The primary sources used as content in Paul Twitchell's Eckankar writings

Peetee Aitchei

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Dec 17, 2014, 3:45:01 AM12/17/14

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The primary sources used as content in Paul Twitchell's Eckankar writings.

Just about all the main authors Twitchell copied, will be found in one of
these umbrella groups

See: the TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE > Spiritual Research Library >

Most of the content in Paul Twitchell's writings about Eckankar were
drawn from the following primary source teachings / streams and texts:

◦ Ancient Greeks and historical Gnostics
◦
◦ Buddhism and Tibet
◦◦
Freemasonary and Rosicrucian teachings
◦
◦ Hindu Gurus Kriya Yoga and Naam Bhakti
◦◦
Islam and Sufism
◦
◦ New Thought and Christian Mystics
◦◦
Philosophy Psychology and Science
◦
◦ Psycho-Spiritual OOB Misc
◦◦
Sant Mat Radhasoami Sikhs
◦
◦ Scientology L Ron Hubbard and Aleister Crowley
◦◦
Theosophy and related Ascended Masters

See: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-M0yAR0UPhPamRmVDVFQ09BQ3M&usp=sharing

The Paul Twitchell and Eckankar 'spin-off' teachings today >

Akatha http://akatha12.weebly.com/ (Sri Timothy Arnold)
Vardankar http://vardankar.com/ (Sri Allen Feldman)
Marmankar http://spiritualdialogues.com/ (Doug Marman)
Akshara Vidya http://aksharavidya.net/cms/front_content.php?idcat=21 (Shri Anton Tönz)
Master Path http://www.masterpath.org/ (Sri Gary Olsen)
ATOM http://www.atom.org/ (Sri Darwin Gross deceased)
SFS http://spiritualfreedomsatsang.org/ (Sri Michael Turner)
MSIA http://www.msia.org/ (Sri John R Hinkins deceased)
Dhunami http://www.dhunami.org/ (Sri Paul Marche)
The Way of Truth http://thewayoftruth.org/ (Sri Michael Owens)

Broadly 'similar teachings' today to Paul Twitchell's ideas and philosophy >

Bhagat Singh Thind www.bhagatsinghthind.com Cached Page
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:V0288__vL8cJ:www.bhagatsinghthind.com/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
The Eureka Society http://www.theeurekasociety.org/
Prem Rawat http://www.premrawat.com/welcome/
Ram Dass https://www.ramdass.org/
Eckhart Tolle http://www.eckharttolle.com/
Don Miguel Ruiz http://www.miguelruiz.com/
Ishwar Puri http://ishwarpuri.org/
Master Ching Hai http://www.godsdirectcontact.org.tw/eng1/index.htm
Elizabeth Clare Prophethttp://www.elizabethclareprophet.org/
The Ascended Masters http://www.summitlighthouse.org/

More information >

Fabrication and Revision of Personal History - Science Vs Paranoia - Prof Lakoff lectures
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPUTBiY1Z6SGx3RGM/view?usp=sharing

TELLING LIES Clues to Deceit by an Paul EKMAN (TEHA 2014 Extracts)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPU3JiMFhaeWVQMWs/view?usp=sharing
Stripping the Gurus - Sex Violence Abuse and Enlightenment by Geoffrey D Falk 2009
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPVzBZcnVWaGw3ZEE/view?usp=sharing

PSYCHOLOGY OF SPIRITUAL SECTS by Michael Rogge 2011
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPTzFLUmlfUDRPMm8/view?usp=sharing

TIME AND ETERNITY An Essay in the Philosophy of Religion by W. T. STACE [1952]
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPQVc1N21LV1IxWWM/view?usp=sharing

Peace!

Kinpa

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Dec 19, 2014, 11:46:00 PM12/19/14

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nothing new here at all, old news!

Etznab

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Jun 9, 2015, 8:53:17 PM6/9/15

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And the other people? your friends who read the posts here? Old news to all of them too?

How about the people not aware about any of this? Maybe it is not old news to you, but not to them.

Kinpa

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Jun 11, 2015, 12:55:17 PM6/11/15

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ALL of the people who read here from my site consider it old news, as I have stated several times..if you would like any of them to prove that to you by stating that themselves, feel free to write them and speak with them about it....furthermore, a HUGE majority of people are all too well aware of ALL of this...How? Have you ever searched the term Eckankar? It is not possible to enter that into a search engine and NOT come across links from people talking about the plagiarism, many of whom are former ECKists...not a huge big deal, just as the way that YOU expect that ANYONE who reads through that material would naturally, ALWAYS come around to joining your opinion, a thing that is simply NOT true.

You must have a very hard time accepting that as even being a possibility regarding the extent that you work trying to insist that such cannot possibly be true! Eckankar the org simply does not mention any of you, David Lane included, and they are not in any way required to. You simply WANT them to, but your desires have no bearing on anyone but yourself. That is fact. Another fact is that people continue to join Eckankar, in spite of having read both David Lane's and Ford Johnson's ebooks, both of which are readily available for free.

Literally ANYONE that does a web search can find ALL of this information! It is not as little known as you both seem to believe. Insisting that it is or that Eckankar has been trying to hide that information from people so as to keep member numbers is another thing you simply cannot prove, and that you have NO evidence for!

You have no choice in the matter, no one is required to agree with your or sean's opinions about Eckankar, or anything else, therefore everyone else in the world NEVER will! Just as NONE of you, nor any combination of you, have ever been able to sue and have it declared illegal in any way. That will never happen regardless, but why should you take such great offense to that? Have you never heard the phrase "to each his own."?

On the comment about the people not aware of any of this, they are NOT my concern or responsibility, if they need to find out, then they can do so very easily, by simply searching. No one is required to hand them the information, Not Eckankar, not Harold Klemp, not anyone. There is no law making finding out any of these things illegal either! Everyone has the freedom to look. But your reference to those that don't know happens to be an assumption, which is another way of saying an unconfirmed opinion. Demanding that it is fact repeatedly will NEVER make it true! Despite THAT fact, I have no problem with you believing that 100%. Have at it! But stop proselytizing about it! Other people's opinions are THEIRS to choose with, not yours.

Henosis Sage

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Jun 11, 2015, 3:00:07 PM6/11/15

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-----

Opinions squinions - whoopie shit. Who cares about peoples' "opinions" Maddie?

WTF is wrong with you? The broken record of opinions, proof, SCATOLOGY, and lying.
That's some waking dream .. but whatever.

SEPT 2014 AND FOR THE TEN MONTHS SINCE CLAIMS MATTHEW M SHARPE ( WWW.LIGHTFORCENETWORK.COM FOR ECKANKAR )

RE: "many continue joining [ECKANKAR] and care not one whit for the plagiarisms,..."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/PICK4f52ZSo/dcCN4YfQJ5gJ

So what? Makes no difference, it's only THEIR OPINION - like arseholes Maddie,
everyone has at least one - but you operate x1000

FACT: "many continue joining ISIS and Jihadist Terrorist Groups and care not
one whit for the beheadings, and burning men alive with gasoline inside a cage.."

That's no different, it's only THEIR OPINION - it does NOT make the Islamic
Jihadi EXTREMISTS & PSYCHOPATHIC WAYS wholesome, honest, ethical, NOR the
writings of the Quran TRUE either.

NOR helpful to people seeking a genuine uplifting sound practical and healthy
spiritual path or way of BEHAVING.

THEY choose their behaviors and WORDS, where you, Twitchell, Klemp, Marman
and Clark and Loni and Jasmyn and Patti Simpson Rivinus and Gail Twitchell chose yours......,

BUT it's still only YOUR OPINION based on what you KNOW, didn't know, and what
you chose to BELIEVE is TRUE...... just another arsehole of an OPINION.

That will never make it so, so, you cannot PROVE a single thing you have said
on this board since SEPTEMBER 2014 - you are simply full of shit!

