Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)

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janp...@gmail.com

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Sep 13, 2008, 1:29:33 AM9/13/08
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If we are to believe in claims of subsequent religious institutions,
our planet Earth is packed with atheists, while only rare people
believe in God. Also such an opinion prevails amongst a majority of
people, who are convinced that in present times individuals who
believe in God are a real rarity. However, the reality is an exact
reversal of what is claimed by religious institutions. In fact, if
someone seeks carefully around, then only with a great difficulty can
find a true atheist. Practically, almost 100% of people, at the bottom
of their heart believe in the existence of some superior being with
attributes of God. The only thing which differs from person to person
is the depth of their belief, and the name and definition of God in
which they believe. This fact of the common belief in God is confirmed
by all research done in this matter. One amongst such research was
reported in the article "More than nine out of 10 believe in God",
from page B2 of New Zealand newspaper from Christchurch named "The
Press" (they do have a web page " www.press.co.nz "), in the issue of
that newspaper dated on Wednesday, June 25, 2008. This article
informed about results of such research carried out in the USA. But it
is well known that presently the USA belongs to one amongst the most
atheistic countries of our planet, in the majority of schools of which
teaching religion is forbidden. Thus, in other countries probably even
a larger proportion of people believe in God. Similar results are
yield from research on human psychology. This research always stresses
that people have from the birth a natural inclination to believe in
the God's existence. Even many murderers and sadists admit that they
committed their crimes because "God ordered them to do so". So in
reality the claims of religious institutions and beliefs of the
majority of us, that the Earth is full of atheists, turns out to be a
myth and an untruth. In fact the Earth is packed with people who
believe in God's existence. Only that these believers are
intentionally kept in the uncertainty about the God's existence.
Furthermore, a significant proportion of present people is highly
sceptical in relation to naive and full of errors explanations of God
disseminated by present religions paralysed by their own age and
sclerosis. Therefore the belief of these people in the religious
explanations of God in many cases is too shallow to be able to force
them to pedantically do whatever their religion asks them to do.

Unfortunately, if we look on the humanity from the prospective of God,
then it turns out that the situation when all people deeply believe in
God is NOT at all in the interest of this God. This is because God
created humans so that people continually increased their knowledge,
searched for truth, created, developed, overcame obstacle, did not
give up, etc. On the other hand, people who deeply believe in God
typically cease to seek knowledge and truth. Also they cease their
stubborn fight with obstructions of fate and in everything they begin
to give up. From thinking seekers of truth and from creative
inventors, such people deeply believing in God usually transform
themselves into thoughtless pleasers and worshippers of God, who spend
time on infinitive repetition of the same prayers. For example, as
this is described in item #A2 of the web page "will.htm" (about the
influence of "free will" of people on fate of the entire human
civilisation), people who deeply believe in God cease to seek and to
increase their knowledge, as they have a ready answer to everything
that "God created it". They do NOT try to establish how God created
everything, how this creation works, why God did this instead of doing
something else, nor what God really is - because they are afraid to
"offend God" or to commit a "blasphemy". They cease to do scientific
research because "if God wants that we know this, He would reveal this
to us". They do NOT improve their characters because "how God created
me He must want me to be". They do NOT fight with illnesses,
accidents, nor inconveniences, because "God appears to want me to
suffer". They cease to create new inventions because they wait until
"God gives these to them". They cease to fight against bad fortunes
because "God appears to wish that it is so". Etc., etc. In the result,
a deep belief in God has a conservationist and destructive
consequences. It freezes the progress of creativity, knowledge,
technology, and faith. Thus, a society which is full of people that
deeply believe in God, freezes in its intellectual and technical
development, and thus also in its spiritual and religious development.
If since the beginning of time the world was full of people who deeply
believe in God, then we would live in caves until today, we would NOT
know fire, and instead of the only and intelligent God we would
worship e.g. thoughtless lightning flashes and thunders. As we can
realise, such a freezing of progress of knowledge and development of
people is NOT in interests of God. God does NOT want that people
behave in such a manner. After all, according to explanations from
item #B3 of the web page "will.htm" (about the influence of "free
will" of people on fate of the entire human civilisation), and also
item #C1 of the web page "god.htm" (about secular and scientific
understanding of God), God created man in order people mastered the
skill of stubborn searching for knowledge and truth, thus becoming an
active instrument in the evolution of the universe and helping God in
increasing His own knowledge. From the God's point of view it is
immensely vital that people seek knowledge and truth, are creative,
continually improve themselves and their knowledge, display
determination and stubbornness in implementing their intentions, etc.,
etc. So God has no choice but to find a way how to force people to
seek knowledge and truth, and how to motivate us to put into these
searches everything that we are capable of.

Fortunately, NOT without effects God is infinitively more intelligent
than people. Therefore He found a perfect solution to the problem of
freezing of progress, knowledge, and technology by people who deeply
believe in God. Namely, "God continually keeps all people in the lack
of certainty 'whether God exists at all' ". In turn, to keep us
uncertain about His existence, it is this God Himself who, amongst
others, spreads atheism amongst people, who actively supports
everything that noisily denies His existence, and who quietly blocks
from noticing everything that confirms His existence. In the result of
such moves, and numerous other similar steps described in the next
part of this post, God intentionally "confuses" people in the matter
of His own existence. This confusion decreasing peoples' belief to
such a low level, that "just in case" many of them begin to act as if
God does NOT exist at all. These people begin actively and on their
own risk seek the truth. They stubbornly fight with obstacles of fate.
They create inventions and make discoveries. Etc., etc. In this
manner, through continuous maintaining people in the uncertainty about
the existence of Himself, God actually stimulates the search for
knowledge and truth, scientific research, efforts, striving, progress,
etc. So with people God acts similarly like people do this with a
donkey - namely "in order to force a donkey to go forward, people
intentionally pull it backward". This continuous maintaining people in
uncertainty about the existence of God, allows also God to earn a
whole range of other benefits. For example, it allows Him to subject
individual people and the entire our civilisation to continuous tests
and exams, thus allowing Him to distinguish between valuable people -
which are worth to inspire and to protect, and a human trash - which
can be donated to fate as examples that are to teach others.

Of course, God does NOT destroy all evidence for His own existence.
Several well-hidden items of such evidence God leaves on the Earth for
those more stubborn seekers of truth. The philosophy of totalizm
already managed to discover and identify some amongst these hidden
items of evidence, and now disseminates these on various web pages -
e.g. see the web page "god_proof.htm" (about scientific evidence for
the existence of God). After all, if someone gets really stubborn,
then God always allows him or her to earn the certainty about the
God's existence. Only that He makes them to earn this certainty
through their own effort and after many sacrifices. This is why, in
spite that officially and loudly God allows His "simulations" to block
the access to publications of totalizm, that He openly helps critics
who throw mud on totalizm, and that He visibly promotes everything
that discourages people from reading publications of totalizm, quietly
God always opens the access to these publications and web pages for
stubborn seekers of truth - about whom He decided that they deserve to
get to know totalizm. This is why, if you (the reader) is NOT reading
these words just with the intention that this allows you to throw mud
on totalizm later, the sole fact that you come to read these words and
descriptions, is a proof that you belong to these few seekers of truth
whom God considers sufficiently mature and worthy to give them chances
for thinking-over the matters that are described here.

