Re: Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

This is mostly for Paul and anyone keeping tabs, which is likely very few.

I pretty much sidelined the BSOD computer, but then I saw a 5TB USB drive
on sale for $110 at Costco (plus about $10 sales tax) so I was able to back
up and format the 1TB boot HDD on another machine.

I installed Windows 10 pro 1909 (by accident 'cuz I used the DVD that was
last in the drive thinking it was the new one) and then added the Nvidia
GeForce 210 graphics card, and wham, it BSOD'd on me almost instantly.

So I reformatted the HDD on another machine (I'll do a thread on that later
since the quick-versus-full-versus-true-erase-versus-delete stuff is
detailed).

Then I installed Windows 10 Pro 2004, and was using it for a few days with
no problems, so I decided to put the GeForce 210 card in, and it worked,
but then I installed the drivers, and WhAM! It BSOD'd moments later.

I think I pretty much need to swear off that Nvidia GeForce card, where
this has a graphics output on the motherboard, so it's not really required.

In fact, I don't see a performance hit with or without the graphics card,
but of course, the one thing I don't do is play games on a PC, so, that
would kind of sort of make sense I guess (that I can't notice a performance
difference with or without a graphics card).

Anyway, I just reformatted the HDD again, and will re-install Win10 v2004,
where I'm just checking in to update this thread to completion, as I am
want to do.
--
People helping others, purposefully helpfully, is what Usenet is all about.

[Corvid]

On 07/17/2020 06:27 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> Anyway, I just reformatted the HDD again, and will re-install Win10 v2004,
> where I'm just checking in to update this thread to completion, as I am
> want to do.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/wont

[Arlen Holder]

Thanks "Corvid", the known childish troll, for pointing out a minor typing
error of a single character, where it's interesting that's the _only_ value
you can add to _any_ thread.

I appreciate you pointed out the typo, and, if you were _ever_ purposefully
helpful, I'd know your intentions were meant well, but I've never seen,
in the entire history of Usenet, a _single_ purposefully helpful post
from you, Corvid the troll.
o Not even one.

You've _never_ in your life, Corvid the troll, ever added on-topic value!
o Never.

BTW... the fact I know how to spell it is clear in these many prior posts.

Date: June 11th, 2020
"*As I am wont to do*, I was helping out in this talkingiclock thread"
o Found this speaking time vbs batch script today & figured I'd ask for
advice on how it works and how Windows gadgets work
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/Nv8cJ229qeI/p___CainAgAJ>

Date: May 27th, 2020
"I was searching for new apps to install & test, *as I am wont to do*,
when I ran into untrackme, which itself referred to both nitter
and invidious" as privacy-aware twitter & youtube front ends. "
o Have you been using the Invidious ad-free alternative YouTube front end?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/2MEm34BVAMU/UH7PH1MyAAAJ>

Date: April 13th, 2020
"Therefore, the first thing I did when I saw your post was google the facts,
*as I am wont to do*, which seems to back up your surprising-to-me claim that
Android 9 disables automatic call recording: "
o Call recorder for the UK?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/_Gmo2K4GmeE/8P9mXpTSAAAJ>

Date: February 7th, 2020
"*As I am wont to do*, I've been _testing all the viable suggestions_ for
traffic functionality; but I can't find this Here! app you mentioned."
o Is there a non Google freeware traffic app
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Ve_2cgliiGk/qRyJ79TlBAAJ>

Date: October 2nd, 2019
"Which, I explained, *as I am wont to do*... With facts."
o Confirmed: Windows 10 Setup Now Prevents Local Account Creation
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ry66ZY9Yxq8/JdzZQ1oPAAAJ>
etc.

Now that we've established a one-character typo, what actual technical VALUE
can you, Corvid the troll, _ever_ add to any thread topic, including this one
(which requires adult acumen, not your always-childish trolls)?
--
Two types of people are on Usenet: those who add value & those who can't.

[Big Al]

Now that we're picking on you, it's not "I am want to do" it's "I want to do" Skip the am.

[James Davis]

He said it was a typographical error of one letter, the "a" in "want" should have been an "o" giving "I am wont to do" which is archaic but acceptable language.

[Arlen Holder]

PSA: Sometimes, maybe perhaps, it's a "good thing" to turn off fastboot,
hibernation, and/or sleep in Windows 10.

I've been working, on and off, sporadically, for months on this Windows 10
hardware-related BSOD which often DESTROYS Windows' ability to boot.
o Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware
is the problem?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/u0ay9h777Wg>

For example, I can remove all extraneous hardware from the desktop, and
then re-install Windows 10 from scratch, and invariably, when it BSODs, the
machine might often _never_ reboot successfully after that BSOD.

Why does a BSOD often but not always invariably corrupt the boot records?

I don't know why, but I suspect perhaps maybe a "sudden" BSOD "corrupts"
(somehow?) the hiberfile.sys or memory image or whatever because when I
turned off these three things, the BSOD's remained, but I could boot
afterward.
1. Turn off sleep
2. Turn off hibernation
3. Turn off fastboot

Now, when the machine hits a hardware BSOD, it won't reboot ever from its
own efforts, and it won't reboot even if I shut it down and reboot it
manually - but - if I remove the power cord such that all the LEDs go out
(after a minute or two) on the motherboard - THEN it boots again.

Before I turned off sleep/hibernation/fastboot, it _still_ often wouldn't
ever reboot, even after heroic efforts at a Windows-to-Windows repair.

The other thing I did was make copious system restore points, where I
haven't had to manually utilize them, but I don't know if the system
automatically uses them when it attempts an automatic repair.

In summary, TWO things might possibly save your boot records after a BSOD:
1. Copious system restore points, and/or
2. Turn off hibernation, fastboot, and sleep (I'm not so sure of sleep).

Why?
o I don't know why.

Do you?
--
Usenet is wonderful when everyone pitches in helpfully with knowledge.

[Corvid]

On 08/16/2020 06:26 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> For example, I can remove all extraneous hardware from the desktop,
> and then re-install Windows 10 from scratch, and invariably, when it

> BSODs, the machine might often_never_ reboot successfully after that
> BSOD.

Invariably, it might often never, huh?

I had a Journalism instructor who tried overly hard to impress with his
class textbook. Yep, he wrote one of the books we used. He blew it in
the very first sentence.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 21:10:47 -0700, Corvid wrote:

>> For example, I can remove all extraneous hardware from the desktop,
>> and then re-install Windows 10 from scratch, and invariably, when it
>> BSODs, the machine might often_never_ reboot successfully after that
>> BSOD.
>
> Invariably, it might often never, huh?

I am sorry if the language was too complex, where the main point was the
PSA that turning off the fancy fastboot & hibernation features of Windows
"seems" to have prevented the operating system from chewing itself up.

What happened _before_ I turned off fastboot & hibernation was:
a. The machine would run fine (for days or weeks on end).
b. At some point, it would BSOD (due to an unknown hardware issue).
c. The machine would attempt to reboot forever, after that BSOD.
(each time with a different BSOD message as described earlier)

If I let it reboot on its own, almost all the time it would fail.
(Every once in a while, it would reboot but almost never.)

Even with a manual reboot (using the power switch), it would almost
never reboot successfully.

Even after putting in a Windows 10 DVD and booting off of that, would it
almost never successfully repair the corrupted boot record (using all the
commands to fix the boot records already described in this thread).

In fact, it would _never_ reboot successfully, after that BSOD, until I
turned off the power to the desktop (I generally pull the power cord) and
until I waited for the LED on the motherboard to go out (I have the side
panels removed so I can see inside easily).

Then _sometimes_ after the BSOD, would it reboot - but only then.
o But even so, it almost never rebooted successfully after that.

In contrast to those "almost never" circumstances, so far, it has _always_
rebooted (or fixed the MBR on its own) once I did one simple thing:

I turned off hibernation & fastboot (and sleep).

Now that you know the circumstances, Corvid, in more detail, what can you
say to HELP on the problem set (or do you only play silly childish games)?

[Corvid]

On 08/17/2020 04:04 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 21:10:47 -0700, Corvid wrote:
>
>>> For example, I can remove all extraneous hardware from the
>>> desktop, and then re-install Windows 10 from scratch, and
>>> invariably, when it BSODs, the machine might often_never_ reboot
>>> successfully after that BSOD.
>>
>> Invariably, it might often never, huh?
>
> I am sorry if the language was too complex, where the main point was
> the

The language is nonsense. Your posts are potentially interesting pieces
turned into mind-numbing exercises for the reader. Invariably.

> Now that you know the circumstances, Corvid, in more detail,

I don't.

> what can you say to HELP on the problem set (or do you only play
> silly childish games)?

My instructor's book was surely decent in its first draft, but then he
had to buff it up. That word "help" was too pedestrian, he swapped it
for something that said the same, but elegantly. And so, the intro began
"This book was written to assist the student learn... "

[wasbit]

"Arlen Holder" <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote in message
news:rhf2da$l7n$1...@news.mixmin.net...

> On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 21:10:47 -0700, Corvid wrote:
>

> Snip

>
> What happened _before_ I turned off fastboot & hibernation was:
> a. The machine would run fine (for days or weeks on end).
> b. At some point, it would BSOD (due to an unknown hardware issue).
> c. The machine would attempt to reboot forever, after that BSOD.
> (each time with a different BSOD message as described earlier)
>
> If I let it reboot on its own, almost all the time it would fail.
> (Every once in a while, it would reboot but almost never.)
>
> Even with a manual reboot (using the power switch), it would almost
> never reboot successfully.
>
> Even after putting in a Windows 10 DVD and booting off of that, would it
> almost never successfully repair the corrupted boot record (using all the
> commands to fix the boot records already described in this thread).
>
> In fact, it would _never_ reboot successfully, after that BSOD, until I
> turned off the power to the desktop (I generally pull the power cord) and
> until I waited for the LED on the motherboard to go out (I have the side
> panels removed so I can see inside easily).
>
> Then _sometimes_ after the BSOD, would it reboot - but only then.
> o But even so, it almost never rebooted successfully after that.
>
> In contrast to those "almost never" circumstances, so far, it has _always_
> rebooted (or fixed the MBR on its own) once I did one simple thing:
>
> I turned off hibernation & fastboot (and sleep).
>

That sounds familiar.
I was given a media centre PC with an Intel i3 Gigabyte motherboard which
had failed to boot.
Got it home, turned it on & it booted fine.
Ran it for some time until one day it failed to boot.
I thought I had turned off the power at the wall but some weeks later it
tried to boot.
Next day it booted on it's own & ran fine for several years.

