New Melbourne Alphas?

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Mark Sanders

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Jul 19, 2019, 12:42:52 AM7/19/19
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Hi all

I just picked up a copy of the latest Melway, and discovered quite a few new alpha routes in Melbourne's outskirts. These new routes are...

B77 - Sayers Rd/Old Geelong Rd (Fitzgerald Rd to Derrimut Rd)
A81 - Leakes Rd (Fitzgerald Rd to Derrimut Rd)
A91/B91 - Palmers Rd/Dunnings Rd (Western Fwy to Point Cook Rd)
A93 - Forsyth Rd (Old Geelong Rd to Leakes Rd)
B94 - Dohertys Rd (Grieve Pde to Derrimut Rd)
B668 - Pound Rd (Shrives Rd to Narre-Warren Cranbourne Rd)

Also MR56 has been shortened at its western end due to the new B94 route. It now ends at the Grieve Pde/Dohertys Rd roundabout
MR77 and MR40 are still marked in the western suburbs

I know there was a revamp taking place, but I was expecting new MR routes. Perhaps this is correct, or maybe Melway did a stuff up.

Would be interested to find out

Cheers 

Mark Sanders

barbs

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Jul 23, 2019, 6:17:57 AM7/23/19
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This is very interesting! Will pick up the latest Melway now sooner than I had planned to check it out. I do love how Melway's always have the best detail & information (in my opinion anyway)

MisterMarcus

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Jul 26, 2019, 5:51:29 AM7/26/19
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Surely this can't be right?

'A' routes are supposed to be for major inter- or intra-state highways, or roads like the old Princes Highway through Geelong that's been bypassed by an M route. 

Using 'A' for local roads like Leakes Road and Palmers Road makes no sense. Especially when similar surrounding local roads are all 'C' roads.


On Friday, 19 July 2019 14:42:52 UTC+10, Mark Sanders wrote:

Peter Freeman

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Jul 27, 2019, 1:02:16 AM7/27/19
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Yes, interesting and somewhat puzzling.

Regarding the usage of the A prefix - it's been allocated very sparingly for rural Victoria, but in the metro area (where the numbers will be 7x, 8x, and 9x; and xx, xxx) it makes sense that there will be A's, B's and C's. Palmers, Leakes and Forsyth are all good candidates for an A because each one has major expansion and extension proposals. For example, Palmers Road and its corridor extensions will become a major N-S route, acting as a partial outer orbital until the OMR is constructed. Therefore it is awarded the first prize: A91, the most significant non-motorway metro alpha-numeric.

It seems that someone (VicRoads?) in Melbourne is working on a very long-term vision, which is welcome.

Regarding these alpha-numerics appearing in Melway now - it's perhaps another sign (amongst various recent hints) that the metro rollout is approaching. ie more than just the few Cxxx's on the outskirts. This development also indicates that it will be, whenever it happens, a very gradual rollout. by the way, have we seen any metro B's yet?

Of course, it could be an editing failure (or a leak) on the part of VicRoads or Melway, but they haven't just made those interesting numbers up.

Mark Sanders

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Jul 27, 2019, 4:50:52 PM7/27/19
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I do recall seeing a post about an A51 sign appearing on Plenty Rd at McKimmies Rd recently. Perhaps this is the start of a rollout

Sam Laybutt

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Jul 28, 2019, 9:59:36 PM7/28/19
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The new routes are part of the Melbourne metro numbering which will be A & B. The existing C routes were allocated same when they were part of the rural numbering. Hopefully there will be some progressive changing of numbers or prefixes to iron out any legacy issues.


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Subject: [Aussie Highways] Re: New Melbourne Alphas?
 
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Peter Freeman

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Jul 29, 2019, 1:13:17 AM7/29/19
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So no C-routes for Melbourne metro area?

Regarding the numeric zones, my belief was that 1-6 were for rural use and 7-9 for metro. I assumed that the early appearance of C7xx's was a tentative launch of metro, carefully beginning at the edges!

A different interpretation could be that the 7 zone is a ring-shaped rural zone just outside the city, with 8 and 9 being internal (Greater Melbourne) …?

I must say that I'm not impressed with the alpha-numeric systems, either in their state-to-state differences, the inter-state non-uniqueness, or many of the Vic details. Fortunately, I also believe that it is all of no consequence for the public's navigation purposes, because Joe Public does not understand or care what the numbers mean - and why should he? The fact that a route has a number that can be followed is sufficient for him. 
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Sam Laybutt

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Jul 29, 2019, 3:18:00 AM7/29/19
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I doubt there will be any new C routes in Melbourne metro area. 