As it is explained above, in very vital interest of God lies
maintaining people in continuous uncertainty about the existence of
God. So in order to keep people continually in this uncertainty, God
developed and perpetually uses a whole range of various manners, ways,
methods, tricks, etc. For example, God causes that after the birth,
memories of our previous incarnations are blocked. Only very stubborn
seekers of truth can later unblock these memories with the use of
hypnosis. But even then their scepticism still forms barriers against
recognising these memories for what they really are. God also so
designed the human psychology, that everyone amongst us is especially
untrusting and sceptical in all God's matters. Thus, a typical person
would acquire the certainty of the existence of God only if he or she
could see and touch God - of course, to NO living people God grants
such a privilege.

Amongst a huge number of methods, ways, means, tricks, etc., which God
continually uses to keep people in the perpetual uncertainty about His
own existence, one group of these is strictly linked to the topic of
the totaliztic web page "evil.htm". This is a wide use of "evil" by
God, and His employment of "evil creatures". Namely, in order to be
able to illustratively suggest to people, that God does NOT exist, in
practically every area of life God noisily although anonymously (i.e.
not under His own name) promotes the prevalence of "evil".
Simultaneously, God also suppresses the emphasizing, and intentionally
hides, all manifestations of a good and morality. Of course, God does
all these in a way similar to an enthusiastic examiner, who uses
various tricks and traps to check how well his students mastered a
given subject area. Means, these people who allow to be misled by such
noisy promotion and actually give out to temptations, God later
mercilessly, and this time quietly, punish and persecute. In turn
these ones who stand by morality and in the defence of good, God
discretely and quietly rewards later.


In this noisy utilisation of "evil" for hiding His own existence, very
handy for God is the use of "simulation" of the existence and a
secretive activity on the Earth, of "evil creatures" which in most
ancient times were called "gods", later - although still in antiquity,
were called "devils", while presently are called with the ultra-modern
term "UFOnauts". After all, God is a master in "simulation". He
continually creates and destroys thousands of stars and planets, and
millions of human existences. Thus, for the use in such a simulation,
God is able to design appropriately, then temporally create, human-
like creatures (i.e. "UFOnauts") to which He transfers (i.e. "
possesses") His own awareness. Then with hands of these creatures God
can subject people to any manipulations, temptations, tests, and
tricks - which lie in interest of goals and intentions of God.
Finally, when these temporally created creatures fulfil their duties,
God again destroys them. The use of these creatures has also this
advantage, that everything that God does with their hands, appears as
if it has NOTHING to do with God. So it works perfectly towards making
impossible for people to gain a certainty about the existence of God.


The explanations presented above are adopted from items #F2 and #F3 of
the totaliztic web page "evil.htm", update of 3 September 2008, or
later. The latest update of this web page should be available from
several web sites of totalizm One amongst these web sites is " jan-
pajak.com " - which is available under the address http://jan-pajak.com
and which always presents for brief periods of time the most recently
updated web page of totalizm.
It is also worth to know that practically all totaliztic web pages are
availabe at each address (server) of totalizm. Therefore independently
from the web page "evil.htm", each address (server) linked from here
should also offer all other web pages of totalizm - unless some of
these pages were sabotaged, or are so new that I had no time yet to
upload these at a given address (server). (But in a case when for some
reasons a page is unavailable under a given address, still at this
address a MENU should be available which has links to other addresses
(servers) of totalizm, on which a given web page should already be
accessible.) Thus, if someone wishes to view descriptions from any
other totaliztic web page, e.g. from a web page listed in this post,
or listed in other totaliztic posts, then in the above addresses the
name "evil.htm" is just enough to exchange for a name of the web page
that he or she wishes to view, e.g. for the name of web page
"oscillatory_chamber.htm", "eco_cars.htm", "boiler.htm",
"fe_cell.htm", "free_energy.htm", "telekinetics.htm",
"dipolar_gravity.htm", "nirvana.htm", "totalizm.htm", "evil.htm",
"god.htm", "god_proof.htm", "bible.htm", "evolution.htm",
"wszewilki_jutra_uk.htm", "malbork_uk.htm", "memorial.htm",
"newzealand.htm", "partia_totalizmu_uk.htm", "fruit.htm",
"text_1_5.htm", "explain.htm", "day26.htm", "ufo_proof.htm",
"katrina.htm", etc., etc.

If here the above text is difficult to read, or links to web pages
cannot be published here, then it is worth to know that this post
together will all working links is repeated on several blogs of
totalizm, subsequent ones amongst which can be accessed at following
internet addresses:
http://www.getablog.net/totalizm
http://totalizm.wordpress.com
http://totalizm.blox.pl/html
http://totalizm.myblog.net
From these blogs it is also worth to read the post number #149E
entitled "Atheists make progress but neglect morality, believers do
the opposite". That post compares the influence that believers and
atheists exert at our civilisation. So the content of it complements
the content of the above post. It was also disccussed in Google
discussion groups, where it was available, amongst others, at the
address http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion/browse_thread/thread/d2327d9477eed94b#
.

With the totaliztic salute,
Jan Pajak


Langevinger66

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Sep 13, 2008, 1:34:02 AM9/13/08
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> pajak.com " - which is available under the addresshttp://jan-pajak.com
> internet addresses:http://www.getablog.net/totalizmhttp://totalizm.wordpress.comhttp://totalizm.blox.pl/htmlhttp://totalizm.myblog.net

> From these blogs it is also worth to read the post number #149E
> entitled "Atheists make progress but neglect morality, believers do
> the opposite". That post compares the influence that believers and
> atheists exert at our civilisation. So the content of it complements
> the content of the above post. It was also disccussed in Google
> discussion groups, where it was available, amongst others, at the
> addresshttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion/browse_thread/thread/d232...

> .
>
> With the totaliztic salute,
> Jan Pajak

tss another one god verry boring
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=UhjG47gtMCo&feature=rec-fresh

janp...@gmail.com

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Sep 13, 2008, 1:42:53 AM9/13/08
to

> tss another one god verry boringhttp://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=UhjG47gtMCo&feature=rec-fresh

OK, so what the above proves and how it relates to the fact that God
intentionally keeps humens uncertain about the existence of God?

Langevinger66

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Sep 13, 2008, 1:59:02 AM9/13/08
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clamato

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Sep 13, 2008, 7:51:59 AM9/13/08
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On Sep 13, 12:29 am, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> If we are to believe in claims of subsequent religious institutions,
> our planet Earth is packed with atheists, while only rare people
> believe in God.

<snip remainder of lies>

> With the totaliztic salute,
> Jan Pajak

This is, on its face, a completely fabricated story
to explain why a non-existent god would hide himself
from people. I would say it is arrogant to claim
to know the mind of god, but their ain't one, so
it's only stupid.

