AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Distribution
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Cliff Nye
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Cliff Nye In HIS Service
Researching Flores: Canhoto, Jacintha, Pimentel, Avellar(also on Corvo) Carvalho, Furtado, Nunes, and, on the continent, Rocha. Also, Capellas, São Miguel for Simão and Medeiros. Also, German & Belgium for: Nye, Neu and Pieters(Hoffenheim, Baden, Germany)
Praying for all our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere. Volunteer member of "For The Troops". We send care packages to our troops overseas.
nancy jean baptiste
Nancy
From: ea...@comcast.net
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Distribution
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:30:07 +0000
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julz...@sbcglobal.net
From: "ea...@comcast.net" <ea...@comcast.net>
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 1:53:36 PM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Distribution
The Manuel Cardoso Azevedo (1835-1897) in my records comes from Ribeiras. His family is in Ribeiras at least as far back as 1770.
Eric Edgar
> You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i’m Initiative
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>
Are your Cardosos of Pico from Candelaria by any chance...my Cardoza/Cardoso family have been in Candelaria, Pico since as far back as the church records go in 1641....I'd like to find them further back.......last time I was there I was told there are 3 branches of the Cardoso family on Pico......I wonder if it's true?
Nancy
celeste perry
Forgive me if I have already sent you this
information. I believe the person I highlighted on
the attached report (an ancestor of my son-in-law,
Dave Sequeira from San Leandro) is your Manuel Cardoso
Azevedo. If so, Arline Silveira is also related to
him. Celeste, Hayward, CA
--- ea...@comcast.net wrote:
> The Manuel Cardoso Azevedo (1835-1897) in my
> records comes from Ribeiras. His family is in
> Ribeiras at least as far back as 1770.
>
> Eric Edgar
Celeste Perry ccgr...@yahoo.com
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celeste perry
is.
Celeste, Hayward, CA
Celeste Perry ccgr...@yahoo.com
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Kim Rowe
Hello,
Does anybody know of which island and village the last names Francisco and Henriques are most common. Are Francisco & Henriques as common as the last name Smith is in the U.S.?
Kim
-------------- Original message from julz...@sbcglobal.net: --------------
EricI will take a look at my tree when I get home and see if I have him. I know I do have Cardoso Azevedo in my tree just not sure where. I will let you know.Julzz
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 1:53:36 PM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Distribution
The Manuel Cardoso Azevedo (1835-1897) in my records comes from Ribeiras. His family is in Ribeiras at least as far back as 1770.
Eric Edgar
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: nancy jean baptiste <fishso...@hotmail.com>
>
> Are your Cardosos of Pico from Candelaria by any chance...my Cardoza/Cardoso
> family have been in Candelaria, Pico since as far back as the church records go
> in 1641....I'd like to find them further back.......last time I was there I was
> told there are 3 branch es of the Cardoso family on Pico......I wonder if it's
> You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i Initiative
> now.
> http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM
> >
& gt;
Are your Cardosos of Pico from Candelaria by any chance...my Cardoza/Cardoso family have been in Candelaria, Pico since as far back as the church records go in 1641....I'd like to find them further back.......last time I was there I was told there are 3 branches of the Cardoso family on Pico......I wonder if it's true?
Nancy
From: ea...@comcast.net
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Distribution
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:30:07 +0000
I have found that many surnames occur in specific areas of the Azores . Actually, it should be looked at this way, the surnames of the people that immigrated tend to be found in greater concentration in certain islands or towns than others. There are families, due to better circumstances at home, were not as likley to immigrate as others. Like Cliff, I am researching fairly rare surnames from Flores. In the case of the Noia name, it is only found in San Miguel and Flores, and is almost unknown in continental Portugal. Then even on Flores, it is found in the north much more often.When talking to a recent immigrant from Lajes das Flores at the Portugal Day celebration, I mentioned the Noia name, and he said" they are all up north in Ponta Delgada". When I said I had Soares family on Pico, he said he had family there also and that most of the Soares are on the south around Lajes das Pico and Ribeiras. Azore residents see some surnames distributed geographically.When I start research for someone who doesn't know what island, or even what part of Portugal to look in, I go to Ancestry.com,Search, Immigration, Boston Passenger Lists( because the majority of Portuguese ships landed here), then put in the surname only, with a 1915 date and a 10 year + or_ . This time period , because the shiplists had the most information ( place of birth, last residence, address of relative etc).After looking through a dozen or so lists, I get an idea of where the surname is concentrated. Not a magic bullet , but a place to start. I've had pretty good luck with this method.Eric Edgarresearching Noia, Coelho, Rodrigues, Vieira, Dias, Alvarez, in Flores. Soares, Silveira Soares, Azevedo, Cardoso in Pico.Botelho in San Jorge. Rodrigues, d'Abreu, Pitta, Goncalves Pitta, Freitas, Correia, Noia, in Madeira
Cheri Mello
I think Souza/Sousa and Silva and Silveira are the most common in the Azores, found on all islands. I've seen Francisco and Henriques, but much less so.
