GAME OVER: Village Voice breaks down THE GAME

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RayGordon

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Feb 28, 2006, 11:55:34 PM2/28/06
to
The floodgates are opening: You can't even TALK about this at some of
the censored websites. Small wonder, since they made their money on
sales of expensive products that taught all this stuff. How long you
think it'll keep working, guys? How long before those ex-girlfriends
do the math and want revenge?

Source:
http://www.villagevoice.com/nyclife/0609,sylvester,72342,15.html

'Do You Wanna Kiss Me?'
How New York's women are wising up to The Game's pickup tips

illustration: Marcos Chin
"It was Saturday night, we had just had sex," recalls Caitlin, a
22-year-old private tutor living on the Upper West Side. "I went into
the bathroom. He had, of course, stacks of The New Yorker and some
other random books. Underneath the New Yorkers, I saw what I thought
was the Bible. And the first thing I thought was, 'Oh my God, he has
the Bible in the bathroom.' But it was The Game, the picking-up-girls
book. So I flipped through it a little bit."Five minutes in, Caitlin
felt like she was reading a script of her night so far: Apparently,
she'd been negged, cubed, kino'd, then f-closed by a PUA. She stormed
out the bathroom, book in hand. "He sort of didn't want to discuss it."

A neg is a backhanded compliment; the cube is a sleazy "interactive
demonstration of value" routine; kino is short for kinesthesia, i.e.,
physical contact; f-close is sex. That leaves PUA: pickup artist.

"Somewhere along the path of life, many men have picked up bad habits,
social awkwardness, and a lack of confidence around women," writes Game
author Neil Strauss in an e-mail. "Why aren't they allowed to change
these bad habits and start putting their best foot forward when they
meet women?"

Ask anyone: The nice guy loses; the jerk gets the girl. Since last
September, The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists
(Regan/Harper Collins) has broken down this truism to a foolproof
science.

Softbound in black faux leather to resemble the Bible, The Game reveals
the field-tested lines and techniques Strauss learned during the year
and change he spent interacting with the world's finest pickup artists,
leading "sarging" missions (wherein AFCs, "average frustrated chumps,"
practice their moves at bars on unsuspecting women), and eventually
living with a few PUAs in a Los Angeles mansion they called Project
Hollywood. Clearly explained, the book's tricks are easy to learn and
deploy, and quietly devastating in their success.

"I met him on OKcupid, the online dating service," says Kim, a science
grad student at Columbia, referring to a date she went on recently. "So
I figured he'd be sorta shy. We met downtown, and one of the first
things he said to me was, 'Oh, those look like comfortable shoes.' It
wasn't nasty-like, he didn't say my shoes were ugly-but he noted
that I was wearing sneakers not shoes, and it totally bothered me the
whole night." Kim went home with him.

Needless to say, rumors of the book's success have sped up the adoption
of its lines and methods. The Game has sold 170,000 copies so far,
keeping it in the Amazon Top Sellers list, while episodes of CSI:
Miami, Twins and even the Late Show have explicitly ripped details,
lingo, and character names from Strauss's forays. In just six months,
women have wised up to the book, catching men running Game mid-act, and
even turning the pickup lines against the men using them.

In a post titled "Playing With the Player," New York date blogger Dolly
(cocksanddolls.blogspot.com) recounts her interaction with "PUA Dave":

I decided to fool him by asking how long he thought Pretty Polly and I
were friends (we have known each other for less than a couple of months
but people have mistaken us for sisters).

He said, "Let me give you the best friends test."

My eyes widened and jaw dropped open. "You're a pick-up artist!"

"Look, everybody's always manipulating," says Strauss in our interview.
"The question is, are you manipulating for good or bad?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be precise, The Game is not just an elaborate crib sheet. The how-to
aspect was important to Strauss, but he programs it into a gonzo
journalistic narrative about his own transformation from balding, gawky
New York Times rock writer into "Style," the world's greatest pickup
artist, who by book's end has been with hundreds of women. One Voice
veteran, who remembers Strauss as a skinny, mild-mannered nerd
interning for then music editor Joe Levy, expressed astonishment at his
evolution into a "pussy magnet."

The book's guiding principle is that, today and for whatever reason, in
order for you to attract a woman, you first need to seem actively
disinterested in her. But unlike the bulk of relationship manuals, The
Game is not theory based. The methods discussed are empirically proven
"thousands" of times over. Strauss explains that when a PUA posts on a
seduction community message board about a new line that's worked for
him, PUAs around the world go out and try for themselves, then report
back to the board whether or not the line performed. Every contingency
has been accounted for. Nothing in the book hasn't worked.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even as early as October, I started noticing Strauss's book taking
effect downtown. For men completely lost with women, or for others like
Rob, a handsome but skittish twentysomething who spent years with a
college squeeze and no time in the field, The Game offers step-by-step
advice. Eleven steps, to be exact, and key lines and stage directions
for each.

Rob and his equally nerdy wing man, who only offered his pickup name
("Popcorn Dog"), were at Bar None on Third Avenue. The crowd that night
was a bit older and a little more divorced than usual. Exactly as
Strauss prescribed, Rob approached a set of two hard-looking blondes,
ignored his prettier "target," then addressed her friend with a canned
line he learned early in the book:

"Hey, I need your opinion on something. My friend over there, he wants
to buy a wallaby."

The two women were confused but intrigued, and that was enough of an
in. They asked what and why and how, and the absurdity of the question
overshadowed the discomfort of someone randomly coming up and asking
it. The target, presumably used to men approaching her first and
certainly not used to men who pretend she's not even there, finally
gave Rob some shit, revealing her thick Boston accent: "What are you,
friends with weirdos or something?" A perfect setup for Rob's neg.
Without looking at the girl, he said to her friend, "Is she always this
irritable?"

While Popcorn Dog flew in to occupy the target's friend, Rob now
focused on the target, armed with a dizzying mix of straight fluff,
playground teases, jokes about people in the bar, and then, finally, a
question: "Do you wanna kiss me?"

As mentioned, pickup artists have thought through every social
situation, planned for every contingency. If she says "yes" to Rob's
question, for instance, he kisses her. If she says "maybe," he also
kisses her. If she says "no," Rob responds, "I didn't say you
could--you just looked like you had something on your mind."

She said maybe.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That was November. By mid January, it seemed that New York was running
out of wallabies.

I followed Rob, Popcorn, and another wing named Reisig to Beauty Bar on
14th Street. The place was prime sarging ground: Simple eavesdropping
in the bar's backroom revealed a thick crowd of Upper East Siders,
wearing party shirts and expensive unisex cologne, who had cash but no
sense of seduction-no game. Strauss's moves would work without a
hitch.

Reisig went in on a group of younger girls, very early-'80s, Lower East
Side-look ing, their mascara running on purpose. Headstrong, he went
in with an opinion opener: "Hey, I need to get-"

"A female opinion on something?" she interrupted, finishing his
sentence, one that comes near verbatim from The Game. "I think David
Bowie looks great." That part's from The Game too.

Hardly cause for panic. As the book itself predicted, any venue, even
an entire city, can get "sarged out"; a PUA masters the Game, though,
when he knows how to tweak it-modify the lines a bit. Rob had an
idea, and approached a three-set with a new spin.

"Listen, my friend over there, he wants to buy an eagle."

But the girls' eyes rolled. One snapped back too: "Oh, interesting-my
friend wants to buy a wallaby."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forget overexposure. Some women appear to be reading the book on their
own as a precautionary measure. Dolly the blogger's PUA encounter
continues:

"I know what the best friends test is," I continued. "It's one of the
tricks pick-up artists use."

"What's the best friends test?" asked Polly (she had read the book, but
only parts of it).

"PUA Dave asks us if we use the same shampoo. We look at each other and
then say we don't know. He says it doesn't matter, because what counts
is that we looked at each other before answering, which shows a close
bond. The whole thing is part of a routine."

PUA Dave smirked and said he didn't need any routines.

I shook my head, heady on the knowledge that I knew what he was. "All
that making fun of me before was part of it, too."

"You mean negging?"

"The 'neg' and 'freeze out' manipulate a woman's insecurities, but New
York girls seem to have a steely, overinflated sense of self-esteem,"
believes Sia Michel, editor in chief of Spin. "This is a walking city,
so they're hearing hostile sexual comments on the street all day long."


A friend of Strauss, Michel has been put in an unusually comical
position to call out men running Game on her. Not only did she read The
Game when it was in galleys, but last year, when she flew to Los
Angeles for the Grammys, she even visited Strauss's Project Hollywood
mansion, described in The Game as the "church of the spread legs."

"One time someone came up and said, 'Listen, I've only got a couple
minutes, but I wanted to ask your advice on something.' And I said,
'Oh, you're creating a 'false time constraint.' He tried to act like he
had no idea what I was talking about, but I was like, 'I read The Game
too! Are you going to try a 'yes-ladder' next?' Then he just sheepishly
walked away." (PUAs use the yes-ladder technique to establish a string
of "yes" responses to short, simple questions like "Are you
spontaneous?" or "Do you like fun?" Apparently it gives a conversation
a jolt of positive energy.)

Michel became even more skeptical of the book's power after interacting
with Mystery. The legendary PUA, who brought Strauss into the pickup
network, invented the Mystery Method, a combination of negging, canned
routines (handing out bead necklaces, performing magic tricks, showing
photos of you holding a baby), and "peacocking"-dressing flamboyantly
to draw attention to yourself. Michel ran into Mystery and Strauss at
the Cutting Room on 24th Street, as they led a sarging mission:

"Mystery and his crew were going around the club performing magic
tricks on girls, followed by a crew of TV cameramen. I don't even think
they were real cameramen. I think the idea was, 'Well, if we pretend
like we're being filmed for a documentary, girls are way more likely to
talk to some tall freaky magician in platform boots and a leopard skin
hat.' "

But Mystery wasn't having much luck there, and decided to move the
mission downtown.

"We all ended up at a packed East Village bar, really late, and now he
was going full force, working his tactics on my journalist friends,"
says Michel. "There were ESP games, palm readings, and some faux
mysticism where he claimed he could stare into your eyes and glean deep
knowledge of your soul. He was wearing a ridiculous outfit-I think
leather pants and black nail polish were involved-which might have
been fine on the Sunset Strip but was incredibly cheesy for New York.
Virtually every girl there seemed to be shunning him. Finally he had a
meltdown and shouted, in the middle of the bar, ' ONE OF YOU IS GONNA
FUCK ME TONIGHT!' "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It would be natural for the book's methods to reach a saturation point,
and completely fine, except there's one problem: Women still love the
jerks. In a situation where most men's seduction instinct, learned from
The Game or not, is to play the jerk, then on paper it would follow
that men should compete with one another to prove to a target who is
the bigger asshole: proving their worth to her by flinging insults at
each other, rising to the top by cutting down the bottom, what have
you.

In practice, this caveman-style Game hasn't worked very well. At Black
and White on 10th Street, Carl B. approached a set of girls already
occupied by two fairly muscular men. One of them was wearing a hat that
said "Dubai," the name of a major United Arab Emirates city. "Hey,
you've been to Dubai too?" Carl pressed. The guy hadn't.

"Oh. Well, must be pretty awesome to have a hat from Dubai without
actually having to go there." Carl thought he was in; instead the girls
said he was "needlessly mean." "You should just leave," they told him.

Other PUAs nervous about the new rules of the Game think that if they
go full blast with Strauss's techniques, using as many as possible all
at once, they can overcome the obsolescence of the moves when used in
isolation. Call it hyper-Game.

Inside Webster Hall at the Plug Independent Music Awards in early
February, Jon brought an enormous camera rig, and in an aggressive form
of peacocking, took photos of people as they entered from the V.I.P.
door. Inevitably this would prompt a response from women, making him
seem both temporarily important-he had a camera-and less obvious
about his intentions-you know, he was there to take photos, nothing
else.

Key word: temporarily.

"Yolanda?" he asked, guessing my girlfriend's name after taking her
picture. It seemed like a bizarre take on The Game's "pick a number"
routine. (Quick: Most girls say seven, and in the PUA's back pocket is
a piece of paper with that very number.)

"What?"

"Am I close?" Was this a yes-ladder?

"It's Jelena."

"See I was close!" shouted Jon. "Jelena, like yellow. And you're
wearing yellow."

This guy was admittedly brilliant, but when he tried to close the deal,
his approach was so under the radar that something seemed suspicious.
He said, "You should give me your number so I can send you these
photos."

"Why do you want my number?" Jelena asked. "I can just give you my
e-mail address."

