The Answer Troll Holmes Won't Accept

[Christopher Strimbu]

A lonely, pathetic troll named Ben Holmes has been going around this forum asking everyone what time JFK's body arrived at the Bethesda morgue. He first asked this question to me on the thread titled "JFK Videos". I answered his question with this excerpt from Humes Warren Commission testimony:

Mr. SPECTER - What time did the autopsy start approximately?
Commander HUMES - The president's body was received at 25 minutes before 8, and the autopsy began at approximately 8 p.m. on that evening.

Troll Holmes, not liking the answer, whined that I lied. Of course, when I posted Humes testimony, he did the usual and snipped it.

He then asks David Von Pein for the answer. He answers similarly to me. Holmes doesn't like it, and snips his way through it.

This shows how Ben Holmes is either an ignorant fool, a lying coward, or a troll wasting everyone's time. I'm going with the last option.

And a final note for Holmes: if you can answer these questions, I will quit calling you troll and call you by your actual name, like you want me to do. If not, I will refer to you however I please, and will refuse to engage in any discussion with you.

So answer these questions (no snipping or dodging this time):

1. What time do you think JFK's body arrived at Bethesda? Be sure to back your claims with citations and evidence.

2. Why did you call me and Von Pein liars when we specifically quoted the testimony of the autopsy doctors?

3. Why do you think this question is the least bit important?

If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.

Ta ta.

[Gil Jesus]

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:45:14 PM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:

>
> If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
>
> Ta ta.

PROMISE ?

[Christopher Strimbu]

With ever fiber of my being. Why would I ever want to diddle with the maggot again if he doesn't answer?

[Hank Sienzant]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 7:22:07 AM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:

Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?

[Ben Holmes]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
<christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> A lonely, pathetic troll named Ben Holmes has been going around this
> forum asking everyone what time JFK's body arrived at the Bethesda
> morgue. He first asked this question to me on the thread titled "JFK
> Videos".

And, as I've said a number of times, this question has been asked for
YEARS.

With no response.

> I answered his question ...

No, you didn't. And you *KNOW* you didn't at this point in time.

Define "lying by omission."


But you won't...

[Ben Holmes]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
<christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> And a final note for Holmes: if you can answer these questions, I
> will quit calling you troll and call you by your actual name, like you
> want me to do.

This would be simply normal courtesy. Why would I have to bribe you
to show ordinary courtesy?

> If not, I will refer to you however I please, and will refuse to
> engage in any discussion with you.

So you're offering to be Steven.

Problem is, you can't convince anyone this way.

People will wonder why you can't refute what I point out.

>So answer these questions (no snipping or dodging this time):

I will do so just in order to prove you a liar. I quite expect,
before the year is out, that you'll prove that you lied in this post.

> 1. What time do you think JFK's body arrived at Bethesda? Be sure to
> back your claims with citations and evidence.

The EARLIEST and DOCUMENTED evidence is for 1835. You're already
aware of it. And it's already been cited. Here it is again:
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md236/html/md236_0005a.htm

Dennis David, in his ARRB testimony, put it at 1845, quite consistent
with Boyajian.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708

Ditto with Edward Reed, ARRB testimony... who put it at 1830.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=794

As I've stated, there were THREE documented entry times of JFK's body,
1835, 1917, 1935 (in two separate caskets.)

Now, why do I settle on the earliest? Because it easily explains the
later "entries," but it doesn't work the other way around. If you
truly believe that the casket didn't arrive until shortly before 8,
then you got a lot of 'splainin to do.

(But you won't.)

And since the plane landed at 1800, 1835 works far better than an hour
and a half *later*.

David Powers claimed:"The trip [from Andrews AFB to Bethesda Naval
Hospital] took about 15 minutes; I remember going very quickly and
with an escort" (THE DAY JFK DIED, p. 34).

From Andrews to Bethesda is just 20 miles.

You got some 'splainin to do.

(But you won't.)

Douglas Horne has documented *SEPARATE* casket teams who brought the
casket in... as well as having demonstrated that there was *NO-ONE*
who was with the body at all times. See his five volume set of books.

You won't refute *ANY* of this... nor, I predict, will you even try.

And you *CLEARLY* lied by omission - no-one would know OTHER THAN BY
READING -MY- posts, that there was any evidence other than the Humes
testimony.

So you're a proven liar.

>2. Why did you call me and Von Pein liars when we specifically quoted the testimony of the autopsy doctors?

https://psychopathsinlife.com/omission-lying/

How many times has Mark Lane been accused of lying by omission? Why
do you think **YOU** are safe from the same charge, when it's so
easily proven?

Do you think that only *critics* can be charged with lying by
omission?

>3. Why do you think this question is the least bit important?

Because, YEARS ago, when I first started asking it, Chuckles was
complaining that there couldn't have been a pre-autopsy autopsy.

He never did answer... and hasn't posted for some time now...

It *IS* amusing that believers always whine about the importance of
evidence that clearly *IS* important.

**YOU** need to explain nearly an hour and a half of just sitting
around doing nothing.

I don't.

(You won't, however...)

>If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.

I've answered fully, completely, and very credibly. You, on the other
hand, are desperately seeking a reason to run away and stop
responding.

You don't *need* a reason, just do it! Cowardice doesn't need a
reason. If you want to run away, you'd simply be joining a lonnnnng
list of other believers, such as Tony Marsh, Johnny McAss, and Davy
Von Peiny ... to name just a few.

>Ta ta.

[Ben Holmes]

This is, of course, Huckster's burden. He refuses to honestly answer.

What Huckster is trying to do, of course, is to see if Gil will answer
in a way that is any different WHATSOEVER from my answer, so he can
whine about it.

But Huckster won't point out that Chrissy, Chickenshit, Davey Von
Peiny all lied by omission... and of course, this is EXACTLY what
Huckster is doing right now.

He knows I'm pointing out evidence, and he just HATES that.

[Christopher Strimbu]

Well finally Ben! I mean, it took you a little while, but you finally came around. Now we can discuss this evidence.

[Christopher Strimbu]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:10:03 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > A lonely, pathetic troll named Ben Holmes has been going around this
> > forum asking everyone what time JFK's body arrived at the Bethesda
> > morgue. He first asked this question to me on the thread titled "JFK
> > Videos".
> And, as I've said a number of times, this question has been asked for
> YEARS.
>
> With no response.
>

It's been answered since 2013. Read Von Pein's blog where he argues with David Lifton.

> > I answered his question ...
>
> No, you didn't. And you *KNOW* you didn't at this point in time.
>

I did here: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/pK9JOFHVwjw/m/1j1LRo_KAQAJ

Pretend this doesn't exist.

> Define "lying by omission."
>

https://www.aconsciousrethink.com/6477/lie-of-omission/#:~:text=Lying%20by%20omission%20is%20when,didn't%20tell%20you.%E2%80%9D

Lying by omission is when a person leaves out important information or fails to correct a pre-existing misconception in order to hide the truth from others.

Now you need to prove that I indeed did lie. Or you can take the easy way out and admit you don't have anything, in which case, I'll forgive you.

>
> But you won't...

[Gil Jesus]

I've already posted the document from the ARRB saying that the casket was received at Bethesda at 1835 EST.
When Air Force One came to a stop on the tarmac at Andrews, Captain Swindall looked at his watch. It said 5:59pm.
The time of arrival at Andrews of 6:00pm is consistent with that.
I find the time of arrival at Bethesda of 6:35 to be entirely consistent with that timeline.

I believe Humes lied about the time. His credibility in this case is questionable at best.
He's the same "witness" who burned his autopsy notes as soon as Oswald was dead. His excuse that Kennedy's blood was on the notes is inexcuseable.
He could have made a copy which would NOT have had blood on it. He chose instead to destroy the notes entirely.
First, he missed the throat wound.
Then, after he found out about the throat wound, he moved the back wound up to the base of the neck.
Even the autopsy photos show the back wound below the top of the shoulders. Not on the neck.
So I don't believe him when he says that the casket arrived at 7:35.
Humes is a proven liar.
And on that basis, I find it hard to believe anything Humes said.

If you people believe that the casket arrived at Bethesda at 7:35pm, then it took 95 minutes to disembark from the plane and get to Bethesda.
So prove it.
Make sure you provide EVIDENCE and not your silly opinions.

[Christopher Strimbu]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:56:11 AM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 7:22:07 AM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:45:14 PM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
> > > >
> > > > Ta ta.
> > > PROMISE ?
> > Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?
> I've already posted the document from the ARRB saying that the casket was received at Bethesda at 1835 EST.

Where? I didn't see it.

> When Air Force One came to a stop on the tarmac at Andrews, Captain Swindall looked at his watch. It said 5:59pm.
> The time of arrival at Andrews of 6:00pm is consistent with that.
> I find the time of arrival at Bethesda of 6:35 to be entirely consistent with that timeline.
>
> I believe Humes lied about the time. His credibility in this case is questionable at best.
> He's the same "witness" who burned his autopsy notes as soon as Oswald was dead. His excuse that Kennedy's blood was on the notes is inexcuseable.
> He could have made a copy which would NOT have had blood on it. He chose instead to destroy the notes entirely.

He did copy the notes. He said this to the ARRB:

And when I noticed that these bloodstains were on this document that I had prepared, I said nobody's going to ever get these documents. I'm not going to keep them, and nobody else is ever going to get them.
So I copied them--and you probably have a copy in my longhand of what I wrote. It's made from the original. And I then burned the original notes in the fireplace of my family room to prevent them from ever falling into the hands of what I consider inappropriate people.
And there's been a lot of flack about this, that they're all part of a big conspiracy that I did this because I was involved in I don't
know what I was involved. Ludicrous. That is what I did.

> First, he missed the throat wound.

It was destroyed due to the tracheotomy at Parkland. How was Humes supposed to find it?

> Then, after he found out about the throat wound, he moved the back wound up to the base of the neck.

Bull. Commission Exhibit 903 proves the Commission put the wound in the upper back, not the neck. Also, normally most kooks blame Gerald Ford for moving the wound, not Dr. Humes.

See here: http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/gerald-ford-and-sbt.html

> Even the autopsy photos show the back wound below the top of the shoulders. Not on the neck.
> So I don't believe him when he says that the casket arrived at 7:35.
> Humes is a proven liar.

Humes did not lie about anything.

