maiden names

[pi...@dholmes.com]

I would like to know the opinions of others about how to enter surnames for women.

I always enter the maiden names, but often or usually (in the late 1800s to present time) women have adopted their new husband's name and are listed as such in the records.

For example, Maria José is married in 1888 (I am just making all this up) and married António Vieira Borba, so is listed as Maria José Borba.

Her parents are listed as José Inácio Parreira and Faustina Cândida.

So what do you do? Are you going to call her Maria José Borba in your genealogy program? It would certainly be valid since that is what the priest recorded.

But I don't do it if I already know her ancestry and it doesn't include Borba. I call her just Maria José. And if in the future I ever see her listed as Maria José Parreira, I will add in Parreira to her name.

If I don't yet know her ancestry, I enter her with Borba, pending further research that reveals her ancestry. If not found in her ancestry, then I remove Borba.

Another example, in case I am not clear with the above:

Amélia de Jesus married in 1897 (another I am just creating now). Her husband is Amaro José da Silveira. So she is listed as Amélia de Jesus Silveira.

Her parents are Inácio Vitorino de Sousa and Paula Josefa.

I would list her as Amélia de Jesus Silveira, but pending further research, since her parents don't use it.

If I found that her maternal ancestry includes Silveira, I would keep Silveira as listed. But if she had no Silveira, I would then remove it once I made that discovery.

What would you do?

One often finds, but certainly not always, that this lady has children and is not listed with her husband's family name. That might also be where her own ancestral name is found once or twice.

One final thing. At death, if the woman has adopted the surname of the husband when married, she is usually listed with her married name in the death record.

In my opinion, one must always note exactly how each person is listed, but when you want to know her maiden name, you can't include the one used after she married.

And I always put just her maiden name in the genealogy program, along with all the notes about how she is listed throughout her life.

It starts with her at birth, continues with her name as godmother before she married, name at marriage, name used for any children at their baptisms, name used as godmother already married, and finally at her death. It can also continue after her death when she could be listed as grandmother or mother of a child who married after her death. There might be 10 or more variations on her name over the years.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Women’s names have always been a problem. I always record the way the name appears in the record with a custom fact “Recorded Name” The actual way I list in my program as the primary name is a reflection of the preponderance of those names.

 

For example I have a Maria at birth later I find her name recorded as Maria de Jesus five times and Maria Moniz five times and Maria da Conceicao once. I would list her primary name as Maria de Jesus Moniz and only make a note of Maria da Conceicao.

 

I have switched from FTM to The Master Genealogist  (TMGT) and now can have all names come up in sort lists. Her name would appear in Bold print Maria de Jesus Moniz and in lighter print Maria de Jesus and also as Maria Moniz.

 

How your genealogy program handles names especially woman’s names is important when selecting a genealogy program to use.

 

One further thing I never assign a married name or tell a genealogy program to use married names. If I find a woman as Maria de Jesus that is how her name appears I do not tack on her husband’s family name.

 

Once again TMG handles the listing of names quite well.

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Spring, TX

Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

[Pam Santos]

Same I never use the husband's surname for the wife, I only use the name as it appears in records.

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[Cheri Mello]

Doug,

I don't have any of my Portuguese women ancestors using their husband's name.  Not until they came to America (1900s).

At any rate, just like Rick, I use The Master Genealogist (TMG) and I can have "Name Variations" as well as assign a married name for a woman (I don't assign a married name for any of the women in my genealogy program - even my American branches).  I don't know if Brother's Keeper allows you to have multiple names.  If not, I guess your note field is the best solution.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[pi...@dholmes.com]

If I find variations in how a lady was named in the records, I write their names as this, for example:

Catarina da Conceição ou Catarina de Jesus

If thee was a 3rd variation:

Catarina da Conceição ou Catarina de Jesus ou Catarina Pimentel

The field length for names in Brother's Keeper is large and I have never exhausted it. I think it might be something like 125 characters.

It could probably tackle the name of a king, whose names can go on and on.

If this person emigrated to the USA, I modify it a little and it might be:

Maria do Amparo or Maria Silveira

The "or" reflects she moved to the USA. If she had those variations and remained in Portugal, it would be:

Maria do Amparo ou Maria Silveira

I am not sure if I have any of my own ancestors who were recorded at marriage with their husband's names.

I notice it became a more common practice in the latter 1800s, so for many that would be great-great-grandparents or maybe gr-grandparents.

But I have half of them from other countries, being only half Portuguese. Maybe only a low percentage will be affected.

100% of people will be affected if they have all Portuguese ancestors and they all lived and died in Portugal, since it also happened at death.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

[pi...@dholmes.com]

I usually make a change in how I record once it actually becomes a problem.