This would have been victory, but after playing so many games at once,
Jon had psyched himself out. "No, that's a bad idea," he said, adding
inexplicably, "I'm having trouble with spyware."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To think, the whole idea of The Game was to make approaching women
easier-and now women are warier of men than ever.

I call Strauss. He's at his new home in L.A., awaiting the delivery of
Panic Park, an arcade video game that, like Mario Party or WarioWare,
is a hodgepodge of smaller, genre-spanning games. One second you're
racing, another you're catching floating dollar bills.

What most bothers people about the routines, I tell him, is the
manipulation involved. Strauss spins it differently. Better to have a
nice guy who pretends to be a jerk for a couple days in order to get
you to like him, and then is a nice guy in the relationship, than the
opposite."

If anything, Strauss believes, The Game is doing women a service
because it's widening the dating pool. More and more kinds of men are
talking to them, which means they have more and better choices.

"They're making the rules-we're just trying to find a way to play by
them," Strauss says. "I talked to some of the women who I'd been with
afterward, and did interviews, broke down the experience from their
point of view. A lot of them knew I was running Game. They knew the
lines and patterns and routines. Even the first girl I had the
threesome with, she said, 'Oh, I knew exactly what you were doing. I
had never been with a woman before, I didn't want to, but I thought it
was such a cool thing that you were doing, so I went along with it
because it felt comfortable.' "

Strauss has read Dolly's Cocks and Dolls blog post, and points out that
even though she recognized she was dealing with a PUA, she still made
out with him.

"Nick, what's the oldest, cheesiest pick- up line?"

" 'Is that a sandwich you're eating?' "

"No, it's 'What's your sign?' We all know it. But the fact is, it still
works. Because (a) at some point when you're talking to a woman-and
maybe this is my Los Angeles experience but I find it generally to be
true-you're gonna end up talking about astrology, and she's gonna ask
you what your sign is. Do you find that generally to be true?"

"Yes."

"Second thing is, 'What's your sign?' is a neutral entertaining opener,
and it's a DHV-demonstration of higher value-it's the same fucking
structure as the openers the pickup artists use today. Before it was a
cliché, it was a nonsexual way to start a conversation. It
demonstrated that you knew something interesting and spiritual. The
openers today, like 'Do you think spells work?' are pretty much the
same thing. So nothing's really changed."

People need to meet, and it's all about thinking those interactions
through-specifically, how you might handle being caught using one of
Strauss's canned lines.

"If you are getting busted, all you need to do is have a contingency
plan," Strauss explains. "You say, 'Yeah, I just read that book! I
wanted to go out and try it today. It's funny, I get busted the first
time using it.' All you have to do is be smart about it. You can't be
knocked off course.

"It's almost like tax law. You got the government-and I'm not saying
the analogy between the government and taxpayers is like men and
women-the idea is they keep changing the law and trying to make it
airtight, and there's always someone out trying to figure out the
loophole, and they're finding it every year."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 151, a Lower East Side bar that's seen The Game manifest itself in
all too many ways, from plastic firemen's hats to amateur hypnosis, I
met Steve Lucien, DC, and Vic, three TV writers who had flown in from
L.A. for the weekend. Under the pretense of visiting friends on the
East Coast, the three really had come into the city because, as Strauss
writes at the end of The Game, L.A. is completely sarged out. They want
to investigate New York.

With them they brought new methods-they were updating the Game to
give old tricks new life. Recently Lucien had been doing something you
could call Reverse Game, in which he frames his Game-driven advances as
friendly warnings about Game-driven jerks:

"Hey, there's some weird shit happening in this bar," Lucien will say.
"These guys are just coming up and saying really weird shit to
women-something about an eagle? Then they're mean to you. It's sick!"


"Oh I know what you're talking about! That book!"

"Yeah, you won't believe this stuff. Like watch, pretend I'm one of
those dudes who read the book. Do you wanna kiss me?"

After seeing dozens of men at every Hollywood bar carrying around a
pocketful of beads to drape around women's necks, per the book's tip,
Vic had taken to carrying around plastic snakes, which he would
inexplicably leave on bar counters, and a $100 coupon for a $300
psychic reading. The coupons are a conversation prompt, often parlayed
into kino from women interested in astrology. Brags Vic, "I can usually
get the girl to give me a psychic reading in a few minutes."

Women expect clever approaches, but in post-Game, they might see more
roundabout versions, such as DC's new signature move, a pickup line
that takes over 15 minutes to tell and wraps up like this:

"Anyway, my friend has had this mustache for as long as I've known him
but he just shaved it and now he's freaking out because he has a really
bad tan line on his upper lip. He has a date in two days so we were
discussing what he can do. My question for you is: Should he wear a
fake mustache on the date?"

Overt is becoming the new covert, believes DC, after a night of
post-sarging that netted two numbers and, by his account, a "sorta
shitty kiss."

"Now I think it's about putting it all out there, like, 'Let's get
married tonight.' Other times, though, I have to be more guarded.
That's when I tell her I think she wouldn't be a very good wife."

Still, as much as the jerk is king in the dating scene, some women
think New York may just be immune to his ruse. As Michel points out,
"If you're an unattractive guy and you insult a model or other
beautiful woman in New York, why is she going to sit there and take
that? They'll just pelt you with ice cubes and wait for someone
handsome or famous to buy them a drink."

EditorialStaff

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 12:49:09 AM3/1/06
to
Gordon Roy Parker, AKA Homo Defectus babbled:
>
> The floodgates are opening:

You mean your DEMENTIA is in full manic phase?

Heck, we KNEW that!

> You can't even TALK about this at some of the censored websites.

Translation: Gordon Roy Parker can't talk about ANYTHING at ANY
of the MODERATED fora. That's because he is BANNED. He is BANNED
because he is continually disruptive, posts off-topic drivel like
the post to which we are responding, and is a mentally-ill Newsloon!

> Small wonder, since they made their money on sales of expensive
> products that taught all this stuff.

As long as he continues to lie, misrepresent, obfuscate, and malign
these fora, he won't ever be able to post there. The only money made
is in his psychotic imagination...

Gordon Roy, have you DUCKED a PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION lately?

Did you know there was another one on the way?

Ooops... Ought not to let those tidbits from Staff Meetings out!

Hee hee hee!

> How long you think it'll keep working, guys?

As long as there are Men and Women, tardboy... That's how long
it will keep working. And as long as you avoid treatment for your
debilitating and permanent mental illnesses, you will keep seeing
the fruits of those mental illnesses in people who either run from
you, throw drinks in your face, or laugh at you.

How long do you think people will continue to do that, Gordon Roy?

> How long before those ex-girlfriends do the math and want revenge?

Considering that you have never had a girlfriend you could prove
existed, much less can't get a photo taken with ANY woman in the
frame, it won't EVER happen...

But as long as you run your mouth, and are obnoxiously threatening,
you run the risk of something like THIS happening to you:

After squabble in movie line, man tried for manslaughter
By Emmanuella Grinberg, Court TV

(Court TV) — A trial to determine whether a 69-year-old
man caused the death of another senior while waiting in
line at a Florida movie theater opened in a Fort Lauderdale
courtroom Friday.

Seymour Schuss is charged with manslaughter for delivering
an ultimately fatal blow to a stranger waiting behind him
in line after the two had what appeared to be a minor
argument.

In his opening statement, Assistant State Attorney Jeff
Marcus told jurors he intended to prove that 74-year-old
Irving Rosenberg died from trauma caused by the fatal blow
Schuss dealt the retiree when he overreacted to an
unprovoked situation.

"He took a minor argument and escalated it into an incident
that took the life of Irving Rosenberg," Marcus said.

The rest of the article can be found here:
http://news.findlaw.com/court_tv/s/20040123/23jan2004212004.html

Gee, Gordon Roy... You had better be careful where you open your
mouth. You never know where an elderly man with a 'tude might
be waiting for you.

Gone are the days where harassing others and being obnoxious are
safe. Loudmouths of the world, look out! You too could be done in
by your own actions...

--
The Editorial Staff
-----
This post is an expression of our Constitutionally protected
right to Freedom of Speech.

Freedom of Speech is WORTHLESS without Social Responsibility.

A quote from Gordon Roy Parker, AKA "Ray Gordon":
"(For a dissenting opinion on my character, please visit
the following website: http://members.tripod.com/~rayfaq.html)*
This site contains many lies about me, but as a defender of
free speech I fully support its right to exist."
-Message-ID: <6ertau$76b$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

*The original RayFAQ was removed from the internet as a
result of dozens of complaints from Gordon Roy Parker.


Odious

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 2:55:48 AM3/1/06
to

"RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:1141188934.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

> The floodgates are opening: You can't even TALK about this at some of
> the censored websites.

No gordo... YOU can't talk about it, because YOU can't post your crap at
all.

Other people can talk about it, and have... mostly reaching the same
conclusions mentioned in the article.

> Small wonder, since they made their money on
> sales of expensive products that taught all this stuff. How long you
> think it'll keep working, guys?

The game is just the latest incarnation of material that has been in the
mainstream for quite some time now ray, and it all still works. Hell the
underlying structure has been around for eons. As has been pointed out to
you, the canned lines can get played out, but the vast majority of guys do
not rely on the canned lines as anything other than training wheels.

Most guys very quickly move beyond the canned lines, learn the core
structure, and begin to create their own lines and openers based around that
structure.


> How long before those ex-girlfriends
> do the math and want revenge?

Why is it that ray is so obsessed with the idea of angry fathers and women
who want revenge? Perhaps it is his history of doing shit like wishing
death on kids or trying to pick up 13 year old girls? Seems that sort of
behavior might cause someone to think violent retribution is the norm.

Perhaps some woman angry about getting herpes?


> The Game has sold 170,000 copies so far,

Good job, now what percentage of the total number of single adult men in the
US is represented by 170,000?


> Strauss has read Dolly's Cocks and Dolls blog post, and points out that
> even though she recognized she was dealing with a PUA, she still made
> out with him.

Bingo... it works even when they know exactly what it is.


> "If you are getting busted, all you need to do is have a contingency
> plan," Strauss explains. "You say, 'Yeah, I just read that book! I
> wanted to go out and try it today. It's funny, I get busted the first
> time using it.' All you have to do is be smart about it. You can't be
> knocked off course.

Adaptation, innovation, and creativity... all things that you lack ray.
Which is why you can't understand why these core concepts work, and continue
to work.

Cyberfox

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 5:34:26 AM3/1/06
to

"RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:1141188934.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

The floodgates are opening: You can't even TALK about this at some of
the censored websites. Small wonder, since they made their money on
sales of expensive products that taught all this stuff. How long you
think it'll keep working, guys? How long before those ex-girlfriends
do the math and want revenge?

-------------------------------------------------

Nothing new under the sun: I've always said that women like to be "played"
in the right way, they know the rules, and if the seduction material doesn't
work well maybe you can always think about something new, but the very rules
of The Game still remain the same.
And as Style already said: you can run a sort of "Counter Game" when a girl
says you're running games on her, like "Geez, I knew that crap just would'nt
work in real life..." and then start a conversation on that. You have to be
smart, don't ever be intimidated by women, even if they know what are you
doing.

By the way, GAME IS ON!!! FOREVER!!!

Best luck.

Cyberfox


Crimson Angel

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 7:31:46 AM3/1/06
to
Ray you rock so much it makes my toes and fingers cry out in agony as
they are at the point of exploding because of your sheer brilliance. I
love yah ray ray. Keep up the hilarity.

RayGordon

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 7:34:20 AM3/1/06
to
Countergame?

That's called ANTI-PLAYER, and it says a lot about the men if the only
thing they can do once they are found out is to lie and pretend they
never used the methods.

There arne't that many hotties to go around. Sure, *a few* men will do
just fine, as before, but that's not what build the "community." No
one's going to pay thousands of dollars for stuff women are already
aware of.

Alex

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 8:15:58 AM3/1/06
to
in article 1141216460.4...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com, RayGordon
at r...@cybersheet.com wrote on 3/1/06 7:34 AM:

> Countergame?
>
> That's called ANTI-PLAYER,

No it's not.

Learn to read.


> and it says a lot about the men if the only
> thing they can do once they are found out is to lie and pretend they
> never used the methods.

That Gordon sees the only way out of being "busted" is lying says more about
him than anything else could.


scruby

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 8:48:40 AM3/1/06
to

All that article pointed out was that the canned routines in "The Game"
are trite and played-out in New York's trendy hot spots. That in no
way implies that wimpy, supplicating, AFC behavior is the new mojo. It
means that the definition of AFC behavior includes reciting from rote
memorization, scripts, which are published in a widely publicized,
mainstream book. That doesn't mean AFC is the new PUA. It damned sure
doesn't mean that now "Nice guys finish first." It also doesn't mean
that a man now has to be rich/famous/handsome to get laid.

johnebravo836

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 9:34:59 AM3/1/06
to

scruby wrote:

[snip]


> All that article pointed out was that the canned routines in "The Game"
> are trite and played-out in New York's trendy hot spots. That in no
> way implies that wimpy, supplicating, AFC behavior is the new mojo. It
> means that the definition of AFC behavior includes reciting from rote
> memorization, scripts, which are published in a widely publicized,
> mainstream book. That doesn't mean AFC is the new PUA.

