From a BELIEVER in Twitchell's "made up bullshit system" known as Eckankar

[Henosis Sage]

see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNc5osh-m2M&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z13dvjcj4zrpd3rsi22dt1maevukcbrg304

This is from a BELIEVER in Twitchell's "made up bullshit system" known as Eckankar

It's like this. Paul's seven main books are like spiritual adventures and spiritual roleplay. Most Eckists know and have known for 3-4 decades it's "not real". I can tell you of three dozen . Many will even discuss Darwin honestly because he initiated some of them in 1974,76 and 78... They all knew Ford Johnson for 20 years. They enjoy Pauls books like a little book club and treat it like roleplay. Some older high initiates knew back 1970 ! Rebezar uses half the writings of Julian and a few paragraphs from 50 other books by 10 others. Paul is creating the Tibetan monk experience in way that was more spiritual and updated without the dress code and celibacy and vegetarian life that goes with Indian Sikh Hindu ... Rebezar is also a combination of the Sikh gurus, based on Kirpal but with a backstory taken from Guru Nanek, and Paul placed himself as a sort of Dalai Lama of the spiritual worlds. Other Eck Master characters were created to add more life to the stories and make redundant descriptions of light and sound and God more readable to those who want the spiritual journey. The Eck Masters are like Hindu characters, figures to focus on while imagining that face of the God. They come from different countries and different centuries as symbolic idols of an invisible concept. He copied pages and passed them on to a few dozen people for five years as notes and study material and rewriting endless paragraphs about the nature of God wouldn't have made any difference to what was being said. In 1957-1964, Paul may have been among the first few hundred people to discover the Sikh and Hindu world, since hippies didn't do the guru thing until 1967. Lane didn't discover this until 1977 and it was only by chance ... No one else was going to have read any of that stuff, and biographies about unknown monks wouldn't have been interesting without a little color to the story. Klemp is all fluff just turning everything dream and metaphor story telling. He's a Christian preacher at heart, I believe. I just wish that he would have filled in a few more characters instead the same 12 usually being used. There's a whole world of spiritual fiction that could be incorporated by the many artists that are in this group. Eckankar didn't have a chance to come up with a more diverse mythology of characters but it could have been large scale like Zeus or whoever type mythology. Several women are stay at home wives that entertain themselves with tea parties and paint classes for fun. It's not a religion for anyone born after 1984 and its age group is more for 70s spiritual seekers that "get it". I've always imagined that their could have been at least seven Eck Masters between Rebezar and Paul, at 30-34 years each as Master, usually starting around age 35-40, and that they would probably have to be based on the groups of protestants that came on the first ten Pilgrim ships. Islam and Catholic have Angels, Hindus have representative concepts in their avatars , and so Eckankar is the same way (I prefer Vardankar myself in this decade, and Dhunami was pleasant )

[sign...@gmail.com]

You remaining years on earth might be best served trying to find a religion/way of life to open your heart to God's love. Time is tight. Make it count.

[Henosis Sage]

Your remaining years on earth would be best served Blowing me Robert!

[Tisra Til]

LOL!

[Kinpa]

Externalizing his deepest, darkest fantasies yet again...

[sign...@gmail.com]

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 10:15:36 PM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:

"It's not a religion for anyone born after 1984 . . " is a surprising assertion from someone supposedly versed in matters spiritual. One's date of birth is neither here nor there. Man is Soul, which itself is ageless being a spark of God.

The key to finding out whether ECKANKAR is for you or not is trying a very simple spiritual exercise: http://www.eckankar.org/hu.html

[sign...@gmail.com]

This remark alone demonstrates how A.R.E., after auspicious beginnings, has degenerated into a haven for the unholy.

[wernertrp]

yes yes yes a.r.e. do not sustain into infinity.
the Internet is a short time side trip split.
In 150 years nobody knows about eckankar
and I have forgotten my incarnation.

[Henosis Sage]

Robert I am pretty sure you do not realize how offensive you already are without even needing to swear.

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

It means that those born in the 80s will have gone straight to the plagiarism stuff and miss out on the fuller meaning and mythology. I am not a "believer" in mythology, but Paul was developing something as beautiful as the Hindu characters and personifications. I am 4 years on the Vardankar path in this era.

[Tisra Til]

Was this beautiful development supposed to include completely contradictory statements among "his" writings (probably because he couldn't remember what he wrote, or copied, from one book to the next)?

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

Paul wrote seven books.
Julian wrote two.
The plagiarism thing has been
exaggerated excessively and pointlessly.

[Henosis Sage]

On Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:24:33 UTC+11, wildberry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Paul wrote seven books.

No. He wrote far more than that.

Depending on what one calls a "book" or not it was about 23 eckankar books, and over a hundred of other fiction 'books'.

> Julian wrote two.

No. He wrote more than that.

> The plagiarism thing has been exaggerated excessively and pointlessly.

No it hasn't.

The minimization of the verbatim copying plagiarism Paul did has been so exaggerated, so perniciously, so dishonestly, and so irrationally for so long that people like 'wildberry' have been utterly conned by it to this day and therefore refuse to listen to anything countering such entrenched false beliefs. (= human:101)

The evidence is substantive, repeatable, credible, clear, over-whelming and irrefutable.
eg this little summary list here
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M0yAR0UPhPd0IxM1pHNGxGaGc

and when faced with it square on, it looks like this classic example here!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-M0yAR0UPhPLVpHNVRpSkE2Q3c

(smile)

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

I don't see anyone calling those cartoon Hindu God's "made up". Maybe the worshippers of Ganesha need to be out in a mental institution for such nonsense ?

