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Conspiracy defined in JFK's murder.

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charles wallace

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Mar 3, 2007, 2:21:15 PM3/3/07
to
Three TSBD employees were on the fifth floor during the shooting in
Dealey Plaza. They heard no more than three shots. There is no evidence
that the sixth floor shooter in the TSBD fired more than three shots.
If there was more than three shots fired during the shooting then there
was more than one shooter and therefore a conspiracy.

Abraham Zapruder filmed the assassination and told the American public
on live TV after the shooting that he heard a shot as he was filming and
that JFK slumped to his left. Then he heard another shot or two. He
couldn't tell whether it was one or two. This account matches Mrs.
Lillian Mooneyham's account. She heard a gunshot and observed JFK slump
to the left. Following this first shot there was a slight pause and then
two more shots, the second and third sounding closer together, she
claimed.

Now Govenor John B. Connally claimed he heard a shot before he himself
was hit. His wife, Nellie sitting right beside him agrees because she
claimed that she turned and looked at JFK upon hearing noise and saw JFK
with his hands towards his throat. Then JBC is hit, she claimed.

The witnesses in Dealey Plaza in my opinion had heard 'pop...pop...Pow'
and described this as the first shot which sounded like a firecracker to
them. Some just did not hear the initial 'pop...pop'. The majority of
the ear witnesses claimed following the first shot that there was a
pause then two quick shots in succession.

If you look at the Zapruder film you will see that at Z255 frame JFK
starts his slump to the left. The evidence is that there will be two
more shots fired after this Zapruder frame. The evidence also is that
both JFK and JBC have been shot at this point in time. Whether you want
to believe that both men were wounded by the same bullet or not the
evidence is that there has been two shots fired before Z255 at a
minimum.

So the evidence is that at least two shots were fired before Z255 and
that two shots were fired after Z255. Four shots minimum then were
fired during the assassination of JFK and therefore a conspiracy in his
murder took place.

IMO the above evidence is why the HSCA allowed 4 of the 5 shots present
on the acoustic recording to be reported to the public.

The evidentiary bottom line is that President John F. Kennedy was
murdered by at least two people shooting at him November 22, 1963.

Case Wide Open: A JFK Murder Investigation
http://community.webtv.net/ccwallace/CaseWideOpenAJFK

Bud

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Mar 3, 2007, 3:07:34 PM3/3/07
to

charles wallace wrote:
> Three TSBD employees were on the fifth floor during the shooting in
> Dealey Plaza. They heard no more than three shots. There is no evidence
> that the sixth floor shooter in the TSBD fired more than three shots.
> If there was more than three shots fired during the shooting then there
> was more than one shooter and therefore a conspiracy.

You are as bad as Ben at defining conspiracy. Two shooters does not
automatically mean a conspiracy, kooks!

Wow, a kook microanalyses testimony, plugs it into the z-film, and
concludes there was a conspiracy. Why haven`t I seen this approach
before?

YoHarvey

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Mar 3, 2007, 3:08:34 PM3/3/07
to


You claim the "evidence" proves two shots before Z255 but offer no
evidence other than the unreliability of eye and ear witnesses which
we know to be terribly unreliable. At ZAP 223 as the limo comes
out from behind the Stemmons sigh, we first see JC. His white shirt
and tie knot are clearly visible as is the beginning of JFK's right
shirt cuff. At ZAP 224 we also clearly see a distinct change. JC's
right jacket lapel is clearly moved. At ZAP 225, we now see JFK
cluthching his throat and JC clearly uncomfortable. For me, this
is shot #2. Shot 1, at ZAP is also clearning distinguisable by
watching the reaction of young Rosemary Wills as she stops her
running on the sidewalks and turns to look at the TSBD. For me,
this is evidence; not relying on eye or ear witnesses because
quite simply ear and eye witnesses cannot be trusted especially
during times of stress. For me ZAP 223-225 clearly prove the
SBT. With each frame being 1/18 of a second, it's proven
JFK and JC were hit virtually instantaneiously. To address
a different point, the autopsy pics and x-rays show no blow
out of the BOH because we can clearly see at ZAP 313 there
is none!

eca...@tx.rr.com

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Mar 3, 2007, 3:13:30 PM3/3/07
to
Charles this is truly ancient
news.. The otherwise stellar
report by the HSCA was
grotesquely marred by the
blunder to end all investigative
blunders.. The mike tape the
HSCA analyzed was 3.5 miles
north on Stemmons I-35 at the
time of the assassination.. The
HSCA assumed they were analyzing
DPD Officer McLain's mike but as
he pointed out after their
historic faux pas they never
even bothered to ask him!
This has been documented over
and over Charles by both McLain
and several high tech follow-ups..

Whar
hav
yew
bin
Charles?!?

MR :~? ED

aeffects

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Mar 3, 2007, 3:19:24 PM3/3/07
to
On Mar 3, 12:13 pm, ecag...@tx.rr.com wrote:
> Charles this is truly ancient
> news.. The otherwise stellar
> report by the HSCA was
> grotesquely marred by the
> blunder to end all investigative
> blunders.. The mike tape the
> HSCA analyzed was 3.5 miles
> north on Stemmons I-35 at the
> time of the assassination.. The
> HSCA assumed they were analyzing
> DPD Officer McLain's mike but as
> he pointed out after their
> historic faux pas they never
> even bothered to ask him!
> This has been documented over
> and over Charles by both McLain
> and several high tech follow-ups..
>
> Whar
> hav
> yew
> bin
> Charles?!?


the question really boils down to Eddie, where have you BIN? Now
you've claimed to be a photo expert, where might one confirm this
claim?