But does it mean that impotent, deranged, morally crippled social
misfits are the new PUAs?

AlphaHot1

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 9:42:50 AM3/1/06
to
Moral: Don't leave 'The Game' on the back of your toilet.

RayGordon

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 10:41:21 AM3/1/06
to
"Moral: Don't leave 'The Game' on the back of your toilet."

If women LOVE this stuff so much, shouldn't men be PROUD of what they
are doing?

AlphaHot1

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 10:53:44 AM3/1/06
to
One of the things that gordo just can't understand (or doesn't want to
accept), is that there is such a world of difference between what chicks
consciously say they want (or object to) and what they subconsciously want
and need. and are accepting of. Is he admitting that he's not the genius
that he proclaims he is? How could such a simple and base concept escape
someone which such a high IQ... a world-class chess master and prodigy on
almost everything?

From everything I can gather, it seems gordo expects women to come right on
out and state openly that they love pickup artists and seducers. Hell, most
women still won't even openly admit that they love sex or even have any
desire for men, even though we all know just how much they do.

As pickup artists and seductionists, we deal with females and the inherent
and almost completely contradictory duality of their nature; their "chick
logic." We don't deny this duality of their nature. We embrace it and use
it for both her benefit and ours. We deal with their chick logic, much or
most of which is cause by vicious and malicious societal programming which
never gave any form of just or compassionate consideration to a female's
long-term ability to experience pleasure and enjoyment. Quite the opposite
in fact.

It's true that only a handful of females will be the ones to come forward
and simply admit honestly that it is these men, the good pickup artists and
seductionists, who have allowed them to do and enjoy what they really
wanted to do all the long, but could never admit to because of the
unrelenting scrutiny of the cruel and unruly machine of societal
programming.

As pickup artist and seductionists we don't become disillusioned with
chicks just because they have been programmed by society (against their
awareness) to take responsibility for pretty much nothing, not even their
decisions which lead to their own sexual pleasure and gratification. As
Odious has said, it has been this way for eons.

In brief, keep it entirely in the realm of possibility that you may give a
chick such incredible feelings and experiences, such mind-blowing sex that
she's screaming in ecstasy, and on occasion only to later hear her say, "I
didn't really want to do that." Certainly she did, and you and her both
know it. But just as we men must play the game in our way, they must also
play it in their's. It isn't right or wrong, it's just how it works.

I would highly recommend the article on which this post was based to the
entry level AFC who wants to stare chick logic in the face and get a real
good look at it, and to understand the inherent nature and duality of the
chicks you'll be dealing with in this game.

-AH1

Odious

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 10:55:58 AM3/1/06
to

"RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:1141216460.4...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...

> Countergame?
>
> That's called ANTI-PLAYER,

No it is called cockblocking... and there's nothing new about it. For as
long as there have been guys with seductive skills, there have been other
men trying to put them down for it, as a way of trying to improve their own
chances.

The fact you try to slap a different name on the idea and take credit for
it, accomplishes nothing but to expose what a total loser you are.

>and it says a lot about the men if the only
> thing they can do once they are found out is to lie and pretend they
> never used the methods.

Who said that's the only thing they can do?


> There arne't that many hotties to go around.

Sure there are because, as has been pointed out and you continue to ignore,
what one considers attractive can differ significantly from guy to guy. You
operate, as usual, on a faulty premise that there is some set in stone
universal standard of beauty and that all men are trying to nail the half
dozen women at the top of that scale. It is shit like this which shows
experienced PUAs and seducers that you are a liar with little or no real
experience.

You really know nothing about seduction or women, or men for that matter.
You are a fraud who has to scream the sky is falling because nobody is
interested in your garbage methods. After all who wants to learn social
skills from someone who so clearly lacks even the most basic underpinnings
of human socialization?


> Sure, *a few* men will do
> just fine, as before, but that's not what build the "community." No
> one's going to pay thousands of dollars for stuff women are already
> aware of.

Men don't pay thousands for the material... they pay for the one-on-one in
the field training.

Something that Mr. Pay Me Ten Grand For My New Material will never
understand because he's a fake with no real social skills at all.


RayGordon

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 11:24:42 AM3/1/06
to
AlphaNOT writes:

"One of the things that gordo just can't understand"

go by RAY, little girl.


" (or doesn't want to accept), is that there is such a world of
difference between what chicks consciously say they want (or object
to) and what they subconsciously want
and need. and are accepting of. Is he admitting that he's not the
genius
that he proclaims he is? How could such a simple and base concept
escape
someone which such a high IQ... a world-class chess master and prodigy
on
almost everything? "

Notice the difference: AlaphaNOT, who claims to live in one of the
wealthiest areas of the country (where women are easily bought or led
on by money), doesn't introduce the women who supposedly love this
stuff, while the Voice talks to the ACTUAL women, and the responses
there are overwhelmingly NEGATIVE.


"From everything I can gather, it seems gordo":

I go by RAY, pussy.


"expects women to come right on out and state openly that they love
pickup artists and seducers. Hell, most women still won't even openly
admit that they love sex or even have any desire for men, even though
we all know just how much they do."

As I said before, even if what he said were correct (and as the Voice
article and others show, he's not, the supply of hotties isn't going to
suddenly multiply overnight. Just as card-counters overwhelmed the
casinos to where they stopped dealing single-deck blackjack, the
readers of The Game are taking "game" everywhere, and women are now
realizing that it was just a bunch of shit on websites, not that the
guys were REALLY seductive or REALLY alpha (AlphaNOT is a real MOUTH,
not a real man). It was an ACT, an ILLUSION, one that The Game
SHATTERED and will continue to shatter.


"As pickup artists and seductionists, we deal with females and the
inherent
and almost completely contradictory duality of their nature; their
"chick
logic." We don't deny this duality of their nature. We embrace it and
use
it for both her benefit and ours. We deal with their chick logic, much
or
most of which is cause by vicious and malicious societal programming
which
never gave any form of just or compassionate consideration to a
female's
long-term ability to experience pleasure and enjoyment. Quite the
opposite
in fact. "

Notice that he's calling women liars (by saying that they say one thing
and do another). Not exactly respectful of women, is it? I have
observed that women are going to be the ones who hate The Game because
it's taking away their excuse, showing them how to weed out the man
they *claim* not to want. That was a common theme of the Voice
article. Problem is, women value their reputations and won't tolerate
being likened to the women in the book. They can't, because no AFC is
going to stay her friend if she admits she's slut trash.

50 guys sharing the same slut doesn't make 50 players, btw.


"It's true that only a handful of females will be the ones to come
forward
and simply admit honestly that it is these men, the good pickup artists
and
seductionists, who have allowed them to do and enjoy what they really
wanted to do all the long, but could never admit to because of the
unrelenting scrutiny of the cruel and unruly machine of societal
programming."

Bullshit. Hot women ALWAYS have the option of doing what they want.
The only reason they act "oppressed" is not because they cannot do it,
but because they DO NOT WANT TO ADMIT IT. It has nothing to do with
being labeled a slut, but rather with the AFCs who would be wondering
when they get their turn, or why they didn't. In the past, they liked
the idea that they were putting one over on the clueless nice guy.
That is no longer the case either. Being the "Secret Slut" is fun;
being the TOWN SLUT is not. By pretending to be good girls, they get
MONEY out of AFC men that they string along by saying that they don't
put out for anyone. To that extent, the book exposes these women as
frauds, literally.


"As pickup artist and seductionists we don't become disillusioned with
chicks just because they have been programmed by society (against their

awareness) to take responsibility for pretty much nothing, not even
their
decisions which lead to their own sexual pleasure and gratification. As

Odious has said, it has been this way for eons. "

Figures he'd speak highly of a lying sack of shit like Odiot. Oh wait,
maybe AlphaNOT really BELIEVES it's not his money doing the work,
because the women TELL him that....silly BOY.

As for the sexual pleasure and gratification, you can delude yourself
into thinking you're better in bed than me if you need to, but that
doesn't make it true, either. The women can get sexual gratification
from nice guys just as easily; if they WANT TO. The issue here is who
gets to bat, not what they do at bat.

What the women take issue with is being deceived in order to get laid,
and make no mistake, players LIE.

AlphaNOT is wise enough not to subject his women to any type of
scrutiny, because the devil is always in the details.


"In brief, keep it entirely in the realm of possibility that you may
give a
chick such incredible feelings and experiences, such mind-blowing sex
that
she's screaming in ecstasy, and on occasion only to later hear her say,
"I
didn't really want to do that." Certainly she did, and you and her
both
know it. But just as we men must play the game in our way, they must
also
play it in their's. It isn't right or wrong, it's just how it works. "

As I said before, AlphaNOT likes to think he's a special stud in bed;
maybe that helps his confidence. Wealthy guys get laid rather easily,
however, and he said he lives in one of the wealthiest enclaves in the
US, and he's in Florida, no less, where the spring break sluts go every
spring. Nothing new there.

The article shows what REAL WOMEN think of "gamers," especially when
they realized the guy was COACHED.

"I would highly recommend the article on which this post was based to
the
entry level AFC who wants to stare chick logic in the face and get a
real
good look at it, and to understand the inherent nature and duality of
the
chicks you'll be dealing with in this game. "

The AFC should also look at the lengths women will go to protect their
reputations. AlphaNOT knows this, which is why the piece of shit that
puts out for him won't be broadcasting to the world anytime soon. He's
just a guy with something to SELL you and a financial interest in
discrediting this article. He's as transparent as Saran Wrap, and his
AMOGing is laughable. He'd shit his pants before he'd ever mouth off
like that to my face.

He's just not much of a man. Real men don't need NLP to reduce
resistance, as they are already attractive to women, even without
money. Oh wait, he gets money from the AFCs he teaches, doesn't he?
Why yes, he does.

RayGordon

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 11:35:53 AM3/1/06
to
"All that article pointed out was that the canned routines in "The
Game"
are trite and played-out in New York's trendy hot spots. That in no
way implies that wimpy, supplicating, AFC behavior is the new mojo."

Boy don't the players get NEGATIVE when attempting to AMOG the HONEST
men out there who don't need MLTRs, and who don't need to be covert or
to lie. Time was that behavior was considered KIND and CONSIDERATE.
Only a true loser would put a man down for behaving that way, or if
it's female, she'd have to be slut trash. Women like that are bad news
in the long run. Remember Katya?

Mystery didn't come across all that well either, now did he?


"It means that the definition of AFC behavior includes reciting from
rote
memorization, scripts, which are published in a widely publicized,
mainstream book."

It means a lot more than that, namely that the men are getting their
game from websites. The book is just the tip of the iceberg, and
contains a bread-crumb trail that can lead them to the rest of the
methods. The whole concept of a seduction guru is what was exposed,
and no matter WHAT men do these days, women will see it as just another
extension of the book or a website similar to the book.

This man is arguing that Canned Routine #2 will work, as long as only
Canned Routine #1 was published and #2 was not. The problem there, of
course, is that canned routines are what was SOLD to the men, as a way
of leveling the playing field. If the "postgame" only works for men
who are tall, good-looking, have a high income, and are sharp enough to
come up with their own stuff, well, those are the men who never needed
the products in the first place. It's the WBAFCs who are fucked more
than anyone, since they lack the very things people now say are
necessary to seduce. Not that they ARE necessary, if one has the right
NEW THEORY, but not much new is being taught now is it?


"That doesn't mean AFC is the new PUA. It damned sure
doesn't mean that now "Nice guys finish first." It also doesn't mean
that a man now has to be rich/famous/handsome to get laid. "

Ask the sluts what they think. They don't sound too pleased.

I do agree that women have painted themselves into a corner, but even
if "Scruby" is right, they still have the problem of how to protect
their reputation while going for the players, when everyone watching
them knows that the players are just running well-known methods on
them. I said years ago that women are going to have to decide to
either stop fucking these players or wind up looking like sluts if they
do. It's really a no-win situation for them. She can't say it's "none
of your business" to an AFC she pretends to be a good girl to, because
his friendship is based on the LIE that she's not fucking other men
right after meeting them. When word of that gets out, she loses a lot
of AFC resources.