Paul Twitchell provided spiritual seekers with the satsang experience they wouldn't get otherwise. He took a few pages from a few books that no one in the United States would have ever heard of 1964. He said that others have written it better than he could, and Eckankars website has always acknowledged the master compiler and writings of Julian Johnson (for over 19 years). It's old irrelevant news AND ECKISTS ALREADY KNOW THAT AND DO NOT CARE and doesn't take away from the essence of what he was doing. Julian died in 1939. No one was reading his books.
No one is going to India to be a devoted Sikh follower and so he brings that idea into the astral travel worlds. All the ancient Greek philosophers just copied each other too. Aristotle and Plato is all the same so let's accuse them of plagiarizing too.

The Beach Boys ripped of Chuck Berry without giving credit for three decades lol. Paul Twitchell made no real money printing off newsletters for the first three ladies who joined him.

Harold Klemp is just a fake Master who has changed the subject entirely.

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

All the people who accuse Paul of copying are just copying David Lane themselves. It's not like they did any of their own research or discovered any of this. No one was reading these books until Paul made them known. He turned a few copied pages and paragraphs into several books. Rebazar Tarz is a made up composite of people and ideas. Jesus is a made up and altered Egyptian character.

[Tisra Til]

Well if the Beach boys weren't giving Chuck Berry credit where credit was due, then why should Twitchell give anyone credit for the ideas he propounded? I mean, being the god man and sole spokesman for the Sugmad in the whole universe and all, why should he be accountable for anything?

I'm jealous.

[Henosis Sage]

Aha, as usual, a significant lack of knowledge typically leads to incorrect conclusions. I have better things to do with my life, and so I have zero interest in wasting that by providing "evidence or refs" about what I say below. However if you would really like confirmation that what I know is correct and 100% true, then by all means ask, and I will POINT YOU in the right direction to find out by yourself for yourself and through your own direct personal experience! :-)

Let's have a look at this and consider the actual facts of the matter.

1) I don't see anyone calling those cartoon Hindu God's "made up".

Then you are not looking nor listening. What you said is so obviously patently not true I cannot see the need to provide a ref to prove it.

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong


2) Maybe the worshippers of Ganesha need to be out in a mental institution for such nonsense?

Maybe they should be, if mental institutions were not so dysfunctional. Makes more rational sense that the worshipers could gain from a knowledge of social sciences, psychology and cognitive science and a decent knowledge of History about their own Faith. That would certainly assist yourself personally regarding the Vardankar and it's History.

Your rhetorical question which includes a specific type of claim and your belief is 100% wrong.

3) Paul Twitchell provided spiritual seekers with the satsang experience they wouldn't get otherwise.

They could have become Buddhists, joined Ruhani Satsang, Joined a BEAS Satsang, gone to a Sikh Temple, become a Sanyasin, joined Kriya Yoga in CA, signed up for Discourses from multiple providers at that time, including Bahghat Singh Thind who was doing what Twitchell did long long before inside the USA or they could have done what Twitchell did and CRACKED A BOOK. (SMILE)

They could also have become a Scientologist or a Mormon or gone back to their Jewish teachings if "satsang" was what they were after.

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong. So are http://vardankar.com beliefs and rhetoric and myths.

4) He took a few pages from a few books ....

My rough count from memory is over 100 books. More than 90% of all Twitchell's Eckankar writings and 99% of his "ideas/concepts" are COPIED from those Books.

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong.

5) He took a few pages from a few books that no one in the United States would have ever heard of 1964.

Ignorance is bliss. Julian Johnson was given a BEAS book in the USA in the early 1930s. That's why he travelled to India. The BOOK was there already in the USA when Twitchell was a little boy. By 1964 there were many more books from Radhasoami teachings, and the Sikhs, and Buddhists, and Hinduism, and more.

Patti Simpson and Klemp could have visited a Library anytime they chose to. Many others besides Twitchell did that very same thing.

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong.


6) He said that others have written it better than he could,

So what? Reports suggest that he said that once to one person. Why do you believe that is in fact true? Where for example is there a credible record of Paul himself saying that he said that or thought that?

I'll tell you the answer: No where! ;-)

Besides, if others had written it better than he could, why not simply add PotM to the Eckists "book reading list"? And Hubbard, and everyone else's books?

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong.

That's not an opinion, that's a known fact.

You're entitled to your own opinion and beliefs, but not to your own FACTS.

Vardankar Akatha Dhunami is nothing more than a warmed over copied version of Twitchell's Eckankar.

At least Michael Turner's SFS http://spiritualfreedomsatsang.org is honest and accurate despite a few errors and oversights along the way. (That's my opinion not needing evidence, it's juts my personal take on MT whom I do respect greatly - and no I am not a 'member of SFS'.)

7) .... and Eckankars website has always acknowledged the master compiler and writings of Julian Johnson (for over 19 years).

= SPIN and Bullshit and intentional Manipulation of all who read such crap.