Cheri
Kim Rowe
Hi Cheri,
Thank you.
So Francisco & Henriques are not as common as Souza/Sousa, Silva & Silveira.
What about the last name Martin?
Kim
-------------- Original message from "Cheri Mello" <gfsc...@gmail.com>: --------------
Cheri Mello
Based on my research, I'd say Martin(s) is less common than Souza, Silva, Silveira, but more common than Francisco & Henriques. Others my have differing opinions.
It just takes a lot of time doing to research to get a feel for what is common and uncommon. You can probably go to this group's archive/web board, type in the surname and see how many hits it returns. It won't be entirely accurate, as you may find some people putting their surnames in their signature line. But if there are more discussions/threads on Souza than Henriques, that might give you some idea.
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores
Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, R. das Tainhas, Achada
his...@aol.com
My husband has a grandfather named Henriques. I have only seen two and they were both from Vila da Praia. Not a very common name in Terceira., But there are a lots of Martins, at least in Biscoites, Altares, area of Terceira.
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Rowe <te...@bellsouth.net>
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 6:04 pm
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Distribution
Kim Rowe
Cheri,
Thank you
Kim
-------------- Original message from "Cheri Mello" <gfsc...@gmail.com>: --------------
Kim,
Based on my research, I'd say Martin(s) is less common than Souza, Silva, Silveira, but more common than Francisco & Henriques. Others my have differing opinions.
It just takes a lot of time doing to research to get a feel for what is common and uncommon. You can probably go to this group's archive/web board, type in the surname and see how many hits it returns. It won't be entirely accurate, as you may find some people putting their surnames in their signature line. But if there are more discussions/threads on Souza than Henriques, that might give you some idea.
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores
Cheri
On Dec 5, 2007 6:04 PM, Kim Rowe <te...@bellsouth.net > wrote:
Hi Cheri,
Thank you.
So Francisco & Henriques are not as common as Souza/Sousa, Silva & Silveira.
What about the last name Martin?
Kim
-------------- Original message from "Cheri Mello" <gfsc...@gmail.com >: --------------
Kim,
I think Souza/Sousa and Silva and Silveira are the most common in the Azores, found on all islands. I've seen Francisco and Henriques, but much less so.
Cheri
Kim Rowe
Hi Helen,
Thank you.
I know that I can not do research in the Azores until I find my GGrandparents real birth names.
On my GGrandmothers death certificate it lists her fathers name as John Henriques born in Portugal and her mothers name is left blank but her mother is also born in Portugal. So I am pretty sure that the name John is americanized and is perhaps another name. Also on her death certificate it says she was born on June 15th, 1837 in Portugal. I am not positive this her correct birth year because on the 1880 census that is the birth year of her husband and her birth year is 1850. Her son was the informant and as far as I can tell he lived all of his life within the next farm or on her farm up until her death in 1923. So I think because he was that close with his mother that maybe he was upset when he was supplying the information for the death certificate that maybe he got the birthyears mixed up with his Dad's in 1837.
I was told by somebody about 6 months ago that back in the 1800's & early 1900's that the Azores were considered part of Portugal and therefore called Portugal in the U.S. But I was told this from somebody that isn't Portuguese so I don't know if it is true?
Do you know what year your husband grandfather was born? Did his grandfather come to the U.S.? Is Vila da Praia the name of the village? I am just learning about some of the Portuguese customs. I know that there is the Azores and each islands name. Then I think there are villages which in the U.S. would be town, cities. I have also heard parishes for the Azores.
Kim
-------------- Original message from his...@aol.com: --------------
Kim.
My husband has a grandfather named Henriques. I have only seen two and they were both from Vila da Praia. Not a very common name in Terceira., But there are a lots of Martins, at least in Biscoites, Altares, area of Terceira.
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Rowe <te...@bellsouth.net>
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 6:04 pm
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Distribution
Hi Cheri,Thank you.So Francisco & Henriques are not as common as Souza/Sousa, Silva & Silveira.What about the last name Martin?Kim-------------- Original message from "Cheri Mello" <gfsc...@gmail.com>: --------------
Kim,
I think Souza/Sousa and Silva and Silveira are the most common in the Azores, found on all islands. I've seen Francisco and Henriques, but much less so.
