Please! Translation help!

[nancy jean baptiste]

Greetings Group,
 
I have found my 5th ggrandparents marriage record in Velas.....I'm having a very hard time translating his writing and all help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Velas, Sao Jorge...marriages for 1734-1772 page 0102, Joam de Sousa and Isabel do Rosario
 
Thank you in advance,
Nancy Jean

[Gayle Machado]

Nancy,

I'm going to take a wild stab at the basics and let others shoot me down:
9 Jan 1753 for the date.
Joam de Sousa, son of Joam (Peixeiro ) and Luzia Cardoza, natural of Sto. Amaro
and
Isabel do Rosario, daughter of Joam Machado Costa and (Micaela) do Rosario of this matrix.

Among the signatures at the end of the record it shows a Joam Machado (Rocha) Costa along with Vital Pereira Fagundes.

Gayle

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[nancy jean baptiste]

Hi Gayle,

Thank you for the insights. I was at such a loss to comprehend this record. This priest's handwriting is just awful. Your confirmation of the date opens up further mystery since I was looking for the marriage of my 4th ggrandmother, Marianna Clara's parents. On Mariana's marriage record in June 9, 1800 her age is given as 26 years old and I spent a whole day looking at all the baptisms in Velas for 1770"s and never could find her....so I thought maybe if I could find her parents marriage and look for other siblings I could find her along the way or perhaps other clues. I started with 1750 on a whim thinking that I'd be too far back but at least I wouldn't miss it by not going far enough back. I was very surprised to find them in 1753 but I'm sure it's them. On Marianna's marriage to Antonio Pereira her parents are given as Joam de Sousa Cardoso/a? and Isabel do Rosario and since men sometimes take their mother's name as well as their father's I think that's what he did. That puts their marriage 21 years before Marianna's presumed birth date but I've seen that with my Pereira family so I know it's possible. With your information I'm wondering if I should look in Santo Amaro for Marianna's birth instead of Velas....maybe they moved there and that's why I couldn't find her anywhere in Velas in the 1770's. Thanks for your help....now I know Isabel's parents names. I wish the records from these times gave the ages of the couple since it's a valuable clue when looking for birth records! Also, I couldn't tell if Joam was the son Of Joam Teixeira or Pereira and now Peixeiro? is in the mix. Perhaps someone else will give insight into that surname. I have Peixodo's in my record but I've never seen Peixeiro before. I'll spend tomorrow looking for Marianna in Santo Amaro baptisms for 1770's and hope I have more luck!

On another note, I remember we're cousins from Candelaria and while at the conference in SLC I discovered 2 more cousins...sister who were there, also with Candelaria ancestors...perhaps they match with you as well.

Thanks again,

Nancy Jean

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive.

[Gayle Machado]

Nancy Jean,

I'm always looking for more cousins. I find the migration patterns fascinating. If you remember who these people you met are, maybe we can find a connection. No rush. I have to get through finals week next week before I have time to play.

Take care,

Gayle

On May 8, 2012, at 5:49 PM, "nancy jean baptiste" <fishso...@hotmail.com<mailto:fishso...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Gayle,

Thank you for the insights. I was at such a loss to comprehend this record. This priest's handwriting is just awful. Your confirmation of the date opens up further mystery since I was looking for the marriage of my 4th ggrandmother, Marianna Clara's parents. On Mariana's marriage record in June 9, 1800 her age is given as 26 years old and I spent a whole day looking at all the baptisms in Velas for 1770"s and never could find her....so I thought maybe if I could find her parents marriage and look for other siblings I could find her along the way or perhaps other clues. I started with 1750 on a whim thinking that I'd be too far back but at least I wouldn't miss it by not going far enough back. I was very surprised to find them in 1753 but I'm sure it's them. On Marianna's marriage to Antonio Pereira her parents are given as Joam de Sousa Cardoso/a? and Isabel do Rosario and since men sometimes take their mother's name as well as their father's I think that's what he did. That puts their marriage 21 years before Marianna's presumed birth date but I've seen that with my Pereira family so I know it's possible. With your information I'm wondering if I should look in Santo Amaro for Marianna's birth instead of Velas....maybe they moved there and that's why I couldn't find her anywhere in Velas in the 1770's. Thanks for your help....now I know Isabel's parents names. I wish the records from these times gave the ages of the couple since it's a valuable clue when looking for birth records! Also, I couldn't tell if Joam was the son Of Joam Teixeira or Pereira and now Peixeiro? is in the mix. Perhaps someone else will give insight into that surname. I have Peixodo's in my record but I've never seen Peixeiro before. I'll spend tomorrow looking for Marianna in Santo Amaro baptisms for 1770's and hope I have more luck!