PUAs in the past had the benefit of AFC suckers keeping the girl happy
while they got the sex. If the AFC withdraws his resources, the woman
has to use sex to get them, as in poor countries. One person here said
that dating would turn into what we see in the black community, where
the level of distrust is incredibly high, and where an AFC actually has
a better chance, though sadly it's usually only after the jerk gets to
give her kids.

It's still GAME OVER, and let's not forget how many people here said
that the mainstream would NEVER care about this stuff. It seems to be
all they care about these days. What we see now in the "trendy"
nightspots is just that: the beginning of a TREND. Many trends start
out that way and filter down to middle America. Here, however, because
the internet is involved, we already have that to a large extent as
well.

GAME OVER!

Micawber

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 11:58:15 AM3/1/06
to
That is just retarded, you can break it down anyway as many times as
you want, but it is not going to change anything. Of course when a
woman finds out that it has been rehearsed and it comes from somewhere
else she is going to feel stupid because she has been PLAYED, the magic
lies in the fact that it seems spontaneous, natural, and unique. That
doesn't mean the underlying structure is going to fall apart because
some are aware of a certain (and keep in mind these are people's
specific game being posted, as each person learns the ropes they change
it and thus make it unique in their own way) strategy of eliciting
these values. Theoretically it is like if your lame foxhunting crap
worked and the sheep you seduced found out that you rehearsed to seduce
it, well, that sheep won't be letting you pull on its teets anytime
soon.

Keep hunting for those foxes Elmer Fudd

johnebravo836

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 12:13:56 PM3/1/06
to

RayGordon wrote:
> "All that article pointed out was that the canned routines in "The
> Game"
> are trite and played-out in New York's trendy hot spots. That in no
> way implies that wimpy, supplicating, AFC behavior is the new mojo."
>
> Boy don't the players get NEGATIVE when attempting to AMOG the HONEST
> men out there who don't need MLTRs, and who don't need to be covert or
> to lie. Time was that behavior was considered KIND and CONSIDERATE.
> Only a true loser would put a man down for behaving that way, or if
> it's female, she'd have to be slut trash. Women like that are bad news
> in the long run. Remember Katya?

Was she another underage gymnast that Mr. Parker was infatuated with? ;)

>
> Mystery didn't come across all that well either, now did he?
>
>
> "It means that the definition of AFC behavior includes reciting from
> rote
> memorization, scripts, which are published in a widely publicized,
> mainstream book."
>
> It means a lot more than that, namely that the men are getting their
> game from websites. The book is just the tip of the iceberg, and
> contains a bread-crumb trail that can lead them to the rest of the
> methods. The whole concept of a seduction guru is what was exposed,

What was "exposed" were unimaginative numbskulls who can't manage to do
anything other than parrot back, verbatim, "lines" memorized from a
popular book.

If Mr. Parker were anything other than an unimaginative numbskull
himself, it might have occurred to him that he should really being
considering what the situation is like for more imaginative men who read
the book, understand the basic principles, and then apply those
principles to come up with their own "lines" -- which aren't going to be
immediately recognized by anyone as having been regurgitated from some book.

> and no matter WHAT men do these days, women will see it as just another
> extension of the book or a website similar to the book.

If that were true, then even if a guy followed Mr. Parker's "methods"
religiously, then "women [would still] see it as just another extension
of the book or a website similar to the book" -- hence, if he's shown
anything at all, Mr. Parker has shown that his own "method" (such as it
is . . .) is equally worthless.

>
> This man is arguing that Canned Routine #2 will work, as long as only
> Canned Routine #1 was published and #2 was not. The problem there, of
> course, is that canned routines are what was SOLD to the men, as a way
> of leveling the playing field.

Mr. Parker's appears to be unable to imagine that any man might actually
learn some basic principles well enough to be able to think up some
"lines" of his own -- which is odd for a guy who fancies himself to be
such an "original" thinker. ;) I guess he's the only one in the whole
world.

Pool

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 1:12:13 PM3/1/06
to
I seriously doubt that any of the major critics of Neil Strauss' Book
"The Game: penetrating the secret society of pickup artists" has ever
finished the book. It is not the "Layguide". It is a novel. Its his
story about how he became a pickup artists, (which does demonstrate the
techniques) but utlimately in the end his lesson is that the society
destroys men without their own sense of self. It resolves with him
getting out of it with one of the most beautiful girls in the world who
likes him for everything the socieity isn't. I agree with strauss in
saying that theres nothing wrong with teaching men confidence, and the
ability to attract women. But that it's not important. Ultimately,
It's not at all unlike the story of the Date Doctor, HITCH. If you
havent read "The Game" all the way through. I strongly suggest that
you do.

(I'm new to newsgroups... please dont rake me on my first post.)

I'm interested in knowing how many read the entire book word for word.

Johannes Seppi

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 1:40:37 PM3/1/06
to
RayGordon schrieb:

> The floodgates are opening: You can't even TALK about this at some of
> the censored websites. Small wonder, since they made their money on
> sales of expensive products that taught all this stuff. How long you
> think it'll keep working, guys? How long before those ex-girlfriends
> do the math and want revenge?
>
Well, everybody can talk about this. OK, nearly everybody, you are the
only one banned from certain websites. Guess why, Ray?

[...]

Johannes

EditorialStaff

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 2:11:47 PM3/1/06
to
GORDON ROY PARKER wrote:

>
>
> AlphaHot1 writes:
>>
>> "One of the things that gordo just can't understand"
>
> go by RAY, little girl.
>
> I go by RAY, pussy.

But "RAY" isn't your name. You said so on COURT DOCUMENTS.
Your name is GORDON ROY PARKER.

You probably wished it were "Ray", when you DUCKED the
PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION you were COURT ORDERED to take.

Gordito Bizarro wants everyone here to think he is some sort
of Really Tough Guy [tm], but we all have seen him run away
wetting his little pink lacy panties whenever anyone calls
him on his empty threats...

Do you want to meet up and call one of the members of The
Editorial Staff a "Pussy" or "Little Girl" to our face?
We're sure that some of us can make a little trip to
Philadelphia. We'll even meet you in the lobby of the
Fairfax, so you don't have to go outside?

Want to try that?

We didn't think so.

You sure do have a tough mouth from behind that monitor...

Gordo...

Micawber

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 2:47:42 PM3/1/06
to
Can you link the document where it says he was court-ordered for a
psych eval. I'd love to see that document.

RayGordon

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 3:30:41 PM3/1/06
to

Foxhunting works well enough that pivots earn $50 an hour.

Lots of other methods have concepts that were co-opted from Foxhutning,
so you're likely using my stuff without even realizing it (don't worry,
my new stuff won't be so easily lifted). The type of asshole who would
bash the guy whose methods he is using is the type of asshole that
women love to fuck over, so in a way you just found out what drove you
to this group.

Micawber

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 3:38:14 PM3/1/06
to
I am assuming delusions of grandeur have been mentioned, right?

AlphaHot1

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 4:04:37 PM3/1/06
to
On 1 Mar 2006 08:24:42 -0800, "RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:

>AlphaNOT writes:
>
>"One of the things that gordo just can't understand"
>
> go by RAY, little girl.
>
>
>" (or doesn't want to accept), is that there is such a world of
>difference between what chicks consciously say they want (or object
>to) and what they subconsciously want
>and need. and are accepting of. Is he admitting that he's not the
>genius
>that he proclaims he is? How could such a simple and base concept
>escape
>someone which such a high IQ... a world-class chess master and prodigy
>on
>almost everything? "
>
>Notice the difference: AlaphaNOT, who claims to live in one of the
>wealthiest areas of the country

::::::: It's not a claim, it's statistics.

> (where women are easily bought or led
>on by money), doesn't introduce the women who supposedly love this
>stuff, while the Voice talks to the ACTUAL women, and the responses
>there are overwhelmingly NEGATIVE.

::::::: Interesting that you say the women in Southwest Florida are not
"actual" women. What are they, alien clones?

>"From everything I can gather, it seems gordo":
>
>I go by RAY, pussy.
>
>
>"expects women to come right on out and state openly that they love
>pickup artists and seducers. Hell, most women still won't even openly
>admit that they love sex or even have any desire for men, even though
>we all know just how much they do."
>
>As I said before, even if what he said were correct (and as the Voice
>article and others show, he's not, the supply of hotties isn't going to
>suddenly multiply overnight.

::::::: Where do you live, in some kind of dungeon? There are more
"hotties" out there than you are apparently aware. There are also a lot of
8s and 9s. Beauty, as I"ve indelibly learned, is incredibly fleeting, and
in many cases, largely an illusion. It can be faked, created, taken away or
lost. Compare images of some of the contemporary, young hot signers with
and without the clothes, hairstyle and makeup. The illusion melts before
one's eyes. It's nothing to discourage men, only a good fact to be aware
of. This should help to keep you from putting them on a pedestal they don't
immediately deserve.


> Just as card-counters overwhelmed the
>casinos to where they stopped dealing single-deck blackjack, the
>readers of The Game are taking "game" everywhere, and women are now
>realizing that it was just a bunch of shit on websites, not that the
>guys were REALLY seductive or REALLY alpha (AlphaNOT is a real MOUTH,
>not a real man). It was an ACT, an ILLUSION, one that The Game
>SHATTERED and will continue to shatter.

::::::: There are those who will use the book as only a source of lines
and scripts, in effect making it about nothing more than, "can I buy you a
drink? What's your sign?" which is what every teacher of seduction advises
not to do. The game is not about scripts and lines. And those who use it
that way, those with no imagination, will fail more times than not. The
true game is about lifestyle, and those men are succeeding and will
continue to succeed.

>
>
>"As pickup artists and seductionists, we deal with females and the
>inherent
>and almost completely contradictory duality of their nature; their
>"chick
>logic." We don't deny this duality of their nature. We embrace it and
>use
>it for both her benefit and ours. We deal with their chick logic, much
>or
>most of which is cause by vicious and malicious societal programming
>which
>never gave any form of just or compassionate consideration to a
>female's
>long-term ability to experience pleasure and enjoyment. Quite the
>opposite
>in fact. "
>
>Notice that he's calling women liars (by saying that they say one thing
>and do another).

::::::: Although it's possible for women to lie, notice that I didn't call
them liars. When I want to call them liars, I will use the word 'liars.'

> Not exactly respectful of women, is it? I have
>observed that women are going to be the ones who hate The Game because
>it's taking away their excuse, showing them how to weed out the man
>they *claim* not to want. That was a common theme of the Voice
>article.

::::::: Here's a secret about women. Women are going to be with a man they
"feel" right about. They are going to have sex with a man they "feel" right
about. To them it's all about and only about that final, bottom line
feeling. There is very little overt, conventional logic in how a woman
decides she's going to be with a man and sleep with a man. This is why a
woman's selection criteria seems fucked up and why we teach and study chick
logic instead of conventional logic.

> Problem is, women value their reputations and won't tolerate
>being likened to the women in the book. They can't, because no AFC is
>going to stay her friend if she admits she's slut trash.

::::::: There's that visceral response to "slut trash" again. You hate it
when women have sex, and the men who are having sex with them.

>
>50 guys sharing the same slut doesn't make 50 players, btw.

::::::: Where did someone say it did?


>
>"It's true that only a handful of females will be the ones to come
>forward
>and simply admit honestly that it is these men, the good pickup artists
>and
>seductionists, who have allowed them to do and enjoy what they really
>wanted to do all the long, but could never admit to because of the
>unrelenting scrutiny of the cruel and unruly machine of societal
>programming."
>
>Bullshit. Hot women ALWAYS have the option of doing what they want.

::::::: No, they don't. It goes to show how little you know women. These
women get approached and hit on by chumps and those who know nothing about
women, not men they want. They're almost bored to tears over it.

>The only reason they act "oppressed" is not because they cannot do it,
>but because they DO NOT WANT TO ADMIT IT. It has nothing to do with
>being labeled a slut, but rather with the AFCs who would be wondering
>when they get their turn, or why they didn't. In the past, they liked
>the idea that they were putting one over on the clueless nice guy.
>That is no longer the case either. Being the "Secret Slut" is fun;
>being the TOWN SLUT is not. By pretending to be good girls, they get
>MONEY out of AFC men that they string along by saying that they don't
>put out for anyone. To that extent, the book exposes these women as
>frauds, literally.

::::::: Things work in interesting ways.

>
>
>"As pickup artist and seductionists we don't become disillusioned with
>chicks just because they have been programmed by society (against their
>
>awareness) to take responsibility for pretty much nothing, not even
>their
>decisions which lead to their own sexual pleasure and gratification. As
>
>Odious has said, it has been this way for eons. "
>
>Figures he'd speak highly of a lying sack of shit like Odiot. Oh wait,
>maybe AlphaNOT really BELIEVES it's not his money doing the work,
>because the women TELL him that....silly BOY.