Gil Jesus

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Mar 3, 2007, 6:23:46 PM3/3/07
to
Charles:

Hello and good to see you again.

What these lone nut idiots either don't understand, or don't want
anyone ELSE to understand is that for JFK and Connally to be hit by
the same bullet, they would have had to be have been hit IN THE SAME Z-
Frame.

But the Zapruder film clearly shows Kennedy reacting to a throat wound
at Z225 and Connally's lung collapsing at Z236. There is no way
Connally could have "delayed" the collapsing of his lung voluntarily
because this was a physiological reaction to the lung being pierced by
a piece of broken rib.

Even if the bullet was travelling at half of it's muzzle velocity, say
1,000ft/sec and the two men were 10 feet apart, it would have taken .
01 secs for the bullet to travel through both bodies. Translated,
that's .0549 Z-Frames.

Or, about HALF A Z-FRAME.

The FBI knew this. So did the Secret Service. That's why they never
bought into the Single Bullsh*t Theory. It was obvious to them that
each man was hit by a separate shot.

When the physical evidence, in this case the Zapruder film,
corresponds to and verifies the eyewitness and the earwitness
accounts, (like SM Holland who said that Kennedy and Connally were hit
by separate shots, that Kennedy reacted first and then Connally was
hit, and Governor Connally and Mrs. Connally, who said that Kennedy
had already slumped BEFORE the Governor was hit), those witness
accounts can be deemed pretty accurate.

YoHarvey

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Mar 3, 2007, 7:12:53 PM3/3/07
to

One more time Gil "Chico" Jesus shows his lack of knowledge of this
assassination and what evidence shows. Of course, this is the same
"Chico" that has refused on 7 different occassions to prove his
comment that JFK's body was switched at Parkland so we shouldn't be
that surprised now should we? What Chico refuses to accept is the
lapel movement on JC at ZAP 225. He apparently doesn't accept this as
EVIDENCE even though the American Academy of Science has.
This is only rocket science to those CT's such as Chico that MUST
FIND CONSPIRACY somehow where it doesn't exist. JFK's hand and arm
position at ZAP 224 and JC's lapel flap at ZAP 225 are
instantaneious! That is FACT. ZAP 224-225 are YOUR PROOF of the
single bullet fact (SBF). Whether JC's lung collapsed at ZAP 236 is
totally and completely irrelevent and pure conjecture on the part of
Chico. Then again, EVERY SINGLE word uttered by Chico Jesus is pure
conjecture, now isn't it??

eca...@tx.rr.com

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Mar 3, 2007, 8:12:26 PM3/3/07
to
So you want to verify my photo retouching credentials of that era..

Here's how:
Bring in any "ringer" or expert(s)
you wish who knew photo retouching
from that era David.. They (he)
can ask me any sophisticated
question on photo-retouching or
altering or air-brushing in that
era that they wish.. I will answer
them all in detail..

You or they can call me at home
at 972-596-4363 (Listed under Ed
Cage in Plano TX) - That way you
can be certain my answers were my
own. Additionally you can confirm
the existence of the Art Board in
Dallas which I owned for decades.
And if that isn't enough I'll be
glad to, in fact I think I will
post a somewhat sophisticated expose
I did some years ago re the Jack
White Moorman BadgeMan photo.

Try me: 972-596-4363
Ed Cage


> On Mar 3, 2:19 pm, "aeffects" <aeffe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 3, 12:13 pm, ecag...@tx.rr.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Charles this is truly ancient
> > news.. The otherwise stellar
> > report by the HSCA was
> > grotesquely marred by the
> > blunder to end all investigative
> > blunders.. The mike tape the
> > HSCA analyzed was 3.5 miles
> > north on Stemmons I-35 at the
> > time of the assassination.. The
> > HSCA assumed they were analyzing
> > DPD Officer McLain's mike but as
> > he pointed out after their
> > historic faux pas they never
> > even bothered to ask him!
> > This has been documented over
> > and over Charles by both McLain
> > and several high tech follow-ups..
>
>

> the question really boils down to Eddie, where have you BIN? Now
> you've claimed to be a photo expert, where might one confirm this
> claim?
>

> - Show quoted text -


tomnln

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Mar 3, 2007, 9:50:00 PM3/3/07
to

"Bud" <sirs...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:1172952454.5...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

>
> charles wallace wrote:
>> Three TSBD employees were on the fifth floor during the shooting in
>> Dealey Plaza. They heard no more than three shots. There is no evidence
>> that the sixth floor shooter in the TSBD fired more than three shots.
>> If there was more than three shots fired during the shooting then there
>> was more than one shooter and therefore a conspiracy.
=============================================================================

> You are as bad as Ben at defining conspiracy. Two shooters does not
> automatically mean a conspiracy, kooks!

