CE399's Chain Of Possession

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David Von Pein

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Oct 5, 2007, 6:34:29 PM10/5/07
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A CONSPIRACY THEORIST SAID:

>>> "The chain of evidence {for Bullet CE399} is just laughable! You believe it if you wish -- it could never even have been admitted at trial!" <<<

DVP:

The chain of possession (or "chain of custody") is just fine for
Bullet CE399 (and for all the other Oswald-implicating evidence in the
JFK case). You surely don't think that just because civilians touched
some of the evidence before the cops got ahold of it, that makes it
worthless and inadmissible in court, do you?

CE399 has a clear chain of possession -- From Tomlinson, to Wright, to
Johnsen, to Rowley, to Todd, to Frazier.

A prosecutor (such as my favorite lawyer/author Vincent Bugliosi), at
the trial (had there been one), would have simply called the above-
referenced individuals to the witness stand in order to establish the
"chain" (which certainly would have been established without a shred
of a doubt).

Mr. Bugliosi, at the Oswald "TV Docu-Trial" in 1986 (which did adhere
to REAL rules of evidence and court procedures, even though it wasn't
an actual trial), in fact did (in essence) establish the admissibility
of Stretcher Bullet CE399 in a courtroom setting, which occurred
during the questioning of witness Vincent Guinn, when Bugliosi listed
the official pieces of evidence that Dr. Guinn examined for the HSCA,
including CE399 and one of the two large bullet fragments found in the
front seat of the limousine.

Later in Guinn's Mock Trial testimony, we have this exchange:

BUGLIOSI -- "What you're saying is that from your Neutron Activation
Analysis, there may have been fifty people firing at President Kennedy
that day....but if there were, they all missed....ONLY bullets fired
from Oswald's Carcano rifle hit the President. Is that correct?"

GUINN -- "That's a correct statement; yes."

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/b3a8181c73cfa095

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David Von Pein

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Oct 6, 2007, 8:49:01 PM10/6/07
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MORE "THREE-NINER-NINER" TALK............

================================

BULLET CE399 -- WAS IT "PLANTED" IN PARKLAND HOSPITAL?:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/84689b600ce41d68

TOO MANY CE399 BULLET FRAGMENTS IN JOHN CONNALLY? HARDLY:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7bf79593cce78406

IF BULLET CE399 DIDN'T INJURE GOVERNOR CONNALLY, WHAT BULLET DID?:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f90802d6225a380e

robc...@netscape.com

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Oct 8, 2007, 2:09:59 PM10/8/07
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rom: " Robert Caprio" <robc...@netscape.com>


Reply-To: <robc...@netscape.com>


To: <DaveV...@aol.com>


Subject: Re: CE399's Chain Of Possession


Date: Mon 10/8/07 02:01 PM

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Firsts things first Dave. How come my post wasn't showing up on the
board? I hit reply and it indicated that it was successful but I
didn't see it. Thanks for the help on that.

Now for the other stuff... Dave, I've been reading about this stuff
for 20 years and I have a background in commnunications so I don't
believe everythings I'm told verbatim. I agree with you that there
are a lot of people with wacky or crazy angles on what happened, but
none is as crazy as LHO did it alone!! Come on, you seem pretty
intelligent (based on the posts I've read) so how can you explain all
the things that have happened in this case and say LHO did it? Did
LHO change the parade route at the last minute in violation of the
Secret Service manual? Why did LHO go to all the effort of killing a
president and then deny it unlike every other assassin in history?
Usually these are done for causes and they want the world to know why
the cause has done it, not deny it. To save his hide? You don't kill
a leader of a major country and then think you will get away (unless
of course you have powerful people helping you) so LHO would have
known he would be caught when he did the deed. Why 12 hours of
interviews with the FBI and police yet there isn't a single note on
what was discussed? This violates police regulations in every city
and state in the union. Why did multiple people pose as LHO before
the assassination and draw attention to themselves? Don't take my
work as Hoover himself sent out a memo on this topic. Why were
clothes laundered, cars cleaned before any official investigation
started? Could LHO do that by himself? Why lock up everything for so
many years - 2039 - if just one deranged man did this? National
security? Come on.

