The mathematics relating to free energy/torque generation from the wheel of Bhaskaracharya

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 01:59:13 UTC+10, Volney wrote:
> On 9/19/2023 7:10 AM, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 19 September 2023 at 10:54:51 UTC+10, Volney wrote:
> >> On 9/18/2023 7:32 PM, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> >>
> >>> Now imagine a huge ferris wheel with large bottles, continuing rotating and driving a generator,
> >>> If lead balls are put there, a lot more torque would be got with a more powerful generator.
> >>> Wow, old Bhaskaracharya would solve the world's problems relating to energy generation very simply.
> >>> Mother Earth will provide all, with Her gravity.
> >>>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81skara%27s_wheel
> >>
> >> FAIL.
> >
> > Pathetic squeak from Moroney, quite a change from his usual D-K "delusional" dum-dum sniper bullets.
> So where are the scientific papers with the experimental evidence and
> scientific observations showing this, or any other perpetual motion*
> machine actually working and producing "free" energy?

Scientific papers by the modern physicists are all garbage. Physics has gone totally off the rails with nonsense like relativity and quantum.

Free energy is being produced before us, all over the universe, and in this apparatus from the great Bhaskaracharya said to be 1150 ad.

That free energy comes from the extra torque generated.

Scientific note follows:

The turning moment formula is m *g * L where L is the horizontal distance to the vertical through the axis of rotation.

Let m be the mass of each bottle. Let there be N bottles)
Then the formula for the net torque is:
T = m * g * N * sigma(i from 1 to N) [L(i)], note that half the L values will be negative.
where L is the distance of the centre of gravity for the i bottle from the axis, g is acceleration due to gravity.

Now observation shows that at the distances L are not uniform.
Those to the left are more than those to the right, that coming from the geometry of the water in the bottle.
Thus the above formula can be modified to, taking two bottles at the same height in opposite directions, and seeing the
length difference between them as d
T = m * g * N/2 * sigma(i from 1 to N/2) [ d(i) ]

And that is the positive quantity, and keeps the wheel rotating perpetually - in theory and as per maths - unless opposed by forces external causing counteracting torque.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81skara%27s_wheel
(In the video above, the scientist who made the equipment says that it has been going on for a month, and will stop only when he stops it.)

Scientific note ends:


I am not
> interested in your pathetic squeaks, show me the science!

If you understand basic school level mechanics, see above.



Certainly I
> would have heard of the authors of such papers booking their flights to
> Sweden by now.**

Nobels are by scoundrels for fools. It is one big racket to keep up eurocentric bigotries and western interests, by lies.
No decent human being should touch the Nobel Prize. It was initiated as a cover-up for profiteering from human deaths by explosions.

- rants from Moroney snipped -

Well, these videos supplement my new physics and engineering outcomes as will be found in:

Latest experiments (2022) showing my invention of a new kind of rail gun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYtyOMbgiZ0

Which is improved upon in, and its potential for ejecting matter into near space , and horizontal tunneling shown in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6pjy0Wvujs&t=19s

and the following shows how a new class of linear motor violating inertia can be developed by arresting the momentum of the armature and imparting that to the whole system, giving it an increased velocity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idsIuzEajTc&t=2s

Earlier experiments (2017)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqBfwAClVlg
IFE - 1 Ground Experiments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9eGq4Oiv9s
IFE - 2 Experimental setups

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3hC48BMrno
IFE - 3 Pendulum experiments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sSPxGsLkws
IFE - 4 Evolution of spaceship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJdM6UDPauU
IFE - 5 Hydrogen Transmission Network

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUAcx7rAplc
IFE - 6 Spaceship Design

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Zbpvc3fdA
IFE - 7 Anti-Gravity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA9LUwqMhxY
IFE - 8 New Physics

The way the universe operates:

The cause of gravity
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics/c/mmigkl3yZYc/m/8Rs16NCXAAAJ

Explaining the nova and supernova phenomena with new physics theories - 1
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics/c/6UIGDNHH7n0/m/U0t-kYqgAAAJ

Explaining the nova and supernova phenomena with new physics theories - 2
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics/c/CffbGTXV72c/m/5ONP6J6gAAAJ


Introduction to "A New Look Towards the Principles of Motion"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/1wmee5C8mFs/kJMPdnFkAwAJ

Section 1
Linear Motion, Momentum, Force, Energy, Internal Force Engines, and the design of Interstellar Spacecraft
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/GbpQC3a2d1Q/jSXQeb9kAwAJ

Section 1 (contd.)
Linear Motion, Momentum, Force, Energy, Internal Force Engines, and the design of Interstellar Spacecraft
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/P9ZiinIDhHU/ZtMQVyliBQAJ

Section 2
The Creation and Destruction of Energy
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/wY6_9V8ucSY/3nnJQk9iBQAJ

Section 3
The Structure of Heavenly Bodies
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/8jH-SQIFFDo/O1jn3HpiBQAJ

Section 4
The Nature of Explosion
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/7TkOVZigFHg/uv43_aZiBQAJ

Section 5
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/jhgcsTq-NrQ/ZBwG8S9jBQAJ


*****

More rail gun work coming along, to be published in a month or two!

Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee

[Thomas Joseph]

I don't understand it and won't try, not ever. But I know what you
are saying makes sense because you are a sensible guy. All the
techno explanations for this and that don't mean a thing to true
artistes such as myself. We groove on the sound of words - the
sounds of everything - and do not need official proclamations under
the guise of data and stats posing as fact, which cannot be fact if
it is eternally debated as is the case in this newsgroup and others.
I do not have to understand what you wrote above to know that it
makes sense. I don't have to know it anyway, all I have to do is feel
it.

Do ya feel me?

[Arindam Banerjee]

Now that's the real problem isn't it. You can't understand and those who can, won't as they care for their careers.
Sad.
Talking of word sounds, yes, I am always up against professors, physicists, politicians, pimps, presstitutes and prostitutes.
The "p" word relates to rudeness in Bengali - is that universal??
>
> Do ya feel me?

Oops I feel I made a mistake and gave the wrong videos! Sorry, sorry.

Please check out the videos below:


There is a net positive torque when the wheel is set into motion. This torque has to remain constant and creates energy for all time to come, so long as the bearings remain same, the mass does not change and no forces cause the wheel to stop.

Scientific explanation follows:

The turning moment formula is m *g * L where L is the horizontal distance to the vertical through the axis of rotation.

Let m be the mass of each bottle. Let there be N bottles)
Then the formula for the net torque is:
T = m * g * N * sigma(i from 1 to N) [L(i)], note that half the L values will be negative.
where L is the distance of the centre of gravity for the i bottle from the axis, g is acceleration due to gravity.

Now observation shows that at the distances L are not uniform.
Those to the left are more than those to the right, that coming from the geometry of the water in the bottle.
Thus the above formula can be modified to, taking two bottles at the same height in opposite directions, and seeing the
length difference between them as d
T = m * g * N/2 * sigma(i from 1 to N/2) [ d(i) ]

And that is the positive quantity, and keeps the wheel rotating perpetually - in theory and as per maths - unless opposed by forces external causing counteracting torque.

https://www.facebook.com/greatdiyidea/videos/603231088687771
shows energy generation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Aag0J0Qe4&t=312s

(In the video above, the scientist who made the equipment says that it has been going on for a month, and will stop only when he stops it.)

With bigger radii, greater mass, the torque will be more.

This will never be very powerful, nor mobile, so it will have limited uses.
People can make a number of these to power their homes, charge batteries, make hydrogen etc.
However when enlarged and kept in farms, it will give out 7*24 energy to supplement solar, wind, geo, tidal, etc.

Pakistanis using the Perendev simulation permanent magent free energy motors have found use in pumping out water.

Free energy motors of the above are sold every day in Alibaba. Theyh are expensive and not exacly DIY.

Now let us find the average power generated by the wheel in the youtube video.

(The below is a rough intial approach.)

Power = Torque * Angular Velocity
Let us put in values (roughly)
m=1.5Kg
N=10
g=9.8
As T = m * g * N/2 * sigma(i from 1 to N/2) [ d(i) ]
So far so good, but now the going gets difficult
The force of the water on the far side of the bottle effectively increases the turning length d(i)
It is directed outwards, unlike in the case when the bottle is ascending. There the force is on the cap from the water sploshing back on the cap, inwards thus.
Greater this force, with denser liquid, greater the torque.
This variation in the geometry due to the liquid state is what the invention is all about - the centre of gravity changes.
Assuming this last factor to be unity, we have
T = 1.5*9.8*5 or roughly 75 N-m
Power is Torque * Angular velocity in radians/sec
Seems to me from the video a full rotation is done in about 3 seconds, so w = 2pi/3 or say 2.
Then the power that is got from the device is T=75*2 = 150 watts.

Evidently that is enough to power a light bulb and a fan, as is shown in one of the videos.

With lead balls in the bottles, the sploshing will be even more powerful.

[Thomas Joseph]

I did not view the clip but did see you reference in an earlier post.
I get lost in the techno stuff, but I can feel my way around it. Sounds
like a Jules Verne type gizmo, only perhaps more useful? Whatever
it is, I don't doubt that something can be made of it.

Also, your comment: "Those who don't know can't do anything
and those who do know don't want to do anything" - or however
you phrased it, it is correct. Except for one thing. I do understand
it but don't care because I am just as positive about the future as
you. So much so in fact that I don't care what happens because I
believe that in the end, no matter what it is, it's all going to be for
the better. I have no religion, but I do have faith. A lot of faith.

I don't care what happens and that includes the environment.
People debate, "Is there global warming or not?" Me, I don't
care. If there is global warming I have enough faith to believe
that it's happening for a good reason. I believe that any change,
no matter how severe it may seem - if it happens slowly enough
life will adapt to it. Life will adapt to anything. Can a living creature
as we know them today live in 200 degrees fahrenheit? No, not
now. But if the steering temperatures go up gradually enough
we will adapt to it for sure. Same the other way. Life cannot die.
It could be a blessing, it could be a curse. Who knows? So for
now all I can say is, "I'm a nice guy and I care about a lot of things,
but in general not enough to go to war over them."

Let it go, man, let it go!

[Thomas Joseph]

I will check out your link from my government issued smartphone
as this big desktop for some reason won't always take me where
the link says to go. I get a message saying, "Site is not secure. Do
you want to proceed anyway?" When I hit 'yes', it does nothing. No
big deal, I'll check out your link later on the smartphone. I have no
doubts that many things invented or thought of in the past are superior
to most crap coming out today. But I don't fight it. I gripe. But I adapt.

They call me "Mr. Adaptability."

[Hibou]

Le 20/09/2023 à 04:58, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
>
> And that is the positive quantity, and keeps the wheel rotating perpetually - in theory and as per maths - unless opposed by forces external causing counteracting torque.
> https://www.facebook.com/greatdiyidea/videos/603231088687771
> shows energy generation.

Ha ha ha ha!

Sanity check.

