First, middle names for Azorean people

[Denis Meals]

Listers:

I read with interest the recent discussion regarding the 'end-of-the-line' surnames.  Dano on 1 Oct. spoke to this, and I second his comments.

However, I now have a question to pose to our listers, and ask for their opinions.

Azorean first and second names seem to be restricted to only perhaps 12 commonly used, i.e. Manoel, Jose, Antonio, Joao, Maria, Jacintha, Joaquina, Umbelina, being perhaps most common.  Given that most families had many children means that within a community, there would have been many named Manoel, for example.  For the older still unmarried, at least several named Manoel Jose or Maria Jacintha.

How then did they distinguish between the many same-named individuals within their immediate community, as well as adjacent villages?

Denis

[Cakem...@aol.com]

Many times they would add a qualifier that would distinguish by their job or where they lived in the village.  My grandmother was known as Maria de Praia.  Translated, Mary from the beach.

 

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[celeste perry]

Denis,

   I believe this is the reason the "nick-names" came into use.  One Manuel lived and he was called, "Manuel from the end of the road."  I don't know the Portuguese word for end of the road; however, I think you can see one way of identifying one Manuel. 

   As for the Maria thing for the girls, I feel that 90 percent of girls were named Maria and once they were old enough to move about the village, they used their first and middle name or sometimes just their middle name that might be less common. 

 

Celeste, Hayward, CA 

Celeste Perry ccgr...@yahoo.com

From: Denis Meals <den...@gmail.com>
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 12:50 PM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] First, middle names for Azorean people

[John Raposo]

In the parish registers in the 18th century it was not uncommon to add the person's profession to the last name (without commas) in order to distinguish António Carvalho Alfaiate from António Cavalho Pedreiro and António Carvalho Serralheiro, all living in the same village in the same time period and maybe married to women all named Maria de Jesus. Alfaiate, Pedreiro and Serralheiro are not their family names although sometimes these names became the alcunhas for their children and their decendants. Sometims people think they have hit a brick wall in tracing back because they look for a marriage of António Carvalho Pedreiro and Maria de Jesus, (which they cannot find) when they should be looking for the marriage of Antonio Carvalho, a stone mason, and Maria de Jesus, a houswife.

 

John Miranda Raposo

[eric edgar]

 

A Portuguese nickname is an alcunha . They could be descriptive of the person, the occupation or residence. If it ws a child with the same name as father or close relative it could be Mancebo- younger

 

 

eric edgar

[Dano]

As a person with 14 ancestors named Manoel de Paiva I would also like
an answer to that question, Denis. Seriously, Azoreans did try to deal
with that question. One way was to use Maria, Manoel (or, whatever) as
a middle name, as you mentioned. Another way was, believe it or not,
to use a different surname, or, add another surname. Unfortunately,
whatever they chose to do still ended up confusing people...However,
I believe that the old timers didn't spend much time worrying about
other peoples' confusion, they simply gave their children the names
they preferred - after all, rather than worry about whether a child's
name would confuse people, a considerably more important concern was
to make sure they survived...

[Shirley Allegre]

My husband has an ancestor called Manoel seis dados = Manuel six fingers.
So now I know why one of my children was born with an extra thumb.
Shirley in CA

[John Vasconcelos]

I can cite another example of an added "alcubha" which occurs in my family tree, that of using the father's first name. as an added alcunha. I have an ancestor, Antonio de Freitas Eduardo. His father was Eduardo de Freitas. In Fajazinha Flores, this alcunha of Eduardo has evolved into a surname. Some members of this family who have immigrated to the US now use Edwards as their surname.
ohn Vasconcelos

[eilee...@seleite.com]

This thread has been very interesting and opened my eyes to new
possibilities. It takes great cleverness sometimes to find our Azorean
ancestors!

My husband's 2nd grgrandfather was Antonio Pedro Leite, and most if not all
of his 5 sons took the "Pedro" as a "middle" name. But when son (our
gr-uncle) Joao Pedro Leite came to the states, he alternated between John
Peter Leite and John Leite Peters. His children and grandchildren are
Peters', not Leites!

Finding them was pure serendipity, including my brother-in-law remembering
his grandfather had mentioned back in the 1980's that he had cousins named
"Peters", which made no sense when he first told me.