When I was first starting, I automatically added the father's name to all women. Now I would NEVER do that for Portuguese.

But as we know, that's how a lot of countries do it.

As an aside comment, we with Portuguese ancestry might not realize just how lucky we are with the church records.

In Hungary's records, many times the parents are not even mentioned at marriage. One must use some guess work to figure out families.

When that happens in Portuguese records, and it does happen, it is certainly uncommon and poses a big problem to extend the line further.

But with a standard format for names in most other countries, we expect the children to use the surname of the father and that must be why they didn't even bother to name parents at marriage.

(Not all Hungarian records are like that, but it is common)

For a lady in Portugal listed as either Maria Moniz or Maria de Jesus, I would do this:

Maria de Jesus ou Maria Moniz

Because in your example you never said she was recorded even once as Maria de Jesus Moniz.

But I see that your program will allow a search and will see both versions. Brother's Keeper will search only what is recorded exactly in the name field.

There are no separate fields for recording the first, middle and surname.

But as I said, if I have a problem that needs a solution, I make an appropriate change.

The problem started when I did a search for people and couldn't find them, even though they were there to be found.

If I was looking for Inácia Cota and had her recorded as Inácia de Jesus ou Cota Velho (that's how I started to record these variations), my program, like most, would not see Inácia Cota.

In Brother's Keeper I do have the choice to do separate name searches, but it's complicated to explain without you being familiar with it.

This search is far slower. So I usually try to do the faster search where I must have the exact name to find it.

That's when and why I modified to have the complete name separated by "ou."

For variations in men's names, and it happens all the time, I might have this:

Pedro Machado ou Pedro António Machado

or

António Teodoro ou António Machado Luís

But maybe that should be another subject for men's names.

It's when my database got too big that I didn't want to wait for a long search as I added new people that I came up with my current method.

For a search for two separate fields (like a search for anyone named Manuel plus anyone named Pereira) it can take maybe 7 minutes when I first open my program to search 228,000 names.

Then later, once the first search is done and the names have appeared in the RAM of my computer, the second search will be maybe 30 seconds.

But compare that to the 10-15 seconds for another way to search and you can see why I like to get it done faster.

So like you said, the program you use can certainly affect your methods of recording names.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

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[pi...@dholmes.com]

Another factor that I just thought of is something that will happen in the future for me.

I think the way I name people might help when I am ready to publish the genealogies of each village in book form.

If I have to look through notes to see how a person was named, that seems like it might be too time-consuming.

But when they are listed right at the start with all their names, I could easily edit them if I choose, or maybe just keep them as-is.

I believe with my method I am making is easier for this future stage of my research.

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[Cheri Mello]

I just search my genealogy program by first names.

[celeste perry]

   I too, changed my names to having the index look at first names.  I did this several years ago and have had muh better luck finding someone in my database if I look at the first name and scroll down through all the possbilities that match the name for which I am searching. 

   I have used FTM since I began looking into my ancestors and it did me a while to change to searching by first name.  In FTM, you add \\ after the name in the family group sheet.  When you have done this for your entire database, the index is by first name.

   I did have some difficulty getting my new computer to accept my version 16/2006 of FTM; however, it was possible to get it done.  I have not fund the newer versions of FTM to my liking so I plan to use version 16 until I no longer use a genealogy program.

Celeste, Hayward, CA

Celeste Perry ccgr...@yahoo.com

 

From: Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com>
To: Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[GGD...@aol.com]

I agree totally.

["E" Sharp]

Me too, which is why I recently bought a new HP laptop from HP with Windows 7 (couldn't find one at a local store anywhere) and installed my FTM 16(32) with no problems.  We also installed Microsoft Office Professional 2010 32/64.  I wrote to Ancestry and they told me that the newest version of FTM (64) will not work on Windows 7 it will only work on Windows 8 and like Celeste, I do not like the newer versions either.

 

Re current subject - You also have the instances when the males took the mother's maiden name and the females took the father's surname?  I just put them is as they were listed since they still show up under the same mother and father.

 

"E"

 

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[Cheri Mello]

Yes, Elaine, when I have a female taking the father's surname and the male taking the mother's, I also list them that way. Like you said, they will show up under the same mother and father. Cheri

[Herb]

Hi Richard

 

Not sure if you know this, but the Master Genealogists Software is from an "Unknown Publisher" and the actual certificate is not registered.

 

Herb

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

The Master Genealogist is published by Wholly Genes Inc. It has been available for 15+ years that I know of.

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Spring, TX

Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 8:08 AM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

 

Hi Richard