::::::: And you somehow have inside knowledge of this alleged money doing
the work and of my interactions with women? Or are you just throwing out
words as you always do.

>
>As for the sexual pleasure and gratification, you can delude yourself
>into thinking you're better in bed than me if you need to, but that
>doesn't make it true, either. The women can get sexual gratification
>from nice guys just as easily; if they WANT TO. The issue here is who
>gets to bat, not what they do at bat.

::::::: Women can choose to sleep with who they want to, not get complete
sexual gratification with anyone they want to. Two entirely different
things and women know it, to an almost painful degree.

>
>What the women take issue with is being deceived in order to get laid,
>and make no mistake, players LIE.
>
>AlphaNOT is wise enough not to subject his women to any type of
>scrutiny, because the devil is always in the details.

::::::: I do not routinely subject the women I interact with to
interrogations or grand inquisitions to establish that they are flawless in
every way. I have never had a woman where there wasn't room for
improvement. This also applies to 10s and Pam Anderson. Since there is no
such thing as utter perfection, I don't seek it. What matters is being
delighted with what you have.

>
>
>"In brief, keep it entirely in the realm of possibility that you may
>give a
>chick such incredible feelings and experiences, such mind-blowing sex
>that
>she's screaming in ecstasy, and on occasion only to later hear her say,
>"I
>didn't really want to do that." Certainly she did, and you and her
>both
>know it. But just as we men must play the game in our way, they must
>also
>play it in their's. It isn't right or wrong, it's just how it works. "
>
>As I said before, AlphaNOT likes to think he's a special stud in bed;
>maybe that helps his confidence. Wealthy guys get laid rather easily,
>however, and he said he lives in one of the wealthiest enclaves in the
>US, and he's in Florida, no less, where the spring break sluts go every
>spring. Nothing new there.

::::::: Again, for you it's about nothing but money and sluts. That's not
objective, that's just your bitterness showing through.

>
>The article shows what REAL WOMEN think of "gamers," especially when
>they realized the guy was COACHED.

::::::: Yeah and at some point in my life, someone helped coach me on how
to speak english... how to eventually walk as well. These abilities are
crucial key factors in my approaches and subsequent interactions. I wonder
why women don't hold these qualities against me, seeing as how it played a
significant part in her sleeping with me.


RayGordon

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 4:20:16 PM3/1/06
to
"I am assuming delusions of grandeur have been mentioned, right?"

This is the same man who is amazingly humble in front of the women he
is so clueless with. As I said, a dweeb. He needs to belong among
this group of men, which means he's not even his own man, and that's
why women don't go for him.

Message has been deleted

John Michaels

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 4:26:20 PM3/1/06
to
Ray, you have no clue about any of this stuff. Before you write about
"the Game", you have to have a game. Clearly you have nothing, nada,
zero.

You really don't get it. To explain it to you would be over your head
but your lack of comprehension is and continues to be quite entertaining.

johnebravo836

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 4:34:20 PM3/1/06
to

AlphaHot1 wrote:
> On 1 Mar 2006 08:24:42 -0800, "RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:

[snip]

>>(where women are easily bought or led
>>on by money), doesn't introduce the women who supposedly love this
>>stuff, while the Voice talks to the ACTUAL women, and the responses
>>there are overwhelmingly NEGATIVE.
>
>
> ::::::: Interesting that you say the women in Southwest Florida are not
> "actual" women. What are they, alien clones?

If they're dating anyone whose last name is not Parker, and whose first
name is not "Gordon", then they are, by definition, "skanks", "sluts" or
"whores".

[snip]

>>As I said before, even if what he said were correct (and as the Voice
>>article and others show, he's not, the supply of hotties isn't going to
>>suddenly multiply overnight.
>
>
> ::::::: Where do you live, in some kind of dungeon?

Are you trying to imply that Mr. Parker's mother's basement is outfitted
with a variety of sadomasochistic paraphernalia? ;)

[snip]

>> Just as card-counters overwhelmed the
>>casinos to where they stopped dealing single-deck blackjack, the
>>readers of The Game are taking "game" everywhere, and women are now
>>realizing that it was just a bunch of shit on websites, not that the
>>guys were REALLY seductive or REALLY alpha (AlphaNOT is a real MOUTH,
>>not a real man). It was an ACT, an ILLUSION, one that The Game
>>SHATTERED and will continue to shatter.
>
>
> ::::::: There are those who will use the book as only a source of lines
> and scripts, in effect making it about nothing more than, "can I buy you a
> drink? What's your sign?" which is what every teacher of seduction advises
> not to do. The game is not about scripts and lines. And those who use it
> that way, those with no imagination, will fail more times than not.

Let's see if Mr. Looney Tunes will be able to get this remarkably simple
-- but apparently elusive -- insight through his cinderblock skull this
time. I'm guessing no, but I've been known to be pessimistic at times.

[snip]

>>Notice that he's calling women liars (by saying that they say one thing
>>and do another).
>
>
> ::::::: Although it's possible for women to lie, notice that I didn't call
> them liars. When I want to call them liars, I will use the word 'liars.'

Mr. Parker simply cannot imagine that someone can be inconsistent
without being a "liar". It's especially odd in light of the fact that
it'd be hard to run across anyone anywhere who's more inconsistent than
Mr. Parker -- but that's precisely the kind of thing that makes him so
entertaining. ;)

[snip]

>>Problem is, women value their reputations and won't tolerate
>>being likened to the women in the book. They can't, because no AFC is
>>going to stay her friend if she admits she's slut trash.
>
>
> ::::::: There's that visceral response to "slut trash" again. You hate it
> when women have sex, and the men who are having sex with them.

Yes, this is one of the most salient features of Mr. Parker's warped psyche.

[snip]

>>As for the sexual pleasure and gratification, you can delude yourself
>>into thinking you're better in bed than me if you need to, but that
>>doesn't make it true, either. The women can get sexual gratification
>
>>from nice guys just as easily; if they WANT TO. The issue here is who
>
>>gets to bat, not what they do at bat.
>
>
> ::::::: Women can choose to sleep with who they want to, not get complete
> sexual gratification with anyone they want to. Two entirely different
> things and women know it, to an almost painful degree.

It does make one wonder whether Mr. Parker has ever actually seen a real
live woman have an orgasm. If he has, I'd think the chances are not good
that he was the cause of it.

>>What the women take issue with is being deceived in order to get laid,
>>and make no mistake, players LIE.
>>
>>AlphaNOT is wise enough not to subject his women to any type of
>>scrutiny, because the devil is always in the details.
>
>
> ::::::: I do not routinely subject the women I interact with to
> interrogations or grand inquisitions to establish that they are flawless in
> every way. I have never had a woman where there wasn't room for
> improvement. This also applies to 10s and Pam Anderson. Since there is no
> such thing as utter perfection, I don't seek it. What matters is being
> delighted with what you have.

This is a very healthy, sensible attitude -- and it is, for that very
reason, completely incomprehensible to Mr. Parker.

[snip]

>>As I said before, AlphaNOT likes to think he's a special stud in bed;
>>maybe that helps his confidence. Wealthy guys get laid rather easily,
>>however, and he said he lives in one of the wealthiest enclaves in the
>>US, and he's in Florida, no less, where the spring break sluts go every
>>spring. Nothing new there.
>
>
> ::::::: Again, for you it's about nothing but money and sluts. That's not
> objective, that's just your bitterness showing through.

Does anyone think it's an accident that he thinks strip clubs are
terrific places to meet high quality women? Hey, if you're trying to
steer clear of skanks, sluts and whores, that's where ya wanna be . . .

Alex

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 5:40:17 PM3/1/06
to
in article 1141230282.2...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com, RayGordon
at r...@cybersheet.com wrote on 3/1/06 11:24 AM:

> Just as card-counters overwhelmed the
> casinos to where they stopped dealing single-deck blackjack

Just got back from Las Vegas where EVERY casino I went to deals both single
and double-deck blackjack.

GAME OVER!!!!!!!!

Krus T. Olfard

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 5:41:12 PM3/1/06
to
"RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in news:1141230282.264276.306280
@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:

>
> I go by RAY, pussy.
>
>

Should I take that to mean that you are ashamed of your real name?
I suppose I would be if I were you...

--
Krustavus Teofilus Olfard

------------------
Everything I post is my opinion. If you don't like my opinions then
killfile me, if you have the balls.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

Krus T. Olfard

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 5:47:05 PM3/1/06
to
AlphaHot1 <alph...@Hooya.com> wrote in
news:t7ub02padbu0e8q32...@4ax.com:

> There is very little overt, conventional logic in how a woman
> decides she's going to be with a man and sleep with a man. This is why
> a woman's selection criteria seems fucked up and why we teach and
> study chick logic instead of conventional logic.
>

From his posts gordo totally fails to understand that women think
differently than men and when confronted with evidence of this he can
only respond by calling them liars.
Would any reasonable person take seduction advice from someone this
understanding-impaired?
I certainly wouldn't.

Krus T. Olfard

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 5:51:18 PM3/1/06
to
AlphaHot1 <alph...@Hooya.com> wrote in
news:t7ub02padbu0e8q32...@4ax.com:

> The women can get sexual gratification


>>from nice guys just as easily; if they WANT TO. The issue here is who
>>gets to bat, not what they do at bat.
>

Once again gordo shows how little he understands women and sex.

Fucking pathetic...

Krus T. Olfard

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 6:01:42 PM3/1/06
to

> This man is arguing that Canned Routine #2 will work, as long as only
> Canned Routine #1 was published and #2 was not.

gordo really does seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.

In my opinion that degree of failure to understand simple written
language must be the result of either mental illness or deliberate
dishonesty.

I wonder which it is?

Krus T. Olfard

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 6:05:10 PM3/1/06
to
"RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in news:1141245041.589842.129660
@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> The type of asshole who would
> bash the guy whose methods he is using is the type of asshole that
> women love to fuck over, so in a way you just found out what drove you
> to this group.
>

I do find it interesting that the only place gordo advertises his
pathetic website is this newsgroup and yet he deliberately insults
someone for coming into this newsgroup.
And then he tries to blame the failure of his business on others?

Damn, that boy is a laugh a minute.

Krus T. Olfard

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 6:06:30 PM3/1/06
to
"Micawber" <sacro...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1141248390.068524.56410
@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:

> This is retarded
>
>

He certainly does appear that way, based on his posts.

And gordo has admitted to having a mental illness.

Perhaps it's all wrapped up together in one pathetic package?

Krus T. Olfard

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 6:10:12 PM3/1/06
to
"Odious" <Odi...@cox.net.nospam> wrote in news:nujNf.134742$0G.102088
@dukeread10:

> It is shit like this which shows
> experienced PUAs and seducers that you are a liar with little or no
real
> experience.
>

In my opinion, based on his posts to this newsgroup, gordo roy parker is
a keyboard jockey with no real world experience whatsoever in seduction.

Krus T. Olfard

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 6:12:06 PM3/1/06
to
"RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in news:1141227681.653340.145280
@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> "Moral: Don't leave 'The Game' on the back of your toilet."
>
> If women LOVE this stuff so much, shouldn't men be PROUD of what they
> are doing?
>
>

If your rather odd 'seduction methods' really worked in the real world
shouldn't you be PROUD to post a photo of you with your arm around a real
woman?
Oh, that's right...
I should have remembered...

jjtjr

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 6:43:27 PM3/1/06
to

>"Moral:


Gordon Roy "..I wish your child dead.." Parker
tries to teach about *! MORALS !* ????????????


Right..

JJT

---- Proof of Gordon Roy Parker stating women deserve to be raped & murdered :

>>From: r____a__...@juno.com (Outfoxing The Foxes)
>>Subject: Re: Need A Piece Of Advice
>>Date: 1998/11/02
>>Message-ID: <19981102.144604.2648...@juno.com>
>>Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
>>Mail-To-News-Contact: postm...@nym.alias.net
>>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-5,10-14,23-29,32-45,47-50,55-58,60-61,74-77,
>>79-87,95-97,99-102,105-112,121-122,130-131,138-139,146-147,
>>156-157,160-161,163-164,181-182,196-197,199
>>Newsgroups: alt.romance

>>Look at the way women treat "losers" and you will see
>>why they wind up beaten, murdered, raped, robbed, disrespected, and
>>oppressed. It is because women DESERVE it. The ones who harmed me
>>should thank their lucky stars that I didn't react like a primate and
>>just dump them six feet underground. Unfortunately, premeditated murder
>>would ruin this ethical thing I have going for me, although on a primal
>>level it is quite appealing.