The radius at the water is, say, ~0.5 m. If they're two-litre bottles,
eight of them, and they're half full, then the total volume of water is
~8 L, weighing 80 N. The wheel is rotating roughly once every two
seconds, and the water rises and falls 1 m. Power from gravity could
come only from the falling half, so could not exceed 80 N / 2 x 1 m = 40
J / 2 = 20 W. Roughly speaking, at any time half of the water is at the
top or bottom and not contributing, and the torque from the descending
water is partially balanced by torque from the rising water on the other
side. There are also frictional losses. Cutting the 20 W by an order of
magnitude is being generous. 2 W maybe.

This is not nearly enough to run a fan like that (a smaller fan here
takes 30 W), and even if the light bulb is LED (I can't see it clearly),
it's too much (if it's incandescent, it's worse).

FAKE!

As if we didn't know already that such perpetual-motion machines don't work.

My guess is there are batteries concealed in the over-elaborate and
oversized welded frame, with wires running underneath to the motor we
can see.

[occam]

On 19/09/2023 23:51, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> Free energy is being produced before us, all over the universe, and in
> this apparatus from the great Bhaskaracharya said to be 1150 ad.

What is it about Indian people who *want* to believe in
something-for-nothing when it comes to energy? Cultural, I'm guessing.

[Peter Moylan]

That's unfair stereotyping. One of my most talented PhD students was
Indian. I've collaborated with another Indian whose credentials in
systems theory are impeccable. India has produced many highly talented
people. The inventor of zero was an Indian, and that advance was crucial
for the development of modern mathematics.

If you're referring to Bhāskara's wheel: yes, we now know that the
reasoning behind it is faulty, but that was nearly a thousand years ago.
In 1150 the physics of *every* country was shaky by today's standards.

If you're referring to Arindam, he is just one example among many of the
cranks you can find haunting the Internet.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 13:43:31 UTC+10, Thomas Joseph wrote:

Thanks! And you are so different from the surly creatures here. It is so easy to lose one's faith in human nature, among these types.
Why these creatures are so, is the puzzling point.
A reveal is there, from the link
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics/c/hEVPTyS8SQA/m/gPySrybeAAAJ
where there is a video of a mother beating the hell out of her kid, mercilessly.
Some illumination!

All the
> techno explanations for this and that don't mean a thing to true
> artistes such as myself. We groove on the sound of words - the
> sounds of everything - and do not need official proclamations under
> the guise of data and stats posing as fact, which cannot be fact if
> it is eternally debated as is the case in this newsgroup and others.
> I do not have to understand what you wrote above to know that it
> makes sense. I don't have to know it anyway, all I have to do is feel
> it.

Only question is, do you have an open mind, or are blinded by dogma, or career considerations?
>
> Do ya feel me?

I think so. Point is, is there still a can-do spirit left in the US?

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Yes. All that is a fair assessment of the reality.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 20/09/23 16:43, occam wrote:
> > On 19/09/2023 23:51, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>
> >> Free energy is being produced before us, all over the universe, and
> >> in this apparatus from the great Bhaskaracharya said to be 1150
> >> ad.
> >
> > What is it about Indian people who *want* to believe in
> > something-for-nothing when it comes to energy? Cultural, I'm
> > guessing.
>
> That's unfair stereotyping. One of my most talented PhD students was
> Indian. I've collaborated with another Indian whose credentials in
> systems theory are impeccable. India has produced many highly talented
> people. The inventor of zero was an Indian, and that advance was crucial
> for the development of modern mathematics.
>

> If you're referring to Bh?skara's wheel: yes, we now know that the

> reasoning behind it is faulty, but that was nearly a thousand years ago.
> In 1150 the physics of *every* country was shaky by today's standards.

Gerolamo Cardano (1501-1576) was famous in his time
as a physicist and mathematician.
(his name lives on in the 'cardan' in our car)

He was known in his time for debunking the perpetuum mobile,
(such as Bhaskara's wheel)
and the denying the possibility of it in general.

Poor performance for Western science: a mere 500 years ago,
no match for 1000 year old Indian wisdom,

Jan

[Arindam Banerjee]

When I go to India this winter (there) I will try to get that done. No point doing it here in Australia.
Idea will be to put ten or more bicycle wheels on a shaft, and try to see what happens after that.

> Also, your comment: "Those who don't know can't do anything
> and those who do know don't want to do anything" - or however
> you phrased it, it is correct.

Thanks.

Except for one thing. I do understand
> it but don't care because I am just as positive about the future as
> you. So much so in fact that I don't care what happens because I
> believe that in the end, no matter what it is, it's all going to be for
> the better. I have no religion, but I do have faith. A lot of faith.

How wonderful. Without faith man is a robot. Religion unfortunately creates robots, under bad theologies and unscrupulous elites.
The Vedic religion I follow relates to pure magic (that is, what causes wonder leading to change on a momentous basis)
and is the source of all that is good and wonderful.
I explain that in the Chandi-paath, pure magic that is. In Sanskrit. Happens once a year, to the public.

> I don't care what happens and that includes the environment.
> People debate, "Is there global warming or not?" Me, I don't
> care. If there is global warming I have enough faith to believe
> that it's happening for a good reason. I believe that any change,
> no matter how severe it may seem - if it happens slowly enough
> life will adapt to it. Life will adapt to anything. Can a living creature
> as we know them today live in 200 degrees fahrenheit? No, not
> now. But if the steering temperatures go up gradually enough
> we will adapt to it for sure. Same the other way. Life cannot die.
> It could be a blessing, it could be a curse. Who knows? So for
> now all I can say is, "I'm a nice guy and I care about a lot of things,
> but in general not enough to go to war over them."

Personally I go into the deepest aspects of things, with guidance from the kindly spiritual beings.
Being a researcher, works like that. Faith, yes, faith is the key word.
For example I point out that global warming is caused by the greenhouse effect.
The greenhouse effect is caused by greenhouse gases, mainly carbon dioxide.
Thousands of jet engines belch out many tons of CO2 in the upper atmosphere, where they remain.
Causing the global warming.
The professors don't like that thought. Along with the physicists, politicians, pimps, presstitues and prostitutes.
Anything to show that CO2 produced near the ground is a GOOD gas.
It being heavy falls to the ground, and in due course becomes limestone, marble, etc.
Now that is the last thing they want the world to know.
They scare people for the funding, from nukes to global warming.

> Let it go, man, let it go!

Yes, let all fling rotten tomatoes at the e=mcc=hv blathering professors!
Up Newton, Down Einstein!

[Arindam Banerjee]

Well, he was wrong, like da Vinci.
The whole universe is perpetuum mobile.
But in those days they burnt to death all those who thought it was infinite, like Bruno.
Who could have been more wrong than those professors who thought that stars were openings to Heaven, and they moved in crystal spheres around the Earth?

> Poor performance for Western science: a mere 500 years ago,
> no match for 1000 year old Indian wisdom,

Exactly. Actually, 7000 years at least, going by Ravana's viman.

> Jan

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 16:00:47 UTC+10, Hibou wrote:
> Le 20/09/2023 à 04:58, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
> >
> > And that is the positive quantity, and keeps the wheel rotating perpetually - in theory and as per maths - unless opposed by forces external causing counteracting torque.
> > https://www.facebook.com/greatdiyidea/videos/603231088687771
> > shows energy generation.
> Ha ha ha ha!
>
> Sanity check.
>
> The radius at the water is, say, ~0.5 m. If they're two-litre bottles,
> eight of them, and they're half full, then the total volume of water is
> ~8 L, weighing 80 N.

There are ten of them in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Aag0J0Qe4&t=76s
and with increased salt content should weigh 1.5 Kg
It is not just their mass, but the action/reaction force from the splosh on the left side hitting the far end.
On the right side they hit the inner end at the cap. That force is inward and does not create as much torque as on the other side.
This is what makes the extra torque.
The torque is force * distance.
Now the distance is the key issue.
The sploshing creates an effective extra distance on the left side, caused by the reaction on the far side of the bottle.
That extra distances for each opposing pair causing the rotation is difficult to gauge, but can be found out by the net power generated.
Let us say it sums up to 1, for this design.
So torque is 1.5*10/2*9.8*1 = 75N-m.
Angular velocity from the link comes to one rotation or 2pi in 2 seconds, so let us say it is 3 radians per second

Then the power is torque*angular velocity = 75*3 = 225 watts.

The wheel is rotating roughly once every two
> seconds, and the water rises and falls 1 m. Power from gravity could
> come only from the falling half, so could not exceed 80 N / 2 x 1 m = 40
> J / 2 = 20 W. Roughly speaking, at any time half of the water is at the
> top or bottom and not contributing, and the torque from the descending
> water is partially balanced by torque from the rising water on the other
> side. There are also frictional losses. Cutting the 20 W by an order of
> magnitude is being generous. 2 W maybe.

The video below shows a light bulb and a fan, overall some 50 watts say.

https://www.facebook.com/greatdiyidea/videos/603231088687771

Basically you are saying that as the law of conservation of energy has to be true, this experiment showing off free energy must be fake.
Well, to me it is clear that this lad in the video is simply massacring all the phoneys from the West in this very important field.

Generally speaking
I am talking of forces, not energies.
When the law of conservation of energy is suspect, then it cannot be used by itself for justification.

> This is not nearly enough to run a fan like that (a smaller fan here
> takes 30 W), and even if the light bulb is LED (I can't see it clearly),
> it's too much (if it's incandescent, it's worse).

So the question is do you believe your eyes or not, in the video
https://www.facebook.com/greatdiyidea/videos/603231088687771

> FAKE!

I don't think so.
These people have much to gain from these simple tricks giving them much needed power.

> As if we didn't know already that such perpetual-motion machines don't work.

Do you know that stars go around the Earth in crystal spheres?
You see that happening every night!
:-)

>
> My guess is there are batteries concealed in the over-elaborate and
> oversized welded frame, with wires running underneath to the motor we
> can see.

The welded frame has to be heavy in order to keep it all steady. There is torque imbalance which has to be countered by the earthing, and for that a heavy frame is required.

Know what, after seeing the following video
https://www.facebook.com/arindam.banerjee.31149359/videos/1028532314980688
the great physicists in sci.physics said
- the table was so inclined that the armature rolled down by gravity

Link at

https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics/c/rsq7DhuAaKc/m/Dyq_TlqVAgAJ

Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee

btw I will give this wheel a try when I get to India at the end of this year.
Get some 10-20 bicycle wheels on a shaft, and try it out with lead balls and oil in the bottles.
Should get at least 1 kilowatt.

[Arindam Banerjee]

They get free energy from the sun for their crops, and thank Surya for that.
Not all are mean capitalists see, who want to grab all and sell for profit.

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 17:44:27 UTC+10, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 20/09/23 16:43, occam wrote:
> > On 19/09/2023 23:51, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>
> >> Free energy is being produced before us, all over the universe, and
> >> in this apparatus from the great Bhaskaracharya said to be 1150
> >> ad.
> >
> > What is it about Indian people who *want* to believe in
> > something-for-nothing when it comes to energy? Cultural, I'm
> > guessing.
> That's unfair stereotyping. One of my most talented PhD students was
> Indian. I've collaborated with another Indian whose credentials in
> systems theory are impeccable. India has produced many highly talented
> people. The inventor of zero was an Indian, and that advance was crucial
> for the development of modern mathematics.
>
> If you're referring to Bhāskara's wheel: yes, we now know that the
> reasoning behind it is faulty, but that was nearly a thousand years ago.
> In 1150 the physics of *every* country was shaky by today's standards.