> And on that basis, I find it hard to believe anything Humes said.
>
> If you people believe that the casket arrived at Bethesda at 7:35pm, then it took 95 minutes to disembark from the plane and get to Bethesda.
> So prove it.
> Make sure you provide EVIDENCE and not your silly opinions.

We've provided evidence via the testimony of Humes and Boswell. See the thread "For David Von Pein".

[Gil Jesus]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:

> Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?

According to the news coverage, the plane stops at 1:40 in this unedited video and the ambulance leaves at around 7 minutes.
That means it took them a total of 5 minutes and 40 seconds to disembark and unload the casket and load it into the ambulance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_23UyIuEzK4

That means the casket was NOT delayed at the airport and the ambulance lef the airport a little after 6:05 pm.

Your witness claimed that it the casket arrived at 7:35 instead of 6:35.
Now you people have to show why it took 90 minutes to go from Andrews to Bethesda.

Make sure you post evidence, not opinion.

[Gil Jesus]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 10:05:35 AM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:56:11 AM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:

> > I've already posted the document from the ARRB saying that the casket was received at Bethesda at 1835 EST.
> Where? I didn't see it.

Well, then I guess if you didn't see it, then it doesn't exist.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=758#relPageId=5

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 06:56:10 -0700 (PDT), Gil Jesus
<gjjma...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 7:22:07 AM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:45:14 PM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
>>>>
>>>> Ta ta.
>>> PROMISE ?
>>
>> Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?
>
>I've already posted the document from the ARRB saying that the casket was received at Bethesda at 1835 EST.
>When Air Force One came to a stop on the tarmac at Andrews, Captain Swindall looked at his watch. It said 5:59pm.
>The time of arrival at Andrews of 6:00pm is consistent with that.

Indeed true. This *ONE* fact, cannot be explained by the kooks here.
The distance traveled from the plane to Bethesda was just 20.5 miles.

>I find the time of arrival at Bethesda of 6:35 to be entirely consistent with that timeline.

Indeed true. The tapes of the radio chatter also confirm the time at
1800.

>I believe Humes lied about the time. His credibility in this case is questionable at best.

While it's beyond any doubt that he lied, he may well have been
telling the truth here... he spoke of "receiving" the body... this
could have simply been the moving of the body from the other room to
the autopsy room. It was indeed "received" in the autopsy room around
that time.

However, Humes certainly had a reason to confuse the issue - he needed
to "erase" the time spent on the pre-autopsy autopsy.

> He's the same "witness" who burned his autopsy notes as soon as
>Oswald was dead. His excuse that Kennedy's blood was on the notes is
>inexcuseable.

This is what Tony Marsh tried to cover up by is completely UNSUPPORTED
claim that Humes burned the notes on Saturday.

I ran him out of this forum based on that one lie...

The *MOMENT* Oswald was killed, it became safe to destroy evidence.

> He could have made a copy which would NOT have had blood on it. He
> chose instead to destroy the notes entirely.
> First, he missed the throat wound.

As he was ordered to...

>Then, after he found out about the throat wound, he moved the back wound up to the base of the neck.
>Even the autopsy photos show the back wound below the top of the shoulders. Not on the neck.

The *EARLIEST* autopsy report put the back wound *below* the shoulder
blade, as I recall. I'll have to go back to the Executive session to
see where Rankin said that...

Ah... here it is:

From the Jan 27th Executive Session:
***************************************
Mr. Rankin. Then there is a great range of material in regard to the
wounds, and the autopsy and this point of exit or entrance of the
bullet in the front of the neck, and that all has to be developed much
more than we have at the present time.

We have an explanation there in the autopsy that probably a fragment
came out the front of the neck, but with the elevation other shot must
have come from, and the angle, it seems quite apparent now, since we
have the picture of where the bullet entered in the back, that the
bullet entered below the shoulder blade to the right of the backbone,
which is below the place where the picture shows the bullet came out
in the neckband of the shirt in front, and the bullet, according to
the autopsy didn't strike any bone at all, that particular bullet, and
go through.
*****************************************

>So I don't believe him when he says that the casket arrived at 7:35.

Keep in mind, he didn't actually say that. This is what the kooks in
this forum are arguing.

>Humes is a proven liar.

Yep. Absolutely! One thing he lied about, for example, was who was in
charge of the autopsy.

>And on that basis, I find it hard to believe anything Humes said.
>
>If you people believe that the casket arrived at Bethesda at 7:35pm, then it took 95 minutes to disembark from the plane and get to Bethesda.
>So prove it.
>Make sure you provide EVIDENCE and not your silly opinions.

Don't worry, this will *NEVER* be done.

Not a single kook in this forum has yet acknowledged evidence for the
casket arriving before 1935.

[Christopher Strimbu]

And I never said that. So thank you for giving me that document.

[David Drummond]

>
> However, Humes certainly had a reason to confuse the issue - he needed
> to "erase" the time spent on the pre-autopsy autopsy.
> > He's the same "witness" who burned his autopsy notes as soon as
> >Oswald was dead. His excuse that Kennedy's blood was on the notes is
> >inexcuseable.

LNers like to forget that his notes aren't the only ones. Seldom do they mention that Finck's original notes disappeared also. I think there was a fruit punch stain on the top corner of page 3.

[Christopher Strimbu]

How is that the least bit relevant to the discussion, Mr. Dumbmond?

[David Drummond]

>
> How is that the least bit relevant to the discussion, Mr. Dumbmond?

Well, I mean....I kind of requoted the exact part of Ben's response that was specific to the relevancy of autopsy notes? So...it's relevant in that way. Other than that, it's not wholly relevant to the topic of the time of the casket arrival. It's just more of an aside, you see. Not that it matters to you; anything pointing away from "Oswald alone" is irrelevant as far as you're concerned.

[Ben Holmes]

Chrissy can't. Huckster will run, Chickenshit will cry.

[David Drummond]

Also, you can call me "Dumbmond" all you like, since that is not my real name. I log onto this forum under a fake burner account, because at the time I was unfamiliar with this site and feared spam and other undesirable notifications going to my real email. I mean...you work at Google; you should know this.

[Ben Holmes]

I quite doubt that Chrissy is who she says she is either. In her
case, it's just as intentional... but for a different reason.

[Ben Holmes]

This kook thinks that disappearing evidence isn't relevant to
anything.

That says it all.

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 07:05:34 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
<christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:56:11 AM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-4, Hank Sienzant wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 7:22:07 AM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:45:14 PM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ta ta.
>>>> PROMISE ?
>>> Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?
>> I've already posted the document from the ARRB saying that the casket was received at Bethesda at 1835 EST.
>
>Where? I didn't see it.

You don't *want* to see it.

It's actually been cited a number of times now. Remember Boyajian?

>> When Air Force One came to a stop on the tarmac at Andrews, Captain Swindall looked at his watch. It said 5:59pm.
>> The time of arrival at Andrews of 6:00pm is consistent with that.
>> I find the time of arrival at Bethesda of 6:35 to be entirely consistent with that timeline.
>>
>> I believe Humes lied about the time. His credibility in this case is questionable at best.
>> He's the same "witness" who burned his autopsy notes as soon as Oswald was dead. His excuse that Kennedy's blood was on the notes is inexcuseable.
>> He could have made a copy which would NOT have had blood on it. He chose instead to destroy the notes entirely.
>
>He did copy the notes.

He *SAID* he copied his notes. It's not something you can prove is
true.

>> First, he missed the throat wound.
>

>It was destroyed due to thracheotomy at Parkland. How was Humes supposed to find it?

No, it was not "destroyed." The HSCA proved this.

>> Then, after he found out about the throat wound, he moved the back wound up to the base of the neck.

LFD.

>> Even the autopsy photos show the back wound below the top of the shoulders. Not on the neck.
>> So I don't believe him when he says that the casket arrived at 7:35.
>> Humes is a proven liar.
>
>Humes did not lie about anything.

You cannot support such a WACKY idea. This is merely your unsupported
opinion.

Watch folks, as Chrissy ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to support her wacky claim.

>> And on that basis, I find it hard to believe anything Humes said.
>>
>> If you people believe that the casket arrived at Bethesda at 7:35pm, then it took 95 minutes to disembark from the plane and get to Bethesda.
>> So prove it.
>> Make sure you provide EVIDENCE and not your silly opinions.
>

>We've provided evidence...

No, you haven't . You've PROVABLY lied by omission.

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 06:54:16 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

<christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:10:03 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A lonely, pathetic troll named Ben Holmes has been going around this
>>> forum asking everyone what time JFK's body arrived at the Bethesda
>>> morgue. He first asked this question to me on the thread titled "JFK
>>> Videos".
>>
>> And, as I've said a number of times, this question has been asked for
>> YEARS.
>>
>> With no response.
>>
>
>It's been answered since 2013.

You cannot cite ***ANY*** complete answer in this forum other than my
own.

>>> I answered his question ...
>>
>> No, you didn't. And you *KNOW* you didn't at this point in time.
>

>I did ...

You provably didn't.

I didn't ask what time *YOU* thought the body had been brought in.

You *STILL* refuse to acknowledge my correct answer.

>> Define "lying by omission."
>>
>
>https://www.aconsciousrethink.com/6477/lie-of-omission/#:~:text=Lying%20by%20omission%20is%20when,didn't%20tell%20you.%E2%80%9D
>
> Lying by omission is when a person leaves out important information
> or fails to correct a pre-existing misconception in order to hide the
> truth from others.

You've now *PROVEN* that you know that a lie can be told by omission.

Cite where you referenced the Boyajian memo.

Cite where you referenced numerous ARRB testimony.

Cite ANYTHING AT ALL that you referenced that support a time earlier
than 1935.

You lied, it's that simple... you've just cited the proof that you
lied.

>Now you need to prove that I indeed did lie.

Just did.

> Or you can take the easy way out and admit you don't have anything,
> in which case, I'll forgive you.

Proverbs 12:22.

>> But you won't...

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 06:42:51 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

<christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:10:08 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> And a final note for Holmes: if you can answer these questions, I
>>> will quit calling you troll and call you by your actual name, like you
>>> want me to do.
>>
>> This would be simply normal courtesy. Why would I have to bribe you
>> to show ordinary courtesy?

No answer... Chrissy simply ran away like the coward she is.

>>> If not, I will refer to you however I please, and will refuse to
>>> engage in any discussion with you.
>>
>> So you're offering to be Steven.
>>
>> Problem is, you can't convince anyone this way.
>>
>> People will wonder why you can't refute what I point out.

Dead silence...