On another note, I remember we're cousins from Candelaria and while at the conference in SLC I discovered 2 more cousins...sister who were there, also with Candelaria ancestors...perhaps they match with you as well.

Thanks again,
Nancy Jean

> From: <mailto:gayle....@fresnocitycollege.edu> gayle....@fresnocitycollege.edu<mailto:gayle....@fresnocitycollege.edu>
> To: <mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com> azo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please! Translation help!
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:15:33 +0000
>
> Nancy,
>
> I'm going to take a wild stab at the basics and let others shoot me down:
> 9 Jan 1753 for the date.
> Joam de Sousa, son of Joam (Peixeiro ) and Luzia Cardoza, natural of Sto. Amaro
> and
> Isabel do Rosario, daughter of Joam Machado Costa and (Micaela) do Rosario of this matrix.
>
> Among the signatures at the end of the record it shows a Joam Machado (Rocha) Costa along with Vital Pereira Fagundes.
>
> Gayle
>

> From: nancy jean baptiste <fishso...@hotmail.com<mailto:fishso...@hotmail.com><mailto:fishso...@hotmail.com>>
> Reply-To: <azo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com><mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com>>
> Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:36:00 -0500
> To: azores group <azo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com><mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please! Translation help!
>
> Greetings Group,
>
> I have found my 5th ggrandparents marriage record in Velas.....I'm having a very hard time translating his writing and all help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Velas, Sao Jorge...marriages for 1734-1772 page 0102, Joam de Sousa and Isabel do Rosario
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Nancy Jean
>
> --

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Azores+un...@googlegroups.com<mailto:Azores+un...@googlegroups.com><mailto:Azores+un...@googlegroups.com>. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive.

> For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Azores+un...@googlegroups.com<mailto:Azores+un...@googlegroups.com>. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive.
> For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."

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For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at <http://groups.google.com/group/Azores> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."

[rca...@redshift.com]

Nancy Jane,

My first thought was that the father's name was Teixeira.

Rosemarie >

> Thanks again,Nancy Jean

[Margaret Vicente]

Hi,

If I may, I would like the point out the surname is TEIXEIRA.  Simply because there are lower and upper letters interjecting with the T rendering it like the letter P, illusive.

best,

Margaret

Margaret M Vicente

[nancy jean baptiste]

Thank you Rosemarie and Margaret for confirming the Teixeira name. I spent time searching for Marianna's birth with no luck....elusive ancestors! I'm happy though because this record gives me on generation beyond what I had!

Again, thanks,

Nancy Jean

---

Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 21:13:48 -0400

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please! Translation help!

From: margare...@gmail.com
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

[Margaret Vicente]

Nancy Jean,

What is the record number for Mariana's marriage record?  It should say which freguesia/town she's from...I could take a look it if you would like.

Margaret

[nancy jean baptiste]

Hi Margaret,

I'd appreciate any information that you can glean from the record....it's very difficult to read. Velas marriages, 1788-1806, page # 72. Record # 1355.                                           June 4, 1800, Antonio Jose de Sousa Pereira, 23 yrs with Marianna Clara do Espirito Santo, 26yrs. I believe his parents are Manoel Pereira de Sousa and Isabel de Jesus and her parents are given as Joao de Sousa Cardosa and Isabel do Rosario.