No it is perfectly correct, but it does not suit those who spread the canard about the law of conservation of energy.

> If you're referring to Arindam, he is just one example among many of the
> cranks you can find haunting the Internet.
>
> --
> Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

The first thing I learnt about Australian academics, when I emigrated in 1989, is that they are wankers.
Unfortunately that has been only too true, from my personal experience.
Not just in Australia, though.

> Newcastle, NSW

[Arindam Banerjee]

It is an unfair and wrong assessment, but from asses nothing better can be expected.

[occam]

On 20/09/2023 09:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 20/09/23 16:43, occam wrote:
>> On 19/09/2023 23:51, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>
>>> Free energy is being produced before us, all over the universe, and
>>> in this apparatus from the great Bhaskaracharya said to be 1150
>>> ad.
>>
>> What is it about Indian people who *want* to believe in
>> something-for-nothing when it comes to energy? Cultural, I'm
>> guessing.
>
> That's unfair stereotyping.

I agree that, as stated, it is unfair.

However, if you look at recent (last 100 years) 'perpetual machine'
examples knocking about today, there is a preponderance of demos from
the Indian sub-continent.

I would include in this category those who claim to have invented water-
powered 'combustion' engines. Look up Thushara Priyamal Edirisinghe (Sri
Lankan), Daniel Dingel (Filippino), Ghulam Sarwar, Agha Waqar Ahmad
(Pakistani) and others.

One of my most talented PhD students was
> Indian. I've collaborated with another Indian whose credentials in
> systems theory are impeccable. India has produced many highly talented
> people. The inventor of zero was an Indian, and that advance was crucial
> for the development of modern mathematics.

Absolutely no doubt. Great tradition of mathematicians and physicists.

>
> If you're referring to Bhāskara's wheel: yes, we now know that the
> reasoning behind it is faulty, but that was nearly a thousand years ago.
> In 1150 the physics of *every* country was shaky by today's standards.

No, too old a reference. Although some of the perpetual machine examples
may be claimed to be based on Bhaskara's original concept.

>
> If you're referring to Arindam, he is just one example among many of the
> cranks you can find haunting the Internet.
>

He is a special case in that he believes total energy in the universe is
not constant AND we can tap into the 'new' energy at will.

Perhaps with one of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsxroTt9IhY

[Arindam Banerjee]

His concept works on gravity and geometry, the push of fluid effectively creating extra torque on the axis.
This torque of course converts to power with a generator.

> >
> > If you're referring to Arindam, he is just one example among many of the
> > cranks you can find haunting the Internet.
> >
> He is a special case in that he believes total energy in the universe is
> not constant AND we can tap into the 'new' energy at will.

Energy/work is simply force*distance.
Energy is created and lost in our infinite universe.
Force is always there, from charge which never dies.
Using force, we get energy and work.
Energy is for bunnyahs (moneymen).
Force is for the scientists and engineers.

[Hibou]

It's a long time since I've read such a screed of complete rubbish.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2023-09-20 13:32:16 +0000, Hibou said:

> Le 20/09/2023 à 10:48, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
>>

>> [ … ]

>>
>> btw I will give this wheel a try when I get to India at the end of this year.
>> Get some 10-20 bicycle wheels on a shaft, and try it out with lead
>> balls and oil in the bottles.

Are bicycle wheels, lead balls and oil not available in Australia?

>> Should get at least 1 kilowatt.
>
> It's a long time since I've read such a screed of complete rubbish.

Maybe you haven't read Arindam's previous posts?

[Lionel Edwards]

A funny joke in aue about whether cardan should be capitalised,
went like this:..

<quote>

>Let me ask a related question: when is it considered correct to use
>personal names as adjectives? For example, _Smith predictor_ is a
>common term in control theory.

Any time: Cardan shaft, Scharz-Metterklume method, Corliss valve gear,
Alexander Graham bell ...,

[Hibou]

Le 20/09/2023 à 14:54, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
> On 2023-09-20 13:32:16 +0000, Hibou said:
>> Le 20/09/2023 à 10:48, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
>>>
>>> [ … ]
>>>
>>> btw I will give this wheel a try when I get to India at the end of
>>> this year.
>>> Get some 10-20 bicycle wheels on a shaft, and try it out with lead
>>> balls and oil in the bottles.
>
> Are bicycle wheels, lead balls and oil not available in Australia?

It's the essential magic that doesn't travel.

>>> Should get at least 1 kilowatt.
>>
>> It's a long time since I've read such a screed of complete rubbish.
>
> Maybe you haven't read Arindam's previous posts?

I don't generally read them, no.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 20/09/2023 10:55, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 17:44:27 UTC+10, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> On 20/09/23 16:43, occam wrote:
>>> On 19/09/2023 23:51, Arindam Banerjee wrote:

>> If you're referring to Bhāskara's wheel: yes, we now know that the
>> reasoning behind it is faulty, but that was nearly a thousand years ago.
>> In 1150 the physics of *every* country was shaky by today's standards.
>
> No it is perfectly correct, but it does not suit those who spread the canard about the law of conservation of energy.

"spread the canard"

Aha! An unmistakable reference to duck pâté.

Food is always on topic.

[Snidely]

Wednesday, Athel Cornish-Bowden quipped:

There's an Italian one getting ready to fly to the moon.

/dps

--
Let's celebrate Macaronesia

[lar3ryca]

I canardly wait for the duck patties.

--
If people were birds, very few of us would be as smart as crows.
~ Uncle Charlie

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 23:54:55 UTC+10, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2023-09-20 13:32:16 +0000, Hibou said:
>
> > Le 20/09/2023 à 10:48, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
> >>
> >> [ … ]
> >>
> >> btw I will give this wheel a try when I get to India at the end of this year.
> >> Get some 10-20 bicycle wheels on a shaft, and try it out with lead
> >> balls and oil in the bottles.
> Are bicycle wheels, lead balls and oil not available in Australia?

Yes, but cheap labour is not. Besides, there would be no one to show here.
To repeat, the chaps in charge - professors, politicians, physicists, pimps, presstitutes, prostitutes - all unite in
running away from anywhere near me with speeds Mr Usain Bolt would envy.
In India things may be a bit different.

> >> Should get at least 1 kilowatt.
> >
> > It's a long time since I've read such a screed of complete rubbish.
> Maybe you haven't read Arindam's previous posts?

A bad review from the stupid and the biased, in the lands of the abovmentioned p6, has to be the best encouragement for me.

> --
> Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
> in England until 1987.

The bow-wow chappie, still around.

[Arindam Banerjee]

No.

>
> Food is always on topic.

French is perilous. There is an English meaning for that word.

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Thursday, 21 September 2023 at 07:30:52 UTC+10, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 23:54:55 UTC+10, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2023-09-20 13:32:16 +0000, Hibou said:
> >
> > > Le 20/09/2023 à 10:48, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
> > >>
> > >> [ … ]
> > >>
> > >> btw I will give this wheel a try when I get to India at the end of this year.
> > >> Get some 10-20 bicycle wheels on a shaft, and try it out with lead
> > >> balls and oil in the bottles.
> > Are bicycle wheels, lead balls and oil not available in Australia?
> Yes, but cheap labour is not. Besides, there would be no one to show here.
> To repeat, the chaps in charge - professors, politicians, physicists, pimps, presstitutes, prostitutes - all unite in
> running away from anywhere near me with speeds Mr Usain Bolt would envy.
> In India things may be a bit different.
> > >> Should get at least 1 kilowatt.

A feedback motor, powered by the above to keep the angular speed going, is necessary to compensate for the drag caused by air resistance.
Now the question is whether that would cause no extra energy given out.
I doubt that, going by the formula for extra torque.
But it all depends upon the engineering.
The mass in the bottle, the numbers, the length of the bottle, the quality of the bearings, the sheltered place (away from winds) etc.
Nothing beats experiments and the experiences wherefrom, when one is scientific.
Well, one has to find the moment of inertia of the system, including that of the armature of the rotor of the machine generating power.
Multiply that with the angular velocity, to get the opposing torque, and compare with the theoretical torque from the wheel.
Put in extra torque for air resistance, bearings etc.

[Peter Moylan]

On 21/09/23 00:02, Lionel Edwards wrote:

> A funny joke in aue about whether cardan should be capitalised, went
> like this:..
>
> <quote>
>
>> Let me ask a related question: when is it considered correct to
>> use personal names as adjectives? For example, _Smith predictor_ is
>> a common term in control theory.
>
> Any time: Cardan shaft, Scharz-Metterklume method, Corliss valve
> gear, Alexander Graham bell ...,

Since control theory is my area, I had better explain that the Smith
predictor was used to predict the consequences of a declining use of
horses for transport.

[Peter Moylan]

On 21/09/23 06:31, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2023-09-20 12:47, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 20/09/2023 10:55, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 17:44:27 UTC+10, Peter Moylan
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 20/09/23 16:43, occam wrote:
>>>>> On 19/09/2023 23:51, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
>>
>>>> If you're referring to Bhāskara's wheel: yes, we now know that
>>>> the reasoning behind it is faulty, but that was nearly a
>>>> thousand years ago. In 1150 the physics of *every* country was
>>>> shaky by today's standards.
>>>
>>> No it is perfectly correct, but it does not suit those who spread
>>> the canard about the law of conservation of energy.
>>
>> "spread the canard"
>>
>> Aha! An unmistakable reference to duck pâté.
>>
>> Food is always on topic.
>
> I canardly wait for the duck patties.

When you see a duck sitting on eggs, you will soon hear the patty of
little feet.

Many years ago I was a part-owner of a car we called the Rolls-Canardly.
It rolls down the hill ...

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

Newcastle, NSW

[TonyCooper]

In the US, we have the Smith & Wesson predictor. He who has one, when
the other has only a knife, wins.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando,Florida

[Hibou]

Le 20/09/2023 à 22:30, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
>
> Yes, but cheap labour is not. Besides, there would be no one to show here.
> To repeat, the chaps in charge - professors, politicians, physicists, pimps, presstitutes, prostitutes - all unite in

> running away from anywhere near me with speeds Mr Usain Bolt would envy. [...]
>
> A bad review from the stupid and the biased, in the lands of the abovmentioned p6, has to be the best encouragement for me. [...]

Curious point of view. "If everyone thinks I'm wrong, I must be right."

That's not my view of science. Because it's based on evidence, science
tends to be convergent. This is in contrast to, for example, religion,
which is visibly divergent (all those gods and sects).