GOOD GRIEF

===========================================================================

luthie...@yahoo.com

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Mar 4, 2007, 2:15:50 AM3/4/07
to
i still dont see what the problem with it all is. i accepted the
conspiracy when i was 7 years old and my mother explained it to me.
everything i have learned about it ever since only reinforces that.
some people think that by some fluke of paperwork they are going to
discover the truth. when all of the documents have been opressed by
the gov. because like little kids, we cant be trusted with such
information. maybe my son will some day be able to get hold of the
classified material. but i doubt it.
two shooters to me, does mean conspiacy, when they were soo hot to
frame oswald and murder him, who no one saw do it.
the government does alot of sinister things, ignorance to it, doesnt
change the facts.

On Mar 3, 9:50 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Bud" <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote in message


>
> news:1172952454.5...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> > charles wallace wrote:
> >> Three TSBD employees were on the fifth floor during the shooting in
> >> Dealey Plaza. They heard no more than three shots. There is no evidence
> >> that the sixth floor shooter in the TSBD fired more than three shots.
> >> If there was more than three shots fired during the shooting then there
> >> was more than one shooter and therefore a conspiracy.
>

> ===========================================================================­==

> >>http://community.webtv.net/ccwallace/CaseWideOpenAJFK- Hide quoted text -

Bud

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Mar 4, 2007, 6:50:21 AM3/4/07
to

luthie...@yahoo.com wrote:
> i still dont see what the problem with it all is.

Me either, it is a simple case.

> i accepted the
> conspiracy when i was 7 years old and my mother explained it to me.

That is how a lot of people get their religion.

> everything i have learned about it ever since only reinforces that.
> some people think that by some fluke of paperwork they are going to
> discover the truth. when all of the documents have been opressed by
> the gov. because like little kids, we cant be trusted with such
> information. maybe my son will some day be able to get hold of the
> classified material. but i doubt it.

Make sure you teach your son to be the paranoid kook mom taught
you to be.

> two shooters to me, does mean conspiacy,

But in reality, two shooters doesn`t necessarily mean conspiracy.

>when they were soo hot to
> frame oswald and murder him,

Ruby was hot to kill Oz. Who are the "they" you refer to?

> who no one saw do it.

Everyone saw Ruby shoot Oz. Oh, do you mean nobody saw Oz shoot
JFK? Howard Brennan did.

> the government does alot of sinister things,

Yah, and the Rodney King beating shows black people are beaten by
police every time they are stopped.

> ignorance to it, doesnt
> change the facts.

Another pilgrim with the "facts" on his side. You must be a
regular in Nutsack`s chatroom, right?

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 4, 2007, 5:49:13 PM3/4/07
to
the "they" is who JFK thought "had a collective deathwish for the
world"
you study your ignorant positions without knowing what was going on in
the world at the time.
since i have done twenty years in the government and retired from it,
i know tons more about the "kooky" things they do stupid.
your ignorant is bested only by your own stupidity.
retard

On Mar 4, 6:50 am, "Bud" <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:

> > > >>http://community.webtv.net/ccwallace/CaseWideOpenAJFK-Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Bud

unread,
Mar 4, 2007, 9:02:18 PM3/4/07
to

luthie...@yahoo.com wrote:
> the "they" is who JFK thought "had a collective deathwish for the
> world"
> you study your ignorant positions without knowing what was going on in
> the world at the time.

What about now? Aren`t they still out to get you?

> since i have done twenty years in the government and retired from it,

Further evidence our government could never pull off an operation
as complex as this assassination.

> i know tons more about the "kooky" things they do stupid.
> your ignorant is bested only by your own stupidity.

Classic.

> retard

Easy, Mongo. I`m sure you`re right. Rest.

luthie...@yahoo.com

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Mar 4, 2007, 9:04:07 PM3/4/07
to
and while your sitting there with yourself stupid, you can thank and
think about my father who died in the vietnam war that kennedy didnt
want and the sick degenerate individuals that you sit here and
defend ..did. then go educate yourself about the bay of pigs
moron...........and while your at it moron, watergate. then you can
thank the greedy power minds that "are" in controll now for the wars
that cost more life for causes that arent going to get fulfilled, all
the while you sit here in your dreamworld thinking that your right.
then if you have any brains in you at all, it can all be traced back
to one person, one deed, one dead ruler who's murder changed the
coarse of this nation. so now you can go be part of all the degenerate
nation that you belong.
moron, police arent part of the CIA or FBI are they??
then go ask yourslef at why all those witnesses were murdered.
why kennedys body was hacked up after it left dallas
why the government is withholding so much documentation
here is an idea, go buy a clue

On Mar 4, 6:50 am, "Bud" <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:

> > > >>http://community.webtv.net/ccwallace/CaseWideOpenAJFK-Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

luthie...@yahoo.com

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Mar 4, 2007, 9:18:06 PM3/4/07
to
your an idiot if you think the government is worried about "you" or
"me"
they would just assume kill ya and be done with it, but you know they
will just make you look like an idiot, because your nobody, and from
where im sitting, that wouldnt be to hard as far as you go. little do
you know about our "government" and the scandals they are involved in.
so as long as they got you and everybody else stupid, they
accomplished their job.
nice of you to live up to their expectations.