------------- Gordon Roy Parker on the day of 9/11 ------------------

>>"There was no significant loss of life in those towers. Not
>>a one."
>> - Gordon Roy Parker (aka Ray Gordon), September 11, 2001


>>"This attack happened in my HOMETOWN, a hometown I do not
>>live in or work in because of illegal behavior. I hope those
>>who swiped my ability to live there enjoy the message they got from GOD
>>today.........."
>> - Gordon Roy Parker (aka Ray Gordon), September 11, 2001


>>"In that building existed little more than a bunch of companies
>>which hire "office whores" and the like. I have no sympathy for
>>employment discriminators, and if someone had to die in this attack, I
>>couldn't think of a better group of people for the terrorists to pick."
>> - Gordon Roy Parker (aka Ray Gordon), September 11, 2001


>>"Now you know what it's like to see your horrors mocked the way mine
>>have been. That's not mental illness, that's a political message,
>>apparently delivered quite brilliantly."
>> - Gordon Roy Parker (aka Ray Gordon), September 11, 2001


>>"There was no significant loss of life in those towers. Their own
>>evil is what prevented me from being among the dead, and which added the
>>"Unknown Office Whore" to their numbers because god forbid some loser
>>executive would have to hire a man.Those corporations could have hired
>>me, put me to work in that building, let me live in NYC, and experience
>>all of the fun that's going on up there now."
>> - Gordon Roy Parker (aka Ray Gordon), September 11

------ Gordon Roy Parker threatening children, the sick and elderly --------

>>Subject: Re: May Lissa's Mom DIE PAINFULLY ANDROT IN HELL****
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:13:02 -0600
>>From: ray...@hotmail.com
>>Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
>>Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics

>> x-no-archive: yes

>> ****Disclaimer: I was discriminated against on the basis of
>>gender today and told point-blank that this was the reason. Having been
>>taunted by the WHOREDENS and by Lissa over this, I consider it only fair
>>to return similar sentiments. When I get a full apology from Lissa, and
>>from Dave, and his website and RayFAQ go down, I will CONSIDER changing
>>my attitude.

>> Ray, first of all STOP CURSING, KIDS READ THIS TOO!! Dave, lol!
>>HA HAHA! dang! oh shit! maaaaaan...! lol! hmmmaaaa! Ray's gonna sue you!
>>looool!!!! [laughing] shit.... hire me as your lawyer. he he ha ha ha...
>>loooll

>> <----Stop Cursing? FUCK YOU. FUCK GYMNAST WHORES TOO. They
>>know DAMN well what goes on and what harmed me and they LAUGH at it.
>>May they all do a GOMEZ on vault and have the ambulance do a GRIVICH on
>>the way to the hospital if they are going to laugh at my career road
>>blocks, sexual road blocks that they CLAIM to disapprove of...except
>>when they need a job, so then it's okay to show a little ass, as long as
>>the boss doesn't try to touch that ass. FUCK THEM. They're moral
>>GARBAGE! They know it too; that's why they can't stand hearing it; if
>>it weren't true they wouldn't care. They're good for ONE THING and ONE
>>THING only, and they know that too. If they want me to be nice to them,
>>let them undo a few years of damage and apologize for THEIR attitudes.
>>They bring this shit on themselves with their arrogance. Spoiled BRATS.

>> You think my suing Dave and Dominique is a joke? Keep laughing.
>>Please. I'd love it if you did. You want to be Dave's lawyer? Go right
>>ahead. You punks think this is playtime; you're in for an awfully rude
>>shock. I gave fair warning. Dave(and Dominique through Dave) said "Go
>>for it." I will. I'll go for every last ounce of gold that resides in
>>both their scumbag pockets.

>> See, I was being a NICE GUY about this before. I decided not to
>>be NICE anymore. I get really FUCKING PISSED OFFwhen people mock my
>>pain, enough to where I start focusing my energy on THEIR pain. Lissa's
>>pain. The pain of watching her mother die the same death my secretarial
>>career died. Yes, that death. I know what it's like to watch something
>>you love die. Watching my father die right in front of my eyes at age
>>12 wasn't as painful as watching women get sexually harassed by their
>>bosses, but that was nothing compared to the pain of seeing women mock
>>the issue, like it were okay, like they couldn't have the courage to do
>>the right thing.

>> Lissa, watch your mom fade away and think of mycareer, and then
>>think of the fact that I can revive my career. Noone will be able to
>>revive your mom. No one. She's DYING, and she's DYING slowly. Does she
>>even remember your name anymore? I don't think so.....you think Dave's
>>such a nice guy? I don't. Hedoes that page for you, Missy, Dominique,
>>and all those wonderful girls who worship him. You think he's going to
>>get away with it? He's not. If you want to see God's punishment for your
>>treatment of me, watch it in your mom.

>> My last spell went to Jaycie's knees. She still competing?
>>Nope. The next one goes to Lissa's mom. Note her condition today and
>>see how she progresses from here. Don't mess with a psychic. After
>>this one is done I'll start REALLY wishing for some Gomez action on the
>>vault, and I'll start naming names and focusing ALL of my psychic energy
>>on it.

>] From: ask...@hotmail.com
>] Subject: Re: Guess what? Ray won't talk to me!!! =)
>] Date: 1998/03/19
>] Message-ID: <6esj9d$7ak$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>] Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics
>]
>] As for being her Number One Fan, I claimed that title during our
>] blowout over Bela. What's not to love about a 13 year-old with
>] the intensity of Madonna? Couldn't help it.

--------------------

>] From: ray...@hotmail.com
>] Subject: Re: Confirm it or SHUT UP!
>] Date: 1998/04/05
>] Message-ID: <6g7jat$v9s$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>] Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics
>]
>] Whether you choose to believe it or not, the story is true.
>] Dominique Moceanu really is An American Slave. To cheer her
>] gymnastics is to root for child abuse, and that is something
>] I refuse to do. To punish her for her personality that cries
>] out that she is an abused child is also a crime in my book,
>] and that is why she has my unconditional love, and why she
>] always will, whether she loves me enough to want to marry me,
>] whether she hates me enough to want to kill me, or both.

-----------------------

>] From: sotw...@mindspring.com (Ray Gordon)
>] Subject: Re: Dominique
>] Date: 1997/12/27
>] Message-ID: <34a5602a...@news.mindspring.com>#1/1
>] X-Deja-AN: 310586820
>] References: <34a43380....@news.mindspring.com>
>] <682vli$52p$1...@newsd-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
>] X-Server-Date: 27 Dec 1997 20:11:50 GMT
>] Organization: ICN
>] Reply-To: sotwa...@mindspring.com
>] Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics
>]
>] I talked to Dominique almost every day for SIX MONTHS, and
>] talked to her many times this week alone. Also talked with
>] her for an hour on her 16th birthday. Did you?
>]
>] Have fun with your unrequited obsession. At least Dominique
>] WANTS to talk to me sometimes...

------------------

>] From: ask...@hotmail.com
>] Subject: Re: Dominique Sends A Signal
>] Date: 1998/03/20
>] Message-ID: <6eus1p$fpf$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>#1/1
>] X-Deja-AN: 336058962
>] Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
>] X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Mar 20 22:55:54 1998 GMT
>] Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics
>]
>] I love Dominique very much. Not sexually, not romantically,
>] don't even know if there's a category for it. She has more
>] class in one of her molecules than the rest of the world seems
>] to have in its collective bodies, minds, and souls.>

>]----------------

According to the biography on her official website, Dominique
Moceanu was 14 years old at the Atlanta Olympics, meaning that
in 1997 she would have been only 15. She was 16 in 1998..

>]-------------

>]] From: Nice Guys Get Screwed Over <you___will...@juno.com>
>]] Subject: Why Lawyers Are Pathetic BOYS: Sexual Harassment And
>]] Discrimination In The Legal Profession
>]] Date: 2000/03/07
>]] Message-ID: <20000307.084625.-
>]496475.20.You__...@juno.com>
>]] X-Deja-AN: 594255687
>]] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>]] Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
>]] Mail-To-News-Contact: postm...@nym.alias.net
>]] X-Juno-Att: 0
>]] Content-Type: text/plain
>]] X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,7-8,14-15,21-28
>]] MIME version: 1.0
>]] Newsgroups: alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue

>]] Sexual harassment and discrimination occur a lot in law because
>]] men hold the power, and women like the plush office environments
>]] and relatively easy work at high pay. Many legal secretaries were
>]] once gymnasts, dominatrixes, strippers, dancers, Hooter Girls,
>]] and other female sexual performers.

** You admitted (see below) you ".wished."
** a child would die, JUST to get revenge on
** her mother for her crime of ".loving you."


SO, the question is, Mr. Gordon Roy Parker:


".how old was Michelle's daughter Cierra
when you "wished" she would die, and if
your "wish" could come true, what would
you "wish" to happen to her.. ?????? ."


...Usenet records seem to note her age at 6 or 7...


..again..PLEASE..for the record... Tell us all..


Does this refresh your memory, Mr. Parker..?


>>Path: news.alt.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news
>>Cc: cave...@nni.com
>>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:58:08 -0400
>>Subject: Ray Takes FULL RESPONSIBLITY For The Michelle Mistake
>>Message-ID: <20000628.075839.-285523.10.The...@juno.com>
>>X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11
>>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,6-9,17-18,20-21,29-30,40-41,48-49,61-62,71-72,84-85,94-95,105-106,
>>115-116,126-127,133-134,154-155,164-165,178-179,187-188,196-199,201-202,206-207,212-213,
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>>From: The Seduction Library <the______seductio...@juno.com>
>>Mail-To-News-Contact: postm...@nym.alias.net
>>Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
>>Newsgroups: alt.romance
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>>Xref: news alt.romance:246369

>>WARNING: If Oedipus, Krusty or Tusky respond to this message in any way,
>>I will return to ASF immediately. If they want me off that newsgroup
>>they can stay the hell out of my threads.

>>Read up. I post this not for myself, because I don't care what people
>>think of me. I post this for my METHOD, because it's being destroyed by
>>attacks on its creator.

>>I am going to clear the record on a few things here:

>>1. I DID wish death on Michelle's daughter Cierra. I did so in an
>>attempt to snap her back to reality after she had used others' defamation
>>of me as leverage to get me to want her. Why did I "hurt" her? I DID
>>NOT TALK TO HER. That's correct: my crime with Michelle was not falling
>>back in love with her after she had fallen in love with me for four
>>months, IMing me constantly, E-mailing me constantly, BEGGING me to love
>>her the way I "loved" "Dominique" (these two are in quotes because I
>>neither loved her nor necessarily knew her).

>>2. Wishing death on someone is not a crime. The words were spoken in
>>anger, after MONTHS of provocation


Main Entry: mo·lest
Pronunciation: m&-'lest
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French molester, from
Latin molestare, from molestus burdensome, annoying; akin to
Latin moles mass

1 : to annoy, disturb, or persecute especially with hostile
intent or injurious effect

2 : to make annoying sexual advances to; especially : to
force physical and usually sexual contact on

- mo·les·ta·tion /"mO-"les-'tA-sh&n, "mä-, -l&s-/ noun
- mo·lest·er /m&-'les-t&r/ noun

You're nobody till Ray Gordon fears you..
You're nobody till grp-ie spews you a threat..
Afraid in 'ray-world', in Mommie's abode, all alone, getting old..
while his threats are all "..inexcusable failures.."
...by a Judge, we are told...

'ray-ality' still is quite insane
You'll never understand it
As long all his threats are impotent bluffs !

You're nobody till Ray Gordon fears you..
And Gordon Roy Parker fears everyone......

Paul Robinson

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 7:51:15 PM3/1/06
to

You need to consider discontinuing speaking about yourself in the third
person; people are going to think you're crazy. Not that they aren't
right in the first place, but let's not give them ideas.

Just like we were talking to Paul Robinson the other day, and I said to
him, "Do you think it's normal for people to talk about themselves in
the third person?" and he said, "No, me, I would really be worried
about someone who was doing that. Wouldn't you?" and I said, "Yeah,
me, you're right."


Paul Robinson

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 7:54:52 PM3/1/06
to
Krus T. Olfard wrote:

> "Odious" <Odi...@cox.net.nospam> wrote in news:nujNf.134742$0G.102088
> @dukeread10:
>
>
>> It is shit like this which shows
>>experienced PUAs and seducers that you are a liar with little or no
>
> real
>
>>experience.
>>
>
>
> In my opinion, based on his posts to this newsgroup, gordo roy parker is
> a keyboard jockey with no real world experience whatsoever in seduction.

Are you sure about that? He seems to have done a pretty good job in
seducing all those people who try so hard to protect gullible newbies
from him. He's seduced them fairly well, don't you think?

