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SGI-USA Leadership Manual with commentary
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Mark Rogow
Sep 21, 2018, 9:13:34 PM9/21/18
to
SGI-USA Leadership Manual with commentary
https://www.sgi-usa.org/memberresources/leaders/manuals.php
All from Group Leader to Zone Leader must contribute within one year. All leaders must subscribe [buy] publications.
Higher level leaders receive donations [salaries from the contributions of members and lower level leaders].
15 comments:
Mudpie Boi March 29, 2016 at 12:03 PM
I'm loving the $20 "processing fee" (selling price) for the standard Gohonzon but that someone also has to stump up another $30 for a world tribute subscription, which would then be $50.
But then if you want a bigger model, the "processing fee" (they'll sell it to you for) $100, because of course that extra inch of scroll area all round involves an extra $50 worth of "processing" (fair's fair now, we don't want to incur a cost to the SGI now do we.
And of course they're not selling you anything (coz that wouldn't be right now), just "processing", covering their costs, which handily means that if you "voluntarily" (you say goodbye to the org or "involuntarily" (they kick you out) leave the SGI, although you have to give your Gohonzon back, you won't get a refund. Hmm...
I'll give the UK org their due, I never had to pay anything to have any of the mandala's "processed" apart from the first which was given by the priesthood. That was a reasonable cost and a fair contribution towards the air fare of someone who bothered to come to half way round the world to give it to me personally in a hall that got rented from an outside org. I don't know if that's the same now. But then I guess its what the market will bear, the UK is very different. They'd have had no members here if they'd tried to rip people off "processing" their mandalas.
ReplyDelete
Mudpie Boi March 29, 2016 at 12:16 PM
Oh I wonder if anyone mentioned this to the "mentor" or the rest if the SGI leadership?
"Refrain from using religious activities to involve the organisation or it'd members in religious activities" page 63.
The "mentor" is on record stating his involvement in such (Chanting Millions BBC - You Tube it) and then of course he got (unfairly boo hoo) locked up for electoral fraud ( for a few hours b but was being persecuted for his faith (eh?!?). Oh and Komeito Party was established by SGI...him, he'll have to be involuntarily exited I think and the mandala has to be returned too remember. No refund either...
How do the leaders who read this manual not notice the glaring inconsistencies
Mudpie Boi March 29, 2016 at 12:34 PM
Oh and my absolute favourite (a whooping double bind if ever there was) "Study and apply the Writings of Nichiren Daishonin and guidance of President Ikeda to deepen my faith and understanding of Nichiren Buddhism." (Also page 63). Good luck with that then, since they teach different things poor SGI members have been set an impossible task and when there's the inevitable conflict between what Nichiren and the Gosho teach and what the "Mentor" teaches, who they gonna side with? Not Nichiren for sure, they'll go for the "Mentor's" apparently superior understanding, doubt their own understanding and faculties and deviate from Nichiren 's path and the Lotus Sutra, suffering in the process. And they will be expected to side with the "Mentor" and doubt their understanding of they will be "involuntarily exited", especially if they question too loudly (because that would disrupt the harmony of the org and "faith" (in the "Mentor") they are paying for the privilege of having - an "involuntarily exitable" offence. (No refunds and give the mandala back).
Thank heavens I left (lool and resisted the "encouragement" to stay - apparently I'm gonna miss them - I don't, nice as the local folks were and still are - the Org. though - nope.)
ReplyDelete
Mark Rogow March 29, 2016 at 5:05 PM
Having regained your power of critical thinking, you have emerged from the earth and gained that which you least expected. Congratulations!
ReplyDelete
kevinhiggins85March 30, 2016 at 8:43 AM
In Sept. 2012, the SGI-USA Boston "Region Personnel Committee" issued me a letter, sent, by Registered mail- citing me for "violations" "SGI USA Charter" Chapter 11,"Article 72, Article 73 Paragraph b:"Conduct intended to either 1)damage the reputation of SGI-USA or 2) harm or undermine the interests of SGI-USA
~Katie
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 8:46 AM
I had sent a few emails to local leaders questioning various practices and behaviors . My notice of *disciplinary action* official letter was signed by three leaders I barely knew. None of the leaders I had emailed had responded after 4-5 months. I had let the matters drop-- was not attending meetings anyway
~Katie
ReplyDelete
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 8:51 AM
The response I wrote and mailed to every member of the Boston Region Board was ignored-- I was left assuming that my *suspended membership* has, in fact, been terminated.
This was a blessing-- to be booted out (for the third time in Boston) reaffirmed to me that I had indeed been practicing with *slanders* of the True Teaching.
4 years journey to this web site-- and my purified altar-- and a deep sense of appreciation, has lead me to believe that rebuking this slander and caring deeply for those who are being harmed by SGI, is absolutely part of correct practice.
~Katie
kevinhiggins, March 30, 2016 at 9:02 AM
P.S. Questioning the leaders themselves about the behavior or the practices of any leader in SGI USA is *grounds* for disciplinary action--
THIS is SGI USA a decade after Andy and the IRG engaged top leaders on vital points regarding democratizing SGI USA as per Pres IKEDA'S guidance (for crying out loud)
Please note: There was no *due process* involved in my Final notice. In 1998, my district was disbanded by the same Board- citing my *insubordination*
I have written letters to the top leaders, even Daisaku Ikeda regarding these issues-- no response directly to me was ever issued.