You got nothing but sophistry ... no different than Marman's assertions
BULLSHIT SOPHISTRY without any rational evidence to back it up.

Endless claims, multiple theories, hundreds of assumptions, loose conjecture,
manipulative arguments that fail the logic test, IOW ZERO SUBSTANCE !!!

---

RE:

"Another fact is that people continue to join Eckankar, in spite of having
read both David Lane's and Ford Johnson's ebooks, both of which are readily
available for free."

Lane's book is amateurish, lots of non-sequiturs, and distinct lack of
substantial hard evidence to meet the all the assertions made and the OPINIONS
expressed. He and others added more over the 30 years and filled many gaps
with previously not well known info and/or factual evidence.

Johnson's was far too off with the faeries of the Great Work ... he too made unfounded leaps like his amateurish diagnosis of "Mythomania" and also many
assumtpions including baout his ability to provide all the necessary answers people needed. He and Lane MADE MISTAKES along the way.

Got shit wrong here and there. meanwhile marman and co kept muddying the waters ... but worst of all was the WITHHOLDING OF MATERIAL AND KNOWLEDGE AND THEIR FIXED SET OF PERSONAL BELIEFS FROM THE PUBLIC ON A.R.E. AND ELSEWHERE.

The last thing Doug Marman did himself was to TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH
AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

RE: "Literally ANYONE that does a web search can find ALL of this information!"

WHAT GOOD IS IT IF IT EXTENSIVELY WRONG AND 30 YEARS OUT OF DATE LIKE THAT ??????

AND THAT THERE IS MATERIAL OUT THERE THAT PROVES BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT TWITCHELL WAS AN INTENTIONAL LIAR AND EXTREMELY MANIPULATIVE PERSON REGARDING THE TRUTH ABOUT HIMSELF, PAST, PRESENT, HIS WRITINGS, HIS EXPERINCES, HIS TERACHINGS, HIS WRITINGS .. THAT IT FAR MORE THAN PLAGIARISM BUT THE KNOWN EXTENT OF HIS PLAGIARISM AND COPYRIGHT INFRINGING BEHAVIOUR IS 100 TIMES GREATER THAN ANYHTING LANE MARMAN OR JOHNSON PROVIDED ......

THAT ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT TWITCHELL TAUGHT ABOUT ECKANKAR WAS AND IS NOT TRUE.

THAT ECKANKAR IS, HAS BEEN AN EXTREMELY CORRUPT SELF-SERVING ORGANISATION, CORPORATION AND RELIGION FOR DECADES SINCE IT WAS ESTABLISHED, THAT IT PRESENTS ITSELF UNDER FALSE PRETENSES TODAY THE SAME AS TWITCHELL DID IN THE 1960s.

THAT ANYTHING OF ANY VALUE IN ECKANKAR IS THERE FOR THE ONLY REASON THAT SOME INSPIRING AND POSITIVE WRITINGS WERE COPIED INTO ECKANKAR TEXTS - THE REST WAS BULLSHIT TWITCHELL MADE UP.

WHETHER PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY HAVE EXPERIENCES WITH ECK MASTERS IS UTTERLY IRRELEVANT TO THE FACT THAT TWITCHELL WAS AN INTENTIONALLY MANIPULATIVE LIAR WHO MADE IT ALL UP USING OTHERS TEXTS AND TEACHINGS AND IDEAS AND 90% OF THE TIME VERBATIM WORDS WRITTEN BY OTHERS NOT HIM.

THE PROOF OF TWITCHELL'S FRAUDULENT BEHAVIOR PERSISTS IN THE FACTUAL EVIDENCE AND NOT PEOPLES OPINIONS. IGNORANCE OF THE FACTS DOES NOT MAKE THE EVIDENCE VANISH.

RE:

"have ever been able to sue and have it declared illegal in any way."

Totally wrong, the matters never went to Court, and were kept confidential, but multiple COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT CLAIMS were made against ECKANKAR in the late 1970s and 1980s, and these were all settled out of Court where the Claimants GOT what they wanted by agreement with the President and/or Board of ECKANKAR

Others still have the RIGHT and the opportunity to Sue ECKANKAR today for COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT - and would win in a heart beat. Eckankar would fold, they would have NO CHOICE in it.

RE: "That will never happen regardless, but why should you take such great offense to that?"

WTF is wrong with you? Where do you get these CRAZY DELUSIONAL FANTASIES from?
There is nothing to be offended about. You're fucking stupid if you think that.

RE: "Have you never heard the phrase "to each his own."? "

YEAH WELL YOU INSIDIOUS SLIMY MANIPULATIVE LYING OBNOXIOUS DEFAMING FUCKING LOW LIFE ASSHOLE ... HAVE YOU ?????

RE: "But your reference to those that don't know happens to be an assumption, which is another way of saying an unconfirmed opinion. Demanding that it is fact repeatedly will NEVER make it true!"

AND LET THAT RING INSIDE YOUR FUCKING EARS FOR ETERNITY YOU DISGUSTING INSULTING OPINIONATED FUCKING DOG OF A PERSON THAT YOU ARE!

RE: "But stop proselytizing about it!"

GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU COWARD .... YOU STOP SPREADING LIES AND SLANDER ABOUT ME;
YOU STOP PROSTELYSING YOUR DISINFORMATION AND DISTORTIONS ABOUT PLAGIARISM AND ALL THE REST OF DISTORTIONS AND LIES BY TWITCHELL AND KLEMP AND MARMAN

WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE THAT YOU IMAGINE YOU ACTUAL KNOW ANYTHING TRUE AND CORRECT AND PROVABLE ABOUT MATTERS TWITCHELL AND ECKANKAR .... AND INCOMPETENT HISTORIANS AND AUTHORS LIKE DOUGLAS MARMAN WHOSE BOOKS ON TWITCHELL AND CHOCK FULL OF ERRORS, AND FLAWED ARGUMENTS AND THEORIES AND ASSUMPTIONS AND GROSS MANIPULATIONS USING SOPHISTRY AND AT TIMES HIS OWN STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE.

===============================================================================

RE:"Despite THAT fact, I have no problem with you believing that 100%."

HA HA YOU GUTLESS NARCISSISTIC COWARD AND DISHONOURABLE SACK OF SHIT 100% 100% 100% 100%

========================================================================

Matt Sharpe cries a river in SEPT 2014

" does not in any way prove that that Master does not exist"
and "its really NOT that big of a deal..."
and "if someone doesn't like the path, they leave. big deal!"

April 2015 Matt Sharpe is still at it with 195 posts in April so far:
" does not in any way prove that that Master does not exist"
and "its really NOT that big of a deal..."
and "if someone doesn't like the path, they leave. big deal!"
and

Patricia left you, and she won't be back! She says you're far toi addicted to google groups and finds your behavior childish...and she is correct! writing at a 3rd grade level!

and seanella is the homosexual that loves him

NONE of the above is evidence against Eckankar...you simply cannot make a religion illegal you idiot!

"Fuck yourself you dirty stinking cunt! LMAO! You're a joke!!!"

"You will see those ECK Masters when you die LMAO! And you WILL beg them to help you too!"

"Make me you drunken cirrhosis! Have you filed those charges yet?"

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!search/authormsg$3Aalt.religion.eckankar$2CeR61xROTuZEJ$20after$3A2015$2F4$2F1$20before$3A2015$2F5$2F1%7Csort:date%7Cspell:false

Henosis Sage

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Jun 11, 2015, 3:37:58 PM6/11/15

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Who is doing ALL the PROSELYTIZING ???

About 227 results for ECKANKAR on the www.lightforcenetwork.com
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site:www.lightforcenetwork.com+eckankar

LOOKS LIKE A FRINT FOR ECKANKAR THAT IS NOT UPFRONT ABOUT WHO YOU ARE AND WHY YOU ARE THERE .... IT PRESENTS ITSELF WITH FALSE PRETENSES

ARE YOU PROMOTING ECKANKAR OR NOT?