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Thursday, 21 September 2023 at 14:57:45 UTC+10, Hibou wrote:
> Le 20/09/2023 à 22:30, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
> >
> > Yes, but cheap labour is not. Besides, there would be no one to show here.
> > To repeat, the chaps in charge - professors, politicians, physicists, pimps, presstitutes, prostitutes - all unite in
> > running away from anywhere near me with speeds Mr Usain Bolt would envy. [...]
> >
> > A bad review from the stupid and the biased, in the lands of the abovmentioned p6, has to be the best encouragement for me. [...]
>
> Curious point of view. "If everyone thinks I'm wrong, I must be right."

That is not what I wrote.
I am saying that people who make silly unscientific comments reflecting their prejudices, their ignorance and incompetence, are stupid and biased.
(Deplorable, but well, what can be done, there are so many of them.)
So when stupid and biased people make negative comments, that is encouraging.
It does not mean that I must be right, but I could be on the right track.

But then, proper comprehension cannot be expected from the stupid and the biased.

As a matter of fact, in research matters I am wrong or partly correct practically all the time, till I get there at some stage.
In this case, it has taken me some time (2023-1998=25 years) now, and will take the rest of my life.
I knew that i was on the right track when a very senior scientist, back in 2003, told me to stop my work as that was making many people unhappy.
Hmm, that was telling me, you'll get nothing but persecution from us.
Still, with divine help, I have managed so far and not just in fundamental physics, one of my hobbies.

"Raakhay hori, maaray kay!"

Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee

[Hibou]

Le 21/09/2023 à 08:39, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
> On Thursday, 21 September 2023 at 14:57:45 UTC+10, Hibou wrote:
>>
>> Curious point of view. "If everyone thinks I'm wrong, I must be right."
>
> That is not what I wrote.
> I am saying that people who make silly unscientific comments reflecting their prejudices, their ignorance and incompetence, are stupid and biased.
> (Deplorable, but well, what can be done, there are so many of them.)
> So when stupid and biased people make negative comments, that is encouraging.
> It does not mean that I must be right, but I could be on the right track.

That is the most peculiar method for finding one's way.

> But then, proper comprehension cannot be expected from the stupid and the biased.
>
> As a matter of fact, in research matters I am wrong or partly correct practically all the time, till I get there at some stage.
> In this case, it has taken me some time (2023-1998=25 years) now, and will take the rest of my life.
> I knew that i was on the right track when a very senior scientist, back in 2003, told me to stop my work as that was making many people unhappy.
> Hmm, that was telling me, you'll get nothing but persecution from us.
> Still, with divine help, I have managed so far and not just in fundamental physics, one of my hobbies.

Divine help, eh? That's always useful.

I never receive any myself, but then I don't think God believes in me.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 08:58:36 +0100
Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> Le 21/09/2023 à 08:39, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :

[].

> > Still, with divine help, I have managed so far and not just in fundamental physics, one of my hobbies.
>
> Divine help, eh? That's always useful.
>
> I never receive any myself, but then I don't think God believes in me.
>

Then it's time you created a new one.

Self-help, that's what I preach.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, you have Al Capone science, and the Great equaliser,

Jan

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Thursday, 21 September 2023 at 17:58:41 UTC+10, Hibou wrote:
> Le 21/09/2023 à 08:39, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
> > On Thursday, 21 September 2023 at 14:57:45 UTC+10, Hibou wrote:
> >>
> >> Curious point of view. "If everyone thinks I'm wrong, I must be right."
> >
> > That is not what I wrote.
> > I am saying that people who make silly unscientific comments reflecting their prejudices, their ignorance and incompetence, are stupid and biased.
> > (Deplorable, but well, what can be done, there are so many of them.)
> > So when stupid and biased people make negative comments, that is encouraging.
> > It does not mean that I must be right, but I could be on the right track.
> That is the most peculiar method for finding one's way.

In a world of lies, run by liars preying on fools, that is effective when they open up as at times they do.
Fortunately on unimportant matters there is no problem, eg.
just because wiki is right 99% of the time, it cannot be trusted 100%
In science there is always scepticism on one hand, and prima facie provisional acceptance on the other. Based on mutual trust, the latter.

> > But then, proper comprehension cannot be expected from the stupid and the biased.
> >
> > As a matter of fact, in research matters I am wrong or partly correct practically all the time, till I get there at some stage.
> > In this case, it has taken me some time (2023-1998=25 years) now, and will take the rest of my life.
> > I knew that i was on the right track when a very senior scientist, back in 2003, told me to stop my work as that was making many people unhappy.
> > Hmm, that was telling me, you'll get nothing but persecution from us.
> > Still, with divine help, I have managed so far and not just in fundamental physics, one of my hobbies.
> Divine help, eh? That's always useful.

Indeed.
AMDG as my Jesuit teachers taught.

[Hibou]

Le 21/09/2023 à 10:12, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
>
> AMDG as my Jesuit teachers taught.

Ah yes, ad maiorem Dei gloriam - giving greater glory to a God who is
already infinite.

Puzzling - but then, Christianity delights in such puzzles. It's a 2 + 2
= 3 kind of religion.

[Arindam Banerjee]

On Thursday, 21 September 2023 at 20:46:24 UTC+10, Hibou wrote:
> Le 21/09/2023 à 10:12, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
> >
> > AMDG as my Jesuit teachers taught.
> Ah yes, ad maiorem Dei gloriam - giving greater glory to a God who is
> already infinite.

AMDG or All My Deeds to God aka AlooMataDalGobhi as we paganstudents put it, is about getting glory FROM the Gods and Goddesses. In return.

>
> Puzzling - but then, Christianity delights in such puzzles. It's a 2 + 2
> = 3 kind of religion.

As someone put it, it is a strange religion which provides excellent education.

[Sam Plusnet]

They became part of the leisure industry, and thus a transport of delight.

[Thomas Joseph]

On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 5:02:37 AM UTC-4, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 14:49:22 UTC+10, Thomas Joseph wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 11:58:46 PM UTC-4, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 13:43:31 UTC+10, Thomas Joseph wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 5:51:28 PM UTC-4, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 01:59:13 UTC+10, Volney wrote:
> > > > > > On 9/19/2023 7:10 AM, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, 19 September 2023 at 10:54:51 UTC+10, Volney wrote:
> > > > > > >> On 9/18/2023 7:32 PM, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>> Now imagine a huge ferris wheel with large bottles, continuing rotating and driving a generator,
> > > > > > >>> If lead balls are put there, a lot more torque would be got with a more powerful generator.
> > > > > > >>> Wow, old Bhaskaracharya would solve the world's problems relating to energy generation very simply.
> > > > > > >>> Mother Earth will provide all, with Her gravity.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81skara%27s_wheel
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> FAIL.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pathetic squeak from Moroney, quite a change from his usual D-K "delusional" dum-dum sniper bullets.
> > > > > > So where are the scientific papers with the experimental evidence and
> > > > > > scientific observations showing this, or any other perpetual motion*
> > > > > > machine actually working and producing "free" energy?
> > > > >
> > > > > Scientific papers by the modern physicists are all garbage. Physics has gone totally off the rails with nonsense like relativity and quantum.

> > > > >
> > > > > Free energy is being produced before us, all over the universe, and in this apparatus from the great Bhaskaracharya said to be 1150 ad.
> > > > >

> > > > > That free energy comes from the extra torque generated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Scientific note follows:
> > > > >
> > > > > The turning moment formula is m *g * L where L is the horizontal distance to the vertical through the axis of rotation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let m be the mass of each bottle. Let there be N bottles)
> > > > > Then the formula for the net torque is:
> > > > > T = m * g * N * sigma(i from 1 to N) [L(i)], note that half the L values will be negative.
> > > > > where L is the distance of the centre of gravity for the i bottle from the axis, g is acceleration due to gravity.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now observation shows that at the distances L are not uniform.
> > > > > Those to the left are more than those to the right, that coming from the geometry of the water in the bottle.
> > > > > Thus the above formula can be modified to, taking two bottles at the same height in opposite directions, and seeing the
> > > > > length difference between them as d
> > > > > T = m * g * N/2 * sigma(i from 1 to N/2) [ d(i) ]

> > > > >
> > > > > And that is the positive quantity, and keeps the wheel rotating perpetually - in theory and as per maths - unless opposed by forces external causing counteracting torque.

> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C4%81skara%27s_wheel
> > > > > (In the video above, the scientist who made the equipment says that it has been going on for a month, and will stop only when he stops it.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Scientific note ends:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not
> > > > > > interested in your pathetic squeaks, show me the science!
> > > > >
> > > > > If you understand basic school level mechanics, see above.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Certainly I
> > > > > > would have heard of the authors of such papers booking their flights to
> > > > > > Sweden by now.**
> > > > >
> > > > > Nobels are by scoundrels for fools. It is one big racket to keep up eurocentric bigotries and western interests, by lies.
> > > > > No decent human being should touch the Nobel Prize. It was initiated as a cover-up for profiteering from human deaths by explosions.
> > > > >
> > > > > - rants from Moroney snipped -
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, these videos supplement my new physics and engineering outcomes as will be found in:
> > > > >
> > > > > Latest experiments (2022) showing my invention of a new kind of rail gun
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYtyOMbgiZ0
> > > > >
> > > > > Which is improved upon in, and its potential for ejecting matter into near space , and horizontal tunneling shown in
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6pjy0Wvujs&t=19s
> > > > >
> > > > > and the following shows how a new class of linear motor violating inertia can be developed by arresting the momentum of the armature and imparting that to the whole system, giving it an increased velocity
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idsIuzEajTc&t=2s
> > > > >
> > > > > Earlier experiments (2017)
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqBfwAClVlg
> > > > > IFE - 1 Ground Experiments
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9eGq4Oiv9s
> > > > > IFE - 2 Experimental setups
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3hC48BMrno
> > > > > IFE - 3 Pendulum experiments
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sSPxGsLkws
> > > > > IFE - 4 Evolution of spaceship
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJdM6UDPauU
> > > > > IFE - 5 Hydrogen Transmission Network
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUAcx7rAplc
> > > > > IFE - 6 Spaceship Design
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Zbpvc3fdA
> > > > > IFE - 7 Anti-Gravity
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA9LUwqMhxY
> > > > > IFE - 8 New Physics
> > > > >
> > > > > The way the universe operates:
> > > > >
> > > > > The cause of gravity
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics/c/mmigkl3yZYc/m/8Rs16NCXAAAJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Explaining the nova and supernova phenomena with new physics theories - 1
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics/c/6UIGDNHH7n0/m/U0t-kYqgAAAJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Explaining the nova and supernova phenomena with new physics theories - 2
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics/c/CffbGTXV72c/m/5ONP6J6gAAAJ
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Introduction to "A New Look Towards the Principles of Motion"
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/1wmee5C8mFs/kJMPdnFkAwAJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Section 1
> > > > > Linear Motion, Momentum, Force, Energy, Internal Force Engines, and the design of Interstellar Spacecraft
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/GbpQC3a2d1Q/jSXQeb9kAwAJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Section 1 (contd.)
> > > > > Linear Motion, Momentum, Force, Energy, Internal Force Engines, and the design of Interstellar Spacecraft
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/P9ZiinIDhHU/ZtMQVyliBQAJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Section 2
> > > > > The Creation and Destruction of Energy
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/wY6_9V8ucSY/3nnJQk9iBQAJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Section 3
> > > > > The Structure of Heavenly Bodies
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/8jH-SQIFFDo/O1jn3HpiBQAJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Section 4
> > > > > The Nature of Explosion
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/7TkOVZigFHg/uv43_aZiBQAJ
> > > > >
> > > > > Section 5
> > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.physics/jhgcsTq-NrQ/ZBwG8S9jBQAJ
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *****
> > > > >
> > > > > More rail gun work coming along, to be published in a month or two!
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Arindam Banerjee
> > > > I don't understand it and won't try, not ever. But I know what you
> > > > are saying makes sense because you are a sensible guy. All the
> > > > techno explanations for this and that don't mean a thing to true
> > > > artistes such as myself. We groove on the sound of words - the
> > > > sounds of everything - and do not need official proclamations under
> > > > the guise of data and stats posing as fact, which cannot be fact if
> > > > it is eternally debated as is the case in this newsgroup and others.
> > > > I do not have to understand what you wrote above to know that it
> > > > makes sense. I don't have to know it anyway, all I have to do is feel
> > > > it.
> > > Now that's the real problem isn't it. You can't understand and those who can, won't as they care for their careers.
> > > Sad.
> > > Talking of word sounds, yes, I am always up against professors, physicists, politicians, pimps, presstitutes and prostitutes.
> > > The "p" word relates to rudeness in Bengali - is that universal??
> > > >
> > > > Do ya feel me?
> > >
> > > Oops I feel I made a mistake and gave the wrong videos! Sorry, sorry.
> > >
> > > Please check out the videos below:
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a net positive torque when the wheel is set into motion. This torque has to remain constant and creates energy for all time to come, so long as the bearings remain same, the mass does not change and no forces cause the wheel to stop.
> > >
> > > Scientific explanation follows:
> > > The turning moment formula is m *g * L where L is the horizontal distance to the vertical through the axis of rotation.
> > >
> > > Let m be the mass of each bottle. Let there be N bottles)
> > > Then the formula for the net torque is:
> > > T = m * g * N * sigma(i from 1 to N) [L(i)], note that half the L values will be negative.
> > > where L is the distance of the centre of gravity for the i bottle from the axis, g is acceleration due to gravity.
> > >
> > > Now observation shows that at the distances L are not uniform.
> > > Those to the left are more than those to the right, that coming from the geometry of the water in the bottle.
> > > Thus the above formula can be modified to, taking two bottles at the same height in opposite directions, and seeing the
> > > length difference between them as d
> > > T = m * g * N/2 * sigma(i from 1 to N/2) [ d(i) ]