> > > > > >>http://community.webtv.net/ccwallace/CaseWideOpenAJFK-Hidequoted text -

Bud

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Mar 4, 2007, 10:44:47 PM3/4/07
to

luthie...@yahoo.com wrote:
> and while your sitting there with yourself stupid, you can thank and
> think about my father who died in the vietnam war that kennedy didnt
> want

He had a strange way of showing it, sending troops there and all.
But, our story so far, mommy was bitter at the government over daddy`s
death, so she home schooled you in the leftist party line, that about
right? Something about the information you are throwing out seems, I
don`t know, lets say "questionable".

>and the sick degenerate individuals that you sit here and
> defend ..did. then go educate yourself about the bay of pigs
> moron...........and while your at it moron, watergate. then you can
> thank the greedy power minds that "are" in controll now for the wars
> that cost more life for causes that arent going to get fulfilled, all
> the while you sit here in your dreamworld thinking that your right.

Are you purposely portraying yourself as a parody, or is it
accidental?

> then if you have any brains in you at all, it can all be traced back
> to one person, one deed, one dead ruler who's murder changed the
> coarse of this nation.

Yah, we`d all have those hovercraft by now if Kennedy would have
ducked.

> so now you can go be part of all the degenerate
> nation that you belong.
> moron, police arent part of the CIA or FBI are they??
> then go ask yourslef at why all those witnesses were murdered.
> why kennedys body was hacked up after it left dallas

Much less than many standard autopsies, more is the pity.

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 4, 2007, 10:56:17 PM3/4/07
to
boy you meatheads reallly are lost.....WOW.

> > > > > >>http://community.webtv.net/ccwallace/CaseWideOpenAJFK-Hidequoted text -

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 4, 2007, 11:02:30 PM3/4/07
to
so you really got no answers at all, just a fictious belief that
oswald shot a magic bullet??
and obviouslly no idea what the government is capable of, except
brainwashing you, ummm you dont even know that.
your fighting a uphill battle with no answers, most the people with
any common sense at all in this country, know of the conspiracy and
cover up.
but you got no answers, just smart remarks do ya. because your not
going to change anyones mind who knows of the conspiracy, there is way
to much evidence for you to overcome with your "wit"
ya got no answers
therefore
you got no clue

> > > > > >>http://community.webtv.net/ccwallace/CaseWideOpenAJFK-Hidequoted text -

David Von Pein

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Mar 5, 2007, 12:05:37 AM3/5/07
to
>>> "Yah, we`d all have those hovercraft by now if Kennedy would have ducked." <<<

LOL.
LOL.
LOL.

Another.......

ROFL!

And we'd also have those automatic "Food-A-Rac-A-Cycle" thingies that
George Jetson posssessed in "The Jetsons", too.

Goddamn conspirators! Robbed me of so much stuff!

Shit!

We'd probably have Land Speeders by now too.

Shit!!

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 2:06:51 AM3/5/07
to
one hundred and seventy seven witnesses murdered........ including
police officers
"we operate a murder inc." Lyndon Johnson"
and you sit here and refrence a zapruder film thats obviouslly
tampered with. i have to admit, you give the word idiot new meanings.
and like all the other losers here, all you can do is sling
names...... ha.....
go back to your fantasy world that you obviouslly live in, because
your not living in reality.........
your money and possesions perish with thee.

David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 2:23:11 AM3/5/07
to
>>> "one hundred and seventy seven witnesses murdered........ including police officers..." <<<

Oh, come now, my good kook! You can do better than 177! There must
have been at least 277 that fell victim to the massive "Mystery Death"
gang of murderous cover-uppers.

You haven't forgotten to put Gerry Ford and Arthur Schlesinger on your
Mystery Deaths list, have you? Those two men were definitely murdered
because of what they "knew". It's obvious!


>>> "And you sit here and refrence a zapruder film thats obviouslly tampered with." <<<

Ahh, yes. The "Everything Was Tampered With" ploy. Lovely.

Let me guess -- you've got a front-row seat at every Conspiracy
Symposium, right?

Take a typing class instead. You need it.


>>> "i have to admit, you give the word idiot new meanings. and like all the other losers here, all you can do is sling names." <<<

You mean sling insults? If so, yes, that's my stock in trade when
encountering kooks like you. And you make it quite easy to do, too.
Congrats.


>>> "ha.....go back to your fantasy world that you obviouslly live in, because your not living in reality......... your money and possesions perish with thee." <<<

Ever hear of the "Shift" key?

Or a dictionary?

Typical kook. Unable to write two sentences in a row without one of
them containing either an ample amount of CT kookshit or numerous
grammatical errors....and usually both.

Back to your bottle, kook. After your last tirade, you must be quite
dry.

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 6:10:41 AM3/5/07
to
yeah im a kook dirtbag, thats why your in a jfkconspiracy thread,
arguing with me, that takes brains.
LOL LMFAO
wait let me guess, you think your gonna outwit me to death or
embarrass me dickweed??
go smoke another blunt stupid and watch your magic bullet, all the
while kennedy is gasping for air while connally is holding his stetson
when his wrist is shattered, turn around with shattered ribs, and
wonder how the bullet is so pristine,................ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
pretty.............. ohhhhhhhhhhh nice
hey stupid, what about the fragments they removed from
connally.........LOL LMFAO
DIRTBAG

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 6:32:14 AM3/5/07
to

David Von Pein

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Mar 5, 2007, 6:39:29 AM3/5/07
to
>>> "yeah im a kook dirtbag..." <<<

Glad you see things my way.


