RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese passenger lists

[pi...@dholmes.com]

Just added a part of another ship:

http://www.dholmes.com/ships/ship95.html

These are mostly Sao Miguel passengers and some from Graciosa, but as more from this list are added, there will be some from Sao Jorge and also Terceira, etc.

Once done it will complete all of the year 1896 to NYC.

Enjoy.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese passenger lists
From: <pi...@dholmes.com>
Date: Tue, April 09, 2013 3:51 pm
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Many more new ship lists added over the past week again.

http://www.dholmes.com/ships.html

1894 and 1895 to NY are now complete.

Only 1 remains for 1896.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese passenger lists
From: <pi...@dholmes.com>
Date: Thu, April 04, 2013 1:10 am
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Thanks to the terrific volunteer work of Mr. James Rego Nicolau of the San Diego area, I have posted many new passenger ship lists on my website.

The great thing about these extractions is that he has a good recognition of Portuguese names, unlike the extractions done by Ancestry.com and Ellis Island Foundation/LDS.

While the person can be located if you use these other resources as a guide and are lucky enough that they didn't totally butcher the name of the person you seek, it is overall much more likely that the extracted ships I have (now am up to 78 ships) will quickly allow you to find them if they arrived on one of these extracted ships.

Find them all here:

http://www.dholmes.com/ships.html

And if you decide you want to add your name to the growing list of volunteers, I can direct you to pick a ship or two for your own extraction. Maybe you'll even get hooked like Mr. Nicolau. I think he's done maybe 40 ships now. There are many more he has extracted that I have not yet uploaded.

Happy hunting.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

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[Jo Anne Hartmann]

Are there ship manifests from 1881 and 1883?  I believe my grandfather Mello and grandmother Medeiros emigrated to Hawaii those years as children from Sao Miguel...

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From: "pi...@dholmes.com" <pi...@dholmes.com>
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 5:16 PM

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[Cheri Mello]

Jo Anne H,

To get to Hawaii, Azoreans had to leave from Sao Miguel.  The "passaportes" (emigration out of the Azores) can be found here: http://goo.gl/rhUUL

Pick Ponta Delgada from the drop down menu and then click the Procurar button.

Two different books exist that have extracted the data for those bound for Hawaii.  They are Bob De Mello's book and the Knowlton book.  These book function as indicies. Some people on this list have them and can do a look up.  There are probably many on the Portuguese Hawaiian list (Island Routes) who have them and can do a look up.  Mine are still in storage.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[eric edgar]

Jo Anne, 

You can search them on the Portuguese Passenger Manifests at the Hawaii State Digital Archives site. There is also vital records data their

http://archives1.dags.hawaii.gov/gsdl/cgi-bin/library

Eric Edgar

[pi...@dholmes.com]

Hi Jo Anne,

This link shows all the ships that sailed to Hawaii with Portuguese passengers:

http://www.dholmes.com/ships.html#hawaii

Some were extracted, as you will notice.

All are available through a service like Ancestry.com, but you can also access them through any LDS genealogy library, I think.

As for what has been extracted and posted on my above website, that totally depends on the person who is interested in volunteering their time so everyone else can benefit. The person currently active with extractions is finishing up the last of 1896 for NYC. I believe after that he plans to work on those still missing from the earlier years like 1891.

If you or anyone wants to pick a ship and do this, the simple thing to do is look over what others have already done and send it to me and I'll post it.

The extraction is only as good as the person who is familiar with Portuguese names, so what I do it scan every name and if it is obvious there is a mistake, I fix it. If I can't really imagine what it might be, I put a question mark after it. You can use them as a guide and if you believe you found the person you seek, look for the original record and get a copy of the original.

Anyone who finds an error can send me the correction and I'll gladly post it.

Good luck,

[Shirley Allegre]

What are the names of your grandfather and grandmother's parents, that went to Hawaii???

Also the names of your grandfather Mello, and your grandmother medeiros.

 

Shirley in CA

----- Original Message -----

From: Jo Anne Hartmann

To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 10:28 AM

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese passenger lists

[Edward Rodrigues]

Jo Anne

yes there are ships manifests list, ships index cards if you give me the full names I can try to locate them or try this web site http://archives1.dags.hawaii.gov/gsdl/cgi-bin/library?a=p&p=about&c=indextop&l=en&w=utf-8    you punch in the names of passenger and they will give you the information.

Ed  

[Jo Anne Hartmann]

Hi Shirley,  I think we spoke on the phone many months ago about this very thing.  I haven't been in town and not spending much time doing research, but just got back and tried looking stuff up again.

