New Melbourne Alphas 2

[NumberMX]

The previous New Melbourne Alphas thread has reached 800 posts and even the Google Groups website now struggles to load the thread properly. It was suggested there to perhaps make a new thread, so I figured I'd make one.

Something to start off: A while ago we learned that Old Dandenong Rd will be getting an alpha, with a coverplated route number near the Centre Dandenong Rd roundabout. But I recently read that SRL is actually going to permanently close off a section of Old Dandenong Rd near Kingston Rd, splitting it in two.

So I wonder what happens now: 2 separate alphas for each half, in which case maybe the sign has to be modified with a new number, or do they decide that Old Dandenong Rd is no longer important enough and abandon the number altogether? Curious to see what happens.

[Peter Freeman]

Which section to close exactly, and why?

[Sam L]

From the link in NumberMX's post:

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Subject: [Aussie Highways] Re: New Melbourne Alphas 2

 

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[NumberMX]

Yep - it's the section between Kingston Rd and Henry St, in order to build the "Heatherton Stabling Facility" for trains that will use the Suburban Rail Loop. https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/library/suburban-rail-loop/fact-sheets/heatherton-stabling-facility

On Tuesday 6 August 2024 at 2:48:02 pm UTC+10 Sam L wrote:

From the link in NumberMX's post:

[Peter Freeman]

Oops - 'SRL' didn't ring a bell for me, and I didn't follow the link!

I suppose the southern part will keep the number that's under the coverplate, and the northern part might get a number shared with Burke Road and Osborne Avenue. The isolated part in the middle becomes rather useless, so it gets no number?

[Aaron Polidano]

Thanks NumberMX for this new thread. Its going to be a lot easier to follow new updates now!!

That section of Old Dandenong Road was already deemed useless and decayed once the Dingley Bypass was created anyway. The 3 digit alpha would probably just stop on Kingston Road

[z386x]

Mapillary getting a lot of recent updates for Craigieburn area, noticed theres a few new signs up for Aitken Blvd up with coverplated alphas. Only thing is looking at the Mickleham sign the coverplate to me at least looks too small for a 3 digit, just wondering how a 2 digit alpha would fit in here, assuming A81 will replace MR35 and Mickleham Rd is indeed A83 from that comment from MRPV saying it was. Maybe it's A67, considering Sydney Rd is A65?

[ARandom PersonUDK]

HI guys! First post.

There's new signs at the intersection of Sth Gippsland Hwy and Thompsons Rd (sorry i have no pictures). Sth Gippsland Hwy is B21 south of Thompsons Rd (don't know if this has been mentioned before).The new signs approaching the intersection southbound indicate that the turnoff to Phillip Island is to go via Thompsons Rd and A404. Looks like they're promoting a bypass route for through traffic.

[z386x]

Welcome ARandom PersonUDK!

Nice find, B21 was visible at the Cameron St/SG Hwy intersection but didn't know how far B21 went to, good to finally get confirmation!

[MisterMarcus]

So I assume it's going to be "B21" until the Koo Wee Rup turnoff, and then A21 thereafter (With 'through traffic' directed via the new M420 along Koo Wee Rup Road)?

[z386x]

@MisterMarcus not exactly, it will be B21 between Thompsons Rd and Cameron St intersection, then return to A21 from Cameron St until the Koo Wee Rup turnoff. Through traffic from Melbourne on the Monash I'm sure will still be pushed to the C422/new M420 (based on the massive Warragul coverplates on some of the signs on the Monash - I'm sure underneath will show TO Phillip Island or something similar). This whole A21 > Thompsons Rd > A404 > back to A21, whilst confusing from a route number point of view, seems like it's an alternate but still prominent way of travelling to Phillip Island (hence why sings on A404 still show TO Phillip Island). The short B21 section is just the through route through Cranbourne.

[AlienChex]

Does the Koo Wee Rup Bypass have plans to be widened? Currently it’s only two lanes between the newly widened KWR Road and SG Highway. If this is to become the new M420 it will need to be the same standard

[z386x]

@AlienChex I believe the eventual plan is to upgrade the entire road to full freeway standard, so I'd image that short section would be upgraded in the future as part of that. In the interim I assume they'll just post it as M420, even though it's only 2 lanes. The final part of the M11 is also only 2 lanes so whilst is goes against about every guideline for an M road, it guess exceptions do exist :/

[Aaron Polidano]

The single lane sections will be used as a potential on-off ramp with a divided section will fly over the current road. That's why it's only single lane and also a weird angle from the double roundabouts

On Friday 20 September 2024 at 16:44:37 UTC+10 AlienChex wrote:

[Derek Wells]

Good find z386x! 

Big Build Roads (formerly MPRV) got back to me, and confirmed that Aitken Blvd will be A69!