>>> "you think your gonna outwit me...." <<<

Doesn't take much to outwit a nitwit.

And I plan on out-spelling you too.


>>> "go smoke another blunt..." <<<

If I knew what that was I still wouldn't have a chance to smoke
one....for it's obvious you've just smoked the last one.


>>> "connally is holding his stetson when his wrist is shattered..." <<<

Learn the case before opening your large yap, Mr. Nuthatch. Connally
NEVER DROPPED HIS HAT. ......

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/nellie.txt

Now, what about that SHIFT key? Ever plan on utilizing it, kook?

David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 6:39:54 AM3/5/07
to
>>> "What about the fragments they removed from Connally?" <<<

What about them? The TOTAL amount of fragments that were LEFT INSIDE
Connally AND removed from Connally's body (from his wrist only, since
there were ZERO fragments found in his chest/thorax and just one super-
tiny fragment left in his thigh) weighed "less than the weight of a
postage stamp".

The total amount of lead missing from Bullet CE399 is approximately
2.2 grains, which is way more than the amount of fragments that were
removed from Governor Connally and left inside his body COMBINED.

In fact, Dr. John Lattimer was able to produce 41 fragments from just
2 total grains of lead from a WCC/MC bullet just like CE399. (And it
looks to me like every one of these 41 fragments is bigger in size
than any of the fragments that were ever inside John Connally's
body.).....

http://i13.tinypic.com/2s7vnk0.jpg

So, what is there about Dr. Charles Gregory's WC testimony regarding
the Connally bullet fragments that you don't like here, Mr. CTer? Do
you think that Gregory is a rotten, scheming "Let's Get Oswald" liar
here?.....

DR. GREGORY -- "I would identify these fragments as varying from five-
tenths of a millimeter in diameter to approximately two millimeters in
diameter, and each fragment is no more than a half millimeter in
thickness. They would represent, in lay terms, flakes...flakes of
metal."

ARLEN SPECTER -- "What would your estimate be as to their weight in
total?"

DR. GREGORY -- "I would estimate that they would be weighed in
micrograms, which is very small amount of weight. ... It is the kind
of weighing that requires a micro-adjustable scale; which means that
it is something less than the weight of a postage stamp."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/gregory1.htm

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/61fe27a14fb7dd35

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/47810571b617d872

http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/discussions/start-thread.html/ref=cm_rdp_dp/002-2065385-6525668?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0151522812&authorID=A1FDW1SPYKB354&store=yourstore&reviewID=R2Y8HMTWRF6L2Q&displayType=ReviewDetail

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 6:55:09 AM3/5/07
to
OHHHHHHHHHHH look at the Magic Bullet................ OHHHHHHHHH its
soo nice looking........................ Pretty........
LOL
while your at it, lets see the test subjects the warren commission
fired........
and lets take a look at your magic bullet and figure out where those
fragments came from smart.

> http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/discussions/start-thread.ht...


David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 7:02:07 AM3/5/07
to
I guess you hadn't smoked the last "blunt", huh Luthier? You must've
had a couple more under your mattress.

Message has been deleted

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 7:04:21 AM3/5/07
to
On Mar 5, 7:02 am, "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> I guess you hadn't smoked the last "blunt", huh Luthier? You must've
> had a couple more under your mattress.

thats what i thought, revert back to your ignorance
dont got a answer for that do you smart

David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 7:05:59 AM3/5/07
to
Luthier .... Did you bother to even READ my last post re. the Connally
fragments?

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 7:19:06 AM3/5/07
to
yep, but i must say, it never ceases to amaze me at how thick headed
some people are about this subject. if you dont think that majick
bullet is evidence enough for conspiracy, after it passed through
kennedy's spine, shattered connally's ribs, shattered connally's
wrist, and ended up in his leg, and ends up on the wrong stretcher in
the hospital, not to mention, the bullets they testfired through just
one pig bone were severelly distorted, is evidance enough, then i dont
know what to tell ya....... what will???

Bud

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 7:48:36 AM3/5/07
to

luthie...@yahoo.com wrote:
> so you really got no answers at all, just a fictious belief that
> oswald shot a magic bullet??

It`s fiction that I believe a magic bullet was needed. You kooks
need a magic shooter, one who disappears without a trace seconds after
the shots.

> and obviouslly no idea what the government is capable of,

Anything, to hear kooks tell it. They can get anyone to swear to
anything at any time. Arrayed against this omnipotent and malignant
force, we have numbnuts who can`t capitalize. You are David without
the sling, Frodo without the ring.

> except
> brainwashing you, ummm you dont even know that.
> your fighting a uphill battle with no answers,

I was hoping you could provide them. I know you said "they", but I
was hoping for something a litlle more specific and tangible. Please
hurry, it`s been decades, and I don`t expect to live forever.

>most the people with
> any common sense at all in this country, know of the conspiracy and
> cover up.

They also knew Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.

> but you got no answers, just smart remarks do ya. because your not
> going to change anyones mind who knows of the conspiracy,

I see no reason why that should prevent me from ridiculing them.