Last month I cloned the Windows drive to allow for a larger SSD.
The machine refused to boot from the new SSD but was fine with the old one.
I installed Windows (8.1) on the new drive using the old product key &
everything has been fine since.

I've asked various people that work on computers & no one has a reasonable
explanation for the cause of the non booting.

--
Regards
wasbit

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:39:19 +0100, wasbit wrote:

> I've asked various people that work on computers & no one has a reasonable
> explanation for the cause of the non booting.

Hi wasbit,

It's always hard to tell if any one setting made a difference, but in my
BSODs, the two factors which _seem_ to cause the most problems are:
a) At the time of BSOD, "something" in the reboot is destroyed, and,
b) The more it reboots on its own, the more it "seems" to be destroyed.

Hence, I just now added a few more "protection" mechanisms, as shown below:

o Disable autostart after updates:
Win+R > %windir%\system32\taskschd.msc /s {ctrl+shft+enter}
Task Scheduler Library > Microsoft > Windows > UpdateOrchestrator
Right click on the task named "Reboot_AC" & click "Disable"

Note: It used to be called just "Reboot", as I recall.

o Disable autostart after crashes:
Win+R > control.exe {ctrl+shift+enter}
View by: Category
System and Security > System > Advanced System Settings
Startup and Recovery > Settings
System failure
CHANGE FROM:
[x]Write an event to the system log
[x]Automically restart
CHANGE TO:
[x]Write an event to the system log
[_]Automically restart
OK > OK

In summary, in this situation where random BSODs destroy the ability of the
Windows machine to boot, what "seems" to help is preventing the machine
from rebooting out of our control.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:
Resetting the BIOS to default plus the settings below, is what I just did.

1. I replaced the CR2032 CMOS battery today, even though it didn't
indicate it was bad, but it reset the BIOS to August 2009 defaults.
(I cabled the two drives to the MB SATA0 & SATA1, respectively.)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/0Qnvy8t4/bsod-bios01.jpg>

2. With the new CMOS battery, the SATA Controller Mode defaulted to RAID
which I changed to IDE (I don't even know what AHCI is).
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QMpsvgch/bsod-bios02.jpg>

3. Long ago I pulled the Nvidia graphics card. The BIOS defaulted to
Primary Video Adapter = PCE-E x16, which I changed to "Onboard".
o <https://i.postimg.cc/4NSJcxJk/bsod-bios03.jpg>

4. There is a "After AC Power Failure" option, which I set to "Stay Off".
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hvCKpSTm/bsod-bios04.jpg>

Like a Covid vaccine, I don't expect these settings to do much,
but perhaps they won't hurt.

In summary, I get the BSOD every couple of days, where sometimes I have to
repair the boot with a Win10 DVD and sometimes I don't have to repair it.

It's not the memory - but some other hardware, as yet unknown to me.
Resetting the BIOS to default plus the settings above, is what I just did.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:13:19 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> In summary, in this situation where random BSODs destroy the ability of the
> Windows machine to boot, what "seems" to help is preventing the machine
> from rebooting out of our control.

To update the record, I thoroughly tested both the memory & the WD HDD.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/qv5N2sWS/hiren15.jpg>

Both the memory and the 1TB "Blue" WD HDD are devoid of error:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/KzKrnc9r/hiren12.jpg>

Gory details are here where I created both a WinXP & Win10 USB boot stick:
o What PC hardware diagnostic stress-testing freeware can you recommend?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/dkkdOmL95d8>

Note: The biggest hurdle to stress testing in that thread, where I used
Hirens Boot CD, was simply that there was no documentation for BIOS boots
(only UEFI boots) to the Windows XP and Windows 10 Rufus-created 1.5GB USB
sticks.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE <https://i.postimg.cc/q7ZQbgXy/bsod-bios05.jpg>

I also decided to ensure I'm getting a BSOD dump file for information:
o Here is what I just now enabled to obtain a good memory dump:

Win+R > cmd {control+shift+Enter} <== admin prompt
o Note: The default memory dump file is: %SystemRoot%\Memory.dmp

Set the filespec to the memory dump file:
o wmic recoveros set DebugFilePath = C:\data\sys\bsod\bsod.dmp

Turn on the writing of BSOD events to the memory dump file:
o wmic recoveros set WriteToSystemLog = True

Send an administrative alert when a crash occurs:
o wmic recoveros set SendAdminAlert = True

Turn off automatic restart after a crash:
o wmic recoveros set AutoReboot = False

Set to record a COMPLETE memory dump (doesn't work for more than 2GB RAM):
o wmic recoveros set DebugInfoType = 1

Don't automatically overwrite a previous memory dump file:
o wmic recoveros set OverwriteExistingDebugFile = 0

[Arlen Holder]

Update: <https://i.postimg.cc/vTnqk9GC/bsod100.jpg>

I also just now decided to ensure the drivers are fully verified by the
Microsoft Driver Verifier Manager, where, apparently, the Windows Driver
Verifier will disable faulty drivers after a BSOD in the next bootup.

Apparently this Driver Verifier Manager also creates minidumps, but those
minidumps will require Windows Symbols Packages and a tool to interpret
the crash data such as the Windows Debugger (Windbg), WhoCrashed, & Nirsoft
BlueScreenView, all of which I'll test separately when I have the
minidumps.

o Using Driver Verifier to identify issues with Windows drivers for advanced users
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/244617/using-driver-verifier-to-identify-issues-with-windows-drivers-for-adva>

Start the Microsoft Windows Driver Verifier Manager
o Win+R > verifier

Configure that Windows Driver Verifier Manager
(o)Create standard settings > [Next]
(o)Automatically select all drivers installed on this computer > [Finish]

Note it won't take effect until you reboot and then you can check status.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vTnqk9GC/bsod100.jpg>

Note: The Microsoft Driver Verifier Manager consumes a _lot_ of CPU power!

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 11:40:53 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> What exactly does that mean 'won't boot' (after BSOD)?
>
> How exactly does the boot fail?:
> - the machine POSTs properly
> - the Win boot mgr finishes
> - some kind of Win screen appears, but never completes
> - or what?

Hi Mike,
It's confusing.
o And, whatever I say, may be wrong just 'cuz it's random'ish.

Also, there is a CRITICAL untested factor I forgot to mention:
o I haven't re-used the Nvidia graphics card yet (nor tested)

Outside of that, what "seems" to happen now after a BSOD is very different
than what used to consistently happen after a BSOD, which is important,
because, I think, it wasn't so much the BSOD that ate up the bootable
portion of the HDD but what happened AFTER the BSOD.

So we need a then and now, where I'll explain what has been happening in
the past ten BSODs (a couple of weeks) but bear in mind I've had zero BSODs
since I added the minidump crash debuggers suggested in
o Windows BSOD analysis - A thorough usage guide
<https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-bsod.html>

First, some hints for others to disable stuff that hurts rebooting:
o To disable autostart after updates:

Win+R > %windir%\system32\taskschd.msc /s {ctrl+shft+enter}

Win+R > cmd {ctrl+shift+enter} > %windir%\system32\taskschd.msc /s

Task Scheduler Library > Microsoft > Windows > UpdateOrchestrator

Right click on the task named "Reboot_AC" & click "Disable" to disable.

o To disable autostart after crashes:

Win+R > control.exe {ctrl+shift+enter}
View by: Category
System and Security > System > Advanced System Settings

Bring up Startup & Recovery settings:
Startup and Recovery > Settings
Uncheck the system failure automatically-restart option:
System failure

[x]Write an event to the system log

[_]Automatically restart
OK > OK

o To turn off faststartup (i.e., fastboot) & hibernate
powercfg /h /type reduced
powercfg /h /type full
Win+R > powercfg.cpl > Choose what the power buttons do >
Change settings that are currently unavailable >
Shutdown settings
DEFAULT:
[x]Turn on fast startup (recommended)
[x]Sleep
[_]Hibernate
[x]Lock
Change to:
[_]Turn on fast startup (recommended)
[x]Sleep
[_]Hibernate
[x]Lock
Note you can have "hibernate" (reduced) without "faststartup";
but you can't have fast startup without hibernate (full or reduced).

o Disable sleep
Note there are two types of sleep: Hybrid Sleep mode.
Win+R > powercfg.cpl
Change when the computer sleeps
DEFAULT:
Turn off the display > 10 minutes
Put the computer to sleep > 30 minutes
Change to:
Turn off the display > Never
Put the computer to sleep > Never
Sleep > allow hybrid sleep = Off
Change advanced power settings (note 0 means never).
Note: Sleep stores in RAM what Hibernate stores in "Hiberfile.sys".

Lately:
1. I'm happily humming away for days on the PC in Windows 10 Pro latest.
2. BSOD! (the first one is usually a "kernel" error, as I recall)
<https://i.postimg.cc/9Q4m7tfM/bsod01.jpg>
3. The machine is set to not hibernate, not fastboot, not sleep.
4. The machine is set to not reboot automatically.
5. So the machine just sits there staring dumbly aloof
6. I kill power to the machine in two stages (machine then power strip)
7. I wait until the green LED goes off on the motherboard (1 minute)
8. I cross my fingers, and boot cold.

Almost all the time now, the machine boots to the login screen.
o If necessary, I restore to the previous restore point.