I thought Marianna would be easy to find but I just can't find her anywhere in Velas baptism's for the 1770's or in Santo Amaro. Tomorrow I'll look at the 1760's for Velas now that I know her parents married in 1753......I can't imagine she would be that far off on her age on her marriage certificate though but you never know and I have no other idea to investigate although having found her parents marriage record makes finding her baptism a bit less imperative. I'll also start looking for her father's obit since her marriage says he was dead by 1800 and for her siblings.

This is my Mom's line and I've had much more difficulty with it than with my Dad's. With him I had help because our Baptista line was in both Joao Simoes Lopes Filho's and Marcio Borba's data bases and the records are in Topo for the most part and his mothers de Castro Cardoso line is all in NEPS for Pico.

The most comforting thing about this research is that I know I'll never run out of the need to search for someone....nice to know that as long as I can I'll have a passion to pursue!

My best to you,

Nancy Jean

---

Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 20:24:53 -0400

[Margaret Vicente]

Nancy Jean,

It says he parents are parishoners of this church and naturals of this
matrix of Velas island of S. Jorge.

Also since her parents marriage record you found is in Velas, I would
search birth records as of the marriage date. I did find a Mariana
born within your Mariana Clara's 26 age (1975/1976) Mother Isabel
Miranda and of incognito father. Which should not be discarded as a
possibility. This would prompt me to trace Isabel's birth record to
see if Miranda is her family name.

My gggm born in Sao Jorge, Calheta of Incognito father married in Sao
Miguel, with the marriage record stating she was the daughter of
Antonio Jose de Miranda of Graciosa, NS da Luz. Thus the possibility
the father was incognito at time of birth and then perhaps reconciled,
married and assumed the child.

Good Luck.

Margaret

> Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 20:24:53 -0400
> Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please! Translation help!
> From: margare...@gmail.com
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com
>
> Nancy Jean,
> What is the record number for Mariana's marriage record? It should say
> which freguesia/town she's from...I could take a look it if you would like.
> Margaret
>
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 4:23 PM, nancy jean baptiste
> <fishso...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you Rosemarie and Margaret for confirming the Teixeira name. I spent
> time searching for Marianna's birth with no luck....elusive ancestors! I'm
> happy though because this record gives me on generation beyond what I had!
>
> Again, thanks,Nancy Jean

[Margaret Vicente]

correction, Mariana's birth time 1774/1775..
Margaret

--
Margaret M Vicente

[nancy jean baptiste]

Thank you, Margaret,

I guess I just assumed that since her marriage record gave her parents that they were as stated.....I suppose she could have a pai incognito although if her parents married in 1753 and she wasn't born until 1774/75 she should be legitimate. I'm going to spend time searching baptisms in Velas and look at some obits and see what I can find. I appreciate your insights.

Luck I'll need!!!!

Nancy Jean

> Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 10:41:53 -0400

[Margaret Vicente]

Nancy Jean, 

Found your Mariana...she was born 10-Jun-1764 pls. see 1752-1765.0176 also attached here for you.

Attached is a copy.  Also see siblings

Maria 25-Jan-1756, 1752-1765.0054

Jose 02-Dec-1758, 1752-1765.0099

Isabel 03-Jan-1761, 1752-1765.0144

There may be more children after Mariana.

Margaret

[nancy jean baptiste]

Thank you, Margaret!!!!

I appreciate your help more than you can know! Her marriage on June 9, 1800 says she's 26! He was 23.....in reality she's marrying 1 day after her 36th birthday.....13 years older than Antonio. I had begun looking at the baptisms and found the first sibling, Manuel, Jan. 24, 1754. I can't imagine that people didn't know she was really 36 instead of 26. Now I'll figure out how many children she and Antonio actually had since she started late! I'll also see if there are additional children after Mariana.

Again, my thanks for finding my elusive 4th ggrandmother,

Nancy Jean

---

Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 00:38:13 -0400

[Margaret Vicente]

It was a quick find due to the parent's marriage date... think nothing
of it, Nancy Jean.