I do not *disparage* any of these leaders, but with regard to Pres. Ikeda, he is absolutely incorrect in assigning *sacred* status o SGI. Whenever I read his declarations in that vein, I cringe.
~Katie
Mark Rogow March 30, 2016 at 2:24 PM
hi Katie. I disparage every single SGI leader above Group Chief but reserve special disparagement for the double-tongued mentor and his top lieutenants.
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 4:23 PM
Is disparagement "ok" in the latter day of the Law practice of shakubuku, then?
I have been criticized for noting that although Fukyo was pelted with tiles for bowing to everyone as he recited a verse of the Lotus Sutra, no one would likely be attacked, much less persecuted for bowing to "everyone" in this day and age.-- So, I have suggested that the bowing to everyone thing is not correct in our time.
Nichiren seems to use Bodhisattva Never Disparaging as a point of comparison to his own practice --which to me, has meant that if you propagate the True Law as it is taught, you will be attacked, persecuted-- NOT that their practices were the same.
Again and again I have been admonished for *disparaging* remarks about leaders--BY leaders who claim I am not "getting the point of Nichiren's references to Fukyo" ---
P.S. I never made it about "Unit chief"-- a short- lived experience at that.
~Katie
Mark Rogow March 30, 2016 at 7:51 PM
SGI never teaches that those who persecuted Fukyo: For a thousand kalpas underwent great suffering in the Avici Hell. After they had finished paying for their offenses, they once again encountered the Bodhisattva Never Disparaging and attained Enlightenment. What do you think? Is not passing 1000 kalpas in the Avici Hell a form of strict shakubuku.
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 8:48 PM
SGI also never teaches that Fukyo's practice accorded with a different time. Aligning themselves with corrupt secular institutions, securing personal reward and significant monetary gain is an example of the benefit of SGI leaders "peaceful practices".
Admonishing members for minor infractions amounts to maintaining a status quo, superficially peaceful organization that serves the personal interests of top leaders.
Strict shakubuku is completely left out of SGI's philosophical agenda. It is common to hear the term, shakubuku, in reference to introducing someone to the practice and SGI. When, in fact, the method was shoju, laced with promise of treasures of the storehouse, mind and body, that persuaded the *new member* to join SGI.
Mark Rogow March 30, 2016 at 8:03 PM
When a person’s offense is minor, admonishment is sometimes called for, but at other times it may be unnecessary, for there are those who may correct themselves without being told. Reprove a person for slander when necessary, so that you can forestall for both of you the consequences of an offense. Then, you should forgive that person. The point is that even minor slanders may lead to serious ones, and then the effects one must suffer would be far worse. This is [what Chang-an means when he writes], “One who rids the offender of evil is acting as his parent.”
Many such examples of slander are also found among Nichiren’s disciples and lay believers. I am sure that you have heard about the lay priest Ichinosawa. Privately he is considered one of Nichiren’s followers, but publicly he still remains in the Nembutsu school. What should be done about his next life? Nevertheless, I have presented him with the ten volumes of the Lotus Sutra.
SGI members fall into the category of those who continuously slander the Law and thus are to be continuously reproved. They pretend to be foremost in upholding the precepts and I continuously point out how they break the precepts [of preserving the Law and doctrines of Nichiren].. I do this for their sake. I will forgive them when they correct their mistakes. The strange thing is that they overlook major slander through their interfaith initiatives and strictly admonish their own members for the most minor of infractions.
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 8:49 PM
In pursuit of minor good, they commit great evil...
Mark Rogow March 31, 2016 at 8:11 PM
True true!
https://www.sgi-usa.org/memberresources/leaders/manuals.php
All from Group Leader to Zone Leader must contribute within one year. All leaders must subscribe [buy] publications.
Higher level leaders receive donations [salaries from the contributions of members and lower level leaders].
15 comments:
Mudpie Boi March 29, 2016 at 12:03 PM
I'm loving the $20 "processing fee" (selling price) for the standard Gohonzon but that someone also has to stump up another $30 for a world tribute subscription, which would then be $50.
But then if you want a bigger model, the "processing fee" (they'll sell it to you for) $100, because of course that extra inch of scroll area all round involves an extra $50 worth of "processing" (fair's fair now, we don't want to incur a cost to the SGI now do we.
And of course they're not selling you anything (coz that wouldn't be right now), just "processing", covering their costs, which handily means that if you "voluntarily" (you say goodbye to the org or "involuntarily" (they kick you out) leave the SGI, although you have to give your Gohonzon back, you won't get a refund. Hmm...
I'll give the UK org their due, I never had to pay anything to have any of the mandala's "processed" apart from the first which was given by the priesthood. That was a reasonable cost and a fair contribution towards the air fare of someone who bothered to come to half way round the world to give it to me personally in a hall that got rented from an outside org. I don't know if that's the same now. But then I guess its what the market will bear, the UK is very different. They'd have had no members here if they'd tried to rip people off "processing" their mandalas.