Cheri
his...@aol.com
Hi Kim. Manoel Alves Henrique was my husbands 7th Great Grandfather. born c 1650. I know nothing about him accept he was from Vila da Praia, Terceira.
I'm not sure what they call Villa da Praia, or Praia da Vitoria. Its bigger than most villages and its also a Municipal Council. Terceira has two Municipal Council, Angra do Heroismo and Praia da Vitoria. Each of these has Civil Parishes. which I would call villiages. Within the Civil Parish is Ecclesiastic Parish, which are the chruches of the villages. I took this from the Guill book. Maybe someone else can explain it better than me. I hope I haven't confused you more.
Take care
Helen
Kim Rowe
Hi Helen,
Thank you I enjoyed the explanation.
I didn't like history when I went to school. Now I like history since I started doing genealogy.
What is a Municipal Council? What is the Guill book?
Have you traced the Henrique up to what year( the present year or the 1800's)? I can't trace back to 1650 until I can find my GGrandmothers family so that is why I am asking. I don't know if my GGrandmother would be part of your family or not.
I have her listed as Maria Joseph, Maria Palmer, Maria Francisca Martin on 3 baptism records of her children.
On my Grandmothers social security application she is listed as Mary Adel Henriques.
On her death certificate her father is John Henriques and mothers name isn't written in.
I don't have much to go on.
I was already am in a confused state when it comes to portuguese genealogy so you didn't confuse me. Just a little sense of humor.
Cheri Mello
You can think of the municipal council as the county. The villages are the freguesias.
Dr. James H. Guill wrote "A History of the Azores Islands." He is deceased and his book is no longer in print. You can find it sometimes on Ebay or various book sellers for an arm and a leg. I think the original cost was $28. People do post the Ebay and bookseller announcements. I'd try to interlibrary loan it if you are interested in general history. This book does not contain any ancestor info though.
One of the most useful parts was the list of surnames which were extracted and republished by the APGHS (American Portuguese Genealogical and Historical Society) out of Taunton, MA. The newsletter editor, Ernest Cardoza, is on this list. Maybe he can tell you how much they sell back copies for. Permission to do this was granted by Dr. Guill while he was alive.
I also contacted Dr. Guill years ago and republished his list of freguesias that Helen mentioned. I also extracted the list of churches. These are both pretty important for research. I typed them up and put them on Lusaweb, but that site is constantly evolving and changing, so I don't know where the files are on that site. The files aren't on the Azores Genweb either. I know Mel has the church one on her Islandroutes.com site, but I don't know what she did with the freguesia one. It's probably best just to get used to the new CCA (Center for Knowledge of the Azores....Knowledge starts with a C in the Portuguese language) and get the freguesias, churches, and maps from there.
From the CCA:
Island & Council (county): http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/ig/registos/
For the freguesia (village), the only one working is Sao Jorge, so click Calheta. Then you'll see the freguesias: http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/ig/registos/default.aspx?concelho=22
I guess once they get it uploaded, you'll be able to see the churches, but in the meantime, you'll just have to go to Mel's site to see the church list: http://www.islandroutes.com/portuguese/azoreschurch.shtml
You can also extract the information yourself by going to the FHLC (Family History Library Catalog). Do a place search and type in the freguesia and then Portugal. You can see the churches that way. But you'll have to know the freguesia first.
Sorry it's not all in one place anymore.
his...@aol.com
Hi Kim,
I don't know what a Municipal Council is or does. Someone else will have to clue us in. All I know is every island has either one or two or three with the island of Sao Miguel having six.
The Guill book is called "A History of the Azores Islands" by James H Guill. A very good book, unfornuntaly it out of print, and hard to find.
As far as my Heniques goes, he is the only one that shows up in his line. His daughter Ana da Conceicao married a Bartholomu Luis da Costa. The Henriques name never shows up again as far as I know. I could never find anything on him, so I don't know if he had any other children. I really never researched this family very much.
The only other Henriques shows up in my mother side, in the village of Biscoites. Miguel Fernandes Henriques would be my mother 3rd cousin 3 x's removed. He was the son of Antonio Caetano Henriques b. abt. 1730 who was the son of Manoel Machado Henriques b. abt. 1695. They were all from Vila da Praia. I have no idea if these two families are related. I also never researched this family, as they were not my direct line.