> there is way
> to much evidence for you to overcome with your "wit"

Yah, and it points to Oswald.

> ya got no answers
> therefore
> you got no clue

I`m hoping you can provide me with one.

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 7:58:56 AM3/5/07
to
i dont need to explain anyting to you stupid, i can see whats plainly
in front of my face.
keep waiting maybe someday you will realize your a moron for not seing
it sooner, and that you took up the cause for murderers.
"why didnt someone speak up sooner?"..............THEY DID AND GOT
MURDERED TOO
"we need a majick sooter?" ............. no you dont need anyting with
the CIA covering your arse.
"why arent the kennedy family seeking justice?" ............Becaue
they all are MURDERED TOO
stupid dirtbags

> > > > > > > >>http://community.webtv.net/ccwallace/CaseWideOpenAJFK-Hidequotedtext -

David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 8:03:55 AM3/5/07
to
>>> "If you dont think that majick [sic; LOL] bullet is evidence enough for conspiracy....then what will?" <<<

Well, for starters, it'd be nice if YOU (or any CTer) could provide
the world with some kind of logical and reasonable and believable anti-
SBT alternative to replace the SBT scenario of how those 2 men were
wounded in Dallas.

Can you do that, Luthier?

IOW -- What is your shot-by-shot scenario for the shooting event that
did occur on 11/22/63. (The men WERE wounded, you know. The evil Govt.
didn't just make up that part of the "story".)

I've yet to see a reasonable anti-SBT scenario that holds any water at
all. Maybe you've got the first one, Mr. Luthier. Give it a try. And
try to stay within at least 50% of the actual, verified evidence in
the case please. Guesswork about "planted" bullets and swept-under-the-
rug fragments, etc., just isn't gonna cut the muster I'm afraid.

You're going to have a hard time coming up with an anti-SBT theory,
however, that has bullet holes in the victims (which aren't "fake",
those holes are real) which almost perfectly align themselves with the
SBT scenario.

But good luck anyway.

~~Awaiting Luthier's Anti-SBT Brilliance~~

In the interim, here's some more SBT common sense:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/e06a29392572c072

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bed05a055b2f4133

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/741a872f58796bfe

Walt

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 8:05:58 AM3/5/07
to
On 4 Mar, 01:15, "luthier4l...@yahoo.com" <luthier4l...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> > >>http://community.webtv.net/ccwallace/CaseWideOpenAJFK-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Luthier, You da man..... Give em hell. Your posts show more clear
thinking and commonsense than I've seen here in a long time.

Walt

luthie...@yahoo.com

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 8:16:06 AM3/5/07
to
If your lookin for paperwork.............it got shredded in the
circular file after it was classified, and just like kennedy's brain,
when comes time to release that, it will "get lost" and everybody who
cant accept the murder for what it was, will go............."oh well"
meanwhile back at the ranch......... they all laugh at you cause your
a moron. you need to watch JFK more carefully and actually ask
yourself those most important questions that mr X asked, you know, its
there, you just dont want to believe or accept that they are
monsters.......foreign government destroyers, assassinators, money
laundering, mafia connected, drug running, money hungry powerminds.
someday you will wake up and if you dont, so sad too bad.

David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 9:06:52 AM3/5/07
to
>>> "If your lookin for paperwork..." <<<

I'm merely looking for a reasonable, believable anti-SBT
theory...which is exactly what I said I was looking for from CTers
(but never locating). Wonder why that is?

The next kook observation (replete with hideous grammar and spelling)
is......

>>> "when comes time to release that, it will "get lost" and everybody who cant accept the murder for what it was, will go............."oh well"..." <<<

Yep. Kooky alright.

Next....

>>> "meanwhile back at the ranch.....they all laugh at you cause your a moron. you need to watch JFK more carefully..." <<<

That seals the deal right there, my CT-loving kook. A reference to
Oliver Stone's fantasy flick. I suspected as much from you. You've
watched Ollie's picture and it has convinced you that a conspiracy
existed in Dallas...right?

That very scenario (i.e., people being sucked into the vacuum of
Stone's and Garrison's inane "plot" via the motion-picture screen) is
why Vincent Bugliosi MUST systematically take apart that film (from an
HISTORICAL standpoint) within VB's book "Reclaiming History".

Stone's "JFK" is entertainment of a sort, yes. I, myself, love the
John Williams music score and the great-looking 2.35:1 Anamorphic
Widescreen image that can be found on my 2-Disc DVD edition of the
film -- but the "PATSY PLOT" that resides within those 3+ hours of
story-telling is utterly PREPOSTEROUS.

Can't even YOU, Luthier, step back from the movie screen for a minute
and ask yourself: "WHY WOULD ANYONE EVER PRE-PLAN A CRAZY PLOT LIKE
THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE?" (Not to mention the other obvious question
that watchers of that film should be asking: "HOW ON EARTH COULD THIS
PLOT HAVE SUCCEEDED?")

Per Ollie Stone's flick, Lee Harvey Oswald was supposedly being SET UP
(in ADVANCE!) to take the lone fall for BOTH the Kennedy and Tippit
murders....and yet the three "real assassins" (complete with helpers
by their sides, all of whom fade into history without causing a
ripple) shoot up Dealey Plaza from 3 directions and with SIX rifle
shots....even though Patsy Oswald could only have gotten off three.

