Seeking Portuguese citizenship

[Lorraine]

Does anyone here (American) have any experience with seeking Portuguese citizenship?  My father (deceased) was born in the Azores and I'm considering applying for Portuguese citizenship.  For me it would be a dual citizenship as I would retain my American citizenship.  ( I'm aware that the US doesn't recognize a second citizenship for its American citizens.) Just wondering about this - any advantages/disadvantages?  It's my  understanding that a Portuguese passport would be recognized in all of the European Union - for extended stays, opening a business, etc.

  

[Cheri Mello]

This came up last week.  Here is what I told that person.
=================
There was a discussion on this a couple of years back.  In the archives of this group, you can find information:
http://goo.gl/zyN5V1

It's probably one of the first two threads/topics.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Kpsreading]

I am currently doing this, contact me off list and i will tell you what I have found out. Kpsshopping at gmail.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 4, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Lorraine <design...@cox.net> wrote:

Does anyone here (American) have any experience with seeking Portuguese citizenship?  My father (deceased) was born in the Azores and I'm considering applying for Portuguese citizenship.  For me it would be a dual citizenship as I would retain my American citizenship.  ( I'm aware that the US doesn't recognize a second citizenship for its American citizens.) Just wondering about this - any advantages/disadvantages?  It's my  understanding that a Portuguese passport would be recognized in all of the European Union - for extended stays, opening a business, etc.

  

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[Lorraine]

Thanks for the help.  I checked the previous citizenship thread and learned a lot.  I have my father's birth and baptism records from Graciosa but he changed his name when he came to America and I don't have a record of that name change.  (Don't know if it was ever changed legally.)  It seems that without that record I can't proceed with the citizenship process.  But HK, I'll contact you off list to find out how your process is going.

[elaine sharp]

Lorraine,

 

If your dad was here for the WWI Draft Registration or WWII Draft Registration and his name was changed by then, try using that for proving his name change.  Also, what about his U. S. citizenship records?  Most of the name changes were probably not legally changed. 

 

“E”

 

[rcapodc]

Lorraine, if he became a citizen of the USA after 1906 the name change could be on the Naturalization Document. My grandfather became a citizen in 1942 and there is an attachment that says he legally changed his name at that time. Also, an uncle did the same and it is notated on the Naturalization Record.

 

Rosemarie

--

[Lorraine Price]

Thanks, Rosemarie, for this info.  My dad has been deceased for a long time (He was 52 when I was born!) and I don’t have any naturalization papers.  But as “E” told me, his WWI draft registration with his American name, which I have, may work to connect him with his Portuguese name and the birth records I have.  I’ll probably start all this work in the fall and will keep you informed of my progress or lack of it.

 

Lorraine

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of rcapodc
Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 1:56 PM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Seeking Portuguese citizenship

 

Lorraine, if he became a citizen of the USA after 1906 the name change could be on the Naturalization Document. My grandfather became a citizen in 1942 and there is an attachment that says he legally changed his name at that time. Also, an uncle did the same and it is notated on the Naturalization Record.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

From: Lorraine

Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 7:22 AM

To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Seeking Portuguese citizenship

 

Thanks for the help.  I checked the previous citizenship thread and learned a lot.  I have my father's birth and baptism records from Graciosa but he changed his name when he came to America and I don't have a record of that name change.  (Don't know if it was ever changed legally.)  It seems that without that record I can't proceed with the citizenship process.  But HK, I'll contact you off list to find out how your process is going.

On Friday, July 4, 2014 9:53:42 AM UTC-4, Lorraine wrote:

Does anyone here (American) have any experience with seeking Portuguese citizenship?  My father (deceased) was born in the Azores and I'm considering applying for Portuguese citizenship.  For me it would be a dual citizenship as I would retain my American citizenship.  ( I'm aware that the US doesn't recognize a second citizenship for its American citizens.) Just wondering about this - any advantages/disadvantages?  It's my  understanding that a Portuguese passport would be recognized in all of the European Union - for extended stays, opening a business, etc.

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[rcapodc]

Lorraine, Good luck with it all, it’s not easy with our Portuguese lines!  Rosemarie

[Phil Lopes]

I just received my Portuguese citizenship on May 14 of this year. It took me 7 years to obtain mainly because I had lived in three different countries and I was required to get a police report from each one to prove that I had no criminal record. Since after considerable trying I was unable to get such reports I was saved by the new Portuguese Vice Consul in San Francisco who secured a waiver for the police reports. The other time consuming part was the Portuguese language test which is only offered in the US a couple of times a year. I do not have a passport only a citizenship card but with the card and $138.00 I can get a passport. At this time, I have no intention of getting a passport but yes it is recognized not only by European Union countries but any country in the world. I began the process soon after the Portuguese government changed the law to allow second generation (my parents were born in the US but grandparents were born in Portugal) people to get citizenship.