Wow! your grandmother has gone by 4 different names. Is it possible that John Henriques is her husband instead of her father, seeing as how she is listed on her SS record as Henriques and they didn't list her mother. Just a thought.
I know this isn't much help.
Helen
Kim Rowe
Cheri,
Thank you for being patient.
Kim
-------------- Original message from "Cheri Mello" <gfsc...@gmail.com>: --------------
Kim,
Kim Rowe
Hi Helen,
Thank you. I will see if I can find the book. Oh is it in english or portuguese?
It was my GGrandmother. I just don't know about my GGrandparents names because the baptism records weren't what I expected lisitng the birth names of the parents, parents birthdate & birthplaces.
When my GGrandfathers filled out his declaration of intention in 1867 a application wasn't required. Just filling out a very basic form that says he is from Portugal, his name and the date he is filling out the form. Then when he received his final naturalization paper in 1876 (9 years later( it just lists the same information that as of now is useless to me to his true birth name and were he came from.
On my GGrandmothers death certificate it says she was married to the late Martin Frank (Frank is americanized for what I found so far on his probate of Francisco as the last name). And it lists her fathers name as John Henriques and her mothers name isn't listed.
So I am stuck at a brick wall and at this point don't think I will ever find them. It is as if they didn't want to leave a paper trail leading to there birth names and origins.
I thought my 2 best leads were going to be the baptism records and the naturalization application. But that didn't turn out as I thought.
Nobody in my family and family that I have tracked down knows anything about my GGrandparents.
I even went to the cemetery were she is suppose to be buried and I couldn't find a headstone. I know she could have been buried without a headstone.
I guess I am just really frustrated. I am sorry.
Kim
-------------- Original message from his...@aol.com: --------------
Hi Kim,
I don't know what a Municipal Council is or does. Someone else will have to clue us in. All I know is every island has either one or two or three with the island of Sao Miguel having six.
The Guill book is called "A History of the Azores Islands" by James H Guill. A very good book, unfornuntaly it out of print, and hard to find.
As far as my Heniques goes, he is the only one that shows up in his line. His daughter Ana da Conceicao married a Bartholomu Luis da Costa. The Henriques name never shows up again as far as I know. I could never find anything on him, so I don't know if he had any other children. I really never researched this family very much.
The only other Henriques shows up in my mother side, in the village of Biscoites. Miguel Fernandes Henriques would be my mother 3rd cousin 3 x's removed. He was the son of Antonio Caetano Henriques b. abt. 1730 who was the son of Manoel Machado He nriques b. abt. 1695. They were all from Vila da Praia. I have no idea if these two families are related. I also never researched this family, as they were not my direct line.
Wow! your grandmother has gone by 4 different names. Is it possible that John Henriques is her husband instead of her father, seeing as how she is listed on her SS record as Henriques and they didn't list her mother. Just a thought.
I know this isn't much help.
Helen
I didn't like history when I went to school. Now I like history since I started doing genealogy.What is a Municipal Council? What is the Guill book?Have you traced the Henrique up to what year( the present year or the 1800's)? I can't trace back to 1650 until I can find my GGrandmothers family so that is why I am asking. I don't know if my GGrandmother would be part of your family or not.I have her listed as Maria Joseph, Maria Palmer, Maria Francisca Martin on 3 baptism records of her children.On my Grandmothers social security application she is listed as Mary Adel Henriques.On her death certificate her father is John Henriques and mothers name isn't written in.I don't have much to go on.I was already am in a confused state when it comes to portuguese genealogy so you didn't confuse me. Just a little sense of humor.
Kim-------------- Original message from his...@aol.com: --------------
Hi Kim. Manoel Alves Henrique was my husbands 7th Great Grandfather. born c 1650. I know nothing about him accept he was from Vila da Praia, Terceira.
I'm not sure what they call Villa da Praia, or Praia da Vitoria. Its bigger than most villages and its also a Municipal Council. Terceira has two Municipal Council, Angra do Heroismo and Praia da Vitoria. Each of these has Civil Parishes. which I would call villiages. Within the Civil Parish is Ecclesiastic Parish, which are the chruches of the villages. I took this from the Guill book. Maybe someone else can explain it better than me. I hope I haven't confused you more.
Take care
Helen
Hi Helen,Thank you.IDo you know what year your husband grandfather was born? Did his grandfather come to the U.S.? Is Vila da Praia the name of the village? I am just learning about some of the Portuguese customs. I know that there is the Azores and each islands name. Then I think there are villages which in the U.S. would be town, cities. I have also heard parishes for the Azores.