Went past there last week managed to get some more photos. Cover-plates on most of the Aitken Blvd/Craigieburn Rd signs. Craigieburn Rd focal points are Epping (cover-plate over what I assume is Wollert?) and Oaklands Junction (despite A72 technically ending at Mickleham Rd, for now). Aitken Blvd focal points are Mickleham (makes sense once the extension to Donnybrook Rd opens) and Broadmeadows. 

Interesting Broadmeadows is seemingly a cover-plate on the AD sign, near Central Pk Ave and Aitken Blvd southbound. Don't know if that means the Aitken Blvd (E14) southern extension still remains in the plans, with another focal point planned (City? Tullamarine?), or just covering a signage mistake?

On Friday, September 6, 2024 at 10:06:09 AM UTC+10 z386x wrote:

[MisterMarcus]

No photos unfortunately, but I just saw a new sign on CityLink confirming that the West Gate Tunnel will be M4. 

[MisterMarcus]

Is anyone else having problems with their posts being deleted?

I've made several posts that aren't objectionable in any way, that have been deleted almost immediately without comment. 

On Tuesday, September 24, 2024 at 3:44:19 PM UTC+10 Derek Wells wrote:

[z386x]

Found this uploader on YouTube recently has a few new videos up every few days with some new sightings:

M4 West Gate Tunnel visible just after 14min mark here.

A21/B21 signs on Thompsons Rd just after 7:30 min mark here (guessing this is what ARandom PersonUDK mentioned before - bit blurry but can make it out)

PS @MisterMarcus, nothing seems to be deleting for me, that's really bizzare :/

[NumberMX]

I haven't had a problem with Google Groups messages being deleted, but it has happened to me randomly in YouTube comment sections - perhaps Google has a similar filter for Groups forums?

Interesting that the M4 sign says West Gate Tunnel for the road name - that location is the ramp to the elevated road above Footscray Rd. Does that mean the elevated section is also being called West Gate Tunnel, despite not being a tunnel?

I was on Thompsons Rd on Monday approaching South Gippsland Hwy from the east side - same as in that video. The sign says, straight ahead is MR6 to Patterson Lakes, right is A21 to Dandenong & City, and left is B21 to Cranbourne. There's also a new distance board sign just after you turn right onto South Gippsland Hwy, with A21 on it. However as I continued up the road, the sign at Glasscocks Rd and the signs at the Hallam Rd intersection still had M420 on them.

[ARandom PersonUDK]

[MisterMarcus]

Dunnings Road in Point Cook, west of Palmers Road, is now signed as C828 with 'Werribee East' as the focal. 

[z386x]

@ARandom PersonUDK At first I thought that was a new sign and they'd just forgotten to coverplate the A17, but looking at this I'm guessing they've removed the coverplate for this sign. Interesting, I thought they would wait until the entire Bells Rd is built and/or duplicated before revealing A17. Also does anyone else find it odd how both roads have Clyde on it?

@MisterMarcus Nice! Seems to make sense for that area, I'm wondering where C828 will go to though, looking at the map anywhere past Boardwalk Blvd I'm struggling to find where it may end (maybe Hacketts Rd considering?).

PS Just before posting this, using Maps and a quick Google search it seems like Werribee East isn't actually a suburb?? I just assumed it was.... that's real weird if that's the case.

[NumberMX]

I thought the reason this sign for Dunnings Rd was coverplated was because the future plan is to extend it over the Princes Fwy towards Werribee, and that hasn't been done yet, hence the route number & destination were hidden. A quick Google search came up with this PDF that shows it:

https://vpa-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Point-Cook-West-Precinct-Structure-Plan.pdf

You can see a full-page map between sections 1.5 and 2.0 that shows the extension. Table 5 also mentions "Extend Dunnings Road over the Princes Freeway", but from a quick scan I can't see any mention of where it's supposed to go after it crosses the freeway. In any case - seems too early for the route number to be revealed?

[MisterMarcus]

If you zoom further along Palmers Road in that Google Maps image, you can see a blank coverplated sign pointing westwards (right) at the intersection. 

That's the one I was referencing - it's now uncovered as 'Werribee East C828'. 

[Kay Blythman]

@z836x Considering that new signs on the West Gate Tunnel project have included such focal as "City West" and "City South", maybe "Werribee East" is allowed under that broad naming scheme?

[z386x]

@Kay Good point, I guess I've only associated them with City so far so I guess it valid. Another option could be maybe once the East Werribee Precinct is fully built up they will create a new suburb called 'Werribee East'.

Other news, this video here shows a few A17 signs for Bells Rd, the first one around 15:30 is the same picture @ARandom PersonUDK posted, but the second one at 15:45 is another previously covered sign here that has been uncovered. I guess A17 is now looking live for Bells Rd, at least the northern section?