Phil Lopes

On Friday, July 4, 2014 6:53:42 AM UTC-7, Lorraine wrote:

[MaryAnn Santos]

Phil,

How advanced/difficult is the language test? Is it a written test or oral or both?

Thanks.

MaryAnn

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[David Perry]

I just received my citizenship through my local consulate and there was no language requirement.  I'm guessing anyone who wants to become a citizen with no familial connection has a language requirement but those of us who become citizens as a result of a parent born in Portugal have no language requirement.  There may be some confusion at the consulates since my son asked at the New York Consulate and was told there was a language requirement.   

[apor...@yahoo.com]

Phil Lopes;  Since you have recently obtained your Portuguese citizenship, a few questions, if you don’t mind.

1.  What did the entire process cost you?
2. As, I believe E asked, how complicated was the language test?  Was it entirely written or also spoken?
3. Do all 4 of your grandparents have to have been born in Portugal/Azores?
4. Will this citizenship pass on to your children?  (or make it easier/possible for them to also obtain Portuguese citizenship?

Thanks in advance for your time, Sam in NC

Sent from Windows Mail

[Phil Lopes]

Sam,

Did not keep close track of costs but not counting expenses of trip to Colombia to try to get police report, I would guess costs were about $500 which was for translation costs, language test fees, and processing fees.  I did not use a lawyer.​

This is my answer to another inquiry about the language exam:

Hard to assess difficulty of exam. At the time I spoke my best Brazilian Portuguese over 25 yrs ago I took a standardized test and scored just below an educated native speaker. On the test for citizenship which I took last November I received a score of 85 which barely got me into the top category, a muito bom. The test took almost three hours and included written, reading and listening comprehension, and conversing with the test monitor. When one signs up for the language test (and pay your money) you will receive a sample test which I found very useful.

You do not have to show connection to all grandparents. The Portuguese government accepted my connection to my paternal grandfather only who was born on the mainland. However, interestingly my Portuguese citizenship card lists my parents who were born in US.

I do not know if one's children can become citizens if you get it through this process.

Hope this helps.

Phil Lopes

 

                        

     
                             

 

 

 

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[apor...@yahoo.com]

To all who have given information on obtaining Portuguese citizenship, many thanks.  As expected, the requirements seem to be a bit different depending on which consulate you are going through.  I think that is probably typical of consulates.  Also, the requirements change depending upon how distantly you are related to the Portuguese citizen.  Again, understandable.

Since I am a grandchild of Portuguese citizens and don’t speak a word of Portuguese, I’m afraid citizenship is unobtainable for me.  My only reason for wanting it, aside from pride of heritage, would be for my sons to be able to have the EU passport and the opportunities that might/would present to them.

Anyway, thanks to all for the informative posts, Sam in NC

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[Lorraine Price]

Thanks to everyone for all the good information on seeking Portuguese citizenship.  I’m amazed at all your different stories, persistence and success!  And I’m encouraged to start my own quest.  My husband and I are off to Portugal today so I’ll check in with the group when I get back later this month.  Very excited!

 

Lorraine

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Phil Lopes
Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 12:16 PM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Seeking Portuguese citizenship

 

I just received my Portuguese citizenship on May 14 of this year. It took me 7 years to obtain mainly because I had lived in three different countries and I was required to get a police report from each one to prove that I had no criminal record. Since after considerable trying I was unable to get such reports I was saved by the new Portuguese Vice Consul in San Francisco who secured a waiver for the police reports. The other time consuming part was the Portuguese language test which is only offered in the US a couple of times a year. I do not have a passport only a citizenship card but with the card and $138.00 I can get a passport. At this time, I have no intention of getting a passport but yes it is recognized not only by European Union countries but any country in the world. I began the process soon after the Portuguese government changed the law to allow second generation (my parents were born in the US but grandparents were born in Portugal) people to get citizenship.

 

Phil Lopes

On Friday, July 4, 2014 6:53:42 AM UTC-7, Lorraine wrote:

Does anyone here (American) have any experience with seeking Portuguese citizenship?  My father (deceased) was born in the Azores and I'm considering applying for Portuguese citizenship.  For me it would be a dual citizenship as I would retain my American citizenship.  ( I'm aware that the US doesn't recognize a second citizenship for its American citizens.) Just wondering about this - any advantages/disadvantages?  It's my  understanding that a Portuguese passport would be recognized in all of the European Union - for extended stays, opening a business, etc.