ReplyDelete
Mudpie Boi March 29, 2016 at 12:16 PM
Oh I wonder if anyone mentioned this to the "mentor" or the rest if the SGI leadership?
"Refrain from using religious activities to involve the organisation or it'd members in religious activities" page 63.
The "mentor" is on record stating his involvement in such (Chanting Millions BBC - You Tube it) and then of course he got (unfairly boo hoo) locked up for electoral fraud ( for a few hours b but was being persecuted for his faith (eh?!?). Oh and Komeito Party was established by SGI...him, he'll have to be involuntarily exited I think and the mandala has to be returned too remember. No refund either...
How do the leaders who read this manual not notice the glaring inconsistencies
Mudpie Boi March 29, 2016 at 12:34 PM
Oh and my absolute favourite (a whooping double bind if ever there was) "Study and apply the Writings of Nichiren Daishonin and guidance of President Ikeda to deepen my faith and understanding of Nichiren Buddhism." (Also page 63). Good luck with that then, since they teach different things poor SGI members have been set an impossible task and when there's the inevitable conflict between what Nichiren and the Gosho teach and what the "Mentor" teaches, who they gonna side with? Not Nichiren for sure, they'll go for the "Mentor's" apparently superior understanding, doubt their own understanding and faculties and deviate from Nichiren 's path and the Lotus Sutra, suffering in the process. And they will be expected to side with the "Mentor" and doubt their understanding of they will be "involuntarily exited", especially if they question too loudly (because that would disrupt the harmony of the org and "faith" (in the "Mentor") they are paying for the privilege of having - an "involuntarily exitable" offence. (No refunds and give the mandala back).
Thank heavens I left (lool and resisted the "encouragement" to stay - apparently I'm gonna miss them - I don't, nice as the local folks were and still are - the Org. though - nope.)
ReplyDelete
Mark Rogow March 29, 2016 at 5:05 PM
Having regained your power of critical thinking, you have emerged from the earth and gained that which you least expected. Congratulations!
ReplyDelete
kevinhiggins85March 30, 2016 at 8:43 AM
In Sept. 2012, the SGI-USA Boston "Region Personnel Committee" issued me a letter, sent, by Registered mail- citing me for "violations" "SGI USA Charter" Chapter 11,"Article 72, Article 73 Paragraph b:"Conduct intended to either 1)damage the reputation of SGI-USA or 2) harm or undermine the interests of SGI-USA
~Katie
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 8:46 AM
I had sent a few emails to local leaders questioning various practices and behaviors . My notice of *disciplinary action* official letter was signed by three leaders I barely knew. None of the leaders I had emailed had responded after 4-5 months. I had let the matters drop-- was not attending meetings anyway
~Katie
ReplyDelete
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 8:51 AM
The response I wrote and mailed to every member of the Boston Region Board was ignored-- I was left assuming that my *suspended membership* has, in fact, been terminated.
This was a blessing-- to be booted out (for the third time in Boston) reaffirmed to me that I had indeed been practicing with *slanders* of the True Teaching.
4 years journey to this web site-- and my purified altar-- and a deep sense of appreciation, has lead me to believe that rebuking this slander and caring deeply for those who are being harmed by SGI, is absolutely part of correct practice.
~Katie
kevinhiggins, March 30, 2016 at 9:02 AM
P.S. Questioning the leaders themselves about the behavior or the practices of any leader in SGI USA is *grounds* for disciplinary action--
THIS is SGI USA a decade after Andy and the IRG engaged top leaders on vital points regarding democratizing SGI USA as per Pres IKEDA'S guidance (for crying out loud)
Please note: There was no *due process* involved in my Final notice. In 1998, my district was disbanded by the same Board- citing my *insubordination*
I have written letters to the top leaders, even Daisaku Ikeda regarding these issues-- no response directly to me was ever issued.
I do not *disparage* any of these leaders, but with regard to Pres. Ikeda, he is absolutely incorrect in assigning *sacred* status o SGI. Whenever I read his declarations in that vein, I cringe.
~Katie
Mark Rogow March 30, 2016 at 2:24 PM
hi Katie. I disparage every single SGI leader above Group Chief but reserve special disparagement for the double-tongued mentor and his top lieutenants.
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 4:23 PM
Is disparagement "ok" in the latter day of the Law practice of shakubuku, then?
I have been criticized for noting that although Fukyo was pelted with tiles for bowing to everyone as he recited a verse of the Lotus Sutra, no one would likely be attacked, much less persecuted for bowing to "everyone" in this day and age.-- So, I have suggested that the bowing to everyone thing is not correct in our time.
Nichiren seems to use Bodhisattva Never Disparaging as a point of comparison to his own practice --which to me, has meant that if you propagate the True Law as it is taught, you will be attacked, persecuted-- NOT that their practices were the same.
Again and again I have been admonished for *disparaging* remarks about leaders--BY leaders who claim I am not "getting the point of Nichiren's references to Fukyo" ---
P.S. I never made it about "Unit chief"-- a short- lived experience at that.