>>>So answer these questions (no snipping or dodging this time):
>>
>> I will do so just in order to prove you a liar. I quite expect,
>> before the year is out, that you'll prove that you lied in this post.
>>
>>> 1. What time do you think JFK's body arrived at Bethesda? Be sure to
>>> back your claims with citations and evidence.
>>
>> The EARLIEST and DOCUMENTED evidence is for 1835. You're already
>> aware of it. And it's already been cited. Here it is again:
>> https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md236/html/md236_0005a.htm
>>
>> Dennis David, in his ARRB testimony, put it at 1845, quite consistent
>> with Boyajian.
>> https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708
>>
>> Ditto with Edward Reed, ARRB testimony... who put it at 1830.
>> https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=794
>>
>> As I've stated, there were THREE documented entry times of JFK's body,
>> 1835, 1917, 1935 (in two separate caskets.)
>>
>> Now, why do I settle on the earliest? Because it easily explains the
>> later "entries," but it doesn't work the other way around. If you
>> truly believe that the casket didn't arrive until shortly before 8,
>> then you got a lot of 'splainin to do.
>>
>> (But you won't.)

And didn't.

>> And since the plane landed at 1800, 1835 works far better than an hour
>> and a half *later*.
>>
>> David Powers claimed:"The trip [from Andrews AFB to Bethesda Naval
>> Hospital] took about 15 minutes; I remember going very quickly and
>> with an escort" (THE DAY JFK DIED, p. 34).
>>
>> From Andrews to Bethesda is just 20 miles.
>>
>> You got some 'splainin to do.
>>
>> (But you won't.)

And didn't.

>> Douglas Horne has documented *SEPARATE* casket teams who brought the
>> casket in... as well as having demonstrated that there was *NO-ONE*
>> who was with the body at all times. See his five volume set of books.
>>
>> You won't refute *ANY* of this... nor, I predict, will you even try.
>>
>> And you *CLEARLY* lied by omission - no-one would know OTHER THAN BY
>> READING -MY- posts, that there was any evidence other than the Humes
>> testimony.
>>
>> So you're a proven liar.

Notice folks, that Chrissy refuses to argue the point. Chrissy's a
proven liar. So too are all the rest of the believers who refused to
answer this question I raised YEARS ago.

>>>2. Why did you call me and Von Pein liars when we specifically quoted the testimony of the autopsy doctors?
>>
>> https://psychopathsinlife.com/omission-lying/
>>
>> How many times has Mark Lane been accused of lying by omission? Why
>> do you think **YOU** are safe from the same charge, when it's so
>> easily proven?
>>
>> Do you think that only *critics* can be charged with lying by
>> omission?

Dead silence... Chrissy is TERRIFIED of evidence & logic.

>>>3. Why do you think this question is the least bit important?
>>
>> Because, YEARS ago, when I first started asking it, Chuckles was
>> complaining that there couldn't have been a pre-autopsy autopsy.
>>
>> He never did answer... and hasn't posted for some time now...
>>
>> It *IS* amusing that believers always whine about the importance of
>> evidence that clearly *IS* important.
>>
>> **YOU** need to explain nearly an hour and a half of just sitting
>> around doing nothing.
>>
>> I don't.
>>
>> (You won't, however...)

And as predicted, you didn't.

Such AMAZING cowardice!!!

>>>If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
>>
>> I've answered fully, completely, and very credibly. You, on the other
>> hand, are desperately seeking a reason to run away and stop
>> responding.
>>
>> You don't *need* a reason, just do it! Cowardice doesn't need a
>> reason. If you want to run away, you'd simply be joining a lonnnnng
>> list of other believers, such as Tony Marsh, Johnny McAss, and Davy
>> Von Peiny ... to name just a few.

Ah... it seems that Chrissy prefers to stick around, and simply show
her cowardice instead...

>>>Ta ta.
>
>Well finally Ben!

The question was directed at believers, and has **NEVER** been
honestly answered.

> I mean, it took you a little while, but you finally came around.

You *STILL* haven't answered the question, nor publicly acknowledged
that my posted evidence **IS** evidence.

And honest lurkers know that I've oft made the claim, AND PROVEN THE
CLAIM, that I can fully and completely answer any question about the
evidence in this case, with citation.

Something that **NO** believer can do. You can't do it (as proven
here), Huckster can't do it, Davy Von Penis can't do it, Chickenshit
CERTAINLY can't do it, and Steven doesn't know anything in this case.

> Now we can discuss this evidence.

No... "we" cannot. You'll run.

Just as you did right here.

[Christopher Strimbu]

I never claimed to work at Google, Dumbmond. Try again.

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:05:22 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

<christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:11:32 AM UTC-4, David Drummond wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 10:39:06 AM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 10:38:06 AM UTC-4, David Drummond wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> However, Humes certainly had a reason to confuse the issue - he needed
>>>>> to "erase" the time spent on the pre-autopsy autopsy.
>>>>>> He's the same "witness" who burned his autopsy notes as soon as
>>>>>>Oswald was dead. His excuse that Kennedy's blood was on the notes is
>>>>>>inexcuseable.
>>>> LNers like to forget that his notes aren't the only ones. Seldom do they mention that Finck's original notes disappeared also. I think there was a fruit punch stain on the top corner of page 3.
>>> How is that the least bit relevant to the discussion, Mr. Dumbmond?
>> Also, you can call me "Dumbmond" all you like, since that is not my real name. I log onto this forum under a fake burner account, because at the time I was unfamiliar with this site and feared spam and other undesirable notifications going to my real email. I mean...you work at Google; you should know this.
>
>I never claimed to work at Google, Dumbmond. Try again.

My guess would be Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Chrissy's clearly not smart enough to work at Google.

[Christopher Strimbu]

Nah. KFC has had a giant fall from grace. If I did work at KFC, it would be in Japan.
(It's sad when you brand is more well liked and popular in a foreign country then the state it's named after)

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:15:47 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

Not a refutation... simply a non-credible denial.

What does the EVIDENCE say is the time that JFK's body arrived at
Bethesda?

[Christopher Strimbu]

What evidence is considered "credible" in your opinion?

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:38:04 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

BZZZZT! Nope... Fail.

I didn't say anything at all about credibility. That's simply a
logical fallacy on your part.

List relevant evidence that pertains to the time JFK's body arrived at
Bethesda.

Or run again... who cares?

[Christopher Strimbu]

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/g2RyVQ25Uxc/m/ET0mjj8JBgAJ

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:43:59 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

You're lying again, Chrissy.

And you *KNOW* you're lying - because you've proven an understanding
of lying by omission.

When all you have are lies, you've merely shown to the world that
*YOU* know you lost.

Now, list relevant evidence that pertains to the time JFK's body
arrived at Bethesda.

Or lie again... who cares?

[Christopher Strimbu]

Empty assertions. Now, you're going to provide proof I lied, since that's what you said. I cited the testimony of the autopsy doctors. I did not lie.

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:50:49 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

Proven assertions... looks like you chose to lie again.

> Now, you're going to provide proof I lied, since that's what you
> said. I cited the testimony of the autopsy doctors. I did not lie.

You've already shown you know what a lie of omission is.

Lie again, Chrissy!!

Now, list relevant evidence that pertains to the time JFK's body
arrived at Bethesda.

Try not to lie again...

[Bud]

Why don`t you?

Or are you going to continue to lie by omission?

[Hank Sienzant]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:10:08 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > And a final note for Holmes: if you can answer these questions, I
> > will quit calling you troll and call you by your actual name, like you
> > want me to do.
> This would be simply normal courtesy. Why would I have to bribe you
> to show ordinary courtesy?

> > If not, I will refer to you however I please, and will refuse to
> > engage in any discussion with you.
> So you're offering to be Steven.

No, he’s offering to be Ben Holmes. You don’t engage in a discussion, you engage in a diatribe, and you refer to others however you please.

>
> Problem is, you can't convince anyone this way.

Yet that is exactly how you deal with people’s points, and you seem damn proud of it. You delete them and then try to redirect the discussion to something else.

We saw you do literally *thousands* of times over the years, the most recent being right here.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/lBxWczM8KhQ/m/XntIuwL5AQAJ

People can read. They can see Christopher made a simple request, and you responded with a falsehood about me. I called you on it, and established you started calling me Huckster for no reason at all.

Since then, you’ve been deleting my points in that thread and trying desperately to change the subject.

>
> People will wonder why you can't refute what I point out.

People are wondering that about you. Go ahead, start here:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/lBxWczM8KhQ/m/XntIuwL5AQAJ

Or run as you have been doing.

> >So answer these questions (no snipping or dodging this time):
> I will do so just in order to prove you a liar. I quite expect,
> before the year is out, that you'll prove that you lied in this post.
> > 1. What time do you think JFK's body arrived at Bethesda? Be sure to
> > back your claims with citations and evidence.
> The EARLIEST and DOCUMENTED evidence is for 1835. You're already
> aware of it. And it's already been cited. Here it is again:
> https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md236/html/md236_0005a.htm

It says “approximately”, and it was written four days later, from memory.
So 18:35 is one time.

>
> Dennis David, in his ARRB testimony, put it at 1845, quite consistent
> with Boyajian.
> https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708

So which is correct, and why?
18:45 and 18:35 are two times.

>
> Ditto with Edward Reed, ARRB testimony... who put it at 1830.
> https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=794

That makes three different times - 18:30, 18:35, and 18:45.

>
> As I've stated, there were THREE documented entry times of JFK's body,
> 1835, 1917, 1935 (in two separate caskets.)

So now we’re up to five times - 18:30, 18:35, 18:45, 19:17, and 19:35.

Yep. People are human, and make mistakes. You need to learn to deal with the fact that not every mistake is evidence of the conspiracy you believe in.

>
> Now, why do I settle on the earliest? Because it easily explains the
> later "entries," but it doesn't work the other way around.

Sure it does. One is correct. It doesn’t have to be the earliest. None can be correct. It could be 19:18, for example, because a watch was slow by a minute.

> If you
> truly believe that the casket didn't arrive until shortly before 8,
> then you got a lot of 'splainin to do.
>
> (But you won't.)

If you truly believe the casket arrived at 6:35, you have to explain the other four. And no fair calling everyone else a liar, that’s not an explanation, that’s an excuse for eliminating the times you do not favor.

