bootloader corrupt?
Beowulf
is fine> I built a new PC (new motherboard, new CPU), transferred my three
IDE hard drives and DVDRW drive to the new system in exactly the same
configuration (same master/slave arrangement on IDE cables, no alteration
of jumpers on drives, etc). Now if I choose Windows from LILO I get a blue
screen with long hex code error codes with Windows complaining that the
drives may be installed incorrectly, to check cables, etc.
Any suggestions? Should I drive to boot a Win98/DOS rescue disc and do a
"fdisk /mbr" and the use the Mandriva install DVD to restore LILO? Other
options?
James J. Dines
This is another advantage Linux has over Windows (I am assuming you have
different motherboard and CPU types, and not the same exact
manufacturer, model, and revision here.)
You cannot simply drop a Windows XP installation into a machine with
different hardware and have it boot in many cases! Unless the hardware
is very similar you will get the Boot Screen of Death (meet the new
BSOD, same as the old BSOD) ;-)
Put the drive back in your old machine, back up all of your data, then
move it to your new machine, re-install Windows XP, re-install Windows
XP Drivers, re-install all of your applications, restore your data, and
try to keep in mind at all times that "Windows just works" ;-)
CAVEAT: I would wait to see if somebody else has a work-around on this
before following the above advice, in case there IS a way around this
and I have just never heard of it. The basic point remains though ...
Windows just ... what?
Good Luck!
--
****** Warning - Highly US-Centric .sig approaching! ******
The only way to differentiate "The War on Terrorism"
from "The War on Drugs" is to measure the amount of piss
on the Founding Fathers graves. - James J. Dines
Bit Twister
> I can not dual boot into WindowsXP any more,
HAHahahah, guessing the Micro$not "lets's check hardware to see if
this is a legal install" blew up in you face. XP runs a hardware check
and if too many items, cpu, memory, drives, bios,... are different it
will not want to play nice. If you read your End User Licence Agreement you
click everytime you have to install something, somewhere along the
line you agreed the Micro$not can only be installed only on the
original system you bought the software with/for. :-)
Does not matter that the box melted to the ground. You are supposed to
fork over another ~$200 for the os to start over.
> however my boot into Mandriva
> is fine> I built a new PC (new motherboard, new CPU), transferred my three
> IDE hard drives and DVDRW drive to the new system in exactly the same
> configuration (same master/slave arrangement on IDE cables, no alteration
> of jumpers on drives, etc). Now if I choose Windows from LILO I get a blue
> screen with long hex code error codes with Windows complaining that the
> drives may be installed incorrectly, to check cables, etc.
Well you should be able to check that drive contents are readable and
first drive is hda, second drive is hdb,..... using diskdrake,
fdisk or cfdisk.
> Any suggestions? Should I drive to boot a Win98/DOS rescue disc and do a
> "fdisk /mbr"
no idea if win89 can fix XP. Their cd uses something like FIXMBR.
Never done it myself, You could try booting xp cd, hit R as it boots
to get into a recovery mode.
> and the use the Mandriva install DVD to restore LILO? Other options?
If you have a diskette drive, I would try doing a
lilo -b /dev/fd0
change the bios to boot floppy, verify diskette boots your system,
Then play micro$not commands to get back into your doze software.
Note, I have used my OEM cd to re-install XP and it played nice and only
wrote into the doze partition I srank for linux. I was impressed. :)
I did this on another box for a friend, their OEM disk, wipped the
drive of all partitions and restored XP. :(
James J. Dines
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:59:04 -0500, Beowulf wrote:
>> I can not dual boot into WindowsXP any more,
>
>> Any suggestions? Should I drive to boot a Win98/DOS rescue disc and do a
>> "fdisk /mbr"
>
****************** DO NOT DO 'fdisk /mbr' ******************
This will write the standard M$ Bootsector over your Bootloader and you
will no longer be able to boot Linux either, unless you have a rescue
floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as the
knowledge of *how* to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
non-trivial task.
> no idea if win89 can fix XP. Their cd uses something like FIXMBR.
> Never done it myself, You could try booting xp cd, hit R as it boots
> to get into a recovery mode.
The Bootloader is working fine. It merely uses the chain option to load
the image that was on the bootsector prior to installing Linux and then
executes it.
If your bootloader was not workiny you would not get the Boot Screen of
Death from XP.
>
>> and the use the Mandriva install DVD to restore LILO? Other options?
>
> If you have a diskette drive, I would try doing a
> lilo -b /dev/fd0
> change the bios to boot floppy, verify diskette boots your system,
> Then play micro$not commands to get back into your doze software.
>
> Note, I have used my OEM cd to re-install XP and it played nice and only
> wrote into the doze partition I srank for linux. I was impressed. :)
>
> I did this on another box for a friend, their OEM disk, wipped the
> drive of all partitions and restored XP. :(
>
Many OEM CDs (most?) insist on using up the entire Disk, overwriting
whatever was there originally, and they don't always explicitly warn you
that they are going to do it!
Beowulf
...
> Put the drive back in your old machine, back up all of your data, then
> move it to your new machine, re-install Windows XP, re-install Windows
> XP Drivers, re-install all of your applications, restore your data, and
> try to keep in mind at all times that "Windows just works" ;-)
>
> CAVEAT: I would wait to see if somebody else has a work-around on this
> before following the above advice, in case there IS a way around this
> and I have just never heard of it. The basic point remains though ...
Oh thank you very much Micro$hit once again (I am being sarcastic of
course)-- wow, what a great O$ that Winblow$ is. I have a legal copy of
Winblows and now my system is messed up just because I decided to built a
better PC. Well, I might just delete the whole MS-Windows XP partition and
be done with it, I was in fact thinking of removing it anyhow. Luckily I
had the foresight to have all my winblows data on a fat32 partition
separate from the WinXp OS. So I might just delete WinXP and use that
space for Cedega gaming, playing Windows games with Linux. Hasta la vista,
Microsoft.
~ One angry owner of Winblows.
sid
>>> Any suggestions? Should I drive to boot a Win98/DOS rescue disc and do a
>>> "fdisk /mbr"
>>
>
> ****************** DO NOT DO 'fdisk /mbr' ******************
He can try that but it probably wont work anyway.
> This will write the standard M$ Bootsector over your Bootloader and you
> will no longer be able to boot Linux either, unless you have a rescue
> floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as the
> knowledge of *how* to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
> non-trivial task.
Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at the
prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader option.
Couldn't be easier :)
If you want to be more complicated, something like this will also do the
job:
Boot with your install disc No1, press F1, type rescue, mnt your partitions,
go to console,
[root@rescue/]# mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1
[root@rescue/]# chroot /mnt/hda1
[root@rescue/]# lilo
Warning: '/proc/partitions does not exist, disc scan bypassed
Added linux
linux-nonfb
failsafe
2612-18*
[root@rescue/]#exit
--
sid
RLU 300284
Mandriva 2006
2.6.12.18
James J. Dines
> James J. Dines wrote:
>
>>>> Any suggestions? Should I drive to boot a Win98/DOS rescue disc and do a
>>>> "fdisk /mbr"
>> ****************** DO NOT DO 'fdisk /mbr' ******************
>
> He can try that but it probably wont work anyway.
>
It will cause his system to be unbootable, as I stated ...
>> This will write the standard M$ Bootsector over your Bootloader and you
>> will no longer be able to boot Linux either, unless you have a rescue
>> floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as the
>> knowledge of *how* to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
>> non-trivial task.
>
> Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at the
> prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader option.
> Couldn't be easier :)
You seem to interpret my statement: '(using) a Live CD requires
knowledge of how to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
non-trivial task' somehow involves inserting a recovery floppy / Install
CD and using it. This is the result of my run-on sentence, I suppose.
You see, language *is* important ;-)
> If you want to be more complicated, something like this will also do the
> job:
>
No. I don't want to be more complicated. That is why I simply told the
OP not to do 'fdisk /mbr', thereby avoiding the need to do any of this ;-)
> Boot with your install disc No1, press F1, type rescue, mnt your partitions,
> go to console,
>
> [root@rescue/]# mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda1
> [root@rescue/]# chroot /mnt/hda1
> [root@rescue/]# lilo
> Warning: '/proc/partitions does not exist, disc scan bypassed
> Added linux
> linux-nonfb
> failsafe
> 2612-18*
> [root@rescue/]#exit
>
Well this won't fix my machine if I am ever so foolish as to do 'fdisk
/mbr' with a win98 floppy, because I use grub ;-)
Also, I am not sure if the install CD supports ReiserFS and LVM ...
... Of course, I suppose I could be explicit about where to find my
kernel and initrd image, etc and boot it explicitly (haven't tried this,
but it seems like it should be doable), but then we are back to the
non-trivial task thing.
The absolute simplest way to deal with the problem is to never cause it
in the first place, which means don't do 'fdisk /mbr'
;-)
P.
> Any suggestions? Should I drive to boot a Win98/DOS rescue disc and do a
> "fdisk /mbr" and the use the Mandriva install DVD to restore LILO? Other
> options?
Couldn't you pop the XP HDD in on its own as master and do a 'rescue' with
the XP CD? Then put the other disks back in in the original config and
point the bootloader back at the XP partition?
P.
--
"This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not
God who kills the children. Not Fate that butchers them or Destiny that
feeds them to dogs. It's us. Only us." - Rorschach, Watchmen
Beowulf
..
> The absolute simplest way to deal with the problem is to never cause it
> in the first place, which means don't do 'fdisk /mbr'
> ;-)
Ok I am not going to use fdisk, going to think a day or two on the matter,
make sure i have no data on WinXP partition, then either reinstall WinXp
or f*** it and delete it and use the disk space for maybe Xen or VMware or
Cedega, etc. The 1% of the time I use WinXP on this PC I could do that 1%
stuff on my dual boot laptop, I do not really need WinXP, about all I was
using it for was iTunes but I can ditch that I did not use it that much
anyhow except for podcasts which I can do with linux castpodder.
sid
>> He can try that but it probably wont work anyway.
> It will cause his system to be unbootable, as I stated ...
Has anyone disputed that fact? No.
>>> This will write the standard M$ Bootsector over your Bootloader and you
>>> will no longer be able to boot Linux either, unless you have a rescue
>>> floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as the
>>> knowledge of *how* to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
>>> non-trivial task.
>>
>> Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at the
>> prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader option.
>> Couldn't be easier :)
>
> You seem to interpret my statement: '(using) a Live CD requires
> knowledge of how to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
> non-trivial task' somehow involves inserting a recovery floppy / Install
> CD and using it. This is the result of my run-on sentence, I suppose.
> You see, language *is* important ;-)
What are you trying to say here, are you wriggling again? You don't even
seem to be able to quote yourself properly. The op even suggested himself
that he could use a Mandriva install disk. It is a trivial exercise.
> Well this won't fix my machine if I am ever so foolish as to do 'fdisk
> /mbr' with a win98 floppy, because I use grub ;-)
Well no one was talking about your bootloader. The op stated he was using
lilo so that's what the reply involved.
> Also, I am not sure if the install CD supports ReiserFS and LVM ...
It wouldn't need to to use the rescue mode reinstall bootloader option would
it?
James J. Dines
> James J. Dines wrote:
>
>>> He can try that but it probably wont work anyway.
>
>> It will cause his system to be unbootable, as I stated ...
>
> Has anyone disputed that fact? No.
When properly quoted, so that it is plainly evident that you were in
fact disputing the fact:
From the parent post:
##########################################################################
>>> Any suggestions? Should I drive to boot a Win98/DOS rescue disc and do a
>>> >>> "fdisk /mbr"
>> >>
> >
> > ****************** DO NOT DO 'fdisk /mbr' ******************
He can try that but it probably wont work anyway.
#########################################################################
Unless 'He can try that but it probably won't work' means 'I agree with
you, he shouldn't do that because it will overwrite LILO with the
Windows bootloader and make his system unbootable', then yes, you
clearly did dispute the fact that he shouldn't do 'fdisk /mbr' ..
>
>>>> This will write the standard M$ Bootsector over your Bootloader and you
>>>> will no longer be able to boot Linux either, unless you have a rescue
>>>> floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as the
>>>> knowledge of *how* to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
>>>> non-trivial task.
>>> Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at the
>>> prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader option.
>>> Couldn't be easier :)
>> You seem to interpret my statement: '(using) a Live CD requires
>> knowledge of how to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
>> non-trivial task' somehow involves inserting a recovery floppy / Install
>> CD and using it. This is the result of my run-on sentence, I suppose.
>> You see, language *is* important ;-)
>
> What are you trying to say here, are you wriggling again? You don't even
> seem to be able to quote yourself properly. The op even suggested himself
> that he could use a Mandriva install disk. It is a trivial exercise.
>
No need to 'wriggle' ... You tie one statement I made to a virtually
unrelated statement I made (related only in the fact that they were both
part of a run-on sentence.) I was giving you an out and indicating my
willingness to take the blame since run-on sentences can be hard to
interpret.
OTOH, the paragraph beginning with 'You seem to interpret ..' from me
was quite clear, so I rescind my willingness to take the blame. You
clearly have no interest in the facts at the present time ...
>> Well this won't fix my machine if I am ever so foolish as to do 'fdisk
>> /mbr' with a win98 floppy, because I use grub ;-)
>
> Well no one was talking about your bootloader. The op stated he was using
> lilo so that's what the reply involved.
No. The reply involved your attempt to twist what I wrote around, and
to challenge a statement you claim I made when I in fact made no such
claim. It also involved telling someone they *CAN* use 'fdisk /mbr' even
though doing so would in fact make their system unbootable.
The words from you to which I am *now* replying involve you trying to
'wriggle' out of the whole thing by accusing me of 'wriggling' out of
something when it is you that is doing the 'wriggling.'
Nothing about any exchange between you and me in this thread had
anything to do with the OPs problem since the OPs problem was not LILO
related, as I had already stated quite clearly by the time you got involved.
In fact, your involvement began when you ignored the fact that the
bootloader was not the issue, and told the OP he *could* use 'fdisk
/mbr' even though I had already stated that LILO was not the issue and
that doing so would make his system unbootable.
>
>> Also, I am not sure if the install CD supports ReiserFS and LVM ...
>
> It wouldn't need to to use the rescue mode reinstall bootloader option would
> it?
>
To put LILO on the MBR it would not need these things, but that doesn't
mean LILO would be properly configured to actually boot my system if I
*was* using LILO. I am unsure what parts of the filesystem it needs to
access to set things up to put things back to a bootable state as
configured on my machine. Presumable it only needs /boot, in which case
it would work. If however it needs other parts of the file hierarchy
then it would be SOL.
(If David W. Hodgins is reading this, I have found that you *can* put /
on LVM with ReiserFS these days if you use mkinitrd properly.)
Summary:
Your first response started with the statement 'He can try that but it
probably wont work anyway' after my explicit statement:
DO NOT DO 'fdisk /mbr' in capitol letters surrounded by asterisks.