And this "totaliztic salute" is only to be rediculed.
It's like a marketing campaign from a small town
used car dealership.

Mark K. Bilbo

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Sep 13, 2008, 8:09:56 AM9/13/08
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janp...@gmail.com wrote:

"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"

Maybe because he just doesn't exist...

--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"You know, I'd get it if people were just looking for a
way to fill the holes. But they want the holes. They wanna
live in the holes. And they go nuts when someone else
pours dirt in their holes.

"Climb out of your holes people!"

- Dr. House, on faith

pba...@worldonline.nl

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Sep 13, 2008, 12:29:41 PM9/13/08
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1.

> If we are to believe in claims of subsequent religious institutions,
> our planet Earth is packed with atheists, while only rare people
> believe in God.

I do not know any religious institution that claims so

2


> Also such an opinion prevails amongst a majority of
> people, who are convinced that in present times individuals who
> believe in God are a real rarity.

I am sure only a small foolish minority thinks so.

3.


> Practically, almost 100% of people, at the bottom
> of their heart believe in the existence of some superior being with
> attributes of God.

Probably not more than 90%

4.


> But it
> is well known that presently the USA belongs to one amongst the most
> atheistic countries of our planet

In the USA 80% believes in a God.
The most atheistic country in the world is Czechia

But your main thesis is correct.
If their is a god, that god does not seem to want the people to know
about him.

Let's please that god:-)

Love.

Peter van Velzen
September 2008
Amstelveen
The Netherlands

rlbell

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Sep 13, 2008, 12:53:47 PM9/13/08
to
On Sep 12, 11:29 pm, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> If we are to believe in claims of subsequent religious institutions,
> our planet Earth is packed with atheists, while only rare people
> believe in God.

I do not know where you live, but almost the reverse is true in most
of the world. Athiests are not rare, but they compose only a
minority. In Canada, they are outnumbered by just the catholics (no
data for other countries).

As to the answer to your question, there is none so blind as those who
will not see. The cosmologists claim that there may be an infinite
number of universes, so the fact that this one happens to be exactly
constructed to allow for our existence is evidence of nothing. Faced
with the inability to eliminate The Creator, they replace him with an
infinite number of monkeys. As each of the proposed infinite other
universes are outside our own, cosmologists are able to explain away
their lack of evidence with an inability to observe outside our own
universe.


duke

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Sep 13, 2008, 1:05:57 PM9/13/08
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On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:

>janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>
>Maybe because he just doesn't exist...

Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.

duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

Syd M.

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Sep 13, 2008, 2:57:06 PM9/13/08
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On Sep 13, 1:05 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
>
> >janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>
> >Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
> Oh, he exists.  All evidence to be found demands it.
>
And yet, you cannot actually produce this evidence.
Fancy that.

PDW

The Chief Instigator

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Sep 13, 2008, 4:59:15 PM9/13/08
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On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:05:57 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
>
>>janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>>
>>Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
> Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.

All of _your_ evidence, anyway.

--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2008-09 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Rockford 5, Houston 2 (April 25)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 11 vs. Chicago, 7:35

Mike Painter

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Sep 13, 2008, 9:04:53 PM9/13/08
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The Chief Instigator wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:05:57 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
>> <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
>>
>>> janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> "Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>>>
>>> Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>>
>> Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.
>
> All of _your_ evidence, anyway.

No, he is right and as soon as they find some they will tell us.


Free Lunch

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Sep 13, 2008, 10:03:39 PM9/13/08
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On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:05:57 -0500, in alt.talk.creationism
duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
<3nsnc4ldhg7b2c32s...@4ax.com>:

>On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
>
>>janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>>
>>Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
>Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.
>
So you assert. You have neither evidence nor compelling logic to back up
your claims. You know that.

Smiler

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Sep 13, 2008, 10:15:47 PM9/13/08
to
rlbell wrote:
> On Sep 12, 11:29 pm, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
>> If we are to believe in claims of subsequent religious institutions,
>> our planet Earth is packed with atheists, while only rare people
>> believe in God.
>
> I do not know where you live,

Nor what planet he's on.

but almost the reverse is true in most
> of the world. Athiests are not rare, but they compose only a
> minority. In Canada, they are outnumbered by just the catholics (no
> data for other countries).
>
> As to the answer to your question, there is none so blind as those who
> will not see. The cosmologists claim that there may be an infinite
> number of universes, so the fact that this one happens to be exactly
> constructed to allow for our existence is evidence of nothing.

The hole is not made to fit the puddle, moron.
The universe was here long before life of any kind, so our existence fits
the universe, not the other way round.
A different universe would have produced different forms of life that fitted
its parameters.
Unless you claim that a different shaped hole will not fit the puddle.

> Faced
> with the inability to eliminate The Creator,

There's no need to eliminate that which is neither neccessary nor in
evidence.

> they replace him with an
> infinite number of monkeys.

We call them theists.

Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279

janp...@gmail.com

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Sep 14, 2008, 5:13:43 AM9/14/08
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On Sep 14, 2:57 am, "Syd M." <pdwrigh...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > >"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>
> > >Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
> > Oh, he exists.  All evidence to be found demands it.
>
> And yet, you cannot actually produce this evidence.
> Fancy that.
>
> PDW

Surly youself, but only "perhaps" also he, are both unable to present
the scientific evidence for the existence of God. But I can indicate
such evidence. Actually, I managed to write an entire web page filled
up with scientific evidence for the existence of God. (Some examples
from this huge body of evidence I already discussed on the thread
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/browse_thread/thread/0b85905d2dc9f083#c374dc041f3c5fdf
.) My web page also contains the "formal scientific proof for the
existence of God completed with methods of mathematical logic" - for
the summary of this formal proof see the thread
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.logic/browse_thread/thread/3511120c588e0a16/6c4ba1babcee49b5#6c4ba1babcee49b5
. The page with all this huge body of evidence is named
"god_proof.htm" and you can view it at any web page of "totalizm",
e.g. on the web page http://jan-pajak.com/god_proof.htm (to find other
addresses of that web page you need to run google.com and then type
the key words "Jan Pajak god_proof.htm" - but without quotes). So
please do NOT claim that there is NO evidence for the existence of
God, but just admit, that you are trying to play "donkey" from the
famous English proverb "you can bring a donkey to water, but you
cannot make it drink".

ca...@optonline.net

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Sep 14, 2008, 7:21:54 AM9/14/08
to
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:13:43 -0700 (PDT), janp...@gmail.com wrote:

>On Sep 14, 2:57 am, "Syd M." <pdwrigh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> > >"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>>
>> > >Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>>
>> > Oh, he exists.  All evidence to be found demands it.
>>
>> And yet, you cannot actually produce this evidence.
>> Fancy that.
>>
>> PDW
>
>Surly youself, but only "perhaps" also he, are both unable to present
>the scientific evidence for the existence of God. But I can indicate
>such evidence. Actually, I managed to write an entire web page filled
>up with scientific evidence for the existence of God. (Some examples
>from this huge body of evidence I already discussed on the thread
>http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/browse_thread/thread/0b85905d2dc9f083#c374dc041f3c5fdf

What a fucking moron.

