Those with sources inside and our please investigate. Could be Big!!
anonoldguard
night and there is a real buzz among former Scientologists (small
group that we are) that is attending. I have never posted before or
protested against CoS for over the 15 years that I have been out but
my wife will not be here tomorrow and Thursday if that gives you an
idea of what my feelings are. Anyways here is what is going around
and I wanted to pass it along for those of you with connection inside
to see if it is true, potentially true or fantasy.
Apparently, the announcement from Jason Beghe that Marty Rathbun is
alive has caused some serious problems. DM has informed everyone that
would care/need to know that he is dead. I think I read once that
Jenna Miscavige wrote "god rest his soul" or something to that
effect. Anyways here are the three big things that I have heard at
the bar.
1)Warren McShane has blown from Gold, and no-one knows where he is.
2)Arnie Lerma has tracked down Pat Broeker and he is getting ready to
make a splash.
3)DM has wind of the above and has become more terrible than anyone
has seen.
I am not sure if this is true or if fun talk over drinks. I got the
feeling it was serious. Who ever can look into this, please do and
let us know. God help those at Gold who must be feeling the wrath
like never before.
I am going back to my family.
Quaoar
Given that word on the street, with purported documentation, showed that
Marty Rathbun was DEAD, posted on ARS for the last two or three years,
word that Rathbun is ALIVE is major news. If true, this puts ARS "proof"
of his death, and every other "proof" in question.
This is not good, Monica, for your hallowed critic theory. As a
hallowed critic, you should have known.
Now, anonoldguard, your 1.) McShane has escaped, is major news, if true.
Your 2.) Pat Broeker has been found, is likely terminal for Davie, if true.
Your 3.) Davie is bonkers, is expected if either 1.) or 2.) are true.
Go back to your family and enjoy your life. You should prepare a bunker
in the event that Davie goes nuclear and explodes.
Q
Hartley Patterson
> 1)Warren McShane has blown from Gold, and no-one knows where he is.
I'll score that possible. Each of the Loyal Officers who leaves will cause
others to think of doing so.
> 2)Arnie Lerma has tracked down Pat Broeker and he is getting ready to
> make a splash.
That would indeed terrify DM, though I think he'd be wrong to worry. His
fanatic culties will believe anything he tells them, it's just that they
won't lift a finger to save him from a coup.
--
Hartley Patterson
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/index.htm
http://news-from-bree.blogspot.com
Tom Newton
<f0b67577-fbc7-4b1a...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.co
m> anonoldguard <anonol...@gmail.com> wrote:
Odds are this post is yet another fiction piece from an
'Anonymous' member.
I can't see anyone but an 'Anonymous' member composing a post
like that. You have to be really dedicated to hating scientology
and have no other life to posess the information it would take
to write this piece. And pick a name and email address right
out of 'Anonymous' cultspeak.
These creeps just love to play games like this. They are really
just rotten little children scrawling nasty things about others
on the stalls of public school bathrooms.
And then declining to sign them.
Tom
--
The Truth will set you free:
http://www.sethcenter.com
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> - Show quoted text -
There was and still is no evidence that Marty is dead. Matter of fact,
today we saw evidebnce of him being alive. In the past, every single
death record of a Mark Rathbun was researched and just turned out to
be another Mark Rathbun not of our own. Look at the links and pic
comparison. I am pretty certain it's him
http://wethepeoplenews.ccppc.org/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=346&Itemid=48
http://wethepeoplenews.ccppc.org/mambo/images/stories/standard/MRathbunMug-150.jpg
http://www.scientology.org/scnnews/IMG/Rathbun.jpg
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/3d8104472b682c36?hl=en
Tom Newton
If you'll look in the headers of the original post that I am responding
to below, you'll see his/her posting IP.
host 66.208.165.251
66-208-165-251.arpa.kmcmail.net.
Here's most of the whois report on kmcmail.net:
Domain name: kmcmail.net
Registrant Contact:
KMC Telecom
NA NA
1755 North Brown Road
Lawrenceville, GA 30043
US
Administrative Contact:
NA
KMC Telecom (n...@vpntranet.com)
+1.6789856391
Fax: 678-985-6574
1755 North Brown Road
Lawrenceville, GA 30043
US
Technical Contact:
NA
KMC Hostmaster (hostm...@KMCMAIL.NET)
+1.4236648600
KMC Telecom
1775 North Brown Rd
Lawrenceville, GA 30043
US
How is that someone who is supposedly living in Toledo, Ohio is
using an ISP in Laurenceville, Georgia?