AlphaHot1

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Mar 1, 2006, 8:42:11 PM3/1/06
to

On 1 Mar 2006 04:34:20 -0800, "RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:

>Countergame?
>
>That's called ANTI-PLAYER, and it says a lot about the men if the only
>thing they can do once they are found out is to lie and pretend they
>never used the methods.

::::::: Gordo, you just don't want to understand, women are what they are
and you aren't going to change that anytime soon. You don't have to use the
perfect line. You don't have to do anything esoteric or special with a
hottie or lie to her for her to enjoy sharing your bed. You only have to
see past the bullshit and treat them either the way they want or need to be
treated. Once you accomplish this they will eagerly jump into bed with you.

Krus T. Olfard

unread,
Mar 1, 2006, 9:57:06 PM3/1/06
to
Paul Robinson <pa...@paul-robinson.org> wrote in
news:znrNf.28$9i....@news.uswest.net:

Well, Paul, just between the two of us, I see a great difference between
talking a woman out of her clothes and irritating everyone in sight.
While both of these are in the simplest point of view just getting
reactions from other people one of them is so easy to do that even a
village idiot could do it, the other is difficult enough to do that
people are willing to pay $$ to learn how to do it.

Odious

unread,
Mar 2, 2006, 2:30:48 AM3/2/06
to

"RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:1141230282.2...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

> AlphaNOT writes:
>
> "One of the things that gordo just can't understand"
>
> go by RAY, little girl.
>
>

Why do you want him to call you a little girl?

> " (or doesn't want to accept), is that there is such a world of
> difference between what chicks consciously say they want (or object
> to) and what they subconsciously want
> and need. and are accepting of. Is he admitting that he's not the
> genius
> that he proclaims he is? How could such a simple and base concept
> escape
> someone which such a high IQ... a world-class chess master and prodigy
> on
> almost everything? "
>

> Notice the difference: AlaphaNOT, who claims to live in one of the
> wealthiest areas of the country (where women are easily bought or led


> on by money), doesn't introduce the women who supposedly love this
> stuff, while the Voice talks to the ACTUAL women, and the responses
> there are overwhelmingly NEGATIVE.
>

If by negative you mean fucking and making out with the PUAs.


>
> "From everything I can gather, it seems gordo":
>

> I go by RAY, pussy.
>

Sure thing Gordo.


> "expects women to come right on out and state openly that they love
> pickup artists and seducers. Hell, most women still won't even openly
> admit that they love sex or even have any desire for men, even though
> we all know just how much they do."
>

> As I said before, even if what he said were correct (and as the Voice
> article and others show, he's not, the supply of hotties isn't going to
> suddenly multiply overnight.


You continue to ignore the facts I pointed out regarding the static nature
of these percentages combined with the subjective nature of what is
considered attractive from individual to individual.

For example while an average 20 something man might find Jessica Alba hot...
a 40 year old loser pedo freak who lives with his mother might think she is
too old because she's over the age of 13.


Just as card-counters overwhelmed the

> casinos to where they stopped dealing single-deck blackjack, the
> readers of The Game are taking "game" everywhere, and women are now
> realizing that it was just a bunch of shit on websites, not that the
> guys were REALLY seductive or REALLY alpha (AlphaNOT is a real MOUTH,
> not a real man). It was an ACT, an ILLUSION, one that The Game
> SHATTERED and will continue to shatter.
>

No more than learning to dance is an illusion of having rhythm.

Being unable to comprehend personal growth and change you are unable to
understand how someone can learn to be more attractive through alteration in
their behavior and their habits.


> "As pickup artists and seductionists, we deal with females and the
> inherent
> and almost completely contradictory duality of their nature; their
> "chick
> logic." We don't deny this duality of their nature. We embrace it and
> use
> it for both her benefit and ours. We deal with their chick logic, much
> or
> most of which is cause by vicious and malicious societal programming
> which
> never gave any form of just or compassionate consideration to a
> female's
> long-term ability to experience pleasure and enjoyment. Quite the
> opposite
> in fact. "
>

> Notice that he's calling women liars (by saying that they say one thing

> and do another). Not exactly respectful of women, is it?


This from the guy who says women deserved to be raped and murdered?


>I have
> observed that women are going to be the ones who hate The Game because
> it's taking away their excuse, showing them how to weed out the man
> they *claim* not to want. That was a common theme of the Voice

> article. Problem is, women value their reputations and won't tolerate


> being likened to the women in the book. They can't, because no AFC is
> going to stay her friend if she admits she's slut trash.
>

This has been a claim of ray's for a long time... basically that if women
date men he doesn't like that means they have to admit to being sluts.
However when asked why women would give a shit about his opinion of them, he
has no answer.

The idiot is so truly inexperienced he thinks he can argue a woman into
fucking him by calling her a slut if she fucks anybody else.

> 50 guys sharing the same slut doesn't make 50 players, btw.
>


Again where do you get the idea that for every one woman there are 50 PUAs?

Are these figures from your make believe planet with 100 billion people?


>
> "It's true that only a handful of females will be the ones to come
> forward
> and simply admit honestly that it is these men, the good pickup artists
> and
> seductionists, who have allowed them to do and enjoy what they really
> wanted to do all the long, but could never admit to because of the
> unrelenting scrutiny of the cruel and unruly machine of societal
> programming."
>
> Bullshit. Hot women ALWAYS have the option of doing what they want.

> The only reason they act "oppressed" is not because they cannot do it,
> but because they DO NOT WANT TO ADMIT IT.

That's what alpha just said, you retard.


> It has nothing to do with
> being labeled a slut,

"They can't, because no AFC is going to stay her friend if she admits she's
slut trash."

Ray can't even keep his bullshit straight in one post.


> but rather with the AFCs who would be wondering
> when they get their turn, or why they didn't. In the past, they liked
> the idea that they were putting one over on the clueless nice guy.
> That is no longer the case either. Being the "Secret Slut" is fun;
> being the TOWN SLUT is not. By pretending to be good girls, they get
> MONEY out of AFC men that they string along by saying that they don't
> put out for anyone. To that extent, the book exposes these women as
> frauds, literally.

Gordo is mad because he has no money and is a total loser as well as a
social retard, so no women care about his opinions of them, not even his own
mother. Ray knows he has zero value in the eyes of women, and he knows
there's nothing he can do to change that.

Gordo doesn't understand that women tell him they don't have sex or they
aren't looking for a boyfriend etc. because he is disgusting and they want
him to go away. He thinks they do that to most guys.


>
> "As pickup artist and seductionists we don't become disillusioned with
> chicks just because they have been programmed by society (against their
>
> awareness) to take responsibility for pretty much nothing, not even
> their
> decisions which lead to their own sexual pleasure and gratification. As
>
> Odious has said, it has been this way for eons. "
>
> Figures he'd speak highly of a lying sack of shit like Odiot. Oh wait,
> maybe AlphaNOT really BELIEVES it's not his money doing the work,
> because the women TELL him that....silly BOY.
>

Ray has to blame the success of others on money, so he ca then attribute his
failure to lack of money.... instead of the real cause, which is lack of
skill.


> As for the sexual pleasure and gratification, you can delude yourself
> into thinking you're better in bed than me if you need to, but that
> doesn't make it true, either.


You can't get a woman in a picture with you, so obviously you can't get one
into bed with you.


> The women can get sexual gratification
> from nice guys just as easily; if they WANT TO. The issue here is who
> gets to bat, not what they do at bat.
>


Gordo, the reason most women do not want nice guys is that they do not get
the gratification from nice guys that they do from bad boys and players and
PUAs.


> What the women take issue with is being deceived in order to get laid,
> and make no mistake, players LIE.
>

Like claiming to be a professional gymnastics coach?


> AlphaNOT is wise enough not to subject his women to any type of
> scrutiny, because the devil is always in the details.
>

Details like being caught lying about having a girlfriend, then threatening
the child of the woman who exposed your lies?

>
> "In brief, keep it entirely in the realm of possibility that you may
> give a
> chick such incredible feelings and experiences, such mind-blowing sex
> that
> she's screaming in ecstasy, and on occasion only to later hear her say,
> "I
> didn't really want to do that." Certainly she did, and you and her
> both
> know it. But just as we men must play the game in our way, they must
> also
> play it in their's. It isn't right or wrong, it's just how it works. "
>

> As I said before, AlphaNOT likes to think he's a special stud in bed;
> maybe that helps his confidence. Wealthy guys get laid rather easily,


So do poor guys... and middle class guys... pretty much any guys but you.

Hell gordo, I know midgets who have a better sex life than you.

> however, and he said he lives in one of the wealthiest enclaves in the
> US, and he's in Florida, no less, where the spring break sluts go every
> spring. Nothing new there.
>

Interesting how gordo is now trying to blame the state alpha lives in for
his success... so apparently you have to be dirt poor and living in some
backwater shithole for your success to mean anything. but eve then, I'm
sure gordo would blame that success on something, anything, other than
skills.


> The article shows what REAL WOMEN think of "gamers," especially when
> they realized the guy was COACHED.
>

Yeah they think... I can't believe I'm gonna fuck him again.

According to gordo, professional athletes have no skill because they were
coached on how to play.


> "I would highly recommend the article on which this post was based to
> the
> entry level AFC who wants to stare chick logic in the face and get a
> real
> good look at it, and to understand the inherent nature and duality of
> the
> chicks you'll be dealing with in this game. "
>
> The AFC should also look at the lengths women will go to protect their
> reputations. AlphaNOT knows this, which is why the piece of shit that
> puts out for him won't be broadcasting to the world anytime soon. He's
> just a guy with something to SELL you and a financial interest in
> discrediting this article.


Tardo, he clearly recommended the article... it is YOU he discredited.


> He's as transparent as Saran Wrap, and his
> AMOGing is laughable. He'd shit his pants before he'd ever mouth off
> like that to my face.
>

HA! This from the pussy who cried he was being threatened when someone
invited him to meet for coffee.

Gordo, NOBODY here is intimidated by you.

Anytime anybody has even suggested taking you up on the suggestion of saying
these things to your face, you cry like a bitch and run away.

But what else would you expect from a 40 year old who still needs his mommy
to take care of him?


> He's just not much of a man. Real men don't need NLP to reduce
> resistance, as they are already attractive to women, even without
> money.

No, real men don't live with their mommy at age 40.

>Oh wait, he gets money from the AFCs he teaches, doesn't he?
> Why yes, he does.
>

Unlike you Gordo... who can't find anybody stupid enough that you can teach
them anything other than how to make excuses for failure.


Odious

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Mar 2, 2006, 2:32:14 AM3/2/06
to

"Micawber" <suf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141242462.0...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...

> Can you link the document where it says he was court-ordered for a
> psych eval. I'd love to see that document.
>

Heh not only was he ordered to take the evaluation, but he was hit with like
a $1000 in sanctions for dodging the evaluation.


Odious

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Mar 2, 2006, 2:40:57 AM3/2/06
to

"AlphaHot1" <alph...@Hooya.com> wrote in message
news:t7ub02padbu0e8q32...@4ax.com...

> On 1 Mar 2006 08:24:42 -0800, "RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:
> >>
>>As I said before, even if what he said were correct (and as the Voice
>>article and others show, he's not, the supply of hotties isn't going to
>>suddenly multiply overnight.
>
> ::::::: Where do you live, in some kind of dungeon? There are more
> "hotties" out there than you are apparently aware. There are also a lot of
> 8s and 9s.

I strongly suspect that Gordo would be stopped at the door, or quickly
removed, from any bar or club even halfway close to decent. So his idea of
what attractive women are out there is probably vastly warped by his being
relegated to the type of shitty dank establishment where piss and vomit
spend the evenings fighting over which gets to be the stink of the day.

Odious

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Mar 2, 2006, 2:53:22 AM3/2/06
to

"RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:1141245041.5...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> "That is just retarded, you can break it down anyway as many times as
> you want, but it is not going to change anything. Of course when a
> woman finds out that it has been rehearsed and it comes from somewhere
> else she is going to feel stupid because she has been PLAYED, the magic
> lies in the fact that it seems spontaneous, natural, and unique. That
> doesn't mean the underlying structure is going to fall apart because
> some are aware of a certain (and keep in mind these are people's
> specific game being posted, as each person learns the ropes they change
> it and thus make it unique in their own way) strategy of eliciting
> these values. Theoretically it is like if your lame foxhunting crap
> worked and the sheep you seduced found out that you rehearsed to seduce
> it, well, that sheep won't be letting you pull on its teets anytime
> soon. Keep hunting for those foxes Elmer Fudd "
>
> Foxhunting works well enough that pivots earn $50 an hour.
>

They're called escorts, they earn a lot more than that, and they've been
around since before your mother shit you onto this earth.