Before:
1. I'm happily humming away for days on the PC in Windows 10 Pro latest.
2. BSOD!
<https://i.postimg.cc/9Q4m7tfM/bsod01.jpg> [UNEXPECTED KERNEL MODE TRAP]
3. The thing reboots, and a _different_ BSOD shows up, maybe:
<https://i.postimg.cc/DyNFnJcK/bsod02.jpg> [KERNEL SECURITY CHECK FAILURE]
4. Each time could be yet another BSOD shows up, maybe:
<https://i.postimg.cc/XYnhMnR0/bsod10.jpg> [MEMORY MANAGEMENT]
5. At some point, the machine reverts to trying to fix itself:
<https://i.postimg.cc/zGRNBzdH/bsod03.jpg> [Preparing Automatic Repair]
<https://i.postimg.cc/9McHJGcy/bsod04.jpg> [Diagnosing your PC]
<https://i.postimg.cc/qq5fJSyG/bsod05.jpg> [Automatic Repair?]
<https://i.postimg.cc/JnFKGLYt/bsod06.jpg> [Automatic Repair failed]
<https://i.postimg.cc/gk3FFSr3/bsod07.jpg> [Reset your PC]
<https://i.postimg.cc/Pq30z0Fn/bsod08.jpg> [Booting, ferris dots]
<https://i.postimg.cc/JnSgSZLT/bsod09.jpg> [Lock screen success
6. That success is when I'm lucky; if I'm not lucky, POST fails:
<https://i.postimg.cc/zGpQ89NH/bsod11.jpg> [POST STOPS BEFORE FINISHING]

But that hasn't happened since I disabled the things that seem to chew up
the operating system when the OS is suddenly shut down from a BSOD.
--
Usenet is a wonderfully shared public way to identify technical solutions.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:36:48 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> That is, this isn't a 'virgin' win10pro that is bsod/ing, it is a arlen
> frankenholder win10pro, nicht wahr?

Das ist richtig Herr Easter!
o You might wonder why I haven't responded all day, Mike.

I got my first BSOD in days, this morning, when I woke up.
o It took me about six hours of repetitive booting to get the OS back.

By the time I booted to a stable OS, I had a dozen handwritten pages of
what happened, where I've been up and alive for, oh, about three hours now,
but it took me six hours to be booted to a stable OS.
(I need to write the steps up separately, so that others can benefit.)

I must have booted twenty to thirty times in that process, where I
documented every step with a photo if I could (some flashed by too fast).

Here's just the short summary of my day today...

o This is the PC hardware:
<https://i.postimg.cc/FR03FQMc/bsod201.jpg>

o This is just some of the dozen pages of steps it took to boot today:
<https://i.postimg.cc/gJzjkzQt/bsod202.jpg>

o BSOD #1 (with white lines) SYSTEM SERVICE EXCEPTION
<https://i.postimg.cc/BnCkxJXG/bsod203.jpg>

o BSOD #2 (with white lines) SYSTEM THREAD EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED
<https://i.postimg.cc/5t7rRpB7/bsod204.jpg>

o BSOD #3 SYSTEM THREAD EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED
<https://i.postimg.cc/RFWY5fGM/bsod205.jpg>

o BSOD #4 (just the white lines)
<https://i.postimg.cc/tT8MXTmF/bsod206.jpg>

o BSOD #5 (with white lines) DRIVER OVERRAN STACK BUFFER
<https://i.postimg.cc/FFJ6Ty7p/bsod207.jpg>

o BSOD #6 KERNEL SECURITY CHECK FAILURE
<https://i.postimg.cc/gkFTQxhW/bsod208.jpg>

o Choosing the latest restore point:
<https://i.postimg.cc/HswhgT07/bsod209.jpg>

o Back to Windows 10 again, like nothing ever happened:
<https://i.postimg.cc/bwqFY4LV/bsod210.jpg>

Now, it's working just fine!
--
As with religion & God, both computers & Microsoft work in mysterious ways.

On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 16:34:42 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 23:29:30 -0400, n/a wrote:
>
>> I see in the photo you posted that the memory slots are color coded black
>> and blue with 2 of each, side-by-side.
>
> Yes.
> o Banks 1 & 2 are blue; banks 3 & 4 are black (based on POST output).
>
> Originally, I arbitrarily labeled, in black marker on the steel housing
> o 1,2,3,4 (left to right, the CPU being to the right)
>
> But in actuality, it must be:
> o 4,3,2,1 (left to right), the CPU being to the right)
>
>> So Channel A would be the first blue
>> slot and the first black slot reading right to left. Your DIMM's have a
>> label on the motherboard showing left to right numbering of 4, 3, 2, 1.
>
> You're right!
>
> I must admit I had NOT seen that until just now, I _looked_ all over the
> motherboard to see _where_ you saw labels, and they are there in this pic!
> o <https://i.postimg.cc/BvVCnMQX/bsod34.jpg>
> Just as you said they were!
>
> The markings are strangely unbalanced though, for some reason:
> o DIMM1
> o DIMM2xMM1
> o DIMM3xMM2
> o DIMM4xMM3,xMM4
>
>> So channel A consists of 2 slots, number 1 & 3. Channel B slots are 2 & 4.
>
> I think I now understand that, and have relabeled the chassis accordingly.
>
>> Saying it another way - to test a pair in dual channel mode you fill
>> slot(s) 1 and 3 and/or slots 2 and 4 --- and not 1 and 2 and/or 3 and 4.
>> Hope that didn't make it confusing.
>
> I don't really know what a "channel" is, but since both you and Paul use
> that term, I looked it up after running CPU-Z on the machine with the 2
> memory cards still in banks 3 and 4:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/WpHnH6H1/bsod35.jpg>
>
> o What is Dual-Channel Memory?
> <https://www.crucial.com/articles/about-memory/what-is-dual-channel-memory>
> "There are memory controllers built with one channel, two channels
> (dual channel), four channels (quad channel), six channels,
> and eight channels."
>
> o Dual-channel memory
> <https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/d/dual-channel-memory.htm>
> "The first channel is often slots one and two, and the second channel
> is three and four. When installing memory in pairs make sure to install
> them into the same colored slot to take advantage of the dual-channel
> platform."
> But their picture shows alternating colors, whereas mine shows colors
> together, so it's confusing because the data is different.
>
> o Multi-channel memory architecture
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-channel_memory_architecture>
> "Dual-channel architecture requires a dual-channel-capable motherboard
> and two or more DDR, DDR2, DDR3, DDR4, or DDR5 memory modules.
> The memory modules are installed into matching banks, each of which
> belongs to a different channel)."
>
> o What is a Motherboard Memory Controller?
> <https://www.brighthub.com/computing/hardware/articles/79382.aspx>
> "In ganged mode, there is a 128 bit wide logical DIMM that maps the
> first 64 bits on the physical DDR channel A and the last 64 bit
> on DDR channel B. The physical address space, in other words,
> is interleaved between the two DIMMs in 64 bit steps"
>
>> But no matter, fill all the slots and go with MemTest86.
>
> I've been dealing with Covid-19 issues at home, so things are getting
> hectic, where the machine has remained alive, shockingly so, with the
> memory in banks 3 & 4 only, where it's time to put the other two back in
> and run that memtest86 (I still need a sacrificial memory stick for the
> memtest86 ISO).
>
>> With no errors in 24 hrs with only 2 sticks of memory, that sure is a good
>> sign - but of what, is yet to be discovered. You could move the same two
>> sticks over to the empty slots and run 24 hrs and see what blows up - if
>> anything.
>
> That's not a bad idea, as it shockingly has been running for two days now
> (or so), where before, it wouldn't last an hour or two at most.
>
>> But to nail it down, install all memory and run MemTest86 as per
>> the instructions. Don't get creative and think you know the software better
>> than the authors - it will only waste your time. And you want to be able to
>> send the log to the manufacturer so they know what the failures are - for
>> warranty.
>
> I think the best bang for the buck is, as you say, not to get creative and
> just put memtest86 on a flash drive, boot, and test all four at once.
>
>> Do yourself a favor and vacuum the CPU heat sink - I see some dust....;-)
>
> Thanks for that tip. What _started_ this whole mess in the first place, as
> far as I can tell, is I was blowing the canned air on the dust, of which
> there was originally tons and tons, and then, the machine shut down
> (obviously I shouldn't have been using the canned air while it was
> runnng),.
>
> Then, for weeks (I stopped using the PC after a while 'cuz it wouldn't last
> an hour), it would consistently BSOD.
>
> But I don't know if blowing the dust was the cause or just coincidence; but
> what I learned (the hard way) is I should clean the dust with a vaccuum,
> and not canned air - and - I should power it down first!
>
>> Also, while you are looking at the innards, look very closely at all the
>> capacitors on the motherboard. The tops of each should be flat especially
>> those with the X indent on the top.
>
> Good advice. I used to blow up electrolytic cans by sticking their leads in
> a switched 120VAC socket in college long ago at the Physics lab benches,
> where we thought it was funny when people switched on the lights that they
> all blew up like firecrackers. (We were even worse in the chemistry labs,
> blowing up nitrogen tri-iodide after paintint it wet on the lab benches.)
> [As an aside, I'd kill my kids or grandkids if they ever did the
> shenanigans we did with exploding things when we were kids.]
>
>> If you find any bad ones, you can
>> replace them if you know how to handle a soldering iron - otherwise, think
>> about a new motherboard.
>
> I have soldering stations, solder suckers, etc., as I used to work as a
> part timeer in a TV repair shop way back in the sixties when I was in
> school.

[Lucifer]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 01:23:38 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:

>I got my first BSOD in days, this morning, when I woke up.

>It took me about six hours of repetitive booting to get the OS back.

A faulty power supply can cause very strange errors.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:58:41 +1000, Lucifer wrote:

>>I got my first BSOD in days, this morning, when I woke up.
>>It took me about six hours of repetitive booting to get the OS back.
>
> A faulty power supply can cause very strange errors.

Thanks for your purposefully helpful advice, as I'm determined, as always,
to methodically track down the cause of this intermittent BSOD, where
yesterday, I rebooted a score of times, changing only a single minor
variable each time, in an attempt to recover Windows without needing to
rebuild the OS after the BSOD chewed it up.

It took literally a dozen pages of steps, every one of which I wrote down:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/0yV7YFP3/bsod211.jpg>

So that today, it's running with aplomb, as if nothing happened yesterday.

Moving on, since I'm determined to find what is causing these BSODs...
o I have been checking voltages - but I don't know what they should be.

Looking at the OCCT results while I run the furmark, valley, prime95 &
intelburn benchmarks shows each of the voltages in tabular form
(e.g, CPU VCore 2.14V, VIN1 2.14V, +3.3V, +5V, +12V, -12V, -5V, and +5V
VCCH) where that table is in the form of current value, minimum, & max
value.

The +5V is slightly glitchy but I'm not sure what to compare it to.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/26yJTkFZ/voltage01.jpg>

In addition to looking at voltages during benchmarks, I have temps too:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/X79V9Lv0/voltage02.jpg>

But again, it's not so much knowing the temp, but what it should be.
o Voltages
o Temperatures
o Fan speeds
etc.