~Katie
Mark Rogow March 30, 2016 at 7:51 PM
SGI never teaches that those who persecuted Fukyo: For a thousand kalpas underwent great suffering in the Avici Hell. After they had finished paying for their offenses, they once again encountered the Bodhisattva Never Disparaging and attained Enlightenment. What do you think? Is not passing 1000 kalpas in the Avici Hell a form of strict shakubuku.
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 8:48 PM
SGI also never teaches that Fukyo's practice accorded with a different time. Aligning themselves with corrupt secular institutions, securing personal reward and significant monetary gain is an example of the benefit of SGI leaders "peaceful practices".
Admonishing members for minor infractions amounts to maintaining a status quo, superficially peaceful organization that serves the personal interests of top leaders.
Strict shakubuku is completely left out of SGI's philosophical agenda. It is common to hear the term, shakubuku, in reference to introducing someone to the practice and SGI. When, in fact, the method was shoju, laced with promise of treasures of the storehouse, mind and body, that persuaded the *new member* to join SGI.
Mark Rogow March 30, 2016 at 8:03 PM
When a person’s offense is minor, admonishment is sometimes called for, but at other times it may be unnecessary, for there are those who may correct themselves without being told. Reprove a person for slander when necessary, so that you can forestall for both of you the consequences of an offense. Then, you should forgive that person. The point is that even minor slanders may lead to serious ones, and then the effects one must suffer would be far worse. This is [what Chang-an means when he writes], “One who rids the offender of evil is acting as his parent.”
Many such examples of slander are also found among Nichiren’s disciples and lay believers. I am sure that you have heard about the lay priest Ichinosawa. Privately he is considered one of Nichiren’s followers, but publicly he still remains in the Nembutsu school. What should be done about his next life? Nevertheless, I have presented him with the ten volumes of the Lotus Sutra.
SGI members fall into the category of those who continuously slander the Law and thus are to be continuously reproved. They pretend to be foremost in upholding the precepts and I continuously point out how they break the precepts [of preserving the Law and doctrines of Nichiren].. I do this for their sake. I will forgive them when they correct their mistakes. The strange thing is that they overlook major slander through their interfaith initiatives and strictly admonish their own members for the most minor of infractions.
kevinhiggins March 30, 2016 at 8:49 PM
In pursuit of minor good, they commit great evil...
Mark Rogow March 31, 2016 at 8:11 PM
True true!
Chas.
Sep 22, 2018, 12:51:38 AM9/22/18
to
Mark Rogow and Katie Higgins Gloating Over the Prostrate Bodies of the Buddhas In the Ten Directions with the Lotus Sutra Clutched In Their Cold, Dead Hands +
On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 10:41:42 PM UTC-7, Mark Rogow wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 12:55:19 PM UTC-5, Chas. wrote:
> > Choosing a Neutral Judge +
> >
> > On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 7:12:16 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> > >
> > > Formal doctrinal debate is decided on relevance of arguments to direct quotes from authentic scripture.
> > >
> > > You lose, @chas because you spew arbitrary views and disregard the evidence shown to you that it is you who is not in accord with Nichiren and clueless about the Lotus Sutra. Your links and conjectures are pretty lame--- but the fact that you don't seem to know how to participate in a doctrinal debate is laughable--.
> > >
> > > The "all too human Shakaymuni" did not preach the "Life Span chapter", the Essential teaching that Nichiren placed faith in and lived! That would be the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha-- as described quite clearly in the Kanjin Honzon Sho-- extant in Nichiren's own hand, written in Classical Chinese, And it is the Eternal Shakyamuni whose image is the Gohonzon.
> > >
> > > Specific quotes from the Kanjn Honzon Sho have been posted multiple times. Sincere practitioners of Nichiren's Lotus sutra Buddhism read the entire Gosho-- which apparently you have not!
> > >
> > > ~Katie
> >
> > Any self-serving literal interpretation of the Gosho that you wield as a weapon against the eternal truth of the supreme teaching of the Lotus Sutra has been declared "not to be accepted" by Nichiren Daishonin:
> >
> > From "The Opening of the Eyes," WND I, p. 263:
> > https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-237
> >
> > . . . I must observe sadly that, although it would be simple
> > . . . enough to point out the error of the views propounded by
> > . . . these men, if I did so, the people of today would not even
> > . . . look in my direction. They would go on in their erroneous
> > . . . ways and, in the end, would slander me to the ruler of the
> > . . . country and put my life in jeopardy. Nevertheless, our
> > . . . merciful father Shakyamuni Buddha, when he faced his end in
> > . . . the grove of sal trees, stated as his dying instructions
> > . . . that we are to “rely on the Law and not upon persons.” “Not
> > . . . relying upon persons” means that when persons of the first,
> > . . . second, third, and fourth ranks preach, even though they
> > . . . are bodhisattvas such as Universal Worthy and Manjushrī who
> > . . . have attained the stage of near-perfect enlightenment, IF
> > . . . THEY DO NOT PREACH WITH THE SUTRA IN HAND, THEN THEY ARE
> > . . . NOT TO BE ACCEPTED.