No Dave, just too many things that don't make common sense to me to
believe your theory, and by the way, that is all your version is - a
theory. Never proven in a court of law. Disputed by a second
congressional body (HSCA). Just a misguided theory to calm everyone
in America. Besides Dave, you should love these discussions as this
is a free country and everyone doesn't have to believe everythings
they are told by their government verbatim. I think a citizen in a
free country is supposed to question and educate themselves. Why do
all you offical theory buffs not get that?

I don't care what they claim they tested as the head of the Army's
testing grounds did the same tests and said it was impossible. Common
sense again says no bullet can do this. BUT wait!!! We still have
CE399 don't we. Let's test it again. If it can do it once, why not
twice, right? Lets use it to do seven major wounds in tough material
(animals bones and ligaments) and see what happens. It will settle it
once and for all, right? Makes sense to me. How come it has not been
done? Because any person with common sense and a knowledge of
ballistics will tell you it is crap. You believe what you want, but
you can't tell me what to think.

Thanks for your help.

--- DaveV...@aol.com wrote:

From: DaveV...@aol.com
To: robc...@netscape.com
Subject: Re: CE399's Chain Of Possession
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:37:58 EDT

In a message dated 10/7/2007 12:08:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
robc...@netscape.com writes:


What's to explain? How about the law of Physics? How can a bullet
cause seven major wounds in two human beings and not have any major
damage? Please. You should be selling swampland in Florida if you
believe that could happen. Also, maybe you missed that Ford admitted
they changed the bullet wound in the back of neck from where it really
occured, the right shoulder blade area. Case dismissed. If the
bullet did not enter where Specter/Ford said it did you can have no
magic bullet theory. Emphasis on theory.

~~Yawn~~

I'm so sick of explaining this shit to people like you, who insist on
believing CT myths that were debunked decades ago.

It's all explained in my many SBT articles (with appropriate
citations) in the Blog I mailed earlier. (And fully explained--and
THEN some--in "Reclaiming History" too.)

And the 2004 SBT test done in Australia proves beyond any doubt that a
FMJ/WCC/MC bullet just like 399 can go through 2 bodies, do a lot of
bony damage and--voila!--emerge LOOKING LIKE THIS.

How 'bout that? I wonder how the Australian team managed that intact,
round-nosed bullet AFTER the SBT test if the SBT is completely
impossible and a piece-of-shit fantasy?

Do some research, Rob. Follow the evidence trail (which all leads to
only Oswald's doorstep)....and stop believing every kooky conspiracy
theory that's being peddled out there.

lazu...@webtv.net

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Oct 8, 2007, 4:59:16 PM10/8/07
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How can it be that the WC states that FBI agent Bardwell Odum showed CE
399 to Tomlinson, and that Tomlinson agreed that this bullet
"resembled" the one he found, yet Odum denies not only talking to
Tomlinson, but even handling the bullet?!!
My lie detector tells me that somebody is lying, and it ain't
Odum.------Old Laz

Gil Jesus

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Oct 8, 2007, 5:31:28 PM10/8/07
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Your lie detector works pretty good. Tomlinson told Josiah Thompson
that CE399 was NOT the bullet he found on the stretcher. In addition,
Tomlinson said that the stretcher the bullet fell from wasn't even
Governor Connally's !!!

Here's the video to prove it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA68-rlXVIY

The whole CE399-was-found-on-a-stretcher-at-Parkland-Hospital story is
a lie.

Ben Holmes

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Oct 8, 2007, 5:54:32 PM10/8/07
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In article <1191866999.0...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
robc...@netscape.com says...

Hate to tell you, but you're asking questions of a troll.

DVP will *NEVER* answer your questions... he can't.

In fact, he refuses to support his own words when it's pointed out that he's
factually wrong. You're most likely trying to deal with a professional writer.

Pamela McElwain-Brown

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Oct 8, 2007, 6:59:23 PM10/8/07
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On Oct 5, 5:34 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> The chain of possession (or "chain of custody") is just fine for
> Bullet CE399 (and for all the other Oswald-implicating evidence in the
> JFK case). You surely don't think that just because civilians touched
> some of the evidence before the cops got ahold of it, that makes it
> worthless and inadmissible in court, do you?