Make any sense? Even to a lifelong CTer?

More......

http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/discussions/start-thread.html/ref=cm_rdp_dp/002-2065385-6525668?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0000CDL93&authorID=A1FDW1SPYKB354&store=yourstore&reviewID=R1ZW3QU49S1AM1&displayType=ReviewDetail


>>> "and actually ask yourself those most important questions that mr X asked..." <<<

Oh, you mean the stuff asked by the guy ("Mr. X") who never really
existed? THAT guy, you mean? The made-up guy who was supposedly privy
to all kinds of "insider" information about the assassination...EVEN
THOUGH THE MAN NEVER REALLY EXISTED AT ALL?

Next.....


>>> "foreign government destroyers, assassinators, money laundering, mafia connected, drug running, money hungry powerminds." <<<

Don't leave out "Military Industrial Complex", "LBJ did it", "RFK's
killing was a plot", "Cuba offed Kennedy", and "Professor Plum In The
Depository With A Mauser".

Those things deserve headlines too, ya know.

>>> "some day you will wake up and if you dont, so sad too bad." <<<

The next thing I want to hear you say is: OSWALD DIDN'T SHOOT TIPPIT.

If you can say that, you will have earned your "Mega-Kook Badge". For,
believing that Oswald was innocent of murdering Officer Tippit is THE
biggest sign of "CT Kook Disease" that there is. And it's the quickest
way to spot you kooks for what you are -- i.e., people who WANT a
conspiracy to exist in the JFK case.

Do you want to go for Mega-Kook status?

Walt

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 9:09:27 AM3/5/07
to
On 5 Mar, 05:39, "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:


Luthier....when ya get em wimpering like DVP does here, you can be
sure you've got em by the short hair. If you weren't scoring solid
hits on the bullseye, they wouldn't bother to respond to you.

Many of us in this NG learned a long time ago that a person can gauge
the effectiveness of his post by the response it receives from the
Warren Commission apologists. The more truthful the post.... the
louder they cry.


Walt

Walt

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 10:00:10 AM3/5/07
to

Hey, Von pea Brain.....Thank you.

This post epitomizes the arrogance and contempt you Lner's hold for
your "inferiors". I believe that you KNOW that Luthier is speaking
truth and commonsense, but you're paid to pretend that you accept the
big lie of LBJ's Warren Commission.
You seem to be somewhat intelligent, so the FACTS couldn't possibly
have escaped your grasp. How much does Mc Adams pay you to be his
pimp?? I hope it's an amount that makes it worth-while to appear to
be an idiot.
Perhaps Luthier isn't an accomplished typist, and he has some trouble
with spelling.....so what?? There's nothing wrong with his ability to
reason. In that department you don't begin to measure up to him.
You may think you're superior, but Luthier just kicked your ass and
you're too damned arrogant to know it.

Walt

David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 10:46:58 AM3/5/07
to
You're preaching to the wrong side, Walt.

No way "Luthier" is any CTer. He's a "pretender" for sure. Because
nobody can be that stupid (and, more significantly, nobody could
legitimately WANT to sound that stupid). (Except maybe some guy named
Walt.)

David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 10:47:18 AM3/5/07
to
>>> "This post epitomizes the arrogance and contempt you Lner's hold for your "inferiors"." <<<

Good job at catching that, Walt. I thought my "arrogance" and
"contempt" might have gone over the CTers' heads. Glad to see it
didn't in this instance. ;)

>>> "I believe that you KNOW that Luthier is speaking truth and common sense..." <<<

Well, chalk another one of your "beliefs" up in the "WALT'S WRONG"
column.

>>> "The FACTS couldn't possibly have escaped your grasp." <<<

You're right, the "FACTS" haven't escaped my grasp. The FACT is: Lee
Oswald killed 2 men in '63.

Oh...wait...you meant YOUR "facts", right Walt?

E.G.: "Facts" like:

Brennan DESCRIBING a window on the west side of the TSBD...even though
there's not a HINT of such a description in his WC testimony. In fact,
just the opposite.

And the "fact" of Oswald being set up as a "patsy" for BOTH the
Kennedy & Tippit killings.

Are those the "facts" I should be "grasping", Walt?

Come on, Walt....can't you see the untenable nature of those CT
scenarios you are advocating? Tell the truth....those "plots" are
crazy, aren't they? And do professional "Patsy Framers" usually engage
in "crazy"-sounding plots?

Fess up...you don't believe in such Oliver Stone-theorized junk any
more than I do....do you?


>>> "How much does McAdams pay you to be his pimp?" <<<

Just the standard "Disinfo" rates. I should be getting a raise in 2008
though (if this silly forum still exists at all in a post-"Reclaiming
History" environment...which would really be silly indeed).

>>> "I hope it's an amount that makes it worthwhile to appear to be an idiot." <<<

Please provide a single instance where DVP appeared to be "an idiot".
I must have missed those posts.

Anyway, I'm getting most of my meal money from VB. He's no cheapskate
either.