In the past you have had some good things to say in this group. When
you have done so I put aside past differences we have had and I openly
acknowledged that you have. There is no reason for you to go down the
path that one or three other ne'r do wells here have chosen; it is clear
that you *can* offer positive input to the group when you try ....
sid
> Unless 'He can try that but it probably won't work' means 'I agree with
> you, he shouldn't do that because it will overwrite LILO with the
> Windows bootloader and make his system unbootable', then yes, you
> clearly did dispute the fact that he shouldn't do 'fdisk /mbr' ..
Which bit of "probably wont work anyway" did you fail to understand?
>>>>> This will write the standard M$ Bootsector over your Bootloader and
>>>>> you will no longer be able to boot Linux either, unless you have a
>>>>> rescue floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well
>>>>> as the knowledge of *how* to use it to fix the situation, and this is
>>>>> a non-trivial task.
>>>> Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at
>>>> the prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader
>>>> option. Couldn't be easier :)
>>> You seem to interpret my statement: '(using) a Live CD requires
>>> knowledge of how to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
>>> non-trivial task' somehow involves inserting a recovery floppy / Install
>>> CD and using it. This is the result of my run-on sentence, I suppose.
>>> You see, language *is* important ;-)
>>
>> What are you trying to say here, are you wriggling again? You don't even
>> seem to be able to quote yourself properly. The op even suggested himself
>> that he could use a Mandriva install disk. It is a trivial exercise.
>>
>
> No need to 'wriggle' ... You tie one statement I made to a virtually
> unrelated statement I made (related only in the fact that they were both
> part of a run-on sentence.) I was giving you an out and indicating my
> willingness to take the blame since run-on sentences can be hard to
> interpret.
Giving me an "out" for what? You said quite plainly that restoring a
bootloader with a rescue disk was "non-trivial task". I replied that it is
trivial. There is no misunderstanding on my part. If you don't mean what
you write then I suggest you think a little bit harder about making clear
what you do mean before you hit the send button. So all us thickies will
have no bovver interpreting what you really mean.
> OTOH, the paragraph beginning with 'You seem to interpret ..' from me
> was quite clear, so I rescind my willingness to take the blame. You
> clearly have no interest in the facts at the present time ...
What are you talking about? There was nothing clear about that paragraph at
all. Remember your talking to thickies here.
>>> Well this won't fix my machine if I am ever so foolish as to do 'fdisk
>>> /mbr' with a win98 floppy, because I use grub ;-)
>>
>> Well no one was talking about your bootloader. The op stated he was using
>> lilo so that's what the reply involved.
>
> No. The reply involved your attempt to twist what I wrote around, and
> to challenge a statement you claim I made when I in fact made no such
> claim.
What?
Quote from you.....
"unless you have a rescue
floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as the
knowledge of how to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
non-trivial task."
Quote from me......
"Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at the
prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader option.
Couldn't be easier :)"
Pretty straight forward I would have thought.
> It also involved telling someone they *CAN* use 'fdisk /mbr' even
> though doing so would in fact make their system unbootable.
He can. He can do whatever he damn pleases. I also said that it probably
wont work, but we've already established that you didn't understand that
bit.
> The words from you to which I am *now* replying involve you trying to
> 'wriggle' out of the whole thing by accusing me of 'wriggling' out of
> something when it is you that is doing the 'wriggling.'
I'm here standing by by statements, no twisting, no turning, no wriggling.
> Nothing about any exchange between you and me in this thread had
> anything to do with the OPs problem since the OPs problem was not LILO
> related, as I had already stated quite clearly by the time you got
> involved.
There you go again, regardless of what you *stated* or *told* the op, you
suggested that reinstalling the bootloader with a rescue disk was
non-trivial. I disagreed with you, and that elicited a wriggling, waffling
blame shifting reply far beyond that which is necessary.
> In fact, your involvement began when you ignored the fact that the
> bootloader was not the issue, and told the OP he *could* use 'fdisk
> /mbr' even though I had already stated that LILO was not the issue and
> that doing so would make his system unbootable.
I ignored nothing at all, I pointed out that restoring the bootloader is
easy.
> In the past you have had some good things to say in this group. When
> you have done so I put aside past differences we have had and I openly
> acknowledged that you have. There is no reason for you to go down the
> path that one or three other ne'r do wells here have chosen; it is clear
> that you *can* offer positive input to the group when you try ....
If you weren't so condescending you might find yourself less likely to end
in the sort of useless diatribe that we have going on here. For someone so
new to the Mand* groups you seem to expect some sort of respect that you
"just haven't earned it yet baby" [1]
[1] extra points for an attribution :)
James J. Dines
> James J. Dines wrote:
>
>> Unless 'He can try that but it probably won't work' means 'I agree with
>> you, he shouldn't do that because it will overwrite LILO with the
>> Windows bootloader and make his system unbootable', then yes, you
>> clearly did dispute the fact that he shouldn't do 'fdisk /mbr' ..
>
> Which bit of "probably wont work anyway" did you fail to understand?
I am failing to understand that "probably won't work anyway" was meant
as a euphemism for "will definitely and without question render your
system unbootable", apparently ;-) I also failed to understand
'probably won't work' as 'probably won't work anyway' And I believe
there was a "He can do this" in response to a DO NOT do this in there as
well ;-)
Your horrible inability to understand things that aren't laid out in
overly simplistic terms, to wit your inability to parse compound
sentence structures ;-)
>
>> OTOH, the paragraph beginning with 'You seem to interpret ..' from me
>> was quite clear, so I rescind my willingness to take the blame. You
>> clearly have no interest in the facts at the present time ...
>
> What are you talking about? There was nothing clear about that paragraph at
> all. Remember your talking to thickies here.
Agreed. Consider 'this is' versus 'these are'. Plug both into the
sentence over and over again until the difference becomes clear to you.
>
>>>> Well this won't fix my machine if I am ever so foolish as to do 'fdisk
>>>> /mbr' with a win98 floppy, because I use grub ;-)
>>> Well no one was talking about your bootloader. The op stated he was using
>>> lilo so that's what the reply involved.
>> No. The reply involved your attempt to twist what I wrote around, and
>> to challenge a statement you claim I made when I in fact made no such
>> claim.
>
> What?
>
> Quote from you.....
> "unless you have a rescue
> floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as the
> knowledge of how to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
> non-trivial task."
In case it wasn't unclear the first two times I explained what was
intended, the Live CD fix is a non-trivial task. Note I use the
singular 'this is' rather than the plural 'these are', which would have
indicated I was referring to the former and latter approach rather than
merely the latter approach ... ;-)
>
> Quote from me......
> "Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at the
> prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader option.
> Couldn't be easier :)"
>
> Pretty straight forward I would have thought.
You seem to have thought that you had actually thought ;-)
Note again 'this is' versus the not used phrase 'these are' ... and how
the fact that I said 'this is' means I never said using the Mandriva CD
or a rescue disk was non-trivial.
>
>> It also involved telling someone they *CAN* use 'fdisk /mbr' even
>> though doing so would in fact make their system unbootable.
>
> He can. He can do whatever he damn pleases. I also said that it probably
> wont work, but we've already established that you didn't understand that
> bit.
And this relates to the OPs question, how? I don't seem to recall him
asking 'could you please tell me the many thing I can damn well do if I
please that will render my system completely unbootable ..'
>
>> The words from you to which I am *now* replying involve you trying to
>> 'wriggle' out of the whole thing by accusing me of 'wriggling' out of
>> something when it is you that is doing the 'wriggling.'
>
> I'm here standing by by statements, no twisting, no turning, no wriggling.
>
Yes. That is the problem ... isn't it ;-) You are standing by your
statements even though they are patently absurd, and that the fact that
they are absurd has been pointed out to you many times now. The
'wriggling' involves accusing me of 'wriggling' ...
>> Nothing about any exchange between you and me in this thread had
>> anything to do with the OPs problem since the OPs problem was not LILO
>> related, as I had already stated quite clearly by the time you got
>> involved.
>
> There you go again, regardless of what you *stated* or *told* the op, you
> suggested that reinstalling the bootloader with a rescue disk was
> non-trivial. I disagreed with you, and that elicited a wriggling, waffling
> blame shifting reply far beyond that which is necessary.
Again, compare and contrast a compound sentence with two ideas in which
the phrase 'this is' was used (thereby referring to the latter idea)
with one using the phrase 'these are' which would have indeed made the
statement you keep insisting on misinterpreting my words to have made.
>
>> In fact, your involvement began when you ignored the fact that the
>> bootloader was not the issue, and told the OP he *could* use 'fdisk
>> /mbr' even though I had already stated that LILO was not the issue and
>> that doing so would make his system unbootable.
>
> I ignored nothing at all, I pointed out that restoring the bootloader is
> easy.
.. a statement which served no purpose, since no different claim was
ever made ..
And don't forget how you also helpfully pointed out that one way to fix
the OPs problem would be to render it completely unbootable with 'fdisk
/mbr' even after I explained in great detail why this would render his
system unbootable.
.. I suppose that *is* one way to fix it *real* good ;-)
>
>> In the past you have had some good things to say in this group. When
>> you have done so I put aside past differences we have had and I openly
>> acknowledged that you have. There is no reason for you to go down the
>> path that one or three other ne'r do wells here have chosen; it is clear
>> that you *can* offer positive input to the group when you try ....
>
> If you weren't so condescending you might find yourself less likely to end
> in the sort of useless diatribe that we have going on here. For someone so
> new to the Mand* groups you seem to expect some sort of respect that you
> "just haven't earned it yet baby" [1]
I find that you have more than earned my condescension. This is not a
boys club. There is no hierarchy or membership. There are likely
thousands of people or more who read this group every week, many of whom
want their problems solved and aren't interested in your idiotic concept
of acceptance through peer pressured conformance.
>
>
> [1] extra points for an attribution :)
>
Extra points if you learn enough about the English language today to
understand compound sentences and the concepts of singular versus
plural. ;-)
sid
> I find that you have more than earned my condescension.
Oh how high and mighty you must be feeling.
You started in that vein, and I have no doubt you will finish in that vein.
read this http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing
I can't think of a reason to carry on with this........
sid: black
jjd: white
sid: black
jjd:white *white* *WHITE*
Whatever I say you'll say I'm misinterpreting your words or twisting your
statements to mean other things, or my understanding of English language is
too poor to comprehend your masterful posts, so it's all a bit pointless
really.
> Extra points if you learn enough about the English language today to
> understand compound sentences and the concepts of singular versus
> plural. ;-)
Extra extra points for you if you learn that people, myself included, will
always pick you up on misleading or incorrect statements.
James J. Dines
> James J. Dines wrote:
>
>> I find that you have more than earned my condescension.
>
> Oh how high and mighty you must be feeling.
I tried to explain to you three different times what was said. Your
lack of understanding of sentence structure and singularity versus
plurality in and of itself was no big deal. It is your insistence on
pursuing your claim that I said something that I did not, even after I
have clearly broken down the sentence into simple terms and pointed out
how you misinterpreted it that earns my condescension.
>
> You started in that vein, and I have no doubt you will finish in that vein.
>
> read this http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing
>
I happened to know that ESR does not advocate lying, which is what I
would be doing if I claimed to say something other than I said just to
make you happy, and feel as if you "won". Nobody "wins" when people like
you get involved in a discussion that is supposed to be about helping
people, rather than attempts at oneupmanship. The fact that you were
willing to advise someone to do something that would render their system
unbootable in order to try to "win" a game of oneupmanship that only you
are playing also earns you my condesension in spades.
> I can't think of a reason to carry on with this........
>
> sid: black
> jjd: white
> sid: black
> jjd:white *white* *WHITE*
Or more accurately:
JJD: A few geometrical figures are the box, the pyramid, and of course
the square, which is always two dimensional.
sid: A box is not two dimensional
JJD: I never said it was.
sid: Yes you did. You are trying to 'wriggle' out of things.
JJD: Uhm .. no ... I said a square is always two dimensional [explains
in great detail]
sid: Oh, you are hiding behind language again instead of just admitting
that you claimed that a box is two dimensional
>
> Whatever I say you'll say I'm misinterpreting your words or twisting your
> statements to mean other things, or my understanding of English language is
> too poor to comprehend your masterful posts, so it's all a bit pointless
> really.
Well, one way you could keep that from happening in the future is to ask
questions about what someone has said when it isn't clear to you,
instead of just picking the interpretation that you feel helps you win a
game of oneupmanship that only you are playing, and sticking with it no
matter how wrong it turns out to be.
>
>> Extra points if you learn enough about the English language today to
>> understand compound sentences and the concepts of singular versus
>> plural. ;-)
You snipped your "Extra" points" comment to which mine was a rhetort, in
order to make it look like I am snide. You were snide, and I rhetorted,
just for the record.
>
> Extra extra points for you if you learn that people, myself included, will
> always pick you up on misleading or incorrect statements.
>
I have learned what I have always known. There are a lot of not very
well educated people in the world, and those people will always blame
others for their failure rather than getting a better education.
Dan C
>>> I find that you have more than earned my condescension.
>> Oh how high and mighty you must be feeling.
> I tried to explain to you three different times what was said. Your
> lack of understanding of sentence structure and singularity versus
> plurality in and of itself was no big deal. It is your insistence on
Horse puckey. You didn't explain anything three times, you just attempted
to cloud the issue and bog things down in pedantic details, to make
yourself appear right. That's what you do.
> pursuing your claim that I said something that I did not, even after I
> have clearly broken down the sentence into simple terms and pointed out
> how you misinterpreted it that earns my condescension.
Did you ever wonder why it only seems to be you who is "misunderstood" and
"misinterpreted" so often? How come the rest of us can understand
everyone else just fine, but a lot of people find you to be a confusing
blowhard? Why is that?
> I happened to know that ESR does not advocate lying, which is what I
> would be doing if I claimed to say something other than I said just to
You lie on a daily basis, right here in this newsgroup. All newbies,
please take note: Take anything said by Dines as potentially wrong and
harmful to your system. He has a proven track record of mistakes and
misinformation, and tries to hide it with "smoke-and-mirror" tactics,
usually identifiable by his (self-proclaimed) master of the English
language. The truth of the matter is that he's a pedantic little man, who
loves to twist the words and context of others, to make himself appear not
quite so inadequate. He is best ignored completely.
<snip>
> JJD: A few geometrical figures are the box, the pyramid, and of course
> the square, which is always two dimensional.
> sid: A box is not two dimensional
> JJD: I never said it was.
> sid: Yes you did. You are trying to 'wriggle' out of things.