Surely you are missing the point here. Chain of evidence starts from
the time the shot was fired. If the bullet hit either JFK or JBC, it
would have to have been extracted from, or at least witnessed falling
from one man's body or the other. Once you start talking about COE
for CE 399 from the stretchers in the hallway you are about two jumps
away from its being valid evidence.

David Von Pein

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Oct 9, 2007, 12:38:14 AM10/9/07
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>>> "If the bullet hit either JFK or JBC, it would have to have been extracted from, or at least witnessed falling from one man's body or the other. Once you start talking about COE for CE 399 from the stretchers in the hallway you are about two jumps away from its being valid evidence." <<<


I can only assume that Pamela is merely being humorous here....for,
she cannot possibly be serious re. the above nonsense about CE399.

Since we know there were ZERO bullets "extracted" from JFK's body or
JBC's body which could account for the "SBT"-like wounding that each
man suffered on Nov. 22.....and since we have a bullet in the hospital
where the victims were taken (a bullet which was positively fired from
a gun that was found in the building from which shots were undeniably
fired at the limo when the limo was driving by said location)....then
the "two jumps" that you're referring to, Pam, are jumps that ANY sane
person would logically make. These "jumps"----

1.) Bullet came out of Oswald's gun on 6th Floor of TSBD and went
through the bodies of JFK & JBC.

2.) That same bullet came out of JBC's body between DP and the time
JBC was taken off his stretcher at PH, falling onto his stretcher
where it was later found by a hospital employee.

(Tell me you were just kidding when you wrote your post above, Pam.
You WERE merely having a bit of a giggle, now, weren't you? Surely.)

David Von Pein

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Oct 9, 2007, 12:47:41 AM10/9/07
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www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/ab91b51ecdae5f21

>>> "Come on, you seem pretty intelligent (based on the posts I've read), so how can you explain all the things that have happened in this case and say LHO did it?" <<<


ALL of the physical evidence says that "LHO did it". And almost all of
the circumstantial evidence says "LHO did it" (and almost certainly
"alone", too).

You must have only skimmed Vincent Bugliosi's new JFK Bible,
"Reclaiming History", Rob. Or perhaps you haven't looked at the first
page of it as yet. But pretty much every conspiracy theory and nuance
surrounding the whole case IS accounted for in that book and the
attached CD-ROM disc.

Yes, some CTers think that Vince should have travelled to the ends of
the Earth to FIND that elusive, magical "conspiracy" that those
conspiracists have been seeking to uncover and confirm for 40+ years.

I guess Vincent's 21 years of wading through the tripe put forth by
people like Lifton, Lane, Marrs, Armstrong, Vary-Baker, O'Donnell,
Groden, Garrison, Stone, Horne, Livingstone, Donahue, Waldron (and
many other conspiracy authors that VB debunks in his mega-tome) just
isn't going far enough to beat back the idea of a "plot" in the JFK
case.

How many more years, and how many additional thousands of pages would
you have recommended Bugliosi use up in order to arrive at the "Whole
Truth" with respect to the events surrounding the death of the 35th
U.S. President? Another 21 years? (Vince will be 94 by that time.)

Read "Reclaiming History" (ALL of it (including the very important
conspiracy-bashing stuff on the CD-ROM)....it's a book which proves
Oswald's guilt beyond any doubt whatsoever. (And very likely his LONE
guilt as well.)

www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showpost.php?p=3200858


>>> "Did LHO change the parade route at the last minute in violation of the Secret Service manual?" <<<


Oh, for Pete (Rob) sake! You cannot possibly still believe in this
craziness about the motorcade route being "changed at the last
minute", can you?

It simply did not happen. Period. There was no last-minute change of
the route. By "last minute", I assume you mean the route being change
ON NOVEMBER 22ND ITSELF, correct? Or maybe November 21st? Well, in
either case, there's proof that it was never changed "at the last
minute" at all, because the route the limo took through Dealey Plaza
was the EXACT SAME ROUTE that was announced in the two Dallas
newspapers THREE DAYS before the assassination.