8) It's old irrelevant news AND ECKISTS ALREADY KNOW THAT AND DO NOT CARE

Totally false. All Eckists DO NOT KNOW THAT, nor do they know the actual facts of the matter of what Twitchell actually did and HOW he did it. All Eckists DO NOT EVEN KNOW that Twitchell was a Scientologist and a senior STAFF MEMBER for years!!!

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong


9) ... and doesn't take away from the essence of what he was doing.

True. But what WAS he doing? That, 'in essence' is the only critical question worth asking. Whether he meant well or did not is irrelevant here today.

Your current beliefs about what he was doing are 100% wrong!

10) Julian died in 1939. No one was reading his books.

Yes they were. That's a fact! Paul Twitchell was only ONE of them.

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong


11) No one is going to India to be a devoted Sikh follower ...

Some did and some still do! That's a fact and is what 'truth' looks like when you see it. :-)

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong

These simple refs may help
http://www.uncommon-knowledge.co.uk/articles/stop-lying.html
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1999-15054-002
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/



12) ... and so he brings that idea into the astral travel worlds.

Huh? makes no sense, please explain that.

13) All the ancient Greek philosophers just copied each other too.

Yes they did, but they did not LIE about it and say Rebazar Tarzs said it instead. BIG DIFFERENCE.

And they did MORE than simply copy each other, they also added in KNEW ideas as well. Besides it's 2018 today, and not 600BC. If humans are supposed to UNFOLD and IMPROVE then maybe the truth is that nothing has changed for the better, yet.

Especially given that the great Vardankar Master of the day is just more of the same. He has COPIED OTHERS without any checks or balances or truth in his mythical stories. Big deal, not!

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong

14) Aristotle and Plato is all the same so let's accuse them of plagiarizing too.

Do what you wish, I will not follow you. Aristotle and Plato is NOT the subject of this conversation.

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong

15) The Beach Boys ripped of Chuck Berry without giving credit for three decades lol.

Everyone who plays a 12 bar blues is "ripping off" Chuck Berry and those who came before him. But NONE OF THEM ARE lYING ABOUT THAT WELL KNOWN FACT.

See logical fallacies again, to see which one you are relying upon.

Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong

16) Paul Twitchell made no real money printing off newsletters for the first three ladies who joined him.

True! Check those logical fallacies again, ok?

BECAUSE he made real money to pay for his house and his food and his clothes and his travels. Gail Twitchell made $500,000 just for selling Eckankar the rights to Twitchell's writings ... writings he copied and LIED ABOUT until the day he died. That's a fact.

See DOBTLEM proof positive in a published book by Eckankar in Twitchell's own words.


Your claims and your beliefs are 100% wrong


17) Harold Klemp is just a fake Master who has changed the subject entirely.

True. As was Paul Twitchell just a fake Master who has changed the subject entirely.

As is Allen Feldman just another fake Master who has changed the subject entirely!!!

===================================

OK so fwiw, there are things Twitchell wrote and taught that are true and very useful. He shared many "truisms" and useful concepts and ideas. He made people THINK about life and whatever. That's good, and definitely useful to some people, including myself at the time.

There is REAL VALUE in "sitting at the foot of the master" --- however there is also great danger in doing so. And the majority of followers belong in the latter group outcome not the former.

Paul Twitchell is, unfortunately, a proven meticulous liar. About himself, about his family, about his life, about Eckankar, about Rebazar Tarzs and everything that goes with that.

Just because Allen Feldman and Klemp and Doug Marman and Patti Simpson believes he wasn't, is no valid reason for you to follow them or Vardankar.

There are real valid reasons WHY joining Eckankar or Vardankar can feel so fantastic and it;s true that doing so actually can and DOES help people compared to where they were beforehand.

But that is NOT proof that continuing to do so is not dangerous to yourself (and those you love and care about) and your long term well-being nor your genuine desire to "find the truth" about life and yourself and who you are!

However, human beings come to believe all manner of things and do all kinds of things that are in fact dangerous to themselves and others. Eckankar and Vardankar are simply two of the options available.

You have the inherent right to believe and do whatever you want to do. But that will never change the fact that no matter what there will be consequences.

Not my problem, not my responsibility. It's 100% your own. Do as you wilt.

[Henosis Sage]

On Sunday, 11 February 2018 02:28:07 UTC+11, wildberry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> All the people who accuse Paul of copying are just copying David Lane themselves. It's not like they did any of their own research or discovered any of this. No one was reading these books until Paul made them known. He turned a few copied pages and paragraphs into several books. Rebazar Tarz is a made up composite of people and ideas. Jesus is a made up and altered Egyptian character.

More myth making and lack of true knowledge compounded by wooly thinking and logical fallacies.

1) All the people who accuse Paul of copying are just copying David Lane themselves

FALSE. I have several disagreement with what Lane presented and what he "believed" or still "believes". He made a lot of mistakes. But not as many as Doug Marman did, or Harold did, or Patti Simpson did, and Feldman still does.

2) It's not like they did any of their own research or discovered any of this.

FALSE. I have done my own research and discovered things that no one else had known ... or at least had NOT shared with the world openly in public. I am not the only one.

WHERE DO YOU THINK DAVID DISCOVERED THINGS IN HIS RESEARCH -- PEOPLE TOLD HIM AND SHOWED HIM -- THEN HE DID HIS OWN RESEARCH OVER AND ABOVE THAT AND THEN HE COMPILED IT INTO A BOOK ..... Ah, Lane, is a Great Compiler too!