>.) My web page also contains the "formal scientific proof for the
>existence of God completed with methods of mathematical logic" - for
>the summary of this formal proof see the thread
>http://groups.google.com/group/sci.logic/browse_thread/thread/3511120c588e0a16/6c4ba1babcee49b5#6c4ba1babcee49b5
>. The page with all this huge body of evidence is named
>"god_proof.htm" and you can view it at any web page of "totalizm",
>e.g. on the web page http://jan-pajak.com/god_proof.htm (to find other
>addresses of that web page you need to run google.com and then type
>the key words "Jan Pajak god_proof.htm" - but without quotes). So
>please do NOT claim that there is NO evidence for the existence of
>God, but just admit, that you are trying to play "donkey" from the
>famous English proverb "you can bring a donkey to water, but you
>cannot make it drink".

There is non, liar.

Like all these morons you put the cart before the horse.

You presume it and rationalise things that can be twisted to fit this
presumption.

It only fools yourself.

What you have to do is step aside from all your presumptions. Even the
concept.

Then conclude it from real world evidence.

>With the totaliztic salute,

With the two finger salute, imbecile.

>Jan Pajak

Alex W.

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Sep 14, 2008, 7:25:46 AM9/14/08
to

"Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:k5nsp5...@blaze.blaze.net...

> janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> "Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>
> Maybe because he just doesn't exist...

Either that, or He plays a really sick game....


Art

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 10:03:22 AM9/14/08
to
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:25:46 +0100, "Alex W." <ing...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

It's people that play sick games, not God.

Art
http://home.ptd.net/~artnpeg

Syd

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 11:02:32 AM9/14/08
to
On Sep 14, 5:13 am, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 14, 2:57 am, "Syd M." <pdwrigh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>
> > > >Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
> > > Oh, he exists.  All evidence to be found demands it.
>
> > And yet, you cannot actually produce this evidence.
> > Fancy that.
>
> > PDW
>
> Surly youself, but only "perhaps" also he, are both unable to present
> the scientific evidence for the existence of God. But I can indicate
> such evidence.

Uh huh.
More wishful thinking, I bet.

PDW

rlbell

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 11:28:56 AM9/14/08
to
On Sep 13, 8:15 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...@Joe.King.com> wrote:

> rlbell wrote:
>
>
> > As to the answer to your question, there is none so blind as those who
> > will not see. The cosmologists claim that there may be an infinite
> > number of universes, so the fact that this one happens to be exactly
> > constructed to allow for our existence is evidence of nothing.
>
> The hole is not made to fit the puddle, moron.
> The universe was here long before life of any kind, so our existence fits
> the universe, not the other way round.
> A different universe would have produced different forms of life that fitted
> its parameters.
> Unless you claim that a different shaped hole will not fit the puddle.
>

It is not that the universe had to be special merely to allow for
human life, but very few universes with random properties even have
stars, let alone chemical bonding. Given no heat gradients from star
light and no chemistry (or atoms besides hydrogen and helium), what
evidence do you have that there will be any kind of life?

On what evidence does the theory of infinite universes come from?

You apparently make a different leap of faith than I do, but leap you
do.

Devils Advocaat

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 11:47:58 AM9/14/08
to
On 13 Sep, 06:29, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> If we are to believe in claims of subsequent religious institutions,
> our planet Earth is packed with atheists, while only rare people
> believe in God.

The Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary gathers considerable data on
the various religions, denominations and non-religious types around
the world on a regular basis.

Their most recent publication gives the following mid-2007 estimates:

World Population: 6.616 billion

Christians: 2.196 billion

Non-Christians: 4.420 billion

And of this last figure, only 154 million are atheists.

Which is about 2.33% of the entire planetary population.

So perhaps the sources causing the concern expressed in your opening
statement are lumping the non-Christians in with the atheists to make
the world look bad.

Free Lunch

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 12:02:56 PM9/14/08
to
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:47:58 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism
Devils Advocaat <mank...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
<e5ec9241-ea6d-421b...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:

But don't forget that the family of religions known as "Christian"
disagrees so much with each other that there are thousands of
denominations, including denominations dishonestly entitled
'nondenominational'.

Bill M

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 10:46:02 AM9/14/08
to

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3nsnc4ldhg7b2c32s...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo>
> wrote:
>
>>janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>>
>>Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
> Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.

Dukey, you keep making this claim but NEVER supply any OBJECTIVE VERFIABLE
EVIDENCE! Are you just dishonest or moronic???

Smiler

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 7:41:00 PM9/14/08
to
Bill M wrote:
> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:3nsnc4ldhg7b2c32s...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
>> <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
>>
>>> janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> "Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>>>
>>> Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>>
>> Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.
>
> Dukey, you keep making this claim but NEVER supply any OBJECTIVE
> VERFIABLE EVIDENCE! Are you just dishonest or moronic???
>

Both!

>> Puke, American-Moron
>> *****
>> "Masturbation is the most perfect form of Prayer."
>> Pope Paul VI
>> *****

Smiler

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 7:51:12 PM9/14/08
to
rlbell wrote:
> On Sep 13, 8:15 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...@Joe.King.com> wrote:
>> rlbell wrote:
>>
>>
>>> As to the answer to your question, there is none so blind as those
>>> who will not see. The cosmologists claim that there may be an
>>> infinite number of universes, so the fact that this one happens to
>>> be exactly constructed to allow for our existence is evidence of
>>> nothing.
>>
>> The hole is not made to fit the puddle, moron.
>> The universe was here long before life of any kind, so our existence
>> fits the universe, not the other way round.
>> A different universe would have produced different forms of life
>> that fitted its parameters.
>> Unless you claim that a different shaped hole will not fit the
>> puddle.
>>
>
> It is not that the universe had to be special merely to allow for
> human life, but very few universes with random properties even have
> stars, let alone chemical bonding.

Your evidence for that is??
In fact, what evidence do you have that *there are* other universes?


> Given no heat gradients from star
> light and no chemistry (or atoms besides hydrogen and helium), what
> evidence do you have that there will be any kind of life?

First show evidence of these other universes and their make-up.

>
> On what evidence does the theory of infinite universes come from?

None, as far as I know. It is merely speculation and belief, much like
religion.


>
> You apparently make a different leap of faith than I do, but leap you
> do.

Where? How?
I'm only discussing *this* universe, the one we know exists, and no others.

Ronald Turner

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 7:56:34 PM9/14/08
to

Another subliminal confession to believing in God's existence.

Why, you even used a capital "H" ! Huh, imagine that.