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Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: New Melbourne Alphas?
 

Alex Csar

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Jul 29, 2019, 4:28:44 AM7/29/19
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The A51 signs currently appear on the first stage of the Plenty Road upgrade, from McKimmies Road to Bush Boulevard. I would expect the A51 signage to be further extended up to Bridge Inn Road once that stage gets built. (Also, by the way, the signage for Child’s Road leaves a nice little space for a route number down the track.)

As for the western alphas shown in the new Melway, there’s no sign (pun not intended) of those numbers on the ground. My guess is that a document relating to the Western Metro MRPV scheme has landed in the hands of Melway and the numbers shown - planned, specimen or otherwise - somehow ended up in the book. (Same could go for the South Eastern Metro project for Pounds Road.) Of course, this could also be a massive copyright trap scheme, playing off the presumed ambivalence of drivers to route numbering schemes.

Cheers,
Alex.

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Omegaville

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Jul 31, 2019, 5:23:14 AM7/31/19
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Spot on Peter - route numbers are of interest to the roadgeeks but not
Joe Public.

Nihat

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Jul 31, 2019, 5:38:38 AM7/31/19
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Sam Laybutt

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Jul 31, 2019, 9:47:05 PM7/31/19
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Apparently B668 at Narre Warren has been signed. Anyone been out there?


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Subject: [Aussie Highways] Re: New Melbourne Alphas?
 
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Brad Forbes

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Aug 7, 2019, 12:52:55 AM8/7/19
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Yes, has been signed but only at the northern Shrives Rd end.

Is this now the shortest 'B' route in Victoria?
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Harley Bird

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Aug 14, 2019, 10:01:15 PM8/14/19
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Yes, it would make it the shortest currently if it only runs from Shrives Rd to Narre Warren-Cranbourne Rd, it'd make it just over 3km. Baanip Boulevard (B130) is just over 4km so it's the shortest at present.

Mark Sanders

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Sep 29, 2019, 10:01:03 AM9/29/19
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I can report yet another new Alpha today. I noticed signage on Epping Rd for a new B7 series route along Ohearns Rd in Epping (B719?)

It will be interesting to see how it will be signed on the Hume Freeway end once the interchsange is complete 

Mark Sanders

MisterMarcus

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Oct 10, 2019, 2:19:13 AM10/10/19
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Saw another new one just now. Near Essendon station, listing Mt Alexander Road as A60

Peter Freeman

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Oct 10, 2019, 11:27:58 PM10/10/19
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Well, there goes my understanding that 1-6 was rural, 7-9 metro.

Omegaville

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Oct 11, 2019, 8:44:15 AM10/11/19
to aussie-...@googlegroups.com, Peter Freeman

That's only for two-digit routes.  A60 will be in place of/extending MR60 north from Flemington Rd up Mt Alexander Rd all the way to Essendon junction, where it meets MR37 (Lincoln Rd and Bulla Rd).  Whether Keilor Rd becomes A60 remains to be seen... MR60/A60 has replaced old NR79 so maybe it's possible. 

South of the city it's most likely A60 will replace ALT NR1 on the Princes Hwy corridor (Kingsway (or Kings Way if you prefer), Queens Rd, Queens Way, Dandenong Rd. Lonsdale St (Dandenong) etc.).

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Brad Forbes

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Dec 4, 2019, 10:53:06 AM12/4/19
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Looks like more new signs are popping up, this time B91 Palmers Rd out west:

https://twitter.com/DSisourath/status/1202121525328891906?s=19

Alex Csar

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Dec 4, 2019, 6:40:27 PM12/4/19
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For those playing at home the most recent Melway had Palmers Road marked as A91, so maybe some of the info supplied to them was correct. That said I would have expected Palmers Road to get an A-prefix as it will form a major cross-suburban route between Calder Park and Point Cook once fully developed.

Cheers,
Alex.