This post is indeed a complete fiction.
'Anonymous' lies.
These are really nasty people.
Nazis -- Jews
'Anonymous' -- Scientologists
KKK -- Blacks
Tom
Alexia Death
/me is just driving Tommyboy batty... nm me.
Alexia Death
Oh, and the ISP location of a web-based mail service provider is
sooooo much proof. Retard.
barb
> anonol...@gmail.com:
>
>> 1)Warren McShane has blown from Gold, and no-one knows where he is.
>
> I'll score that possible. Each of the Loyal Officers who leaves will cause
> others to think of doing so.
>
>> 2)Arnie Lerma has tracked down Pat Broeker and he is getting ready to
>> make a splash.
>
> That would indeed terrify DM, though I think he'd be wrong to worry. His
> fanatic culties will believe anything he tells them, it's just that they
> won't lift a finger to save him from a coup.
>
the wheezing dwarf's wrath. Which makes life even more unpleasant, and
blowing more of a real alternative.
--
Barb "That's Captain Barbossa to you!"
Chaplain, ARSCC (wdne)
It's Poodlin' Time!
"I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist
so long as we don't step over the line. When religious worship and
belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and
the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
appropriate."
--Robert Goff
Professor Emeritus, UCSC
Fredric L. Rice
>1)Warren McShane has blown from Gold, and no-one knows where he is.
Someone should call the crime office of Kendrick and Moxon and find
out whether they still have Gambino Mafia crime boss Eliot Abelson
on a short leash or whether he's dead.
---
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=71238
Scientology smacked down for trying to stop free speech
Tom Newton
<15808608-5914-4ab8...@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com
> Alexia Death <alexi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 11, 4:10 am, anonoldguard <anonoldgu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I am here in Toledo,
Meaning he surely isn't.
>> getting ready for my daughter's wedding Thursday night
Bet he has no daughter.
>> and there is a real buzz among former Scientologists (small
>> group that we are)
Of course. Very few people leave the Church of Scientology once
they've gotten to know it.
>> that is attending.
So his suposed daughter is supposedly inviting former
Scientologists to her wedding?
>> I have never posted before
I'll bet you post here every day under different names and
using various ISPs.
You are obviously quite comfortable with the Usenet and
and know how to use gmail and googlegroups.
>> or protested against CoS for over the 15 years that I have
>> been out
Bet you've never been in the Church of Scientology.
>> but my wife will not be here tomorrow and Thursday if that
>> gives you an idea of what my feelings are.
Bet you don't have a wife.
>> Anyways here is what is going around and I wanted to pass it
>> along for those of you with connection inside to see if it is
>> true, potentially true or fantasy.
>>
>> Apparently, the announcement from Jason Beghe that Marty
>> Rathbun is alive has caused some serious problems. DM has
>> informed everyone that would care/need to know that he is
>> dead. I think I read once that Jenna Miscavige wrote "god rest
>> his soul" or something to that effect. Anyways here are the
>> three big things that I have heard at the bar.
>>
>> 1)Warren McShane has blown from Gold, and no-one knows where
>> he is. 2)Arnie Lerma has tracked down Pat Broeker and he is
>> getting ready to make a splash. 3)DM has wind of the above and
>> has become more terrible than anyone has seen.
>>
>> I am not sure if this is true or if fun talk over drinks. I
>> got the feeling it was serious. Who ever can look into this,
>> please do and let us know. God help those at Gold who must be
>> feeling the wrath like never before.
>>
>> I am going back to my family.
All bullshit. Pure fiction from one of the regulars here.
'Anonymous' lies.
All the time.
And it doesn't bother them a bit.
They make the Church of Scientology look like a haven for saints
by comparison.
>
> /me is just driving Tommyboy batty... nm me.
You and your punk friends couldn't drive me batty if your
lives depended on it.
The truth is that I drive _you_ batty.