In addition, since the BSODs are intermittent, I've been "recording"
performance with the Microsoft Windows Performance Recorder from the
Microsoft SDK (C:\path-to-ms-sdk\Windows Performance Toolkit\WPRUI.exe),
but I'm not sure yet how to analyze the results yet.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2020 09:00:47 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> That is a significantly mod/ed Win10.

Hi Mike,

I appreciate that you have a great grasp of the problem set.
o And that your advice is 100% on the mark

It's not a bare-bones Windows system that I'm using for the past year
o The GUI is customized to be efficient & apps are installed to be used
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCZHCSnD/bsod212.jpg>

I use Windows; it's not just a screensaver display; it's in use all day.
o In fact, it hasn't crashed since yesterday morning & has been stressed
<https://i.postimg.cc/26yJTkFZ/voltage01.jpg>

But when it BSOD'd yesterday, it took 12 pages of steps to get it back!
o <https://i.postimg.cc/0yV7YFP3/bsod211.jpg>

Unfortunately, I had to hone the log-saving setup after the BSOD happened:
o Win+R > msconfig > General > Startup selection
(_)Normal startup
(o)Diagnostic startup
(_)Selective startup

Enable minidumps:
o Win+R > sysdm.cpl > Advanced > Startup and Recovery > Settings >

System failure
[x]Write an event to the system log
[_]Automatically restart

Write debugging information
[none]
[Small memory dump]
[Kernel memory dump]
[Complete memory dump]
[Automatic memory dump] <== select this for Win10
[Active memory dump]
Dump file:
%SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP
[_]Overwrite any existing file
[x]Disable automatic deletion of memory dumps when disk space is low
etc.

> My point is that in a simple works vs doesn't work dichotomy, having a
> simple working model as a basis of comparison to a non-working model
> helps to isolate a problem.

Agreed.
o But Windows is what I use to get things done.

So "stuff" is gonna have to be added.
o In general, apps don't cause "Stop Errors" (hardware & drivers do).

> In this/your scenario, we aren't even 100% confident of the hardware
> integrity, except that various testing methods are negative. So, it
> could be something like a bad cap that isn't visible/distorted.

There's a reason I opened this thread hoping to find a "bad cap" tester:

o What PC hardware diagnostic stress-testing freeware can you recommend?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/dkkdOmL95d8>

So far we can only easily stress test CPUs, Memory, & GPUs (it seems).
o What we need is a "circuit board" testing suite of some sort
<https://i.postimg.cc/X79V9Lv0/voltage02.jpg>

> Second or also, we haven't seen some 'reliable' system work for an
> extended period of time, say a week. By reliable, I mean such as a live
> linux or even a live H PE. Such a running clean live for a week would
> give more confidence that there wasn't some kind of unpredictable
> hardware condition such as a bad mobo cap.

Agreed.
o But this is my daily driver so I need to get work done.

I _tried_ to get work done on a live Ubuntu - but it was too darn slow.

> But, instead, you start w/ a clean W10, then you mod it significantly
> and then you get your BSOD which we don't know is caused by mobo, hdd,
> or win10 + tweaks software.

Most likely, according to the cites I've already provided, a BSOD
o is usually caused by hardware about half the time, and,
o by drivers the other half of the time.

Neither one of which "should" be affected by a hundred tweaks to Windows.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/D0J1tgDZ/windows-tweak.jpg>

> Then you have to hope that you can develop
> the skills to examine Who Crashed, BlueScreenView, or Windbg and find
> some answer.

Rest assured, I'm working on it, but, unfortunately, no log was saved!
o It turns out Windows is pretty damn choosy as to how it's set up.

For example...
o The page file must be on the same drive as your operating system
o The page file base allocation size must be greater than RAM
o Windows Error Reporting (WER) system service should be set to MANUAL
o Set page file to system managed on the OS drive
o Set system crash/recovery options to "kernel memory dump"
o User account control must be running.
o Sometimes SSD drives with older firmware do not create DMPS
o Cleaner applications like Ccleaner delete DMP files.
etc.

BTW, I also ran a series of de rigueur cleanups, all of which ran clean:
o For example, I ran scannow 3 times, then dism, then scannow a fourth time

From my logs (see the thread on creating a usb stick set of pc-specific
logs):
o What solution do you use to figure out what USB drive letter in a Windows
scripted command?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.msdos.batch/fjxhOsMvJkY>

Here's a cut-and-paste of steps from those pc-specific usb-portable logs:

o Win+R > cmd {control+shift+enter}
sfc /scannow
Windows Resource Protection could not start the repair service.
sc config trustedinstaller start= auto [SC] ChangeServiceConfig SUCCESS
net start trustedinstaller
The Windows Modules Installer service is starting.
The Windows Modules Installer service was started successfully.
sfc /scannow
Beginning system scan. This process will take some time.
Beginning verification phase of system scan.
sfc /scannow
sfc /scannow
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth
sfc /scannow

> I think such dump examinations are going to be exceedingly difficult.

I'm also learning how to use Microsoft SetupDiag to analyze minidump files:
o <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/upgrade/setupdiag>

There is also a Microsoft Windows Performance Recorder I'm testing out:
o <https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-update/windows-performance-recorder/a1648e8c-50c7-4243-9f1d-4216385c7ff3>

As shown in this screenshot below:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/YCZHCSnD/bsod212.jpg>
--
On Usenet people help each other; in doing so, they give back to the team.

[Arlen Holder]

> o In general, apps don't cause "Stop Errors" (hardware & drivers do).

To be clear, I get that BSOD-causality information from the literature:
o <https://www.howtogeek.com/163452/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-blue-screen-of-death/>
"Blue screens are generally caused by problems with your computer's
hardware or issues with its hardware driver software. Sometimes, they
can be caused by issues with low-level software running in the Windows
kernel. Regular apps usually won't be able to cause blue screens.
If an app crashes, it will do so without taking the operating system
out with it."

While that one doesn't fault apps, this one below also implicates apps:

o <https://www.lmeservices.com/fix-the-dreaded-bsod/>
"The BSOD can be caused by Hardware - A faulty memory module,
bad sectors on your hard drive or possibly a toasty graphics card
The BSOD can be caused by Software – A corrupted operating system,
faulty hardware drivers or some kind of malicious app"

I have tested the drivers, albeit Verifier makes the machine verrry slow!
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vTnqk9GC/bsod100.jpg>

For example, from my syslogs...
o Win+R > verifier {control+shift+enter}
<https://i.postimg.cc/vTnqk9GC/bsod100.jpg>

Configure that Windows Driver Verifier Manager

o Create standard settings > Next
o Automatically select all drivers installed on this computer > Finish
o Win+R > shutdown.exe /r /f /t 5 /c "Reboot in 5 seconds!"
--
Usenet is purposefully helpful adults assisting each other for common good.

[Arlen Holder]

To be a bit more complete, I also tested the hard disk drive & RAM:

o What PC hardware diagnostic stress-testing freeware can you recommend?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/dkkdOmL95d8>

And, the basic standard Microsoft tests, such as chkdsk as shown below:
o Win+R > %comspec% /k chkdsk C: /r {control+shift+enter}

Then I booted and watched it for a while, but of course, it's boring:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rm0zHSGT/bsod108.jpg>

I left chkdsk to do its four stages, which took about a half hour:
o Stage 1 verifying files;
o Stage 2 verifying indexes;
o Stage 3 verifying security descriptors;
o Stage 4 verifying Usn Journal and sectors.

Then I wondered, where's the check disk log file anyway?
o Googling, I find it's a common question...

The first thing you're supposed to check, supposedly, is:
o Win+R > control > View by: Category
System and Security > Security and Maintenance > Maintenance >
Drive Status
You're looking for "All drives are working properly" of course.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/GpdzP63J/bsod113.jpg>

One way to view the check disk log is have powershell create it:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/Cx8W1dFN/bsod110.jpg>

o Win+R > powershell {control+shift+enter}
$path = "HKCU:\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User Shell Folders"
$UserDesktop = (Get-ItemProperty -Path $path -Name "Desktop").Desktop
get-winevent -ProviderName "ChkDsk" | fl timecreated, message | out-file "$UserDesktop\ChkDskResults.txt"
get-winevent -FilterHashTable @{logname="Application"}| ?{$_.providername -match "wininit"} | fl timecreated, message | out-file "$UserDesktop\ChkDskResults.txt" -append

Another way to view the check disk log is the event viewer:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/KY7fgm0S/bsod109.jpg>

Open the Event Viewer
o Win+R > eventvwr
Event Viewer (Local} > Windows Logs > Application >
(Scroll down to see "Wininit (Windows Initialization)"

Checking file system on C:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is foobar.
A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.

Stage 1: Examining basic file system structure ...
270080 file records processed.
File verification completed.
Phase duration (File record verification): 6.55 seconds.
6980 large file records processed.
Phase duration (Orphan file record recovery): 0.00 milliseconds.
0 bad file records processed.
Phase duration (Bad file record checking): 1.90 milliseconds.

Stage 2: Examining file name linkage ...
1040 reparse records processed.
365912 index entries processed.
Index verification completed.
Phase duration (Index verification): 1.26 minutes.
0 unindexed files scanned.
Phase duration (Orphan reconnection): 299.97 milliseconds.
0 unindexed files recovered to lost and found.
Phase duration (Orphan recovery to lost and found): 1.21 seconds.
1040 reparse records processed.
Phase duration (Reparse point and Object ID verification): 10.31 milliseconds.

Stage 3: Examining security descriptors ...
Cleaning up 4196 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 4196 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 4196 unused security descriptors.
Security descriptor verification completed.
Phase duration (Security descriptor verification): 233.36 milliseconds.
47917 data files processed.
Phase duration (Data attribute verification): 1.95 milliseconds.
CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal...
36184984 USN bytes processed.
Usn Journal verification completed.
Phase duration (USN journal verification): 383.78 milliseconds.

Stage 4: Looking for bad clusters in user file data ...
270064 files processed.
File data verification completed.
Phase duration (User file recovery): 32.53 minutes.

Stage 5: Looking for bad, free clusters ... 204496592 free clusters processed.
Free space verification is complete.
Phase duration (Free space recovery): 0.00 milliseconds.
Windows has scanned the file system and found no problems.
No further action is required.