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 at 2:53 am, Brad Forbes <bradfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Looks like more new signs are popping up, this time B91 Palmers Rd out west:

https://twitter.com/DSisourath/status/1202121525328891906?s=19

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Mark Sanders

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Dec 9, 2019, 8:00:42 PM12/9/19
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I'm pretty sure the section of Palmers Rd/Robinsons Rd north of the Princes Fwy was classified as A91, with the section south of the freeway, through Point Cook, as B91


On Thursday, December 5, 2019 at 10:40:27 AM UTC+11, Alex Csar wrote:
For those playing at home the most recent Melway had Palmers Road marked as A91, so maybe some of the info supplied to them was correct. That said I would have expected Palmers Road to get an A-prefix as it will form a major cross-suburban route between Calder Park and Point Cook once fully developed.

Cheers,
Alex.
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 at 2:53 am, Brad Forbes <bradfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Looks like more new signs are popping up, this time B91 Palmers Rd out west:

https://twitter.com/DSisourath/status/1202121525328891906?s=19

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Alex Csar

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Dec 9, 2019, 8:02:18 PM12/9/19
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My error. I realised that the pic was from south of the freeway, which would have been B91 anyway.

Cheers,
Alex.

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MisterMarcus

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Dec 10, 2019, 1:52:14 AM12/10/19
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Yes I actually had a look at the most recent Melway last week.

Definitely A91 north of the freeway, but B91 south.

MisterMarcus

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Feb 1, 2020, 5:51:13 PM2/1/20
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As part of the Reservoir Level Crossing removal, they've made some changes to the intersection and added new road signs. All the new signs still have MRs on them, with no sign of coverplating or anything like that.

So any roll-out of Alphas seems like it's not going to be for a while, certainly not any sort of large scale or consistent roll-out. 


On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 2:42:52 PM UTC+10, Mark Sanders wrote:

Alex Csar

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Feb 20, 2020, 12:05:07 AM2/20/20
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Meanwhile, down in Carrum the McLeod Road extension to the Nepean Highway has opened (along with the rest of the level crossing removal works) with an ID featuring a new alpha in place of the expected SR3 shield. Unfortunately the resolution is too low to pick the number exactly but it's definitely an A-prefix. (Sidebar: would this number take over the Mornington-Mount Martha section of the B110 once rolled out?)

Cheers,
Alex.

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Sam Laybutt

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Feb 20, 2020, 1:00:45 AM2/20/20
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A50 for the Nepean Highway
Not sure on where it's going to transition to B110


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Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: New Melbourne Alphas?
 

MisterMarcus

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May 10, 2020, 3:17:43 AM5/10/20
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I saw a brand new sign on Somerton Road near Greenvale today that didn't feature any route number at all. 

Possibly just a typical screw-up....but I wonder if they're leaving out MR58 to prepare for a future alpha? Or possibly this section of Somerton Road is getting no Alpha at all?


MisterMarcus

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Jul 2, 2020, 8:28:34 PM7/2/20
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On the Thompsons Road upgrade site, there's an image showing Thompsons Road as "A16"

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Alex Csar

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Jul 6, 2020, 3:11:40 AM7/6/20
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Those original routes were in the 2020 Melways (Edition 47).

Cheers,
Alex.

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 17:08, Owen Luby <owen...@gmail.com> wrote:
Is that the 2021 Melways?

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Alex Csar

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Jul 13, 2020, 6:29:28 PM7/13/20
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Last night I was driving around Tarneit. (Full disclosure: I was viewing a car to buy, so it was a legitimate reason to be out during lockdown.) The intersection of Leakes Road and Sunset Views Boulevard featured an ID showing A81 (focal: Laverton / Williamstown). Of greater note, though, was an ID on Leakes Road WB for Derrimut Road showing A95 instead of C702.

Sorry that I couldn’t stop for photos - traffic wouldn’t allow it, and you can understand me not wanting to get out of the car unnecessarily.

Cheers,
Alex.

Alex Csar

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Jul 16, 2020, 9:24:47 PM7/16/20
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I made an error in my last post - the A81 ID sign mentioned actually read “Williamstown / City” instead.

Further travels along Leakes Road a couple of nights back showed up ADs, IDs and RDs all showing A81. Signage at Forsyth Road also show A93 - funnily enough, it gives directions northbound towards Truganina even though no road has been built north of Leakes Road. (I expect a massive coverplate to be installed shortly.)

I haven’t travelled further to see if any of the other alphas are visible yet, although I have yet to see a B77 on Sayers Road.

Cheers,
Alex.

Alex Csar

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Jul 26, 2020, 8:37:23 PM7/26/20
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I finally managed to take some photos on Saturday of signage along Leakes Road. Apart from previously mentioned signage was evidence of another new route, C815 on Foundation Road.