>>> "Perhaps Luthier isn't an accomplished typist, and he has some trouble with spelling.....so what?" <<<

Nothing major. It's just one more reason to ridicule the typist. I put
some pride in my posts....and couldn't bear posting such illiterate
messages....no matter if it's here, Amazon, or wherever it might be.

At first blush, it appears to me as if "Luthier" is deliberately
misspelling words just to get a reaction. I could be wrong...he might
be THAT illiterate. Hard to tell at this early point in his "career".


>>> "There's nothing wrong with his ability to reason." <<<

"Reason" like a kook, you mean? On that point, I agree with you. ;)

>>> "In that department you don't begin to measure up to him." <<<

Where's that "LOL" smiley thingy when you need it?!


>>> "You may think you're superior, but Luthier just kicked your ass and you're too damned arrogant to know it." <<<

Now I need the "ROFL" icon! Quick...somebody get me one!

Walt

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 12:32:55 PM3/5/07
to


I love this, Von pea brain ... Above, you claim that you think that
Lithier is a fraud, but then you revert to treating him as if he's
legitimate.

> Nothing major. It's just one more reason to ridicule the typist. I put
> some pride in my posts....and couldn't bear posting such illiterate
> messages....no matter if it's here, Amazon, or wherever it might be.

I put some pride in my posts....and couldn't bear posting such
illiterate messages.

Once again you show your true colors ..... ( mostly yellow) Of
superiority, and arrogance. You think that if your posts are
grammatically correct, and you use your spell check, that you'll
appear to be intellectually superior to the lowly unwashed CT's. I
doubt that you know this but you're an excellent example of the
elitists who spew their garbage from Washington D.C.and the News Rooms
of New York.

Walt

David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 1:30:08 PM3/5/07
to
>>> "Above, you claim that you think that Lithier [sic] is a fraud, but then you revert to treating him as if he's legitimate." <<<

Yes, I know that. I was just covering all bases (just in case he
really IS that stupid). Why waste a good pro-LN argument, right?

Next.....

>>> "You think that if your posts are grammatically correct, and you use your spell check, that you'll appear to be intellectually superior to the lowly unwashed CT's." <<<

Once more, Mr. Kook makes a mountain out of an anthill. For, a well-
constructed post, sans any useful info within it, is not very helpful,
is it?

The pride I take in my JFK posts is based on multiple
things....including construction, context, and FACTUAL data. Which is
something sorely lacking from the CT side of the aisle. (Guesswork
does not = Factual data. Sorry.)

>>> "I doubt that you know this, but you're an excellent example of the elitists who spew their garbage..." <<<

I doubt Walt knows the following either -- he doesn't have a leg to
stand on re. the CT-spewing garbage he spouts perpetually.....and I
don't give a damn if he HAS actually seen Robert Studebaker's notebook
re. Bob's exact # of photos he took on 11/22 and exactly what time he
took them (assuming such material actually exists somewhere in the
first place....Walt, any chance of showing us that data, btw?).

Walt

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 1:47:16 PM3/5/07
to
On 5 Mar, 12:30, "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Above, you claim that you think that Lithier [sic] is a fraud, but then you revert to treating him as if he's legitimate." <<<
>
> Yes, I know that. I was just covering all bases (just in case he
> really IS that stupid). Why waste a good pro-LN argument, right?
>
> Next.....
>
> >>> "You think that if your posts are grammatically correct, and you use your spell check, that you'll appear to be intellectually superior to the lowly unwashed CT's." <<<
>
> Once more, Mr. Kook makes a mountain out of an anthill. For, a well-
> constructed post, sans any useful info within it, is not very helpful,
> is it?

>
> The pride I take in my JFK posts is based on multiple
> things....including construction, context, and FACTUAL data. Which is
> something sorely lacking from the CT side of the aisle. (Guesswork
> does not = Factual data. Sorry.)

Von Pea brain wrote:
The pride I take in my JFK posts is based on.... FACTUAL data.

Are you referring to the impossible Single Bullet THEORY??... Is
that what you mean by... "FACTUAL data"

You are smart enough to realize that the whole case from the LNER's
point of view, is BASED on that impossible THEORY aren't you?? If
that silly impossible THEORY is removed your whole case collapses.


Walt
Walt

David Von Pein

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 1:53:22 PM3/5/07
to
The SBT is the best version of the shooting. Period. Nothing else
comes even close, given the totality of the evidence favoring the
SBT's likelihood.

Why CTers cannot see the logic of the SBT is their problem...not the
LNers' problem.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/e06a29392572c072

Bud

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 2:32:23 PM3/5/07
to

luthie...@yahoo.com wrote:
> i dont need to explain anyting to you stupid, i can see whats plainly
> in front of my face.

That would be the walls of your ass.

> keep waiting maybe someday you will realize your a moron for not seing
> it sooner, and that you took up the cause for murderers.

You mean I can join the kook club? Really?

> "why didnt someone speak up sooner?"..............THEY DID AND GOT
> MURDERED TOO

Aren`t you afraid they`ll come for you? Better change the
combination to your thermos.

> "we need a majick sooter?" ............. no you dont need anyting with
> the CIA covering your arse.
> "why arent the kennedy family seeking justice?" ............Becaue
> they all are MURDERED TOO
> stupid dirtbags

They can hit the nimble ones, but can`t hit fat, bloated Teddy?

<SNIP>