So am I ... and that's a provable FACT.

3) No one was reading these books until Paul made them known.

Oh bullshit crap and blather ..... Your claim and your belief is 100% wrong.

None of those books mentioned Rebazar Tarzs nor any of the others.

Here is something I think is true --- it is YOU & FELDMAN who has never READ THOSE BOOKS --- I HAVE.

4) He turned a few copied pages and paragraphs into several books.

FALSE. Over 90% of all Twitchell's WORDS & SENTENCES in his writings were COPIED VERBATIM or slightly "edited" to fit is intentions.

Those words and sentences DID NOT only come from Indian "spiritual books" of existing teachings. He selected all kinds of TEXT for all manner of existing piublished books and texts that fit his intentions and his MYTH MAKING.

Including about his own SELF-IMPORTANCE aka EGO. Just as Feldman has done and still doing right now today!

WAKE UP ..... life's too short! ;-)

5) Rebazar Tarz is a made up composite of people and ideas.

THEN, if that is what you believe is true, YOU ADMIT Twitchell was LYING and so is Feldman and AKATHA and Klemp .... and willing chose to PROMOTE THOSE all over the Internet especially via YOUTUBE .... I have spoken to you about this on Youtube before several times and yet then you DID NOT ADMIT what you have just said above.

6) Jesus is a made up and altered Egyptian character.

Who cares if that became well known, except Christians and Muslims?

Who cares if it became well known, that Rebazar Tarzs is nothing but a MYTH EXCEPT for Eckankar, Vardankar, Akatha, Dhunami, and all the others?

[Henosis Sage]

On Sunday, 11 February 2018 07:07:04 UTC+11, Tisra Til wrote:
> Well if the Beach boys weren't giving Chuck Berry credit where credit was due, then why should Twitchell give anyone credit for the ideas he propounded? I mean, being the god man and sole spokesman for the Sugmad in the whole universe and all, why should he be accountable for anything?
>
> I'm jealous.

You might be jealous, but not as jealous as I am!!!

Nah nah! ;-)

[Henosis Sage]

On Sunday, 11 February 2018 02:28:07 UTC+11, wildberry...@yahoo.com wrote:

> All the people who accuse Paul of copying are just copying David Lane themselves. It's not like they did any of their own research or discovered any of this. No one was reading these books until Paul made them known. He turned a few copied pages and paragraphs into several books. Rebazar Tarz is a made up composite of people and ideas. Jesus is a made up and altered Egyptian character.

RE: "Rebazar Tarz is a made up composite of people and ideas."

VARDANKAR has once more come forward through the guidance of Rebazar Tarzs, Yaubl Sacabi, and other great VARDAN Masters of old who have been with us through all ages of humankind.
http://vardankar.com/

And I forgot something I think is critically important here.

It does not matter much how many specific things that Twitchell included in his plagiarized writings are actually true, truisms or useful to people.

Because the WHOLE of what he did in creating Eckankar and making himself out as being a "true genuine spiritual master" is FALSE.

The whole of Eckankar and Vardankar etc is FALSE and it is dangerous.

It is a proven fact that Eckankar has and continues to harm people.

It is not of any value in and of itself because the whole of it (and all the spin-offs) are Lies and NOT True!

So there! :-)

[wernertrp]

I have had the deepest, darkest, creepy fantasy training in 1960.
With Perry Rhodan.

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

It's taken you a long time to write whatever this is I'm not looking through. . Hope you had fun talking to yourself. Looks like that's all you've done on this site for years lol

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

It hasn't been proven harmful. I know several professionally successful Eckists. They don't need to be Buddhist or Sikhism and be vegetatarians and not be allowed to shave or all that stuff to be spiritual . And of course they know about David Lane exposing the copies of Julian Johnson. They've known for over 35 years. It's not important. They're not going to India to live in huts and starve to gain mystical insight or.goinf out to find 100 foreign books about religion printed in the 1930s.
Paul brought an astral version of India to his chelas. Watered down, sure , but some people like that book club & satsang type experience.

[Henosis Sage]

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 12:52:05 UTC+11, wildberry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> It hasn't been proven harmful. I know several professionally successful Eckists. They don't need to be Buddhist or Sikhism and be vegetatarians and not be allowed to shave or all that stuff to be spiritual . And of course they know about David Lane exposing the copies of Julian Johnson. They've known for over 35 years. It's not important. They're not going to India to live in huts and starve to gain mystical insight or.goinf out to find 100 foreign books about religion printed in the 1930s.
> Paul brought an astral version of India to his chelas. Watered down, sure , but some people like that book club & satsang type experience.

Oh do shut up. You do not have a clue about the facts of the matter. Ignorant and stupid. Simple.

[Henosis Sage]

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 12:40:54 UTC+11, wildberry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> It's taken you a long time to write whatever this is I'm not looking through. . Hope you had fun talking to yourself. Looks like that's all you've done on this site for years lol

Don't read, I do not give a shit.

Your IGNORANCE IS BLISS .... whoopie damn shit!

[sign...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 1:52:05 AM UTC, wildberry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> It hasn't been proven harmful. I know several professionally successful Eckists. They don't need to be Buddhist or Sikhism and be vegetatarians and not be allowed to shave or all that stuff to be spiritual . And of course they know about David Lane exposing the copies of Julian Johnson. They've known for over 35 years. It's not important. They're not going to India to live in huts and starve to gain mystical insight or.goinf out to find 100 foreign books about religion printed in the 1930s.
> Paul brought an astral version of India to his chelas. Watered down, sure , but some people like that book club & satsang type experience.