>
> And since the plane landed at 1800, 1835 works far better than an hour
> and a half *later*.
>
> David Powers claimed:"The trip [from Andrews AFB to Bethesda Naval
> Hospital] took about 15 minutes; I remember going very quickly and
> with an escort" (THE DAY JFK DIED, p. 34).
>
> From Andrews to Bethesda is just 20 miles.

So they drove 20 miles in fifteen minutes. That’s 80 mph *on average*. What was the hurry? Kennedy was still dead either way.

It’s an estimate from a recollection - that’s established by the “about”. Time appears to go faster or slower depending on perception. I was surprised to find it was nearly 3pm today because I was engrossed in something important to me. I can understand Powers being deep in thought, and believing only about 15 minutes elapsed when it actually longer.

>
> You got some 'splainin to do.
>
> (But you won't.)
>

> Douglas Horne has documented *SEPARATE* casket teams who brought the
> casket in... as well as having demonstrated that there was *NO-ONE*
> who was with the body at all times. See his five volume set of books.

No, I don’t put money into the pockets of conspiracy authors who would like nothing more than to separate a fool from his money, as the saying goes. I have over 500 books on the assassination, 95% of them conspiracy oriented. If you don’t care to quote this so-called proof of multiple casket teams, I don’t see any need to rebut it.

Your assertion, your burden of proof, as that saying goes.

Would you accept “The Warren Commission dealt with the assassination in exhaustive detail, and published their conclusions and 26 volumes of supporting testimony and evidence, and found no evidence of conspiracy”?

If not, why would you expect anyone here to be convinced by your assertion that the proof is elsewhere, especially since you seldom cite for your claims in any case?

>
> You won't refute *ANY* of this... nor, I predict, will you even try.

What’s to refute? You yourself admit to five different times estimates, and allege two different caskets.

Even if the two-casket theory is correct, you still have five different times for two entries.

>
> And you *CLEARLY* lied by omission - no-one would know OTHER THAN BY
> READING -MY- posts, that there was any evidence other than the Humes
> testimony.

You didn’t ask for all the times. You asked for THE time. And then responded with FIVE times. How unintentionally funny is that?

>
> So you're a proven liar.

You throw that word around a lot. You don’t appear to know what it means.


> >2. Why did you call me and Von Pein liars when we specifically quoted the testimony of the autopsy doctors?
> https://psychopathsinlife.com/omission-lying/

So what do you call it when you delete all my points and ignore them? Is that lying by omission, and if it is, why would you be immune from this charge?

Isn’t this a prime example of the kettle calling the pot black?

>
> How many times has Mark Lane been accused of lying by omission?

Hundreds, if not thousands. I’ve documented numerous occasions (dozens!) where Lane left out important information relevant to the claims he was making, thanks to your series. Every time I did that, you tried to insist that I was limited to the information Lane mentioned, which was and remains a ludicrous assertion.

> Why
> do you think **YOU** are safe from the same charge, when it's so
> easily proven?

Was it proven?

>
> Do you think that only *critics* can be charged with lying by
> omission?

Do you think that if you ask for THE time, and one is provided, that is insufficient?

You yourself can’t answer the question as asked. You provided multiple (5!) times,

> >3. Why do you think this question is the least bit important?
> Because, YEARS ago, when I first started asking it, Chuckles was
> complaining that there couldn't have been a pre-autopsy autopsy.

Not an answer. It appears the correct answer is “Because I need to leave sufficient time for a pre-autopsy alteration of wounds that would fool a first-year med student, let alone three experienced pathologists”. Don’t try to blame your beliefs on somebody else. Support your beliefs. You NEED an earlier time of arrival to allow more time fo4 the unproven

>
> He never did answer... and hasn't posted for some time now...


>
> It *IS* amusing that believers always whine about the importance of
> evidence that clearly *IS* important.
>
> **YOU** need to explain nearly an hour and a half of just sitting
> around doing nothing.
>
> I don't.
>
> (You won't, however...)

> >If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
> I've answered fully, completely, and very credibly. You, on the other
> hand, are desperately seeking a reason to run away and stop
> responding.
>
> You don't *need* a reason, just do it! Cowardice doesn't need a
> reason. If you want to run away, you'd simply be joining a lonnnnng
> list of other believers, such as Tony Marsh, Johnny McAss, and Davy
> Von Peiny ... to name just a few.
>

> >Ta ta.

[Hank Sienzant]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:14:42 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 05:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
> <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 7:22:07 AM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:45:14 PM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>

> >>> If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
> >>>

> >>> Ta ta.
> >> PROMISE ?
> >
> >Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?

> This is, of course, Huckster's burden. He refuses to honestly answer.

It’s nobody’s burden but yours, Ben. I do not have to disprove your assertions. You have to prove them.


>
> What Huckster is trying to do, of course, is to see if Gil will answer
> in a way that is any different WHATSOEVER from my answer, so he can
> whine about it.

Really? Where did you graduate mind-reading school, Ben, and what was your grade point average there?

What you’re doing of course is avoiding my point, that conspiracism is like the one true church — there is so many of them.

And no two conspiracists typically agree on anything. Each CT has their own belief system. If the facts coalesced around a conspiracy, you would think that after nearly 60 years, CTs would be able to agree on more than “there was a conspiracy”.


>
> But Huckster won't point out that Chrissy, Chickenshit, Davey Von
> Peiny all lied by omission... and of course, this is EXACTLY what
> Huckster is doing right now.
>
> He knows I'm pointing out evidence, and he just HATES that.

You cited five different times for the casket arrival. Which of those is evidence and which is not?

[David Healy]

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 6:45:14 PM UTC-7, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
> A lonely, pathetic troll named Ben Holmes has been going around this forum asking everyone what time JFK's body arrived at the Bethesda morgue. He first asked this question to me on the thread titled "JFK Videos". I answered his question with this excerpt from Humes Warren Commission testimony:
>
> Mr. SPECTER - What time did the autopsy start approximately?
> Commander HUMES - The president's body was received at 25 minutes before 8, and the autopsy began at approximately 8 p.m. on that evening.
>
> Troll Holmes, not liking the answer, whined that I lied. Of course, when I posted Humes testimony, he did the usual and snipped it.
>
> He then asks David Von Pein for the answer. He answers similarly to me. Holmes doesn't like it, and snips his way through it.
>
> This shows how Ben Holmes is either an ignorant fool, a lying coward, or a troll wasting everyone's time. I'm going with the last option.
>
> And a final note for Holmes: if you can answer these questions, I will quit calling you troll and call you by your actual name, like you want me to do. If not, I will refer to you however I please, and will refuse to engage in any discussion with you.

>
> So answer these questions (no snipping or dodging this time):
>

> 1. What time do you think JFK's body arrived at Bethesda? Be sure to back your claims with citations and evidence.
>

> 2. Why did you call me and Von Pein liars when we specifically quoted the testimony of the autopsy doctors?
>

> 3. Why do you think this question is the least bit important?
>

> If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
>
> Ta ta.

so, now that your demise is settled -- what time did JFK's body get to Bethesda?

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 15:58:16 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:10:08 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> And a final note for Holmes: if you can answer these questions, I
>>> will quit calling you troll and call you by your actual name, like you
>>> want me to do.
>> This would be simply normal courtesy. Why would I have to bribe you
>> to show ordinary courtesy?
>>> If not, I will refer to you however I please, and will refuse to
>>> engage in any discussion with you.
>> So you're offering to be Steven.
>
>No, he’s offering to be Ben Holmes.

Sorry, that requires intelligence, knowledge of the case, and courage
to explain the evidence.

She has none of these qualities.

Nor does Steven.

>> Problem is, you can't convince anyone this way.
>

>Yet...

Yet *what*???

I stated an absolute truth. You cannot convince people with lies and
cowardice...

>> People will wonder why you can't refute what I point out.
>

>People are wondering that about me.

Yes indeed.

Particularly about Mark Lane #214

>>>So answer these questions (no snipping or dodging this time):
>>
>> I will do so just in order to prove you a liar. I quite expect,
>> before the year is out, that you'll prove that you lied in this post.

Watch folks... I've predicted it!

>>> 1. What time do you think JFK's body arrived at Bethesda? Be sure to
>>> back your claims with citations and evidence.
>>
>> The EARLIEST and DOCUMENTED evidence is for 1835. You're already
>> aware of it. And it's already been cited. Here it is again:
>> https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md236/html/md236_0005a.htm
>
>It says “approximately”, and it was written four days later, from memory.
> So 18:35 is one time.

Notice folks, that Huckster was unable to refute what I stated.

Notice also, THAT NO BELIEVER DARED TO

>> Dennis David, in his ARRB testimony, put it at 1845, quite consistent
>> with Boyajian.
>> https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708
>
>So which is correct, and why?
>18:45 and 18:35 are two times.

Are they?

Here we see Huckster demanding impossible eyewitness accuracy that
when it comes to 1:06, he doesn't believe.

>> Ditto with Edward Reed, ARRB testimony... who put it at 1830.
>> https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=794
>
>That makes three different times - 18:30, 18:35, and 18:45.

Hypocrisy shown above...

Also, of course, a logical fallacy.

>> As I've stated, there were THREE documented entry times of JFK's body,
>> 1835, 1917, 1935 (in two separate caskets.)

LFD.

>> Now, why do I settle on the earliest? Because it easily explains the
>> later "entries," but it doesn't work the other way around.
>
>Sure it does.

No moron, it doesn't.

Clearly folks, we have another believer in the 15mph casket ride.

And Huckster can't deny it.

>> If you
>> truly believe that the casket didn't arrive until shortly before 8,
>> then you got a lot of 'splainin to do.
>>
>> (But you won't.)
>

>If you ...

It's not *MY* explanation to make, coward!

>> And since the plane landed at 1800, 1835 works far better than an hour
>> and a half *later*.
>>
>> David Powers claimed:"The trip [from Andrews AFB to Bethesda Naval
>> Hospital] took about 15 minutes; I remember going very quickly and
>> with an escort" (THE DAY JFK DIED, p. 34).
>>
>> From Andrews to Bethesda is just 20 miles.
>
> So they drove 20 miles in fifteen minutes. That’s 80 mph *on
> average*. What was the hurry? Kennedy was still dead either way.

What you agree with now undercuts your beliefs, and supports what I
stated.

Stupid, aren't you?

>It’s an estimate...

As is most everything. This isn't a refutation.

>> You got some 'splainin to do.
>>
>> (But you won't.)

And Huckster refused to do so... Isn't it amazing how often I
successfully predict the cowardice of these cowards?