Here's more (including the WC exhibits showing the November 19th
Dallas papers, which provide the details of the "Main to Houston to
Elm" turns, plain as day):

www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/fbacd51dfe2f074c


>>> "Why did LHO go to all the effort of killing a president and then deny it, unlike every other assassin in history?" <<<


Nobody can possibly know with 100% certainty what was going through
the head and mind of a kook/screwball/nuthatch like Lee Harvey Oswald
in the days and minutes leading up to 12:30 on November 22.

Nor can we know exactly why Oswald did what the EVIDENCE SAYS HE *DID*
DO (i.e., kill John F. Kennedy with Mannlicher-Carcano rifle #C2766).
Because, unfortunately, Oswald wasn't kind enough (in the 47+ hours he
was alive following his arrest) to fill in every single "blank" on
that "Why Did You Do It?" questionnaire.

But if you want to read some more about Oswald's motive(s) and what I
think his pre-assassination mindset was probably like, I can offer up
these articles linked below:

LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S MOTIVES FOR KILLING PRESIDENT KENNEDY:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/66803e710380d800


BOOK REVIEW -- "OSWALD'S GAME" BY JEAN DAVISON:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9c2238388f0a72c3


NOVEMBER 22, 1963 -- A LEE HARVEY OSWALD "TIMELINE":
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3a3d654f3c43ed16


EVERYTHING LEE HARVEY OSWALD DID ON 11/22/63 SAYS "I'M GUILTY!":
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8845d85a86407d31


LEE "I COULDN'T CARE LESS" OSWALD:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/99273e0516a90afe

>>> "Why 12 hours of {LHO} interviews with the FBI and police, yet there isn't a single note on what was discussed? This violates police regulations in every city and state in the union." <<<


Of course, there are SEVERAL "notes" about what was discussed in those
12 hours. So why you're saying "there isn't a single note on what was
discussed" between Oswald and the police is anyone's guess. But there
are the handwritten notes taken by Will Fritz, and James Hosty's notes
too (which still exist and can be examined).

But you must be talking about a detailed transcript or a tape
recording of Oswald's words and statements made to the police, right
Rob?

But, even there, evidently the fact that Oswald's words weren't being
transcribed in some manner didn't violate any regulations in the
Dallas Police Department, circa 1963, per Homicide & Robbery Captain
John Will Fritz......

JOSEPH BALL -- "Did you have any tape recorder?"

CAPTAIN J.W. FRITZ -- "No, sir; I don't have a tape recorder. We need
one, if we had one at this time we could have handled these
conversations far better."

MR. BALL -- "The Dallas Police Department doesn't have one?"