> > >
> > > And that is the positive quantity, and keeps the wheel rotating perpetually - in theory and as per maths - unless opposed by forces external causing counteracting torque.
> > > https://www.facebook.com/greatdiyidea/videos/603231088687771
> > > shows energy generation.
> > >

> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Aag0J0Qe4&t=312s
> > > (In the video above, the scientist who made the equipment says that it has been going on for a month, and will stop only when he stops it.)
> > > With bigger radii, greater mass, the torque will be more.
> > >
> > > This will never be very powerful, nor mobile, so it will have limited uses.
> > > People can make a number of these to power their homes, charge batteries, make hydrogen etc.
> > > However when enlarged and kept in farms, it will give out 7*24 energy to supplement solar, wind, geo, tidal, etc.
> > >
> > > Pakistanis using the Perendev simulation permanent magent free energy motors have found use in pumping out water.
> > >
> > > Free energy motors of the above are sold every day in Alibaba. Theyh are expensive and not exacly DIY.
> > >
> > > Now let us find the average power generated by the wheel in the youtube video.
> > >
> > > (The below is a rough intial approach.)
> > >
> > > Power = Torque * Angular Velocity
> > > Let us put in values (roughly)
> > > m=1.5Kg
> > > N=10
> > > g=9.8
> > > As T = m * g * N/2 * sigma(i from 1 to N/2) [ d(i) ]
> > > So far so good, but now the going gets difficult
> > > The force of the water on the far side of the bottle effectively increases the turning length d(i)
> > > It is directed outwards, unlike in the case when the bottle is ascending. There the force is on the cap from the water sploshing back on the cap, inwards thus.
> > > Greater this force, with denser liquid, greater the torque.
> > > This variation in the geometry due to the liquid state is what the invention is all about - the centre of gravity changes.
> > > Assuming this last factor to be unity, we have
> > > T = 1.5*9.8*5 or roughly 75 N-m
> > > Power is Torque * Angular velocity in radians/sec
> > > Seems to me from the video a full rotation is done in about 3 seconds, so w = 2pi/3 or say 2.
> > > Then the power that is got from the device is T=75*2 = 150 watts.
> > >
> > > Evidently that is enough to power a light bulb and a fan, as is shown in one of the videos.
> > >
> > > With lead balls in the bottles, the sploshing will be even more powerful.
> > I did not view the clip but did see you reference in an earlier post.
> > I get lost in the techno stuff, but I can feel my way around it. Sounds
> > like a Jules Verne type gizmo, only perhaps more useful? Whatever
> > it is, I don't doubt that something can be made of it.
> When I go to India this winter (there) I will try to get that done. No point doing it here in Australia.
> Idea will be to put ten or more bicycle wheels on a shaft, and try to see what happens after that.
> > Also, your comment: "Those who don't know can't do anything
> > and those who do know don't want to do anything" - or however
> > you phrased it, it is correct.
> Thanks.
> Except for one thing. I do understand
> > it but don't care because I am just as positive about the future as
> > you. So much so in fact that I don't care what happens because I
> > believe that in the end, no matter what it is, it's all going to be for
> > the better. I have no religion, but I do have faith. A lot of faith.
> How wonderful. Without faith man is a robot. Religion unfortunately creates robots, under bad theologies and unscrupulous elites.
> The Vedic religion I follow relates to pure magic (that is, what causes wonder leading to change on a momentous basis)
> and is the source of all that is good and wonderful.
> I explain that in the Chandi-paath, pure magic that is. In Sanskrit. Happens once a year, to the public.
> > I don't care what happens and that includes the environment.
> > People debate, "Is there global warming or not?" Me, I don't
> > care. If there is global warming I have enough faith to believe
> > that it's happening for a good reason. I believe that any change,
> > no matter how severe it may seem - if it happens slowly enough
> > life will adapt to it. Life will adapt to anything. Can a living creature
> > as we know them today live in 200 degrees fahrenheit? No, not
> > now. But if the steering temperatures go up gradually enough
> > we will adapt to it for sure. Same the other way. Life cannot die.
> > It could be a blessing, it could be a curse. Who knows? So for
> > now all I can say is, "I'm a nice guy and I care about a lot of things,
> > but in general not enough to go to war over them."
> Personally I go into the deepest aspects of things, with guidance from the kindly spiritual beings.
> Being a researcher, works like that. Faith, yes, faith is the key word.
> For example I point out that global warming is caused by the greenhouse effect.
> The greenhouse effect is caused by greenhouse gases, mainly carbon dioxide.
> Thousands of jet engines belch out many tons of CO2 in the upper atmosphere, where they remain.
> Causing the global warming.
> The professors don't like that thought. Along with the physicists, politicians, pimps, presstitues and prostitutes.

> Anything to show that CO2 produced near the ground is a GOOD gas.
> It being heavy falls to the ground, and in due course becomes limestone, marble, etc.
> Now that is the last thing they want the world to know.
> They scare people for the funding, from nukes to global warming.
> > Let it go, man, let it go!

> Yes, let all fling rotten tomatoes at the e=mcc=hv blathering professors!
> Up Newton, Down Einstein!

Down with them all (unless they agree with my philosophies). Even
then, none of them go on the pedestal. Science, the flip side of the
same coin with religion on the other side. Me? I'm an intuitive scientist.
A genius of the highest order. But I can't prove and wouldn't even if I
could.

Onward!

[Thomas Joseph]

Adam, I lied when I said I'd check out your link later on my smartphone.
Well, it wasn't a lie exactly - I never lie - but I just didn't get around to it.
I was in bed all day and night. I sometimes go 4 days at a clip. It's sick.
But who knows, maybe I need it. Yes, intuitively I can feel it - I can feel
that I need it. So it's alright. Anyway, I didn't check it out yet but I swear
I will later when I get back to the bed - when I'm still awake and ready to
fully abzorbbbbb everything the words and pictures have to offer. Thanks.

The Honest One

[Thomas Joseph]

> Only question is, do you have an open mind, or are blinded by dogma, or
> career considerations?
> >
> > Do ya feel me?
>
> I think so. Point is, is there still a can-do spirit left in the US?

Yes, I think there still is a can do spirit in the US and all around
the world. But I am not a part of it. I have so much faith in other
people making things right that I don't feel the need to get involved.
Come on people, it's time to get involved. Ok, you first. Come on
everybody, get in line. I'm right behind you!

Let's do this thing!

[Thomas Joseph]

I genuinely like to feel that I am not blinded by anything. I like
to believe I have a very open mind. Now of course there are
plenty of people with narrow minds who say the same thing.
Oh shit, I could be one of them. But I doubt it. I have no dogma.
I have my own ever evolving philosophy that says nothing ever
remains the same. As a result, getting involved in any so-called
socially relevant project of any kind is a waste of time and not
needed on my part. As the real experts of our age take control
it is my duty to back off and let them have at it. And I say, "Go
boys, go, get things done - make this world work - do what's
right for all of us."

"Let's go, let's go!" No Adam, I am not blinded by dogma or
anything else. I think.

[Thomas Joseph]

> Arindam Banerjee wrote:

> Personally I go into the deepest aspects of things, with guidance from the kindly spiritual beings.
> Being a researcher, works like that. Faith, yes, faith is the key word.
> For example I point out that global warming is caused by the greenhouse effect.
> The greenhouse effect is caused by greenhouse gases, mainly carbon dioxide.
> Thousands of jet engines belch out many tons of CO2 in the upper atmosphere, where they remain.
> Causing the global warming.
> The professors don't like that thought. Along with the physicists, politicians,
> pimps, presstitues and prostitutes.
> Anything to show that CO2 produced near the ground is a GOOD gas.
> It being heavy falls to the ground, and in due course becomes limestone, marble, etc.
> Now that is the last thing they want the world to know.
> They scare people for the funding, from nukes to global warming.
> > Let it go, man, let it go!
> Yes, let all fling rotten tomatoes at the e=mcc=hv blathering professors!
> Up Newton, Down Einstein!

I am into things in a very deep way that cannot be explained by
science or religion and in fact needs no explanation because I
too am incapable of explaining it. For example, global warming.
People will assume a person doesn't believe such a thing exists
simply because they haven't hopped aboard the GreenPeace ship.
I believe such a thing exists. But I believe it is natural. And I believe
the people most vocally opposed to it contribute to it just as much
as anyone else and possibly in some cases even more. Just let
it happen. So the earth gets warmer and all kinds of bad stuff
happens. Or maybe we can go the other way, with our globe of life
turning into a frozen ball of ice.