>> Douglas Horne has documented *SEPARATE* casket teams who brought the
>> casket in... as well as having demonstrated that there was *NO-ONE*
>> who was with the body at all times. See his five volume set of books.
>

>No...

Yes.

Watch folks, as Huckster is COMPLETELY unable to address these facts
using citations from the WC, Clark Panel, or HSCA.

>> You won't refute *ANY* of this... nor, I predict, will you even try.
>
>What’s to refute?

Remember folks, I predicted it!

(Of course, it's easy to predict cowardice from cowards!)

>> And you *CLEARLY* lied by omission - no-one would know OTHER THAN BY
>> READING -MY- posts, that there was any evidence other than the Humes
>> testimony.
>

>You didn’t ask...

You're lying again, Huckster.

>> So you're a proven liar.
>
>You throw that word around a lot.

That's because I know what the word means... Believers provably lie
alot.

>>>2. Why did you call me and Von Pein liars when we specifically quoted the testimony of the autopsy doctors?
>> https://psychopathsinlife.com/omission-lying/
>

>So what...

Tut tut tut, Huckster... you've been spanked. Go to your corner and
cry.

>> How many times has Mark Lane been accused of lying by omission?
>
>Hundreds, if not thousands.

So you understand the concept, just as Chrissy proved herself to
understand.

If you were honest, you'd acknowledge that EVERY SINGLE BELIEVER who's
addressed my question lied by omission.

And several of them did it multiple times AFTER this was pointed out.

>> Why do you think **YOU** are safe from the same charge, when it's so
>> easily proven?
>
>Was it proven?

Of course... and you can't refute it.

It would be so EASY to refute... simply QUOTE the believer who cited
Boyajian... or any of the other witnesses I referred to. (Or even
others that I've not mentioned yet.)

You're a liar, Huckster.

>> Do you think that only *critics* can be charged with lying by
>> omission?
>

>Do you think that if you ask for THE time...

There you go molesting your grandmother now.

Do you really feel that perversion is your best solution?

>>>3. Why do you think this question is the least bit important?
>>
>> Because, YEARS ago, when I first started asking it, Chuckles was
>> complaining that there couldn't have been a pre-autopsy autopsy.
>
>Not an answer.

It is PRECISELY the correct, credible, and historical answer.

And you can't refute it. Because *I* am the world's authority on what
I think.

>> He never did answer... and hasn't posted for some time now...
>>
>> It *IS* amusing that believers always whine about the importance of
>> evidence that clearly *IS* important.
>>
>> **YOU** need to explain nearly an hour and a half of just sitting
>> around doing nothing.
>>
>> I don't.
>>
>> (You won't, however...)

And Huckster simply ran again.

He can total time as well as anyone, he knows full well the times
involved, yet he's willing to simply show his cowardice by refusing to
explain the KNOWN evidence.

>>>If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
>>
>> I've answered fully, completely, and very credibly. You, on the other
>> hand, are desperately seeking a reason to run away and stop
>> responding.

Huckster had nothing to say. He knows that I did indeed respond in a
full and complete way. Not a **SINGLE* believer has matched, or even
come CLOSE to the detail and evidence I posted here.

NOT ONE!!!

Certainly not Huckster, even though he knows all of this and more...

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:09:19 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant

<hsie...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:14:42 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 05:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Hank Sienzant
>> <hsie...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 7:22:07 AM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:45:14 PM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ta ta.
>>>> PROMISE ?
>>>
>>>Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?
>> This is, of course, Huckster's burden. He refuses to honestly answer.
>

>It’s nobody’s burden...

You're lying again, Huckster.

>> What Huckster is trying to do, of course, is to see if Gil will answer
>> in a way that is any different WHATSOEVER from my answer, so he can
>> whine about it.
>
>Really?

Yep.

>> But Huckster won't point out that Chrissy, Chickenshit, Davey Von
>> Peiny all lied by omission... and of course, this is EXACTLY what
>> Huckster is doing right now.
>>
>> He knows I'm pointing out evidence, and he just HATES that.
>

>You cited ...

Indeed I did.

You're running...

Indeed you are.

[Christopher Strimbu]

I posted my answer Healy.

[Ben Holmes]

You continue to post a lie.

And you've cited for that fact.

[Christopher Strimbu]

You mean Dr. Humes' lie. That's hs estimate, not mine.

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:53:04 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

If you try to put words in my mouth I never said, stand ready for the
consequences.

You've posted a lie, and you've CITED THE PROOF that you know it's a
lie.

You're a liar.

It's that simple.

[David Drummond]

>
> > >
> > >Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/we-S38tIxr0/m/CHwAWGPQBwAJ

Gil provides a straightforward answer, which I was hoping would prompt a rebuttal from Henry. More fool me to expect one from such a coward. I guess I am firmly in the "disappointed but unsurprised" camp.

[Christopher Strimbu]

Dumbmond feels the need to chime in with his worthless opinion. The only reason his brain exists (assuming he has one) is to store all the garbage he's been fed.

[David Drummond]

> > > > >
> > > > >Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/we-S38tIxr0/m/CHwAWGPQBwAJ
> >
> > Gil provides a straightforward answer, which I was hoping would prompt a rebuttal from Henry. More fool me to expect one from such a coward. I guess I am firmly in the "disappointed but unsurprised" camp.
> Dumbmond feels the need to chime in with his worthless opinion. The only reason his brain exists (assuming he has one) is to store all the garbage he's been fed.

Hmm, well I don't think anything I said there qualifies as "opinion" (maybe grab that trusty dictionary you were so fond of waving around last week). But I'd like to thank you for responding to my post anyway, worthless as your response was, since every response bumps this thread to the top and therefore makes it harder for Henry to ignore.

[David Drummond]

>
> And no two conspiracists typically agree on anything. Each CT has their own belief system.

Such as believing that the jet effect is a thing...and then not believing it....then believing it again.

Wait, that's you people.

[Ben Holmes]

My grandkids would be familiar with Chrissy's whining on the
playground. It's the same sort of insults they use.

On the other hand, when we critics point out cowardice, it's your
ACTIONS that we refer to... when we point out your lying, again, it's
your ACTIONS that we refer to.

Seems the adults are teaching the kids here...

[Ben Holmes]

I enjoy pointing out their cowardice on every possible opportunity.

It really does tell the tale.

[Christopher Strimbu]

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 9:13:46 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:40:14 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 8:10:03 PM UTC-4, David Drummond wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?
> >> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/we-S38tIxr0/m/CHwAWGPQBwAJ
> >>
> >> Gil provides a straightforward answer, which I was hoping would prompt a rebuttal from Henry. More fool me to expect one from such a coward. I guess I am firmly in the "disappointed but unsurprised" camp.
> >
> > Dumbmond feels the need to chime in with his worthless opinion. The
> > only reason his brain exists (assuming he has one) is to store all the
> > garbage he's been fed.

> My grandkids...

You don't have any.

[Ben Holmes]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 06:34:23 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

<christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 9:13:46 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:40:14 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 8:10:03 PM UTC-4, David Drummond wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gil, what time did JFK’s body arrive at Bethesda, and how much importance do you see in that?
>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/we-S38tIxr0/m/CHwAWGPQBwAJ
>>>>
>>>> Gil provides a straightforward answer, which I was hoping would prompt a rebuttal from Henry. More fool me to expect one from such a coward. I guess I am firmly in the "disappointed but unsurprised" camp.
>>>
>>> Dumbmond feels the need to chime in with his worthless opinion. The
>>> only reason his brain exists (assuming he has one) is to store all the
>>> garbage he's been fed.
>> My grandkids...
>
>You don't have any.

Next we'll hear the "My dad can beat up your dad..."

[Christopher Strimbu]

Assuming you had one.

[Ben Holmes]

Top post: Chrissy ran...

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 08:37:32 -0700, Ben Holmes
<Ad...@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 06:54:16 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
><christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:10:03 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:

>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A lonely, pathetic troll named Ben Holmes has been going around this
>>>> forum asking everyone what time JFK's body arrived at the Bethesda
>>>> morgue. He first asked this question to me on the thread titled "JFK
>>>> Videos".
>>>

>>> And, as I've said a number of times, this question has been asked for
>>> YEARS.
>>>
>>> With no response.
>>>
>>
>>It's been answered since 2013.
>
>You cannot cite ***ANY*** complete answer in this forum other than my
>own.
>
>>>> I answered his question ...
>>>
>>> No, you didn't. And you *KNOW* you didn't at this point in time.
>>
>>I did ...
>
>You provably didn't.
>
>I didn't ask what time *YOU* thought the body had been brought in.
>
>You *STILL* refuse to acknowledge my correct answer.
>
>>> Define "lying by omission."
>>>
>>
>>https://www.aconsciousrethink.com/6477/lie-of-omission/#:~:text=Lying%20by%20omission%20is%20when,didn't%20tell%20you.%E2%80%9D
>>
>> Lying by omission is when a person leaves out important information
>> or fails to correct a pre-existing misconception in order to hide the
>> truth from others.
>
>You've now *PROVEN* that you know that a lie can be told by omission.
>
>Cite where you referenced the Boyajian memo.
>
>Cite where you referenced numerous ARRB testimony.
>
>Cite ANYTHING AT ALL that you referenced that support a time earlier
>than 1935.
>
>You lied, it's that simple... you've just cited the proof that you
>lied.
>
>>Now you need to prove that I indeed did lie.
>
>Just did.
>
>> Or you can take the easy way out and admit you don't have anything,
>> in which case, I'll forgive you.
>
>Proverbs 12:22.
>
>>> But you won't...

[Ben Holmes]

Top post: Chrissy ran ...

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 08:37:35 -0700, Ben Holmes
<Ad...@ConspiracyJFKForum.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 06:42:51 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
><christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:10:08 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 18:45:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>>> And a final note for Holmes: if you can answer these questions, I
>>>> will quit calling you troll and call you by your actual name, like you
>>>> want me to do.
>>>

>>> This would be simply normal courtesy. Why would I have to bribe you
>>> to show ordinary courtesy?
>

>No answer... Chrissy simply ran away like the coward she is.

>
>>>> If not, I will refer to you however I please, and will refuse to
>>>> engage in any discussion with you.
>>>

>>> So you're offering to be Steven.
>>>

>>> Problem is, you can't convince anyone this way.
>>>

>>> People will wonder why you can't refute what I point out.
>

>Dead silence...