IS THAT THE PURPOSE OF THAT WEBSITE? YES OR NO?

THEN WHY ARE YOU NOT UPFRONT ABOUT IT?

DO YOU HAVE THE APPORVAL TO DO AND SAY THE THINGS YOU DO THERE BY ECKANKAR?

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MATERIAL THAT IS FALSE, UNTRUE, DISTORTED, INCORRECT, AND WRONG??? LONI? YOU? ECKANKAR?

IS THERE A SUPERVISING (or official) HIGH INITIATE OR CLERGY RUNNING OR CONTRIBUTING TO THAT SITE?

Group: Eckankar
Group Creator: SHABDA - Preceptor
Members: 27
WOW IT'S HUGE INTEREST .. NOT
http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/shabda-preceptor/eckankar-spiritual-wisdom-journal-january-2014

Group: Sant Mat
Group Creator: SHABDA - Preceptor
Members: 25
WHAT DOES LONI KNOW ABOUT SANT MAT - WHEN WAS SHE A SATSANGI IN SANT MAT???

Group: Sikhism
Group Creator: SHABDA - Preceptor
Members: 26

WHERE'S YOUR SITE MADDIE ONE ? NONE THERE ... or is there?

About 1,110 results for SHARPE
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site%3Awww.lightforcenetwork.com%20sharpe

OK THEN ... IT'S A FRONT FOR ECKANKAR .... ALL ROADS LEAD TO www.eckankar.org and a Membership form eventually .... still it really doesn't seem that much is going on there. The website stats are miniscule; it doesn't rate.

QUALITY not quantity right? LMAO~!

BUT YOU ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT ECKANKAR, IT'S HISTORY OR TWITCHELL OR HOW THEY OPERATE AND FROM WHERE THEY GET ALL THEIR MONEY FROM - OR THE CORPORATE SETUP OF ECKANKAR WHERE EVERYTHING COMES UNDER THE SINGLE CONTROL AND PROPERTY OWNERSHIP OF ONE HAROLD KLEMP - THE LIVING ECK MASTER & SUCCESSORS SOLE - ONLY ONE COMPANY OFFICER WHO COULD AT ANY TIME WIND UP ECKANKAR NONPROFIT CORPORATION, LEGALLY SEIZE ALL PROPERTY AND ASSETS, AND MOVE TO THE BAHAMAS.

NO MENTION OF 60% VERBATIM PLAGIARIZED TEXT IN DWTM .... SMALL POINT BUT, IT'S TRUE. MARMAN SAYS IT ISN;T - HE'S WRONG.

WHAT'S THE MATTER CAN'T YOU HANDLE AN ALTERNATIVE OPINION TO YOURS?

TRYING TO SHUT DOWN FREE AND OPEN DISCUSSION IN PUBLIC ABOUT A TOPIC ARE YOU?

WHY ARE YOU TELLING LIES ABOUT ME INSULTING ME RIDICULING ME AND DEFMAING INTENTIONALLY AND KNOWINGLY ???

LIKE WHAT'S WITH THAT EXACTLY? ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE OR SOMETHING, BECAUSE IT IS FUCKING CRAZY WHAT YOU AHVE BEEN DOING FOR 10 MONTHS NOW

WHERE ARE YOUR HUNDREDS OF SUPPORTERS SPEAKING UP TO BACK YOU UP AND SUPPORT YOU?

THERE ARE NONE - ZERO - NOBODY AT ALL

YOU;RE A FUCKING DELUSIONAL LIAR WHO CAN;T REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED AN HOUR AGO AT TIMES

YOU JUST JUMP ON HERE TALK ABSOLUTE INCOHERENT GARBAGE EVERY SINGLE DAY

AND INSULT AND HARASS AND STALK AND DEFAME ANYONE AND EVERYONE YOU FUCKING IDIOT

--------

THAT WEBSITE IS A DISINGENUOUS MANIPULATIVE FRONT FOR ECKANKAR - THE WORD ECKANKAR APPEARS ONLY ONCE IN THE VERY LARGE HOME PAGE - THAT'S A FACT

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INTERESTING ISN'T IT ....

Henosis Sage

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Jun 11, 2015, 3:46:10 PM6/11/15

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JUST MY OPINION OF COURSE ... THE EVIDENCE, THE FACTS, HERE AND THERE, SPEAK FOR THEMSELF

Kinpa

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Jun 11, 2015, 4:46:58 PM6/11/15

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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Awww what's the matter? You having a hard time with them? Your proofs are simply not proof...but I don't mind if you believe they are anyhow...now run along, you ought to be in bed by now shouldn't you?

>
> FACT: "many continue joining ISIS and Jihadist Terrorist Groups and care not
> one whit for the beheadings, and burning men alive with gasoline inside a cage.."
>
> That's no different, it's only THEIR OPINION - it does NOT make the Islamic
> Jihadi EXTREMISTS & PSYCHOPATHIC WAYS wholesome, honest, ethical, NOR the
> writings of the Quran TRUE either.
>
> NOR helpful to people seeking a genuine uplifting sound practical and healthy
> spiritual path or way of BEHAVING.
>
> THEY choose their behaviors and WORDS, where you, Twitchell, Klemp, Marman
> and Clark and Loni and Jasmyn and Patti Simpson Rivinus and Gail Twitchell chose yours......,
>
> BUT it's still only YOUR OPINION based on what you KNOW, didn't know, and what
> you chose to BELIEVE is TRUE...... just another arsehole of an OPINION.

>--------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for proving that you participate in religious persecution! Aren't ALL of the opinions that don't agree with you examples of "just another arsehole of an opinion." ???? LOL

> That will never make it so, so, you cannot PROVE a single thing you have said
> on this board since SEPTEMBER 2014 - you are simply full of shit!
>
> You got nothing but sophistry ... no different than Marman's assertions
> BULLSHIT SOPHISTRY without any rational evidence to back it up.
>
> Endless claims, multiple theories, hundreds of assumptions, loose conjecture,
> manipulative arguments that fail the logic test, IOW ZERO SUBSTANCE !!!

>-----------------------------------------------------
Only with your own assertions...but feel free to make a fool of yourself in public as often as you would like!

>
> ---
>
> RE:
> "Another fact is that people continue to join Eckankar, in spite of having
> read both David Lane's and Ford Johnson's ebooks, both of which are readily
> available for free."
>
> Lane's book is amateurish, lots of non-sequiturs, and distinct lack of
> substantial hard evidence to meet the all the assertions made and the OPINIONS
> expressed. He and others added more over the 30 years and filled many gaps
> with previously not well known info and/or factual evidence.
>
> Johnson's was far too off with the faeries of the Great Work ... he too made unfounded leaps like his amateurish diagnosis of "Mythomania" and also many
> assumtpions including baout his ability to provide all the necessary answers people needed. He and Lane MADE MISTAKES along the way.
>
> Got shit wrong here and there. meanwhile marman and co kept muddying the waters ... but worst of all was the WITHHOLDING OF MATERIAL AND KNOWLEDGE AND THEIR FIXED SET OF PERSONAL BELIEFS FROM THE PUBLIC ON A.R.E. AND ELSEWHERE.
>
> The last thing Doug Marman did himself was to TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH
> AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
>
> RE: "Literally ANYONE that does a web search can find ALL of this information!"
>
> WHAT GOOD IS IT IF IT EXTENSIVELY WRONG AND 30 YEARS OUT OF DATE LIKE THAT ??????
>
> AND THAT THERE IS MATERIAL OUT THERE THAT PROVES BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT TWITCHELL WAS AN INTENTIONAL LIAR AND EXTREMELY MANIPULATIVE PERSON REGARDING THE TRUTH ABOUT HIMSELF, PAST, PRESENT, HIS WRITINGS, HIS EXPERINCES, HIS TERACHINGS, HIS WRITINGS .. THAT IT FAR MORE THAN PLAGIARISM BUT THE KNOWN EXTENT OF HIS PLAGIARISM AND COPYRIGHT INFRINGING BEHAVIOUR IS 100 TIMES GREATER THAN ANYHTING LANE MARMAN OR JOHNSON PROVIDED ......