> >
> > Your entire set of arguments has no doctrinal basis because of that. You lose, and that means you lose big time, countless kalpas.
> >
> > Let's choose a referee/judge that is neutral, unlike cael...@gmail.com, your shill.
> >
> > I choose Noel, who has a low opinion of the SGI, Sensei and myself.
> >
> > Let "Noel the Neutral" judge who is winning this rhetorical battle. If it goes against me, I'll live with that.
> >
> > -Chas.
> > __________________________________________
> >
> > On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 3:15:38 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> > > Never mind Nichiren’s original writings ?
> > >
> > > Spoken like a chip off the ‘ol kanto Tendai hobos who corrupted the writings you follow!!
> > >
> > > ~ Katie
> >
> > Gosh, your hatred of the Lotus Sutra knows no bounds: You would literally interpret the Gosho in a self-serving way to call the Lotus Sutra a pack of lies, Shakyamuni a serial prevaricator and Nichiren Daishonin an accuser of both.
> >
> > Unbelievable.
> >
> > This is why I chose Noel to referee this debate: he gets this point and has not lost touch with the truth of the Lotus Sutra yet: as you Mark Rogow, Katie Higgins, and all of Nichiren Shu have.
> >
> > I think Iain might be on my side in this debate as well ... he was the one that called me on my trusting the Gosho as mentor, and the truth, when it clearly must bow to the Lotus Sutra and not the other way around. I admitted my error and that he was correct in this case: let's see if he backs you on this dispute now and has changed his colors: he was the one that called Nichiren Daishonin in writing the Gosho a "latter day commentator."
> >
> > Here is all that debate for Iain to read if he should decide to comment:
> >
> > The Stake In The Heart of the Vampire Teaching of Katie Higgins, Mark Rogow and their Mentor In Life, Jackie Stone +
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/pI7YPM1RJS4/_7b_OFEXCwAJ
> >
> > -Chas.
> > __________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Quoting from "A Ship to Cross the Sea of Suffering" - Writings of Nichiren Daishonin p. 33 ...
> >
> > A passage from the "Teacher of the Law" chapter reads: "If one of these good men or good women [in the time after I have passed into extinction is able to secretly expound the Lotus Sutra to one person, even one phrase of it, then you should know that] he or she is the envoy of the Thus Come One." This means that anyone who teaches others even a single phrase of the Lotus Sutra is the envoy of the Thus Come One, whether that person be priest or layman, nun or laywoman. You are already a lay practitioner and therefore one of the "good men" described in the sutra. One who listens to even a sentence or phrase of the sutra and cherishes it deep in one's heart may be likened to a ship that crosses the sea of the sufferings of birth and death. The Great Teacher Miao-lo stated, "Even a single phrase cherished deep in one's heart will without fail help one reach the opposite shore. To ponder one phrase and practice it is to exercise navigation." Only the ship of Myoho-renge-kyo enables one to cross the sea of the sufferings of birth and death.
>
> You sound EXACTLY like the one you hate Chas:
>
> "So if one believes the Daishonin meant exactly what he said, one will fall into hell." -- Nittatsu Shonin
>
> The Supreme Votary states differently...
>
> “Depend upon the teaching, not upon the people."
>
> “The Buddha says determining the future, “Depend upon the teaching, not upon the people. Bodhisattva Nagarjuna says, “If one depends upon the scripture it is a correct argument; if one does not depend upon the scripture it is an incorrect argument.” T’ien-t’ai says, “Again, if it conforms to the scripture, quote and use it. If there is no corresponding sentence or corresponding meaning, then one should not believe and accept. ” Dengyo says, “Depend upon what the Buddha taught, not upon the oral tradition.” If one follows these scriptures, treatises and commentaries, then one should not base oneself on dreams. Once should only treasure the passages in the scriptures and treatises…” -- The Selection of the Time
>
> "Answer: Are those who have received the teachings directly from their teacher invariably free from error, while those who appear in later ages and examine and clarify these teachings are to be regarded as worthless? If so, then should we throw away the sutras and instead rely upon the four ranks of bodhisattvas? Should a person throw away the deed of transfer received from his father and mother and instead depend upon oral transmissions? Are the written commentaries of the Great Teacher Dengyo so much trash, and the oral traditions handed down from the Great Teacher Jikaku the only guide to truth?" -- On Attaining Buddhhood in One's Present Form.
>
> "It is also laid down that one should “rely on sutras that are complete and final and not on those that are not complete and final.” We must therefore look carefully among the sutras to determine which arecomplete and final and which are not and put our faith in the former Bodhisattva Nāgārjuna in his Commentary on the Ten Stages Sutra states, “Do not rely on treatises that distort the sutras; rely on those that are faithful to the sutras.” The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai says, “That which accords with the sutras is to be written down and made available. But put no faith in anything that in word or meaning fails to do so.” The Great Teacher Dengyō says, “Depend upon the preachings of the Buddha, and do not put faith in traditions handed down orally.” Enchin, also known as the Great Teacher Chishō, says, “In transmitting the teachings, rely on the written words [of scriptures].” -- Opening the Eyes
>
> "I win, I win" -- Chas
>
> I don't think so.