976708607 KB total disk space.
158175452 KB in 214336 files.
139824 KB in 47918 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
406959 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
817986372 KB available on disk.
4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
244177151 total allocation units on disk.
204496593 allocation units available on disk.

Total duration: 33.95 minutes (2037596 ms).
Internal Info: (a bunch of numbers)
Windows has finished checking your disk.
Please wait while your computer restarts.

An easier way to _find_ the log is to filter events:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/3wcrrQHp/bsod112.jpg>

To filter by events, Rightclick on:
Event Viewer (Local) > Windows Logs > Application
Select "Filter Current Log"
In the Event sources dropdown, check
[x]Chkdsk
[x]Winit
[OK]

You can also spit out the last few event viewer logs:
Get-EventLog -LogName Application -Source chkdsk | Select-Object -Last 5 -Property TimeGenerated,Message | Format-Table -Wrap| out-file "$env:userprofile\Desktop\CHKDSK_SCANS.txt"

There is apparently also wevtutil but I couldn't get it to work.
o wevtutil epl [Application/System/Security/etc] [savepath&filename]
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/wevtutil>

Also there's a task scheduler option for check disk:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QMGpNTYN/bsod114.jpg>
o Win+R > taskschd.msc
Task Scheduler (Local) > Task Scheduler Library
Microsoft > Windows > Chkdsk > ProactiveScan
<http://woshub.com/view-check-disk-chkdsk-results-in-windows-10/>

Note: "chkdsk C: /F /R" is probably what I should have run
because that will "fix" the bad sectors, or maybe even
"chkdsk C: /F /R /X" to unmount it first, or,
"chkdsk C: /f /offlinescanandfix" to check it offline.

Note: I could also have run a "Storage Diagnostic Tool" test:
stordiag.exe -collectEtw -checkfsconsistency -out %userprofile%\desktop

Note: There's also a check disk equivalent in powershell:
Repair-Volume -Driveletter C -scan
Repair-Volume -Driveletter C -offlinescanandfix
Repair-volume -Driveletter E -spotfix
You can even scan drives on remote computers:
Repair-Volume driverletter c -scan -cimsession ny-fs01,ny-fs02,ny-dc01
And you can scan SMART status of HDD using "cmdlets"
Get-PhysicalDisk | Sort Size | FT FriendlyName, Size, MediaType,SpindleSpeed, HealthStatus, OperationalStatus -AutoSize
--
On Usenet people help each other and in doing so, they give back to the team.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:08:05 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> That is, you started w/ your tweaked W10 and used either the installed
> or the portable HeavyLoad running in its full cpu mode for > 8 h.

Well, it only ran for as long as I slept, which was less than 8 hours.
o Maybe six? (I had expected a BSOD in the morning so I didn't time it.)

> I don't think 'heavy load' testing is as important (in this context) as
> 'routine' type machine activity for longer period of time than hours.
> More like days.

I agree since the problem is clearly either random or intermittent...
o What I'm gonna do is run the minidump analyzers the next BSOD.

Unfortunately, it's not easy to get a minidump output set up properly.
o That last BSOD didn't create a new log - but the next BSOD should
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCZHCSnD/bsod212.jpg>

What I _really_ think we need is a stress tester that tests things like
'cables' and 'caps' and 'card connections".

> Something like some kind of looped browser testing for a few days.

Given it took 12 pages of "steps" to get the machine to boot on the last
BSOD of a couple days ago, I'm surprised you didn't ask what that last
"step" was that enabled it to finally boot.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/0yV7YFP3/bsod211.jpg>

Each "step" was really small, and lots were repetitive (e.g., you have to
boot three times before Windows will bring up the "Do you want to repair"?

The final step, believe it or not, that enabled me to get into the
"Do you want to repair" mode, was, get this, reseating the memory cards by
swapping them, from 1,2,3,4, to 4,3,2,1. Yup.

I don't know if this tells us anything, because it has to be repeatable,
but the next BSOD, after the third boot, if it won't bring up the "Do you
want to repair" option, I will swap the RAM back from 4,3,2,1 to 1,2,3,4.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:34:26 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> Not really; I have no comprehension or insight into why whatever happens
> at the BSOD has some great impact on a reboot or rather a 'boot again'.
>
> - one possibility is that the install is some kind of 'mess' which is
> not overcome by your restore strategies
> - another possibility is that some kind of hardware condition persists
> in spite of all kinds of efforts to get the hardware back to a 'cold'
> state, such as where the software is on the hdd
> - I don't think the difficulty and the steps are at all informative

Hi Mike,

I think the BSOD is one problem, which only then causes the second problem.
o The second problem is the BSOD corrupts the boot session.

However... and this is a biggie... the BSOD is repeatable (six times) for a
period after the first recoverable reboot (only the BSOD changes in name).

Actually, let me check my photographic date stamps...

o BSOD #1 (with white lines) SYSTEM SERVICE EXCEPTION
<https://i.postimg.cc/BnCkxJXG/bsod203.jpg>

Time: 20200914 06:50am

o BSOD #2 (with white lines) SYSTEM THREAD EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED
<https://i.postimg.cc/5t7rRpB7/bsod204.jpg>

Time: 20200914 07:09am

o BSOD #3 SYSTEM THREAD EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED
<https://i.postimg.cc/RFWY5fGM/bsod205.jpg>

Time: 20200914 07:28am

o BSOD #4 (just the white lines)
<https://i.postimg.cc/tT8MXTmF/bsod206.jpg>

Time: 20200914 10:32am

o BSOD #5 (with white lines) DRIVER OVERRAN STACK BUFFER
<https://i.postimg.cc/FFJ6Ty7p/bsod207.jpg>

Time: 20200914 10:49am

o BSOD #6 KERNEL SECURITY CHECK FAILURE
<https://i.postimg.cc/gkFTQxhW/bsod208.jpg>

Time: 20200914 2:10pm

The final repair happened at 3:18pm, and that has been stable for
the past few days.

Note that each time, in between BSODs, I was able to get Windows to boot;
usually it happened automatically with a "diagnosing" & "automatic repair",
but sometimes it booted directly to Windows (rarely though).

In general, it took a few restarts to get it back to Windows between BSODs.

Also note there were periods where I left the desk so the time is only the
elapsed time unless the BSOD happened in front of me, where the pictures
were taken when I returned to the BSOD screen as a fait accompli.
--
I took a picture of every step, which I need to document better.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:12:02 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> If the sequence is:
> - BSOD followed by
> - consistent inability to POST
> - then the same hardware problem that is causing the inability to POST
> likely *caused* the crash/BSOD;

Hi Mike,

Again, you know this better'n I do, as I agree with you.
o The hardware problem likely caused both the BSOD & the inability to boot.

> as opposed to
> - a software/windows crash/BSOD isn't going to cause a POST failure,
> but the other way around

I don't think at this point that the BSOD is due to software, per se.

> Sometimes a machine might 'accidentally' fail to POST but that should
> not persist through such as removing the power to the PS.

Yup. EVERY boot, of about a score or two (I didn't count them but I wrote
'em down so that I can count them if I want to), was from a position of
power removed from the computer for long enough for the green LED to go off
on the power supply & on the motherboard.

> The business about capacitor discharge is that the capacitors discharge
> *sooner* if the power to the PS is NOT removed; but I believe an
> alternate strategy which involves removing the power to the PS (by rear
> case switch or power block switch) can be aided by holding down the case
> power switch.

What I did, every time, was:
a. Shut down the machine via the power button
b. Turn the power strip off
c. Wait for the green LED on the motherboard to go out
d. Turn the power strip back on
e. Turn the machine on via the power button

I was religious about it as I wanted every step to be only a small
deviation from the prior step if there was any (e.g., if I hit a different
key after POST to do something else).

>> Eventually I can get to a POST though, so I should build a "rescue stick".
>> o Create a recovery drive
>> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4026852>
>>
> I don't know exactly what that is for win10, but it doesn't seem any
> better or more useful than the Hirens PE.

I have never used a Windows "RECOVERY" drive before, but it "claims" to be
able to recover your operating system, which Hirens PE does _not_ do.

>> While Microsoft doesn't say how big it needs to be, I think this'll work:
>> 1. Put an 8GB empty USB stick into the PC
>> 2. Win+R > %windir%\system32\RecoveryDrive.exe
>>
> I read that it wants 8-16.

Oh, I read plenty. It's all wrong. Most of what I've read said that for a
32-bit Windows 10, you need 8GB and for a 64-bit Windows 10 you need 16GB.

Turns out the Microsoft web page I referenced _did_ say, and it said 16GB;
but the software itself also did say, and it clearly said 8GB, and both
were wrong.

It took 5.47GB and it named the drive "RECOVERY" with the following dir:
o Boot
o EFI
o sources
o System Volume Information
o bootmgr 405kb
o BOOTNXT 1kb
o reagent.xml 2kb

So all always benefit from every action, here is my log how I created it.
o Create a recovery drive
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4026852>
1. Boot to Windows normally
2. Make sure you have no USB sticks in the computer
3. Some say the USB stick needs to be 16GB for a 64-bit Windows 10
(but others say 8GB will suffice if you don't add "system files").
4. Win+R > %windir%\system32\RecoveryDrive.exe
Create a recovery drive
[x]Back up system files to the recovery drive > [Next]
Please wait...
About five minutes later, it said:
Connect a USB flash drive:
The drive must be able to hold at least 8GB and everything on the
drive will be deleted.
That's odd, because the 16GB drive was already connected.
So I unplugged & re-plugged it in again (in another USB port).
Please wait...
About three minutes later, it said:
"Select the USB flash drive"
The drive must be able to hold at least 8GB
and everything on the drive will be deleted.
There is a warning:
"Everything on the drive will be deleted.
If you have any personal files on this drive,
make sure you've backed up the files.
[Create] (4:15
Creating the recovery drive
Formatting the drive
Copying utilities
Copying system (this took 2-1/2 hours)
The recovery drive is ready.
[Finish]
5. The resulting USB stick was named RECOVERY & was 5.47GB.

o To restore or recover using the recovery drive:
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12415/windows-10-recovery-options>

Those are confusing instructions indeed, but here they are:
1. Connect the recovery drive
2. Then "turn on" your PC.
(Hmmm... to me, that "boots" the PC to POST.)
3. Press Win+L to get to the sign-in screen
(I never heard of that; is it a replacement for "F8"?)
4. Then restart your PC by locating at the bottom right
of your login screen a "power" button icon and then
a "restart" icon.
5. That starts your PC in the WinRE environment
(aka the Windows Recovery Environment)
6. You will see a "Choose an option" screen.
7. Select "Troubleshoot"
8. Then select "Advanced Options"
9. Then select "System Restore"

(I'm not sure "when" to press the "Win+L" for example,
i.e., whether that's before, during, or after POST).