CAPTAIN FRITZ -- "No, sir; I have requested one several times but so
far they haven't gotten me one."

~~~~~~

Addendum......

Can a CTer come up with ONE case that was investigated by the Dallas
Police Department prior to 11/22/63 where an arrested suspect's
statements were proven to have been tape recorded or even transcribed
by a stenographer, word-for-word?

Has ANYONE ever even tried to come up with one such pre-JFK
assassination DPD case? If so, I've yet to hear about such a
discovery. And if the DPD had a normal HABIT of not recording or
transcribing the verbatim words of suspects in their custody (which
certainly appears to be the case, per J.W. Fritz' WC testimony), then
why is there a particular beef with the DPD for not recording Lee
Harvey Oswald's words in November 1963?

I, too, think it would have been very nice to have Oswald ON TAPE
telling his string of lies that he told to the authorities after his
arrest. That would be fabulous to have such recordings of Oswald
digging his own LN grave, IMO.

Just look at how O.J. Simpson buried himself when he opened up to the
LAPD on audio tape the day after he butchered two people in 1994.
We've got 32 minutes of Simpson telling the world--in his own voice--
of how he was "dripping blood" from a cut on his hand on the very same
night of the two murders he was charged with committing.

And we've got the added pleasure of hearing Simpson--on that same
tape--telling the police that he had "no idea" how he cut himself (a
fairly-deep cut too) less than 24 hours earlier.

As Mr. Bugliosi said in his excellent 12-hour video series about the
O.J. case ("Absolutely 100% Guilty") -- "Give me a yellow pad and 100
hours, and I would have convicted Simpson on the basis of that 32-
minute police interview ALONE."

www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/discussions/start-thread.html/ref=cm_rdp_dp/105-4913190-2911629?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0008IXD08&authorID=A1FDW1SPYKB354&store=yourstore&reviewID=RGA2WFXGVXCCJ&displayType=ReviewDetail

But, unfortunately, we don't have any such recordings or
transcriptions when it comes to Lee Harvey Oswald's interrogations
with the authorities in '63; so we must deal with that fact and move
on.


>>> "Why did multiple people pose as LHO before the assassination and draw attention to themselves?" <<<


If I have my chronology of "Myth" numbers accurate, I believe this is
Conspiracy Myth #48. Nothing like that ever happened, regardless of J.
Edgar's beliefs on this matter.

Hoover was wrong about several things, of course, in the early stages
of the FBI's investigation into the assassination; just have a look-
see......

www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7835a5f11f2d5dcd

In any event, the "Imposter Oswald" stories are covered very well and
in-depth in Vince Bugliosi's book (the book every CTer feels the need
to attempt to rip to shreds, which, of course, was to be expected from
the day it hit bookstore shelves on May 15, 2007).

In fact, Vince uses up 36 pages in "Reclaiming History" to talk
exclusively about the "Imposter Oswald" silliness. Those thirty-six
pages comprise all of Chapter #20, which is entitled "The Second
Oswald". Several references to that chapter are found in Part 3 of my
"RH" book review here:

www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showpost.php?p=3200862

But, CTers will probably just ignore the fact that Mr. Bugliosi (and
many other LN researchers prior to him) have discussed the silly
"Oswald Imposter" allegations at great length.

But the fact will still remain that there has not been a single
substantiated instance of an "Oswald Imposter"--ever. Not one. It's
all a bunch of nonsense, coming from people who think they might have
seen Oswald here and there and everywhere prior to November 22nd. A
very common phenomenon after a high-profile murder, as we all know.

And some of the "Oswald" sightings even include sightings of LHO in
locations where we KNOW Oswald could never have been located on the
dates provided by the witnesses who said they saw "Oswald" there.


>>> "Why were clothes laundered, cars cleaned before any official investigation started?" <<<

And to believe that anything of a "conspiratorial" nature was
occurring with regard to those things you mentioned (i.e., John
Connally's clothes being cleaned and the limousine being wiped out at
Parkland Hospital)....you would have no choice but to include NELLIE
CONNALLY as a prime "plotter" or "cover-up agent".

Because it was NELLIE who washed some of her husband's clothes just
after the assassination. Was Nellie "covering up" something that she
didn't want anyone to find out about? That's just stupid.

And the so-called "limo wipe down" (as some people call it) is also
discussed openly by VB in his JFK book. In fact, it's Vince's opinion
that there really WASN'T a "limo wipe down" at all. And he makes a
good point for that being true, too.

A Parkland nurse was told by someone in authority (an FBI man or a
Secret Service agent, I forget which it was right now, but VB has it
documented in his book) to take some cleaning materials out to the
limousine. But she got busy with other things in the hectic hospital