>
> Mark
But you don't depend upon the true teaching that is the Lotus Sutra, according to Nichiren Daishonin. In fact, you elevate the Gosho to the status of true teaching OVER THE PROSTRATE BODIES OF THE BUDDHAS IN THE TEN DIRECTIONS WITH THE LOTUS SUTRA CLUTCHED IN THEIR COLD, DEAD HANDS.
Only the supreme and true teaching of the Lotus Sutra is complete and final, the Gosho does not even approach that status.
Hence any valid interpretation of the Gosho must not call into question a single character or phrase of the Lotus Sutra, the Gosho must bow to the Lotus Sutra and not the other way around.
If Nichiren Daishonin is not lying in the Gosho (and he is not) then any difference with the Lotus Sutra falls under the category of "expedient means": partial truth leading to the whole, eternal and universal truth of the Lotus Sutra. It is because of expedient means, used by all the Buddhas including Nichiren Daishonin (whom YOU SAY cannot be a Buddha, but who is in fact, the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law), that they ACTUALLY DO MEAN WHAT THEY SAY.
-Chas.
On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 10:41:42 PM UTC-7, Mark Rogow wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 12:55:19 PM UTC-5, Chas. wrote:
> > Choosing a Neutral Judge +
> >
> > On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 7:12:16 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> > >
> > > Formal doctrinal debate is decided on relevance of arguments to direct quotes from authentic scripture.
> > >
> > > You lose, @chas because you spew arbitrary views and disregard the evidence shown to you that it is you who is not in accord with Nichiren and clueless about the Lotus Sutra. Your links and conjectures are pretty lame--- but the fact that you don't seem to know how to participate in a doctrinal debate is laughable--.
> > >
> > > The "all too human Shakaymuni" did not preach the "Life Span chapter", the Essential teaching that Nichiren placed faith in and lived! That would be the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha-- as described quite clearly in the Kanjin Honzon Sho-- extant in Nichiren's own hand, written in Classical Chinese, And it is the Eternal Shakyamuni whose image is the Gohonzon.
> > >
> > > Specific quotes from the Kanjn Honzon Sho have been posted multiple times. Sincere practitioners of Nichiren's Lotus sutra Buddhism read the entire Gosho-- which apparently you have not!
> > >
> > > ~Katie
> >
> > Any self-serving literal interpretation of the Gosho that you wield as a weapon against the eternal truth of the supreme teaching of the Lotus Sutra has been declared "not to be accepted" by Nichiren Daishonin:
> >
> > From "The Opening of the Eyes," WND I, p. 263:
> > https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-237
> >
> > . . . I must observe sadly that, although it would be simple
> > . . . enough to point out the error of the views propounded by
> > . . . these men, if I did so, the people of today would not even
> > . . . look in my direction. They would go on in their erroneous
> > . . . ways and, in the end, would slander me to the ruler of the
> > . . . country and put my life in jeopardy. Nevertheless, our
> > . . . merciful father Shakyamuni Buddha, when he faced his end in
> > . . . the grove of sal trees, stated as his dying instructions
> > . . . that we are to “rely on the Law and not upon persons.” “Not
> > . . . relying upon persons” means that when persons of the first,
> > . . . second, third, and fourth ranks preach, even though they
> > . . . are bodhisattvas such as Universal Worthy and Manjushrī who
> > . . . have attained the stage of near-perfect enlightenment, IF
> > . . . THEY DO NOT PREACH WITH THE SUTRA IN HAND, THEN THEY ARE
> > . . . NOT TO BE ACCEPTED.
> >
> > Your entire set of arguments has no doctrinal basis because of that. You lose, and that means you lose big time, countless kalpas.
> >
> > Let's choose a referee/judge that is neutral, unlike cael...@gmail.com, your shill.
> >
> > I choose Noel, who has a low opinion of the SGI, Sensei and myself.
> >
> > Let "Noel the Neutral" judge who is winning this rhetorical battle. If it goes against me, I'll live with that.
> >
> > -Chas.
> > __________________________________________
> >
> > On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 3:15:38 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> > > Never mind Nichiren’s original writings ?
> > >
> > > Spoken like a chip off the ‘ol kanto Tendai hobos who corrupted the writings you follow!!
> > >
> > > ~ Katie
> >
> > Gosh, your hatred of the Lotus Sutra knows no bounds: You would literally interpret the Gosho in a self-serving way to call the Lotus Sutra a pack of lies, Shakyamuni a serial prevaricator and Nichiren Daishonin an accuser of both.
> >
> > Unbelievable.
> >
> > This is why I chose Noel to referee this debate: he gets this point and has not lost touch with the truth of the Lotus Sutra yet: as you Mark Rogow, Katie Higgins, and all of Nichiren Shu have.
> >
> > I think Iain might be on my side in this debate as well ... he was the one that called me on my trusting the Gosho as mentor, and the truth, when it clearly must bow to the Lotus Sutra and not the other way around. I admitted my error and that he was correct in this case: let's see if he backs you on this dispute now and has changed his colors: he was the one that called Nichiren Daishonin in writing the Gosho a "latter day commentator."