[Matt C]

Hi all,
Excuse the terrible photo quality but I noticed a new sign on the M1 that shows Healesville-Koo Wee Rup Road signed as B422, which I'm assuming will be the section north of the freeway

[z386x]

@Matt C Cool find. Was somewhat kind of expecting something along the lines of this (with B121 and A404 recently getting similar modifications to the letter) but B422 for a route about 2km long? Seems bizarre to me.

[NumberMX]

Interesting, I thought it would stay as C422.

Phillip Island isn't on the sign? Wasn't that the whole point of the M420 realignment?

[Caden Blythman]

Could be likely that Phillip Island will appear on supplementary signage, like USE EXIT 52 or THIS EXIT or something?

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[Matt C]

This photo was taken heading towards the city so I guess Phillip Island isn't really much of a focal point coming from Gippsland. You'd probably take a more direct route like the C431 or B460

[ARandom PersonUDK]

Sign coming from the city

[z386x]

A few images I've spotted on some YouTube videos recently, it's all been mentioned here previously from memory.

[Fuzzbyroo]

I'm not sure if this has been reported yet but I saw an uncovered Ballarto Rd sign with the "B676" route number at the Cranbourne-Frankston Rd/Pearcesdale Rd roundabout in Cranbourne West. The rest of the Ballarto Rd signs between here and Western Port Hwy are all covereplated.

[Number]

That's a new one, nice find! I remember guessing it would be B674 based on a tiny, blurry sign in a design image for the Western Port Hwy upgrade - so much for that :)

So the numbering is kind of interesting then - Hall Rd is parallel and nearby, and it's B664, then somehow we're jumping up to 676 for Ballarto Road. But, in between, 668 is on Greaves Rd & O'Shea Rd which are way northeast of both of these roads. I wonder where the other even numbers (672 and 674) go then (and do they skip 666 for religious reasons?). Consider me baffled.

[Richo 84]

In December in Croydon, A44 was revealed for Kent Ave along with B25 on Wicklow Ave / Croydon Road near the newly completed Croydon Station and intersection upgrade. This slices up the current MR7 route. 

Interestingly, the previous thread mentioned A25 has been seen along the Frankston-Dandenong Rd, the current MR9 route. This perhaps means A25 continues north to the end of Stud Road, then potentially east along Mountain Hwy and north again (as B25) on Bayswater Road. It’s anyone’s guess as to what the remaining parts of MR7 will become. Perhaps Bxxx? 

And where A44 ends up? Maybe through Warranwood or even along Jumping Creek Rd, Wonga Park? Either way,  nothing terribly ‘A’ about any of it!

There has also been a blank (potentially 3 digit alpha) cover plate on Hull Rd in Mooroolbark at the Five Ways roundabout for sometime. 

[z386x]

@Richo 84 that's a great find, and also absolutely bizarre! Be keen to see some pics if you did manage to grab any :)

A25 is indeed for Frankston-Dandenong Road (it was actually unveiled in a MRPV image but has been cover plated now), so I've got no idea why they would split up MR9 & 7 as they are quite straightforward routes.

A44 is also weird as well, at first I thought maybe for the proposed Northern Arterial but that makes more sense to just continue as A/B56 based on the Lilydale location signs at Foote St/Williamsons Rd. It seems way too short to list A44 for the reminder of northern MR7 (to MR9/Croydon Rd end), but at the same time I can't see how else it could be done? Maybe somehow A44 runs up Ringwood Bypass then duplexes Maroondah Hwy? I really have no idea. 

I've found some new-ish videos the last month or so of some drives which go through recently updates areas. This video shows B21 and Hall Rd and this one shows the full length of A404, both from the same uploader (thanks!). Another uploader here has some nice videos too such as this one which shows a lot of B21's as well as an exposed A14 at around the 8min mark. Also B422 is now fully signed on the M1 both ways and can confirm that Warragul bound Phillip Island is indeed on the gantries (I think someone mentioned here that it was odd the other way didn't). I don't know if it's been posted here either but I read on one of the Facebook groups that Mickleham Road has it's first A83 revealed as well. 

[z386x]

Pic of the A44 and B25 sign here, if you have a look at more of these photos from this group there's actually quite a few uncovered alphas at this intersection such as these two other images and this video. Makes me think this is intentional and not accidentally uncovered.

What's just really odd and what I didn't realise is that Lacey St (which is the continuation on Kent Ave in the other direction) has no alpha as shown by these signs here. So therefore A44 begins at this intersection then heads to.... I have literally no idea. The A44 sign doesn't even have a focal point on it and just says 'KENT AV'. 

[MisterMarcus]

Is it possible that it's all a gigantic cluster-typo or something?