Eileen Leite

Original Message:
-----------------
From: John Vasconcelos gfsj...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:47:57 -0700
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] First, middle names for Azorean people

I can cite another example of an added "alcubha" which occurs in my family
tree, that of using the father's first name. as an added alcunha. I have an
ancestor, Antonio de Freitas Eduardo. His father was Eduardo de Freitas. In
Fajazinha Flores, this alcunha of Eduardo has evolved into a surname. Some
members of this family who have immigrated to the US now use Edwards as
their surname.
ohn Vasconcelos

On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 3:57 AM, John Raposo <marr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In the parish registers in the 18th century it was not uncommon to add the
> person's profession to the last name (without commas) in order to
> distinguish António Carvalho Alfaiate from António Cavalho Pedreiro and
> António Carvalho Serralheiro, all living in the same village in the same
> time period and maybe married to women all named Maria de Jesus. Alfaiate,
> Pedreiro and Serralheiro are not their family names although sometimes
these
> names became the alcunhas for their children and their decendants.
Sometims
> people think they have hit a brick wall in tracing back because they look
> for a marriage of António Carvalho Pedreiro and Maria de Jesus, (which
they
> cannot find) when they should be looking for the marriage of Antonio
> Carvalho, a stone mason, and Maria de Jesus, a houswife.
>
> John Miranda Raposo
>

> *From:* celeste perry <ccgr...@yahoo.com>
> *To:* "azo...@googlegroups.com" <azo...@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2011 7:03 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] First, middle names for Azorean people

>
> Denis,
> I believe this is the reason the "nick-names" came into use. One
Manuel
> lived and he was called, "Manuel from the end of the road." I don't know
> the Portuguese word for end of the road; however, I think you can see one
> way of identifying one Manuel.
> As for the Maria thing for the girls, I feel that 90 percent of girls
> were named Maria and once they were old enough to move about the village,
> they used their first and middle name or sometimes just their middle name
> that might be less common.
>
> Celeste, Hayward, CA
> Celeste Perry ccgr...@yahoo.com

> *From:* Denis Meals <den...@gmail.com>
> *To:* Azo...@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2011 12:50 PM
> *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] First, middle names for Azorean people

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[Katharine]

John, do you think this was unique to the west coast of Flores in the
19th century (and earlier), or occurred in small villages throughout
the Azores, or was more widespread back then?

Likewise from Fajãzinha das Flores, my paternal Grandpa apparently had
no last name either, so when he came to the US his second name got
anglicized into his surname. His parents decided to return to
Fajãzinha (allegedly a couple of years later, after having failed
economically in the Folsom, California, area), they left him behind
with another family; by the time they had another son years later back
in Fajãzinha, baptism records show they were using the surname
Henriques -- although when that younger boy came to California at age
18 (sponsored by my grandfather?), he took Grandpa's Anglo surname and
made "Henry" his middle name.

I don't know whether Grandma's maternal grandfather's last name of
Jorge (from Ponta da Fajã Grande das Flores, just up the coast from
Fajã Grande and Fajãzinha) was his family name or just his second
name, which my great-grandmother later anglicized into her maiden name
of George.

Katharine.

[Cheri Mello]

I've seen a first name become a surname too in Sao Miguel (and immigration to America, at least).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[John Vasconcelos]

No Kathie,
There is a very interesting case in Lages das Flores. Nicolau de Fraga.  He had a son Manuel Francisco Nicolau who had a son Francico Antonio de Fraga who in turn had a son Manual Francisco Nicolau  This individual then had several sons, on of which was Manual Francisco Nicolau
 The others all had Nicolau as the Surname so in that line the Nicolau surname seems to have "stuck"

In another line, the Fraga surname reappeared  at the 4th generation and it really gets complicated.
John Vasconcelos

[Dano]

I also have an ancestor from Sao Miguel (Manoel de Paiva Marceliano)
who had his father's name tacked on as an alcunha. He was the second
son named Manoel in the same immediate family, so, in that particular
case, it was used, not only to differentiate between the two brothers,
but the thirteen other cousins and uncles in that generation.

[Cheri Mello]

There is no real pattern.  What people did one generation didn't necessarily happen the next.  If it happened for a couple of generations that will make your research easier.  But it won't necessarily last the further back you go.

Kathy Cardoza and I co-wrote a short article on naming practices.  It can be found on the Azores GenWeb here: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~azrwgw/naming.html

Doug da Rocha Holmes also wrote a series (4 of them, I think) of article for the Portuguese Cultural and Historical Society, based out of Sacramento.  He sells these articles.  I don't know where the info is on his web site, but you can poke around yourself here: www.dholmes.com

Cheri Mello
Who really thinks this is her last name and is quite content with the 2 Ls.
(If it followed the pattern of taking the father's surname, it would be Jacome)

[Karen]

I am so happy to read this discussion about naming practices. It
appears to be prevelant on S. Jorge too. I have been researching my
grandfather, known in the US as Joe L. Ayres, but whose Azorean name
is Jose Teixeira Luiz. Apparently there is an uncle and some cousins
with the same name, so I am now realizing that they must have added
his father's first name as an identifier (Aires or Ayres, I've found
it spelled both ways in church records) and that's where it came
from. All his other relatives who immigrated to the US have a surname
of Lewis.