  

--

[robertjm]

Just a quick question regarding citizenship.

If I've read this thread correctly I would not be eligible because I have to go back to my g-g-grandfather to find someone born in the Açores. Right?

[pi...@dholmes.com]

Robert,

I am pretty sure anyone can become a citizen of Portugal, but since you don't have a parent who is a citizen, then you'll take the long route and have to become naturalized with living there, language proficiency, etc. - pretty much like becoming naturalized in the USA.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Pico & Terceira Genealogist

=============================================
Get ready for NFL Fantasy Football and join me in the newly created Azores Genealogist League. Still looking for more participants.
Write me here for more info: N...@rochaholmes.com
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Seeking Portuguese citizenship

--
 

[David]

Robert and Doug,

Yes, one would have to be naturalized instead of claiming citizenship by right.  However, the Portuguese nationality law includes a provision whereby the residency and language proficiency requirements are waived for luso-descendants.

Because I'm half Azorean but my US-immigrant ancestors were three great-grandparents and two great-great-grandparents, this is the route I am using to obtain Portuguese citizenship (dual with USA).  (Currently seeking to meet what requirements do remain, such as documenting the descent, obtaining police records from countries where one has lived, etc.)

This path is not as publicized as the one for grandchildren of citizens, but it's right there in the Lei da Nacionalidade ("LN"; the Nationality Law) and its current implementing regulation (the Regulamento da Nacionalidade Portuguesa; see http://www.nacionalidade.sef.pt/docs/DL237A_2006.pdf -- see Article 24). 

In a nutshell, the LN works (in relevant part) as follows:

1. Some people are inherently entitled to Portuguese citizenship, to have it "attributed" to them. Among people born outside Portugal, that includes, for example, children born to a Portuguese parent. The process for such individuals to acquire citizenship is one of claiming that to which they are automatically entitled under the LN.

2. Those who are not automatically entitled to receive citizenship can still acquire it -- through naturalization. There are several grounds on which one can seek naturalization. One of these is to be a grandchild of a citizen (who must not have given up Portuguese citizenship). Under that route, the residency requirement that exists for some of the other routes to naturalization does not apply, but there is still the requirement to have basic competence in Portuguese.  However, there are also several separate routes to naturalization available for "special cases," and these special cases are: people who formerly held Portuguese nationality; luso-descendants (without being limited to the 2nd degree or to the other requirements about being still alive and not having given up citizenship) or members of "communities of Portuguese ancestry"; and those who have provided "relevant" services to the Portuguese state or to the "national community."

At least as I understand it, the provision about "communities of Portuguese ancestry" does not cover luso-descendants who can actually trace their known ancestry back to Portugal but rather is meant to provide an easier route to naturalization for descendants of communities such as in Goa, Macau, Malacca, etc., where the ties may not be traceable all the way back to Portugal but which are ongoing communities known historically to have collective genetic and cultural ties back to Portugal. If I recall correctly, this is also the provision under which Portugal now, subsequent to recent legislation, processes naturalization petitions from Sephardim who claim Portuguese descent.

The provision regarding "descendentes de portugueses," descendants of Portuguese, is therefore the one that many of us have available to use. By classifying us among "special cases" the LN seems to be reserving to the government even greater discretion as to approving naturalization applications than it has with respect to the other grounds for naturalization (such as grandchildren who meet the additional requirements I mention above). 

Interestingly, though, this "special case" route does *not* include any language proficiency requirement. Nor is there a residency requirement.

Unfortunately, the Portuguese Embassy site's coverage of consular services does not address this "special cases" route. If one reads Portuguese, these links are very useful:

Overview of acquisition of Portuguese nationality:  http://www.nacionalidade.sef.pt/aquisicao.htm# 

Questions and answers about acquisition of Portuguese nationality: http://www.nacionalidade.sef.pt/duvidas.html#a6

From the above links, these are the most relevant excerpts for those of us who are "special cases," i.e., you cannot meet the requirements as a grandchild, whether because your last Portuguese citizen ancestor was further back, or your grandparent gave up Portuguese nationality, or you don't speak at least basic Portuguese:

Em casos especiais: (n.º 6 do art. 6.º da LN)

O Governo pode conceder a macionalidade portuguesa, por naturalização, em casos especiais, aos estrangeiros que já foram detentores da nacionalidade portuguesa, aos havidos como descendentes de portugueses, aos membros de comunidades de ascendência portuguesa e aos estrangeiros que tenham prestado ou sejam chamados a prestar serviços relevantes ao Estado Português ou à comunidade nacional, quando satisfaçam os seguintes requisitos:

Ser maior de idade (18 anos) ou ser emancipado à face da lei portuguesa; 

Não ter sido condenado, com trânsito em julgado da sentença, pela prática de crime punível com pena de prisão de máximo igual ou superior a 3 anos, segunda a lei portuguesa.