[z386x]

@MisterMarcus I actually think it might be, at least for the A44. TEM Vol 2 Part 2.17 here which was published last year and which I linked in the older thread has every instance of a coverplated alpha on the signage diagrams as either A44 and A444 (guessing as there the widest numbers as an example). I wonder if whoever made this sign has accidentally used the default A44 for Kent Av? I can see no logical reason why it would be an A route, and based on the few alphas we have so far number 44 does not seem to fit in this area at all (think the older TEM with the proposed signs from a few years back had A44 as Burwood Hwy? Which would make more logical sense if A36 is indeed FT Gully Rd and Pound/Greens Rd being B24.)

[Vaughan]

If you look closely at the blank coverplate you'll notice cleaned graffiti. I suspect the removal has something to do with that.

[Number]

@z386x "A44 and A444 (guessing as there the widest numbers as an example)"

No need to even guess - it's explicitly stated in the "old" 2015 TEM, on page 88:

[z386x]

A68 for Somerton Road found on Mapillary. By the looks of the other signs it's mistakenly uncovered. No more A83's at this intersection as well so I'm guessing MR39/C739 and MR58 are remaining for the time being. Also the quality of some of these cover plates is questionable...

A quick one though, what could the blank coverplate on the Mickleham Rd sign be? I'm thinking Wallan if A/B68 continues up Old Sydney Rd or if somehow Donnybrook Rd west of M31 follows on with A68 it could be Kalkallo? Not too sure.

[Number]

I wonder if the Kent Avenue A44 oddity happened because it won't get a route number in the new system? Looking at the Map of Declared Roads I notice Croydon Road is declared but Kent Avenue is not. That would explain why Croydon Road got B25 after not having a number, so perhaps Kent Avenue will do the reverse and lose its MR7 without a replacement.

If someone was following the instructions to-the-letter that tells them to put the new number under any sign with an MR shield, they probably got confused if they found out Kent Av's MR7 won't get a replacement, but the book told them they had to put one there, so they left the placeholder of A44.

[Sam Martin]

Update from Croydon signage.
Kent Avenue and Wicklow Avenue have been reinstated to State Route 7, while Croydon Road remains B25.

[Sam Martin]

[z386x]

@NumberMX after these pics that @Sam has posted (thanks!), think you're spot on. Knowing that a coverplated MR7 was going on Kent Ave they must have assumed A44 should be underneath but it really should be just blank. I thought they would also blank coverplate B25 Croydon Rd but as it's such a small segment maybe they're just leaving it (like how C953 is extensively signed, but only at the Main Rd end). Still intrigued how B25 plays in to the whole MR7/MR9 switch-up, but I think the B25 is correct. 

On Friday, 14 February 2025 at 15:18:46 UTC+10 Sam Martin wrote:

[Richo 84]

B54 has appeared on new signage for Mount Dandenong Tourist Rd at the Leith Rd / Mt Dandenong Rd intersection upgrade in Montrose. C401 / C415 is still shown on the new signage installed for the city bound Mt Dandenong Rd. It was too dark for me to see if it was a cover plate or not, will attempt a pic or two next time I head that way. 

[z386x]

Nice find @Richo84, just googled this group in the links and can roughly see the B54 here and the C401/C415 sign here. I'd be shocked based on the spacing if C401/C415 is not on a coverplate, guessing B54 will continue all the way towards Ringwood? (That will fit nicely assuming Reynolds Rd and the Northern Arterial continue with B56). Also based on this other direction here B54 uncovered seems to be a mixup and guessing it'll be covered soon.

[Richo 84]

Confirming that they are cover plates. Yes this B54 sign still remains uncovered as of this afternoon. The other signs in the intersection have been cover plated.  

[MisterMarcus]

Drove through there on the weekend.

One of the signs had an uncovered "A52" sign for Canterbury Road. 

[z386x]

Interesting, seems like the outer east is getting relatively mapped out then. Assuming Burwood Hwy is A44 (from the TEM), then going north has Burwood Hwy A44, Boronia Rd/Doncaster Rd B48 (MRPV), Canterbury Rd A52, Mt. Dandenong Rd B54 and Reynolds Rd/Northern Arterial B56. Potential routes then could be B46 for Mountain Hwy (which slots right between B48 and A44), and with Maroondah Hwy being a major highway, maybe that gets A30?

[Caden Blythman]

I also drove through the Mt Dandenong/Leith intersection last night (B54 was still uncovered on the sign we’ve been discussing). 

Slightly unrelated, is it just me, or do these new signs (and the ones at Kent Ave/etc.) have a sort of blue-green color rather than the deeper green of other areas? It’s almost at the old Freeway Green hue, though not quite as light. I thought it was just the pictures, but going through in person they seem to have a distinctly different color.

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[z386x]

@Caden I do agree, at least looking at the Kent Av signs posted here - definitely seems slightly different colours. Are these 2 upgrades (Kent Av/Croydon Rd and the Mt Dandenong Rd) upgrade funded by the state government? Wondering if it's somehow local councils putting up the signs, which have often looked a bit different to the MRPV/DOT standard signs.