> JJD: Uhm .. no ... I said a square is always two dimensional [explains
> in great detail]
> sid: Oh, you are hiding behind language again instead of just admitting
> that you claimed that a box is two dimensional
And there's a perfect example, thanks Dines, for providing it. Just for
explanation, what Dines did here was to substitute the word "box" in the
first Sid line, making it appear that Sid says "box" instead of "square",
which Sid never actually did. That gives him a way out, because of course
a "box" is not 2D. Many folks will miss little details like that, and
this is what Devious Dines counts on, to make himself appear smart. It's
really quite obvious when you take a minute to look at his writing. He's
especially fond of burying the details inside so many levels of quoting
and <snips> that even the original poster would have difficulty
remembering what he said himself.
<snip some more pedantic ranting>
Again, newbies, please do yourselves a big favor, and just killfile/ignore
this blowhard. The hope is that he will soon wander off, just as he
wandered in here not so very long ago.
--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951
sid
> sid wrote:
>> James J. Dines wrote:
>>
>>> I find that you have more than earned my condescension.
>>
>> Oh how high and mighty you must be feeling.
>
> I tried to explain to you three different times what was said. Your
> lack of understanding of sentence structure and singularity versus
> plurality in and of itself was no big deal. It is your insistence on
> pursuing your claim that I said something that I did not, even after I
> have clearly broken down the sentence into simple terms and pointed out
> how you misinterpreted it that earns my condescension.
You said
"This will write the standard M$ Bootsector over your Bootloader and you
will no longer be able to boot Linux either, unless you have a rescue
floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as the
knowledge of how to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
non-trivial task."
I said
"Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at the
prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader option.
Couldn't be easier :)"
What followed was a desperate attempt to change the implied meaning of what
you wrote. I don't know why you do it, I guess it's so you can try and
maintain your feeling of superiority.
>> You started in that vein, and I have no doubt you will finish in that
>> vein.
>>
>> read this http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing
>>
>
> I happened to know that ESR does not advocate lying, which is what I
> would be doing if I claimed to say something other than I said just to
> make you happy, and feel as if you "won". Nobody "wins" when people like
> you get involved in a discussion that is supposed to be about helping
> people, rather than attempts at oneupmanship.
I would certainly not advocate lying either, and it has nothing to do with
wining or losing, it has to do with accurate advise, which incidentally I
gave.
> The fact that you were
> willing to advise someone to do something that would render their system
> unbootable in order to try to "win" a game of oneupmanship that only you
> are playing also earns you my condesension in spades.
How did I offer that advice? The op made a suggestion and I agreed with him
with regard to a Mandriva install disk. I also pointed out with regard to
fdisk /mbr
"He can try that but it probably wont work anyway."
That doesn't look to me like I was advising him to render his system
unbootable.
That sort of advise would go something like
"You should do fdisk /mbr"
>> I can't think of a reason to carry on with this........
>>
>> sid: black
>> jjd: white
>> sid: black
>> jjd:white *white* *WHITE*
>
> Or more accurately:
>
> JJD: A few geometrical figures are the box, the pyramid, and of course
> the square, which is always two dimensional.
> sid: A box is not two dimensional
> JJD: I never said it was.
> sid: Yes you did. You are trying to 'wriggle' out of things.
> JJD: Uhm .. no ... I said a square is always two dimensional [explains
> in great detail]
> sid: Oh, you are hiding behind language again instead of just admitting
> that you claimed that a box is two dimensional
>>
>> Whatever I say you'll say I'm misinterpreting your words or twisting your
>> statements to mean other things, or my understanding of English language
>> is too poor to comprehend your masterful posts, so it's all a bit
>> pointless really.
I wasn't wrong there though was I.
>
> Well, one way you could keep that from happening in the future is to ask
> questions about what someone has said when it isn't clear to you,
> instead of just picking the interpretation that you feel helps you win a
> game of oneupmanship that only you are playing, and sticking with it no
> matter how wrong it turns out to be.
I've got nothing to prove here, you are the one under the constant
spotlight, continually arguing with many different people, continually
trying to prove your superior knowledge and how right you are.
> You snipped your "Extra" points" comment to which mine was a rhetort, in
> order to make it look like I am snide. You were snide, and I rhetorted,
> just for the record.
For the record, eh James, here is my comment, which is not being
"Derogatory in a malicious, superior way" (snide)
you seem to expect some sort of respect that you
"just haven't earned it yet baby" [1]
[1] extra points for an attribution :)
>>> Extra points if you learn enough about the English language today to
>>> understand compound sentences and the concepts of singular versus
>>> plural. ;-)
That was being snide (Derogatory in a malicious, superior way)
>> Extra extra points for you if you learn that people, myself included,
>> will always pick you up on misleading or incorrect statements.
> I have learned what I have always known.
Well there's a contradiction for you, along with another display of your
arrogance. I now expect at least 2 paragraphs explaining how you can learn
that which you have always known and how I have interpreted your statement
incorrectly :)
> There are a lot of not very well educated people in the world, and those
> people will always blame others for their failure rather than getting a
> better education.
To accuse some who are less fortunate than others of failure because
opportunity has not been afforded to them is extremely offensive. You are
very obviously very narrow minded as well as arrogant.
James J. Dines
total disregard for the welfare of the people in need of help in this
group, and who consistently makes completely ludicrous accusations that
can be easily proved absurd. You are the *only* person making such
ridiculous claims and the root cause of your highly unacceptable
behavior is low self-esteem and jealousy. Furthermore, you have
insulted the intelligence of 1000's of people by assuming that they are
stupid, and that they do not see what a moron you actually are. You can
expect to see any further posts you make which follow up to mine to be
followed up by this statement. Consider yourself killfiled without the
benefits.
James J. Dines
> James J. Dines wrote:
>
>> sid wrote:
>>> James J. Dines wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find that you have more than earned my condescension.
>>> Oh how high and mighty you must be feeling.
>> I tried to explain to you three different times what was said. Your
>> lack of understanding of sentence structure and singularity versus
>> plurality in and of itself was no big deal. It is your insistence on
>> pursuing your claim that I said something that I did not, even after I
>> have clearly broken down the sentence into simple terms and pointed out
>> how you misinterpreted it that earns my condescension.
>
> You said
>
> "This will write the standard M$ Bootsector over your Bootloader and you
> will no longer be able to boot Linux either, unless you have a rescue
> floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as the
> knowledge of how to use it to fix the situation, and this is a
> non-trivial task."
>
> I said
>
> "Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at the
> prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader option.
> Couldn't be easier :)"
OK. This is the point that you do not seem to be able to grasp, so I am
going to make it very simple for you. If I had said:
"This will write the standard M$ Bootsector over your Bootloader and
you will no longer be able to boot Linux either, unless you have a
rescue floppy hanging around, or a Live CD that you can use, as well as
the knowledge of how to use it to fix the situation, and THESE ARE NOT
TRIVIAL TASKS."
Using a rescue floppy to fix things, and fixing things with a Live CD
are *TWO* SEPARATE TASKS*. The singular "this is not a trivial task"
can only apply to one task, and it applies to the task immediately
preceding it in the sentence. I therefore said using a Live CD to fix
the problem was not a trivial task. I already stated that I could have
been more clear, and that it was a run-on sentence. The fact remains
that the sentence in no way claims that using a rescue floppy is a
non-trivial task.
If you either refuse to understand the above, or are too thick to do so,
please go about your life, as there is absolutely no sense in us
continuing a ludicrous discussion, especially since it merely avoids the
point that you told someone they can use 'fdisk /mbr' after I explained
quite thoroughly why said action would render their system unbootable.
<snip>
Dan C
Hey Devious Dines, how come you didn't put in any <snip> indicators?
> You have been identified as a person who does not help anyone, who has
> total disregard for the welfare of the people in need of help in this
> group, and who consistently makes completely ludicrous accusations that
> can be easily proved absurd.
Wrong. I have helped *FAR* more people in this newsgroup than you have,
and all my "accusations" can easily be proved by looking back through
Google Groups. In this recent thread alone, I provided a couple of MID's
which *prove* you to be a liar and a devious poster who edits people's
words and then posts them as a quote. Very bad practice here on Usenet,
n00b.
> You are the *only* person making such ridiculous claims
No, I am not. The proof of that is to read this newsgroup. It's quite
obvious I'm not the only one who finds your petty pedantics to be
irritating and harmful. What's confusing you is that only myself and a
few others are willing to wade through your crap to find the truth about
things, and let others know.
<snip>
Consider yourself killfiled without the benefits.
The "benefits"? LOL! Now there's an absurd statement, if ever there was
one.
For newbies to this newsgroup: Be cautious about following advice given
by Devious Dines, and watch out what he says to you in any follow-ups to
your posts. He will usually attempt to twist your words to make it appear
that you said something you didn't, in a pitiful attempt to make himself
appear knowledgeable and superior. It's best to just ignore him
completely.
Dan C
<snip>
> If you either refuse to understand the above, or are too thick to do so,
> please go about your life, as there is absolutely no sense in us
> continuing a ludicrous discussion, especially since it merely avoids the
> point that you told someone they can use 'fdisk /mbr' after I explained
> quite thoroughly why said action would render their system unbootable.
He understood just fine, as did anyone else reading this mess. The best
way for you to avoid "a ludicrous discussion" is to leave the newsgroup,
right now. That will have the added benefit of newbies being able to get
decent help in here, and the rest of us regulars will no longer have to
read your pedantic (and wrong) information.
Please leave the NG, now. Do the newbies a favor, and stop trying to help
when you are incapable of doing so.
Donald Tees
Bullshit. There are several others. In fact, you have been in a fight
with at least one person ever since you entered the NG.
In fact, I have received mail about you from several more. It appears
this is not the only newsgroup you cannot keep out of fights in.
Donald
James J. Dines
total disregard for the welfare of the people in need of help in this
group, and who consistently makes completely ludicrous accusations that
ridiculous claims and the root cause of your highly unacceptable
behavior is low self-esteem and jealousy. Furthermore, you have
insulted the intelligence of 1000's of people by assuming that they are
stupid, and that they do not see what a moron you actually are. You can
expect to see any further posts you make which follow up to mine to be
benefits.
************************************************************************
For all others, who will not want to keep seeing this over and over
(after all, you killfiled Dan C for a reason) it will always be posted
with the subject line above, so just add a rule to ignore that subject
line, and he will be unable to achieve his goal of forcing me to choose
between irritating the regulars or allowing the poisoning of the waters
for the newbie ;-)
************************************************************************
James J. Dines
James J. Dines
As ridiculous as your claims are from time to time, they do not rise to
the level of Dan C's absurdity. I have yet to hear you make the absurd
claim that I do not know what I am talking about and that new people
should not follow my advice or their systems will be damaged. OTOH,
your desire to be identified with Dan C is quite telling.
There are clearly others in the world, like yourself, who are ungrateful
morons. I have yet to see you make ludicrous claims that could hurt the
newbie. In fact, with the exception of a couple of incidents, most
advice given in this group is good.
HANL
James J. Dines
I just re-read your ridiculous post .... ROTFL ;-)
It was so absurd that I didn't read it all at first even though it was
only two sentences, however I am very glad I did ... I needed a good
laugh (see below)
I answer questions in this group because I use Mandriva and I am a big
Linux advocate who wishes to help people trying to make the transition
from Windows to Linux, since I believe this is an important thing on a
socio-political level.
There is a slight problem with your claim ... you see, anyone can use
Google to see that the only time my posts wind up in another newsgroup
is when people have cross-posted, and that is very rare. ... you see
Donald Tees who says I lie and change the subject:
You have been caught in your own ludicrous lie once again !!!!! ;-)
ROTFL (x10)
Robert M. Riches Jr.
With due respect, Mr. Dines:
For quite some time, I have observed that you have been
party to a large number of pointless bickering contests,
largely about minor nuances of definitions of terms. Many
of the bickering contests seem to devolve to an exchange of
something similar to "You are a Liar." followed by "No I'm
not, but you are." over and over again. Frankly, after a
very short while, both sides start to sound like
seven-year-old boys in the schoolyard.
In your defense, I will say you _DO_ quite often give very
useful information (outside of the bickering contests).
That is basically the only reason I haven't plonked you
along with Dan C. (I think he is in my killfile most of the
time.)
In fact, for some time, I have been wondering whether it
might be possible to put one or more entries in my slrn
score file that would cause slrn to skip over any posting
where you were replying to one of a fairly short list of
others with whom you seem to be in the habit of bickering.
I would offer a suggestion for your consideration. In my
humble opinion, Sir, it appears to me that perhaps your
practice of arguing a detailed point for many rounds of
postings might actually be slightly more detrimental than it
is beneficial to the signal-to-noise ratio in this group.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are always
right about detailed points of terminology and such, I would
suggest it might be better for you to state the truth as you
see it once or maybe twice, then let the matter rest. Those
who are capable of holding on to a clue will correctly
discern the truth and throw out the false.
Thank you for considering this suggestion.
--
Robert Riches
spamt...@verizon.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
Dan C
> You have been identified as a person who does not help anyone, who has
> total disregard for the welfare of the people in need of help in this
> group, and who consistently makes completely ludicrous accusations that
> can be easily proved absurd.
Wrong, blowhard. Being "identified" that way by you is laughable. More
and more people are coming forward to say that they also think you are a
pedantic little man who just has to be right. Are you noticing that?
<snip>
> For all others, who will not want to keep seeing this over and over
> (after all, you killfiled Dan C for a reason) it will always be posted
> with the subject line above, so just add a rule to ignore that subject
Better yet, for all of you others who are tired of seeing the pedantic
ranting and petty drivel spewing from Devious Dines' mouth, just killfile
him altogether. That way you not only avoid seeing the blathering "I've
got to be right" stuff, you also don't have to filter through the wrong
technical "help" that Devious Dines provides as a "service". It's a
win-win situation. Killfile him immediately, especially if you're a
newbie and don't want to hose up your system.
James J. Dines
Thank you for speaking up, Robert! I wish it had happened some time
ago, and I wish more people would do so on a regular basis. If this
happened the problem would resolve of its own volition. I appreciate
your opinion, and let me assure you that I don't disagree with *most* of
what you say. If we were to address some examples then we could discuss
how things were handled and discuss better ways to handle them. It
would be even better if all of the people with a clue got involved as
each situation arises.
If we were all to follow this simple process of taking responsibility
for our own part in the process here things would be radically different
indeed! In some cases it would turn out that you were correct, and that
needless bickering was happening. However in many others, I think you
would discover that you agree with me that the particular issue upon
which I was 'harping' was important and that you just did not see my
reason for not letting the misinformation stand on its own merit.
I get the impression that it is your position that if I merely modified
my methods the problem would go away. And I suppose it would as far as
many are concerned. After all, nobody is fabricating lies,
intentionally misrepresenting the facts, or otherwise attacking the
people who silently sit back and allow the errant behavior to continue
unchecked. Perhaps more importantly to *you*, this errant behavior
doesn't affect you as you are not a person new to Linux seeking help
during the very frustrating and critical early adoption phase. You *do*
posses a solid foundation of knowledge in this domain, and you *can*
differentiate between those making accurate statements and those making
ludicrous ones.