> -----------------------------------------------------------------
Is that your "just another arsehole of an opinion?" You may have your opinion, I don't mind one bit, but after a certain point it becomes obvious religious persecution and cyber bullying...things that google might easily decide to delete your accounts over, even if your country has no laws (which is why you have always persisted in doing to to people repeatedly)...Thank you SO much for making this obvious to the world here at google groups!

> THAT ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT TWITCHELL TAUGHT ABOUT ECKANKAR WAS AND IS NOT TRUE.

>----------------------------------------------------------
See? Now this is one thing you simply CAN'T prove in any way! Even things that were plagiarized are not necessarily untrue because they were plagiarized! And you have NO proof that any of these things ARE false and do NOT work! This is just you blowing more hot air about your opinions and refusing to admit that you can't prove what you claim! Not the first time and not the last either!

> THAT ECKANKAR IS, HAS BEEN AN EXTREMELY CORRUPT SELF-SERVING ORGANISATION, CORPORATION AND RELIGION FOR DECADES SINCE IT WAS ESTABLISHED, THAT IT PRESENTS ITSELF UNDER FALSE PRETENSES TODAY THE SAME AS TWITCHELL DID IN THE 1960s.

>-----------------------------------------------------
Show proof! Have ANY? That Eckankar is actually corrupt, and not that that is simply YOUR opinion of it, and that it presents itself under false pretenses at all! While you're at it, show direct evidence that no ECK Masters exist at all! I've been waiting years to see this evidence you continually claim, but no one has ever shown any!

> THAT ANYTHING OF ANY VALUE IN ECKANKAR IS THERE FOR THE ONLY REASON THAT SOME INSPIRING AND POSITIVE WRITINGS WERE COPIED INTO ECKANKAR TEXTS - THE REST WAS BULLSHIT TWITCHELL MADE UP.

>----------------------------------------------------------
Oh, now the writings that were plagiarized are "inspiring and positive?" Just above they all were false! That by your own words....and IF any of them are true for one religion or path, that proves that there is definitely some chance that it is also true for other religions! OOPS! Your double standard appears top be biting your behind now! Next show proof that Twitchell made ANY of them up! That is pure assumption and opinion, and there is NO proof of that as being factual!

> WHETHER PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY HAVE EXPERIENCES WITH ECK MASTERS IS UTTERLY IRRELEVANT TO THE FACT THAT TWITCHELL WAS AN INTENTIONALLY MANIPULATIVE LIAR WHO MADE IT ALL UP USING OTHERS TEXTS AND TEACHINGS AND IDEAS AND 90% OF THE TIME VERBATIM WORDS WRITTEN BY OTHERS NOT HIM.

>--------------------------------------------------------
So what? This is simply your opinion, however, you cannot prove ANY of it!

> THE PROOF OF TWITCHELL'S FRAUDULENT BEHAVIOR PERSISTS IN THE FACTUAL EVIDENCE AND NOT PEOPLES OPINIONS. IGNORANCE OF THE FACTS DOES NOT MAKE THE EVIDENCE VANISH.

>--------------------------------------------------------
And not accepting YOUR assumptions as fact does NOT prove those assumptions to be true to ANY degree! Keep trying however!

>
> RE:
> "have ever been able to sue and have it declared illegal in any way."
>
> Totally wrong, the matters never went to Court, and were kept confidential, but multiple COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT CLAIMS were made against ECKANKAR in the late 1970s and 1980s, and these were all settled out of Court where the Claimants GOT what they wanted by agreement with the President and/or Board of ECKANKAR

>--------------------------------------------------------------
Now you are definitely lying once again, claiming things that didn't happen! If Eckankar was never ruled to be illegal in court, then it simply isn't, no matter HOW much you wish that were the case! The fact that Eckankar settled out of court proves no such thing either, proof HAS to be direct evidence, not assumption, or hearsay, or interpretation of what events mean or imply....NONE of those things are actual evidence, and THAT is why Eckankar will never be made illegal in ANY Western country! Suck it up!

> Others still have the RIGHT and the opportunity to Sue ECKANKAR today for COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT - and would win in a heart beat. Eckankar would fold, they would have NO CHOICE in it.

>----------------------------------------------------------
And yet no one is doing that, so this again is simply your assumed opinion, and is worthless in every way! But, luckily for you, you CAN have whatever opinion you want to have! Enjoy that!

>
> RE: "That will never happen regardless, but why should you take such great offense to that?"
>
> WTF is wrong with you? Where do you get these CRAZY DELUSIONAL FANTASIES from?
> There is nothing to be offended about. You're fucking stupid if you think that.

>------------------------------------------------------
By looking at reality, Eckankar is NOT illegal and you have absolutely NO ability to affect it in any way! Tough nuts buddy! Why do YOU insist on your own "crazy delusional fantasies" ? Eckankar is legal in Australia...that must REALLY bother you! LMAO!!!!! I am not even remotely stupid, but I'm not sure anyone would say the same to you, regarding these rants!

>
> RE: "Have you never heard the phrase "to each his own."? "
>
> YEAH WELL YOU INSIDIOUS SLIMY MANIPULATIVE LYING OBNOXIOUS DEFAMING FUCKING LOW LIFE ASSHOLE ... HAVE YOU ?????

> ----------------------------------------------------------
Of course I have! You silly man-child I have stated innumerable times that you are welcomed to have whichever opinion you would like to have, but why are you completely unable to give anyone else the same??? And thank you once again for definitive proof that YOU engage daily in religious persecution, defamation, lying, name-calling, and likely any number of other things as well!

>
> RE: "But your reference to those that don't know happens to be an assumption, which is another way of saying an unconfirmed opinion. Demanding that it is fact repeatedly will NEVER make it true!"
>
> AND LET THAT RING INSIDE YOUR FUCKING EARS FOR ETERNITY YOU DISGUSTING INSULTING OPINIONATED FUCKING DOG OF A PERSON THAT YOU ARE!

>---------------------------------------------------------
Awwww stop crying seanie, I will be perfectly alright about it, I have no trouble nor do I feel threatened about you having a different opinion!

> RE: "But stop proselytizing about it!"
>
> GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU COWARD .... YOU STOP SPREADING LIES AND SLANDER ABOUT ME;
> YOU STOP PROSTELYSING YOUR DISINFORMATION AND DISTORTIONS ABOUT PLAGIARISM AND ALL THE REST OF DISTORTIONS AND LIES BY TWITCHELL AND KLEMP AND MARMAN

>-----------------------------------------------------------------
No seanie, and I am anything but a coward, I think that is what bothers you the most about me! I have spread no lies or slander about you, and I have never proselytized ANY disinformation to you or anyone! You have still never proven that Twitchell, Klemp, and Marman are liars, and by that very token you are unable to prove ANY of the above claims....ALL of that is ASSUMPTION on your part! Find direct evidence, like Mr. Twitchell saying that he created fake ECK Masters...the fact that you have never had any inner experience means nothing to anyone but yourself!

> WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE THAT YOU IMAGINE YOU ACTUAL KNOW ANYTHING TRUE AND CORRECT AND PROVABLE ABOUT MATTERS TWITCHELL AND ECKANKAR .... AND INCOMPETENT HISTORIANS AND AUTHORS LIKE DOUGLAS MARMAN WHOSE BOOKS ON TWITCHELL AND CHOCK FULL OF ERRORS, AND FLAWED ARGUMENTS AND THEORIES AND ASSUMPTIONS AND GROSS MANIPULATIONS USING SOPHISTRY AND AT TIMES HIS OWN STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE.

>-----------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you think YOU are to claim that I do NOT KNOW? Can you prove that claim? It seems that sophistry is YOUR favorite tool, you do it SO often! But you are still very hilarious to me! Thank you for the comedy routine!