Kim-------------- Original message from his...@aol.com: --------------
Kim.
My husband has a grandfather named Henriques. I have only seen two and they were both from Vila da Praia. Not a very common name in Terceira., But there are a lots of Martins, at least in Biscoites, Altares, area of Terceira.
Helen
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Rowe <te...@bellsouth.net>
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 6:04 pm
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Distribution
Hi Cheri,Thank you.So Francisco & Henriques are not as common as Souza/Sousa, Silva & Silveira.What about the last name Martin?
Kim
-------------- Original message from "Cheri Mello" <gfsc...@gmail.com>: --------------
Kim,
I think Souza/Sousa and Silva and Silveira are the most common in the Azores, found on all islands. I've seen Francisco and Henriques, but much less so.
Cheri
his...@aol.com
Good luck
Helen
Doug da Rocha Holmes
If you ever need a quick reference as the church names and corresponding villages, you can always go to my Portuguese Genealogist Master List. It covers the entire country.
You can click your way there from my home page:
www.dholmes.com
Atenciosamente,
Doug
Mary Ann Santos
It says: "termo fora a 2 de Sbro de 1876 Cura Brum" does anyone know what this means. I know it's referring to the 2 of September (or it might be February - it's hard to read) but I don't know what it means.
Thanks.
Mary Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, December 6, 2007 3:03 pm
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Distribution
Hermano C. Pires
In some cases the are multiple such notations, as well as notations for a weddings and deaths.
Hope that helps.
Hermano
Mary Ann Santos
> Council (county): _________________________________________________________________
> Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
> >
>
Shirley Ley
Richard Francis Pimentel
That is another common margin note. The ones I have seen are very brief. Sometimes just “m 23-9-918” others are “morta 23-9-918” in either case it means the person died 23 Sep 1918.
Rick
Richard Francis Pimentel
Epping, New Hampshire
Researching: Pimentel, Carvalho, Teixeira, Rocha
from Sao Miguel, Acores
-----Original Message-----
From: Azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shirley Ley
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007
3:17 PM
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re:
birth certificate/writing in the margins
Mary Ann, I recently got information from my family from Altares, Terceira from Doug da Rocha Holmes and it turned out the writing in the margin was when they passed away.
<BR
Cliff Nye
--
Cliff Nye In HIS Service
Researching Flores: Canhoto, Jacintha, Pimentel, Avellar(also on Corvo) Carvalho, Furtado, Nunes, and, on the continent, Rocha. Also, Capellas, São Miguel for Simão and Medeiros. Also, German & Belgium for: Nye, Neu and Pieters(Hoffenheim, Baden, Germany)
Praying for all our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere. Volunteer member of "For The Troops". We send care packages to our troops overseas.
Cakem...@aol.com
Sam Koester
I also have records with things besides deaths recorded in the margins. Sam in CA
From: Azo...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cakem...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:23 AM
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: birth certificate/writing in the margins
I have baptism records with writing in the margins also and Joao Ventura told me that if the person remained in the area the priest would go back and record things such as marriages and death in the margin of the of the baptism record. Sometimes, even from one island to another and as long as the original record holder was notified.
Shirley Allegre
----- Original Message -----From: Kim Rowe
Kim Rowe
Hi Shirley,
Thank you.
I know that I am having a really hard time researching my family to find my GGrandparents birth names so I can trace them back to the Azores or Portugal.
Today I just received the probate of my GGrandmother hoping it would list the 2 missing daughters married names but it did not even mention either of them in the probate. It also listed her 2nd son Frank Martin with his residence "unknown". So now it looks like I am stuck again.
I ordered the microfilm for the probate index for Oregon were one of my GGrandmothers daughters died. Hopefully I will get that in a few weeks and I will look to see if she has a probate and if she does then I will order it. If she doesn't have a probate then at this point I do not know what else to do.
Cliff found my GGrandmothers death on Vital Search and I received the death certificate hoping there would be her birth name on it but there wasn't. I found 3 baptism records (of the of my GGrandparents children) written in a ledger, possible marriage certificate of my GGrandparents, land records of my GGrandfather and to no avail I am not any closer to finding them across the ocean as I was 1 year and 9 months ago.
I have read that you can't do any research across the ocean until you find the birth names and approx. birth year so you can search passenger lists, islands and villages. I don't think I can just start looking on the passenger lists and pick a name that looks close and research that person.
At this point I am so frustrated I am about ready to pull my hair out and almost give up.
Kim
-------------- Original message from "Shirley Allegre" <shi...@psln.com>: --------------