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 02:12:07 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> (I'm not sure "when" to press the "Win+L" for example,
> i.e., whether that's before, during, or after POST).

BTW, Microsoft's instructions for recovering are confusing.
I'll just have to actually do it at some point because they don't even
bother to tell you when you're supposed to used "Win+L" for example.

o To restore or recover using the recovery drive:
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12415/windows-10-recovery-options>

You're just supposed to guess, I guess. :)

It's kind of like what settings you're supposed to use to generate a Hirens
Boot CD USB from Rufus 3.11 for BIOS (and not for UEFI); you just have to
guess. I've always been annoyed by lousy instructions like that, which is
why my tutorials are at least explicit, step by step, such that you could
cut and past most of my tutorials, and if you start with the same versions
of software, they should work out of the box.

Sigh.

Anyway, I never see the Windows lock screen, i.e., the idiotic one that
happens _before_ the actual login screen, 'cuz I turned that waste of time
off long ago.

Eliminate the lock screen upon startup & go right to the login prompt:
o HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Personalization > NoLockScreen = 1
1. Regedit [HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows]
2. Add a New Key => Personalization
3. Add to it a New 32-bit DWORD -> NoLockScreen
4. Set the Value = 1

In summary, I'm ready, I think, for the next time Windows won't boot after
a BSOD, if I can get to POST, I will press Win+L a hundred times, and then
I'll hope it gets me to the point where I can use the 5-1/2 GB RECOVERY USB
stick I just created (which took 2-1/2 hours crunching time to create).

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 05:57:45 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> Likewise, I think using it for your daily driver is a disadvantage in
> the diagnosis business. The tweaked OS has two many unknowns.

Hi Mike,

Here's an update, as I'm still running various diagnostic tools.
o I've dedicated an entire monitor just for 24/7 diagnostics.
<https://i.postimg.cc/zGMPvwMV/bsoddiag04.jpg>

It hasn't BSOD'd in a few days, running 24/7, where I thought you'd be
interested in a "WhySoSlow" Analysis, after 24 hours of use as the dd:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/tCZVWZcC/bsoddiag01.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/V6kJ6dMw/bsoddiag02.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/prgrqCSV/bsoddiag03.jpg>

The only anomaly I see is the mouse every once in a while is glitchy,
in that it doesn't move for a microsecond and then recovers, which happens
relatively frequently (about once an hour or so on average or so).

But I don't know of any tool, yet, that monitors mouse "glitchiness".
o Do you?

Here is the WhySoSlow analysis, after 24 hours of continuous use:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OS version: Windows 10, 10.0, version 2004, build: 19041 (x64)
Hardware: NY549AA-ABA p6230y, HP-Pavilion, FOXCONN, ALOE
CPU: AuthenticAMD AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 810 Processor
Logical processors: 4
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 16127 MB total
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPU Speed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your CPU speed ranged between 2594 Mhz and 2594 MHz.
The advertised clock speed of your processor is 2594 MHz.
Your main processor was running at its advertised clock speed only.
Your CPUs do not appear to be throttled down.
More info..<http://www.resplendence.com/whysoslow_help_cpuspeed>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPU Temperature
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your CPU temperature ranged between 36 °C and 39 °C
(equal to 96 °F - 102 °F) during the tests.
Your processors are running cool.
More info..<http://www.resplendence.com/whysoslow_help_cputemp>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CPU Load
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While the test was idle, your CPU usage ranged from 18.7% to 60.8%.
Your processor's resources do not appear to be used heavily.
More info..<http://www.resplendence.com/whysoslow_help_cpuload>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Memory Load
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The amount of RAM used by your system while the test was running ranged
from 19.7% to 20.1%.
More info..<http://www.resplendence.com/whysoslow_help_memload>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paging Information
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
During the test hard pagefaults ranged from 0.0 to 9.1 pagefaults per second.
The values reported are considered excellent.
More info..<http://www.resplendence.com/whysoslow_help_hardpagefaults>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Application responsiveness
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The highest application responsiveness on your system was measured at 0.140 ms.
This value is considered good.
Your system appears to be responsive.
More info..<http://www.resplendence.com/whysoslow_help_appresponsiveness>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kernel latencies and real-time capabilities
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The highest kernel responsiveness on your system was measured at 0.136 ms.
This value is considered good.
There do not appear to be drivers causing your system to be unsuitable
for real-time processing capabilities.
More info..<http://www.resplendence.com/whysoslow_help_kernelresponsiveness>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BIOS and chipset behavior
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The highest measured SM BIOS interrupt or other stall was 1 microseconds.
This value is considered excellent.
No problems have been detected during the tests.
More info..<http://www.resplendence.com/whysoslow_help_smm>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your system has been analyzed. Your system appears to be running fine.
No problems were found.
Report generated on 9/21/2020 2:22:22
--
Usenet allows intelligent adults to communicate and learn from each other.

[Arlen Holder]

Update:
What on earth do I need to do to get Windows to create crash dumps?

Today was the first BSOD in a few days, where it happened when I was away:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/PrNVbMsw/newbsod01.jpg>
TimeStamp: 9/25/2020 / 18:31
Your device ran into a problem and needs to restart.
We're just collecting some error info, and then you can restart.
0% complete
System Service Exception
What failed: win32kbase.sys

I did a controlled shutdown & cold startup - which BSOD'd even before
getting to the Windows 10 login prompt (how does it even do that?)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/tCfSBVpm/newbsod02.jpg>
TimeStamp: 9/25/2020 / 18:37
Your device ran into a problem and needs to restart.
You can restart.
System Thread Exception Not Handled

Then, as I had previously promised, I removed all four memory cards.
o And then put them back _exactly_ in the same slots as I took them out.

It booted!
o The first BSOD debugger I ran was "Who Crashed" which said:
Crash Dump Analysis
Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.
Crash dump directories:
C:\Windows
C:\Windows\Minidump
No valid crash dumps have been found on your computer
Conclusion
Crash dumps are enabled but no valid crash dumps have been found.
In case you are experiencing system crashes, it may be that crash dumps
are prevented from being written out. Check out the following article
for possible causes: If crash dumps are not written out.
<https://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed_dumpnotwritten>

Since I boot off the net, I didn't check that out immediately.
o Then I ran BlueScreenView by Nir Sofer but it found no logs either.

I ran AppCrashView but there was nothing for today in its logs.
o Then I ran WinCrashReport, but it too, was devoid of data.

I deactivated the killswitch Marek Novotny kindly mostly wrote for me
o And visited the prescribed web page for why crash logs don't exist.
<https://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed_dumpnotwritten>

Your system must be configured to write out crash dump files
in case of a system error. Your system can be configured to support
different types of crash dump files. For best results, you should
configure your system for full memory dumps whenever possible.
To configure your system to write out crash dumps, check out the article
<https://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed_enablingdumps>
(the problem is those "My Computer" instructions don't work)
Enabling Crash Dumps:
o How to configure system failure and recovery options in Windows
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307973>
Win+R > systempropertiesadvanced > Startup and Recovery > [Settings]

System failure > [x]Write an event to the system log

Note: My crash dump log settings are set correctly!
o <https://i.postimg.cc/52CPTNt9/newbsod03.jpg>

Also note there were only old crash dump files in
o %LocalAppData%/crashdumps/*.dmp

I then followed these instructions to generate crash dumps:
o How to generate crash dumps on a Windows machine
https://helpx.adobe.com/xd/kb/how-to-generate-crash-dump-on-windows-machine.html
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Windows Error Reporting\LocalDumps
By creating an "Expandable String Value" from scratch of:
DumpFolder = %LOCALAPPDATA%\CrashDumps
And by creating a new DWORD (32-bit) value of:
DumpCount = 10 (hex)
And by creating another new DWORD (32-bit) value of:
DumpType = 2 (hex)
As shown in this screenshot:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/YSBXHK46/newbsod04.jpg>

I thought I had done that before, but maybe it got wiped out when Windows
reverted to an older System Restore Point, so, to forestall that from
happening again, I then made _two_ duplicate System restore points!

Then I ran the Windows Reliability Monitor:
o Win+R > perfmon /rel
Which said:
Windows was not properly shut down 9/26/2020 6:41 PM
The previous system shutdown at 6:23:12 PM on ý9/ý25/ý2020 was unexpected.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/nrxjF24w/newbsod05.jpg>

Notice that just before the BSOD Stop Error, were two Windows updates:
o Security Intelligence Update for Microsoft Defender Antivirus
KB2267602 (Version 1.323.1895.0) Successful Windows Update 9/25/2020 5:07PM
KB2267602 (Version 1.323.1011.0) Successful Windows Update 9/25/2020 6:16PM

That means the crash happened between 6:16PM & about 6:30PM.

As per:
o How to Read Shutdown and Restart Event Logs in Windows
<https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/78335-read-shutdown-logs-event-viewer-windows.html>
I ran:
o Win+R > eventvwr.msc
EventViewer (Local) > Windows Logs > System > (right click)
Filter Current Log > Event IDs = 41, 1074, 6006, 6008
But the only two entries around that time were _after_ the first BSOD:
o Error 9/25/2020 6:41:22 EventLog EventID=6008 TaskCategory=None
o Critical 9/25/2020 6:41:00 PM Kernel-Power EventID=41 TaskCategory=(63)

However, clicking on the "Critical" entry above came up with:
o The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first.
This error could be caused if the system stopped responding,
crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.

Clicking on the "Error" entry above came up with:
o The previous system shutdown at 6:23:12 PM on ý9/ý25/ý2020 was unexpected.

So I'm assuming the initial BSOD happened at 6:23:12 PM on ý9/ý25/ý2020.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hPyfZYzY/newbsod06.jpg>

All I know is that it has something (maybe) to do with
o System Service Exception, What failed: win32kbase.sys

Not surprisingly, that's a common search term which finds a lot
of scams that try to sell a driver update tool, but this first
hit was from the microsoft domain:
<https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/bsod-systemserviceexception-win32kbasesys/1de149cd-2c4b-4a98-8af3-0553624e61e4>
o Win+R > cmd {Control+Shift+Enter} >
sfc /scannow
DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Scanhealth
DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Restorehealth
Where I ran the "sfc /scannow" three times in a row.
And then the two DISM commands, and then another "sfc /scannow".