>
>
> ===============================================================================
>
> RE:"Despite THAT fact, I have no problem with you believing that 100%."
>
> HA HA YOU GUTLESS NARCISSISTIC COWARD AND DISHONOURABLE SACK OF SHIT 100% 100% 100% 100%

>----------------------------------------------
Here is seanie looking at himself in his broken mirror!

>
> ========================================================================
>
>
>
>
> Matt Sharpe cries a river in SEPT 2014
>
> " does not in any way prove that that Master does not exist"
> and "its really NOT that big of a deal..."
> and "if someone doesn't like the path, they leave. big deal!"

>-----------------------------------------------------------
I see absolutely NO crying there, but I DO see me allowing everyone else to have their own opinion about things....so what was your point in posting this??

> April 2015 Matt Sharpe is still at it with 195 posts in April so far:
> " does not in any way prove that that Master does not exist"
> and "its really NOT that big of a deal..."
> and "if someone doesn't like the path, they leave. big deal!"
> and

>-----------------------------------------------------------------

And again he senselessly repeats himself without ever showing any actual direct evidence to support his claims....looks an awful LOT like defamation to me, and that religious persecution....

> Patricia left you, and she won't be back! She says you're far toi addicted to google groups and finds your behavior childish...and she is correct! writing at a 3rd grade level!
>
> and seanella is the homosexual that loves him
>
> NONE of the above is evidence against Eckankar...you simply cannot make a religion illegal you idiot!
>
> "Fuck yourself you dirty stinking cunt! LMAO! You're a joke!!!"

>----------------------------------------------------------------
No thanks seanie! But you have yourself a fine evening, what is it? 2:44 am there?

> "You will see those ECK Masters when you die LMAO! And you WILL beg them to help you too!"
>
> "Make me you drunken cirrhosis! Have you filed those charges yet?"
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!search/authormsg$3Aalt.religion.eckankar$2CeR61xROTuZEJ$20after$3A2015$2F4$2F1$20before$3A2015$2F5$2F1%7Csort:date%7Cspell:false

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the point of this? LOL

Kinpa

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> --------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice! More false and unproven accusations LOL BRING IT! That is just your OPINION, but it proves not one thing! We present ourselves with not one single false pretense, however, you can't say the same about yourself, because you present yourself under false pretenses constantly!

> ARE YOU PROMOTING ECKANKAR OR NOT?

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at all, we don't do promotion work, but we DO accept ALL spiritual paths there! This is exactly why we have a great many shamans, a Muslim priest, a Jewish rabbi, several doctors as well as some Ivy League professors, and several pagans or wiccans, amongst other spiritual groups that Christianity considers to be pagans, using that as an umbrella term....deal with it, now you are falling flat on your face...

> IS THAT THE PURPOSE OF THAT WEBSITE? YES OR NO?

>-----------------------------------------------------
Not at all, however, there ARE a lot of ECKists there as members...what of it? Does that bother you or something?

> THEN WHY ARE YOU NOT UPFRONT ABOUT IT?

----------------------------------------------------------
Upfront about what exactly? The site is non-denominational, we welcome ALL paths with the exceptions of Chaos magick and anything to do with Aleister Crowley, a thing that is in no way illegal...why do YOU have such a problem with the site? Is it because you are SO pissed off that she won't say anything to you??? LOL WEAK!

> DO YOU HAVE THE APPORVAL TO DO AND SAY THE THINGS YOU DO THERE BY ECKANKAR?

>---------------------------------------------------------------------
It is NOT an Eckankar site, therefore no approval is required, that's just how things are in the land of religious freedom, have a problem with that??

> WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MATERIAL THAT IS FALSE, UNTRUE, DISTORTED, INCORRECT, AND WRONG??? LONI? YOU? ECKANKAR?

>---------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems as if you have links from only one page, however, your claims of "FALSE, UNTRUE, DISTORTED, INCORRECT, AND WRONG" are only YOUR opinion! Get over yourself! We are not bound to say things that you agree with, we are free to say what we want to, get over that already! You can't change that even a little bit! However I'll get back to you if we decide to sue you over this diatribe...

> IS THERE A SUPERVISING (or official) HIGH INITIATE OR CLERGY RUNNING OR CONTRIBUTING TO THAT SITE?

>----------------------------------------------------------------
What is it to you? As stated, the site is NOT a part of Eckankar, it is privately owned, and if there is or is not a high initiate there, I will never give you their name, because I simply don't have to...I'm thinking that you are angry that we ALWAYS know it's you when you try to apply for an account to be able to get in and see the materials there....but that's just too bad, you will never be allowed in, regardless of what you say or do...

> Group: Eckankar
> Group Creator: SHABDA - Preceptor
> Members: 27
> WOW IT'S HUGE INTEREST .. NOT
> http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/shabda-preceptor/eckankar-spiritual-wisdom-journal-january-2014

> ---------------------------------------------------------
Having a problem with that? All of the things you are posting are from me..is there a point to this? Is this NOT online stalking? Seriously?? LMAO! OOPS! Busted yet again!

> Group: Sant Mat
> Group Creator: SHABDA - Preceptor
> Members: 25
> WHAT DOES LONI KNOW ABOUT SANT MAT - WHEN WAS SHE A SATSANGI IN SANT MAT???

>--------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not ask her? As far as I'm concerned that is none of your business, nor would it make any difference anyhow...

>
> Group: Sikhism
> Group Creator: SHABDA - Preceptor
> Members: 26
>
> WHERE'S YOUR SITE MADDIE ONE ? NONE THERE ... or is there?

>---------------------------------------------------------
You're already looking at it LOL!

> About 1,110 results for SHARPE
> https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site%3Awww.lightforcenetwork.com%20sharpe
>
> OK THEN ... IT'S A FRONT FOR ECKANKAR .... ALL ROADS LEAD TO www.eckankar.org and a Membership form eventually .... still it really doesn't seem that much is going on there. The website stats are miniscule; it doesn't rate.

>------------------------------------------------------
Another assumption! Hilarious! I see that you didn't bother to look at the right spot to see the actual member numbers, there are just over 1400, and growing on a daily basis, and your approval is just NOT required....watch that hubris of yours there buddy....are you losing sleep at night worrying over me and my site?

> QUALITY not quantity right? LMAO~!
>
> BUT YOU ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT ECKANKAR, IT'S HISTORY OR TWITCHELL OR HOW THEY OPERATE AND FROM WHERE THEY GET ALL THEIR MONEY FROM - OR THE CORPORATE SETUP OF ECKANKAR WHERE EVERYTHING COMES UNDER THE SINGLE CONTROL AND PROPERTY OWNERSHIP OF ONE HAROLD KLEMP - THE LIVING ECK MASTER & SUCCESSORS SOLE - ONLY ONE COMPANY OFFICER WHO COULD AT ANY TIME WIND UP ECKANKAR NONPROFIT CORPORATION, LEGALLY SEIZE ALL PROPERTY AND ASSETS, AND MOVE TO THE BAHAMAS.

>------------------------------------------------------------
Prove that? You can't actually see ANYTHING I'm saying about anything! Once again seanie is 100% assumption, and is unable to distinguish fact from his own deluded assumptions! And here he insists on proving that!

> NO MENTION OF 60% VERBATIM PLAGIARIZED TEXT IN DWTM .... SMALL POINT BUT, IT'S TRUE. MARMAN SAYS IT ISN;T - HE'S WRONG.

>------------------------------------------------------
The thing is, as I've said SO many times, I simply do not care! Just like I personally don't care about YOUR problem with Mr. Marman! That is entirely YOUR problem, it isn't mine! You go argue that with him if you wish to, but it doesn't concern me in any way!

> WHAT'S THE MATTER CAN'T YOU HANDLE AN ALTERNATIVE OPINION TO YOURS?