Are you now claiming you invented those too?


> Lots of other methods have concepts that were co-opted from Foxhutning,

You continue to make this claim, yet you also continue to run like a pussy
each time I prove that you are LYING.

> so you're likely using my stuff without even realizing it (don't worry,
> my new stuff won't be so easily lifted). The type of asshole who would
> bash the guy whose methods he is using is the type of asshole that
> women love to fuck over, so in a way you just found out what drove you
> to this group.
>

Ray once again runs like the coward we all know him to be, when confronted
with the clear simple truth that he knows he can not refute.

I took the ideas and concepts that he claims he invented, and one by one
pointed out specific examples of those ideas and concepts being in use well
before ray's books ever came out.

And ray can't face the truth... so here it is again.

"Ray Gordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:3jwDf.6795$yE4....@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
>>>>> I'm currently "on strike" for new advice,
>>>>
>>>> As if anyone is likely to ever ask you for your 'advice'.
>>>
>>> Those who stole or used the old advice tend to want the new stuff that
>>> they need to understand the new "game."
>>
>> And who in their right minds would steal advice from Gordon?
>
> Several gurus have over the years.

Name one.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/msg/a00c5047e41ac4af?dmode=source&hl=en

___________________________________________________________________
From: r__a_y__g___ord_...@juno.com (Outfoxing The Foxes)
Subject: Re: FOX hunt Challenge?!
Date: 1998/10/15

A lot of what I write incorporates Ross's methods. I talk about
"indirect seduction" and he calls it "running patterns."
___________________________________________________________________

"<------Yes, Odious defined what a Secret Slut is, but I gave it the
NAME. And the NAME is important."
___________________________________________________________________


> Many who post here often cite methods which I designed, but which they
> "learned" through gurus who stole them from me. They include: pivot,

Ignoring the truth won't make the truth go away, ray.

I've shown the term "pivot" being used in ASF as far back as 96 in reference
to 3-way relationships.


I also cited a newsletter from Ross that was posted to ASF way back in 96
that contains a reference to Cialdini's "weapons of automatic influence."
Which include social proof and predate your shit by 3 years.


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.mindcontrol/msg/6ebd113e873e2275?d


So not only was the idea of social proof already in use , and being promoted
in ASF and the seduction community before you got here, but the term pivot
was also in use to describe the same basic idea of a guy swinging between
two girls. So you didn't even come up with the term.


You took ideas already in use in ASF and tried to take credit for inventing
them.

>reverse-timetable,

Love Tactics, McKnight/Phillips, copyright 1988, pages 40-44.

In particular, page 43:


"How do you succeed in this? By being slow to reveal your anxiousness
to see the one you want all the time. Let the person think that you
only have limited intentions of getting together again in the future
[...] As long as you keep a person believing that the relationship is
merely casual, time will be on your side."


> incorporating seduction into one's lifestyle (that's what Foxhunting is),

__________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Gordon" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: "Lifestyle" is NOT a "seduction technique"
Message-ID: <Xodof.12038$Ys4....@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:33:59 GMT


Lots of "seduction gurus" today preach the importance of LIFESTYLE in
seduction. It's a crock of shit designed to cover the fact that the advice
to improve one's "lifestyle" is in fact advice to get more MONEY with which
to BUY women.

___________________________________________________________________


Oooh my, looks like ray was attacking the idea of incorporating seduction
into your lifestyle... although when it comes to indirect seduction via
lifestyle improvments, what did gordo have to say about it...


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/msg/a00c5047e41ac4af?dmode=source&hl=en

___________________________________________________________________
From: r__a_y__g___ord_...@juno.com (Outfoxing The Foxes)
Subject: Re: FOX hunt Challenge?!
Date: 1998/10/15

A lot of what I write incorporates Ross's methods. I talk about
"indirect seduction" and he calls it "running patterns."
___________________________________________________________________


No wonder gordo hates the google archives so much.

> CUPID,


The arbitrary and inaccurate rating system that determines what YOU think
women find most attractive.

The crux of which was to be rich, buff, and good looking to improve your
chances with women, which as advice goes is about as unoriginal as you can
get. That shit was covered by Ovid thousands of years ago.


> and returning fox,

Was already in ASF and called turning the tables... renaming existing ideas
does not make them your ideas.


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/msg/5d72beacde9bc546?dmode=source&hl=en
___________________________________________________________________
From: DrSmooth <DrSm0...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: boyfriend destroyer
Date: 1996/09/10
Message-ID: <32351C...@ix.netcom.com>#1/1
x-netcom-date: Tue Sep 10 2:38:46 AM CDT 1996


Turning the Tables (which i chose to do, revenge motivated probably)


The best thing i used that works was a combination of techniques. First
stop sending the cards, flowers blah blah blah.... Pull away your
attention, suddenly works best. You see she is used to having you want
her and when she feels thats gone she will want it back. I dont care if
you have to take cold shower to do this but it is necessary. THe best
way is to have many options open which lets u do it naturally but
anyways will do.


Second, Start dating other girls, even let her know about it (no
obviously) that will drive her crazy! guaranteed...she will want you
more if you use that in combination with the dramatic decrease in
attention.....


Third after awhile of thise you will notice she will come after you (90
% of the time and if not screw her), and then you have to pounce, go for
it straight off...when you hook up the most important thing is not to
slip back into your old mode again...keep going with the same thing even
after you hook up. She will want you even more bad! trust me...


This worked well for me, i had the girl that was screwing with my mind
for a year in the sack no problem, begging for me to be her boyfriend.
No joke, (Thanks to the mighty jefferies of course)...i told her thanks
but no thanks and denied her, why the hell would u want to date a girl
like that?....


Remember what RS says, never make anything too important like your doing
now, or you will get your ass kicked!


Hope this helps..keep us updated...


DS
___________________________________________________________________


> to name several.

Yeah several ideas you took from ASF, renamed, and tried to claim were your
orginal creation.


>
> By cutting off their faucet, they have to wander in the dark, and they
> have to commit to advice that runs opposite to what they'd be stealing
> from me if i were still releasing my new ideas.

Yeah LOL what ever shall we do without Gordo's advice...

"<------Yes, Odious defined what a Secret Slut is, but I gave it the
NAME. And the NAME is important."

"A lot of what I write incorporates Ross's methods. I talk about
"indirect seduction" and he calls it "running patterns.""


Odious

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Mar 2, 2006, 2:54:57 AM3/2/06
to

"Micawber" <suf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141245494.7...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

>I am assuming delusions of grandeur have been mentioned, right?
>

As a matter of fact....


RECOGNITION
Bipolar disorder involves cycles of mania and depression.

Signs and symptoms of mania include discrete periods of:


* Increased energy, activity, restlessness, racing thoughts, and rapid
talking
* Excessive "high" or euphoric feelings
* Extreme irritability and distractibility
* Decreased need for sleep

**** Unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities and powers****

* Uncharacteristically poor judgment
* A sustained period of behavior that is different from usual
* Increased sexual drive
* Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping
medications
* Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior
* Denial that anything is wrong


Signs and symptoms of depression include discrete periods of:


* Persistent sad, anxious, or empty mood
* Feelings of hopelessness or pessimism
* Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness
* Loss of interest or pleasure in ordinary activities, including sex
* Decreased energy, a feeling of fatigue or of being "slowed down"
* Difficulty concentrating, remembering, making decisions
* Restlessness or irritability
* Sleep disturbances
* Loss of appetite and weight, or weight gain
* Chronic pain or other persistent bodily symptoms that are not caused
by physical disease
* Thoughts of death or suicide; suicide attempts


Odious

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Mar 2, 2006, 3:01:05 AM3/2/06
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"RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:1141248016....@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

> "I am assuming delusions of grandeur have been mentioned, right?"
>
> This is the same man who is amazingly humble in front of the women he
> is so clueless with.

Whereas gordo here threatens to kill the children of the women he is so
clueless with.


>As I said, a dweeb. He needs to belong among
> this group of men, which means he's not even his own man, and that's
> why women don't go for him.

Again ray, maybe a 40 year old boy who still live in his mommy's apartment
because he's incapable of supporting himself, should be commenting on
masculinity.


johnebravo836

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Mar 2, 2006, 2:23:46 PM3/2/06
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Odious wrote:

> "RayGordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
> news:1141245041.5...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>

[snip]

>>Foxhunting works well enough that pivots earn $50 an hour.
>>
>
>
> They're called escorts, they earn a lot more than that, and they've been
> around since before your mother shit you onto this earth.
>
> Are you now claiming you invented those too?

Don't be silly -- he never claimed that he invented escorts.

He invented money. Before he came along, there was only barter.

DarkKobold

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Mar 2, 2006, 3:38:03 PM3/2/06
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Ray-bashing aside...
The article has been pulled due to "inaccuracies." Would anyone like
to say a real comment on how this stuff affects game? How it affects
training? I know Ray has been saying this for years... Paranoia, etc.
... But what if now, he is finally right?

I know, canned stuff isn't the coupe-de-gra that it used to be. But,
hell, negs? You could easily get called out for a neg.

Micawber

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Mar 2, 2006, 3:42:26 PM3/2/06
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Yeah, I am actually embarassed for you, Odious. That is like not
noticing ray's signature on the Declaration of Indepedence (Hint: It is
the only one bigger than John Hancock's).

Krus T. Olfard

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Mar 2, 2006, 8:42:40 PM3/2/06
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"DarkKobold" <darkk...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1141331883....@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:

>
> I know, canned stuff isn't the coupe-de-gra that it used to be. But,
> hell, negs? You could easily get called out for a neg.
>
>

I'm not a fan of negs and in general do not use them but knowing how to
use them properly makes getting 'called out' fairly unlikely.

SeductionReport.com

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Mar 2, 2006, 11:28:04 PM3/2/06
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Neil Strauss did not quit the game. He is still pretty much in it:
http://www.neilstrauss.com/

Written by SeductionReport: http://www.seductionreport.com

AlphaHot1

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Mar 2, 2006, 11:51:14 PM3/2/06
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On 2 Mar 2006 12:38:03 -0800, "DarkKobold" <darkk...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Ray-bashing aside...
> The article has been pulled due to "inaccuracies." Would anyone like
>to say a real comment on how this stuff affects game? How it affects
>training? I know Ray has been saying this for years... Paranoia, etc.
>... But what if now, he is finally right?

::::::: What you have to understand is that if you are only going by a
strict rule-book that can easily be learned by anyone who should happen to
pick it up and read a copy, then yes, you can get "busted." I ask students
in my course: what are the 3 most important words in seduction?
FLEXIBILITY, FLEXIBILITY, FLEXIBILITY!

This means that you have to develop your IMAGINATION. A PUA/Seductionist
with a good imagination, and a complete and thorough understanding of
female game/psychology and chick logic will ALWAYS remain well in the game,
getting what he wants. If you, like many people, think you will just pick
up a copy of 'The Game' and score chicks forever using memorized stuff, I
can already tell you it just ain't gonna happen, at least not for long.

It's far better to get an excellent, fundamental understanding of female
psychology and chick logic and THEN go from there. If you understand
exactly HOW chicks think and WHY they do what they do, you will always be
able to come up with something, right on the spot, which will seduce them.
Doesn't that just make sense?

>I know, canned stuff isn't the coupe-de-gra that it used to be. But,
>hell, negs? You could easily get called out for a neg.

::::::: How in hell are you going to get called out for a neg? Are you
aware that there are potentially a thousand and one negs you could use? If
you use a neg that has been printed in a book and already used by 5 million
other guys, then yes it's possible. IMAGINATION and FLEXIBILITY, that's the
key.

Your forgetting a basic axiom of this whole game: chicks WANT to be
seduced. They want to be "picked up," and yes, they even want to be fucked.
Some guys unfortunately have a VERY hard time getting this simple fact
through their head. Do you think they're going to stop hooking up with guys
and stop fucking just because of the printing of this book? Not on your
life, and you know it. Are they going to suddenly start going for the
flower and chocolate toting fuckers? No, because they're not biologically
wired to. No matter how much their conscious, "logical" brain tells them
they should be going for the nice guy, those damn, deep inner subconscious
needs and wiring will always get in the way and automatically attract them
to those men who can activate those subconscious circuits, just like
clockwork. It really is that basic. As DeAngelo says, attraction will "not
be a choice" for them, you can count on it.

Putting this to you as simply as I can, chicks have "no choice" but to
fuck. They always have, are now, and always will. You keep yourself in the
running by practicing and understanding all the things discussed above.


Caffeine

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Mar 8, 2006, 8:37:13 AM3/8/06