But the question is: why couldn't ECKists care less about perceived plagiarism? Simple. They are grateful for the Spiritual Exercises of ECK one of which is the singing of the word HU. Filled with gratitude, they dwell in the Light and Sound of God and proceed towards Self and God Realization. I am grateful not just to Paul but to all the Vairagi ECK Masters for making this all possible.

[wernertrp]

... and some apostates sing the NU.
Yes, not the HU the new NU.
(Rebisar included)

[Etznab]

Whether people really care about the plagiarism, or not, it doesn't change the plagiarism facts.

I think you and others are doing more than minimizing the plagiarism facts, IMHO there have been efforts to silence the topic and those who discuss it.

Let me just say this. I have been an active member of Eckankar for over three decades. And I think these examples of plagiarism severely discredit the reality of Rebazar Tarzs that many readers had bought into. Harold Klemp came out and talked about Paul Twitchell and the writings of Paul Twitchell. He also talked about where many of the writings came from. I don't recall the name Rebazar Tarzs mentioned. On the Eckankar website in the FAQ section do you see Rebazar Tarzs as a source of any Eckankar writings?

It has been explained by Doug Marman about how he and Harold Klemp researched the files and manuscripts, etc. in some of Paul's files. And because Paul had copied from books this has become a probable reason about how he could write so many books in such a relatively short period of time.

I could write many books too if I copied and pasted text out of already written books.

So let's have an Eckist to Eckist discussion about these instances of creating a character called Rebazar Tarzs with the copied and plagiarized words of writers whom Paul Twitchell thought could write / say things better than he could. And let's ask ourselves why Eckankar has known about such things from the 1970s and took so long (after it was all spelled out to them) to tell the membership. And why, instead, some people instead attacked the messenger as if to silence the truth that was the truth then, is the truth today, and will in the future continue to be no matter what crafty detractions and pseudo man (and woman)-made history and religion is dreamed up by those to whom power, prestige and profit are believed to be in need of saving at all costs.

[Henosis Sage]

Bzzzzt - try *dumb as dirt* as the *simple* answer Rob.

That and being grateful for being self-deluded and ignorant.

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

That NU stuff is terrible. Unreadable nonsense. The website looks like it was made by second grader.
That is some of the worst writing and truly put together by incoherent daydreamers. That Kelsey girl posts hours and hours and hours of videos for like 4 people every day.
Also the roots of an obvious Nigerian scam, some kind of attempt to raise money to put on a concert to raise money for the children.
The NUWAVIS. ThenALLIS. Walk with Rebisar hahahaha.

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

You endlessly complain about this copying stuff, and yet here you are just copying and pasting my YouTube comments to your page.

You're so sad and pathetic you have to copy things just to have something to complain about. If you don't like Eckankar, spend your evenings reading whatever books or watching whatever shows.

Just coming on here just makes you look like you need medication to control this bipolar mood swings you go off on these rants using cuss words because you're a big boy yes you are ! I couldn't those chubby cheeks awwww...hugs and kisses sweetie pie. Be sure to wipe your butt so your mom doesn't have to wash skidmarks out of your underwear you've been sitting in all day typing out messages on the computer.

I'd love to see you quote and copy and respond to all of that one sentence at a time. Bye bye retarded sage

[extravagante...@gmail.com]

You are something else and funny. I just used your YouTube and group discussion page on one of my videos. I am going to call it: "where Paul Twitchell found his keywords". Oh, I got excommunicated by Eckankar. Woohoo!!! Like it means shit. LMFAO.
You really need to stop arguing over Eckankar with people. Eckankar members are obsessed and agressive. There is no point. Eckankar has bigger fish to fry this year. They are being sued this year. They may not talk about it but it is still a big deal.

[Henosis Sage]

RE: You endlessly complain about this copying stuff,

Not me. Never have.

RE: and yet here you are just copying and pasting my YouTube comments to your page.


Are you talking to me? I have a name. Try using it. ;-)
And yeah, if someone copied your public comments on youtube to another public forum and put YOUR NAME ON IT, so fucking what?

Ever heard of FAIR USE dumb ass? People have been copying other peoples stuff for 200,000 friggin years. I have NO ISSUE with that and do not complain about it.


RE: Just coming on here just makes you look like you need medication to control this bipolar mood swings you go off on these rants using cuss words because you're a big boy yes you are !

People in GLASS HOUSES you know....... STONES :-)

RE: Bye bye retarded sage

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE~! :-)

[Henosis Sage]

On Saturday, 17 March 2018 05:14:34 UTC+11, extravagante...@gmail.com wrote:
> You are something else and funny. I just used your YouTube and group discussion page on one of my videos. I am going to call it: "where Paul Twitchell found his keywords". Oh, I got excommunicated by Eckankar. Woohoo!!! Like it means shit. LMFAO.
> You really need to stop arguing over Eckankar with people. Eckankar members are obsessed and agressive. There is no point. Eckankar has bigger fish to fry this year. They are being sued this year. They may not talk about it but it is still a big deal.

Thanks (smile)

RE: You really need to stop arguing over Eckankar with people.

I don't argue .. it only appears so to some people. I'm doing fine, and thanks for the friendly advice and for caring enough to say it.