Also on this intersection, found this screengrab from FB from another angle attached (apologies for the zoomed quality), the whole 'TO SWANSEA ROAD' road name just seems wrong, I guess it's correct in theory, but I feel it should say 'LEITH RD' in black on white and then on the sign have 'TO SWANSEA ROAD' in white on green above the destinations.

[z386x]

Just noticed Wikipedia is showing B676 all the way from Ballarto Rd to Seaford Rd, does anyone know has B676 been sighted up the Seaford Rd end?

[Richo 84]

A photo of the uncovered alphas on a sign on Montrose Road at the recently upgraded Montrose intersection with B54 and A52 still remains as of today. 

[Darren McSweeney]

I drove down there last night. The only signs with B676 are on Cranbourne-Frankston Rd. Western Port Hwy is still coverplated, and there's not been any additions to any signage west of there.

[Number]

If anyone's curious, the Princes Fwy has new Jan 2025 Street View pictures around the Pakenham area, with lots of new signs for Koo Wee Rup Rd (M420 & B422), and McGregor Rd (C695). Amusingly they misspelled "Rythdale" on this sign! All the other signs spell it correctly.

This sign 1km before the Koo Wee Rup Rd exit looks like they've patched the new route numbers on top of the old sign, while the 500m sign and final sign look new.

[AlienChex]

So will A404 take over the SGH between Cranbourne and Koo Wee Rup? If M420 moves to the new KWR Road, they should widen the bypass to handle the traffic.

[Peter Freeman]

Also on that streetview shot, it's good to see that the metering point onto M1 from new M420 is three lanes wide.

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Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2025 08:56
To: Aussie Highways <aussie-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] New Melbourne Alphas 2

 

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[z386x]

@NumberMX That Rythdale typo is hilarious :D

@AlienChex Nah A21 is continuing from SG Hwy/Cameron St to Koo Wee Rup. It goes A21 from Princes Hwy - Thompsons Rd, B21 from Thompsons Rd - Cameron St, then back to A21 to Koo Wee Rup. The 'A' route around B21 will follow Thompsons Rd (future A16) and Narre Warren Rd/Cameron St (A404).

[Matt C]

I don't really understand why they're doing that. If they don't want through-traffic to go through Cranbourne then why give it the same route number as the entire route? If you want to get from Dandenong to Koo Wee Rup it makes the most sense to make drivers follow route number 21 the entire way, so to me it would be more logical to route the A21 via Thompsons Road and Cameron Street so long-distance traffic can follow the one route number.

[Vaughan]

My guess is that B21 will shift onto the Cranbourne Bypass (if it's ever built) as 21, and be replaced by a C route.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/546cc7ee-37dd-4398-bf62-3ccdad7b2b74n%40googlegroups.com.

[Vaughan]

*A21

[Aaron Polidano]

If the MR32 section for Canterbury Rd/Swansea Rd is considered to be A52. Would we consider the entire MR32 route to be A52? Would make sense as this is a cross city route through Victoria Parade and onto Boundary Rd in the west

[Matt C]

I don't think so, because Boundary Road is allocated as B92 (though most of them are covered up). So at some point A52 ends and B92 begins. Perhaps the A52 will go via Docklands Highway/Francis Street to avoid going through Buckley Street in Footscray?

[z386x]

GSV finally starting to get some Jan/Feb 2025 images up after barely having any last year. I know someone mentioned here earlier that A17 is signed at the Bells Rd/O'Shea Rd intersection but weirdly looking at this sign here and here it's on a coverplate, no idea why since it's a relatively new sign to begin with. 

[Number]

And the End A17 sign is still there, so the route ends and then immediately begins again.

[MisterMarcus]

I have a funny feeling the original sign was blank (since Bells Road didn't go anywhere).

Maybe instead of the usual method of having a blank coverplate originally and then removing it, they instead started blank and coverplated a focal/route number instead?

[Vaughan]

I think Bells Rd itself was on the directional sign. Coverplate and the separate road name panel were added later.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/92111896-744d-4253-a23f-c05d0eaf1c8an%40googlegroups.com.

[z386x]

@MisterMarcus seems like this image from 2023 shows it as a blank coverplate. Maybe it was just incorrect route number and/or destination under it? It's happened before I guess.

[Number]

Apple Maps has some new photos of the upgraded Pound Rd West & Remington Drive in Dandenong South. (They're dated Jan 2024, but I remember that photos dated Jan/Feb 2023 didn't show up until early 2024, so it seems to take them a year to publish.)

They've got photos of signs mentioned in the old thread that mistakenly reveal M780 for the South Gippsland Fwy and B24 as the future MR12 replacement - I've attached them here. For comparison there's also a screenshot of a "correct" sign - I'm impressed by the picture quality, the coverplates stand out well.