My grandfather/grandmothers parents names are a mystery to me.  I have NO idea.  I'm trying to find a needle in a haystack.  I have some info from other people doing research that may or may not be connected to me.  I'm sure you understand the "maybe" factor especially with such sketchy info.  Manuel Fragoso (?) Mello and Maria Medeiros Mello.  At some point, they all lived in Honokaa, HI as that is where my father, Ernest was born.  He was one of many, many kids! (13-16?) Most were born in Hawaii and the youngest were born in California.  Have never found birth records for Dad - he was born on October 11, 1901.  The oldest son, Joseph Fragoso Mello was born in Hawaii on Aug. 31, 1890 and died on Mar. 4, 1944 in California.

From the 1910 Calif Census, Manuel F. Mello was born in 1866 in Portugal (they never say Azores) and Maria/Mary was born in 1875.  It says they were married (in Hawaii, I'm assuming) in 1888. 

1910 Census also says Mary immigrated in 1883....I don't know how much of the census" records are correct.  Info seems to change from census to census.I have "other" info from someone researching on Ancestry.com that Manuel was 5 when in came to HI and Maria was 18mo.old in 1881. None of this fits.....With the names I think things have gotten all co-mingled with other family lines.

If I can believe the info on the 1910 census, grandfather Manuel F. would have been 15 yrs. old and grandmother Maria/Mary would have been 8 yrs. old.  

I found on one of the ships manifests a "STOWAWAY" by name of Manuel F. Mello (I think it was in 1881) but it didn't say any age or anything else!

The census records have many mistakes by way of transcription.  The latest, `1940 census, shows my parents listed as "Mills"....Sheesh!

I have info from the 1900 Hawaiian census that shows a Manuel Mello, B/D 1868 in Portugal immigrated to HI in 1887! married to Mary in 1889 - now do I take that as gospel?  I'm ready to throw up my hands on this!  Dates seem to float up and down.  Geez when they interviewed these people don't they know their own birthdate?  Why do they keep changing, if, in fact, they are the same people?

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From: Shirley Allegre <shi...@digitalpath.net>
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:46 AM

[Jo Anne Hartmann]

Hi Ed!  Thanks for the response.  I have tried doing the name game to find info and unfortunately my ancestors were not very creative at naming their kids!  Manuel and Maria/Mary - go figure!  I should be looking for John and Jane Doe!  Anyway, I have A WHOLE LOT OF INFO from California Census records about the family after they got to Cali.  I THINK I have info on Manuel/Mary in Hawaii in 1900, but that is still debatable considering the number of Manuel's and Mary's living in Hawaii at that time!  

I don't think I'm as tenacious as many doing research.  I get too frustrated.  Good thing I don't golf! I'd be broke buying new clubs.  I try not to beat on my computer!  Anyway, I  blow hot and cold on doing the research because of that!  Some info I've gotten through the message boards on Ancestry doesn't seem to fit datewise.  I follow one path then do the "math" and it doesn't compute, if you know what I mean.  

I will keep forging ahead, slowly.....gotta keep the bloodpressure down!

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From: Edward Rodrigues <edward.s....@att.net>
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 11:56 AM

[Cheri Mello]

Jo Anne said:
<<I don't know how much of the census" records are correct.  Info seems to change from census to census...The census records have many mistakes by way of transcription.  The latest, `1940 census, shows my parents listed as "Mills"....Sheesh!>>

The census records are really only primary evidence for residence only.  Any other info gleaned from them is secondary evidence.  Census takers had to be able to write.  They didn't have to spell correctly.  And in Hawaii you have the special problem of many cultures coming together.  So if the census taker was born in China and was sent to a Portuguese household, you can imagine 2 different accents trying to communicate in English. At any rate, whoever was home would answer the census taker's question.  And if that meant the 10 year old, the 10 year old answered.  The 1940 census had the census takers put an X by the name of the person who answered the questions.  None of the other censuses did that.  If you do a lot of census work, you can sometimes tell who answered the questions by following the family through the census years.

The transcribed indices are a whole different problem.  Human error can be introduced, especially with someone transcribing who is not familiar with Portuguese names.  At Ancestry, you can submit a correction.  I was told Ancestry outsourced the indexing to China, Sri Lanka, India, or high school students.  I don't know which story is true, if any.  I do know that their training of paleography is subpar.  I've seen Turner transcribed incorrectly!  And that's a real easy name!

Jo Anne continued:
<<I have info from the 1900 Hawaiian census that shows a Manuel Mello, B/D 1868 in Portugal immigrated to HI in 1887! married to Mary in 1889 - now do I take that as gospel? ...  Dates seem to float up and down.  Geez when they interviewed these people don't they know their own birthdate?  Why do they keep changing, if, in fact, they are the same people?>>

The only thing you can take as gospel is a primary source.  A primary source is something that was issued at the time of the event. A birth certificate is a primary source for a birth.  A death certificate is a primary source for the death.  You can take the birth date off of the death certificate, but that fact is a secondary source.  Secondary sources are something that was issued AFTER the time of the event.

Most of our ancestors were illiterate.  They did not celebrate birthdays like we do now with a cake and whatnot.  They weren't asked for their birthdate like we are when we fill out credit applications, banking forms, Dept of Motor Vehicle stuff, employment applications, etc.  And some of our ancestors used their baptism date as their birth date instead.

