Joseph), then Manuel Minta's brother, Joseph Pimental Ramos, married Philomena's sister, Mary Thomas.

Moreover, Manuel Minta's brother Mathew and sister Mary can be mapped to their counterparts in the Ramos/Renas family.

Brother Mathew Minta (Renas/Ramos) family's only record was the 1880 Census. He died before the next 1900 census when his wife and family are still in Contra Costa County under the name Renas. They must have reverted to his original name while Manuel did not.

Sister Mary Minta maps to Maria Pimentel Ramos (birth year), and she seems to have married a John Thomas! However, information is scarce for her.

The intermarriages and name changing do not allow complete confidence: Pimentel Ramos to Renas and Pimentel Ramos to Minta. Add the fact that surnames Thomas and Joseph are common first names.

After figuring how to make these severe changes in Ancestry.com, then I'll contemplate the conundrum of Philomena Thomas vs. Philomena Joseph.

With great appreciation,