This has more information about the "Win32Kbase.sys" file:
<https://www.thewindowsclub.com/fix-win32kbase-sys-bsod-error-on-windows-10>
"Win32kbase.sys is a Windows operating system Base Win32 Kernel Driver
file, which is located in the System32 folder. If it gets corrupted or
goes missing, your computer could throw up a Blue Screen.
To fix this error, we recommend the following 3 solutions:
Run System File Checker:
sfc /scannow
Run DISM to repair corrupt system image.
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth
Run the Check Disk utility:
chkdsk /f C:

The Check Disk will run at the next boot, but the rest were clean:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/1377tygK/newbsod07.jpg>
--
This BSOD happens roughly about once or twice a week lately.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-09-25 8:53 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> Update:
> What on earth do I need to do to get Windows to create crash dumps?

Actually know what you're doing?

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:
a. I was able to get Windows to create crash logs finally (it's not intuitive)
b. The crash logs (or BSOD messages) tentatively implicate 3 specific files:
c:\windows\system32\drivers\fltmgr.sys (implicated in crash logs)
c:\windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe (secondarily indicated in crash logs)
c:\windows\system32\win32kbase.sys (implicated in BSOD screen message)
c. All three files test good.
sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\drivers\fltmgr.sys (runs in a second)
sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe (takes a second to run)
sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\win32kbase.sys (runs in a second)

Technical questions that resulted are:
1. How can we tell exactly which restore point Windows finally ended up with?
2. How can we update all the outdated hardware drivers at once?

Gory Details (written so that many others can follow in our footsteps):

Last I reported yesterday afternoon, I had scheduled a checkdisk to run
on boot at about 9:20 PM after running sfc and dism cleanup operations:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/PrNVbMsw/newbsod01.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/tCfSBVpm/newbsod02.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/52CPTNt9/newbsod03.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/YSBXHK46/newbsod04.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/nrxjF24w/newbsod05.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hPyfZYzY/newbsod06.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/1377tygK/newbsod07.jpg>

Just my luck that it BSOD'd during that checkdisk operation at about 9:26 PM:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/BnkhdZKy/newbsod08.jpg>

Your device ran into a problem and needs to restart.
We're just collecting some error info, and then you can restart.
0% complete

System Thread Exception Not Handled

Then, it BSOD'd instantly on the very next reboot at about 9:28 PM.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vZJz0qRw/newbsod09.jpg>

Your device ran into a problem and needs to restart.
We're just collecting some error info, and then you can restart.

100% complete
Kernel Mode Heap Corruption

Note that the log file appears to have been created 100%.

o The third reboot then brought up the POST screen, which is a good sign:
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhbj56L2/newbsod10.jpg>

o Then came the obligatory "Preparing Automatic Repair" & ferris dots:
<https://i.postimg.cc/2S7Qxzxh/newbsod11.jpg>

o And then the "Diagnosing your PC" and ferris dots:
<https://i.postimg.cc/QNKcygbX/newbsod12.jpg>

o And the always inevitable "Windows couldn't load correctly":
<https://i.postimg.cc/j5pnb9XR/newbsod13.jpg>
To which I pressed [Restore]

o Which brought us to the "Attempting repairs" screen with ferris dots:
<https://i.postimg.cc/9QL4Mzp8/newbsod14.jpg>

o After a flag, ferris dots, & a flag with ferris dots, "Please wait":
<https://i.postimg.cc/j5PdzjHr/newbsod15.jpg>

o Once booted, I noticed from my menus Windows had reverted to an old
restore point, but I can't figure out how to tell which one it used.
(You'd think it's the last but it's not always the last one, particularly
when it takes many reboots to finally get to the login screen.)

o I ran the Windows Reliability Monitor which finally had some information:
<https://i.postimg.cc/dQgpbBcn/newbsod16.jpg>
Win+R > perfmon /rel
Control Panel > System & Security > Security & Maintenance

o The first of two logged failures was not all that informatively useful:
<https://i.postimg.cc/9FVtwRdC/newbsod17.jpg>
Control Panel > System & Security > Security & Maintenance > Problem Details
Date: 9/25/2020 9:38 PM
Problem: Windows failed to start because of missing system files
Description: Windows was unable to determine the problem.
Error code: 0x13a

o The second of two logged failures was only slightly more informative:
<https://i.postimg.cc/3R5DMV9Y/newbsod18.jpg>
Control Panel > System & Security > Security & Maintenance > Problem Details

This is the first of two entries at 9:39 PM:
Problem: Windows stopped working 9/25/2020 9:39 PM
Description
The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.
The bugcheck was: 0x0000013a
(0x0000000000000012, 0xffffca0853202100, 0xffffca0858beb000, 0x0000000000000000)
A dump was saved in: C:\Windows\MEMORY.DMP.
Report Id: ba013a5c-613d-4fae-9d5a-a26f9ab3b1af.

This is the second of two entries at 9:39 PM:

Problem: Shut down unexpectedly 9/25/2020 9:39 PM
Problem signature
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
Code: 13a
Parameter 1: 12
Parameter 2: ffffca0853202100
Parameter 3: ffffca0858beb000
Parameter 4: 0
OS version: 10_0_19041
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1
OS Version: 10.0.19041.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033

o Than I ran the Windows System Event Viewer:
<https://i.postimg.cc/LsBZpvWP/newbsod19.jpg>

Win+R > eventvwr.msc
EventViewer (Local) > Windows Logs > System > (right click)
Filter Current Log > Event IDs = 41, 1074, 6006, 6008

Information: 9/25/2020 9:24:30 PM Source=User32 EventID=1074 Task=None
General: The process C:\Windows\Explorer.EXE (pcname) has initiated
the restart of computer pcname on behalf of user pcname\username
for the following reason: Other (Unplanned)
Reason Code: 0x0
Shutdown Type: restart
Comment:
General:
Log Name: System
Source: User32
Event ID: 1074
Level: Information
User: pcname\username
OpCode: Info
Logged: 9/25/2020 9:24:30 PM
Task Category: None
Keywords: Classic
Computer: pcname

Information: 9/25/2020 9:24:36 PM Source=EventLog EventID=6006 Task=None
General: The Event log service was stopped.
Log Name: System
Source: EventLog
Event ID: 6006
Level: Information
User: N/A
OpCode: Info
Logged: 9/25/2020 9:24:36 PM
Task Category: None
Keywords: Classic
Computer: pcname

o Then I ran "WhoCrashed" which implicated "fltmgr.sys" & "ntoskrnl.exe":
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y28Z9HFn/newbsod20.jpg>

On Fri 9/25/2020 9:28:05 PM your computer crashed or a problem was reported
crash dump file: C:\Windows\MEMORY.DMP
This was probably caused by the following module: fltmgr.sys
(FLTMGR!FltCbdqInitialize+0x2EC2)
Bugcheck code: 0x13A (0x12, 0xFFFFCA0853202100, 0xFFFFCA0858BEB000, 0x0)
Error: KERNEL_MODE_HEAP_CORRUPTION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\fltmgr.sys
product: Microsoft(c) Windows(c) Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: Microsoft Filesystem Filter Manager
Bug check description: This indicates that the kernel mode heap manager has detected corruption in a heap.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in a file system driver. Since there is no other responsible driver detected,
this could be pointing to a malfunctioning drive or corrupted disk.
It's suggested that you run CHKDSK.

On Fri 9/25/2020 9:28:05 PM your computer crashed or a problem was reported
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\092520-31906-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x3F3EA0)
Bugcheck code: 0x13A (0x12, 0xFFFFCA0853202100, 0xFFFFCA0858BEB000, 0x0)
Error: KERNEL_MODE_HEAP_CORRUPTION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft(c) Windows(c) Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that the kernel mode heap manager has detected corruption in a heap.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel.
Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.

Conclusion
2 crash dumps have been found and analyzed.
No offending third party drivers have been found.
Connsider [sic] using WhoCrashed Professional which offers more detailed
analysis using symbol resolution.
Also configuring your system to produce a full memory dump may help you.

o Time to check the hash for these three implicated files:
Name: fltMgr.sys
Size: 430392 bytes (420 KiB)
SHA256: 6390C3D54E955C42E73B74B1FDFB7BA45965DCBA273B34EDADAC265ADCDD9731
(Implicated by the crash logs.)

Name: ntoskrnl.exe
Size: 10847552 bytes (10 MiB)
SHA256: A577850D67D1B4DF94E64B3309169E20F3850D4BFA54C40DC9F4F09722E2F5EA
(Implicated by the crash logs.)