It's all good. :-)

My best wishes to you ....

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

Do you live on this website retarded sage ? All year long you comment to the same three or four posts . If you don't like Eckankar, get a life and do something with it besides being a loser and a sissy bitch just hiding his low self esteem behind his keyboard and big boy cuss words make you feel big and tough you big crybaby.
Pull up your diaper crybaby.
Nobody wants to see your shit.
Bye bye retarded sage

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

Did you forget that bipolar medication again this morning or are just a crybaby naturally ?

The retarded maid gets a little mad when he doesn't have his milk and cookies with his medicine.

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

There you go copying it her people's stuff again. Paul Twitchell Junior is what we will call you from now on.
Is that ok with you Retarded Maid ?
I mean, Paul Twitchell Junior ?
Keep copying stuff since you've been renting the same complaints on here for years. Don't forget to take your medication so you don't get too mad.
Sorry the meds make your dick so tiny and you have to release your anger on a small religion to make your loser self feel better.

[Henosis Sage]

Bye, fuck off.

[Henosis Sage]

On Sunday, 18 March 2018 12:42:04 UTC+11, wildberry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Did you forget that bipolar medication again this morning or are just a crybaby naturally ?
>
> The retarded maid gets a little mad when he doesn't have his milk and cookies with his medicine.

Bye again, fuck off.

[Etznab]

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 9:28:07 AM UTC-6, wildberry...@yahoo.com wrote:
> All the people who accuse Paul of copying are just copying David Lane themselves. It's not like they did any of their own research or discovered any of this. No one was reading these books until Paul made them known. He turned a few copied pages and paragraphs into several books. Rebazar Tarz is a made up composite of people and ideas. Jesus is a made up and altered Egyptian character.

"[...] Rebazar Tarz is a made up composite of people and ideas. [... .]"

Curious. On what basis do you make such a statement? Iow, What is your evidence that he is "made up"?

[Henosis Sage]

and yet again Bye, fuck off. :-)

[wildberry...@yahoo.com]

The same.evidence that is always referred to.

The name Kirpal Singh was changed to Rebazar and given the biography of Guru Name and the books of Julian Johnson and paragraphs from Ali Nomand and others were "his teachings" haha.

Rebazar is likely a road sign Twitchell saw in southern California meaning "to pass".

Ron Hubbard invented his life story and Paul later saw the artistic opportunity to do the same by inventing his own Sikh and Buddhist path.

[alea...@gmail.com]

Think that PT made up all of them or they are actual Masters with a few letters changed or made up names. I saw many on my own Inner WAY before Eckankar and they NEVER had Eck names--and whan I tried to call them that 'after' I joined they'd just wink and giggle and tell me not to get stuck in a BELIEF SYSTEM." I have taken that to heart and after 10 YEARS of intense research now can SEE. Belief blinders CREATE experiences because how else CAN Soul communicate with you except within that belief system? so Eckists SEE all them guys because they BELIEVE. And many ARE real--just made up names...but then again...So? As HK used to say (no more;(, we see who we "love and trust"..on out Inner plane experiences. A Jew will see Moses, a Christian Jesus, Islam Mohammed..etc etc...and an Eckist HK. Or their mythology. It STILL does NOT invalidate the EXPERIENCE if it teaches spirituality, helps you etc. It is a matter of realized Twitchell's creation was actually a "Readers Digest condensed version" of Johnson, Troward, Hall, Blavatsky and many many others (HU was directly from Hazrat Khan...)...So, as long as they are happy, WHO CARES? but if they are HARMED? Then I draw exception . Today BLACK MAGIC IS RAMPANT IN ECKANKAR and the naive trusting ones its victim. Fatigue, illness, weird symptoms go unrecognized. God eaters? Life force drainers? I am sorry to say it goes unchecked and harm HAS happened....and THAT, to me, is the END of Eckankar.

[sign...@gmail.com]

Ignore Comrade Sage. He gets upset with everyone who doesn't agree with his point of view.

[sign...@gmail.com]

Ignore Comrade Sage. In his myopic rage he forgets everyone is entitled to a point of view.

[Kinpa]

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 12:07:37 AM UTC-4, alea...@gmail.com wrote:
> Think that PT made up all of them or they are actual Masters with a few letters changed or made up names. I saw many on my own Inner WAY before Eckankar and they NEVER had Eck names--and whan I tried to call them that 'after' I joined they'd just wink and giggle and tell me not to get stuck in a BELIEF SYSTEM." I have taken that to heart and after 10 YEARS of intense research now can SEE. Belief blinders CREATE experiences because how else CAN Soul communicate with you except within that belief system? so Eckists SEE all them guys because they BELIEVE. And many ARE real--just made up names...but then again...So? As HK used to say (no more;(, we see who we "love and trust"..on out Inner plane experiences. A Jew will see Moses, a Christian Jesus, Islam Mohammed..etc etc...and an Eckist HK. Or their mythology. It STILL does NOT invalidate the EXPERIENCE if it teaches spirituality, helps you etc. It is a matter of realized Twitchell's creation was actually a "Readers Digest condensed version" of Johnson, Troward, Hall, Blavatsky and many many others (HU was directly from Hazrat Khan...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hu was used eons before HIK was even born. Hu is both Persian and Indian. Hu in Arabic is a completely separate word. The etymology of the English term "God" proves this to be true. The Masters exist, and not one of the names used in Eckankar are their actual names either. Why would that be surprising? It isn't. Names are mental creations and nothing more. That fact never changes. Twitchell also made the point that no one ought to get too caught up in belief systems...that is hardly a new thing.