> >
> > Here is all that debate for Iain to read if he should decide to comment:
> >
> > The Stake In The Heart of the Vampire Teaching of Katie Higgins, Mark Rogow and their Mentor In Life, Jackie Stone +
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/pI7YPM1RJS4/_7b_OFEXCwAJ
> >
> > -Chas.
> > __________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Quoting from "A Ship to Cross the Sea of Suffering" - Writings of Nichiren Daishonin p. 33 ...
> >
> > A passage from the "Teacher of the Law" chapter reads: "If one of these good men or good women [in the time after I have passed into extinction is able to secretly expound the Lotus Sutra to one person, even one phrase of it, then you should know that] he or she is the envoy of the Thus Come One." This means that anyone who teaches others even a single phrase of the Lotus Sutra is the envoy of the Thus Come One, whether that person be priest or layman, nun or laywoman. You are already a lay practitioner and therefore one of the "good men" described in the sutra. One who listens to even a sentence or phrase of the sutra and cherishes it deep in one's heart may be likened to a ship that crosses the sea of the sufferings of birth and death. The Great Teacher Miao-lo stated, "Even a single phrase cherished deep in one's heart will without fail help one reach the opposite shore. To ponder one phrase and practice it is to exercise navigation." Only the ship of Myoho-renge-kyo enables one to cross the sea of the sufferings of birth and death.
>
> You sound EXACTLY like the one you hate Chas:
>
> "So if one believes the Daishonin meant exactly what he said, one will fall into hell." -- Nittatsu Shonin
>
> The Supreme Votary states differently...
>
> “Depend upon the teaching, not upon the people."
>
> “The Buddha says determining the future, “Depend upon the teaching, not upon the people. Bodhisattva Nagarjuna says, “If one depends upon the scripture it is a correct argument; if one does not depend upon the scripture it is an incorrect argument.” T’ien-t’ai says, “Again, if it conforms to the scripture, quote and use it. If there is no corresponding sentence or corresponding meaning, then one should not believe and accept. ” Dengyo says, “Depend upon what the Buddha taught, not upon the oral tradition.” If one follows these scriptures, treatises and commentaries, then one should not base oneself on dreams. Once should only treasure the passages in the scriptures and treatises…” -- The Selection of the Time
>
> "Answer: Are those who have received the teachings directly from their teacher invariably free from error, while those who appear in later ages and examine and clarify these teachings are to be regarded as worthless? If so, then should we throw away the sutras and instead rely upon the four ranks of bodhisattvas? Should a person throw away the deed of transfer received from his father and mother and instead depend upon oral transmissions? Are the written commentaries of the Great Teacher Dengyo so much trash, and the oral traditions handed down from the Great Teacher Jikaku the only guide to truth?" -- On Attaining Buddhhood in One's Present Form.
>
> "It is also laid down that one should “rely on sutras that are complete and final and not on those that are not complete and final.” We must therefore look carefully among the sutras to determine which arecomplete and final and which are not and put our faith in the former Bodhisattva Nāgārjuna in his Commentary on the Ten Stages Sutra states, “Do not rely on treatises that distort the sutras; rely on those that are faithful to the sutras.” The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai says, “That which accords with the sutras is to be written down and made available. But put no faith in anything that in word or meaning fails to do so.” The Great Teacher Dengyō says, “Depend upon the preachings of the Buddha, and do not put faith in traditions handed down orally.” Enchin, also known as the Great Teacher Chishō, says, “In transmitting the teachings, rely on the written words [of scriptures].” -- Opening the Eyes
>
> "I win, I win" -- Chas
>
> I don't think so.
>
> Mark
But you don't depend upon the true teaching that is the Lotus Sutra, according to Nichiren Daishonin. In fact, you elevate the Gosho to the status of true teaching OVER THE PROSTRATE BODIES OF THE BUDDHAS IN THE TEN DIRECTIONS WITH THE LOTUS SUTRA CLUTCHED IN THEIR COLD, DEAD HANDS.
Only the supreme and true teaching of the Lotus Sutra is complete and final, the Gosho does not even approach that status.
Hence any valid interpretation of the Gosho must not call into question a single character or phrase of the Lotus Sutra, the Gosho must bow to the Lotus Sutra and not the other way around.
If Nichiren Daishonin is not lying in the Gosho (and he is not) then any difference with the Lotus Sutra falls under the category of "expedient means": partial truth leading to the whole, eternal and universal truth of the Lotus Sutra. It is because of expedient means, used by all the Buddhas including Nichiren Daishonin (whom YOU SAY cannot be a Buddha, but who is in fact, the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law), that they ACTUALLY DO MEAN WHAT THEY SAY.
-Chas.
Katie Higgins
Sep 23, 2018, 9:52:10 AM9/23/18
to
Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu leaders and priests are those who "fabricate their own scriptures to delude the people of the world. Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby they make distinctions when preaching this sutra.’" (LS Ch.13)
~Katie
Chas.