and she ended up never gathering those cleaning items and never took
them out to the car.

Now, yes, we definitely can see a bucket sitting on the pavement
beside the limo at Parkland's emergency entrance. There's no question
about that. So, SOMEBODY must have fetched a bucket from the hospital
and carried it out to the car. (I guess it wasn't the original person
who was asked to do this; but, anyway, someone must have done it.)

However, I don't know if we can determine if any FBI agent or SS agent
(or whoever) actually took a sponge or cloth and wiped any blood out
of the limousine at all.

I'm in the "undecided" category regarding the proverbial "Limo Wipe
Down" subject. I'm just not sure what happened there with that bucket
on November 22nd. I tend to lean toward somebody wiping up some of the
gore from the back seat, since there's not really another very good
explanation for this bucket being where it is next to the limousine at
that time......

http://www.k12.nf.ca/gc/SocialStudies/whist3201/World%20History/MMartin/hospthp.jpg

But there's one thing for sure -- If a "limo wipe down" did occur, it
was certainly NOT part of some wide-sweeping plot to cover up the
evidence in the President's murder. No way. No how.

Why?

Because of this common-sense question/observation -- Would a group of
conspirators and/or cover-up agents actually have the gonads to wipe
out the limo (within the context of a PRE-ARRANGED COVER-UP) while in
full view of many witnesses and CAMERAS who were potentially
documenting their shady, conspiratorial activity?!

That's just plain nuts!

>>> "Why lock up everything for so many years--{until the year} 2039--if just one deranged man did this? National security? Come on." <<<


The Warren Commission didn't "lock up" the records and files. The
National Archives did that. It was a NATIONAL ARCHIVES RULE that
certain documents handed over by a Governmental investigative body be
sealed for 75 years. The WC had nothing to do with it. In fact, Earl
Warren expressly asked for COMPLETE DISCLOSURE in his cover letter to
the National Archives.

Allow me to quote Vincent Bugliosi directly on this matter......

"Did {Earl} Warren subsequently order the sealing of great
numbers of Warren Commission documents? Not only didn't he do so, but
instead he and his Commission encouraged the release of all the
records to the American people. ....

"No special handling of Warren Commission documents was invoked
to keep the truth about the assassination from the public. The records
were sealed {for a mandatory 75 years} under a general {National
Archives} policy that applied to all federal investigations by the
executive branch of government. ....

"The belief that any alleged conspirators who plotted Kennedy's
assassination would commit to paper anything that expressly,
obliquely, or in any other way referred to the murderous plot is
ridiculous on its face. ....

"If that were the case, these people would simply destroy these
documents, not leave them in any file. If they were immoral enough to
murder Kennedy, or do whatever they could to cover up for those who
did, surely they would eliminate an incriminating document. ....

"Three things are very clear: First, after an unprecedented and
historic four-year scavenger hunt by the ARRB for all documents
"reasonably related" to the assassination, no smoking gun or even a
smoldering ember of conspiracy was found. The reason is that no such
smoking gun or ember ever existed.

"Second, if it did exist, it would never have been left in any
file for discovery. And finally, assassination researchers and
conspiracy theorists will never be satisfied, not even when the cows
come home." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; Pages 134-137, 140, and 149 of
"Reclaiming History" (CD Endnotes section)


>>> "No Dave, just too many things that don't make common sense to me to believe your theory, and by the way, that is all your version is -- a theory. Never proven in a court of law. Disputed by a second congressional body (HSCA)." <<<


The HSCA totally agrees with me (and VB and the WC) regarding the
NUMBER OF SHOTS THAT STRUCK THE VICTIMS (two), and the HSCA agrees
with the WC (et al) with respect to the identity of the person who
fired those shots that killed the President (Lee Harvey Oswald).

And the HSCA is also in general agreement when it comes to the SBT
too. One bullet positively caused the seven wounds in both Kennedy and
Connally, per both the WC and the HSCA.

The HSCA's "conspiracy" conclusion, of course, has been totally
trashed and completely dismantled in the years since 1979, and
everybody knows it. The Dictabelt stuff has been blown away, time and
time again.....

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/acoustic.htm

http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics.htm

The "Lone Assassin" conclusion is not just a "theory" -- it's a
fact....based on the sum total of all the evidence on the table in the
JFK murder case.


>>> "I don't care what they claim they tested as the head of the Army's testing grounds did the same tests and said it {the SBT} was impossible. .... How come it has not been done?" <<<