...So, as long as they are happy, WHO CARES? but if they are HARMED? Then I draw exception . Today BLACK MAGIC IS RAMPANT IN ECKANKAR and the naive trusting ones its victim. Fatigue, illness, weird symptoms go unrecognized. God eaters? Life force drainers? I am sorry to say it goes unchecked and harm HAS happened....and THAT, to me, is the END of Eckankar.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if you know what actual black magic even is...Eckankar continues very much alive without using any, despite the various assumptions people here make. It won't end any time soon either. You are free to draw any exception you want to, however, be not surprised when no one much cares. Opinions are personal things after all...nothing to get worked up about.

Have a nice day

[Kinpa]

---------------------------------------------------

Don't let him lie to you, he desires the attention, it is his "bread and butter" so to speak...

[Henosis Sage]

On Wednesday, 21 March 2018 19:39:45 UTC+11, sign...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ignore Comrade Sage. In his myopic rage he forgets everyone is entitled to a point of view.

Hi Rob, fuck off you intolerant bigoted asshole.

[Henosis Sage]

On Wednesday, 21 March 2018 19:39:45 UTC+11, sign...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ignore Comrade Sage. In his myopic rage he forgets everyone is entitled to a point of view.

Hi Rob, fuck off you intolerant bigoted asshole who forgets repeatedly everyone is entitled to a point of view.

Yeah, Fuck off Rob!

[Etznab]

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 11:07:37 PM UTC-5, alea...@gmail.com wrote:
> Think that PT made up all of them or they are actual Masters with a few letters changed or made up names. I saw many on my own Inner WAY before Eckankar and they NEVER had Eck names--and whan I tried to call them that 'after' I joined they'd just wink and giggle and tell me not to get stuck in a BELIEF SYSTEM." I have taken that to heart and after 10 YEARS of intense research now can SEE. Belief blinders CREATE experiences because how else CAN Soul communicate with you except within that belief system? so Eckists SEE all them guys because they BELIEVE. And many ARE real--just made up names...but then again...So? As HK used to say (no more;(, we see who we "love and trust"..on out Inner plane experiences. A Jew will see Moses, a Christian Jesus, Islam Mohammed..etc etc...and an Eckist HK. Or their mythology. It STILL does NOT invalidate the EXPERIENCE if it teaches spirituality, helps you etc. It is a matter of realized Twitchell's creation was actually a "Readers Digest condensed version" of Johnson, Troward, Hall, Blavatsky and many many others (HU was directly from Hazrat Khan...)...So, as long as they are happy, WHO CARES? but if they are HARMED? Then I draw exception . Today BLACK MAGIC IS RAMPANT IN ECKANKAR and the naive trusting ones its victim. Fatigue, illness, weird symptoms go unrecognized. God eaters? Life force drainers? I am sorry to say it goes unchecked and harm HAS happened....and THAT, to me, is the END of Eckankar.

"[...] It STILL does NOT invalidate the EXPERIENCE if it teaches spirituality, helps you etc. [... .]"

A living master belonging to an unbroken lineage of living masters. This is the invalidated experience! IMHO :)

I think it really cheapens the path to fake something like that. And to further try and minimize this as no matter.

[Etznab]

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 11:07:37 PM UTC-5, alea...@gmail.com wrote:

> Think that PT made up all of them or they are actual Masters with a few letters changed or made up names. I saw many on my own Inner WAY before Eckankar and they NEVER had Eck names--and whan I tried to call them that 'after' I joined they'd just wink and giggle and tell me not to get stuck in a BELIEF SYSTEM." I have taken that to heart and after 10 YEARS of intense research now can SEE. Belief blinders CREATE experiences because how else CAN Soul communicate with you except within that belief system? so Eckists SEE all them guys because they BELIEVE. And many ARE real--just made up names...but then again...So? As HK used to say (no more;(, we see who we "love and trust"..on out Inner plane experiences. A Jew will see Moses, a Christian Jesus, Islam Mohammed..etc etc...and an Eckist HK. Or their mythology. It STILL does NOT invalidate the EXPERIENCE if it teaches spirituality, helps you etc. It is a matter of realized Twitchell's creation was actually a "Readers Digest condensed version" of Johnson, Troward, Hall, Blavatsky and many many others (HU was directly from Hazrat Khan...)...So, as long as they are happy, WHO CARES? but if they are HARMED? Then I draw exception . Today BLACK MAGIC IS RAMPANT IN ECKANKAR and the naive trusting ones its victim. Fatigue, illness, weird symptoms go unrecognized. God eaters? Life force drainers? I am sorry to say it goes unchecked and harm HAS happened....and THAT, to me, is the END of Eckankar.

If you don't agree with Kinpa. Don't.

He might get nasty with you and make up lies ... like he did about me

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/B5SftowQzNg/w5aecOgTCQAJ

and like he did about Sean. If he attacks you with lies, it will simply add to the already growing legacy of same.