Cheers,
Alex.

Aevion

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Jul 27, 2020, 9:46:38 PM7/27/20
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To me the new signage is a bit of a mix of QLD and NSW styles.

Asher Purvis

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Sep 13, 2020, 9:39:15 AM9/13/20
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Hi! Always been fascinated by route numbering, and very exciting to see alphanumeric being rolled out across metro Melb.

I've kept an eye out - and have been able to notice a fair few pop up!


2. A60 on Cheltenham Rd approaching Dandenong - note that the MR9 and MR10 shields coverplate what I would assume to be 2 other alphas for Stud Rd and Cheltenham Rd.

3. (No photos sorry) South Gippsland Hwy (on the corner of the new Evans Rd/Hallam Rd intersection upgrade is signed as A21! Still signed as M420 on main approaches, but seems as though VicRoads is not coverplating local access roads.

4. Also saw a new sign (which has now been cover-plated) on Princes Hwy/Blackburn Rd signing Princes Hwy as A60, and Blackburn Rd as B29.

5. B716 on O'Herns Rd in Epping - note the lack of any focal point, likely to be M31 Hume Fwy/Somerton when O'Hern's road is finished! B716 could even extend all the way along Findon Rd when it is extended and duplicated to Plenty Road.

6. On North-East Link's interactive map - some new alphas are also revealed (http://nelprojectmap.u-c.com.au/index.html), M47 Greensborough Bypass, B43 Rosanna Rd, C939 for Greensborough Bypass local road, B970 for Elgar Rd.


Can't wait to see more pop up. Wish VicRoads would post something about it!

MisterMarcus

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Sep 13, 2020, 5:50:01 PM9/13/20
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Interesting...so clearly A60 will go down Mt Alexander Road, through the old NR79 route in the city, and then out Dandenong Road.....

Also interesting with the O'Herns Road sign, that C729 is being kept for Epping Road/High Street. I thought that might be upgraded (although perhaps Edgars Rd and Dalton Rd will be the main A/B north-south roads in this area??)

markra...@gmail.com

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Sep 14, 2020, 4:12:28 AM9/14/20
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Actually, Epping Rd has been C729 in this area since the late 90s. This part is just north of the MR29/C729 transition, which happens at McDonalds Rd (MR58). I would say that the metro section would be given a B route of some description. I’d doubt it would be given an A designation, but I could be wrong

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: MisterMarcus
Sent: Monday, 14 September 2020 7:50 AM
To: Aussie Highways

Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: New Melbourne Alphas?

 

Interesting...so clearly A60 will go down Mt Alexander Road, through the old NR79 route in the city, and then out Dandenong Road.....

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Omegaville

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Sep 20, 2020, 5:30:57 AM9/20/20
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And with all those, I'm officially out of roadgeeking.

Metropolitan Route Numbers, and by extension, freeway routes, National Routes and National Highways were the main reason I sought out this group in the first place.  It's been a good two decades but now it's time for me to give up.  I seriously dislike the alpha system... trying to turn our roads into Great Britain's system.  There's no M in FREEWAY dammit.

Signing off,

B.J.

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ed24f1

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Sep 20, 2020, 8:19:38 AM9/20/20
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Are the new alphas likely to replace State Routes eventually or are they safe?

MisterMarcus

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Sep 20, 2020, 5:36:04 PM9/20/20
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From the thread, it seems that Hopkins Road and South Gippsland Highway are getting changes from their existing route. Both of which make enormous sense.

I'd imagine a few of the urban/rural fringe roads that were originally signed "C" will be upgraded to "A" or "B" now the development has caught up with them. It will be interesting to see how that interfaces with the existing route network (e.g. would Plenty Road or Wellington Road magically revert to a "C" road at some arbitrary point where it's judged as a rural road?)

Asher Purvis

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Sep 21, 2020, 4:28:55 AM9/21/20
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Definitely interesting to see what they'll do to the roads which transverse through urban centres and then become rural/semi-rural roads. Especially because C727 (Plenty Road) is very developed until Mernda, then becomes a rural road to Whittlesea. Where does C727 end and A51 start for Plenty Road? 
Also will be interesting to see roads like B110 Nepean Hwy transition. As it has been noted, A50 was seen on a Nepean Hwy sign, where does B110 end and A50 start?