But, if it makes you feel better, let's just call it a Freudian slip.


clamato

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 7:59:04 PM9/14/08
to
On Sep 14, 6:21 am, ca...@optonline.net wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:13:43 -0700 (PDT), janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> >On Sep 14, 2:57 am, "Syd M." <pdwrigh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>
> >> > >Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
> >> > Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.
>
> >> And yet, you cannot actually produce this evidence.
> >> Fancy that.
>
> >> PDW
>
> >Surly youself, but only "perhaps" also he, are both unable to present
> >the scientific evidence for the existence of God. But I can indicate
> >such evidence. Actually, I managed to write an entire web page filled
> >up with scientific evidence for the existence of God. (Some examples
> >from this huge body of evidence I already discussed on the thread
> >http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/browse_thread/thread/0b859...

>
> What a fucking moron.
>
> >.) My web page also contains the "formal scientific proof for the
> >existence of God completed with methods of mathematical logic" - for
> >the summary of this formal proof see the thread
> >http://groups.google.com/group/sci.logic/browse_thread/thread/3511120...

> >. The page with all this huge body of evidence is named
> >"god_proof.htm" and you can view it at any web page of "totalizm",
> >e.g. on the web pagehttp://jan-pajak.com/god_proof.htm(to find other

> >addresses of that web page you need to run google.com and then type
> >the key words "Jan Pajak god_proof.htm" - but without quotes). So
> >please do NOT claim that there is NO evidence for the existence of
> >God,

The poster here who signs with
the signature:

>With the totaliztic salute,
>Jan Pajak

...has a webpage at:
http://jan-pajak.com/god_proof.htm

...in which he claims that a tree
in Nalgonda, India has excreted images
of animals, which proves the existence
of god.

It turns out that this tree is
nothing more than a Disney exhibit
at Epcot center, titled "Tree of
Life". See the images
here:
http://www.mixedandmotions.com/2008/07/walt-disney-world-animal-kingdom-and.html
and here:
http://philosophyrecycled.blogspot.com/2008/05/mysterious-tree-in-nalgonda-false.html

What a freakin' maroon.

Mark K. Bilbo

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 8:32:19 PM9/14/08
to

Wow. Grasp those straws...

Ronald Turner

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 9:05:02 PM9/14/08
to
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
> Ronald Turner wrote:
>> Alex W. wrote:
>>> "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
>>> news:k5nsp5...@blaze.blaze.net...
>>>> janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>>>>
>>>> Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>>>
>>> Either that, or He plays a really sick game....
>>>
>>
>> Another subliminal confession to believing in God's existence.
>>
>> Why, you even used a capital "H" ! Huh, imagine that.
>>
>> But, if it makes you feel better, let's just call it a Freudian slip.
>
> Wow. Grasp those straws...

(Three and a half hours of mostly one-liners. I wonder what Dr. Freud
would have to say about that?)

Anyway, you, in an attempt to lessen the impact, of course, are going to
call it a "straw". I, on the other hand, call it "interesting
circumstantial evidence".

Horses for courses, wouldn't you say ?

Opus-

unread,
Sep 14, 2008, 9:13:35 PM9/14/08
to
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:46:02 +0100, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net>
spake thusly:

>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:3nsnc4ldhg7b2c32s...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>janp...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>>>
>>>Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>>
>> Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.
>
>Dukey, you keep making this claim but NEVER supply any OBJECTIVE VERFIABLE
>EVIDENCE! Are you just dishonest or moronic???

Can I vote? I vote *moronic*

--
jbu...@hotmail.com
(Jim, daddy to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94)

"Faith may not move mountains, but you should see what it does to skyscrapers" --Panama Floyd

Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at
my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim.

Syd

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 4:03:17 AM9/15/08
to
On Sep 14, 10:46 am, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message

>
> news:3nsnc4ldhg7b2c32s...@4ax.com...
>
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo>
> > wrote:
>
> >>janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>
> >>Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
> > Oh, he exists.  All evidence to be found demands it.
>
> Dukey, you keep making this claim but NEVER supply any OBJECTIVE VERFIABLE
> EVIDENCE! Are you just dishonest or moronic???
>
Yes. ;->

PDW

http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1781586

Syd

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 4:03:57 AM9/15/08
to
On Sep 14, 9:13 pm, Opus- <jbu...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:46:02 +0100, "Bill M" <wm...@bellsouth.net>
> spake thusly:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message

> >news:3nsnc4ldhg7b2c32s...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>>janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>
> >>>Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
> >> Oh, he exists.  All evidence to be found demands it.
>
> >Dukey, you keep making this claim but NEVER supply any OBJECTIVE VERFIABLE
> >EVIDENCE! Are you just dishonest or moronic???
>
> Can I vote? I vote *moronic*
>
All of the above.

PDW

http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1781586

Yap

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 4:57:54 AM9/15/08
to
On Sep 14, 7:25 pm, "Alex W." <ing...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote in messagenews:k5nsp5...@blaze.blaze.net...
>
> > janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > "Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
>
> > Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>
> Either that, or He plays a really sick game....

No, Alex.
He is in no existence to play any game, sick or otherwise.

bob young

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 7:22:02 AM9/15/08
to

janp...@gmail.com wrote:

> > tss another one god verry boringhttp://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=UhjG47gtMCo&feature=rec-fresh
>
> OK, so what the above proves and how it relates to the fact that God
> intentionally keeps humens uncertain about the existence of God?


> With the totaliztic salute, Jan Pajak

The uncertainly is due to the fact that man has made up all of his gods......

Here are just a few of his...... 'A' gods:

Aeron War [goddess] Wales War
Aeval [goddess] Love, Magic. Ireland
Ahura Mazda
Agrona [goddesss] Destroyer of life
Achall [goddess]Earth and Nature; unhappiness. Ireland
Achtan [goddess] Hunting and wild animals. Ireland
Allah
Adsullata [goddess]
Aphrodite, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Abalim[Judaic] Abba Amona[Judaic] Abraxis[Judaic]
Adam Beliyya'al'[Judaic] Adam Kadmon[Judaic]
Adonai[Judaic] Adonaiel[Judaic]
Aibell [goddess] Beauty; Arts; Magic
Aille [goddess]Justice. Ireland
Aige [goddess] Demi-animals
Aimend [goddess] Sun and Day. Ireland
Aine [goddess] Love and Sexuality
Ailinn [goddess] Love. Ireland
Aidin [goddess] [Aideen] Love and sexuality. Ireland
Aibheaog [goddess] Fire.
Airmed [goddess] Health and healing; Immortality Ireland
Aide [goddess] Water. Ireland - Wife of the Irish god Enna
Artio [goddess] Hunting and Wild Animals Switzerland
Akatriel-Yah[Judaic] Alitha[Judaic]
Alukah(Arpad Yiddish: Estrie)[Judaic] Anafiel[Judaic]
Angels[Judaic] Archons[Judaic] Asherah(Asherah)[Judaic]
Asmodeus(Asmodaios)[Judaic [goddess] Goodness. Ireland
Abaangui Guarani
Aba-khatun [goddess] Russia
Abaris Greek
Abas Greek
Abassi Nigeria/Africa
Abderus Greek
Abeguwo [goddess] Oceania
Abeona [goddess] Roman
Abere [goddess] Oceania
Ab Kin Xoc Maya
Abnoba [goddess] Celtic
Abraxas Roman
Abuk [goddess] Dinka/Africa
Abundantia [goddess] Roman
Acamas Greek
Acantha [goddess] Greek
Acat Maya
Acaviser [goddess] Roman
Acca [goddess] Roman
Acca Larentia [goddess] Roman
Achall [goddess] Irish
Achelois [goddess] Greek
Achelous Greek
Achilles Greek
Achtan [goddess] Irish
Achtland [goddess] Celtic
Acis Greek
Aclla [goddess] Inca
Acna [goddess] Maya/Mexico
Actaeon Greek
Adad Babylonian
Adamanthea [goddess] Greek
Adamisil Wedo [goddess] Haiti
Adapa Babylonian
Adaro Oceania
Adeona [goddess] Roman
Aditi [goddess] Asian
Adityas Asian
Admeta [goddess] Roman
Admete [goddess] Greek
Admetus Greek
Adonis Greek
Adrammelech Babylonia
Adrastus Greek
Adsagsona [goddess] Celtic
Adu Ogyinae Ashanti/Africa
Aeacus Greek
Aebh [goddess] Celtic
Aed Celtic
A don [goddess] Greek
Aedos [goddess] Roman
Aega [goddess] Greek
Aegeria [goddess] Roman
Aegeus Greek
Aegina [goddess] Greek
Aegir Norse
Aegis Greek
Aegisthus Greek
Aegyptus Greek
Aello [goddess] Greek Amazon
Aeneas Greek
Aeneas Roman
Aeolus Greek
Aero [goddess] Greek
Aeron Celtic
Aerope [goddess] Greek
Aesculapius Asclepius Greek
Aesir Norse
°s S£dhe Celtic
Aestas [goddess] Roman
Aether Greek
Aethra [goddess] Greek
Aetna [goddess] Roman
Afekan [goddess] Oceania
Agaman Nibo [goddess] Haiti
Agamedes Greek
Agamemnon Greek
Agasaya [goddess] Semite
Agave [goddess] Greek............


"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one
fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will
understand why I dismiss yours."
[Stephen Roberts]

Bob
Humanist, atheist, realist, sentimentalist, Brit.

Man creates his gods in his own image;
and then spends the rest of his life
manipulating them to his heart's content.


bob young

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 7:23:02 AM9/15/08
to

duke wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:


>
> >janp...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
> >
> >Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
>

> Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.

he exists only in your warped mind Dook

>
>
> duke, American-American
> *****
> "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
> Pope Paul VI
> *****

bob young

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 7:27:01 AM9/15/08
to

"Syd M." wrote:

> On Sep 13, 1:05 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
> >

> > >janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > >"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
> >
> > >Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
> >
> > Oh, he exists.  All evidence to be found demands it.
> >

> And yet, you cannot actually produce this evidence.
> Fancy that.
>
> PDW

'Evidence' ?

Dook doesn't need any.

He is what they call 'knowing'

bob young

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 7:29:02 AM9/15/08
to

Syd wrote:

or it it 'twistful' thinking !

>
>
> PDW

bob young

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 7:32:01 AM9/15/08
to

Bill M wrote:

> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:3nsnc4ldhg7b2c32s...@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:09:56 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>janp...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>"Why God keeps people in uncertainty of His existence (JP)"
> >>
> >>Maybe because he just doesn't exist...
> >
> > Oh, he exists. All evidence to be found demands it.
>
> Dukey, you keep making this claim but NEVER supply any OBJECTIVE VERFIABLE
> EVIDENCE! Are you just dishonest or moronic???

Most likely 'Brainwashed from the cradle '

One of Christianities' most horrific crimes

Lies passed on from generation to generation. After all,
we can't call our own parents charlatans can we ?

Bob
Humanist, atheist, realist, sentimentalist, Brit.

Man creates his gods in his own image;
and then spends the rest of his life
manipulating them to his heart's content.


>
>

bob young

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 7:33:01 AM9/15/08
to

"Alex W." wrote:

....it goes with his thick skin


bob young

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 7:34:01 AM9/15/08
to

Ronald Turner wrote:

"Naaaaaaay"


Ronald Turner

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 9:39:18 AM9/15/08
to

But Yappy, how can He be "sick or otherwise", and be "in no
existence to play any game" at the same time ?
That just don't make any sense.

Or, you can look at it the other way around. How can He not
be (in existence), and be "sick or otherwise" simultaneously ?

You need to check your premises, and rethink your philosophy.

Smiler

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 7:02:07 PM9/15/08
to

What didn't you understand about "No, Alex."?
Was it the letters or the words?

Ronald Turner

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 8:10:26 PM9/15/08
to

Neither.

It was what he wrote after that.

It's not that hard to figure out.

You can do it. Just try.


T-minus108

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 10:01:23 PM9/15/08
to
The fact is, God hasn't shown s/he's real, much less manipulating or
"planning" our future.

The only God I know is deep inside me and my thoughts... but I like to
call it the universe...

"Universe! You've done it again!"
- Tobias Funke

Yap

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 10:15:29 PM9/15/08
to

I think you did not read properly.
I said that he is in non-existence to play any sick game, with
reference to the sentence by Alex.
And this is very true for the period since more than 2000+ years ago.
Deep down you heart, you know that.
Unlike buying a insurance, your belief has no value.

Ronald Turner

unread,
Sep 15, 2008, 10:31:06 PM9/15/08
to

As long as I know you're wrong, that all that matters to me.

You don't believe, because you have not be chosen to believe.

Don't worry. You'll see what I'm talking about later.

Until then, I can wait. I'm in no hurry.

janp...@gmail.com

unread,
Sep 16, 2008, 12:48:49 AM9/16/08
to
On Sep 15, 11:22 pm, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
...

> The uncertainly is due to the fact that man has made up all of his gods......
>
> Here are just a few of his...... 'A' gods:
>
> Aeron War [goddess] Wales War
> Aeval [goddess] Love, Magic. Ireland
> Ahura Mazda
> Agrona [goddesss] Destroyer of life
> Achall [goddess]Earth and Nature; unhappiness. Ireland
> Achtan [goddess] Hunting and wild animals. Ireland
...
...

> Agamemnon Greek
> Agasaya [goddess] Semite
> Agave [goddess] Greek............
...
> "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one
> fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will
> understand why I dismiss yours."
> [Stephen Roberts]
...
NO, I am NOT an atheist - I would NOT dare. After all, I am this
scientist who has proven formally the existence of God (see the web
page "god.htm" indicated below). Also I already know what God does to
these people who fulfil the God's definition of "atheists". I would
NOT like to be in their skin. So when talking about atheists, for sure
you can minus one person - myself.

When your long list of "gods" is concerned, it only confirms the main
thesis of this thread - namely that the only God maintains all people
in the lack of certainty about His existence. So you also took wrong
this list - it does NOT certify at all what you intended to certify
with it. By the way, on my web page "god.htm" (e.g. see it at the
address http://jan-pajak.com/god.htm ) there is an exact definition of
what God really is. Most of "gods" from the list you provided do NOT
meet this definition.