The problem as I see it is that this is a critical juncture in the
history of Linux, and it has far reaching implications for the future of
humanity. This seems a dramatic statement, and it is, but that fact
does not limit at all its veracity.
I do not know with certainty what this newsgroup was a year ago. I can
plainly see what it has become, and there is no question in my mind that
it will be changing more and more over the course of the next few years.
My best conjecture is that in the past this was a newsgroup frequented
by a select group of people who were technically competent, and that it
was a kind of social gathering place. I derive this perspective from
people like you, and Aragorn whom I highly respect.
Consider however that we are approaching an event horizon, as Vista
continues to be pushed like a drug on the masses and sold as the
solution that really will stop the insanity. It won't, and more and
more people are starting to wake up to the fact that the only way to
stop the insanity is to switch to an open solution. Tux magazine
recently voted Mandriva as *the* solution for the newbie. We can
expect, or at least hope for, an influx of people new to Linux looking
for help. The paradigm is shifting, and people are growing
uncomfortable as the ways of the past no longer solve the difficulties
of the present day.
There was a time, and it is still true to a limited extent today, when
killfiling the errant individual solved the problem for the majority of
people in the newsgroup. If these days are not gone, they are well on
their way and fast approaching, since the regulars will almost certainly
be a great minority.
I am sensitive to the feelings of the regulars here, and my recent
approach to the problem - to which you replied - represents my best
effort at solving a problem that others are not attempting to solve,
because *for* *them* the old solution works, so long as they only feel a
sense of responsibility to themselves.
Let us consider for a moment the person just getting his feet wet with
Linux, and choosing Mandriva since it is the de facto distribution for
new linux initiates. There was a time when the attitude 'let them
figure out who has a clue' was a reasonable approach, as they were the
minority. However, if this situation has not changed drastically, it is
well on the way to doing so. As more and more new Linux users come to
this group for help, more and more people will be overwriting their MBR
and rendering their system unbootable or giving up on Linux and telling
others that it is too difficult because they falsely believed that 'gtk
and gtk+ are the same' and spent their time trying to find and install
packages on their system that are already there but hidden because they
typed 'urpmi gtk+' and 'proved' that the package was not installed
because it did not show in the output.
Still others will have the solution sitting right in front of them, but
they will be afraid to try it because somebody followed up to the post
claiming the poster was a n00b who always gives bad advice and causes
damage to peoples systems. Since that person is killfiled by most, and
the few who remain refuse to speak up for whatever (ultimately selfish)
reason they have, it will appear to the struggling newbie that the only
answer was provided by someone who regularly causes damage to peoples
systems.
Is there a problem? Absolutely! Can I solve it alone? Of course not!
Ultimately, change is difficult and most people do not like it; it makes
them feel uncomfortable. Will things change for the better? I truly
cannot tell. Of this, however, I am certain. If the old hats recognize
the change as an inevitability and actively seek ways to adapt to it and
improve the situation, then things will change for the better. If,
conversely, they choose to hold on to outdated paradigms and blame the
people who are trying hard to address the changing landscape for making
them uncomfortable, the change will certainly not be for the better.
Not for anyone.
Once again, thank you for your input. I am certainly seeking ways to
improve myself and make the transition from Windows to Linux easier for
those souls fortunate enough to be aware of the alternative and brave
enough to take the plunge. I hope those regulars here will consider
working with me, and if they will not, I hope they will place the
responsibility where it belongs. Of course, I have no way of forcing
either of these things to occur.
Peace and Blessed Be!
Jim D.
Aragorn
following words to the masses in /alt.os.linux.mandriva...:/
> Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>
>> Thank you for considering this suggestion.
>
> Thank you for speaking up, Robert! I wish it had happened some time
> ago, and I wish more people would do so on a regular basis. [...]
Just for the record, I for one have tried a few times - or at least
once; I'm not even sure anymore - to smoothen things out between Dan C
and you.
Many other and more recent times, I have wanted to intervene, but the
truth is that I just couldn't figure out whom to reply to, or whether I
should have started a new thread or something. So I falsely kept on
hoping that this feud between the two of you - or more precisely: its
manifestation through long off-topic follow-ups to threads that should
have died already - would blow over.
Yet the main problems seems to be that both of you are quite tenacious.
Dan is tenacious because he obviously dislikes you and speaks his mind
about it. You are tenacious because you feel that you need to point
out things to him. The bottom line is that this stuff just kept on
going on.
I am therefore glad that Robert stepped in, eventhough I don't agree
with everything he said - I have my own opinions about it all. But at
least, somebody did step up and say "Stop it, you schoolyard children!"
And it was high time too...
> If we were all to follow this simple process of taking responsibility
> for our own part in the process here things would be radically
> different indeed! In some cases it would turn out that you were
> correct, and that needless bickering was happening. However in many
> others, I think you would discover that you agree with me that the
> particular issue upon which I was 'harping' was important and that you
> just did not see my reason for not letting the misinformation stand on
> its own merit.
Sadly enough, I for one simply stopped reading through the bickering
after a few follow-ups, and I think most regulars - and even the
lurkers - have too. Unless they thrive on two people going at
eachother's throat, that is; people like that do exist as well, and
those would be good troll candidates.
> I get the impression that it is your position that if I merely
> modified my methods the problem would go away. And I suppose it would
> as far as many are concerned.
Robert has addressed you only as he obviously - or so I gather from what
he wrote - has Dan C in his /killfile./ However, both you and Dan can
read what Robert wrote, and I therefore consider Robert's intervention
to be directed at the both of you.
It's not even a matter of what Robert says through his words, but the
sheer fact that he had to step in - as I myself have tried a few times
- should be a message of its own, i.e. a plea to cease the
manifestations of hostility through follow-up posts.
If you and Dan can't get along, then perhaps it would be best for the
both of you - as well as for everyone else in this group - to simply
ignore eachother from now on. It's a cold war situation, but even that
is better than a real warzone. And the latter was what this whole
newsgroup was starting to look like, which is very sad... :-/
> [...]
>
> I do not know with certainty what this newsgroup was a year ago.
Pretty much the same thing. Not a lot has changed ever since then.
People have come and gone. Perhaps for other distributions, perhaps
for more difficult challenges, perhaps out of disinterest or a lack of
time.
But that's all normal. This is Usenet. It's a very dynamic medium. As
dynamic as a human life can be. "
Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky."
-- Kansas, "Dust In The Wind"
> I can plainly see what it has become, and there is no question in my
> mind that it will be changing more and more over the course of the
> next few years.
> My best conjecture is that in the past this was a newsgroup
> frequented by a select group of people who were technically competent,
> and that it was a kind of social gathering place.
Well, there has always been a mix of knowledgeable and less
knowledgeable people, and some with shorter fuses than others.
Flamewars occur every now and then, but it's just not pleasant when
they seem to last forever.
> I derive this perspective from people like you, and Aragorn whom I
> highly respect.
Thank you!
"I do what I can with the means I have."
-- Michael Gross in "Tremors II"
> Consider however that we are approaching an event horizon, as Vista
> continues to be pushed like a drug on the masses and sold as the
> solution that really will stop the insanity.
The "event horizon" would have been more of a pun when used in relation
with Microsoft's DarkStar/Singularity project... ;-)
> It won't, and more and more people are starting to wake up to the fact
> that the only way to stop the insanity is to switch to an open
> solution.
I think Vista will disappoint a lot of people because of its hardware
requirements. However, just because they're disappointed doesn't mean
that they won't jump on the bandwagon again...
People are sheep, and they want to be led. Microsoft is very happy and
eager to lead them, and so the atrocity goes on... ;-)
I do however have high hopes for the SCO versus IBM lawsuit. As you may
or may not know, SCO - a dying company with no future whatsoever - has
received substantial funding from Microsoft on at least one occasion,
and now that IBM is winning the case, they have subpoenaed Microsoft as
well.
I guess I should also be checking up on what the Microsoft versus the
European Union lawsuit is at these days. And then there is the
antitrust case against Microsoft now over in Korea...
Meanwhile, GNU/Linux is gaining more and more momentum. Almost every
serious IT professional will acknowledge that it's a Heavensent server
operating system, and with big companies like IBM, Novell, HP and even
SGI are backing up GNU/Linux, it's already found its way onto the UNIX
workstation market.
I don't expect Microsoft to ever go away. I also don't expect GNU/Linux
to ever gain the biggest marketshare whereas office and home desktops
are concerned - after all, Apple is also still around - but it would be
really nice if we could just break the monopoly.
That way, we could count on much better hardware support, as normally an
operating system should be developed *for* a specific hardware
platform, but Microsoft now has hardware developers build hardware
*for* Windows - along with a non-disclosure agreement to prevent FOSS
developers from (quickly) devising drivers. And that's just plain
wrong.
> Tux magazine recently voted Mandriva as *the* solution for the newbie.
> We can expect, or at least hope for, an influx of people new to Linux
> looking for help. The paradigm is shifting, and people are growing
> uncomfortable as the ways of the past no longer solve the difficulties
> of the present day.
Unfortunately, the longer it takes, the more conditioned and
indoctrinated people will get. Three years ago, people still knew what
a directory was. These days, all they know is "folders" - God, I hate
that word...! ;-þ
> There was a time, and it is still true to a limited extent today, when
> killfiling the errant individual solved the problem for the majority
> of people in the newsgroup. If these days are not gone, they are well
> on their way and fast approaching, since the regulars will almost
> certainly be a great minority.
It all depends on the newsgroup it concerns. /comp.os.linux.advocacy/
for instance has a 50% /killfile/ ratio for most of the GNU/Linux
advocates. The sad thing is that they don't /killfile/ the _same_
people. Had they done that, then most of the trolls there had already
gone away a long time ago.
Except for /flatfish+++/ of course. He nymshifts and changes disposable
e-mail addresses on the fly, using lots of proxyservers to gain
credibility as being a different poster.
Yet he keeps on posting his drivel, and now that I'm no longer
subscribed to /C.O.L.A./ I still have to see that junk being posted to
/comp.os.linux.misc./
/flatfish+++/ always uses the same distinct writing style. For
instance, he will often end a sentence with a linefeed, but for him
that doesn't mark the end of a paragraph.
He also uses typical verbage, and his posts are nearly always
crossposted to /rec.audio.pro/ and /alt.os.windows-xp/ - which as you
may or may not know is the newsgroup founded and moderated by the
infamous /Kadaitcha/ /Man,/ a first class troll who used to bother
/alt.os.linux.mandrake/ back when I was still posting as /BeoWulf/ -
with the uppercase "W", not to be confused with the poster currently
known as /Beowulf./
> I am sensitive to the feelings of the regulars here, and my recent
> approach to the problem - to which you replied - represents my best
> effort at solving a problem that others are not attempting to solve,
> because *for* *them* the old solution works, so long as they only feel
> a sense of responsibility to themselves.
I don't think that's entirely correct... As I stated higher up, I
myself have also tried to intervene a few times, and I certainly have a
strong sense of responsibility. However, as it turned out - this very
thread being the evidence - my previous efforts had failed... :-/
> Let us consider for a moment the person just getting his feet wet with
> Linux, and choosing Mandriva since it is the de facto distribution for
> new linux initiates.
Hmmm... I wouldn't underestimate the popularity of SuSE and OpenSuSE,
RedHat and Fedora Core and probably even in a bigger degree Ubuntu and
Kubuntu.
Mandriva is popular, and it may even be at the top of the list, but the
others are following closely behind... ;-)
> [...]
>
> Peace and Blessed Be!
I'm not exactly blessed and I don't think I'll ever be - I seem to have
a problem with The Man Upstairs - but I'll take the peace anytime! ;-)
--
With kind regards,
*Aragorn*
(Registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
James J. Dines
> On Thursday 13 April 2006 15:52, James J. Dines stood up and spoke the
> following words to the masses in /alt.os.linux.mandriva...:/
>
>> Robert M. Riches Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Thank you for considering this suggestion.
>> Thank you for speaking up, Robert! I wish it had happened some time
>> ago, and I wish more people would do so on a regular basis. [...]
>
> Just for the record, I for one have tried a few times - or at least
> once; I'm not even sure anymore - to smoothen things out between Dan C
> and you.
>
> Many other and more recent times, I have wanted to intervene, but the
> truth is that I just couldn't figure out whom to reply to, or whether I
> should have started a new thread or something. So I falsely kept on
> hoping that this feud between the two of you - or more precisely: its
> manifestation through long off-topic follow-ups to threads that should
> have died already - would blow over.
This is *not* a feud between Dan C and me. Show me a post where he
posts something intended to be helpful, and I respond in any manner at
all, never mind with misinformation and name calling. Look also at how
many posts I make to others, and compare and contrast that with his
record (you can include the ones not intended to be helpful as it
doesn't affect the numbers very much.)
>
> Yet the main problems seems to be that both of you are quite tenacious.
> Dan is tenacious because he obviously dislikes you and speaks his mind
> about it. You are tenacious because you feel that you need to point
> out things to him. The bottom line is that this stuff just kept on
> going on.
I would like nothing better than do have Dan C ignore my posts, and I
would certainly do the same. Can you show me where Dan C follows up to
someone other than me and I then follow up to hist post?
Immediately after Dan C told you he would not follow-up to my posts he
changed tactics slightly and chose to follow-up to one of my posts,
under the guise of some technical contribution. It begins with sid's
post with the folowing message ID:
<e191df$rba$1...@emma.aioe.org>
I follow up with a very civilized tone to sid, even though he and I have
had disagreements in the past. That is important to note, but not as
important as:
"OTOH, I think this is a very silly way for Mandriva to do things,
since there is no down-side to installing the updated kernel, so
long as the process of modifying the bootloader default is left as a
manual one. Multiple kernels coexist quite well together, and they
could be installed along with a notice that you need to modify the
bootloader default manually."
... this is important because this is the very valid point I make, which
Dan attacks. Note especially that it is about how I think things
*SHOULD* be done. In the interest of full disclosure I *do* forget that
the notice would also have to direct the admin to rebuild third party
modules. Note also that later, when he tries to claim that the back and
forth was about how things are done rather than how they *could* be
done, he cites the first half of the paragraph and ignores the second in
an attempt to support his ludicrous claim that everything I said was
intended to be a discussion about how things are done now.
(<rL5_f.363080$05.10...@phobos.telenet-ops.be>)
Since every point I am making is by definition *not* how it is done now,
if he can merely get people to believe his claim it indeed looks like I
have no idea what I am talking about.
... Here is where things start to go horribly wrong (Note that "Dan C
followed up to my post" and "things start to go horribly wrong" are
essentially synonymous):
<pan.2006.04.09....@invalid.lan>
In this message, Dan C cites some additional issues, one which is easily
addressed. and then a vague 'there are others as well.'
Note that in the follow-up <<_XXZf.75$qB4.10@trndny07>) I am civil to
him and offer him the opportunity to concede that his issue is not a
real issue, as it easily fits into my proposed scheme. I also tell him
his idea was interesting (though it wasn't) and allow him to save face
by saying that there may be other reasons why it cannot be done. I do
this merely to allow him to save face; I am in fact 100% there is no
valid reason why this approach won't work.