>
>>>>So answer these questions (no snipping or dodging this time):
>>>

>>> I will do so just in order to prove you a liar. I quite expect,
>>> before the year is out, that you'll prove that you lied in this post.
>>>

>>>> 1. What time do you think JFK's body arrived at Bethesda? Be sure to
>>>> back your claims with citations and evidence.
>>>

>>> The EARLIEST and DOCUMENTED evidence is for 1835. You're already
>>> aware of it. And it's already been cited. Here it is again:
>>> https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md236/html/md236_0005a.htm
>>>

>>> Dennis David, in his ARRB testimony, put it at 1845, quite consistent
>>> with Boyajian.
>>> https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708
>>>

>>> Ditto with Edward Reed, ARRB testimony... who put it at 1830.
>>> https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=794
>>>

>>> As I've stated, there were THREE documented entry times of JFK's body,
>>> 1835, 1917, 1935 (in two separate caskets.)
>>>

>>> Now, why do I settle on the earliest? Because it easily explains the

>>> later "entries," but it doesn't work the other way around. If you

>>> truly believe that the casket didn't arrive until shortly before 8,
>>> then you got a lot of 'splainin to do.
>>>
>>> (But you won't.)
>

>And didn't.

>
>>> And since the plane landed at 1800, 1835 works far better than an hour
>>> and a half *later*.
>>>
>>> David Powers claimed:"The trip [from Andrews AFB to Bethesda Naval
>>> Hospital] took about 15 minutes; I remember going very quickly and
>>> with an escort" (THE DAY JFK DIED, p. 34).
>>>
>>> From Andrews to Bethesda is just 20 miles.
>>>

>>> You got some 'splainin to do.
>>>
>>> (But you won't.)
>

>And didn't.

>
>>> Douglas Horne has documented *SEPARATE* casket teams who brought the
>>> casket in... as well as having demonstrated that there was *NO-ONE*
>>> who was with the body at all times. See his five volume set of books.
>>>

>>> You won't refute *ANY* of this... nor, I predict, will you even try.
>>>

>>> And you *CLEARLY* lied by omission - no-one would know OTHER THAN BY
>>> READING -MY- posts, that there was any evidence other than the Humes
>>> testimony.
>>>

>>> So you're a proven liar.
>

>Notice folks, that Chrissy refuses to argue the point. Chrissy's a
>proven liar. So too are all the rest of the believers who refused to
>answer this question I raised YEARS ago.

>
>>>>2. Why did you call me and Von Pein liars when we specifically quoted the testimony of the autopsy doctors?
>>>

>>> https://psychopathsinlife.com/omission-lying/
>>>
>>> How many times has Mark Lane been accused of lying by omission? Why

>>> do you think **YOU** are safe from the same charge, when it's so
>>> easily proven?
>>>

>>> Do you think that only *critics* can be charged with lying by
>>> omission?
>

>Dead silence... Chrissy is TERRIFIED of evidence & logic.

>
>>>>3. Why do you think this question is the least bit important?
>>>

>>> Because, YEARS ago, when I first started asking it, Chuckles was
>>> complaining that there couldn't have been a pre-autopsy autopsy.
>>>

>>> He never did answer... and hasn't posted for some time now...
>>>
>>> It *IS* amusing that believers always whine about the importance of
>>> evidence that clearly *IS* important.
>>>
>>> **YOU** need to explain nearly an hour and a half of just sitting
>>> around doing nothing.
>>>
>>> I don't.
>>>
>>> (You won't, however...)
>

>And as predicted, you didn't.
>
>Such AMAZING cowardice!!!

>
>>>>If you cannot answer these questions, this will be the last you will hear from me.
>>>

>>> I've answered fully, completely, and very credibly. You, on the other
>>> hand, are desperately seeking a reason to run away and stop
>>> responding.
>>>

>>> You don't *need* a reason, just do it! Cowardice doesn't need a
>>> reason. If you want to run away, you'd simply be joining a lonnnnng
>>> list of other believers, such as Tony Marsh, Johnny McAss, and Davy
>>> Von Peiny ... to name just a few.
>

>Ah... it seems that Chrissy prefers to stick around, and simply show
>her cowardice instead...
>
>>>>Ta ta.
>>
>>Well finally Ben!
>
>The question was directed at believers, and has **NEVER** been
>honestly answered.
>
>> I mean, it took you a little while, but you finally came around.
>
>You *STILL* haven't answered the question, nor publicly acknowledged
>that my posted evidence **IS** evidence.
>
>And honest lurkers know that I've oft made the claim, AND PROVEN THE
>CLAIM, that I can fully and completely answer any question about the
>evidence in this case, with citation.
>
>Something that **NO** believer can do. You can't do it (as proven
>here), Huckster can't do it, Davy Von Penis can't do it, Chickenshit
>CERTAINLY can't do it, and Steven doesn't know anything in this case.
>
>> Now we can discuss this evidence.
>
>No... "we" cannot. You'll run.
>
>Just as you did right here.

[Ben Holmes]

Top post: Chriss had nothing to say...

[Ben Holmes]

Top post: Chrissy can't do it...

[Ben Holmes]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 06:52:06 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu

Yank a troll's chain, he'll dance.

[Gil Jesus]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 9:40:16 PM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Dumbmond feels the need to chime in with his worthless opinion. The only reason his brain exists (assuming he has one) is to store all the garbage he's been fed.

Lone Nut stupidity # 1: attacking the messenger.

Thank You for proving my point. AGAIN.

[Ben Holmes]

Amusingly, EVERY SINGLE BELIEVER is guilty of doing this. They can't
seem to separate the EVIDENCE from the person who posts it.

Mark Lane is a perfect example - they constantly deride him as a
"liar" - yet when his actual words are posted here, they can't seem to
find anything he's said, then CITE THE EVIDENCE THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT
HE SAID.

Ditto for you, me, and other critics here in this forum.

[Christopher Strimbu]

Gil only wants confirmation bias. What a clown.

[Ben Holmes]

When you start with ad hominem we know it won't go well for you.

[Mark Ulrik]

You are either joking or in deep denial.

> Ditto for you, me, and other critics here in this forum.

Ironically, no one has done more to destroy this forum than you.

[Steven Galbraith]

There used to be some smart, sensible conspiracy believers around. Or skeptics of the lone assassin explanation. Or just people with something to offer. Barb was one; but she repudiated the "shot through the windshield" clam and for that was exiled. She and others either moved on or were driven out by the hardliners. Several conspiracy believers who used to post here have said, "Enough."
There are conspiracy "realists" who make realistic arguments and then there a type of religious believers who cannot accept any other view. To them you're either a heretic - a conspiracy believer who disagrees - or a corrupt person. This latter group dominates here. Then there are just, well, some not very well people with emotional problems.
Sadly, this is really a microcosm of much of the internet and of our conversations. On this subject, politics, whatever. Everything is pulled down to the lowest denominator. And you find yourself - I do - responding in kind. Saying ugly things.
The internet has lots of good things to offer. You can learn languages, history, read the Great Books. But it has bad things too. E.g., Twitter. And living in the bad places is not a good place to spend your life. It swallows you up.

[David Drummond]

>
> There used to be some smart, sensible conspiracy believers around.

This statement, when coming from a LNer, has always confused me. How can someone be smart and sensible when what they believe is, according to you, crazy kooky bullshit? I, for one, have yet to meet a single intelligent, smart, or sensible LNer.

>
> There are conspiracy "realists" who make realistic arguments

Whoa, what? How can a CTer make a "realistic" argument when everything they believe is tinfoil hat bullshit? Again, I ask. And again I say, I have never, ever, ever encountered a LNer who has made a realistic argument that Oswald not only acted, but did so alone. It is not possible for them to do so, because that is not a reality-based scenario.

>
> Sadly, this is really a microcosm of much of the internet and of our conversations. On this subject, politics, whatever. Everything is pulled down to the lowest denominator.

The first words of the first post in this thread are, "A lonely, pathetic troll named Ben Holmes"

[Christopher Strimbu]

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 3:52:24 PM UTC-4, David Drummond wrote:
> >
> > There used to be some smart, sensible conspiracy believers around.
> This statement, when coming from a LNer, has always confused me. How can someone be smart and sensible when what they believe is, according to you, crazy kooky bullshit? I, for one, have yet to meet a single intelligent, smart, or sensible LNer.
> >

Yeah, kinda like how Ben stated the same and how Gil posted a series called lone nut stupidity. I'm starting to see a pattern.

> > There are conspiracy "realists" who make realistic arguments
> Whoa, what? How can a CTer make a "realistic" argument when everything they believe is tinfoil hat bullshit? Again, I ask. And again I say, I have never, ever, ever encountered a LNer who has made a realistic argument that Oswald not only acted, but did so alone. It is not possible for them to do so, because that is not a reality-based scenario.
> >

Dumbmond has stated the Oswald did it alone scenario is not reality based. I'll let people reflect on the stupidity and irony here.

> > Sadly, this is really a microcosm of much of the internet and of our conversations. On this subject, politics, whatever. Everything is pulled down to the lowest denominator.
> The first words of the first post in this thread are, "A lonely, pathetic troll named Ben Holmes"

Look me in the eye and tell me this doesn't match the description of Ben Holmes down to a tee:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as social media (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc.), a newsgroup, forum, chat room, online video game, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. This is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or manipulating a political process. Even so, Internet trolling can also be defined as purposefully causing confusion or harm to other users online, for no reason at all.

[David Drummond]

> > >
> > > There used to be some smart, sensible conspiracy believers around.
> > This statement, when coming from a LNer, has always confused me. How can someone be smart and sensible when what they believe is, according to you, crazy kooky bullshit? I, for one, have yet to meet a single intelligent, smart, or sensible LNer.
> > >
> Yeah, kinda like how Ben stated the same and how Gil posted a series called lone nut stupidity. I'm starting to see a pattern.

Yes, well when people who are exceptionally versed with the evidence of the case are all saying the same thing, you should maybe listen.

> > > There are conspiracy "realists" who make realistic arguments
> > Whoa, what? How can a CTer make a "realistic" argument when everything they believe is tinfoil hat bullshit? Again, I ask. And again I say, I have never, ever, ever encountered a LNer who has made a realistic argument that Oswald not only acted, but did so alone. It is not possible for them to do so, because that is not a reality-based scenario.
> > >
> Dumbmond has stated the Oswald did it alone scenario is not reality based. I'll let people reflect on the stupidity and irony here.