Paul Rands

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Sep 21, 2020, 5:20:33 AM9/21/20
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Well IMO that's a silly reason to give it away. And outside of Melbourne, there's still a full set of SRs in WA, plus plenty still in service in QLD, NT as well.

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MisterMarcus

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Oct 7, 2020, 5:17:07 PM10/7/20
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Interestingly, a few of these have now started appearing on the Wikipedia pages. Not sure if it's anything official or just a fellow roadgeek, but still....

stuarthwy87

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Oct 7, 2020, 5:37:52 PM10/7/20
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Its me whos updating them
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kakaduhwyA21 (formerly stuarthwy87)

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Oct 10, 2020, 5:32:19 AM10/10/20
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Hi Everyone

Just updating Wikipedia where I stumbled upon the C612.


Does C612 go to NSW or not

Thanks,
~~~~

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 2:01:05 PM UTC+11 kakaduhwyA21 (formerly stuarthwy87) wrote:
here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_routes_in_the_Northern_Territory

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 8:38:15 AM UTC+11 arnhemhwya36 (formerly stuarthwy87) wrote:
and the same goes with the NT alphas

barbs

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Oct 10, 2020, 8:16:08 AM10/10/20
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kakaduhwyA21 (formerly stuarthwy87)

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Oct 11, 2020, 1:19:05 AM10/11/20
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But there isn't any signs in Delegate, NSW

time to report a vandalizer.

Sam Laybutt

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Oct 11, 2020, 8:42:54 PM10/11/20
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It definitely ends at the NSW Border.



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Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: New Melbourne Alphas?

Brad Forbes

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Oct 23, 2020, 12:21:15 AM10/23/20
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Some new overhead signage along the Monash Fwy has revealed another new alpha, B675 for Belgrave-Hallam Road. 

The Princes Hwy exit also has new signage showing Alt-1 and C101 on what appears to be a coverplate.

kakaduhwyA21 (formerly stuarthwy87)

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Oct 23, 2020, 2:02:46 AM10/23/20
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time to update wikipedia :)

Mappinson

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Oct 23, 2020, 3:32:59 AM10/23/20
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I can't wait to map all these new routes, and to make some more fridge magnets

DSCF1409a.jpgDSCF1413a.jpg

kakaduhwyA21 (formerly stuarthwy87)

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Oct 23, 2020, 6:19:29 AM10/23/20
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noice

Sam Laybutt

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Oct 25, 2020, 8:55:16 PM10/25/20
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These are actually really cool


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Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: New Melbourne Alphas?
I can't wait to map all these new routes, and to make some more fridge magnets

DSCF1409a.jpgDSCF1413a.jpg

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MisterMarcus

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Nov 1, 2020, 10:26:50 PM11/1/20
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Was driving down Fitzgerald Road in Laverton North today. New signage at Dohertys Road (B94) and Leakes Road (A81) showing some new of the new alphas.

Fitzgerald Road is signed "A77", so clearly it's just extending the B77  from Old Geelong Road

kakaduhwy21

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Nov 5, 2020, 2:36:14 AM11/5/20
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@MisterMarcus

Does A77 run on the entire Fitzgerald Road 

I'm currently updating wikipedia and it looks bad


Thanks

MisterMarcus

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Nov 5, 2020, 5:57:34 AM11/5/20
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I only saw signs at the Dohertys Road and Leakes Road intersection, where they'd installed new signage. Other intersections still had old signage with no alphas.

kakaduhwy21

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Nov 5, 2020, 3:12:35 PM11/5/20
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thanks

MisterMarcus

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Nov 8, 2020, 12:02:55 AM11/8/20
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More observations from that area:

B94 is completely signed from Grieve Parade to Palmers Road. At Grieve Parade, I saw one sign directing B94 north: possibly will continue along Blackshaws Road as per existing MR56, or perhaps will run along Grieve Parade to Princes Hwy?

A77 along Fitzgerald Road uses 'Delahey' and 'Taylors Lakes' as some of its focals. I wonder if that means it will run along Boundary Road, Station Road and Kings Road? Part of the existing Kings Road is signed MR77 so it would make sense....

MisterMarcus

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Nov 23, 2020, 4:07:49 AM11/23/20
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At the newly-opened Forsyth Road and Old Geelong Road intersection, Forsyth Road is signed 'A93' in both directions.

Old Geelong Road seems to be signed C701 on a coverplate. Ashcroft Avenue also has a coverplate over a route number.

barbs

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Nov 24, 2020, 8:16:45 AM11/24/20