Bigots just hate anyone who questions their hate propaganda and
their character.
And what they hate most is that they can't drive me away with
their cowardly, backstabbing, lying bitch mouths.
Kat
the photos from before *chuckles* http://www.lermanet.com/PhotoLIES.htm
this gave me quite a chuckle when I saw it the first time a few years
ago. If 2 is true, we should have some interesting reads in the near
future.
Askren
any answers back. Unfortunately, most of the info-sources we have here
don't have their hands dipped into Church Int'l affairs, but I'm sure
that kind of news would have made rounds by now.
Piltdown Man
Hartley Patterson <hpt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote...
<snip>
> > 2)Arnie Lerma has tracked down Pat Broeker and he is getting ready
> > to make a splash.
>
> That would indeed terrify DM, though I think he'd be wrong to worry.
> His fanatic culties will believe anything he tells them, it's just
> that they won't lift a finger to save him from a coup.
I agree. Pat Broeker speaking out could be fascinating for anyone with
an interest in CoS history, and that murky period of Hubbard's last
years in seclusion, his death, and the Miscavige takeover. But how many
people currently inside CoS still know who Pat Broeker was, let alone
would care about what he has to say?
eddieVroom
> Hartley Patterson wrote:
>> anonol...@gmail.com:
>>
>>> 1)Warren McShane has blown from Gold, and no-one knows where he is.
>>
>> I'll score that possible. Each of the Loyal Officers who leaves will
>> cause others to think of doing so.
>>
>>> 2)Arnie Lerma has tracked down Pat Broeker and he is getting ready to
>>> make a splash.
>>
>> That would indeed terrify DM, though I think he'd be wrong to worry.
>> His fanatic culties will believe anything he tells them, it's just
>> that they won't lift a finger to save him from a coup.
Weren't DM and Pat Broeker the people around LRH when he died with a
fresh assload of Vistaril?
--
"FEEL the Finger"...
- L. Ron Hubbard, Class VIII Lectures, 1968
the Tortured Spark - a Light in the Dark
the Mystical RevvedErrand Doktor eddieVroom
Motor Lodge #13013
He only comes out when I drink my Djinn
Out_Of_The_Dark
<piltd...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
> Hartley Patterson <hptt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote...
Your statement shows how little you know. Pat Broeker holds the key to
the whole scam. IF, and that's an big IF Broeker ever talks, the game
will surely be over for Miscavige.I don't think he'll talk unless he
has the government backing him in disclosing what he knows under civil
and criminal immunity. I believe he's gagged and received a load of
money under the guise of it being called an inheritance but as I have
come to find out in my research for Narconon victims, a gag agreement
can be lawfully waived if it was paid in part or full to cover up
criminal activities which are being silenced by because of it.
Those gags are as valid as those illegal sea org and staff contract
debts.
Mary
Scientology is a cu*t
9364-7ac...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
> 2)Arnie Lerma has tracked down Pat Broeker and he is getting ready to
> make a splash.
Thanks for letting the cat out of the bag >:(
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Hartley Patterson
> Your statement shows how little you know. Pat Broeker holds the key to
> the whole scam.
They are believers, not rational people. No amount of evidence can destroy
belief, particularly in a cult where the entire worldview has become
separated from reality.
The believers will only give up when their own personal lives are hit so
hard by reality that they crack - their own auditor blows, their local Org
closes.
l.l.lipshitz
<xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote in
<562233d3-52e7-40f9...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>:
| On Jun 11, 6:42 pm, "Piltdown Man"
| <piltd...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
[...]
| > I agree. Pat Broeker speaking out could be fascinating for anyone with
| > an interest in CoS history, and that murky period of Hubbard's last
| > years in seclusion, his death, and the Miscavige takeover. But how many
| > people currently inside CoS still know who Pat Broeker was, let alone
| > would care about what he has to say?
|
| Your statement shows how little you know.