Pay special attention to the way I am stating things, .e.g.:
"In this way, multiple kernel versions coexist quite nicely. As I
said originally, the newly installed kernel would not be set as the
default kernel."
I am careful to point out that we are talking about what *would* be
done, as opposed to how it is now.
Now Dan C has two choices: admit I am right, or call me a n00b and claim
that the subject of the conversation was not how things could/would be
done, and that I don't know how URPMI works. Guess which one he chooses.
That is not the truly disturbing part, in my mind, however. It is that
after I am fed up with his usual twisting of the facts and assaults on
my character, how do *you* respond? "That's a big mistake, Jim..."
You *do* *not* tell Dan C earlier in the thread that the whole
discussion stemmed from, and was about, what *could* / *should* be done
(a fact he almost certainly already knows.) You do not verify that it
could indeed be done the way I am saying. You do not ask Dan C what
happened to his agreement to stop following up my posts. You you
chastise me!
>
> I am therefore glad that Robert stepped in, eventhough I don't agree
> with everything he said - I have my own opinions about it all. But at
> least, somebody did step up and say "Stop it, you schoolyard children!"
>
> And it was high time too...
>
I stated this myself.
>> If we were all to follow this simple process of taking responsibility
>> for our own part in the process here things would be radically
>> different indeed! In some cases it would turn out that you were
>> correct, and that needless bickering was happening. However in many
>> others, I think you would discover that you agree with me that the
>> particular issue upon which I was 'harping' was important and that you
>> just did not see my reason for not letting the misinformation stand on
>> its own merit.
>
> Sadly enough, I for one simply stopped reading through the bickering
> after a few follow-ups, and I think most regulars - and even the
> lurkers - have too. Unless they thrive on two people going at
> eachother's throat, that is; people like that do exist as well, and
> those would be good troll candidates.
Yes. I believe I know of at least one such person.
>
>> I get the impression that it is your position that if I merely
>> modified my methods the problem would go away. And I suppose it would
>> as far as many are concerned.
>
> Robert has addressed you only as he obviously - or so I gather from what
> he wrote - has Dan C in his /killfile./ However, both you and Dan can
> read what Robert wrote, and I therefore consider Robert's intervention
> to be directed at the both of you.
I suspect Robert addressed me because he knows I am reasonable.
>
> It's not even a matter of what Robert says through his words, but the
> sheer fact that he had to step in - as I myself have tried a few times
> - should be a message of its own, i.e. a plea to cease the
> manifestations of hostility through follow-up posts.
Again, the problem isn't that Robert stepped in; it is that people have
not been stepping in. If four or five people all called Dan C on his
behavior, his behavior would no longer achieve the goal he is seeking to
accomplish.
>
> If you and Dan can't get along, then perhaps it would be best for the
> both of you - as well as for everyone else in this group - to simply
> ignore eachother from now on. It's a cold war situation, but even that
> is better than a real warzone. And the latter was what this whole
> newsgroup was starting to look like, which is very sad... :-/
>
This was the plan you and Dan C had agreed upon, and I was *more* than
willing to keep my end of the bargain up. We could try it again, but it
hasn't worked yet.
Note that the event horizon to which I refer is not the release of
Vista; that will just drive the machine.
>
>> It won't, and more and more people are starting to wake up to the fact
>> that the only way to stop the insanity is to switch to an open
>> solution.
>
> I think Vista will disappoint a lot of people because of its hardware
> requirements. However, just because they're disappointed doesn't mean
> that they won't jump on the bandwagon again...
If by hardware requirements, you mean DRM, then I agree with you. DRM
is what will ultimately kill Microsoft in my opinion.
<snip M$ stuff ... we can easily agree>
>
>> Tux magazine recently voted Mandriva as *the* solution for the newbie.
>> We can expect, or at least hope for, an influx of people new to Linux
>> looking for help. The paradigm is shifting, and people are growing
>> uncomfortable as the ways of the past no longer solve the difficulties
>> of the present day.
>
> Unfortunately, the longer it takes, the more conditioned and
> indoctrinated people will get. Three years ago, people still knew what
> a directory was. These days, all they know is "folders" - God, I hate
> that word...! ;-þ
Grass roots revolutions don't happen overnight!
>
>> There was a time, and it is still true to a limited extent today, when
>> killfiling the errant individual solved the problem for the majority
>> of people in the newsgroup. If these days are not gone, they are well
>> on their way and fast approaching, since the regulars will almost
>> certainly be a great minority.
>
> It all depends on the newsgroup it concerns. /comp.os.linux.advocacy/
> for instance has a 50% /killfile/ ratio for most of the GNU/Linux
> advocates. The sad thing is that they don't /killfile/ the _same_
> people. Had they done that, then most of the trolls there had already
> gone away a long time ago.
Agreed. I was referring specifically to this newsgroup.
alt.trout.fishing is unlikey to undergo a significant change as the
result of the release of Vista ;-)
>
> Except for /flatfish+++/ of course. He nymshifts and changes disposable
> e-mail addresses on the fly, using lots of proxyservers to gain
> credibility as being a different poster.
Speaking of fish ;-)
>
> Yet he keeps on posting his drivel, and now that I'm no longer
> subscribed to /C.O.L.A./ I still have to see that junk being posted to
> /comp.os.linux.misc./
>
> /flatfish+++/ always uses the same distinct writing style. For
> instance, he will often end a sentence with a linefeed, but for him
> that doesn't mark the end of a paragraph.
>
> He also uses typical verbage, and his posts are nearly always
> crossposted to /rec.audio.pro/ and /alt.os.windows-xp/ - which as you
> may or may not know is the newsgroup founded and moderated by the
> infamous /Kadaitcha/ /Man,/ a first class troll who used to bother
> /alt.os.linux.mandrake/ back when I was still posting as /BeoWulf/ -
> with the uppercase "W", not to be confused with the poster currently
> known as /Beowulf./
>
>> I am sensitive to the feelings of the regulars here, and my recent
>> approach to the problem - to which you replied - represents my best
>> effort at solving a problem that others are not attempting to solve,
>> because *for* *them* the old solution works, so long as they only feel
>> a sense of responsibility to themselves.
>
> I don't think that's entirely correct... As I stated higher up, I
> myself have also tried to intervene a few times, and I certainly have a
> strong sense of responsibility. However, as it turned out - this very
> thread being the evidence - my previous efforts had failed... :-/
>
You, also, are but one person. Also, I have stated my disappointment
with the way you got Dan C to agree with a plan, and then he violated it
you chastised me, rather than calling him on it and correcting his
absurd claim ... no hard feelings, of course.
>> Let us consider for a moment the person just getting his feet wet with
>> Linux, and choosing Mandriva since it is the de facto distribution for
>> new linux initiates.
>
> Hmmm... I wouldn't underestimate the popularity of SuSE and OpenSuSE,
> RedHat and Fedora Core and probably even in a bigger degree Ubuntu and
> Kubuntu.
Agreed. It was not my intention to claim that other distributions won't
also have large number of people adopting them.
>
> Mandriva is popular, and it may even be at the top of the list, but the
> others are following closely behind... ;-)
>
>> [...]
>>
>> Peace and Blessed Be!
>
> I'm not exactly blessed and I don't think I'll ever be - I seem to have
> a problem with The Man Upstairs - but I'll take the peace anytime! ;-)
>
Peace and Blessed Be just the same!
Dan C
<snip the entire contents of Devious Dines attempting to rehash past posts
and *again* twist the meaning to make himself look good>
Dines, you are still misleading people, and lying. I will continue to
monitor your posts, and I will call "bullshit" when I see it spewing from
your mouth. I don't care if you (or anyone) likes it, or not. You will
not, as a newcomer, come into this NG and try to establish yourself as the
resident net-cop. You will not resort to petty and pedantic English
lessons when there is no need for it. I will step in and expose your
bullshit each time you try to do that. If you don't like that, leave.
sid
It matters not a jot how many times you try and change wording or change the
meaning of what you wrote, at no time at all have I claimed that I wrote
anything other than
"Yes it is trivial. Boot with your Mandriva install disk, Press F1 at the
prompt, type rescue and then select the reinstall bootloader option.
Couldn't be easier :)"
At what point in that paragraph do I say anything about floppy disks or live
cd's?
The op suggested he should use a Mandriva install disk. I agreed with him,
at the same time I pointed out to you that using a Mandriva install disk
made it a trivial task. Is that really that hard to comprehend?
> Using a rescue floppy to fix things, and fixing things with a Live CD
> are *TWO* SEPARATE TASKS*. The singular "this is not a trivial task"
> can only apply to one task, and it applies to the task immediately
> preceding it in the sentence. I therefore said using a Live CD to fix
> the problem was not a trivial task. I already stated that I could have
> been more clear, and that it was a run-on sentence. The fact remains
> that the sentence in no way claims that using a rescue floppy is a
> non-trivial task.
I also pointed out a slightly more complicated method which involved 4
commands rather that just the 2, which can be very easily adjusted to suit
any bootable live linux cd. Go ahead and stick that knoppix cd in your
drive and type linux 2. Four simple commands later your bootloader will be
restored. Trivial.
> If you either refuse to understand the above, or are too thick to do so,
> please go about your life, as there is absolutely no sense in us
> continuing a ludicrous discussion,
I seem to remember saying the same sort of thing to you before now, funny
isn't it? Trouble is I have never made any claim to being anything other
than a thickie, whereas you on the other hand have made all sorts of claims
regarding your expert knowledge and unsurpassed problem solving skill and
desirability as an expert employee. Laughable.
> especially since it merely avoids the
> point that you told someone they can use 'fdisk /mbr' after I explained
> quite thoroughly why said action would render their system unbootable.
Seeing as you haven't included any of the previous text to back up this
ludicrous claim, I'll do it again, the same as the post you are replying to
"How did I offer that advice? The op made a suggestion and I agreed with him
with regard to a Mandriva install disk. I also pointed out with regard to
fdisk /mbr
"He can try that but it probably wont work anyway."
That doesn't look to me like I was advising him to render his system
unbootable.
That sort of advise would go something like
"You should do fdisk /mbr"
Is that straight forward enough for you to grasp or are you too blinded by
your own desperate attempt to appear clever, right or whatever else it is
you wish others to think of you, that you will still carry on insisting I
have misinterpreted you or offered bad advice to the op?
James J. Dines
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:15:15 +0000, James J. Dines wrote:
>
> <snip the entire contents of Devious Dines attempting to rehash past posts
> and *again* twist the meaning to make himself look good>
>
> Dines, you are still misleading people, and lying. I will continue to
> monitor your posts, and I will call "bullshit" when I see it spewing from
> your mouth. I don't care if you (or anyone) likes it, or not. You will
> not, as a newcomer, come into this NG and try to establish yourself as the
> resident net-cop. You will not resort to petty and pedantic English
> lessons when there is no need for it. I will step in and expose your
> bullshit each time you try to do that. If you don't like that, leave.
>
total disregard for the welfare of the people in need of help in this
group, and who consistently makes completely ludicrous accusations that
can be easily proved absurd. You are the *only* person making such
ridiculous claims and the root cause of your highly unacceptable
behavior is low self-esteem and jealousy. Furthermore, you have
insulted the intelligence of 1000's of people by assuming that they are
stupid, and that they do not see what a moron you actually are. You can
expect to see any further posts you make which follow up to mine to be
followed up by this statement. Consider yourself killfiled without the
benefits.
************************************************************************
For all others, who will not want to keep seeing this over and over
(after all, you killfiled Dan C for a reason) it will always be posted
with the subject line above, so just add a rule to ignore that subject
line, and he will be unable to achieve his goal of forcing me to choose
between irritating the regulars or allowing the poisoning of the waters
for the newbie
************************************************************************
James J. Dines
<snip>
I do not know if you get it or not, but I did ask you to either get it
and move on, or not get it and move on.
sid
> sid wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I do not know if you get it or not, but I did ask you to either get it
> and move on, or not get it and move on.
I've got it all along mate, it's you that continues to not get it.
ttfn
sid
Doesn't posting the same thing over and over to a news group constitute
spamming?
Kindly desist from spamming this news group.
Thankyou.
ttfn
James J. Dines
> James J. Dines wrote:
>
> Doesn't posting the same thing over and over to a news group constitute
> spamming?
> Kindly desist from spamming this news group.
> Thankyou.
>
> ttfn
ROTFL ... No *wonder* sid and Dan C are so much alike ...
"sid" is Dan C posting anonymously from aioe.org ... LOL ;-)
Bit Twister
> "sid" is Dan C posting anonymously from aioe.org ... LOL ;-)
Impress me, show me your proof.
James J. Dines
Don't be ridiculous.
Bit Twister
> Bit Twister wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 23:29:36 GMT, James J. Dines wrote:
>>
>>> "sid" is Dan C posting anonymously from aioe.org ... LOL ;-)
>>
>> Impress me, show me your proof.
>
> Don't be ridiculous.
I wasn't.
Show me how you verified the posting host ip address were the same.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Dan C
>> Kindly desist from spamming this news group.
>> Thankyou.
> ROTFL ... No *wonder* sid and Dan C are so much alike ...
> "sid" is Dan C posting anonymously from aioe.org ... LOL ;-)
Wrong again, Doofus Dines.
Right here in front of everybody, and with Google Groups to back it up,
another lie from Dines. You're really making yourself look good. Keep it
up!
For newbies to the newsgroup: Please ignore what this pedantic little
blowhard says. He is only trying to puff out his chest, and will steer
you down the wrong path, probably hosing your system in the process. The
best thing you can do is ignore his blathering, and just killfile his
posts.
James J. Dines
How would verifying that the posting host IP addresses were the same
prove my statement?
James J. Dines
Number of threads "sid" is involved in that Dan C is not also invloved in: 1
Reason: I never followed up to Sid on that one issue
Number of Times "sid" has followed up a post to someone other than James
J. Dines: 0
Number of posts from "sid" that contain "Dines": 17
Number of posts from "sid" that do *not* contain Dines: 0
Does sid post purported ISP BROADBAND_STAVERTON. (based on purported
E-Mail address) .. no, he posts anonymously.
Does he effect a reasonable English (British) vernacular?
No he sounds like a moron from Pensacola, Fl named Dan C with the
occasional interjection of an S where Americans would use a Z; he also
practices identical tactics.
What is Dan C's main complaint: "I am a pedantic "English teacher"
Where does suddenly anonymous sid "come from"?
England
Believe it. Don't believe it. The point is I know, and Dan C knows I
know ;-)
Bit Twister
> Bit Twister wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 00:35:09 GMT, James J. Dines wrote:
>>> Bit Twister wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 23:29:36 GMT, James J. Dines wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "sid" is Dan C posting anonymously from aioe.org ... LOL ;-)
>>>> Impress me, show me your proof.