[Caden Blythman]

Based on how loosely those coverplates are sitting on the signs you attached, looks like they may have just fallen off!!

Either way, good finds! Time to have to have a look through Apple Maps now to see what else is new.

On Apr 21, 2025, at 9:14 PM, Number <lleyt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Apple Maps has some new photos of the upgraded Pound Rd West & Remington Drive in Dandenong South. (They're dated Jan 2024, but I remember that photos dated Jan/Feb 2023 didn't show up until early 2024, so it seems to take them a year to publish.)

They've got photos of signs mentioned in the old thread that mistakenly reveal M780 for the South Gippsland Fwy and B24 as the future MR12 replacement - I've attached them here. For comparison there's also a screenshot of a "correct" sign - I'm impressed by the picture quality, the coverplates stand out well.

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<PoundRdWest1.png><PoundRdWest3.png><PoundRdWest2.png>

[z386x]

Good finds, still can't believe they had the chance to give it a single digit number but they've chosen M780....

[David S]

A820 spotted at the Sneydes Road / Point Cook Road intersection.

No signs up for Point Cook Road yet, but suspect its a two digit alpha continuation of MR41's replacement based on the overlays and new RD signs.

Somewhat of a pattern now in the west for east-west routes with the already active/spotted A92/B92, B94, A96, and this separate sequence of even three-digit alphas:

• A820 - Sneydes Road
• B828 - Dunnings Road
• A840/B840 - Heaths Road, Old Geelong Road, Ashcroft Avenue
• C844 - Little Boundary Road

Also spotted an exposed B853 for Fitzgerald Road on an ID sign at Swann Drive. 

Guessing this will only extend from the M80 ramps to Boundary Road as the non-standard LXRP green directional signs were replaced with local road signs for both Fitzgerald Road and Tilburn Road.

[z386x]

Others may have seen this but just checked out these videos from WGT that were uploaded the other month. Doesn't confirm any new alpha numbers but MR's seem to have an overlay similar to the TEM with X44 numbers on it. From it we can see that Footscray Rd, Williamstown Rd and Wurundjeri Way will be getting AXX numbers, and Dynon Rd and Hyde St will be getting CXXX. Also curious was the green background M4 sign for the timed toll, never seen anything like this before.

[Peter Freeman]

It's interesting to see the M4 exit numbers 1 and 3. I had been wondering whether the road would officially be motorway from Dynon Road, despite the at-grade Wurrundgeri Way crossroads and the signalised Footscray Rd spur (which would then have been exit 1 and exit 2 respectively, even though you can't exit westbound). But no: it seems that M4 starts at the Footscray Road spur (a notional exit zero). Therefore I suppose exit 1 is the M2 connectors, both ways; and exit 3 westbound is where Footscray Road merges in, matching Appleton Dock Road off-ramp eastbound ...? I assume exit 4 is Mackenzie Road, both ways, so where is exit 2 ? Permanently missing? Reserved for an 'E-W Link' tunnel? !!!

[Vaughan]

The new signs don't have the new routes overlaid as the project predates the alpha work. With that in mind, too early to know exactly what those roads will get.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/eef1eb2d-29a6-478e-a0c8-fbc7249bbd85n%40googlegroups.com.

[Number]

Great find with the A820, David. Although am I crazy for thinking that Sneydes Rd is more of a "B" road than an "A" road?

The exit numbering on the West Gate Fwy seems like a bit of a mess based on this signage. Williamstown Rd is W6, but Hyde St on the same exit ramp is W5A, and the West Gate Tunnel nearby is W5B... but then once you go over the West Gate Bridge, Todd Rd is exit W5! Given the proximity of exits to each other, wouldn't it have made more sense for Hyde St & the tunnel to be W6A and W6B?

[z386x]

@Number Maybe it was too 'hard' to rename all the existing exits. If exit W5 and W6 already existed, they would probably have to relabel every exit already existing to Duncans Rd (I believe that's where they begin, apologies if not), but by just naming new exits A and B, saves them doing more work. Bit silly though imo.

And as for Sneydes Rd A820 and not 'B' I agree. I wonder what the new Victoria definition of an 'A' road is? Previously I remembered reading 'A' roads serve the same as 'M' but on a single carriageway, but more recent updates around Australia have it as a road of national significance. I have no idea in what scenario Sneydes Road is a road of national significance. 

@Vaughan Just on that note whilst all the signs on WGF do look like they lack coverplates, at least one of the new signs under one of the bridges was on a coverplate from a video I saw a few months ago (I can't remember which one, but it was either MR37 or MR41).

[z386x]

@Number sorry my screen truncated the last part of your message after the ..., I didn't see the W6A and B bit - yeh that makes sense to me as well!