??
|Pat Broeker holds the key to
| the whole scam. IF, and that's an big IF Broeker ever talks, the game
| will surely be over for Miscavige.I don't think he'll talk unless he
| has the government backing him in disclosing what he knows under civil
| and criminal immunity. I believe he's gagged and received a load of
| money under the guise of it being called an inheritance but as I have
i was under the impression that broeker went into
hiding after the miscavige coup and was not a party
in any legal action where a gag order would have been
applied. am i misremembering?
| come to find out in my research for Narconon victims, a gag agreement
| can be lawfully waived if it was paid in part or full to cover up
| criminal activities which are being silenced by because of it.
|
| Those gags are as valid as those illegal sea org and staff contract
| debts.
--
-elle
--------=[ l.l.lipshitz * elkube(at)lycos(dot)com ]=--------
those are my principles and if you don't
like them...well, i have others. -gm
Hartley Patterson
> i was under the impression that broeker went into
> hiding after the miscavige coup and was not a party
> in any legal action where a gag order would have been
> applied. am i misremembering?
DM had him appear at the official announcement of Ron's departure, as
everyone knew that he had been with Ron and he was trusted. We have the
tape of that meeting. It was I assume shortly afterwards that DM
disappeared him and his wife with the same kind of threats that he made to
Mary Sue when he put her under house arrest.
Piltdown Man
Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote...
> On Jun 11, 6:42 pm, "Piltdown Man"
> <piltd...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
<snip>
>> I agree. Pat Broeker speaking out could be fascinating for anyone with
>> an interest in CoS history, and that murky period of Hubbard's last
>> years in seclusion, his death, and the Miscavige takeover. But how many
>> people currently inside CoS still know who Pat Broeker was, let alone
>> would care about what he has to say?
>
> Your statement shows how little you know. Pat Broeker holds the key to
> the whole scam.
Well, if you know so much, then please tell us what that "key" is.
> IF, and that's an big IF Broeker ever talks, the game
> will surely be over for Miscavige.
Really? What you *seem* to be suggesting in the rest of your usual vague
innuendo is that Pat Broeker has hard evidence for crimes committed by
David Miscavige around the time of Hubbard's death, crimes he hasn't
reported since he witnessed them, and on which the statute of limitations
hasn't run out after 22 years. That's the only thing I can think of that
Pat Broeker could possibly come forward with that could have any direct
impact on Miscavige in 2008. Anything else he could come up with would only
be of interest to people who are interested in the real history of CoS --
which excludes the whole current membership.
So to use a deliberately awful mixed metaphor: tell us, what smoking gun do
you think Pat Broeker has been sitting on for these past 22 years?
Out_Of_The_Dark
<piltd...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
> Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote...
How little you know of the history of Scientology and Pat Broeker's
place in it. I'm not going to post what I know and what others know
and what the evidence is of things that could destroy David
Miscavige's leadership because the time is not right for that but even
if it were, I would not do it just to fill in your blanks.
You have a way with words that suggests you enjoy opposition for the
sake of being oppositional. There is treatment for this disorder and I
suggest you look into availing yourself of it.
OhioXenu
wrote:
Does anyone know if this tape is available to the public at large?
All I have been able to find are the 4 minute clips on google video.
I am very interested in being able to see this recording of one of the
formative moments in the growth of Miscavige's monster.
CX
__
SP V - Marcab Confederacy Mobile Mess Unit, 4th (or 5th) Marcabian
Interstellar Invasion Force
http://www.youtube.com/ChefXenu - Bachelor pad cooking meets
$cientology
http://www.youtube.com/OhioXenu - Protest footage and enturbulation
R. Hill
> On Jun 12, 11:45 am, Hartley Patterson <hptt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> elk...@seesig.info:
>>
>>> i was under the impression that broeker went into
>>> hiding after the miscavige coup and was not a party
>>> in any legal action where a gag order would have been
>>> applied. am i misremembering?
>> DM had him appear at the official announcement of Ron's departure, as
>> everyone knew that he had been with Ron and he was trusted. We have the
>> tape of that meeting. It was I assume shortly afterwards that DM
>> disappeared him and his wife with the same kind of threats that he made to
>> Mary Sue when he put her under house arrest.
>>
>> --
>> Hartley Pattersonhttp://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/index.htmhttp://news-from-bree.blogspot.com
>
> Does anyone know if this tape is available to the public at large?
> All I have been able to find are the 4 minute clips on google video.
> I am very interested in being able to see this recording of one of the
> formative moments in the growth of Miscavige's monster.