>----------------------------------------------------
Of course I can, and I tell you that almost daily! Why are you so unable to get it through your head? Afraid of accepting it? The members of my site, even those who are not at all ECKists, feel the very same way as I have stated any number of times, but you see, I don't NEED to prove that to you or anyone, and they do not have to say a word at google groups either, get over yourself, you just AREN'T that important to anyone!

-

> TRYING TO SHUT DOWN FREE AND OPEN DISCUSSION IN PUBLIC ABOUT A TOPIC ARE YOU?

>-------------------------------------------------------
I have never tried to shut down your religious persecution...YET! Who knows what the future holds however! I simply disagree with you about it, so what? Why do you have such trouble accepting that fact?

> WHY ARE YOU TELLING LIES ABOUT ME INSULTING ME RIDICULING ME AND DEFMAING INTENTIONALLY AND KNOWINGLY ???

>----------------------------------------------------
I haven't, but you have to me....I sure hope you don't choke on your own words...

> LIKE WHAT'S WITH THAT EXACTLY? ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE OR SOMETHING, BECAUSE IT IS FUCKING CRAZY WHAT YOU AHVE BEEN DOING FOR 10 MONTHS NOW

>--------------------------------------------------------
No but it seems pretty definite that YOU might be!

> WHERE ARE YOUR HUNDREDS OF SUPPORTERS SPEAKING UP TO BACK YOU UP AND SUPPORT YOU?

>------------------------------------------------------------------
They read, however I don't actually need anyone to do that, that's how it is being a strong and smart individual...you might consider trying to become one of those someday....or continue as you have been for the last decade or so...your choice, I don't have to deal with it...

> THERE ARE NONE - ZERO - NOBODY AT ALL

>-------------------------------------------------------------
That's funny because I see 1417 members there....good luck with your delusion...

> YOU;RE A FUCKING DELUSIONAL LIAR WHO CAN;T REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED AN HOUR AGO AT TIMES

>-----------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, that sounds like you...but as I have stated several times, you can have any opinion you want to have, it doesn't concern me, I don't lose sleep over what your opinion of me is...ever...

> YOU JUST JUMP ON HERE TALK ABSOLUTE INCOHERENT GARBAGE EVERY SINGLE DAY
>
> AND INSULT AND HARASS AND STALK AND DEFAME ANYONE AND EVERYONE YOU FUCKING IDIOT

>-------------------------------------------------
Yeah except that look! that's YOU doing that! Does that make you feel better or something? Accusations are not proof of anything, as is usual with you....oh well, only you have to wake up in that state, I certainly do not...

> --------
>
> THAT WEBSITE IS A DISINGENUOUS MANIPULATIVE FRONT FOR ECKANKAR - THE WORD ECKANKAR APPEARS ONLY ONCE IN THE VERY LARGE HOME PAGE - THAT'S A FACT

>---------------------------------------------
No this is simply seanie claiming that his OPINION is fact! He obviously has much trouble discerning between the two....and btw, as I said before we are not an Eckankar site, nor are we a front for anyone or anything....you might find some actual evidence of that and stop ranting and raving like the lunatic that you constantly claim me to be....you aren't doing yourself any favors here...If anyone looks, they will find that all other religions also appear on the front page a couple of times at most...so what? That proves nothing except what I just told you, we are open to ALL religions! YOU are the one who is NOT!

> 11. The Fallacy of Faith 2015 © - Matt Sharpe | Light Force ...
> www.lightforcenetwork.com/shabda.../11-fallacy-faith-2015-©-matt-sha...
> Mar 12, 2015 - The full content of this page is available to logged in members only. Member Content Rating: 5. Your rating: None Average: 5 (4 votes).
> The Benefit of Physical Incarnation - M. Sharpe | Light Force ...
> www.lightforcenetwork.com/.../benefit-physical-incarnation-m-sharpe
> Aug 9, 2013 - Many times when speaking to people, i have found that they are almost completely unaware of what a blessing their physical life actually is, ...
> 8.The Benefit of Physical Incarnation 2014 © - Matt Sharpe ...
> www.lightforcenetwork.com/.../8the-benefit-physical-incarnation-2014-...
> Nov 22, 2014 - The Benefit of Physical Incarnation 2014 © - Matt Sharpe ..... .com/shabda-preceptor/6-karma-law-cause-and-effect-%C2%A92014-matt-sharpe ...
> You've visited this page 3 times. Last visit: 17/02/15
> 2. All Magic Is For Amateurs ©2014 - Matt Sharpe | Light ...
> www.lightforcenetwork.com/.../2-all-magic-amateurs-©2014-matt-sharpe
> Mar 13, 2014 - Love: "There is no arguing with the pretenders to a divine knowledge and to a divine mission. They are possessed with the sin of pride, they ...
> Frost To Fire - Matt Sharpe | Light Force Network
> www.lightforcenetwork.com/frost-fire-matt-sharpe
> Jan 14, 2014 - Frost To Fire - Matt Sharpe. googleplus. SHABDA - Preceptor's picture Submitted by SHABDA - Preceptor on Tue, 2014-01-14 13:01.
>
> https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=site%3Awww.lightforcenetwork.com%20sharpe
>
> INTERESTING ISN'T IT ....

----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, all of MY blogs....what of it? Is there some law that prevents me from writing Eckankar blogs? No actually, there is none, just as there is no law against me writing and recording music and posting that there as well....what IS your point? Are you seriously THIS deluded? LOL Defamation my ass! YOU defame yourself!

Etznab

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Jun 11, 2015, 5:41:37 PM6/11/15

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Have your friends - whom you constantly speak for - contact and speak with me publicly here on the a.r.e. discussion board. I will communicate with them this way. O.K.?

Also, if you want the opinions of others who do not know about the plagiarisms then that can be arranged as well. What do you think? Sound fair?

Kinpa

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Jun 11, 2015, 5:57:34 PM6/11/15

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No thanks...they read everything here and they do not have the desire to speak to you about it, why are you insisting on proselytizing further? It is beginning to sound like what ECKists call "invasion of psychic space"....they read everything here almost daily, and if they WANTED to speak to you or sean, then they would have joined in, it's not at all a complicated process to create a google account, those are the facts of it man....I can't force anyone to speak to you about a thing they have chosen not to. But why do you continue to insist to find a way to do that? If they told you they agree with me, what would that change? Just as would it change anything if I told you that numerous non-ECKists feel the same way about what you both post here, and that they also interact with the supposedly fictional ECK Masters...that wouldn't change your opinion of Eckankar nor sean's, so why do you continuously seek to have it proven to you? You can state that I'm lying and you can believe that too, it makes no difference to me or to anyone at my site.

They are certain about their own spirituality and also have no problem with you living by your own opinions of the subject, that's called respecting another's free will, so why the incessant need to convert people to YOUR opinions?

Etznab

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Jun 11, 2015, 6:41:38 PM6/11/15

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I wrote that because you are constantly making sweeping statements and about what other people think with regard to the plagiarism topic, etc. Given your language and behavior here over the past many months (What you call fun, entertaining and not illegal. Including commenting about my friends and places that I go during my day; things that you posted on a public newsgroup that are not true.) I would sincerely ask to hear from them. If you don't want to ask them to come here then give me an address for the discussion board where I can go to them. Thank you.

Etznab

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Jun 11, 2015, 6:52:59 PM6/11/15

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On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 11:55:17 AM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:

You have the address for me?

Kinpa

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Jun 11, 2015, 7:04:08 PM6/11/15

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---------------------------------------------
Actually I made remarks about you and your friends, and they DID actually happen when I claimed they would, however it is completely understandable that you will not admit that, and that is fine, it served it's purpose already....remote viewing does actually exist, it makes no difference if you or sean refuse to believe that possible, or if you call anyone crazy for it, that changes nothing in any way, I KNOW what I can do...it IS worth pointing out however, that when I say some such thing to you, and it then happens, that is not in any way a mind game, which is the usual rationalization used for any such occurrence...