* * *

Havidos como descendentes de portugueses ou membros de comunidades de ascendência portuguesa

- Certidão do registo de nascimento do interessado;

- Certidões dos registos de nascimento dos ascendentes portugueses;

- Certificados do registo criminal emitido pelos serviços competentes portugueses, do país da naturalidade e da nacionalidade, bem com dos países onde tenha tido e tenha residência.

O interessado poderá estar dispensado de apresentar o registo criminal português.

[end of excerpts; see also Article 24 of the Regulamento, linked to above]

For those of us whose most recent Portuguese citizen ancestor was born before the introduction of civil registration, I am assuming that copies of parish registers' baptismal records will suffice to meet the requirement for "certidões dos registos de nascimento dos ascendentes portugueses," but I'm not positive and am looking into that.  I'm hoping that if a copy of the CCA PDFs won't suffice, there is a way to obtain and then submit a certified copy of the same issued by the relevant Arquivo Distrital or other governmental agency.  The Regulamento just says the evidence of descent from a Portuguese ancestor must, if birth certificates are lacking, be deemed adequate by the Justice Ministry.

Also see:  http://www.mj.gov.pt/sections/pessoas-e-bens/identificacao-e-registo/nacionalidade/ficheiros6189/entrou-em-vigor-o-novo

The form to file is available in PDF from the link given on this page:  http://www.irn.mj.pt/IRN/sections/irn/a_registral/registos-centrais/docs-da-nacionalidade/modelo-de-requerimento-22132/

In a nutshell, for those of us who cannot meet the grandchild requirements, the "special case" route offers an alternative (and without the language requirement, if that matters to you).

Lastly, I would just caution anyone considering dual citizenship to speak first with a US (or Canadian, etc., as the case may be) immigration lawyer just to confirm that you go about it in a way that ensures you don't wind up renouncing your original citizenship (unless you want to, of course). It would also be important to speak with a Portuguese lawyer (or more, if needed) and a lawyer of your home country (or more, if needed), each of whom is competent to advise you on matters of taxation, family law, and other areas of law that may be affected by your taking dual nationality. 

Keep in mind that you will become subject to two countries' laws, taxation systems, etc., both at the same time, which may have unforeseen results for you.

David da Silva Cornell

[João Ventura]

Hi all,

Just adding a note regarding the certificate. A PDF from CCA will not suffice. You should contact the appropriate Public Library in which those records are stored (there are three: Ponta Delgada (S. Miguel and Sta. Maria), Angra do Heroísmo (Terceira, Graciosa and S. Jorge) and Horta (Faial, Pico, Flores and Corvo)), and request a certified copy of the birth/baptism record for naturalization purposes. They will actually transcribe the necessary record into a computer-printed document and officially mark it as a officially-issued document.

João Ventura

http://tombo.pt/en

["E" Sharp]

Here is an interesting article, I just received from the Portuguese American Journal - Portugal Reconnect - The Portuguese Citizenship Project: 

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/14726138a2d50d45

"E"

[Cheri Mello]

Elaine,

Don't think anyone can read a link to your personal email.  Try clicking on the link yourself, taking you to the article on the Internet and then copy that link.

["E" Sharp]

Here is their website.  Apparently, for a fee, they offer their services to obtain documents, etc. to obtain citizenship.  This is what the article said:   

Portugal ReConnect - "The Portuguese Citizenship Project"

In celebration of America's birthday, Portugal ReConnect - "The Portuguese Citizenship Project" is offering a 50% discount off its Portuguese Citizenship by Descent services. This discount is valid until 11th of July.                                     

To get started, visit their website at www.portugalreconnect.com. On the Portuguese Portuguese Citizenship section, scroll down to "How can I Get Started", download the form, complete and return to us via email at ptciti...@gmail.com or call +1-862-234-9483 and a Client Manager will help get you started.

I am in no way connected to this; I do not know the costs involved. I only provide FYI. 

PLEASE NOTE THE DISCOUNT IS ONLY VALID TIL TODAY????

"E"

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[apor...@yahoo.com]

Elaine;  When I click on the link it takes me to a page about connecting to gmail.  Do you perhaps have another link?

Sam in CA

Sent from Windows Mail

[Cheri Mello]

Sam,
Elaine resent the link.
Cheri