When I started doing genealogy 21 years ago, I initially signed up for a basic genealogy class at my local adult school.  One of the things we were taught was:

1) Who said it?

2) When did they say it?

3) How did they know?

Take a look at this 1880 census (if you have a subscription to Ancestry): goo.gl/9jNb7

If you are researching the John Bedford family (lines 9-15) in the 1880 census, you will know the answer to question 2 above.  It was stated in 1880.  But if you know that the husband and wife are about 15 years apart in age, and their kids are William, ELIZABETH, Annie, LOLA, and Joseph, you will be completely baffled that the census shows the husband and wife as only 5 years apart and that their kids are William, MARY,  Annie, LOUISA, and Joseph.  And the kids' ages are way off.  Scroll way over to the right.  The answer to question number 1 is there.  I lucked out on that! (for those without a subscription to Ancestry, it says "Obtained from a neighbor.  Could learn no more."  And then you look at all their neighbors (for those who can't view it, many are from Portugal, China, Russia, and Canada).  I therefore have my answer to question 3: They neighbors really didn't know.  They took their best guess.

You'll have to collect every piece of paper you can find on your ancestors.  Hawaii is tougher because you are dealing with a U.S. territory and a kingdom.  So things are a little different with Hawaiian research.  And if you can't find stuff on the husband, chase the wife around.  And ALL their kids.  Not just your ancestor.  The information you need may be on a different kids' record.

Hope this answers a couple of your questions.

[Mary Bordi]

On May 9, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Scroll way over to the right. The answer to question number 1 is there. I lucked out on that! (for those without a subscription to Ancestry, it says "Obtained from a neighbor. Could learn no more."

In 1970 we were to fill out our forms and a census taker was to pick up the forms in person. No one ever showed up.

I don't know if I'll be around when those records become public but I think we will either not be listed or have information given by a neighbor. I am trying to remind my children about this every so often!

Mary

[Jo Anne Hartmann]

Feel much better with your explanations.  Was totally ignorant on who the census takers were and from whom they took the info!  Will keep your email in my file to help me in reading source documents.  Thanks alot!

---

From: Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com>
To: Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:49 PM

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese passenger lists

[netado...@aol.com]

Cheri ~

 

Good info. thank for sharing.  Went on a number of my 1880 census records, and not a one had the name of "who said it".  Darn!  That would have been very useful, as my Grt Grand Parents ages very between 1870 and 1920 by 15 yrs.

 

Ally

[Cheri Mello]

Ally,

Only the 1940 census asked for who said it.  I just got lucky that I had a conscientious census taker in 1880!

[Shirley Allegre]

Hi:  I haven been sick for about 3 1/2.  (stupid allergys)

I am just starting to get back into the swing of things.

Remind me about this.

[Jo Anne Hartmann]

Sorry to hear you've been sick with allergies.  Mine hasve just begun with the advent of the pine pollen!

Have not done much re genealogy as we have house guests from Canada.  When they leave I'll get back in the swing.

Basically - there are 2 things I'm lacking (besides brains!) how, when did the Mello's get to California from Hawaii?  and how, when, where did grandparents get from Azores to Hawaii?  I've given alot of info that I have in the original email below.....

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From: Shirley Allegre <shi...@digitalpath.net>
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:02 AM

[eric edgar]

JoAnne, 

If you look at this family on the 1910 census it shows a 6 year old child born in Hawaii, and a 3 year old child born in California, therefore they arrived between 1904 and 1907. There are not found on the California shiplists at Ancestry.com

The California death index show Manuel F Mello , 44 yrs old, spouses initail A,  died in Alameda County on 11-6-1927

Eric Edgar

[Jo Anne Hartmann]

Thanks for Uncle Tony's obit!  I'm beginning to believe they all swam here!  LOL!  You see the trick with using the birthdates and extrapolating the census dates involves MATH - failed math at all levels!  Feel very stupid --need to work on grandpa Manuel - I know he got divorced from Maria/Mary for "infidelity" - have newspaper article about it - kinda a funny story.....anyway he was living with the sons for awhile.....will have to track back on the census files I have....don't know if he remarried or not.  

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From: eric edgar <nobla...@gmail.com>
To: Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 4:03 PM

[eric edgar]

JoAnne, 

Here's Manuel F Mello's obit from the Tribune

Then here's the family in Hamakua Hawaii on the 1900 census. They're using the Fregoso surname. A census search will tell you why, there were dozens of Mello families there in 1900.

Eric Edgar

[Jo Anne Hartmann]

Eric!  Thank u for this info - when I was little I heard my Mom and Dad talking about his cousins - the De Mello's in Oakland - and Dad laughing about his other names - he thought Fregoso sounded funny....I was too little to make much of it or even to ask any questions...

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From: eric edgar <nobla...@gmail.com>
To: Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 11:49 AM