Masked Avenger

unread,
Sep 16, 2008, 1:54:34 AM9/16/08
to

You're a Lunatic ..... there is NO God ....... anywhere, anytime ......
the fact that you claim to have proven his existence only makes it more
certain you're a nutjob ...... does your 'proof of God' qualify for a
Nobel prize ??? if it is true ... it would ...... maybe you should have
a chat with George Hammond ...... both of you are obviously batshit
crazy .....

--
MA ....Yoiks .... and away .....

Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity
............. and I'm not sure about the Universe ..........
- A. Einstein

Does Schrödinger's cat have 18 half lives ?

Yap

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Sep 16, 2008, 2:21:23 AM9/16/08
to

Oh, if I read you correctly, you are saying that I have not been
chosen by him to believe?
I don't know the reason, neither would I want to be chosen.

In fact, if he were able to appear, I would be one of the first to
scream murder at him, while you will be like a dog with his tail
tacked under. A pity sight.

Hatter

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Sep 16, 2008, 8:31:22 AM9/16/08
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> addresshttp://jan-pajak.com/god.htm) there is an exact definition of

> what God really is. Most of "gods" from the list you provided do NOT
> meet this definition.
>
> With the totaliztic salute,
> Jan Pajak

Your "god" proof is ludicrous...it ignores counterevidence, loaded
with special pleading, and is circular logic. You fail.

Hatter

clamato

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Sep 16, 2008, 10:02:20 AM9/16/08
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On Sep 15, 11:48 pm, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:

> When your long list of "gods" is concerned, it only confirms the main
> thesis of this thread - namely that the only God maintains all people
> in the lack of certainty about His existence. So you also took wrong
> this list - it does NOT certify at all what you intended to certify
> with it. By the way, on my web page "god.htm" (e.g. see it at the

> addresshttp://jan-pajak.com/god.htm) there is an exact definition of


> what God really is. Most of "gods" from the list you provided do NOT
> meet this definition.
>
> With the totaliztic salute,
> Jan Pajak

I notice you've stopped posting your page at
http://jan-pajak.com/god_proof.htm
where the holy tree you have pictures of
turns out to be a feature at Disney's
Epcot center!

Silly crooked little man.

Ronald Turner

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Sep 16, 2008, 10:40:07 AM9/16/08
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From everything I've noticed so far, that assumption is correct.

> I don't know the reason, neither would I want to be chosen.

There's further proof that the assumption is correct.

> In fact, if he were able to appear, I would be one of the first to
> scream murder at him, while you will be like a dog with his tail
> tacked under. A pity sight.

You've got it all wrong, as usual. But, anyway, I'm glad you think so.
That's just further proof that my assumption about you is correct.

V

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Sep 16, 2008, 10:43:36 AM9/16/08
to
I believe God is silent because God is a myth..but a myth mankind
needs in order to not self-destruct.

You see, what is logical is not always practical when it comes to
humans.

Religion, atheism and science all serve their purposes. They do not
replace each other, but compliment humanity in their own distinctive
efforts.

We need all sorts in the world.

Atheists keep the theists honest.

Atheists help keep the theists on track when they slip up.

Atheist calm the theists down when theists start talking about killing
in the name of God or Allah.

And theists also help the atheists by giving the atheists something to
do as they go through life working to destroy religion.

The facts are this: when people are devoid of religion...they
generally stink as humans.

Until atheism can replace theist based religion as a VIABLE and REAL
way to inner peace, with a reverence of humanity, it can never take
over the world and extinguish religion.

When you get rid of one thing, it makes room for another.

Sure atheist can succeed at pointing to the flaws of religious
thought, but they have nothing to replace the flaws with. Religion
provides a set of prepackaged morals.

So theists choose the lesser of two evils while on earth, with the
hopes of hitting the jackpot in the hereafter.

When atheists become successes at 'the religion of humanity,' they may
become more successful at replacing theist based religion.

Until that time..."a mans mind may be likened to a garden which may be
intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether
cultivated or neglected, it must and will bring forth. If no useful
seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless 'weed seeds' will
fall therein and will continue to produce their kind." ~ James Allen

And religion does a good job at controlling the weeds.

Humans need moral guidance or a moral conscience since they have a
'free will' of sorts.

Actually it is like this.

We are free to do what we want -- but are not free to want what we
want.

All our actions have consequences, and many of our actions produce
consequences that end up destroying peace. (both ours and other's
peace).

This is what separates us from the animals that run solely on
instinct.

Humans run by instinct as well as moral guidance.

Whether this moral conscience in divinely inspired or from Nature I
don't know - that is why I am an agnostic.

But If I had to guess I would lean towards the atheistic view of
Nature based, since I have not found any evidence of a God such as the
monotheists claim.

....my discussion of this topic from an earlier post.

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=504.0


Take care,


V (Male)

Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
Futurist
Urban Homesteader
Agnostic minister of secular humanism to the mind manacled,
spiritually sick, defiance based atheist.
AA#2


http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk187/fookisan/victorygarden.jpg

John J

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Sep 16, 2008, 10:59:41 AM9/16/08
to
On Sep 15, 11:48 pm, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:

> By the way, on my web page "god.htm" (e.g. see it at the
> addresshttp://jan-pajak.com/god.htm) there is an exact definition of
> what God really is. Most of "gods" from the list you provided do NOT
> meet this definition.
>
> With the totaliztic salute,
> Jan Pajak

I went to your home page. I find it entertaining to learn that Walt
Disney is god.

clamato

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Sep 16, 2008, 11:39:26 AM9/16/08
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Hatter

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Sep 16, 2008, 12:12:00 PM9/16/08
to
On Sep 13, 12:29 pm, "pba...@worldonline.nl" <pba...@worldonline.nl>
wrote:
>    1.
>
> > If we are to believe in claims of subsequent religious institutions,
> > our planet Earth is packed with atheists, while only rare people
> > believe in God.
>
> I do not know any religious institution that claims so
>
>   2
>
> > Also such an opinion prevails amongst a majority of
> > people, who are convinced that in present times individuals who
> > believe in God are a real rarity.
>
> I am sure only a small foolish minority thinks so.
>
>   3.
>
> > Practically, almost 100% of people, at the bottom
> > of their heart believe in the existence of some superior being with
> > attributes of God.
>
> Probably not more than 90%
>
>    4.
>
> >  But it
> > is well known that presently the USA belongs to one amongst the most
> > atheistic countries of our planet
>
> In the USA 80% believes in a God.
> The most atheistic country in the world is Czechia
>
> But your main thesis is correct.
> If their is a god, that god does not seem to  want the people to know
> about him.
>
> Let's please that god:-)
>
> Love.
>
> Peter van Velzen
> September 2008
> Amstelveen
> The Netherlands

I don't believe there is a God, but if there is, the best way to know
him would be through an unbiased seeking of the way his creation, the
universe, works rather than delving into books that seem to be
fiction, halucinations, lies, and people guessing.