Good luck with finding her children and siblings.

Margaret

On 5/13/12, nancy jean baptiste <fishso...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Margaret!!!!
> I appreciate your help more than you can know! Her marriage on June 9, 1800
> says she's 26! He was 23.....in reality she's marrying 1 day after her 36th
> birthday.....13 years older than Antonio. I had begun looking at the
> baptisms and found the first sibling, Manuel, Jan. 24, 1754. I can't imagine
> that people didn't know she was really 36 instead of 26. Now I'll figure out
> how many children she and Antonio actually had since she started late! I'll
> also see if there are additional children after Mariana.
> Again, my thanks for finding my elusive 4th ggrandmother,Nancy Jean
>
>

> Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 00:38:13 -0400
> Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please! Translation help!
> From: margare...@gmail.com
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com
>
> Nancy Jean,
> Found your Mariana...she was born 10-Jun-1764 pls. see 1752-1765.0176 also
> attached here for you.
> Attached is a copy. Also see siblingsMaria 25-Jan-1756, 1752-1765.0054

> Jose 02-Dec-1758, 1752-1765.0099Isabel 03-Jan-1761, 1752-1765.0144

[Shirley Allegre]

Hi Nancy:  I looked at the Velas film and found the following:

 

#645   Page 100 right

DOMarriage:  9 Jan 1753

Joam de Sousa

Parents:

(Joam Teixeira X Lusia Cardosa)

natives & baptised  Santa Barbara

WIFE:

Isabel do Rosario

(Joam Machado Costa X Micaella _____ Rosario)

natives and bapt. Velas

 

Hope this helps.      Shirley in CA

----- Original Message -----

From: nancy jean baptiste

To: azores group

Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 12:36 PM

Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please! Translation help!

--

[nancy jean baptiste]

Thank you, Shirley,

I appreciate your help on this.

I've been searching for the children of Joam and Isabel and also for Joam's obit which I found. I could certainly use some help with the record. I think it says he died August 13, 1797 and was 63 years old. I hope someone will confirm that for me. Also, usually there's more information in the record regarding occupation, number of children etc and I can't seem to see any of that. Could someone tell me the other information held in the record? It can be found in VELAS OBITS FOR 1790-1800, PG. #0072, jOAO DE SOUSA CARDOSO MARRIED TO ISABEL DO ROSARIO.

Thank you for any help,

Nancy Jean

---

From: shi...@digitalpath.net

To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please! Translation help!

Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:10:51 -0700

[Shirley Allegre]

I looked at the "obito" for Joao de Sousa Cardoso today.  This is how I read it:

This is on page 54 right

 

DOD:  13 August 1797, Velas, Sao Jorge, Azores

Joao de Sousa Cardoso

age 63

ate sacraments

Buried this Matriz

SPOUSE

Isabel do Rosario

Parochial of Santo Amaro, termo Velas

That is the best that I could do.

 

I found the following birth info:

DOB 1? June 1731

BAPT  3? June 1731, Velas, Sao Jorge, Azores  ((page 15 RightCenter)

Isabel

(Joam Machado Costa, native N.S. Rosario -Rosais (Sao Jorge)

X Mecia da Rosario, native Velas)

GODPARENTS

Joam Manoel Teixeira de Betancurt

& Joanna de Resureicao

(Manoel Silveira de Sousa X Maria Camacha)  both deceased

residents if Beira

[nancy jean baptiste]

Hi Shirley,
 
I'm sorry for the slow response but the holiday has had me "out of pocket".
 
Thank you so much for your help! I appreciate your confirmation of Joao's record and I especially appreciate your finding Isabel do Rosario's baptism for me. Each time another generation is added I'm thrilled.
 
Thanks again and have a great day,
Nancy Jean
 

---

From: shi...@digitalpath.net
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Please! Translation help!

Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:33:48 -0700

[Shirley Allegre]

You're Welcome.