[z386x]

https://datashare.maps.vic.gov.au/search?q=uuid%3D8970aa3a-c4af-55bb-afeb-63d3e89bbd69

Just looking at Josh's post in the other thread about Future of Melbourne MR's, and I've found this new resource. It seems like the statewide route numbering scheme map has been completely removed from the DTP website and planning, but this new resource has popped up in the past few months. Unfortunately, unlike the old site it seems to be more designed towards an AutoCAD file and I'm not sure how to download it. I'm wondering if it has any new info on new alphas as it was last update 09-05-25 by the looks of it. Even if we can somehow get an extract of the data behind it.

[Luke W]

It's basically as per what the Victorian TEM suggests should happen - they have a diagram showing the allocated exit numbers when they went in, and then it says:

> These numbers should not be changed once signing has been erected. If additional exits are added that

> have not been allowed for on Figure 22 and Figure 23 [the diagrams showing the allocated exit numbers],

> then for the new exit, the previous lower value exit number should be used with an ‘A’ suffix added to

> the number (e.g. a new exit between EXIT 5 and 6 would be signed as EXIT 5A). Any subsequent new

> exits after that should then be numbered ‘B’, ‘C’, etc. 

Basically, once Williamstown Road was initially allocated exit W6, it's had to stay that way according to that. The A/B suffix is a bit of a mess when having to be combined with the E/W prefix for those inner M1 exits though!

[Caden Blythman]

One of the download formats is shapefile, which I believe can be opened with the QGIS mapping application. I’ll investigate and see if I can make it open or otherwise extract any data from it!

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/7ad35f44-89f0-443d-a040-eed72aac49d6n%40googlegroups.com.

[Caden Blythman]

So I just opened the data file in QGIS, and I was able to view a database of all the roads (I selected the Port Phillip / Western Port region). I’m new to this software so I wasn't sure how to properly filter the data—but I managed to sort by this “ROUTE_NO” field, so I could at least scroll through and see what was there.

In short there’s no new info, the database has a field for “ROUTE_NO” which is populated only for existing “active” alphas. For example, the lowest B route is B110 and the lowest A route is A420. Interestingly, the West Gate Tunnel shows up on the visualization of the data, but M4 is not in the database still. 

Also, no non-alphas are in there, except for NR ALT1 for some reason, labeled as “ALT1”. 

If anyone has anything specific I could look for, let me know and I’ll do a deep dive. This is just what I was able to find from a quick poke around!

[Sam L]

All the numbered urban arterials in Sydney and Adelaide are allocated as 'A' routes, it doesn't have anything to do with national significance. 

The only B routes in Adelaide are those that head up until the Adelaide Hills, similar to Sydney with B59, B69, B83 etc that leave the metropolitan area.

---

From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of z386x <zgcum...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2025 6:14 AM

To: Aussie Highways <aussie-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] New Melbourne Alphas 2

[z386x]

@Caden Really nice stuff! Thanks for having a look. Maybe they're still in the process of just getting the data all up to date from the old portal, maybe some more updates in the next few months (hopefully!)

@Sam I got the info from here, at least for Sydney. I guess the point of national significance or not is probably not what I was trying to get at, more just what is an 'A' route. And whatever it is, I just don't get how for whatever reason a road like Sneydes Rd (which is effectively a local traffic collector in Point Cook along with other roads in the area) gets 'A' whilst a road like Fitzsimons La (which is a major isolated arterial between the north and east over the Yarra) gets 'B'.

[Derek Wells]

@Peter Yes interesting, as per usual convention the M4 likely starts at the Footscray Rd intersection, and finishes between Williamstown Road and Millers Road (at both tunnel portals). Will be one of the shortest designated freeways in Melbourne (alongside the South-Gippsland Fwy), both in length and number of exits. 

Good note around the seemingly missing M4 Exit 2, more than likely reserved for ramps to a future EWL eastern tunnel or Citylink parallel elevated "port connection" (as proposed in 2014). Similarly on M2 Citylink, there is currently no Exit 5 between Racecourse Road (Exit 6) and Dynon Road (Exit 4), also likely reserved for ramps to a future EWL section between Citylink and the Eastern Freeway.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/4f938e5a-f151-40b8-9161-a0734257aa73n%40googlegroups.com.

[Aaron Polidano]

Speaking of the West Gate Tunnel. Does anyone know what the small blue signs are above the West Gate Freeway outbound? They look like toll signs but I don't believe outbound on the West Gate will be tolled right?

[Paul Rands]

Hi everyone,

Going by the posts there are lots of new alphas exposed in Melbourne, but what is the reality? Is it just a handful of signs here and there or is it large swathes of the network converted?