>
> CX
Part I-V:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hPeTvghhd_M
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=RXVA4UyqEUs
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=NwtvEzTC_Vg
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=q3cHF3onbM8
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=OPYQukP5U2c
--
Ray.
IRS 1993 documents tree
http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/corporate/irs/
Eldon
<piltd...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
> Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote...
Jesse Prince said several years ago that:
1. Pat's wife, Annie Broeker had been mentally "broken" on the RPF. I
don't doubt that one bit.
2. Pat Broeker had called Jesse just to say hello from an unknown
location. I don't doubt that either.
You seem to think Scientology can't brainwash, intimidate and
otherwise control people, right? You've never been immersed in
Scientology, right?
If so, you're wrong. It's scary as shit, and if you don't get that,
ask someone who has experienced it firsthand. Then you might stop
sounding like such a dilettante.
Chef Xenu
> OhioXenu wrote:
> > On Jun 12, 11:45 am, Hartley Patterson <hptt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >> elk...@seesig.info:
>
> >>> i was under the impression that broeker went into
> >>> hiding after the miscavige coup and was not a party
> >>> in any legal action where a gag order would have been
> >>> applied. am i misremembering?
> >> DM had him appear at the official announcement of Ron's departure, as
> >> everyone knew that he had been with Ron and he was trusted. We have the
> >> tape of that meeting. It was I assume shortly afterwards that DM
> >> disappeared him and his wife with the same kind of threats that he made to
> >> Mary Sue when he put her under house arrest.
>
> >> --
>
> > Does anyone know if this tape is available to the public at large?
> > All I have been able to find are the 4 minute clips on google video.
> > I am very interested in being able to see this recording of one of the
> > formative moments in the growth of Miscavige's monster.
>
> > CX
>
Thanks, the fifth of these adds a minute or two to what is available
on google video, but these are basically the same short clips with
huge gaps of missing material.
Does anyone know if a recording of this event in it's entirety is
available for public consumption?
PS: my apologies to Tom N for accidentally posting the OP with the
wrong account, I'm sure he will take this as evidence that I am
actually operating 89% of the posters on this newsgroup. Hope it
doesn't enturbulate ya too badly, buddy. I really do try to limit
myself to one account for usenet posts, but forgot to log out after
posting to youtube last night.
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you Eldon.
Piltdown Man
Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote...
<snip>
> I'm not going to post what I know and what others know
Now why doesn't that surprise me.
> and what the evidence is of things that could destroy David
> Miscavige's leadership because the time is not right for that
Oh dear. "The time is not right". You couldn't just get a bit more
stereotypically kooky, could you?
> You have a way with words that suggests you enjoy opposition for the
> sake of being oppositional. There is treatment for this disorder and I
> suggest you look into availing yourself of it.
Damn! Those infallible long-distance Usenet psychiatrists strike again!
Piltdown Man
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote...
<snip>
> You seem to think Scientology can't brainwash, intimidate and
> otherwise control people, right? You've never been immersed in
> Scientology, right?
What a strange non sequitur. I'm merely questioning how anything Pat
Broeker might have to say about his activities in Scientology before and
shortly after Hubbard's death, and before the Miscavige takeover, could
possibly affect Scientology, Inc. as it exists in 2008, owned and operated
by David Miscavige (just as it was owned and operated by Lafayette R.
Hubbard when Broeker was helping him to run it).
> If so, you're wrong. It's scary as shit, and if you don't get that,
> ask someone who has experienced it firsthand. Then you might stop
> sounding like such a dilettante.
Right. Nobody has the right to say anything about crazy cults, except
people who've been crazy culties themselves. And the longer they were crazy
culties, the more they know, and the more they're right in whatever they
have to say about the crazy cults they were a part of.
Out_Of_The_Dark
<piltd...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
> Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote...
It's really too bad you can't stop yourself. Keep it up and in the end
your posting history will prove itself to have not been of help to
anything but CoS's cause, no matter how well intentioned it may have
been at the start.
realpch
>
> - Show quoted text -
You know, after reading here for years, one has seen these Big Splash
things come and go. Not to mention the "time is not right" phenomena.
Me, I just sorta glance over them with a somewhat jaundiced eye.