Thanks for helping me make sense of this.
Karen Silva Hillman
researching S. Jorge, Sousa, Teixeira, Luiz

[Diane Lavely]

How do we ever find anything??  Diane

["E" Sharp]

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Diane Lavely <alleva...@gmail.com> wrote:

How do we ever find anything??  Diane

 

You tell me.....still after 10 years trying to find my ggrandmother's baptism record.....seems like they had kids all over those islands....and this was only from 1850 when they for some reason went to the Azores from mainland Portugal. 

 

I often wondered how a family member got his nickname..........from the priest who baptized him..........

 

"E"

 

 

[Denis Meals]

I would like to thank all who responded to my initial posting.  You confirmed what I suspected to be so; the Portuguese naming system of attaching adjectives (occupations, nicknames) to their given names was their way of uniquely identifying individuals. You also confirmed that this practice occurred throughout the Azores.

Just as it identified our ancestors while they were living, so too can it help us as genealogists to sort through the many same-named individuals that we encounter in our research.  I think we all gained from the information shared in this thread.

Denis

 

 

--

[Joao S. Lopes]

Yes, there are many examples of such attached adjectives, even in Brazil. For example, a family Mariante from a mariante "sailorman", and it's almost rule in Portuguese immigrants in Brazil the use of birthplace attached to the surname, to identify many homonymous people. There's a lot of Manuel Fernandes: so, one became Manuel Fernandes Lisboa, other Manuel Fernandes Braga, and another Manuel Fernandes Porto, from their cities. Not necessarily from the city: Braga could be adopted by people from small towns around City of Braga. Some Azorean could adopt "Ilha" as surname.

Joao S. Lopes

---

De: Denis Meals <den...@gmail.com>
Para: azo...@googlegroups.com
Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 14 de Outubro de 2011 16:18
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] First, middle names for Azorean people

[mikeg]

Yet another example of an alcunha becoming family name. My misspelled
last name Geniella should be janela, the Portuguese word for window.
Dates to a time when the Pires, the real family name, supposedly had
the first glass window house in the village of Beira above Velas on
the island of Sao Jorge. Good news is the Pires family members are
still there, so is the old "janela" house, and a few older family
members still know the Janela story. I'm a very lucky descendant....

On Oct 15, 11:01 am, "Joao S. Lopes" <josim...@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
> Yes, there are many examples of such attached adjectives, even in Brazil. For example, a family Mariante from a mariante "sailorman", and it's almost rule in Portuguese immigrants in Brazil the use of birthplace attached to the surname, to identify many homonymous people. There's a lot of Manuel Fernandes: so, one became Manuel Fernandes Lisboa, other Manuel Fernandes Braga, and another Manuel Fernandes Porto, from their cities. Not necessarily from the city: Braga could be adopted by people from small towns around City of Braga. Some Azorean could adopt "Ilha" as surname.
>
> Joao S. Lopes
>
> ________________________________

> De: Denis Meals <deni...@gmail.com>

> Para: azo...@googlegroups.com
> Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 14 de Outubro de 2011 16:18
> Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] First, middle names for Azorean people
>
> I would like to thank all who responded to my initial posting.  You confirmed what I suspected to be so; the Portuguese naming system of attaching adjectives (occupations, nicknames) to their given names was their way of uniquely identifying individuals. You also confirmed that this practice occurred throughout the Azores.
>
> Just as it identified our ancestors while they were living, so too can it help us as genealogists to sort through the many same-named individuals that we encounter in our research.  I think we all gained from the information shared in this thread.
> Denis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:58 PM, "E" Sharp <bellema...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Diane Lavely <allevacon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >How do we ever find anything??  Diane
> > 
> >You tell me.....still after 10 years trying to find my ggrandmother's baptism record.....seems like they had kids all over those islands....and this was only from 1850 when they for some reason went to the Azores from mainland Portugal. 
> > 
> >I often wondered how a family member got his nickname..........from the priest who baptized him..........
> > "E"
> > 
>
> > 
> --
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Azores+un...@googlegroups.com.  Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive.

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>
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