>>> Don't be ridiculous.
>>
>> I wasn't.
>> Show me how you verified the posting host ip address were the same.
>> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> How would verifying that the posting host IP addresses were the same
> prove my statement?
Well, if sid's nntp posting host ip was 70.187.36.214, then it would
be enough proof for me to believe sid was Dan C.
I wanted to know how you converted
sid's NNTP-Posting-Host: G1E8h3z0OaAIY3N5ef/eJQ.user.aioe.org to
Dan's NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.187.36.214
Dan C
<snip a bunch of incoherent rambling>
> Believe it. Don't believe it. The point is I know, and Dan C knows I
> know ;-)
You don't know squat, and you're wrong again. Run along, junior.
James J. Dines
As far as I know there is no way to do that, at least within the bounds
of the law ... that's *why* it is called posting anonymously.
Aragorn
words to the masses in /alt.os.linux.mandriva...:/
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:15:15 +0000, James J. Dines wrote:
>
> <snip the entire contents of Devious Dines attempting to rehash past
> posts and *again* twist the meaning to make himself look good>
Unfortunately and for the record, I have to state that I didn't get to
see J.J. Dines's follow-up to my post, as quite obviously my ISP's
newsserver seems to have dropped it again due to its size.
As it was evident from Dan C's follow-up which appeared right underneath
my own post in this thread, I had to look for James's post on Google
Groups.
Now I don't want to lower myself to using Google Groups to reply for
principle reasons and because many regulars here have Google Groups
filtered out, but I do want to comment on a few things Jim has said to
*me* without going in too much deeper - my ISP's newsserver would once
again drop the post anyway due to its excessive length.
I will therefore insert the things I feel I should comment on here,
attributed with manually inserted double indentation characters.
So, here goes...:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:15:15 +0000, James J. Dines wrote:
>
>> Aragorn wrote:
>
>>> Many other and more recent times, I have wanted to intervene, but
>>> the truth is that I just couldn't figure out whom to reply to, or
>>> whether I should have started a new thread or something. So I
>>> falsely kept on hoping that this feud between the two of you - or
>>> more precisely: its manifestation through long off-topic follow-ups
>>> to threads that should have died already - would blow over.
>>
>> That is not the truly disturbing part, in my mind, however. It is
>> that after I am fed up with his usual twisting of the facts and
>> assaults on my character, how do *you* respond? "That's a big
>> mistake, Jim..."
I was referring to the namecalling, nothing else...
>> You *do* *not* tell Dan C earlier in the thread that the whole
>> discussion stemmed from, and was about, what *could* / *should* be
>> done (a fact he almost certainly already knows.) You do not verify
>> that it could indeed be done the way I am saying.
That's because the technical relevance of the thread was not what I was
responding to. Doing so would have...
(1) required me to reread the entire thread to see who wrote what
exactly; and
(2) get involved and choose sides in the technical debate, which was in
itself too deeply entangled with a personal conflict that I did _not_
want to get involved in - I'm not exactly Usenet-suicidal and I'm not
looking to make enemies.
>> You do not ask Dan C what happened to his agreement to stop following
>> up my posts.
As I understood it, the agreement was not that Dan would stop following
up to your posts, but that he agreed to cease the hostility, which is
exactly what I had asked him to do.
Dan kept on being polite in his follow-ups to your post, until the
moment where you resorted to namecalling again. *That* is why I wrote
"That's a big mistake, Jim"...
>> You you chastise me!
I don't consider that to have been chastising. I'd say the tone of my
post was still quite friendly and polite. I considered it an advice, a
few words of wisdom, if you will.
I certainly did not mean to come across as partial. That's exactly one
of the main reasons why I chose not to get involved with that thread
any further than I already had, or any sooner than I have done.
>>> If you and Dan can't get along, then perhaps it would be best for
>>> the both of you - as well as for everyone else in this group - to
>>> simply ignore eachother from now on. It's a cold war situation, but
>>> even that is better than a real warzone. And the latter was what
>>> this whole newsgroup was starting to look like, which is very sad...
>>> :-/
>>
>> This was the plan you and Dan C had agreed upon, and I was *more*
>> than willing to keep my end of the bargain up. We could try it
>> again, but it hasn't worked yet.
Actually, strictly spoken, that was not what Dan and I had agreed upon -
see higher up - but it *is* what I am proposing *now* as a solution,
given that any previous attempts at keeping the peace have failed.
Hmm... Now why am I starting to feel like I'm Henry Kissinger? ;-)
>>>> Consider however that we are approaching an event horizon, as Vista
>>>> continues to be pushed like a drug on the masses and sold as the
>>>> solution that really will stop the insanity.
>>>
>>> The "event horizon" would have been more of a pun when used in
>>> relation with Microsoft's DarkStar/Singularity project... ;-)
>>
>> Note that the event horizon to which I refer is not the release of
>> Vista; that will just drive the machine.
It was just wordplay; don't take it too seriously... ;-)
>>> I think Vista will disappoint a lot of people because of its
>>> hardware requirements. However, just because they're disappointed
>>> doesn't mean that they won't jump on the bandwagon again...
>>
>> If by hardware requirements, you mean DRM, then I agree with you.
>> DRM is what will ultimately kill Microsoft in my opinion.
No, I was actually referring to the hardware requirements for running
Vista: at least a 2 GHz CPU - preferably a dual-core machine - and at
least 1 GB of RAM - the absolute minimum requirement just to get it to
run being 512 MB - in order to work comfortably.
And that's just for the 32-bit version. Working as comfortably with the
64-bit version of Vista as one can on a 32-bit GNU/Linux machine with
512 MB will require the Vista machine to have 4 GB of physical memory
installed.
As for DRM, Apple is one of the main companies who are pushing DRM a
lot, and it doesn't seem to harm them.
Being a musician myself however, I think I'm entitled to say that DRM
sucks. It's just one more way of beating more money out of the
people's pockets, and this by a music industry that's already earned
far too much money off of the work of underpaid musicians.
In a way, it reminds me of the discussion I had with Blinky earlier
about the prices of gasoline in Europe - and even when seen in
perspective to what the price of gasoline was in the USA before the
crisis and to what it is now.
Let's examine the logic, shall we? Due to a conflict between the
Russian government and - I believe - a Ukranian oil refinery, the Wall
Street idiots managed to inflate the prices of oil even further beyond
their already ridiculous proportions.
I don't know what the current status is of this conflict between the two
agents who started this idiocy - not that I'm letting the Wall Street
idiots of the hook at all! - but even if things smoothen out between
them, and even if the international reserve of crude oil isn't at
jeopardy anymore, then you can still bet your bottom dollar that
they're not going to lower the price of oil and oil-derived products
again.
After all, why would they? They've already seen that people are willing
to pay that much money, so they'll just use the current prices of oil
as a standard and slowly take it up from there again for the future.
*That* is the lunacy of capitalism. And _that_ is also the same thing
as happened to the record industry. It started with lowering the cut
for the musicians and raising the prices of the end-product - i.e. the
CD or DVD.
Then they got really comfortable and used to that situation, until the
Internet started booming and music fans all over the world started
ripping CD's, encoding them into /.mp3's/ and offering them for
download. Free of charge at first, but at a price later on - there
always have been and always will be pirates.
And so now, in order to battle the monster that they themselves have
created - Sony is one of the greatest proponents of DRM, but also one
of the greatest manufacturers of CD- and DVD-burners; speaking of a
double agenda! - they've called DRM to life, hereby supported by both
Apple Computer and Microsoft Incorporated.
The only difference of opinion so far in this respect seems to be that
Microsoft - as always - wants to introduce its own technology as the
standard.
The bottom line is that there is a consensus on that new technology is
needed in order to further rip off both the musician and the music fan
- and you can extend that to movie fans as well. There just isn't a
consensus yet on whose technology will have the monopoly in doing it.
>>>> I am sensitive to the feelings of the regulars here, and my recent
>>>> approach to the problem - to which you replied - represents my best
>>>> effort at solving a problem that others are not attempting to
>>>> solve, because *for* *them* the old solution works, so long as they
>>>> only feel a sense of responsibility to themselves.
>>>
>>> I don't think that's entirely correct... As I stated higher up, I
>>> myself have also tried to intervene a few times, and I certainly
>>> have a strong sense of responsibility. However, as it turned out -
>>> this very thread being the evidence - my previous efforts had
>>> failed... :-/
>>
>> You, also, are but one person. Also, I have stated my disappointment
>> with the way you got Dan C to agree with a plan, and then he violated
>> it you chastised me, rather than calling him on it and correcting his
>> absurd claim ... no hard feelings, of course.
As stated a few paragraphs higher up already, I did not see Dan as
breaking his agreement, since he managed to post in a serene manner -
by which I mean "no insults and no namecalling".
The comment of mine you refer to as being "chastising" only had a
relation to your resorting to namecalling again, which I already
foresaw as the foundation for re-escalating hostility.
No more, no less... ;-)
sid
> sid wrote:
>> James J. Dines wrote:
>>
>> Doesn't posting the same thing over and over to a news group constitute
>> spamming?
>> Kindly desist from spamming this news group.
>> Thankyou.
>>
>> ttfn
>
> ROTFL ... No *wonder* sid and Dan C are so much alike ...
>
> "sid" is Dan C posting anonymously from aioe.org ... LOL ;-)
Hey knobchops, check out the alt.os.linux.mandrake group, I post there using
my isp's news server. You'll find my real ip and my location there.
I post on this group through a free news server that I found on this page
http://freenews.maxbaud.net/
because my isp refuses to add this group to it's feed.
This time you've made a complete and utter ass of your self, right here for
everyone to see.
Dave
> Hey knobchops
Eloquently put. Who was your trainer for jibes like that? ;)
[Snip]
> because my isp refuses to add this group to it's feed.
What? Why?
> This time you've made a complete and utter ass of your self, right here for
> everyone to see.
The more things change, the more things stay the same. ;)
--
Linux: because I work with Windows, and that's bad enough.
AOLM FAQ - http://blinkynet.net/comp/faq_aolm.html
RLU #300033 - MDK 10.2 - WindowMaker 0.92.0
sid
>> Hey knobchops
>
> Eloquently put. Who was your trainer for jibes like that? ;)
:)
I'm a builder and have been working on and around building sites for the
last 27 years. I'm required to be able to converse in such a manner. It's
the law. :)
>> because my isp refuses to add this group to it's feed.
>
> What? Why?
Blueblunder have a log time battle with their news servers, mainly that
there are too many binary groups with extremely high volume. They have
taken the wise (?) decision not to add any more alt* groups to the feed.
Their text only server is actually very good and rarely falls over, but
their bunny server is atrocious and is a constant source of complaint from
those who like that sort of thing.
James J. Dines
<snip>
>>> Aragorn wrote:
>>>> Many other and more recent times, I have wanted to intervene, but
>>>> the truth is that I just couldn't figure out whom to reply to, or
>>>> whether I should have started a new thread or something. So I
>>>> falsely kept on hoping that this feud between the two of you - or
>>>> more precisely: its manifestation through long off-topic follow-ups
>>>> to threads that should have died already - would blow over.
>>> That is not the truly disturbing part, in my mind, however. It is
>>> that after I am fed up with his usual twisting of the facts and
>>> assaults on my character, how do *you* respond? "That's a big
>>> mistake, Jim..."
>
> I was referring to the namecalling, nothing else...
>
>>> You *do* *not* tell Dan C earlier in the thread that the whole
>>> discussion stemmed from, and was about, what *could* / *should* be
>>> done (a fact he almost certainly already knows.) You do not verify
>>> that it could indeed be done the way I am saying.
>
> That's because the technical relevance of the thread was not what I was
> responding to. Doing so would have...
> (1) required me to reread the entire thread to see who wrote what
> exactly; and
> (2) get involved and choose sides in the technical debate, which was in
> itself too deeply entangled with a personal conflict that I did _not_
> want to get involved in - I'm not exactly Usenet-suicidal and I'm not
> looking to make enemies.
I am going to just deal with this issue at the moment, since I have
little time available today, and your ISP would block it if I addressed
everything all at once anyway.
All that would have been required was for you to follow Dan Cs
suggestion and go back and look at the paragraph he cited as "proof"
that we were talking about how things work and not how things could be
done. (you can still do this, of course) Then you would see that he
snipped and copied the first half of the paragraph and left the second
half, in order to make it *LOOK* like he was right/sincere. You would
know that he couldn't *possibly* have believe what he was saying.
Once you went and read the *ACTUAL* paragraph you would realize how
completely insincere he was being, and you would know that he was not
trying to have a serious conversation, but instead, was up to the same
old behavior.
He knew what he was doing. He had no intention of behaving reasonably.
He intentionally incited trouble.
I have to go for the day.
TTYS,
Jim D.
<snip>
Dan C
> I am going to just deal with this issue at the moment, since I have
> little time available today, and your ISP would block it if I addressed
> everything all at once anyway.
...And the other issues are too difficult for you to deal with...
> All that would have been required was for you to follow Dan Cs
> suggestion and go back and look at the paragraph he cited as "proof"
> that we were talking about how things work and not how things could be
> done. (you can still do this, of course) Then you would see that he
> snipped and copied the first half of the paragraph and left the second
> half, in order to make it *LOOK* like he was right/sincere. You would
> know that he couldn't *possibly* have believe what he was saying.
The second half of the paragraph was irrelevant, that's why it was
snipped. No reason other than that.
> Once you went and read the *ACTUAL* paragraph you would realize how
> completely insincere he was being, and you would know that he was not
> trying to have a serious conversation, but instead, was up to the same
> old behavior.
I hope he does go back and read it. It is indeed quite obvious that I had
no evil intentions.
> He knew what he was doing. He had no intention of behaving reasonably.
> He intentionally incited trouble.
Wrong, again. Don't you get tired of being wrong? Perhaps if you'd just
stop posting, you wouldn't appear to be such a fool.
> I have to go for the day.
Why not make it a month, or a year?
Dan C
>> "sid" is Dan C posting anonymously from aioe.org ... LOL ;-)
> Hey knobchops, check out the alt.os.linux.mandrake group, I post there using
> my isp's news server. You'll find my real ip and my location there.
> I post on this group through a free news server that I found on this page
> http://freenews.maxbaud.net/
> because my isp refuses to add this group to it's feed.
Thanks for clearing that up, sid. Assuming you haven't copyrighted that
term, I've added it to my toolbag. I like it. ;-)
> This time you've made a complete and utter ass of your self, right here
> for everyone to see.
LOL! How is "this time" different than any other time he posts?
Dan C
<snip>
>>> You do not ask Dan C what happened to his agreement to stop following
>>> up my posts.
> As I understood it, the agreement was not that Dan would stop following
> up to your posts, but that he agreed to cease the hostility, which is
> exactly what I had asked him to do.
Yes, and which is exactly what I did do, until Dines started back in with
the insults.