It has been done. You have either not seen the 2004 SBT test done in
Australia (and filmed by The Discovery Channel), or you have just
decided to ignore that very impressive "SBT-like" test done in October
2004.

Here's a picture (below) of the test bullet from that 2004 SBT
shooting experiment (the test bullet is in a little worse shape than
CE399, yes; but note its rounded nose after crashing through two mock
torsos/dummies, and note the fact it is completely INTACT, just like
CE399):

http://216.122.129.112/dc/user_files/6735.jpg


More on "JFK: Beyond The Magic Bullet":
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/69758897e673c5a2


And, of course, Dale Myers has pretty much proved (via his "KEY
FRAMING" the Zapruder Film right to his computer animation) the
viability and workability of the Single-Bullet Theory as well. But, I
suppose the standard CTer retort of "It's only a cartoon" is forming
on your lips right now, isn't it?

And many conspiracy theorists will continue to scoff at Mr. Myers'
extensive computer animation work....even though Myers has MERGED and
MELDED his computer model right on top of the ZAPRUDER FILM ITSELF,
FRAME-BY-FRAME, to lock in his model with the real happenings on Elm
Street.

To think that Dale Myers could come anywhere NEAR this close to "SBT
Perfection" with a computer model that has been LOCKED INTO THE Z-FILM
ITSELF, and yet still have CTers coming to the brazen conclusion that
the SBT is a mere pipe dream or a fantasy tale constructed by the
Warren Commission, is an anti-SBT posture that is just too ridiculous
for words.

If the SBT were completely impossible (as almost all CTers believe it
to be), there's no chance that Dale K. Myers could have replicated
such a perfect SBT on a computer (with a bullet trajectory that leads
right straight back to--you guessed it--the center of Oswald's 6th-
Floor window in the Book Depository).

More:
http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/intro.htm


>>> "You believe what you want, but you can't tell me what to think." <<<

And when did I ever do that? All I've done is exactly what Mr.
Bugliosi has done in the massive 2,800 pages of CS&L (Common Sense &
Logic) called "Reclaiming History" -- and that is: try to point out
the many flaws in the thinking of conspiracy theorists....starting
with the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, which leads not toward a multi-gun
conspiracy as almost all CTers believe, but instead leads right to one
lone malcontent who hated America....a malcontent named Lee Harvey
Oswald.

As VB has said many times (and, as usual, he's spot-on accurate) --
"Bullets are very democratic; they kill or injure whoever they hit.
And you don't have to be somebody important to pull a trigger."

And Lee "Nobody Important" Oswald did just that (three times) in
Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963.

Either face that obvious fact....or provide me and the rest of the
waiting world with another bullet of the "Non-C2766" variety.

>>> "Thanks for your help." <<<

Thank you.

www.DavidVonPein.blogspot.com

tomnln

unread,
Oct 9, 2007, 1:16:41 AM10/9/07
to

"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1191905261....@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

>>>> "Why 12 hours of {LHO} interviews with the FBI and police, yet there
>>>> isn't a single note on what was discussed? This violates police
>>>> regulations in every city and state in the union." <<<


> Of course, there are SEVERAL "notes" about what was discussed in those
> 12 hours. So why you're saying "there isn't a single note on what was
> discussed" between Oswald and the police is anyone's guess. But there
> are the handwritten notes taken by Will Fritz, and James Hosty's notes
> too (which still exist and can be examined).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fritz & Hosty LIED.
They both told the Waren Commission they took NO Notes.
They Both produced Notes for the HSCA.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> But you must be talking about a detailed transcript or a tape
> recording of Oswald's words and statements made to the police, right
> Rob?
>
> But, even there, evidently the fact that Oswald's words weren't being
> transcribed in some manner didn't violate any regulations in the
> Dallas Police Department, circa 1963, per Homicide & Robbery Captain
> John Will Fritz......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> JOSEPH BALL -- "Did you have any tape recorder?"

> CAPTAIN J.W. FRITZ -- "No, sir; I don't have a tape recorder. We need
> one, if we had one at this time we could have handled these
> conversations far better."
>
> MR. BALL -- "The Dallas Police Department doesn't have one?"
>
> CAPTAIN FRITZ -- "No, sir; I have requested one several times but so
> far they haven't gotten me one."

Fritz LIED Again;
See diagram of DPD 3rd floor.>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/catch_of_the_day.htm
"Recording Room" Directly across from Fritz'a office.

Not to be confused with Records Room, THAT is down the hall to the left.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

robc...@netscape.com

unread,
Oct 9, 2007, 6:37:12 PM10/9/07
to
> rom: " Robert Caprio" <robcap...@netscape.com>