Hatter

Devils Advocaat

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Sep 16, 2008, 12:52:44 PM9/16/08
to
On 14 Sep, 17:02, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:47:58 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism
> Devils Advocaat <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> <e5ec9241-ea6d-421b-8901-aa58f254c...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:

>
>
>
>
>
> >On 13 Sep, 06:29, janpa...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> If we are to believe in claims of subsequent religious institutions,
> >> our planet Earth is packed with atheists, while only rare people
> >> believe in God.
>
> >The Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary gathers considerable data on
> >the various religions, denominations and non-religious types around
> >the world on a regular basis.
>
> >Their most recent publication gives the following mid-2007 estimates:
>
> >World Population: 6.616 billion
>
> >Christians: 2.196 billion
>
> >Non-Christians: 4.420 billion
>
> >And of this last figure, only 154 million are atheists.
>
> >Which is about 2.33% of the entire planetary population.
>
> >So perhaps the sources causing the concern expressed in your opening
> >statement are lumping the non-Christians in with the atheists to make
> >the world look bad.
>
> But don't forget that the family of religions known as "Christian"
> disagrees so much with each other that there are thousands of
> denominations, including denominations dishonestly entitled
> 'nondenominational'.

Indeed I am aware of that, according to the source I cited earlier the
mid-2007 estimate for the number of Christian denominations was
39,000.

Cory Albrecht

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Sep 16, 2008, 6:11:03 PM9/16/08
to
Devils Advocaat wrote, on 2008-09-16 12:52:
> Indeed I am aware of that, according to the source I cited earlier the
> mid-2007 estimate for the number of Christian denominations was
> 39,000.

I'm curious - what are the criteria for deciding whether something is a
"denomination"?

For example, In the past there used to be the Mennonite Church and the
General Conference Mennonite Church. These were both trans-national
organizations (Canada & USA) and even though they cooperate don a great
many things, they were were still alternative choices to each other -
where I live about 60% of the Mennonite churches were MC and 40% GCMC.
An individual church congregation could leave one organization and go to
the other. If you moved from one country to the other you could attend a
church in the same organization and still maintain a voice in how that
organization was run. So to me, that would make sense to consider these
two separate denominations.

But in the late 1990s and early 2000s the two organizations merged
forming the single organization Mennonite Church which then split along
national boundaries and became MC Canada and MC USA. Now these two
organizations cooperate very closely - many programmes, rather than
being duplicated, are administered by one organization with only
financial input from the other - but they still make their decisions
independently and share no common hierarchy. But now if a church would
decide to leave MC USA it could not go and join MC Canada like it could
do before, and if you move cross-border and join another church you are
no longer part of the old organization. So to me this is more like a
single denomination that is divided into regional organizations for
administrative reasons.

Also, there are a lot of single churches that belong to no
denominational organization - if each one of them is documented as a
separate denomination that would unduly inflate the total number of
denominations.

What are the criteria?

janp...@gmail.com

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Sep 16, 2008, 9:04:12 PM9/16/08
to
On Sep 17, 4:52 am, Devils Advocaat <mankyg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
...

> > But don't forget that the family of religions known as "Christian"
> > disagrees so much with each other that there are thousands of
> > denominations, including denominations dishonestly entitled
> > 'nondenominational'.
>
> Indeed I am aware of that, according to the source I cited earlier the
> mid-2007 estimate for the number of Christian denominations was
> 39,000.- Hide quoted text -

The problem with Christianity, as well as with all other religions to-
date, is that they are NOT based on any scientific foundations which
would allow to investigate God and confirm the correctness of these
investigations in empirical manner - as this is done by the "theory of
everything" named the Concept of Dipolar Gravity (see the web page
"dipolar_gravity.htm" on the web site http://jan-pajak.com/dipolar_gravity.htm
). In the result all religions are just human guesses gradually build
up on very sparse information which God provided about Himself to
humans in a divine manner. This is the cause why religions split into
as many branches and denominations as many different ideas people can
invent or guess about God. However, all this does NOT contradict the
existence of God nor contradicts the main thesis of this thread -
namely that for the "higher reasons" God maintains people in the lack


of certainty about His existence.

Fortunately for us, we now have the "theory of everything" called the
Concept of Dipolar Gravity, which eliminates guesses and allows to
invcestigate God scientifically. In addition it allows to confirm
empirically the correctness of outcomes from these investigations of
God. So now we can gradually build up the true picture of God, thus
eliminating guesses which previously so dominated practically every
religion. The true picture of God which emerges from the Concept of
Dipolar Gravity is very amazing. For example, it shows that God is NOT
just an old, a bit sclerotic male with unlimited capacitance to
forgine our sins. God is actually a cold, merciless computer program
which notices every our mistake and every nasty thing that we have
done, and then punishes us mercilessly for all our nasty behaviours.
The true picture of this God started to emerge from findings how this
software God evolved in the liquid computer that the Concept of
Dipolar Gravity calls "counter-matter" - this evolution of God is
described on the totaliztic web page "evolution.htm" which can be
viewed, amongst others, at the web site http://jan-pajak.com/evolution.htm
. The further analyses have shown that the true God uses so-called
"evil" in the same manner as He uses so-called "good" - for example
see part F on the web page "god.htm" - at the address http://jan-pajak.com/god.htm
. What even more interesting, this true God "simulates" the temporary
existence of very evil, human-like creatures which in past were called
"devils" while right now are called "UFOnauts". To be more strange,
all signs indicate that these creatures (i.e God's simulations called
"UFOnauts") are anonymously present in Internet, and are even writing
their posts on this thread - as I indicated this in my earlier threads
devoted to the matter of these creatures.

THE BORG

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Sep 17, 2008, 5:37:37 PM9/17/08
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"Hatter" <Hatt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3abe4f9-df86-4091...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

Hatter

You can say they or she or even it rather than he if you prefer.
And you should also understand suffering.
Once you have done all the above you say - understand all naturally and not
by books and also understand suffering THEN you are well on the way to a
good understanding of the true situation.
THE BORG

T-minus108

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Sep 17, 2008, 8:14:48 PM9/17/08
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On Sep 17, 5:37 pm, "THE BORG" <theb...@homesweethome.com> wrote:

> understand all naturally and not by books and also understand suffering THEN you are well on the way to a good understanding of the true situation.

> THE BORG

"The true situation"... Which is, man created god in his own image,
then put it in a book (book of lies) and sold it.

Now we have Religious corperations that have their own armies and have
more power and weapons than our governments do... and there's still
that place... "church" where "god" lives, and the masses give still
give up all their money to go to heaven.

The reality of the situation is that the only true gods are within
us...

"I see the strings that control the system, I can do anything with no
resistance"
- Flobots

adman

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Sep 17, 2008, 10:25:32 PM9/17/08
to


it is scary to know there are people that think like this.

Bob Casanova

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Sep 18, 2008, 4:46:44 PM9/18/08