> Dan kept on being polite in his follow-ups to your post, until the
> moment where you resorted to namecalling again. *That* is why I wrote
> "That's a big mistake, Jim"...
Exactly correct. Thank you for pointing that out, Aragorn.
>>> You you chastise me!
> I don't consider that to have been chastising. I'd say the tone of my
> post was still quite friendly and polite. I considered it an advice, a
> few words of wisdom, if you will.
Anytime someone disagrees with Dines, he sees it as a confrontation. That
should be obvious to all by now.
<snip>
>>> You, also, are but one person. Also, I have stated my disappointment
>>> with the way you got Dan C to agree with a plan, and then he violated
>>> it you chastised me, rather than calling him on it and correcting his
>>> absurd claim ... no hard feelings, of course.
> As stated a few paragraphs higher up already, I did not see Dan as
> breaking his agreement, since he managed to post in a serene manner - by
> which I mean "no insults and no namecalling".
Another typical Dines attempt at twisting, and again thank you to Aragorn
for pointing out the truth. I did indeed attempt to engage in a normal
conversation/debate with Dines, but he immediately started insulting me.
It's all there in the record.
Dines, you are asked to be civilized, or leave the newsgroup immediately.
James J. Dines
Others have asked the same question, and I will ask it also. *Why* does
your ISP utterly refuse to add the Mandriva newsgroup to it's feed.
*Perhaps* you are the same sid that posted 5 times between Sept. 27,
2005 and Feb 17th 2006, each time asking a relatively newbie question.
This is, at best, an extremely dubious claim, and alas for you if it is
true, you will never be able to prove it because your ISP considers the
Mandriva group to be a subversive terrorist related group that it
refuses to carry.
Some questions do remain unanswered though. Given the fact that "you"
have been around only since September 27th yourself, and never offered
any help to anyone, but instead asked 5 very basic questions in that
whole time ... why would you suddenly adopt Dan C's pattern exactly,
hold yourself out to posses knowledge you obviously don't posses, and
then make the following statement:
'If you weren't so condescending you might find yourself less likely
to end in the sort of useless diatribe that we have going on here. For
someone so new to the Mand* groups you seem to expect some sort of
respect that you "just haven't earned it yet baby" [1]'
(Message ID <e1hb90$7s2$1...@emma.aioe.org> ) ????
Ultimately, it doesn't matter which is true. You act like Dan C, make
the same kind of ludicrous statements, and you practice the same kind of
childlike tactics of intentional context manipulation and rigid
adherence to the principle that if you say it enough times it suddenly
becomes true.
The bottom line? You can't prove you are not Dan C, your claim that
your only option is to post anonymously is more than dubious, and it
makes no difference anyway, since if you are not him, you are his
brother from another mother.
Dan C
<snip a bunch of paranoid, incoherent rambling, which was a poor attempt
to deflect attention away from the fact that you've made a complete ass of
yourself with your ludicrous (you like that word?!) claims. What a joke.
> The bottom line? You can't prove you are not Dan C, your claim that
> your only option is to post anonymously is more than dubious, and it
> makes no difference anyway, since if you are not him, you are his
> brother from another mother.
And here, ladies and gentlemen, you can see a good example of a "man"
starting to lose it. He's going over the edge, right in front of us.
You know who you sound like, Dines? Your brother "Matt_the_Mouth". Both
extremely paranoid, both MUST always have the last word, and both always
demanding "proof" of someone's claim, even though they won't back up any
of their own outrageous claims, and in fact try to deflect any attention
from their glaring mistakes. Yup, you two are a good match.
Why don't you just bugger on off, and leave the newsgroup in peace?
sid
>>> ROTFL ... No *wonder* sid and Dan C are so much alike ...
>>>
>>> "sid" is Dan C posting anonymously from aioe.org ... LOL ;-)
>>
>> Hey knobchops, check out the alt.os.linux.mandrake group, I post there
>> using my isp's news server. You'll find my real ip and my location there.
>> I post on this group through a free news server that I found on this page
>> http://freenews.maxbaud.net/
>> because my isp refuses to add this group to it's feed.
>> This time you've made a complete and utter ass of your self, right here
>> for everyone to see.
>>
>> ttfn
>
> Others have asked the same question, and I will ask it also. *Why* does
> your ISP utterly refuse to add the Mandriva newsgroup to it's feed.
No, one other has asked the same question, surely you can tell the
difference between singular and plural. And I answered him in another post.
> *Perhaps* you are the same sid that posted 5 times between Sept. 27,
> 2005 and Feb 17th 2006, each time asking a relatively newbie question.
Posted where? If you are talking about alt.os.linux.mandrake, my posts there
go back to Feb 2003. Check it out knobchops.
> This is, at best, an extremely dubious claim, and alas for you if it is
> true, you will never be able to prove it because your ISP considers the
> Mandriva group to be a subversive terrorist related group that it
> refuses to carry.
WTF *are* you talking about now?
> Some questions do remain unanswered though. Given the fact that "you"
> have been around only since September 27th yourself,
This group has not even been in existence much longer than that you moron.
> any help to anyone, but instead asked 5 very basic questions in that
> whole time ... why would you suddenly adopt Dan C's pattern exactly,
> hold yourself out to posses knowledge you obviously don't posses,
You don't half talk some shit, what knowledge have I ever claimed to posses?
On more than one occasion I have derided myself by calling myself a thickie.
The complete opposite to you it seems.
> and
> then make the following statement:
> 'If you weren't so condescending you might find yourself less likely
> to end in the sort of useless diatribe that we have going on here. For
> someone so new to the Mand* groups you seem to expect some sort of
> respect that you "just haven't earned it yet baby" [1]'
The statement speaks for it's self.
> Ultimately, it doesn't matter which is true.
That's rich coming from you, what has all the arguing been about then?
> You act like Dan C, make
> the same kind of ludicrous statements, and you practice the same kind of
> childlike tactics of intentional context manipulation and rigid
> adherence to the principle that if you say it enough times it suddenly
> becomes true.
That is complete and utter bollocks and we all know it. You have been the
only one manipulating your own statements to justify your own inaccuracies.
> The bottom line? You can't prove you are not Dan C,
Yes I can, and I have, knobchops.
> your claim that
> your only option is to post anonymously is more than dubious,
Why? Can you not read? Try here......but watch the wrap
http://www.blueyonder.co.uk:80/blueyonder/getContent.jspx?page=
h_services_news_advanced_addnews
> and it
> makes no difference anyway, since if you are not him, you are his
> brother from another mother.
Didn't you get that the wrong way around. Normally people use that sort of
insult to imply ones mother is a whore. Who gives a toss if their father
has been shagging around. You can't even insult very well either can you?
LOL.
Douglas Mayne
> Beowulf wrote:
>> I can not dual boot into WindowsXP any more, however my boot into Mandriva
>> is fine> I built a new PC (new motherboard, new CPU), transferred my three
>> IDE hard drives and DVDRW drive to the new system in exactly the same
>> configuration (same master/slave arrangement on IDE cables, no alteration
>> of jumpers on drives, etc). Now if I choose Windows from LILO I get a blue
>> screen with long hex code error codes with Windows complaining that the
>> drives may be installed incorrectly, to check cables, etc.
>>
>> Any suggestions? Should I drive to boot a Win98/DOS rescue disc and do a
>> "fdisk /mbr" and the use the Mandriva install DVD to restore LILO? Other
>> options?
>>
>
> This is another advantage Linux has over Windows (I am assuming you have
> different motherboard and CPU types, and not the same exact
> manufacturer, model, and revision here.)
>
> You cannot simply drop a Windows XP installation into a machine with
> different hardware and have it boot in many cases! Unless the hardware
> is very similar you will get the Boot Screen of Death (meet the new
> BSOD, same as the old BSOD) ;-)
>
> Put the drive back in your old machine, back up all of your data, then
> move it to your new machine, re-install Windows XP, re-install Windows
> XP Drivers, re-install all of your applications, restore your data, and
> try to keep in mind at all times that "Windows just works" ;-)
>
> CAVEAT: I would wait to see if somebody else has a work-around on this
> before following the above advice, in case there IS a way around this
> and I have just never heard of it. The basic point remains though ...
>
> Windows just ... what?
>
> Good Luck!
>
Caveat: I am not running Windows XP. I have done this with W2k, but it
was slow.
You can run Windows "setup" from the Windows CD, but you need to do it
before upgrading your PC. Once your running setup, it will complete its
first phase of setup completes, and it is prompting to reboot- just
shutdown. Then perform your hardware upgrade. Resume setup with your new
box. The loader may be a trick to get right if your are upgrading disks,
but if you install grub as the loader you'll be ahead. When primary setup
has completed, then apply all service packs. Then call India and beg for a
new activation code. They may not give you one.
I'd agree strongly that the GNU/Linux approach is superior. There's no
wondering what it takes to get your data and program setting. There all
there in your home directory. And there's no need to ask permission.
How many times do you want to do this? Think about going virtual and
never having to go through this again. I know this may not be acceptable
if you're a gamer, but it works for a general purpose Windowx box. The
thing about virtual machines is that the virtual hardware is compatible
(and won't blue screen on different hardware). Perhaps, this "last" time
could be to switch to the "last" machine you'll ever need- go virtual
(vmware).
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/fecd6ad386d8c597
--
Douglas Mayne
James J. Dines
> James J. Dines wrote:
>
>>> ttfn
>> Others have asked the same question, and I will ask it also. *Why* does
>> your ISP utterly refuse to add the Mandriva newsgroup to it's feed.
>
> No, one other has asked the same question, surely you can tell the
> difference between singular and plural. And I answered him in another post.
>
<snip>
Aragorn
words to the masses in /alt.os.linux.mandriva...:/
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:36:14 +0000, Aragorn wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> You do not ask Dan C what happened to his agreement to stop
>>>> following up my posts.
>
>> As I understood it, the agreement was not that Dan would stop
>> following up to your posts, but that he agreed to cease the
>> hostility, which is exactly what I had asked him to do.
>
> Yes, and which is exactly what I did do, until Dines started back in
> with the insults.
Indeed it was. Now I can understand that J.J. Dines was feeling
aggravated in a way and therefore resorted to namecalling again, but it
*is* regrettable... :-/
Jim has been really active at helping out newbies, and I find that
commendable. If he makes a mistake in doing so, then there is no shame
in that. We all make mistakes; it's what makes us human.
Nevertheless, I can appreciate Jim's input, just as I appreciate the
input of every other regular on this newsgroup. Well... that is except
for one - <cough> see /alt.os.linux.mandrake/ </cough>, although even
he offers some good advice every now and then - rare as it may be.
I've said it before, I consider /alt.os.linux.mandrake/ and
/alt.os.linux.mandriva/ to be my Usenet home. That won't change even
after I'll have made the switch to Gentoo. And nobody likes it if
there is arguing going on in their home... :-/
>> Dan kept on being polite in his follow-ups to your post, until the
>> moment where you resorted to namecalling again. *That* is why I
>> wrote "That's a big mistake, Jim"...
>
> Exactly correct. Thank you for pointing that out, Aragorn.
I was actually quite satisfied that you chose to resort to some serious
debating and not to namecalling, Dan. Conversing as adults -
regardless of what the topic is - is the first step towards peace, and
I was glad you were complying to my request.
>>>> You you chastise me!
>
>> I don't consider that to have been chastising. I'd say the tone of
>> my post was still quite friendly and polite. I considered it an
>> advice, a few words of wisdom, if you will.
>
> Anytime someone disagrees with Dines, he sees it as a confrontation.
> That should be obvious to all by now.
When people feel they have been attacked by me while I know that I
didn't mean to come across as such, I find that regrettable, and then I
try to reason with them.
I can understand that some people are more defensive than others. I've
had to go through plenty of crap in my life myself, so I fully relate
to people's needs for a defense.
Yet, as J.J. should have known by now, I mean no harm, and I was not
attacking him. I was only telling him that what he was doing right
there and right then was a wrong move. It was hazardous to the newly
restored peace, and time has proven me right on that one.
I hope J.J. will realize that my comment was well-intended.
>>>> You, also, are but one person. Also, I have stated my
>>>> disappointment with the way you got Dan C to agree with a plan, and
>>>> then he violated it you chastised me, rather than calling him on it
>>>> and correcting his absurd claim ... no hard feelings, of course.
>
>> As stated a few paragraphs higher up already, I did not see Dan as
>> breaking his agreement, since he managed to post in a serene manner -
>> by which I mean "no insults and no namecalling".
>
> Another typical Dines attempt at twisting, and again thank you to
> Aragorn for pointing out the truth. I did indeed attempt to engage in
> a normal conversation/debate with Dines, but he immediately started
> insulting me. It's all there in the record.
His reaction may have been driven by emotion (and probably was), and I
don't condone it. I do however understand it, and I would hope that
it's not too late to restore the peace yet... :-/
> Dines, you are asked to be civilized, or leave the newsgroup
> immediately.
I'm not asking him to leave the group, as I feel he's quite a helpful
person. The ignorant newbies can only benefit from the helpfulness of
the community we've got here, so in that respect, I'd say "the more,
the merrier".
It would however be very nice if everyone could just forget about this
whole issue and carry on with the helpful exchanges of information...
:-/
Aragorn
following words to the masses in /alt.os.linux.mandriva...:/
> Aragorn wrote:
>
>> That's because the technical relevance of the thread was not what I
>> was responding to. Doing so would have...
>> (1) required me to reread the entire thread to see who wrote what
>> exactly; and
>> (2) get involved and choose sides in the technical debate, which was
>> in itself too deeply entangled with a personal conflict that I did
>> _not_ want to get involved in - I'm not exactly Usenet-suicidal and
>> I'm not looking to make enemies.
>
> I am going to just deal with this issue at the moment, since I have
> little time available today, and your ISP would block it if I
> addressed everything all at once anyway.
Yeah, probably... It sucks when they do that... However, they're quite
good at everything else, so it's not enough of an incentive to switch
ISP's or newsservers over...
> All that would have been required was for you to follow Dan Cs
> suggestion and go back and look at the paragraph he cited as "proof"
> that we were talking about how things work and not how things could be
> done. (you can still do this, of course)
Yes, I know, but first of all that whole thing was becoming too much of
an overload for my autistic brain, and secondly that was specifically
what I did not *want* to do as it would have forced me to choose sides.
I saw a chance to peace in the fact that Dan had started following up on
your posts without resorting to namecalling, and I saw that you
jeopardized that frail chance at peace again by insulting him.
The above is not to say that I put any blame on you, but just that I
wanted to point out to you that what you were doing right there and
right then was wrong and dangerous. And that's as far as I wanted to
get involved in that debate.
By the same token, I could also have let the two of you go at
eachother's throats like bloodhounds, or - what would even have been
plainly unfair - side up with one of you and chastise or flame the
other one.
I chose neither of those. I chose to be myself. The trolls and orks
from Mordor are our enemies, not the Knights of Gondor!