The fact that you KNOW I said it removes any possibility for it to affect you in any way to make it come true, conscious awareness of one playing any sort of mind game or subliminal pushing or messaging removes its ability to have ANY effect....and as far as an address, there is none. We all speak at my site, and if they are members of any other forums, I wouldn't know about that. It is not likely that either of you would be welcomed there so you might be better of to not try to apply the way sean constantly does....we always know who applies and what their intent actually is....whether or not that is some "awesome spiritual or psychic power" I wouldn't know, but it IS the case for my site. Like I said, if they WANT to speak to you, they already know where to find you...that is really the best I am able to do about that.

Etznab

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Jun 11, 2015, 7:16:05 PM6/11/15

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Jun 11, 2015, 9:03:42 PM6/11/15

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O.K. I saw this come up recently.

http://goo.gl/bTUVSK

So let's keep that in mind as a reference when seeking the truth and sorting fact from fiction. It should make things easier having the plagiarized texts, two or more sources for comparison, already illustrated and at hand. If I can contribute files also then I would be willing to search and find them.

Kinpa

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Jun 11, 2015, 9:08:12 PM6/11/15

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Stop being ridiculous, all that you showed from my site showed absolutely NO proof of what you claimed we are about or are up to! Pretty simple isn't it? No need to phone, but if it makes you feel like a big tough guy to insist i am a "pet" do what you have to do, I consider it nothing....you made numerous claims and charges, ALL of which were pure assumption on your part, with not one single piece of evidence except MY blog posts! How does the postings of ONE person prove that an entire website is a false front recruiting for Eckankar???

Are you seriously this unbalanced that you cannot see that you have proven no such thing! Have you ever looked at any of the other posts there? All sorts of Hindu posts, Buddhist, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc etc etc! You failed to prove that ANYONE there is acting as a font to recruit for Eckankar, however, there is absolutely nothing wrong with an individual writing blogs and posting them, and if others ask to learn more about Eckankar, they can.Nothing illegal or immoral or dishonest about ANY of it!

But you just go ahead and keep ranting if you want to, they're just your opinions, and you have every right to have the one you choose to hold...

Kinpa

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Jun 11, 2015, 9:24:07 PM6/11/15

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On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 12:44:33 AM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> On Friday, 12 June 2015 06:46:58 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:

> RE: "What is the point of this?"
>
> You cannot work it out by yourself.
> BECAUSE THIS IS YOU SPEAKING HERE :

> "Fuck yourself you dirty stinking cunt! LMAO! You're a joke!!!"
>

> BUT YOU ARE SO DUMB YOU THINK IT WAS ME SPEAKING ... AND THEN YOU SAY
> "No thanks seanie! But you have yourself a fine evening,..."
>
> ANYONE IS ISN'T AS FUCKED AS YOU ARE CAN FOLLOW IT WHY CAN'T YOU?
>
> YOU DO NOT REMEMBER WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN HERE SINCE SEPT 2014 BUT I HAVE DOCUMENTED ALL THAT AND NOW THIS SHIT FOR COURT .. AND UR FUCKED!
>
> RE: "and I have never proselytized ANY disinformation to you or anyone! "
>
> THEN YOU ARE A LYING DOG & AN IDIOT & A FOOL ....
>
> RE:

> Your proofs are simply not proof...

> Now this is one thing you simply CAN'T prove in any way!

> Show proof! Have ANY?

> Next show proof that Twitchell made ANY of them up!

> however, you cannot prove ANY of it!

> does NOT prove those assumptions to be true to ANY degree!

> The fact that Eckankar settled out of court proves no such thing either, proof HAS to be direct evidence

> And thank you once again for definitive proof

> Can you prove that claim?

> ....so what was your point in posting this??
>

> TOO FUCKING EASY TO PROVE IT http://goo.gl/bTUVSK
>
> ALREADY DONE AND DUSTED .. YOU'RE JUST TO MUCH OF AN ARROGANT DUMB FUCK TO LOOK
>
> IF YOU WERE NOT SO STUPID SUCH A MORON AND DISORDERED LOSER YOU'D ALREADY KNOW.
>
> (shrug)
>
> bye bye fucker ........

I have told you, I already have every file you have there! Try again, because none of that proves what you claim it does...it's sad that you are unable to find ANY direct evidence for a change, NOT plagiarisms...

Kinpa

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Jun 11, 2015, 10:02:25 PM6/11/15

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> >-----------------------------------------
Sure, but what if they did and simply refused to admit that in this public place?

> > "That is your opinion, however, proving that is not a thing you will be able to do, especially with the way things have been described. There is absolutely NO magic of any sort used by me at any time, ever. ... ."
> >
> > No magic you say? So when you make the prophecies ... what is that? Is it what you see happening, or what? I'm trying to follow what you mean.

> >---------------------------------------------------------
It means saying what a future occurrence will be before it actually happens, and being correct and accurate about it...nothing else, no different than speaking a sentence, however there are no incantations or rituals or magic words or even a prayer to some entity to give me a thing, all of which are various forms and methods of magic...I have never used magic, and I also have never seen anyone use magic and come out of it unscathed, that being by their own karma....

> > Sean and I have continuously accused you of what?

--------------------------------------------------------------
black magic, this post is you joining in with sean on it, it is he that primarily spends the most time using that accusation, as well as mini master and master in training, ALL things I have never said ANYWHERE, which is why he has absolutely NO evidence to support those accusations....

> >
> > "The fact that you and sean have continuously accused me of it is your own karmas....I will include all of that in my own correspondences, as I have not one thing to hide about anything I do. The "fictional" ECK Masters are aware of all of it, so I am not in any degree of fear about your accusations or your opinions. It is quite obvious that you do not understand me at all, so save your platitudes, I've no need of them."

> >
> > And you write that "The 'fictional' ECK Masters are aware of all of it"?

> >--------------------------------------------------------
I did, in quotes because that is YOUR opinion and not mine

> > I think you can remember that people have been reviewing the revelations of Eckankar plagiarisms, information credited to said ancient masters, dubious biographical information about Paul Twitchell, etc., in order to clarify the truth because - to some people - the truth is much more important than the opposite. Inevitably, with religious dogma and history, people not knowing for certain will imagine just about anything to fill in the blanks rather than appear ignorant and not knowing. Especially if the person supposedly in the know holds a position of authority in a church. This group has repeatedly targeted the suppositions and the allegations of truth in a critical fashion so as not to be satisfied with imaginations only, but this group has in several different ways sought the truth.
> >
> > If people's feathers get ruffled because opinions don't all agree then that is fine, but discussions can continue and should. I think the many personal attacks, the trolling and cyber bullying are distractions and only prevent a quicker discovery of truth. So let's please continue by looking at what is definitely known and provable. And let's continue having discussions.
>
> O.K. I saw this come up recently.

>----------------------------------------------------
I have no problem with any of that, however, it has gone FAR past the point of being open inquiry and discussion, it has now entered the arena of religious persecution...the persecution part happening when ever either one of you disagree and then say an insult because I do not simply join in with you on your opinions...and what I claim IS actually true, NONE of the plagiarisms, nor ALL of them, prove that ANY of the ECK Masters are fictional...that is nothing except you assuming that Twitchell did this or that because he plagiarized and claimed a Master spoke the words. It's NOT that I don't understand how you arrived at that conclusion, instead it is that there is simply NO direct evidence of that conclusion being accurate and the case in this matter...someone would need Twitchell's own writings or tapes vocal recordings of him admitting that he fabricated all of them....nothing else is direct evidence of that to show that it is NOT suspicion, it is fact...so, until such direct evidence is found, it simply cannot be claimed as an obvious fact, even if it is your opinion that it is! The constant insisting I accept it or be labeled a fool? That is religious persecution, despite the fact that you are not working on the behalf of a religion, it is this because I am a member of the religion you insist everyone should see is fake! You simply have not ever provided any direct evidence of that. I am WELL aware that it is your opinion, and as I have said, I have never denied your right to accept that point of view, I have only offered up other possibilities and potential explanations...in the end I follow my own experiences regardless of anyone's opinions of them, I need no support and that is just the way I am.