There is some truth in the world, no doubt - but most of what
we see and hear is a sales job of some sort. I don't trust it the
same way I don't trust doctors. I don't think they are out to get
me, I just think they don't near as much as they should to have
those diplomas on their wall.

As for the global warming thing - for or against - (must it always
be for or against?) - it reminds me of when OJ Simpson was on
trial for murder and people would ask me, "Tom, do you think OJ
did it or not?" To which I would reply, "Oh, I think he did it alright.
But I don't think he's guilty."

I feel sort of the same about the global warming thing

[Thomas Joseph]

I know nothing about traditional science, but I do believe it's
possible we have taken workable things off the shelves and
replaced them with newer stuff that always does nothing but
get new and improved over and over again, or so they say. I
mean, progress is fine, but I think it's gone far enough. Just
kidding there. But really, I do believe there are a lot of older
things that have been shelved intentionally, especially in
regards to the pharm industry - and all industries for that
matter, which is what most scientific 'discoveries' seem to
become in time - industries that don't want to die at any cost.
I don't know about the contraption Adam is talking about - I'll
check it out later - but I do not doubt there's a lot of older stuff
that would work fine to today that has been replaced by new
and improved bullshit. Like my uncle told me 50 years ago
about aspirin. He said it was invented around the turn of the
century and the pills cost less than a penny apiece. Then he
added, "If aspirin had been invented in the last 10 years they'd
be selling for $20 apiece." I sometimes suspect that a lot
of expensive blood thinners are nothing but glorified aspirin.
Not saying I believe it, only that it's surely possible.

[Thomas Joseph]

To me they're all pretty much the same. However I would say the
Catholic religion, although seemingly the staunchest, is also the
most free because there's not a lot of preaching, more just ritual,
at least as I remember from when I was a kid. The mass was
done in all Latin. Then there's the confession box, once a week.
Go to mass once a week, go to sleep if you want to, then confess
your sins once a week even if you have to make them up - and you're
good to go. Also, although I adhere to no religion - can't even come
close to it - I do tend to admire the staunchest religions that are most
resistant to change. The Catholics are very staunch that way. They
do not change easily. But we both know they will change in a hurry
if the bulk of their parishioners decide to bolt otherwise. With the
Catholics there is a bit less hypocrisy, it seems. It's kind of like
'giving at the office', something to get out of the way once or twice
a week and everything is cool. Some don't really believe, they just go
because they've been doing it since they were kids and that's the way
it is.

BELIEVE me.

[Arindam Banerjee]

Yes, I have no doubt that what that boy did with a bicycle wheel, soda bottles, pully and a small motor is well within the capability of many Americans.

[Arindam Banerjee]

Good, but then the point is, are you simply lazy?
Dogmatic sorts are not lazy. They may be wrong, but they cannot be accused of laziness especially when they smell profit.
Unless the porfit violates their dogma, in which case I know which comes first.

[Hibou]

It might be worth your while looking as Islam. It's a later, more
evolved memeplex.

[Hibou]

Le 22/09/2023 à 06:43, Hibou a écrit :
>
> It might be worth your while looking as Islam. It's a later, more

Tsk! "at Islam"

> evolved memeplex.

[Arindam Banerjee]

Not caring at all, is what laziness is all about.
So long as basic needs are met, why bother.
I saw so much of that in India. Where inertia rules, and how.

[Arindam Banerjee]

Avoiding drugs, doctors, hospitals, etc. was and is being done by healthy people who value sanity and integrity. Using good food, eating as less as possible, using hetbs ans spices, moderate exercise, using brains, developing skills, social interaction... all help.

[Arindam Banerjee]

Huge social solidarity, great for education, business, war, etc.

[Phil Carmody]

Strangely, it can have some merit. If the right group of people are
disagreeing with you, it can have some affirmative weight.

(I'm deeply Bayesian, and every time I see a red bus or a green banana,
I become more sure that all ravens are black.)

Phil
--
We are no longer hunters and nomads. No longer awed and frightened, as we have
gained some understanding of the world in which we live. As such, we can cast
aside childish remnants from the dawn of our civilization.
-- NotSanguine on SoylentNews, after Eugen Weber in /The Western Tradition/

[Phil Carmody]

More like a 0+1+0 = 3 one.

"On the third day", eh? Day was over on Friday, so that's 0. Saturday,
I'll give you that one. The cave was already empty at dawn on Sunday, so
that's also a 0. 0+1+0 = 3. Biblogically.

[Peter Moylan]

On 22/09/23 18:58, Phil Carmody wrote:
> Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> writes:
>> Le 21/09/2023 à 10:12, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
>>>
>>> AMDG as my Jesuit teachers taught.
>>
>> Ah yes, ad maiorem Dei gloriam - giving greater glory to a God who
>> is already infinite.
>>
>> Puzzling - but then, Christianity delights in such puzzles. It's a
>> 2 + 2 = 3 kind of religion.
>
> More like a 0+1+0 = 3 one.
>
> "On the third day", eh? Day was over on Friday, so that's 0.
> Saturday, I'll give you that one. The cave was already empty at dawn
> on Sunday, so that's also a 0. 0+1+0 = 3. Biblogically.

Zero-based counting hadn't been invented back then. Arguably it didn't
exist in modern English, for that matter, until the inventors of the C
programming language chose to imitate machine language.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

[Jerry Friedman]

And "already at dawn" doesn't mean zero. In Judaism, the day starts at
sunset. If that's what the Evangelists had in mind, Jesus died on Friday
(not long before the end of the day), so that's the first day, and he was
presumably resurrected during the night of Sunday, on the third day.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul Wolff]

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, at 07:11:26, Jerry Friedman posted:

>On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 4:55:000 >> On 22/09/23 18:58, Phil Carmody wrote:
>> > Hibou <vpaereru-u...@yahoo.com.invalid> writes:
>> >> Le 21/09/2023 à 10:12, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
>> >>>
>> >>> AMDG as my Jesuit teachers taught.
>> >>
>> >> Ah yes, ad maiorem Dei gloriam - giving greater glory to a God who
>> >> is already infinite.
>> >>
>> >> Puzzling - but then, Christianity delights in such puzzles. It's a
>> >> 2 + 2 = 3 kind of religion.
>> >
>> > More like a 0+1+0 = 3 one.
>> >
>> > "On the third day", eh? Day was over on Friday, so that's 0.
>> > Saturday, I'll give you that one. The cave was already empty at dawn
>> > on Sunday, so that's also a 0. 0+1+0 = 3. Biblogically.
>> Zero-based counting hadn't been invented back then. Arguably it didn't
>> exist in modern English, for that matter, until the inventors of the C
>> programming language chose to imitate machine language.
>
>And "already at dawn" doesn't mean zero. In Judaism, the day starts at
>sunset. If that's what the Evangelists had in mind, Jesus died on Friday
>(not long before the end of the day), so that's the first day,

I believe so. As I recall the story, the body was taken down from the
cross in hurry, so that his followers could have it entombed before the
Sabbath began at nightfall, after which work would have been forbidden.

Genesis says that God created the world in darkness, then added light,
and then separated the light from the darkness. And the evening and the
morning were the first day, which accordingly ended at first sunset.

Back to the crucifixion, death before sunset on Friday must be numbered
as occurring on the first day. Friday sunset to Saturday sunset would
have been the second day.

>and he was
>presumably resurrected during the night of Sunday, on the third day.
>

That's what we'd call Saturday night in modern English usage. Early on
Sunday morning. I don't think the 1960 film had a resurrection scene.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_and_Sunday_Morning_(film)
--
Paul W

[Jerry Friedman]

There seems to be more difficulty with Matthew 12:40. "For as Jonas was
three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be
three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (KJV. What's a good
modern translation?)

There's no way to get three nights into the Gospel story. This RC site
suggests that the Greek is a mistranslation of an Aramaic expression.

https://www.oursundayvisitor.com/why-do-we-say-that-jesus-rose-on-the-third-day/

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul Wolff]

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, at 08:36:01, Jerry Friedman posted:
>On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 8:56:370 >> On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, at 07:11:26, Jerry Friedman posted:

Anything's possible with translations of translations of
two-thousand-year-old hearsay.
--
Paul W

[Mack A. Damia]

Anything is possible with an active imagination.

[lar3ryca]

Especially so if you are imagining fantasy.

--
Whose idea was it to put an S in the word lisp?

[Lionel Edwards]

The Gershwins put us right on Jonah being in the whale's belly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ijhn3FlDQs

[Paul Wolff]

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023, at 17:40:06, Paul Wolff posted:

But just to throw some more counting method confusion into this, the
Romans had strange ideas about dates in their calendar. They kept losing
days, by our standards. For example, the day before the ides of March
came immediately after the third day before the ides of March. And the
adjective /tertianus/ means recurring every second day. To put it
differently, they counted daily intervals inclusively.

Perhaps the vulgate Bible had a role? But I doubt that.
--
Paul W

[Mack A. Damia]

Jude Lennon singing, "Imagine there's a heaven"?

[Thomas Joseph]

I care, but in my own way. I'm not joining any groups, if
that's what you mean. Point is, it's easy to say "I care." Lots
of people say it all the time and I'm not sure I believe them.
I care but am not prepared to die for any of the causes I care about.

[Thomas Joseph]

I was in the shower the other day and soaped up one finger and
stuck it up my ass. I felt a large lump, prostate probably, could
be an anal tumor - who knows? - but I am not going to a doctor
about it until it becomes almost completely blocked. I went to
3 different doctors about 7 or 8 years ago for problems with
incomplete bowel movements. They gave me a colonoscopy.
Otherwise I never would have taken one just because I'm a
certain age. Oh believe me, my experience with doctors has
not been extensive, but enough for me to know that to find one
who actually knows anything is a rarity - especially around here.
I do eat good food, etc. But everyone has to die. If I can't breathe
or am in severe pain I will go to the doctors. Otherwise I'll wait
it out. Sometimes things pass on their own. I have little to no
faith in doctors or most professional people.

My motto? "If you can make it through life without needing
a professional you can consider yourself a success."

[Thomas Joseph]

Some people are born into religions and they just stick with them
to the end. I am saying that the Catholics - based only on my own
experience with them when I was a kid - do not hit you over the
head with lectures. They have rules of course, but otherwise
everything is pretty much ritualistic. The Protestants, especially
the Southern Baptists - it's all about proselytizing. You can't be
a Southern Baptist without being a hypocrite, it's just not possible.

[Sam Plusnet]

If some 19th Century Americans decided that the text is without error,
then clearly, you must be wrong.

[Arindam Banerjee]

The Vatican was just fantastic. Amazing how much work is there, of the highest quality.
I have always found Catholics to be wonderful.
The Jesuits gave me a fantastic education. Along with the Soviets, who were also great in their rational and egalitarian way, they formed my mind in my developing years.
Which was given the right direction from the Vedas and Puranas, tha later and ongoing.
As a result, there is direct contact with the Divine for me, no need for intermediaries save for rituals which they know much better.
Religion then, for me, is not a pain nor a curse, but a constant source of joy and understanding, helping me to be better and also better off.
That comes from prayer, the source of magic.
However, there is such a thing as overdoing. Prayer need not be long or complicated or showy. It has to be sincere and personal.