Peach
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> - Show quoted text -
I understand that you're burned out on promises, but remember, I never
made any promises about anything and my post was not some sort of
announcement of such. It was just a statement about other known facts
that anyone can know if they seek them.
What I posted had nothing to do with any 'Big Splash' thing, and as
far as the timing not being right to post here what is known by myself
and others about Broeker, well, I'm not going to risk the efforts of
myself and of others to try and take down this cult just to satisfy a
jaded eye or a hostile dare.
realpch
>
> - Show quoted text -
I wouldn't *dream* of asking you to inconvenience yourself to satisfy
my jaded eye!
: D
Peach
Jommy Cross
<xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote in msg
<50140ab5-d932-47fe...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
>On Jun 16, 2:09=A0am, "Piltdown Man"
><piltd...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
>> Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilentolog...@yahoo.com> wrote...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > I'm not going to post what I know and what others know
>>
>> Now why doesn't that surprise me.
>>
>> > and what the evidence is of things that could destroy David
>> > Miscavige's leadership because the time is not right for that
>>
>> Oh dear. "The time is not right". You couldn't just get a bit more
>> stereotypically kooky, could you?
>>
>> > You have a way with words that suggests you enjoy opposition for the
>> > sake of being oppositional. There is treatment for this disorder and I=
>> > suggest you look into availing yourself of it.
>>
>> Damn! Those infallible long-distance Usenet psychiatrists strike again!
>
>It's really too bad you can't stop yourself. Keep it up=20
Keep what up? Rational inquiry? I don't always agree with the Fictional
Hominid, but I admire his ability to distinguish between opinions and facts=
with evidence.
An ability you've lacked in the past and probably will again.=20
>and in the end
>your posting history will prove itself to have not been of help to
>anything but CoS's cause, no matter how well intentioned it may have
>been at the start.
I really can't see rational inquiry helping Co$' cause now, or "in the
end".=20
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
Piltdown Man
Out_Of_The_Dark <xscilen...@yahoo.com> wrote...
<snip>
>>> You have a way with words that suggests you enjoy opposition for the
>>> sake of being oppositional. There is treatment for this disorder and I
>>> suggest you look into availing yourself of it.
>>
>> Damn! Those infallible long-distance Usenet psychiatrists strike again!
>
> It's really too bad you can't stop yourself. Keep it up and in the end
> your posting history will prove itself to have not been of help to
> anything but CoS's cause, no matter how well intentioned it may have
> been at the start.
Your long-distance mind-reading skills continue to astound me. You know
what my intentions were, "at the start", and they were good, but I've
apparently gone astray since then. I didn't even know I ever had any
intentions. And you cannot only read my mind, retroactively, but you can
predict my future, and I will be proven to have "helped CoS's cause". Well,
that's something to look forward to at least, since after all these years
of having Scientology-watching as a hobby, I've never really been able to
figure out what their "cause" is. I know Hubbard's cause was making money
for himself, and getting a buzz out of the power he wielded over his small
band of followers. What was your cause, during the time you were one of
those followers?
Yet despite these awesome skills, no doubt honed to perfection by lots of
Scientology training, you cannot answer a very simple factual question:
just what kind of information could it be that Pat Broeker, or anyone else
actively involved in the events surrounding Hubbard's death and the
subsequent Miscavige takeover, could possibly reveal, 22 years after the
facts, that would have any direct impact on the current corporate structure
of CoS, or Miscavige's de-facto ownership of that corporation? I'm not even
asking for specifics, just some explanation of what kind of information
we would be, hypothetically, talking about.
Piltdown Man
realpch <rea...@aol.com> wrote...
> You know, after reading here for years, one has seen these Big Splash
> things come and go. Not to mention the "time is not right" phenomena.
> Me, I just sorta glance over them with a somewhat jaundiced eye.
If I had a cent for every time I'd read someone in ARS breathlessly
announcing that there is a major, major revelation coming, Real Soon Now!,
that will blow the lid off the whole Scientology scam (except that The Time
Is Not Right Yet!), I'd have a reasonably-sized stack of cents by now.