Also, let it be said that despite the opinions of some, that there is no actual inner experience or awareness, there is also not enough direct evidence to throw them all under the umbrella of various mental conditions. Everyone will believe whatever they want, but only those that seriously and openly investigate into other options will ever have even the slightest chance of knowing whether or not inner experience is real, true and provable. No one is required to accept my knowledge, because each needs to come by their own in whatever way, but if one is not able to for any reason, that simply does not excuse the name calling and false diagnoses made by persons that have no education nor degrees to be able to diagnose anything, IF you can abide by that, then I have no problem, but if it is going to continue the same way as usual, there just isn't much point discussing anything.

Sean is not in any way willing to consider anything, he claims to know as it is already, so I expect no different from him than the usual name calling and insults, all of which will be copied and kept.

> http://goo.gl/bTUVSK
>
> So let's keep that in mind as a reference when seeking the truth and sorting fact from fiction. It should make things easier having the plagiarized texts, two or more sources for comparison, already illustrated and at hand. If I can contribute files also then I would be willing to search and find them.

I have stated several times that I already copied all of the files there, and I have copies, so those were never not considered, I just don't particularly care because of the fact I have stated so many times, plagiarism proves only plagiarism, not anything else. Direct evidence will always be required for any such things.

Etznab

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Jun 11, 2015, 10:40:32 PM6/11/15

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People who don't believe what you believe are therefore persecuting you and your religion?

I think you are such a liar to pretend this is all fun, entertaining and an endless form of amusement for you while at the same time you whimper about religious persecution, people disagreeing and insulting you.

Sean and I (and others) have cited example after example to show why we ask the questions, or hold the suspicions and beliefs that we do. It is not all empty boasting. In fact it took a lot of time to gather and illustrate all the reference material so that people could look at the sources side by side and have greater clarity about what was plagiarism and what was not.

Have you done any of that work? Or did you copy the work that other people did?

Recently I found example after example of new plagiarisms that were not here on this group, not in any book, and not listed by you. This is actual physical evidence that people can look at and is not the same as believing by faith, or believing according to what another person said they experienced. No. It is what each person can look at in black and white.

For many months I listened to you already tell me how it, the plagiarism, is only plagiarism and so many people know about it and don't care. Well, today I began taking steps to let other people look at the plagiarisms and the debates about whether certain masters are fictional, or not. Hopefully some of the people will be hearing about these things for the first time, so we can now have some independent observations.

I think this can be good for our discussions. What do you think?

Henosis Sage

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Jun 11, 2015, 11:17:13 PM6/11/15

at that idea, as a ridiculous explanation. [... .]"

There are also source documents on the physical plane that show plagiarism; and words (as if) put in the mouths of Eckankar masters like Rebazar Tarzs, etc.

Henosis Sage

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Nov 20, 2015, 12:28:02 AM11/20/15

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DOUG: "But after three times I just figured it's one of those strange

misalignments that come from two people thinking from two different viewpoints."

Not strange at all when one is a delusional psychotic with a head full of lies.

ETZNAB: Paul Twitchell and "Eckankar" - through all of the borrowing, the

copying, the paraphrasing, the plagiarizing ... whether known or unknown ...
the changes of names, etc.

Tsk tsk, you overlooked stating the obvious::

COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT and INTENTIONAL FRAUD mixed with GULLIBLE PEOPLE who were Intentionally LIED to by Paul Twitchell, Gail Twitchell, Darwin Gross,
Patti Simpson-Rivinus, Harold Klemp, Doug Marman and a conga line of others.

Marman is an Idiot and a Duplicitous Fraud - it's that simple

Henosis Sage

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Nov 20, 2015, 12:31:25 AM11/20/15

to

On Friday, 20 November 2015 15:21:42 UTC+11, Etznab wrote:

>
> This is very telling and I think supports the positions of many other people, both Eckists and former Eckists.
>
> "[...] He [Harold Klemp] was merely saying that proof of Paul's plagiarism could be found in the Source documents on the Astral Plane, which are records that can't be altered. I think you got it backwards.
>
> "The odd thing about this is, I remember Harold once mentioning that when Darwin
> had been confronted with the similarity between The Far Country and The Path of
> The Masters, Darwin had commented that Paul had gotten this material from the
> inner with Rebazar Tarzs, and Julian Johnson probably did too. Harold scoffed
> at that idea, as a ridiculous explanation. [... .]"
>
> There are also source documents on the physical plane that show plagiarism; and words (as if) put in the mouths of Eckankar masters like Rebazar Tarzs, etc.

THOUSANDS OF DOCUMENTS - HUNDREDS OF BOOKS - NO ASTRAL LIBRARY NOR LIES
FROM PSYCHOPATHS SUCH AS KLEMP OR MARMAN ARE REQUIRED - just two eyes and
a functional brain is all that is needed.

Some simply do not possess the latter.

Kinpa

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Nov 20, 2015, 12:39:17 AM11/20/15

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Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.

Report not abuse

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have completely misunderstood what was said, and now you attempt to "frame" it in the way that is most convenient for you....I am not in any way responsible for whatever may "seem to be" to you, you alone are responsible for that. My position is in no way secretive, and you know that too...

> Sean and I have done extensive research, coming up with additional plagiarism examples not anyplace made public before (if you find another place then just include the date and place).
>
> Don't you like the "position" we took for sharing and educating others about source material? Or, are you just bent on personal attacks and name calling to prop up your insecure ego?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don't flatter yourselves so....your positions are irrelevant to me, I simply do not care, nor is my ego insecure or in need of propping up, it is just an ego, as is yours and sean's. I cannot be certain that either of you are even aware of what is ego and what is not or is beyond ego....I was never bent on personal attacks either, that is merely your supposition, as well as forgetting to include the fact that whatever I might have said at any point before, is not necessarily the same as what I say to you now, or even recently...

I'm trying to be nice, but I also have to be serious here. The extent you take to deny responsibility for your actions shows extreme insecurity on your part and a very fragile ego.

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have never denied any responsibility, this is your own insecurity and your own fragile ego....while you can certainly spend all the time you would like trying to create situations about me to make yourself feel better, the truth is, that I simply piss you off regardless of what I actually say....while you and sean claim to have done important research, that simply isn't the case, because te simple fact is, that many do not agree with either of you, nor do they consider plagiarism important either. While you both do not have to acknowledge that, you still can never change it. THAT is what truly bothers ou about it, you BELIEVE that your assumptions are accurate and correct, but they are still nothing more than assumptions that you cannot prove. Your research has never proven that no ECK Masters exist, nor does it prove that any experience that any has with an of them is a false mental creation or a dream. That is simply what you both CHOOSE to believe, and you do not take seriously anyone that disagrees with you....

> Try loving the truth. I think that would be a better path for you compared with all the hoodoo guru bells and whistles ... including assorted shamans and mixed nuts.

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I honestly don't think you know enough about me, Eckankar, or Spiritual life by whatever terms to be deciding what would be a" better path" for me, but I would recommend that you do not speak of shamans, they tend to hear that, as do black magicians....you would do better to concern yourself with your own path, and also gaining a greater degree of actual truth rather than insisting that unproven assumptions are truths...they are not...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In my opinion, you still don't know any truth...plagiarism does not even remotely encompass any truth...you have a considerable amount of work to do before you can speak .....also, a great many know the "truth" that you claim to have...you assume that a great many are as of yet unaware of the plagiarisms, but this is not so....you might consider taking a public poll somewhere outside of that yahoo group. Do ACTUAL research concerning what people know or do not know...none of what you both ave gone on about for years now is unavailable to anyone, ALL of it can be easily found on the net....look around for yourself....it gets uncomfortable to see that people still join Eckankar regardless of Paul Twitchell's plagiarisms.....why is that? Not getting what you feel is your due??