Cheers,
Arindam Banerjee

[Thomas Joseph]

I was in a Catholic run reform school. They were funded by the state.
I was sent there for being incorrigible in public school. Whatever they
told me to do I'd say, "Make me." In the reform school you don't say
"Make me." In fact there was no talking allowed until the Brother in
charge would clap his hands and give the talk signal with one hand.
We were allowed to smoke but only if we were given the "Take five"
sign which was a hand held up with all 5 fingers showing. If caught
talking you were penciled in for the "Bendo Room" on Friday night
where guys were seated in one room and called alphabetically into
the Bendo Room to receive however many "bendos" their infractions
deserved. The board was an actual baseball bat shaved down flat
but ultra thick. Not like public school. One of these to the buttocks
and you're dancing around the room before bending over for #2.

Point is, as severe as the place was I am glad I went there. I am
glad for everything that ever happened to me no matter how negative
because it went into making me what I am today and I am pleased
with the results.

A prayer was said upon getting up and going to bed. In between
there were prayers before and after every classroom and every
meal. During the holiday seasons we were sent to church 3 times
a day. Very strict. I don't think the reform school worked for most.
Many - most in fact - returned. I was there 12 months and 12 days
and saw a lot of guys come back. But not me. It worked for me.
A lot of guys would escape. Climb the wall, whatever. If caught
(and eventually they always were - where is a 15 year old kid going
to hide out?) - they would have their heads shaved all the way down
and would be forced to wear shorts and a tee shirt even if it was 5
degrees outside. And they would stand on line for 30 days. No
sitting at any time for those on line. I was on line only once for
3 days. You can lie down at bed time. But in between - in class,
at the refectory, wherever - they had to stand. Except for taking
a crap. Taking a crap was a luxury for those on line. Anyway,
a somewhat brutal place, but I am glad I experienced it.

TJ

[Peter Moylan]

On 23/09/23 03:30, Paul Wolff wrote:
>
> But just to throw some more counting method confusion into this, the
> Romans had strange ideas about dates in their calendar. They kept losing
> days, by our standards. For example, the day before the ides of March
> came immediately after the third day before the ides of March. And the
> adjective /tertianus/ means recurring every second day. To put it
> differently, they counted daily intervals inclusively.

Their successors still do it. Eight days plus eight days is fifteen days.

[Hibou]

Le 22/09/2023 à 09:54, Phil Carmody a écrit :

> Hibou writes:
>> Le 20/09/2023 à 22:30, Arindam Banerjee a écrit :
>>>
>>> Yes, but cheap labour is not. Besides, there would be no one to show here.
>>> To repeat, the chaps in charge - professors, politicians,
>>> physicists, pimps, presstitutes, prostitutes - all unite in
>>> running away from anywhere near me with speeds Mr Usain Bolt would envy. [...]
>>>
>>> A bad review from the stupid and the biased, in the lands of the
>>> abovmentioned p6, has to be the best encouragement for me. [...]
>>
>> Curious point of view. "If everyone thinks I'm wrong, I must be right."
>>
>> That's not my view of science. Because it's based on evidence, science
>> tends to be convergent. This is in contrast to, for example, religion,
>> which is visibly divergent (all those gods and sects).
>
> Strangely, it can have some merit. If the right group of people are

> disagreeing with you, it can have some affirmative weight. [...]

I'm afraid I'm not convinced. It's a woolly, indirect way of thinking
that has no place in science.

Ideal scientists trust to the facts to tell them whether they are right
or not. Arindam is several parsecs away from being an ideal scientist.

[Arindam Banerjee]

I think in India the Protestants were mainly Anglican.
Who are the famous Southern Baptists of US - the Clintons?

> > The Vatican was just fantastic. Amazing how much work is there, of the highest quality.
> > I have always found Catholics to be wonderful.
> > The Jesuits gave me a fantastic education. Along with the Soviets, who were also great in their rational and egalitarian way, they formed my mind in my developing years.
> > Which was given the right direction from the Vedas and Puranas, tha later and ongoing.
> > As a result, there is direct contact with the Divine for me, no need for intermediaries save for rituals which they know much better.
> > Religion then, for me, is not a pain nor a curse, but a constant source of joy and understanding, helping me to be better and also better off.
> > That comes from prayer, the source of magic.
> > However, there is such a thing as overdoing. Prayer need not be long or complicated or showy. It has to be sincere and personal.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Arindam Banerjee
> I was in a Catholic run reform school. They were funded by the state.
> I was sent there for being incorrigible in public school. Whatever they
> told me to do I'd say, "Make me." In the reform school you don't say
> "Make me." In fact there was no talking allowed until the Brother in
> charge would clap his hands and give the talk signal with one hand.
> We were allowed to smoke but only if we were given the "Take five"
> sign which was a hand held up with all 5 fingers showing. If caught
> talking you were penciled in for the "Bendo Room" on Friday night
> where guys were seated in one room and called alphabetically into
> the Bendo Room to receive however many "bendos" their infractions
> deserved. The board was an actual baseball bat shaved down flat
> but ultra thick. Not like public school. One of these to the buttocks
> and you're dancing around the room before bending over for #2.

I see. Now I know why you are so much better than the goody-goody gumdrops here who have killfiled me.
You have been corrected, they do the corrections.
I have always suspected that the best westerners are those in jail.
Not that I want to go there, of course.

>
> Point is, as severe as the place was I am glad I went there. I am
> glad for everything that ever happened to me no matter how negative
> because it went into making me what I am today and I am pleased
> with the results.
>
> A prayer was said upon getting up and going to bed. In between
> there were prayers before and after every classroom and every
> meal. During the holiday seasons we were sent to church 3 times
> a day. Very strict. I don't think the reform school worked for most.
> Many - most in fact - returned. I was there 12 months and 12 days
> and saw a lot of guys come back. But not me. It worked for me.
> A lot of guys would escape. Climb the wall, whatever. If caught
> (and eventually they always were - where is a 15 year old kid going
> to hide out?) - they would have their heads shaved all the way down
> and would be forced to wear shorts and a tee shirt even if it was 5
> degrees outside. And they would stand on line for 30 days. No
> sitting at any time for those on line. I was on line only once for
> 3 days. You can lie down at bed time. But in between - in class,
> at the refectory, wherever - they had to stand. Except for taking
> a crap. Taking a crap was a luxury for those on line. Anyway,
> a somewhat brutal place, but I am glad I experienced it.

Well, Australia was made by convicts who got many lashes for bad behaviouir, along with a sound reform system.
You are a total aussie mate.
All the best, g'day.
>
> TJ

[Arindam Banerjee]

There are no ideal scientists around in these careeristic days, I am afraid, save for
Arindam (bin Einstein ban Gandhi) Banerjee, greatest genius of all time, sole god among lotsa devils.

[Hibou]

I say, old chap, I do believe your Freudian slip is showing.

[Thomas Joseph]

TJ wrote:

> I was in a Catholic run reform school. They were funded by the state.
> I was sent there for being incorrigible in public school. Whatever they
> told me to do I'd say, "Make me." In the reform school you don't say
> "Make me." In fact there was no talking allowed until the Brother in
> charge would clap his hands and give the talk signal with one hand.
> We were allowed to smoke but only if we were given the "Take five"
> sign which was a hand held up with all 5 fingers showing. If caught
> talking you were penciled in for the "Bendo Room" on Friday night
> where guys were seated in one room and called alphabetically into
> the Bendo Room to receive however many "bendos" their infractions
> deserved. The board was an actual baseball bat shaved down flat
> but ultra thick. Not like public school. One of these to the buttocks
> and you're dancing around the room before bending over for #2.

Adam wrote:

> I see. Now I know why you are so much better than the goody-goody
> gumdrops here who have killfiled me.
> You have been corrected, they do the corrections.
> I have always suspected that the best westerners are those in jail.
> Not that I want to go there, of course.

I knew if you responded you'd say something about that
and I'm glad to hear it. It's not just reform school. It seems
to me that most institutions beyond public school produces
a better all round product.

To the dismay of many I'm sure, it was in reform
school that I learned to type. You did what you
were told and you never knew what was coming
next. So one day I found myself in a typing class.
Had they offered the same in public school I would
have said no to it. But I took to it right from the
start, or so it seems today. In fact, I have been
accused often of being a typist by people who
don't want to call me a writer even though I myself
never called myself one. So I'm a typist, so what?

Also, remember I said the place was state funded.
So everything including the baseball uniforms and
typewriters was funded. There was a large recreation
that rarely saw any recreation. There were 4 full
size pool tables. I was there 12 months and 12 days
and played on those tables only twice. The first time
I can't remember why. The second time was during
the day. The Brothers told everyone in the division
to, "Get on the tables!" A short time later the doors
swung open and a group of visitors popped in. They
were from the state. They wanted to see how their
equipment was being used, I guess. Funny actually.
But I am glad I learned to type there. Among other stuff.
Thanks again. By the way, they don't kill file, they just
ignore me. I am used to it. This group is dedicated to
English usage and I'm not - so I understand. But you're
right, there are some stuffy ones in here - and in probably
any newsgroup anywhere.

[Thomas Joseph]

I am no authority on religion but have lived the last
30 years in North Carolina and I've never heard the
word "God" used anywhere as much as here. A
lot of people calling themselves 'pastors'. They
talk a lot about praising the Lord but it is obviously
a sham. Maybe the sham is so deep they don't
even know it. There are so many no-no's in their
religion that is impossible to not be sinner nearly
every minute of the day. The don't live what they
preach. They can't. It's not possible. I think Billy
Graham was one. Of course like all religions
there are branches within the same one, so I
suppose not all Baptists adhere to the same
tenets or whatever. Yeah, I suppose Clinton
was a Southern Baptist - don't know for sure
and don't care. Wouldn't surprise me though
as while Clinton seemed a regular guy he was
also another obvious hypocrite. But I don't
dislike the guy. I don't care much about
politics - the elections and all the media
bullshit - it bores me.

[Thomas Joseph]

The lashes cannot be avoided, only limited by good behavior.
Sooner or later you're going to do something wrong even if
you're not aware of it. But the first time I got the Bendo Board
was for talking in line. The guy in front of my was whispering
something to me. I whispered back. In the meantime I saw
the Brother in charge looking straight at me and jotting down
something in a little black book. My name. Penciled in for
the Friday night bendo party. I got 3 of them. That's plenty.
I was rarely punished. But to me, even in the orphanage, which
was a very perverted place by the way, I always felt like I
was living in a world of cry, where if it wasn't my own it was
that of someone else. I suppose watching others get the
lash is better than getting it yourself. Still, in a world where
not a day goes by without hearing someone cry, you may
as well be crying yourself.

[Thomas Joseph]

As an intuitive scientist of the highest order I agree with your
self labeling. Am I doing it just to agree so you will agree with
me in the future? No, I believe you believe you are a genius
and may in fact be the greatest genius of all time. But let's
not forget, even the worlds most intelligent man is still an
idiot in the big scheme of things.