> Then you would see that he snipped and copied the first half of the
> paragraph and left the second half, in order to make it *LOOK* like he
> was right/sincere. You would know that he couldn't *possibly* have
> believe what he was saying.
I don't believe that Dan would resort to manipulations like that in
order to prove himself right or make a point. Dan can be quite
aggressively outspoken at times, but that in itself should tell you
enough, as someone who is aggressively outspoken will not manipulate
texts or resort to the more subtle and evil approaches.
I believe that Dan is someone who will simply speak his mind, regardless
of what he thinks. He's the kind of guy who doesn't censor his
thoughts or his words. He has no need for subtle manipulations, and as
rude as you may find him at times, you are actually better off dealing
with someone like Dan than with some of the more manipulative people
I've encountered during my stay on /comp.os.linux.advocacy./
> Once you went and read the *ACTUAL* paragraph you would realize how
> completely insincere he was being, and you would know that he was not
> trying to have a serious conversation, but instead, was up to the same
> old behavior.
You shouldn't always be reading more into it than what is really there.
Not as a flame, blame or insult to you, but I'm sure you also still
remember how your conflict with me got started, don't you? It was
because you were reading more into what I had written than what I had
really intended to be there.
> He knew what he was doing. He had no intention of behaving
> reasonably. He intentionally incited trouble.
No, Jim, it is my conviction that he was not. You have to remember that
I've been around the two /A.O.L.M./ newsgroups quite a bit longer than
you have, and that I've seen how people post.
I therefore in all honesty do not believe that Dan's intents were
malicious, especially not since he complied with my request to instate
a truce between the two of you.
> I have to go for the day.
Have fun! ;-)
Dan C
<snip>
>> He knew what he was doing. He had no intention of behaving
>> reasonably. He intentionally incited trouble.
> No, Jim, it is my conviction that he was not. You have to remember that
> I've been around the two /A.O.L.M./ newsgroups quite a bit longer than
> you have, and that I've seen how people post.
Thank you, Aragorn. You are correct in your conviction.
> I therefore in all honesty do not believe that Dan's intents were
> malicious, especially not since he complied with my request to instate
> a truce between the two of you.
Correct again. I did try, and immediately Dines went on the offensive. I
believe his behavior comes from having to always be right, and always get
the last word. Based on poor self-esteem, I'm quite sure.
Dan C
<snip>
>>> As I understood it, the agreement was not that Dan would stop
>>> following up to your posts, but that he agreed to cease the
>>> hostility, which is exactly what I had asked him to do.
>> Yes, and which is exactly what I did do, until Dines started back in
>> with the insults.
> Indeed it was. Now I can understand that J.J. Dines was feeling
> aggravated in a way and therefore resorted to namecalling again, but it
> *is* regrettable... :-/
Yup.
> Jim has been really active at helping out newbies, and I find that
> commendable. If he makes a mistake in doing so, then there is no shame
> in that. We all make mistakes; it's what makes us human.
Agreed, and I would normally allow Dines to make a mistake without getting
all excited myself. However, with his pedantic need to constantly correct
others, and try to force "his way" of posting, he brings it upon himself.
Then, when an obvious error is pointed out to him, he begins the process
of trying to wriggle out of it, and to twist the facts to show something
other than what the truth. That right there is what gets me going, not
the fact that he makes mistakes like the rest of us.
<snip>
>>> Dan kept on being polite in his follow-ups to your post, until the
>>> moment where you resorted to namecalling again. *That* is why I wrote
>>> "That's a big mistake, Jim"...
>> Exactly correct. Thank you for pointing that out, Aragorn.
> I was actually quite satisfied that you chose to resort to some serious
> debating and not to namecalling, Dan. Conversing as adults - regardless
> of what the topic is - is the first step towards peace, and I was glad
> you were complying to my request.
I had made up my mind to attempt to hold a decent and reasonable
conversation, but in my very first post I received his attacks again, for
no reason. I'm glad that you, at least, can see that I tried.
<snip>
> Yet, as J.J. should have known by now, I mean no harm, and I was not
> attacking him. I was only telling him that what he was doing right
> there and right then was a wrong move. It was hazardous to the newly
> restored peace, and time has proven me right on that one.
Certainly correct.
> I hope J.J. will realize that my comment was well-intended.
I hope so too, but I doubt it.
<snip>
> His reaction may have been driven by emotion (and probably was), and I
> don't condone it. I do however understand it, and I would hope that
> it's not too late to restore the peace yet... :-/
Hard to say. I'm willing to get along with anyone, but he will have to
leave his pompous ego, his holier-than-thou attitude, and his penchant for
twisting words around at the door for that to be possible. He'll also
have to learn to accept that he is occasionally wrong, and not try to
launch a campaign to "prove" the other party is just picking on him.
>> Dines, you are asked to be civilized, or leave the newsgroup
>> immediately.
> I'm not asking him to leave the group, as I feel he's quite a helpful
> person. The ignorant newbies can only benefit from the helpfulness of
> the community we've got here, so in that respect, I'd say "the more, the
> merrier".
I would certainly prefer that he just leave, but am willing to get along
if he wants to (see above).
Let's see what happens...
Aragorn
words to the masses in /alt.os.linux.mandriva...:/
> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 07:23:34 +0000, Aragorn wrote:
>
>> I therefore in all honesty do not believe that Dan's intents were
>> malicious, especially not since he complied with my request to
>> instate a truce between the two of you.
>
> Correct again. I did try, and immediately Dines went on the
> offensive. I believe his behavior comes from having to always be
> right, and always get the last word. Based on poor self-esteem, I'm
> quite sure.
Another possibility could be that he's got a compulsive obsession with
proving himself right when he feels that he is, and in that case, he's
not really responsible for being so tenacious about it.
I do not mean this in a bad way as I only have to look at myself in
order to see someone with obsessive-compulsive behavior. This is
exactly why I wittingly asked J.J. a short while ago whether he was an
Aspie too.
In my case, I'm not obsessive-compulsive in regards to proving myself
right towards other people - it's rather that I have to prove myself
right to myself all the time - or that I have a compulsion to come out
of a debate as the winner - e.g. /cfr./ Matt - but such compulsions do
exist and it's possible that J.J. has such a compulsion. I'm leaving
it up to him to either confirm or deny that.
As for poor self-esteem, I also know what that's like - that is _why_ I
have to prove myself right _to_ myself all the time; I have no
self-confidence whatsoever. That is: I am confident in my abilities,
but not in my self as a person.
Self-esteem is not the same thing as self-respect. Self-esteem is
determined by how others treat you, and I know for a fact that the
world is full of people who simply enjoy undermining someone's
self-esteem, either for their entertainment - which is what happened to
me in highschool - or because they seek to put you exactly there where
they want you to be - which is what my parents did to keep me docile...
Man, if I could go back in time, I would sure punch a few people's
lights out... :-/ But oh well... Einstein and Hawking say that it
can't be done... :-)
Damn, just my luck again... ;-þ
Douglas Mayne
<snip>
I decided to edit my post (because the original was unintelligle in
places, and because I would like to refer to it again.)
Caveat: I am not running Windows XP. I have done this with
W2k, but it was slow.
You can run Windows "setup" from the Windows CD, but you need to do it
_before_ upgrading your PC.
Here are the full instructions from Microsoft:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/824125
In general, start running Windows setup, and let it run until the first
phase completes. It is complete when it is prompting for you to reboot (or
when it automatically shuts down.)
After setup is shut down, perform your hardware upgrade. You can upgrade
disks at this point, too. ntfsclone is a good tool for copying ntfs
partitions. Remember, if your are installing a new disk, then you will
need to install a bootloader, too. I use grub as the loader. Once your
new hardware is ready, then resume Windows setup. It will continue from
where it left off. When the second phase setup is complete, then apply all
service packs and windows patches. Finally, you may need to (re)activate
your Windows license. Call India and beg for a new activation code. They
may not give you one, and Windows will stop working after 90 days. In
that case, I hope you will get your money's worth in that time.
I'd strongly agree that the GNU/Linux approach is superior. First, the
loader allows you to specify a kernel which is appropriate for your
hardware. The kernel is _independant_, not integrated into the OS (as is
Windows- via the registry.) Second, there's no wondering what it takes to
get your data and program settings. They're all right there in your home
directory. Windows integrates a lot of the user's program settings into
the registry. This makes it difficult to isolate the user's settings,
and to use them on another similar Windows box. Third, I especially like
not having to ask anyone's permission (above paragraph). Let freedom ring.
Final thoughts...
How many times do you want to do this? Think about going virtual and
never having to go through this again. I know this may not be acceptable
if you're a gamer, but it works for a general purpose Windows box. One
nice thing about virtual machines is that the introduction of virtual
hardware will always work with Microsoft's (broken) HAL concept. Virtual
hardware will be compatible and won't cause a Windows blue screen on
different real hardware. Perhaps, you could take this as an opportunity to
go virtual, and switch to the "last" windows computer you'll ever need.
I wrote this recently about VMWare:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/fecd6ad386d8c597
--
Ripley: And you let him in.
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0078748/quotes
James J. Dines
<snip>
>
> I saw a chance to peace in the fact that Dan had started following up on
> your posts without resorting to namecalling, and I saw that you
> jeopardized that frail chance at peace again by insulting him.
You seem to define "hostility" as name calling. OTOH, I consider it to
be a very hostile act when people intentionally manipulate context to
make it appear as though you said something you did not, and then say
you don't know what you are talking about, when they know full well that
you do.
I suspect that if I suddenly started grabbing sentences you had written
here and there out of context and used them to make it look like you
were clueless, you would see that act as quite hostile indeed.
Here is what Dan C says to claim the subject is how things are done:
#######################################################################
Sure we are. Go ahead and scroll back to the top of this, where your
paragraph that begins with "OTOH..." is. You state that "it's a silly way
for Mandriva to do things...". That means we are talking about how it
*is* done, not how it *could/would/should* be done. Simple.
#######################################################################
And here is the paragraph you would have seen if you had done so:
#######################################################################
OTOH, I think this is a very silly way for Mandriva to do things, since
there is no down-side to installing the updated kernel, so long as the
process of modifying the bootloader default is left as a manual one.
Multiple kernels coexist quite well together, and they could be
installed along with a notice that you need to modify the bootloader
default manually.
#######################################################################
Clearly, Dan C read the paragraph, knows full well what the topic is,
and merely quotes part of one sentence "it's a silly way for Mandriva to
do things...", knowing full well that the paragraph makes it quite clear
that I am talking about a proposed way it *could* be done.
Frankly, Aragorn, he is playing you, and you are falling for it.
>
<snip>
>
> I don't believe that Dan would resort to manipulations like that in
> order to prove himself right or make a point. Dan can be quite
> aggressively outspoken at times, but that in itself should tell you
> enough, as someone who is aggressively outspoken will not manipulate
> texts or resort to the more subtle and evil approaches.
I can only conclude that you still hadn't gone back and looked at the
*paragraph* that he cited, and so still have not seen that he *clearly*
manipulated context.
<snip>
> No, Jim, it is my conviction that he was not. You have to remember that
> I've been around the two /A.O.L.M./ newsgroups quite a bit longer than
> you have, and that I've seen how people post.
>
> I therefore in all honesty do not believe that Dan's intents were
> malicious, especially not since he complied with my request to instate
> a truce between the two of you.
>
Again, you only have trouble believing this because you didn't compare
the snippet he quoted with the context from which it was taken.
>> I have to go for the day.
>
> Have fun! ;-)
>
Peace,
Jim D.
James J. Dines
> On Saturday 15 April 2006 15:47, Dan C stood up and spoke the following
> words to the masses in /alt.os.linux.mandriva...:/
>
>> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 07:23:34 +0000, Aragorn wrote:
>>
>>> I therefore in all honesty do not believe that Dan's intents were
>>> malicious, especially not since he complied with my request to
>>> instate a truce between the two of you.
>> Correct again. I did try, and immediately Dines went on the
>> offensive. I believe his behavior comes from having to always be
>> right, and always get the last word. Based on poor self-esteem, I'm
>> quite sure.
>
> Another possibility could be that he's got a compulsive obsession with
> proving himself right when he feels that he is, and in that case, he's
> not really responsible for being so tenacious about it.
Let me go on record as saying that I could give flying fuck who is
right. I *do* have an "obsessive" compulsion to arrive at the truth. I
have mentioned this before, and I know that it sounds a bit insane to
those ignorant to this area of humanity, but I am a Sagittarius. We
value the truth above all else. This is where you see a parallel between
those with Aspergers and me ... i.e. there actually is one, however
remote ... it is the "Vulcan" quality to which you have often alluded
and from time to time referred.
I am *MORE* than willing to look millions of people in the face and say
that I have made a mistake and that I was *WRONG* .. I will shrug ....
it happens ;-)
There is a single caveat ... and it is this ... it has to be *TRUE* that
I was wrong!!!!
>
> I do not mean this in a bad way as I only have to look at myself in
> order to see someone with obsessive-compulsive behavior. This is
> exactly why I wittingly asked J.J. a short while ago whether he was an
> Aspie too.
I swear upon your God and all of mine that I did not read this paragraph
until after writing the above response!
>
> In my case, I'm not obsessive-compulsive in regards to proving myself
> right towards other people - it's rather that I have to prove myself
> right to myself all the time - or that I have a compulsion to come out
> of a debate as the winner - e.g. /cfr./ Matt - but such compulsions do
> exist and it's possible that J.J. has such a compulsion. I'm leaving
> it up to him to either confirm or deny that.
>
I confirm that I value truth and despise bullshit ...
> As for poor self-esteem, I also know what that's like - that is _why_ I
> have to prove myself right _to_ myself all the time; I have no
> self-confidence whatsoever. That is: I am confident in my abilities,
> but not in my self as a person.
I have a passing idea what that is like ... my Father used to undermine
my self-valuation ...
>
> Self-esteem is not the same thing as self-respect. Self-esteem is
> determined by how others treat you,
*NO* **it** **isn't**!!!! Self-esteem lives independently of that. If
you have self-esteem (some) people will call you narcissistic!!!
> and I know for a fact that the
> world is full of people who simply enjoy undermining someone's
> self-esteem,
... hmm ... doesn't ring any bells ;-)
> either for their entertainment - which is what happened to
> me in highschool - or because they seek to put you exactly there where
> they want you to be - which is what my parents did to keep me docile...
You have given in to them. I know none of this is easy ...
>
> Man, if I could go back in time, I would sure punch a few people's
> lights out... :-/
That would solve nothing. The same people who would undermine your
self-confidence are those who will thank you publicly while speaking
badly about you out of the side of their neck.
> But oh well... Einstein and Hawking say that it
> can't be done... :-)
>
Einstein and Hawking are such fools that they think that time exists!!!!
They are correct, but only because it doesn't ;-)
> Damn, just my luck again... ;-þ
>
Some day, Aragorn, you will stop judging yourself by others twisted
perceptions. On that day, I will rejoice ...