*********

I agree a good number of the writings compiled, copied and paraphrased by Paul Twitchell are inspirational and helpful spiritually, etc. However, perhaps unlike Kinpa and Rob, I think the jig is up about some of what Paul Twitchell actually did. I think it needs to be out in the open and talked about so the writings can be viewed in context to the truth vs. pseudo history and religion. This is what will help Eckankar immensely IMHO, both today and into the future. I seriously doubt if it will profit to (at this point) try and perpetuate the myths, or detract from the actual truth.

For thinking this way some might deny I am an Eckist, but I challenge them to show me where it says that lies should be respected more than the truth; no matter what the name of the religion / path.

TKTE - pp. 41-42

"Anyone following the path of ECKANKAR cannot go through a day satisfied that he has read some truth in the morning or that he is going to hear some truth in the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious realization of truth going on all the time. This does not mean he is going to neglect his human duties and activities. It means that he is going to train himself to have some area in his consciousness always active in truth. Whether we look at the forms of nature as trees, flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we find some measure of God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the presence and activity of God in everything around us and live within the Word."

PTP - p. 23

The student of spiritual wisdom cannot go through his day, satisfied that he has read some truth in the morning, or that he is going to hear some truth in the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious activity of truth going on all the time. That does not mean that we neglect our human duties and activities; it means that we train ourselves to have some area of consciousness always active in truth. Whether we look out at forms of nature such as trees, flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we find some measure of God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the presence and activity of God in everything around us and to abide in the Word.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/Q5NbuPou0dA/UN7sA4gWDwAJ

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/Kt1zy0E1vgM/E7yJ5mB1CgAJ

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/k4tKb0TXJsA/MMuiTZg_WyUJ

Reference links for Practicing the Presence

http://www.iwso.org/2014-SEP19-PracticingThePresence-SpiritualConsciousness-TheDailyLesson.pdf

http://www.iammultimedia.com/uploads/1/8/7/3/18735500/practicing_the_presence-joel_s._goldsmith.pdf

[Henosis Sage]

typo?

it will simply add to the already growing legacy of SHAME.

[MM]

the problem biggest--in my humble opinion--is that black magic IS alive and well and 90% of Eckists are simply UNAWARE of it. In Africa, magic, tribal belief and Eck are all mixed up-it is not anything like USA Eck. Those that went to their seminars came back totally bewildered by many of their beliefs... I had an 8th initiate tell me my experiences were NOT my imagination to write about this is DANGEROUS now. That in and of itself is my answer. 8ths today pull party lines and are NOT accessible to members as were Patti, Helen Baird, Millie Moore, Elmo deWhitt and the like--they were wonderful, HONEST people who answered any and all questions late into the nite at seminars--long wonderful spiritual discussions, surrounded by YOUNG PEOPLE (of which I was one...ah...youth...) where questions and debate was WELCOMED. Eckankar today is rules and no questions allowed. Very very sad to become a religion...and watch the Spiritual Warrior retire into sheep...I love god, I love the Holy Spirit...but never EVER will I again give my Inner to ANOTHER PERSON. Lesson learned by direct experiences which I will not go into here--but they would be 'unbelievable' to most. 42 years a member and I am leaving at great heartache but I cannot IGNORE my own Inner and fall into religious frenzy saying" my way "(believe as we tell you to believe--which is FAR different from 1980s Eckankar)or out!...which is EVERY religion...Even Eckankar today.

[Etznab]

"plagiarism means copied without any CREDIT given to another author and claiming it as your original writing--which IS not part of truth. Case closed. When Eckankar finally realizes the internet exposes EVERYTHING--perhaps bibliographies will be forthcoming. I spent 5 years researching and found even more--and it is STILL denied. That is NOT truth. Why is this org so fearful of TRUTH? do they feel everyone will LEAVE if they find out? Techniques work due to BELIEF in them. TRUTH is truth; copied truth is still truth but needs CREDIT where credit is due to another writer!"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/_kC41TWIjpg/Q0rwg3uDCgAJ

I too agree that truth is important.

[Henosis Sage]

On Saturday, 24 March 2018 12:07:57 UTC+11, MM wrote:
> the problem biggest--in my humble opinion--is that black magic IS alive and well and 90% of Eckists are simply UNAWARE of it. In Africa, magic, tribal belief and Eck are all mixed up-it is not anything like USA Eck. Those that went to their seminars came back totally bewildered by many of their beliefs... I had an 8th initiate tell me my experiences were NOT my imagination to write about this is DANGEROUS now. That in and of itself is my answer. 8ths today pull party lines and are NOT accessible to members as were Patti, Helen Baird, Millie Moore, Elmo deWhitt and the like--they were wonderful, HONEST people who answered any and all questions late into the nite at seminars--long wonderful spiritual discussions, surrounded by YOUNG PEOPLE (of which I was one...ah...youth...) where questions and debate was WELCOMED. Eckankar today is rules and no questions allowed. Very very sad to become a religion...and watch the Spiritual Warrior retire into sheep...I love god, I love the Holy Spirit...but never EVER will I again give my Inner to ANOTHER PERSON. Lesson learned by direct experiences which I will not go into here--but they would be 'unbelievable' to most. 42 years a member and I am leaving at great heartache but I cannot IGNORE my own Inner and fall into religious frenzy saying" my way "(believe as we tell you to believe--which is FAR different from 1980s Eckankar)or out!...which is EVERY religion...Even Eckankar today.

Well peace brother. Been a long hard haul with lots of pluses along the way I have no doubt.