>
> Reply-To: <robcap...@netscape.com>
>
> To: <DaveVonP...@aol.com>
> --- DaveVonP...@aol.com wrote:

>
> From: DaveVonP...@aol.com
> To: robcap...@netscape.com
> Subject: Re: CE399's Chain Of Possession
> Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:37:58 EDT
>
> In a message dated 10/7/2007 12:08:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>
> robcap...@netscape.com writes:
>
> What's to explain? How about the law of Physics? How can a bullet
> cause seven major wounds in two human beings and not have any major
> damage? Please. You should be selling swampland in Florida if you
> believe that could happen. Also, maybe you missed that Ford admitted
> they changed the bullet wound in the back of neck from where it really
> occured, the right shoulder blade area. Case dismissed. If the
> bullet did not enter where Specter/Ford said it did you can have no
> magic bullet theory. Emphasis on theory.
>
> ~~Yawn~~
>
> I'm so sick of explaining this shit to people like you, who insist on
> believing CT myths that were debunked decades ago.

RDC wrote: Did I type something incorrectly? I don't remember asking
you to explain anything to me Dave. I can think for myself. So knock
off the rude behavior. If you want a discussion I'm happy to oblige,
if not shove it. You say they were debunked, but there are many
medical, criminal and common sense people who say the opposite. Your
blogs are your opinion, nothing more. I just don't share the same
one.


>
> It's all explained in my many SBT articles (with appropriate
> citations) in the Blog I mailed earlier. (And fully explained--and
> THEN some--in "Reclaiming History" too.)
>
> And the 2004 SBT test done in Australia proves beyond any doubt that a
> FMJ/WCC/MC bullet just like 399 can go through 2 bodies, do a lot of
> bony damage and--voila!--emerge LOOKING LIKE THIS.
>
> How 'bout that? I wonder how the Australian team managed that intact,
> round-nosed bullet AFTER the SBT test if the SBT is completely
> impossible and a piece-of-shit fantasy?
>
> Do some research, Rob. Follow the evidence trail (which all leads to
> only Oswald's doorstep)....and stop believing every kooky conspiracy

> theory that's being peddled out there.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


robc...@netscape.com

unread,
Oct 9, 2007, 6:38:25 PM10/9/07
to
On Oct 8, 5:54 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@websitewealthcollege.com> wrote:
> In article <1191866999.092835.219...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> robcap...@netscape.com says...
> >rom: " Robert Caprio" <robcap...@netscape.com>
>
> >Reply-To: <robcap...@netscape.com>
>
> >To: <DaveVonP...@aol.com>
>
> >Subject: Re: CE399's Chain Of Possession
> >Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:37:58 EDT
>
> >In a message dated 10/7/2007 12:08:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> factually wrong. You're most likely trying to deal with a professional writer.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

And maybe something more???? Anybody ever hear of "Operation
Mockingbird"?

robc...@netscape.com

unread,
Oct 9, 2007, 6:42:09 PM10/9/07
to
On Oct 8, 6:59 pm, Pamela McElwain-Brown <pamel...@mindspring.com>
wrote:

> On Oct 5, 5:34 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > The chain of possession (or "chain of custody") is just fine for
> > Bullet CE399 (and for all the other Oswald-implicating evidence in the
> > JFK case). You surely don't think that just because civilians touched
> > some of the evidence before the cops got ahold of it, that makes it
> > worthless and inadmissible in court, do you?

RDC wrote: No, I think the fact that it was never seen to have come
out of JBC or JFK and that it supposedly caused six major wounds and
is pristine is all a good lawyer would have needed to clear LHO.


>
> Surely you are missing the point here. Chain of evidence starts from
> the time the shot was fired. If the bullet hit either JFK or JBC, it
> would have to have been extracted from, or at least witnessed falling
> from one man's body or the other. Once you start talking about COE
> for CE 399 from the stretchers in the hallway you are about two jumps
> away from its being valid evidence.

RDC wrote: No, "evidence" starts from the time it can be linked to the
murder weapon. This is done by finding it in the victim, finding the
victims blood or tissues on it and linking it to the weapon that was
used. None of this was done, so it the chain of custody is all moot
anyway.

Ben Holmes

unread,
Oct 9, 2007, 7:30:35 PM10/9/07
to
In article <1191969505....@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
robc...@netscape.com says...
>And maybe something more???? Anybody ever hear of "Operation
>Mockingbird"?

Interesting! Yes, I knew about it in general, no, I couldn't have put a name to
it.

David Von Pein

unread,
Oct 9, 2007, 7:34:48 PM10/9/07
to
>>> "I can think for myself. So knock off the rude behavior. If you want a discussion I'm happy to oblige, if not shove it." <<<


Point out where I was rude, Rob. I must've missed that.

Your rude response, however, is another matter.

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