They can reflect on that statement all they like, as long as they are reflecting on the evidence while they are doing so.

[Ben Holmes]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 13:11:29 -0700 (PDT), David Drummond
<borisba...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>
>>>> There used to be some smart, sensible conspiracy believers around.
>>> This statement, when coming from a LNer, has always confused me. How can someone be smart and sensible when what they believe is, according to you, crazy kooky bullshit? I, for one, have yet to meet a single intelligent, smart, or sensible LNer.
>>>>
>> Yeah, kinda like how Ben stated the same and how Gil posted a series called lone nut stupidity. I'm starting to see a pattern.
>
>Yes, well when people who are exceptionally versed with the evidence of the case are all saying the same thing, you should maybe listen.

Ouch!

And when all believers think that the casket was traveling at 15mph,
you have the entire story in front of you...

[Gil Jesus]

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 10:32:32 AM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Gil only wants confirmation bias. What a clown.

Can't post without an insult, can you ?
You just REALLY HATE anybody who questions the official story. Your posts prove it.

Thank you for proving my point AGAIN.

[Bud]

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 4:44:51 PM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 10:32:32 AM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Gil only wants confirmation bias. What a clown.
> Can't post without an insult, can you ?

Nobody put the red nose on you, you did it yourself.

[David Healy]

last person attempting to destroy this forum was, ta-da: John McMadman we ran his ass out of here 20+ years ago -- old .john never, ever got over that...

[David Healy]

Christopher is a Bud-in-Waiting. The moron hasn't been out in 4 years, get's all his world news from DVP.pinko.ass.

[Ben Holmes]

Chrissy probably works alongside Davey Piney at KFC.

But you're right, Chrissy is definitely gearing up to be another
Chickenshit.

Problem is, he already knows more of the evidence than Chickenshit
does.

[David Healy]

still dancing naked in your livingroom, eh cutie? Perhaps I should direct you to the nearest CR meeting, old gorgeous Georgie pudding-n-pie will fix you up with a schedule... when you get serious show back up...

[David Healy]

not as much as Mark Lane knew... or, a few others around this place...

[Bud]

You idiots don`t bring any reasoning to the table to apply to the evidence.

[Steven Galbraith]

We have "experts" here saying the Birchers killed JFK and Warren et al. both let it happened and covered it up. Another "expert" says three CIA sniper teams killed JFK and LBJ covered it up. Another "expert" quotes the "expert" Mark Lane who says LBJ was not involved even though the first "expert" says he was the ringleader. Another "expert" says one of the black workers killed JFK and Oswald was a diversion. Another "expert" says Greer and Connally shot JFK. Another expert speaks in some language that nobody has ever heard of.
Which of these experts are we to listen to?

[Ben Holmes]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:01:19 -0700 (PDT), Steven Galbraith
<stevemg...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>We have "experts" here saying the Birchers killed JFK and Warren et al.

Then debate *THEM* and leave us out of it.

[Ben Holmes]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 15:01:19 -0700 (PDT), Steven Galbraith
<stevemg...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Which of these experts are we to listen to?

The evidence, moron... the evidence.

[David Healy]

you are a confused Lass/Lassie aren't ya puddin'? Have you ever considered drugs?

[Steven Galbraith]

The person who says that "the Dallas right wing/Birchers killed JFK and Earl Warren et al. covered it up" posts here every day.
Yes, folks, the same Earl Warren that the right wing/Birchers wanted to literally murder covered up for their murder of JFK.
Experts they're called.

[Ben Holmes]

"Experts" in your view. But you're a moron.

Pay attention to the EVIDENCE...

(What a kook!)

[David Von Pein]

On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:21:29 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> What does the EVIDENCE say is the time that JFK's body arrived at Bethesda?

I found a Lincoln, Nebraska, newspaper dated November 23, 1963, and on page 3 of that paper (linked below), there's an article written by United Press International which says:

*** "The President's body arrived at the Bethesda hospital shortly after 6 p.m. CST". ***

6:00 PM CST is, of course, 7:00 PM EST in the Washington, D.C., area.

And that same UPI article also says the following:

*** "The hearse moved slowly into the large hospital grounds, at 5:53 p.m. [CST; which is 6:53 PM EST]. But 20 minutes was consumed in the stop at the front entrance and the drive around the building." ***

This means, according to that UPI article, that President Kennedy's body was still inside the casket inside the gray Navy ambulance as late as 7:13 PM EST, which is a timeline that aligns itself fairly closely with the testimony of Dr. James Humes, who told the Warren Commission that "The president's body was received at 25 minutes before 8".

Here's the 11/23/63 newspaper I found (check the two areas I've highlighted in blue):

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_wdXdIDwS-XQALmembvpWfF0z6IOepPXZBu_QM2tLPVyUv0wAMTlxCQVvaGt8S8h49lPqXbD16-ZYpNCjy88lf2XvZV5mhpyygSRLEQ3iy_6hNcHDQ5PNoCsex5E-AwzXohwjW4OPv_HiX7oe3zpo_3ved7bjW6tHQi7TqAjJKrW35kzIFjjh98Sy/s4000/The-Lincoln-Star-Nov-23-1963--UPI-Reports-That-JFKs-Body-Arrived-At-Bethesda-At-6.53-PM-EST-5.53-PM-CST.jpg

[Gil Jesus]

And I guess that trumps an official government document.

But wait, another newspaper said it was 5:59 in Washington.

"Colonel Swindal eased it onto the runway, the back wheels touching down first with a puff of white smoke, then the front, then the braking as Air Force One slowed to a stop. Reporter Charles Roberts looked up from typing the final pool report that would be handed out to the media. He checked his watch. It was 5:59 pm in Washington."

Scroll down to Chapter 15 in this article:
https://www.washingtonian.com/projects/JFK-AF1/layout2.html#.YmE8CWjMKUk

And more on the arrival of TWO caskets and how an aluminum casket with the President's body arrived in a hearse at Bethesda at 6:35 and the bronze one with Mrs. Kennedy arrived
in the grey ambulance later. And why the body was removed from the casket :

https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/the-af1-tapes-and-subsequent-events-at-andrews-afb-on-november-22-1963-what-was-supposed-to-happen-vs-what-did-happen/

[David Von Pein]

The plane touched down at Andrews at 5:59 (EST), yes. But what has that got to do with when the casket arrived at Bethesda?

[Ben Holmes]

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 03:57:32 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
<davev...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:21:29 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> What does the EVIDENCE say is the time that JFK's body arrived at Bethesda?
>
>I found a Lincoln, Nebraska, newspaper dated November 23, 1963, and on page 3 of that paper (linked below), there's an article written by United Press International which says:
>
>*** "The President's body arrived at the Bethesda hospital shortly after 6 p.m. CST". ***
>
>6:00 PM CST is, of course, 7:00 PM EST in the Washington, D.C., area.
>
>And that same UPI article also says the following:
>
>*** "The hearse moved slowly into the large hospital grounds, at 5:53 p.m. [CST; which is 6:53 PM EST]. But 20 minutes was consumed in the stop at the front entrance and the drive around the building." ***
>
>This means, according to that UPI article, that President Kennedy's body was still inside the casket inside the gray Navy ambulance as late as 7:13 PM EST, which is a timeline that aligns itself fairly closely with the testimony of Dr. James Humes, who told the Warren Commission that "The president's body was received at 25 minutes before 8".

No moron, Huckster already told you that 1917 and 1935 are TWO
DIFFERENT TIMES.

You aren't allowed to call Huckster Sienzant a liar... that's a
privilege reserved for honest people.

>Here's the 11/23/63 newspaper I found (check the two areas I've highlighted in blue):
>
>https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_wdXdIDwS-XQALmembvpWfF0z6IOepPXZBu_QM2tLPVyUv0wAMTlxCQVvaGt8S8h49lPqXbD16-ZYpNCjy88lf2XvZV5mhpyygSRLEQ3iy_6hNcHDQ5PNoCsex5E-AwzXohwjW4OPv_HiX7oe3zpo_3ved7bjW6tHQi7TqAjJKrW35kzIFjjh98Sy/s4000/The-Lincoln-Star-Nov-23-1963--UPI-Reports-That-JFKs-Body-Arrived-At-Bethesda-At-6.53-PM-EST-5.53-PM-CST.jpg

And again, we have a liar.

Everytime someone gives evidence for the time JFK's body arrived at
Bethesda, and refuses to mention the earliest written memo, they've
simply lied by omission.

Notice that the eyewitnesses who where THERE haven't been mentioned at
all... only a hearsay account. And we know, because Huckster told us,
that 'Actually, another (believer) so desperate for evidence that they
must cite hearsay because they don't have that admissible evidence.

Davy Von Penis is a proven liar.

Amusingly, he's now arguing for the *second* time that I referred to,
the 1917 entry... and refuting Chrissy, Chickenshit, and Huckster's
tiime of 1935.

JFK only entered Bethesda three times.

When Von Penis needs to lie, nothing more need be said...

[Ben Holmes]

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 06:52:36 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
<davev...@aol.com> wrote:

>The plane touched down at Andrews at 5:59 (EST), yes. But what has that got to do with when the casket arrived at Bethesda?

Anyone notice that this moron simply made an assertion with *NO*
citation or supporting evidence?

And only a moron thinks that the *start* time, travel distance, and
speed have nothing to do with when the casket arrives.

MORON ALERT!!!

Watch folks, as no citations will be forthcoming for either of this
moron's assertions...

[David Von Pein]

A first-day account from UPI that mentions a specific to-the-minute time like "5:53" (6:53 EST) is a report that's probably pretty darn accurate.

And then when we add on the "20 minutes was consumed in the stop at the front entrance and the drive around the building", we're up to 7:13 PM EST, with JFK still resting inside the Navy ambulance.

Conspiracy theorists, though, will always prefer the dramatic cloak-&-dagger options of multiple casket entries and "pre-autopsy autopsies", regardless of how utterly implausible---and impossible---those options are here in the real world.

[Ben Holmes]

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 07:12:56 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
<davev...@aol.com> wrote:

>A first-day account from UPI that mentions a specific to-the-minute time like "5:53" (6:53 EST) is a report that's probably pretty darn accurate.

Hearsay again ... trying to trump the actual radio. RUN COWARD...
RUN!

This is why believers believe... they don't understand evidence.

> And then when we add on the "20 minutes was consumed in the stop at
> the front entrance and the drive around the building", we're up to
> 7:13 PM EST, with JFK still resting inside the Navy ambulance.