But it's not an ARS, or Scientology, or anti-Scientology thing. It's a
standard part of a general kook/crank/whatever you like to call
it pattern. They always like to pretend they have access to secret
knowledge, "for which the world is not yet prepared", as Dr. Watson put it
when he explained why he couldn't reveal anything about the no doubt
shocking story of the Giant Rat of Sumatra.
Now that I've mentioned that, I suddenly realize it would make a good ARS
expression. Instead of saying "I don't believe you, you're just making it
up", one could say: "I smell a Giant Rat of Sumatra".
gandow
> But it's not an ARS, or Scientology, or anti-Scientology thing. It's a
> standard part of a general kook/crank/whatever you like to call
> it pattern. They always like to pretend they have access to secret
> knowledge, "for which the world is not yet prepared", as Dr. Watson put it
> when he explained why he couldn't reveal anything about the no doubt
> shocking story of the Giant Rat of Sumatra.
>
> Now that I've mentioned that, I suddenly realize it would make a good ARS
> expression. Instead of saying "I don't believe you, you're just making it
> up", one could say: "I smell a Giant Rat of Sumatra".
I see, You are an expert.
Why then would You not just say: "I smell a piltdown man" ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man
TG
>
>
henri
<pilt...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
>realpch <rea...@aol.com> wrote...
It's the natural human desire to have a simple solution to a complex
problem. I call it the Silver Bullet Syndrome. Periodically, for as
long as I've been watching the scene, someone will pop up with wild
tales and a great impact that is going to happen Real Soon Now. Some
people have been doing it for years.
It's somewhat akin to the "smoking gun" phenomenon you see in
conspiracy kook circles. There are people who spend years poring
through voluminous amounts of garbage thinking one day, they're going
to find the one "smoking gun" document that proves everything and
takes down the Conspiracy. Every now and then, they come up with
something they think is The One. The public rarely agrees, and then
the cycle repeats itself.
It's not the desire for an easy solution that is the problem, though
it is a root cause. It's the willingness to believe utter nonsense
which promises to provide a solution. The bigger and more
all-encompassing the solution is, the more appealing it seems. Some
people seem willing to buy one bogus solution after another.
Who today remembers Robert Cipriano, "Dorian," Lavenda Neverenda van
Schaick, or any number of other people who were going to bring down
the cult any day now? Not many, although there is a sadly large
number of people who should remember those previous fiascos and
despite that, tout the latest new nonsense.
FTSOH
In the Newsgroup(s): alt.religion.scientology
With the Message-ID: <041l54lnfog3lkpfs...@4ax.com>
And the Organization Header: The Reality-Based Community.
The famous author: henri <he...@nowhere.com>.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Those with sources inside and our please
investigate. Could be Big!!:
Who of use that was here then can forget? Non I'd say, and those of us
who do remember better stop thinking of any fast solution to this crime
cult problem.
I for one never bought into any of it back then, and I will not buy into
a fast solution now either.
henri
<pilt...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
[Raving idiocy from Out_of_Her_Mind snipped]
>Yet despite these awesome skills, no doubt honed to perfection by lots of
>Scientology training, you cannot answer a very simple factual question:
>just what kind of information could it be that Pat Broeker, or anyone else
>actively involved in the events surrounding Hubbard's death and the
>subsequent Miscavige takeover, could possibly reveal, 22 years after the
>facts, that would have any direct impact on the current corporate structure
>of CoS, or Miscavige's de-facto ownership of that corporation? I'm not even
>asking for specifics, just some explanation of what kind of information
>we would be, hypothetically, talking about.
Basically, the idea is there's a Silver Bullet here. Fraud at the
inception of the copyright and trademark transfers that established
the current corporate structure of Scientology would invalidate the
entire transfer, establish massive crimes by David Miscavige, Norman
Starkey, and pretty much everyone else, and Scientology's corporate
structure would vanish like the magic castle of a slain evil wizard.
This isn't to dismiss the underlying factual issues. It's entirely
possible there were shenanigans in the drafting of the final will
documents. There are a number of reasons to believe that the purpose
of the current corporate structure is to insulate Scientology from the
legal liability that its ongoing illegal activities creates. There is
adequate factual basis to support a reasonable belief that the trust
documents and will were created in an atmosphere pervaded by fraud.