I know because "I was there, man!"

[Arindam Banerjee]

I am not considered an idiot but I am treated like a baby by all those near and dear to me.
From my great-grandparents to my grandchiildren, now.
i suppose, that is their way of coping with me.
Well, whatever works. I am fortunate.

[Arindam Banerjee]

I was often caned by our Principal, Father Vincent Tucker SJ.
My crimes were usually related to talking in class, etc.
It wasn't on the buttocks, but on the palms, usually twice, with what we called the Jaipur sugar cane.
Father Tucker did not take any pleasure in that. He did it out of a sense of duty.
Later on we went on to tutor the King of Bhutan. We canees wondered it His Majesty too got caned.
Father George replaced Father Tucker.
He did not believe in corporal punishment. Standards got relaxed.
I think Father Tucker's influence was far more benefical.
"Spare the rod, spoil the child" does work when applied with concern and moderation.

[Arindam Banerjee]

I don't wonder, hypocrites have disfigured the teachings of Christ and turned the whole thing into one mass of self-serving superstition.
Let alone the example of Christ, as one who self-sacrifices knowingly and voluntarity for greater good.

[Arindam Banerjee]

Interestingly, my typewriter played a great role in googling!
I got a second hand typewriter as a marriage gift from my uncle. A Remington portable.
It broke off, a plastic bit, and I reparied it using chloroform! Some trick.
Anyway, I wrote smy M.Tech thesis using it - saved me money that way.
Prior to that I had written an essay saying how much electronics would help India, that at the height of the Indira Gandhi license-permit raj. In 1982.
It said the computers would combat corruption and increase efficiency.
It did get published in "Industrial Times". I have the old copies.
Then in 1987 I wrote my paper "A new method for partial match retrieval" and sent it to the US, Santa Clara. It was accepted and my company paid for me to go there and present my paper. Which I did.
It was the only paper in the 3-volume conference proceedings which was entirely presented via a manual typewriter. All others had used word processors. That way it stood out!
I suppose my contribution to modern search methods will be acknowledged one day.
Anyway, all that helped me to get a cushy research job in Australia, and I hung on to that until they got rid of our telecom research labs - why bother with it, let others do it, was the philosophy underlying the management decision.
A stupid population does become wealthy, for only stupid people can make money by the standard repetitive processes they do not get bored by.
The decision to "get stupid" thus worked in Australia, now a rich country where people like myself really have no place.

[Thomas Joseph]

I am glad to hear anyone say they are fortunate as long as
they don't overdo it, at which point it can look phony. But I
can tell you are serious. This is good. I feel the same way.

Aside from being one of the top (If not the top!) intuitive
scientists in the world, did I tell you I am one of the
best behavior scientists in the world as well?

I say that because I would love to analyze why you are
treated like a baby by those near and dear to you. But I
can't work to perfection on such scant information. I
would need to hear more. Or even better, to be there
to see things for myself. To see them treat you like a
baby, even if I have to sneak in detective style. Then,
and only then, would I be able to tell you exactly why
you are treated as you. But believe me, I can do it. But
I won't. Why? Because I am beginning to feel it's time
to start treating you like a baby.

Yes, I am a typist. I love to let the fingers fly. Wish I
could divorce myself entirely from what I'm writing.
I can do that when I'm walking around talking to myself.
But typing is not as easy. I am too aware of what I'm
writing. I would love to have no awareness of what
I'm saying, then to read or listen to it later. What a
luxury that would be. Or could be.

[Thomas Joseph]

The caning is interesting. At the "Pro" (protectory), some of
the Brothers had a stronger Bendo delivery than others, but
I never sensed that any of them got any pleasure out of it.
One Brother used what was called a "Two Hand Step Up"
where he didn't just deliver the flat bat to the buttocks, he
stepped up on his toes as high as he could to bring more
gusto into it. But even then I did not once sense that he
enjoyed it. As I said, some hit harder than others. Some
held back, I could tell. But no matter their delivery I never
sensed they got any delight from it. And yes, that would
have made it worse. Much worse.

[Thomas Joseph]

Well, your comments remind me of when people say, "Christmas is
becoming too commercial lately", and I tell them it was commercial
from the day it was born. I'm sure through time there were people
who followed the so-called teachings of Christ before Christ was
even born. So who needs him?

I was never wowed by Christ's sacrifice because let's not
forget, he is the Son of God, and when his brief earthly
suffering is over he knows he's going to heaven forever.
Not so with others being crucified. Anyway, I'm not anti
religion - at least not in a fanatical religious way. Just
saying I think the teachings of Christ extend way beyond
Christ and that he and his followers are not needed for
those who think on their own.

[Thomas Joseph]

I love the search bar - the greatest cross indexing tool I know of.
As for the keyboard, the first time I saw one I knew I'd prefer it to
any manual typewriter I've ever owned. And I've owned a bunch.
Back when people just sort of almost gave them away. But I
resist most changes and I do not deny it. But I love the search
bar. I do not carry a cellphone. I am glad. For the internet I use
a large desktop. I keep the government phone by the bed to use
as what I call "The Detective Bar" to look up the names of movies
or people I'm seeing on TV, or any kind of info I'm after. But not
opinions. I don't need the conflict. I enjoy using the detective bar.
I don't want to be a hypocrite. I am not a tech lover but I'm not a
Ted Kaczynski follower either - although, at times.............................?

[Arindam Banerjee]

Not in the western world of cruelty, no. Christ's teachings relating to various sweetnesses was new to them, with the Hindu ideas he got from his travels in India. But it has been commented that the only true Christian was Christ himself. No one sticks his head out for general good so much.
While that is an exaggeration, the example of Christ has been vital for me. I had a spiritual experience in Adelaide back in 2009. See me, how I suffer just for the cause of good, by stopping pollution of holiness! So take heart, persevere, never give up!

>
> I was never wowed by Christ's sacrifice because let's not
> forget, he is the Son of God, and when his brief earthly
> suffering is over he knows he's going to heaven forever.
> Not so with others being crucified. Anyway, I'm not anti
> religion - at least not in a fanatical religious way. Just
> saying I think the teachings of Christ extend way beyond
> Christ and that he and his followers are not needed for
> those who think on their own.

Irrelevant for me.

[Arindam Banerjee]

No doubt.

[Thomas Joseph]

Giving up is not a bad thing. Quitting. Which is better - or which
is worse - being a loser or being a quitter? I am a quitter. But not
from the start. I'll run as hard as I can in the 100 yard dash. But if
there's someone a good distance ahead of me I might quit at the
90 yard line. Yes, this happened to me once in life. I was running
a race - the race of life - and I quit near the finish line, around the
equivalent of the 90 yard mark - and as I sat on the ground
crying a fellow competitor walked up and said, "Don't cry because
you lost - you can win next time." I told him I am not crying because
I lost, I am crying because I didn't quit earlier.

That was a joke

[Thomas Joseph]

I believe whether it had an official name at the time that for
some the Golden Rule has existed since time began. It's
all related to empathy. I am pretty good with the Golden
Rule. Anything beyond it is a sales job. Like for example
the Ten Commandments. All those commandments are
already covered by the Golden Rule. But it's hard to sell just
one rule, so they expanded it to ten. From there it drifted down
to the "Top Ten" of this and that, an industry, a competition,
a bunch of crap. I am a believer in the Golden Rule and I
doubt that anyone is perfect with it, but I'm sure I come
closer than most. Anyway, one way or another under another
name, or no name at all, I'm sure the Golden Rule has been
around a lot longer than 2.000 years. It's an easy rule to
break. Breaking it could be a mistake, so I'll let that go.
Bending it is worse. Twisting the truth is almost worse
than telling a lie.

I don't know if I really believe that, I just said it because
I thought it sounded 'cool'.

[Arindam Banerjee]

Don't fight when there is no chance, is what Sun Tzu said in effect. If you know yourself and you know your enemy you cannot lose. That is what he said. There won't be many battles if people know themselves. Not to the death, anyway. Maybe some loss. Or gain sooner or later.
>
> That was a joke

[Arindam Banerjee]

India was at its peak when Christ visited, after the reign of Vikramaditya.
Jesus took back Indian thoughstyles - generosity, kindliness, devotion - back to the place of his birth, and tried to update the local religion with them.
It backfired, when greed in holy temple was challenged; his own people then got him crucified.
But over time, Chrisitianity which has nothing to do with the example of Jesus, developed for the benefit of western elitism and expansionism.

[Thomas Joseph]

> Arindam Banerjee wrote:

> >Thomas Joseph wrote:

> > I was running a race - the race of life - and I quit near the finish line,
> > around the equivalent of the 90 yard mark - and as I sat on the ground
> > crying a fellow competitor walked up and said, "Don't cry because
> > you lost - you can win next time." I told him I am not crying because
> > I lost, I am crying because I didn't quit earlier.

> Don't fight when there is no chance, is what Sun Tzu said in effect. If you know yourself and you know your enemy you cannot lose. That is what he said. There won't be many battles if people know themselves. Not to the death, anyway. Maybe some loss. Or gain sooner or later.

When there is no chance is not always easy to know because
from birth we are all saddled with the annoying will to live. So
even when you are willing to give up, you can't entirely. You
want to give up but the stinking will to live keeps getting in
the way. When to quit, that is the question. A funny one.

Puts me in my mind of an image I had some years ago of
a guy who is afraid of flying but has to do it every so often.
He has a plan. He carries a cyaninde pill on every flight,
ready to swallow it if the plane is nose diving to the ground.
But when? Now as the plane spirals down the guy is
faced with dilemma number two, when to take the pill,
because he knows there is always a chance that the pilot
will manage to turn things around at the last minute. So
for that guy the question is, "What exactly is the last minute?"

[Thomas Joseph]

Or instead of a cyanide pill he carries an ultra fast acting
sleeping pill - one that puts you out almost instantly. He
hates flying so much he wants to take the powerful
patient as soon as he gets aboard. But he never takes
the pill because he is afraid the pilot might somehow
manage to land the plane softly onto the water and people
are able to swim to life rafts but he can't make it because
he's so deeply asleep he can't move. He is aware of the
bad things that can go wrong no matter what decision he
makes, so he decides to make no decision at all.

[Thomas Joseph]

I can't disagree with that but believe that all religions
can be used for the benefit of those who start or maintain
them. I feel the same about all holidays, that they are all
commercials - just that some are more successful than
others. I don't care what the holiday is, there is always
money in it for someone. I feel the same about religion,
it can always be used by those who promote it. I am
not entirely sure a guy named Jesus Christ ever lived
to begin with - and I don't care. I have no religion but
am past ridiculing it the way I once did. I have a lot
of faith but no religion that I know of.

[Arindam Banerjee]

Whether or not he lived, or whether or not his followers were good or evil, point remains that the story remains.
Which is what matters.
Stories traditional matter a great deal to Hindus.
I suppose, fiction has taken over with more or less the same effect.
Like, Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc influence people a lot, not necessarily positively.
In fact, from the scientific and religion point of view, absolutely badly.
The solidify wrong and bad physics (warp, wormholes, etc.) and screw up the meaning of magic.