Paul R

li...@paulrands.com

http://www.expressway.net.au/

On 8 Jan 2025, at 16:41, z386x <zgcum...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Richo 84 that's a great find, and also absolutely bizarre! Be keen to see some pics if you did manage to grab any :)

A25 is indeed for Frankston-Dandenong Road (it was actually unveiled in a MRPV image but has been cover plated now), so I've got no idea why they would split up MR9 & 7 as they are quite straightforward routes.

A44 is also weird as well, at first I thought maybe for the proposed Northern Arterial but that makes more sense to just continue as A/B56 based on the Lilydale location signs at Foote St/Williamsons Rd. It seems way too short to list A44 for the reminder of northern MR7 (to MR9/Croydon Rd end), but at the same time I can't see how else it could be done? Maybe somehow A44 runs up Ringwood Bypass then duplexes Maroondah Hwy? I really have no idea. 

I've found some new-ish videos the last month or so of some drives which go through recently updates areas. This video shows B21 and Hall Rd and this one shows the full length of A404, both from the same uploader (thanks!). Another uploader here has some nice videos too such as this one which shows a lot of B21's as well as an exposed A14 at around the 8min mark. Also B422 is now fully signed on the M1 both ways and can confirm that Warragul bound Phillip Island is indeed on the gantries (I think someone mentioned here that it was odd the other way didn't). I don't know if it's been posted here either but I read on one of the Facebook groups that Mickleham Road has it's first A83 revealed as well. 

On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at 19:26:52 UTC+10 Richo 84 wrote:

In December in Croydon, A44 was revealed for Kent Ave along with B25 on Wicklow Ave / Croydon Road near the newly completed Croydon Station and intersection upgrade. This slices up the current MR7 route. 

Interestingly, the previous thread mentioned A25 has been seen along the Frankston-Dandenong Rd, the current MR9 route. This perhaps means A25 continues north to the end of Stud Road, then potentially east along Mountain Hwy and north again (as B25) on Bayswater Road. It’s anyone’s guess as to what the remaining parts of MR7 will become. Perhaps Bxxx? 

And where A44 ends up? Maybe through Warranwood or even along Jumping Creek Rd, Wonga Park? Either way,  nothing terribly ‘A’ about any of it!

There has also been a blank (potentially 3 digit alpha) cover plate on Hull Rd in Mooroolbark at the Five Ways roundabout for sometime. 

On Monday, December 30, 2024 at 3:47:15 AM UTC+11 Number wrote:

That's a new one, nice find! I remember guessing it would be B674 based on a tiny, blurry sign in a design image for the Western Port Hwy upgrade - so much for that :)

So the numbering is kind of interesting then - Hall Rd is parallel and nearby, and it's B664, then somehow we're jumping up to 676 for Ballarto Road. But, in between, 668 is on Greaves Rd & O'Shea Rd which are way northeast of both of these roads. I wonder where the other even numbers (672 and 674) go then (and do they skip 666 for religious reasons?). Consider me baffled.

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[Paul Rands]

If you need an AutoCAD viewer, download TrueView off their website.

Paul R

li...@paulrands.com

http://www.expressway.net.au/

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[Vaughan]

Depends on the route, and more likely to be roads that didn't have a route number beforehand e.g. A81 Leakes Rd. A lot of them are installer errors - typically missing overlays, but occasionally silly errors like the A44 debacle.

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[Number]

@Derek, funny thing regarding the exit numbers on CityLink: they've actually changed Dynon Rd to Exit 5 so that the West Gate Tunnel can be Exit 4. You can see it in this dashcam video at 13:34. About 30 seconds later you can sort of see a West Gate Tunnel sign with M4 and "Exit 4" on it.

@Aaron - I think it's some kind of "tolled for trucks" sign. They're going to make the West Gate Fwy tolled for trucks in both directions. https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/west-gate-tunnel-project/about/tolls

[z386x]

@Aaron Number is spot on, screenshots from the latest videos on WGT site show them as 'Heavy vehicle toll' signs, see attached.

[z386x]

Just noticed this attached pic for NE Link, not sure if others have seen, B633 for Thompsons Rd, and B56 will continue down Bulleen Rd/ Interesting also that B633 is printed on the road as well, not sure if that will actually happen! (Also hope the sign isn't actually like that in the future as its a mess...)

[Number]

Interesting, that explains the C633 shown for Templestowe in the Fitzsimons Lane Upgrade renders. So it might be signed B633 on Thompsons Rd and then unsigned C633 in the town centre of Templestowe (Union St, Parker St, etc). That sign is not going to be fun for drivers to figure out which lane they need to be in at a glance!


Unrelated - at the left turn from South Gippsland Hwy to Evans Rd, I saw this fallen left turn sign has gone back up (only took them a couple of years) but the coverplate is gone, revealing that the sign says "B675" on the top line and "Cranbourne West" underneath. Confirms that Evans Rd will also be B675 in the future (and e.g. not C675 speculated in the old thread). Signs on SG Hwy from the other direction are all still coverplated.