None of this, however, would invalidate the will or give critics any
particularly useful weapon against Scientology. None of us have any
standing to challenge the will. The only remotely plausible argument,
perhaps by someone in litigation with RTC about copyrights, is that
RTC only is in a position to sue over the copyrights because of the
trademark and copyright assignments in these allegedly fraudulent
instruments, therefore, the person moving to attack them has standing
because they are harmed by the litigation. None of this has any
proximate relation, however, to the rights of the estate or its
beneficiaries. If L. Ron Hubbard were alive and well, he would no
doubt engage in similar litigation. Graham Berry's attempts, during
the FACTnet litigation, to raise similar issues met with no success,
and would likely not have met with success even had he had a lot more
evidence or even proof of the fraudulent nature of the estate
proceedings.
The only people likely to have standing to sue are those who would
have been favored in the prior state of affairs, i.e. the
beneficiaries of his prior will who were disadvantaged by the new
will. This would probably includes corporate entities, though none of
the representatives of the non-defunct entities would be very likely
to act in this way. Other people who would be included would be
people with claims against the estate of L. Ron Hubbard itself.
A less likely alternative would be something on the order of the
litigation against Pacifica's Governing Board, i.e. by those who would
benefit from the corporation's activities against its directors,
alleging that they are violating the law and the corporate bylaws and
should be replaced somehow.
Another thing that presumably people wish would happen if there were
absolute proof the Hubbard estate had been defrauded would be that
Scientologists would resign in outrage en masse, horrified by the
revealed crimes. I think from what we know of Scientology cultists
and their seemingly endless willingness to disregard evidence of
criminality that this particular outcome can be disposed of without
too much thought.
Finally, it might inspire a mass uprising against David Miscavige
himself. What's the best possible outcome of this? If anything,
replacing David Miscavige with another more competent Scientologist
would be GOOD for Scientology. But even so, why would one new thing
trigger a palace revolt when years of constant abuse hasn't?
Scientologists near Miscavige have had every reason to revolt for
decades and haven't done so. Virtually every report by escapees who
have dealt with Miscavige confirms that he is a vicious, abusive
tyrant, physically and emotionally abusive. However, the people near
him are so cowed that even as he swears at them, spits in their face,
and beats them, they sit there and take it. We're to believe that one
more fact about him is going to knock down the whole house of cards.
It's just more magical thinking. But as long as it's kept "secret,"
even among a gaggle of imbeciles riddled with OSA, and security loose
enough even a certifiable lunatic like Out_of_Her_Mind is privy to it,
the Silver Bullet can give the elect a feeling that they hold the
secret that will save the world from the evil cult, just like
Scientologists have the secret tech that will save the world from the
evil psychs. Just like Scientologists, they can disregard the long
history of similar grandiose pronouncements followed by a big fizzle.
If there has been one universal truth in the history of Scientology
criticism, it is that Any Day Now announcements are bullshit.
"I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you!" Well, maybe not,
but if they told you, then their bullshit claims would have to
withstand the scrutiny of daylight, and as in every similar case in
the past, would generally vanish like Brigadoon.
Piltdown Man
henri <he...@nowhere.com> wrote...
<snipped for length>
Thanks for an excellent summary of the legal situation, which tallies
completely with the view I've built up of it as a non-American non-lawyer.
I cut to this:
> If anything, replacing David Miscavige with another more competent
> Scientologist would be GOOD for Scientology.
It's impossible not to be reminded of the idea that surfaced during WW2 on
the Allied side on a couple of occasions: to assassinate Hitler. The people
who most fervently opposed that were the military. The last thing they
wanted was to have Hitler removed from power, and a professional military
junta take over. They'd no longer be faced with German armies commanded
haphazardly by an incompetent amateur like Hitler, but with most probably
someone like Erwin Rommel as commander in chief. The combination of
Hitler's total power and total incompetence as a military leader was
perhaps the biggest strategic asset the Allies had.
obscene dog
<pilt...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
>The combination of
>Hitler's total power and total incompetence as a military leader was
>perhaps the biggest strategic asset the Allies had.
I completetly agree.
Here's a list of others who had complete power and went insane:
Hubbard.
That is all.
--
Don't get in front of me.
What the... Oh, shi-