Sep 24, 2018, 6:03:22 AM9/24/18
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Your ad hominem doesn't change a thing. Either the true and supreme teaching of the Lotus Sutra is the absolute eternal and universal truth, or it is not.
Arguing that some chapter or other is more honest than others is preposterous: every chapter has Myoho-Renge-Kyo, the beating heart of the Lotus Sutra, as its title. This is done for a reason, so that later commentators cannot disregard a chapter of the Lotus or call it less than absolutely truthful.
This does not change the fact that the essential teaching is located in the "one chapter [16th] and two halves [end of 15th, beginning of 17th]".
Do not presume to think that the location of the essential teaching there calls into doubt the truthfulness of every character and phrase of the rest of the Lotus Sutra, it does not. Nichiren Daishonin makes this clear in the last paragraphs of "On Establishing the Four Bodhisattvas as the Object of Devotion", WND I, p. 978:
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/134#para-10
In the rest of the Lotus Sutra (outside of the "one chapter and two halves"), the Buddha recounts the past stories and future predictions of other great Buddhas (I count 23,211 other great Buddhas and himself under another name, not Shakyamuni in the future) preaching the Lotus Sutra to vast numbers of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in different Buddha realms:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/sHwiv0uQTZ8/BkyInXukBwAJ
Relating that history and those predictions was not accidental: it is clearly to disarm those such as you and Mark Rogow, who falsely deify Shakyamuni as a manGod like Jesus, or as God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth like Yahweh/Elohim/Jehovah/Allah.
-Chas.
Arguing that some chapter or other is more honest than others is preposterous: every chapter has Myoho-Renge-Kyo, the beating heart of the Lotus Sutra, as its title. This is done for a reason, so that later commentators cannot disregard a chapter of the Lotus or call it less than absolutely truthful.
This does not change the fact that the essential teaching is located in the "one chapter [16th] and two halves [end of 15th, beginning of 17th]".
Do not presume to think that the location of the essential teaching there calls into doubt the truthfulness of every character and phrase of the rest of the Lotus Sutra, it does not. Nichiren Daishonin makes this clear in the last paragraphs of "On Establishing the Four Bodhisattvas as the Object of Devotion", WND I, p. 978:
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/134#para-10
In the rest of the Lotus Sutra (outside of the "one chapter and two halves"), the Buddha recounts the past stories and future predictions of other great Buddhas (I count 23,211 other great Buddhas and himself under another name, not Shakyamuni in the future) preaching the Lotus Sutra to vast numbers of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in different Buddha realms:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/sHwiv0uQTZ8/BkyInXukBwAJ
Relating that history and those predictions was not accidental: it is clearly to disarm those such as you and Mark Rogow, who falsely deify Shakyamuni as a manGod like Jesus, or as God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth like Yahweh/Elohim/Jehovah/Allah.
-Chas.
Katie Higgins
Sep 24, 2018, 9:33:06 PM9/24/18
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>>" who falsely deify Shakyamuni as a manGod like Jesus, or as God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth like Yahweh/Elohim/Jehovah/Allah."<<
Chas.
Sep 25, 2018, 5:58:25 AM9/25/18
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-Chas.
Katie Higgins
Sep 25, 2018, 6:14:15 PM9/25/18
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Please provide a quote from Nichiren-- written in his own hand, where he refers to "Shakyamuni as merely, a man"
Me thinks you are jealous of the manifest body of the Eternal Buddha you continually slander!!
Circling the drain, you are @chas--- author of your own demise!
~Katie
Chas.
Sep 25, 2018, 10:49:51 PM9/25/18
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That means that when the Buddha recounts the past stories and future predictions of other great Buddhas (I count 23,211 other great Buddhas and himself under another name (not Shakyamuni in the future) preaching the Lotus Sutra to vast numbers of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in different Buddha realms: .
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/sHwiv0uQTZ8/BkyInXukBwAJ .
When he is relating that history and those predictions it is not accidental: it is clearly intended to disarm those such as you and Mark Rogow, who falsely deify Shakyamuni as a manGod like Jesus, or as God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth like Yahweh/Elohim/Jehovah/Allah. .
-Chas.
Mark Rogow
Sep 26, 2018, 11:31:06 PM9/26/18
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SGI mentor-disciple, Lotus Sutra interfaith, Nichiren True Buddha, DaiGohonzon, Sole Living Master in the Seat of the Law, Human Revolution...
Chas.
Sep 27, 2018, 4:03:02 AM9/27/18
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That means your self-serving literal interpretations of the Gosho to support your statue-worshiping Nichiren Shu cult falsely-defying Shakyamuni as a manGod like Jesus, or as God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth like Yahweh/Elohim/Jehovah/Allah ... are all wrong.
Shakyamuni himself refutes that in many chapters of the Lotus Sutra, where he recounts his family history of great Buddhas preaching the Lotus Sutra in their own Buddha realms, and his predictions of 23,211 of those in the future as well.
All the chapters of the Lotus Sutra bear the title of Myoho-Renge-Kyo, just to prove that they are the true teaching. Are you calling the Law a lie, too?
You really have sunk to the nadir of your life, Mark Rogow.
-Chas.
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