If I delete all speculative statements, and all assertions made with
no source or citation, nothing would be left of this post.

You are, of course, begging the question.

And you IGNORED COMPLETELY the fact that Huckster has already pointed
out that you're wrong.

LFD.

[Bud]

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 10:20:07 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 07:12:56 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
> <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >A first-day account from UPI that mentions a specific to-the-minute time like "5:53" (6:53 EST) is a report that's probably pretty darn accurate.
> Hearsay again ... trying to trump the actual radio. RUN COWARD...
> RUN!
>
> This is why believers believe... they don't understand evidence.

If you were an adult you would compile all the times from all the sources and make an argument that some times should be given more weight than others. This is, after all, your issue, you are the one who sees significance in it (which you won`t spell out). Instead you shift the burden to others to disprove your unstated idea, about as crooked an exercise as it gets.

> > And then when we add on the "20 minutes was consumed in the stop at
> > the front entrance and the drive around the building", we're up to
> > 7:13 PM EST, with JFK still resting inside the Navy ambulance.
> If I delete all speculative statements, and all assertions made with
> no source or citation, nothing would be left of this post.

Apply reasoning to information is something foreign to you.

> You are, of course, begging the question.

Deductive reasoning.

> And you IGNORED COMPLETELY the fact that Huckster has already pointed
> out that you're wrong.

How so?

> LFD.

[David Von Pein]

In addition to the UPI article I mentioned previously, there's also the November 30, 1963, written report of Secret Service Agent Paul Landis [Commission Document No. 1095, linked below], in which Landis states that President Kennedy's body arrived at Bethesda Naval Hospital at "approximately 6:55 p.m.", which is a time that almost perfectly matches the time provided in the United Press International newspaper article. Agent Landis, by the way, rode in the front seat of the Navy ambulance during the drive from Andrews to Bethesda. So he was actually there when the ambulance drove onto the Bethesda property on the evening of 11/22/63.

CD1095:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11491#relPageId=39

[Ben Holmes]

And *NOW* we have an example of begging the question. Finally Davy is
brave enough to cite legitimate evidence, but can't figure out why
it's CONTRADICTED by other, equally credible evidence.

And amusingly, he's gotten the casket to move FASTER than 15mph... now
he's up to 25mph.

Still not credible at all. NOT CREDIBLE AT ALL! The eyewitnesses say
otherwise... but Davy's too afraid to post evidence that contradicts
his faith.

But as we see, Davy Von Penis keeps snipping what he doesn't want to
respond to, so here's what he's running from:

[David Von Pein]

On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 12:13:54 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 08:52:01 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
> <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > In addition to the UPI article I mentioned previously, there's also
> > the November 30, 1963, written report of Secret Service Agent Paul
> > Landis [Commission Document No. 1095, linked below], in which Landis
> > states that President Kennedy's body arrived at Bethesda Naval
> > Hospital at "approximately 6:55 p.m.", which is a time that almost
> > perfectly matches the time provided in the United Press International
> > newspaper article. Agent Landis, by the way, rode in the front seat of
> > the Navy ambulance during the drive from Andrews to Bethesda. So he
> > was actually there when the ambulance drove onto the Bethesda property
> > on the evening of 11/22/63.
> >
> >CD1095:
> >https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11491#relPageId=39
> And *NOW* we have an example of begging the question. Finally Davy is
> brave enough to cite legitimate evidence, but can't figure out why
> it's CONTRADICTED by other, equally credible evidence.
>
> And amusingly, he's gotten the casket to move FASTER than 15mph... now
> he's up to 25mph.
>
> Still not credible at all. NOT CREDIBLE AT ALL! The eyewitnesses say
> otherwise... but Davy's too afraid to post evidence that contradicts
> his faith.

Landis *IS* an eyewitness, Holmes. He was there---in the ambulance with the body. (But just pretend he doesn't exist---or was a liar.)

And 25mph is certainly not an unreasonable speed. The motorcade to Bethesda probably traveled faster than that, but I don't know for sure (no one does). But I'd guess that such a somber procession wouldn't have moved at a breakneck speed. Maybe 30 to 40 mph at times. But I doubt it exceeded 40 mph at any time.

And, once again, Benny Holmes is the only one who gets to decide who and what is credible. He can never lose an argument with such a high-handed rule in place.

[Ben Holmes]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:02:48 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:47:47 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:43:59 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:38:04 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>>>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:21:29 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:15:47 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>>>>>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:09:45 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:05:22 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Strimbu
>>>>>>>> <christoph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 11:11:32 AM UTC-4, David Drummond wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 10:39:06 AM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 10:38:06 AM UTC-4, David Drummond wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, Humes certainly had a reason to confuse the issue - he needed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to "erase" the time spent on the pre-autopsy autopsy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He's the same "witness" who burned his autopsy notes as soon as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oswald was dead. His excuse that Kennedy's blood was on the notes is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>inexcuseable.
>>>>>>>>>>>> LNers like to forget that his notes aren't the only ones. Seldom do they mention that Finck's original notes disappeared also. I think there was a fruit punch stain on the top corner of page 3.
>>>>>>>>>>> How is that the least bit relevant to the discussion, Mr. Dumbmond?
>>>>>>>>>> Also, you can call me "Dumbmond" all you like, since that is not my real name. I log onto this forum under a fake burner account, because at the time I was unfamiliar with this site and feared spam and other undesirable notifications going to my real email. I mean...you work at Google; you should know this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I never claimed to work at Google, Dumbmond. Try again.
>>>>>>>> My guess would be Kentucky Fried Chicken.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chrissy's clearly not smart enough to work at Google.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Nah. KFC has had a giant fall from grace. If I did work at KFC, it would be in Japan.
>>>>>>>(It's sad when you brand is more well liked and popular in a foreign country then the state it's named after)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a refutation... simply a non-credible denial.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does the EVIDENCE say is the time that JFK's body arrived at
>>>>>> Bethesda?
>>>>>

>>>>>What evidence is considered "credible" in your opinion?
>>>> BZZZZT! Nope... Fail.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't say anything at all about credibility. That's simply a
>>>> logical fallacy on your part.
>>>>
>>>> List relevant evidence that pertains to the time JFK's body arrived at
>>>> Bethesda.
>>>>
>>>> Or run again... who cares?
>>>
>>>https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/g2RyVQ25Uxc/m/ET0mjj8JBgAJ
>> You're lying again, Chrissy.
>>
>> And you *KNOW* you're lying - because you've proven an understanding
>> of lying by omission.
>>
>> When all you have are lies, you've merely shown to the world that
>> *YOU* know you lost.
>>
>> Now, list relevant evidence that pertains to the time JFK's body
>> arrived at Bethesda.
>
> Why don`t you?

Why don't you?

The answer is obvious... you're a coward.

[Ben Holmes]

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 08:19:15 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
wrote:

>On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 10:20:07 AM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 07:12:56 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein
>> <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>A first-day account from UPI that mentions a specific to-the-minute time like "5:53" (6:53 EST) is a report that's probably pretty darn accurate.
>>
>> Hearsay again ... trying to trump the actual radio. RUN COWARD...
>> RUN!
>>
>> This is why believers believe... they don't understand evidence.
>

> If you were an adult...

Looks like a fairly obvious logical fallacy.

>>> And then when we add on the "20 minutes was consumed in the stop at
>>> the front entrance and the drive around the building", we're up to
>>> 7:13 PM EST, with JFK still resting inside the Navy ambulance.
>>
>> If I delete all speculative statements, and all assertions made with
>> no source or citation, nothing would be left of this post.

LFD.

>> You are, of course, begging the question.
>>

>> And you IGNORED COMPLETELY the fact that Huckster has already pointed
>> out that you're wrong.
>
> How so?

Already posted... can't read?

>> LFD.

[Ben Holmes]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 13:46:28 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 4:44:51 PM UTC-4, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 10:32:32 AM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> Gil only wants confirmation bias. What a clown.
>> Can't post without an insult, can you ?
>

> Nobody put the red nose on you, you did it yourself.

As Huckster proclaims: You’re not interested in a discussion of the
facts and evidence in the case, because you know it will go badly for
you.

[Ben Holmes]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 14:56:03 -0700 (PDT), Bud <sirs...@fast.net>

wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 5:47:40 PM UTC-4, Ben Holmes wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 14:44:26 -0700 (PDT), David Healy
>> <dhealy9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 1:44:51 PM UTC-7, gjjma...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 10:32:32 AM UTC-4, christoph...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Gil only wants confirmation bias. What a clown.
>>>> Can't post without an insult, can you ?
>>>> You just REALLY HATE anybody who questions the official story. Your posts prove it.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for proving my point AGAIN.
>>>
>>>Christopher is a Bud-in-Waiting. The moron hasn't been out in 4 years, get's all his world news from DVP.pinko.ass.
>> Chrissy probably works alongside Davey Piney at KFC.
>>
>> But you're right, Chrissy is definitely gearing up to be another
>> Chickenshit.
>>
>> Problem is, he already knows more of the evidence than Chickenshit
>> does.
>
> You idiots don`t bring any reasoning to the table to apply to the evidence.

Huckster spanks Chickenshit: "When you start with ad hominem we know
it won't go well for you."

[Ben Holmes]

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 09:28:17 -0700 (PDT), David Von Pein

There you go, molesting your own mother now.

Nothing I said shows that I'm "pretending" anything at all.

And the only person I've charged with lying - is *YOU*. You continue
to omit evidence you *KNOW* exists...

But again, you're begging the question. Describe the casket he rode
with... and explain why they were only going 25mph.

(I predict dead silence on both questions...)

Or run away again, who cares?

> And 25mph is certainly not an unreasonable speed.

Yes... it is. It's contradicted by an eyewitness.

>The motorcade to Bethesda probably traveled faster than that,

"Probably?"

You're a proven moron!!!

> but I don't know for sure (no one does).

Yes stupid, it traveled faster than 25mph. I *DO* know this, and you
would too if you believed the eyewitnesses.

> But I'd guess that such a somber procession wouldn't have moved at a
> breakneck speed. Maybe 30 to 40 mph at times. But I doubt it exceeded
> 40 mph at any time.

Speculation doesn't trump the eyewitnesses.

You lose.

LFD.

[Christopher Strimbu]

It appears DVP has made Assassination argument 1350 out of this thread.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2022/04/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1350.html

Nice.