Name: win32kbase.sys
Size: 2951680 bytes (2882 KiB)
SHA256: 0BE65ECF2983B13A8C25687A5695A2542D184DEC45DD28C7D38190F25C06B3DF
(Implicated by an earlier BSOD message.)

o But nothing seems to be wrong with those the implicated files:
Win+R > cmd {control+shift+enter}
sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\drivers\fltmgr.sys (runs in a second)
sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe (takes a second to run)
sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\win32kbase.sys (runs in a second)

o I also ran the following commands, all of which came up clean:
sfc /scannow (mine took about 10 minutes for the first run)
sfc /scannow (mine took about 4 minutes for the second run)
sfc /scannow (mine took about 4 minutes for the third run)
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth (mine took five seconds)
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth (mine took thirteen minutes)
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth (mine took about ten minutes)
sfc /scannow (mine took about seven minutes for this last run)

o Ran BlueScreenView which used C:\Windows\MiniDump implicating the same files:
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhkfvD9x/newbsod21.jpg>

Dump File: 092520-31906-01.dmp
Crash Time: 9/25/2020 9:28:05 PM
Bug Check Code: 0x0000013a
Parameter 1: 00000000'00000012
Parameter 2: ffffca08'53202100
Parameter 3: ffffca08'58beb000
Parameter 4: 00000000'00000000
Caused by Driver: FLTMGR.SYS
Caused by Address: FLTMGR.SYS+aa2f
Processor: x64
Crash Address: ntoskrnl.exe+3f3ea0
Full Path: C:\Windows\Minidump\092520-31906-01.dmp
Processors Count: 4
Major Version: 15
Minor Version: 19041
Dump File Size: 602,252
Dump File Time: 9/25/2020 9:39:31 PM

o Googling for what fltmgr.sys is, a problem is every scam on the planet
tells you a teeny tiny bit about the file, and then tries to sell you
their driver fixit tools.
o What Is Fltmgr.sys?
<https://www.partitionwizard.com/disk-recovery/fltmgr-sys.html>
It's a MS Windows file related to the file system filter manager.
It's used to make sure all files stay in their proper locations.

o What Is Fltmgr?
<https://www.file.net/process/fltmgr.sys.html>
Microsoft Filesystem Filter Manager is an essential Windows process
that allows installed files to be placed into their respective directories.
This utility is installed with the Windows OS, and is only triggered
when a minifilter driver is loaded. The Filter manager then connects
with the files system stack for a target volume.

o What causees FltMgr.sys Errors?
<https://www.personalcomputerfixes.com/how-to-prevent-fltmgr-sys-blue-screen-errors/>
The fltmgr.sys error is caused when Windows cannot read or process files
that are on the hard drive, usually because the File System Manager is
damaged or unreadable. If this is the case, it can cause hard drives
to stop working and the blue screen to appear.

o Googling for what ntoskrnl is,

o Googling for what win32kbase.sys is, I find the same scam tactics:
o ntoskrnl.exe (Wikipedia)
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntoskrnl.exe>
In computing ntoskrnl.exe (short for Windows NT operating system kernel
executable), also known as kernel image, provides the kernel and
executive layers of the Microsoft Windows NT kernel space.

o Fix Ntoskrnl.exe BSOD on WIndows 10
<https://www.partitionwizard.com/disk-recovery/ntoskrnlexe-bsod.html>

o What causes the ntoskrnl.exe error?
<https://www.auslogics.com/en/articles/fix-ntoskrnl-exe-bsod/>
There's no one thing that could be said to be the cause.
The issue could be software or hardware related.
But the possible factors include:
Your device drivers are outdated, corrupt, or incompatible.
Faulty RAM.
Your RAM and local storage may be inadequate.
You overclocked your devices.
Some of your system files are corrupt.

o I checked my driver update which says I'm updated just fine:
Win+I > Update & Security > Windows Update > [Check for updates]

o I bit and tried the "auslogics driver update" but it will only update
three drivers every 4 hours (go figure).

<https://www.auslogics.com/en/articles/fix-ntoskrnl-exe-bsod/>
<https://downloads.auslogics.com/en/driver-updater/driver-updater-setup.exe>

Name: driver-updater-setup.exe
Size: 12768144 bytes (12 MiB)
SHA256: A9A07BCDF2D9663FC54B42DC2E754BD9AADABD8DA9D7CF428618808B7F076F81
C:\Program Files (x86)\Auslogics\Driver Updater
C:\app\hardware\driver\auslogic_driver_updater

When I ran the crippleware, it said:
ATTENTION: 10 drivers on your PC are either outdated or corrupt.

AMD SMBus Installed 8/30/2017 Available 9/25/2018 Outdated
PCI Standard ISA Bridge Installed 6/21/2006 Available 7/16/2012 Outdated
HID-compliant mouse Installed 6/21/2006 Available 4/24/2010 Outdated
Disk drive Installed 6/21/2006 Available 8/11/2013 Outdated
Microsoft iSCSI Initiator Installed 6/21/2006 Available 11/13/2008 Outdated
Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller Installed 6/21/2006 Available 6/28/2013 Outdated
Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller Installed 6/21/2006 Available 6/28/2013 Outdated
Realtek USB 2.0 Card Reader Installed 3/15/2018 Available 4/1/2019 Outdated
Realtek PCIe GbE Family Controller Installed 4/10/2015 Available 12/6/2018 Outdated
Generic PnP Monitor Installed 6/21/2006 Available 9/16/2010 Outdated

o I tried to update the remaining 7 device drivers manually:
Win+R > devmgmt.msc
And then I right clicked > Update Drivers - HID-Compliant Mouse >
Search automatically for drivers (but all I tested simply reported):
"The best drivers for your device are already installed"

What I'll do is every four hours, I'll update another 3 drivers.

o Googling for a good free driver update tool, I find this article:
o 11 Best Free Driver Updater Tools
<https://www.lifewire.com/free-driver-updater-tools-2619206>
1. Driver Booster
2. DriverPack Solution
3. Snappy Driver Installer
4. Driver Talent
5. DriversCloud
6. DriverIdentifier
7. Free Driver Scout
8. Driver Easy
9. Device Doctor
10. DriverHub
11. DriverMax

Where I opened a thread on what's the best update driver software:
o What's the one free Windows 10 driver update tool you prefer most and why?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/zhWjvKgDBt4>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/-yDz26GC6zA>
--
I'm determined to find out what is causing this BSOD but it's not easy to do!

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 11:18:31 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> It doesn't seem logical to me that you should need any drivers updated.

Hi Mike,
I agree with you for a few reasons, and yet, I felt I needed to
update the drivers for a couple of reasons, none of which,
in and of itself, on either case, is strong.

There are a few reasons to NOT need to update the ten drivers...
1. AMD SMBus Installed 8/30/2017 Available 9/25/2018 Outdated
2. PCI Standard ISA Bridge Installed 6/21/2006 Available 7/16/2012 Outdated
3. HID-compliant mouse Installed 6/21/2006 Available 4/24/2010 Outdated
4. Disk drive Installed 6/21/2006 Available 8/11/2013 Outdated
5. Microsoft iSCSI Initiator Installed 6/21/2006 Available 11/13/2008 Outdated
6. Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller Installed 6/21/2006 Available 6/28/2013 Outdated
7. Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller Installed 6/21/2006 Available 6/28/2013 Outdated
8. Realtek USB 2.0 Card Reader Installed 3/15/2018 Available 4/1/2019 Outdated
9. Realtek PCIe GbE Family Controller Installed 4/10/2015 Available 12/6/2018 Outdated
10. Generic PnP Monitor Installed 6/21/2006 Available 9/16/2010 Outdated

For one, I already ran the Microsoft Driver Verifier for a day sans error:
o Win+R > verifier

For another, Microsoft "should" have been keeping drivers up to date.
o For another, we have no direct indication of those drivers being at fault.

And yet, clearly, every few days, I get a sudden series of BSODs.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/PrNVbMsw/newbsod01.jpg>

Hence, one reason to update those ten drivers could be just
to eliminate those ten drivers from the equation, specifically
for when someone asks me "did you update all the drivers?".

Another reason is that "it shouldn't hurt" to update the drivers,
where I did _learn_ a lot about driver updates since Microsoft
Windows did a _lousy_ job of updating those ten drivers.

Worse, I learned a lot due to my sophomoric mistake of installing
the horridly nasty "DriverPack" freeware software suite:
o <https://www.lifewire.com/driverpack-solution-review-2619194>
o <https://drp.su/en>

Which is essentially a trojan filled with unwanted crapware:
o <https://www.2-viruses.com/remove-driverpack-solution>
o <https://www.safer-networking.org/manual-removal-guide-for-pu-driverpack/>

Which I _still_ haven't recovered from, as the damn thing doesn't
show up in the add-remove programs, nor is it easy to locate an
uninstaller that isn't piling more trojans on top of trojans.

In the end, I ended up updating all ten of those drivers with the
auslogics crippleware, which, while a PITA, seems to have worked,
and best of all, it showed up in add-remove programs so I could
get rid of it the moment I had all ten of those drivers updated.

<https://www.auslogics.com/en/articles/fix-ntoskrnl-exe-bsod/>
<https://downloads.auslogics.com/en/driver-updater/driver-updater-setup.exe>
Name: driver-updater-setup.exe
Size: 12768144 bytes (12 MiB)
SHA256: A9A07BCDF2D9663FC54B42DC2E754BD9AADABD8DA9D7CF428618808B7F076F81

The good news is I learned a _lot_ about these driver updaters.
1. For one, you'd better get a good one, as the driver updater scams abound
2. For another, they report stuff that Microsoft Device Manager doesn't
3. For yet another, they find _different_ things that need updating

I also learned a _lot_ about the flaws in Windows 10 for debugging:
a. How the hell do you tell which system restore point you are using?
b. How the heck do I delete the restore point created by driver pack?
c. What's the difference between the three different crash log files?
%SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP
%SystemRoot%\Minidump\
%LocalAppData%/crashdumps/*.dmp

In summary, if we can find a _good_ driver updater, then it's a good
use of this thread to do so, even as most of us can look up the drivers.

But bear in mind, according to the programs I ran to date, there are
over a hundred drivers - so who wants to be looking up scores and
scores and scores of individual manufacturers' web sites for drivers?

> If your hardware were working properly and you had a relatively virgin
> W10 properly configured for your existing hardware which is not new, or
> a booted linux distro which was operational in the live for a
> 'sufficient' length of time, which in this example would seem to be
> about a week, that either there should NOT be any crash OR any crash
> which occurred would indicate a hardware problem, not software.

I can't disagree what you say, which is essentially that there seems
to be from a few days to a week at most between BSODs, such that a
virgin Linux or Windows should show that BSOD within that week of running.

> It seems to me that you are chasing your tail (or, the 'wrong pony') in
> your strategy for solving your problem.

Well. I am _learning_ a lot, which, let's be realistic, is the main goal.
o And, others are benefiting from that knowledge, which is the next goal.

So all is not lost when we come up with a tutorial for how to track
down a BSOD while you're using the machine that BSOD'd.

In fact, I've already written a good portion of that tutorial,
as I am wont to do, such that it's a step-by-step sequence of
what to set and what to look for when tracking down a BSOD.

Here's a snippet of that nascent & very much WIP tutorial, for example:
Before a BSOD crash...

Set Windows to dump out crash logs:

Win+R > systempropertiesadvanced > Startup and Recovery > [Settings]

System startup > Default operating system > Windows 10
[x]Time to display list of operating systems [10] seconds
[x]Time to display recovery options when needed [30] seconds

System failure
[x]Write an event to the system log

[_]Automatically restart
Write debugging information

[(none)]
[Small memory dump (256 KB)]

[Kernel memory dump]
[Complete memory dump]

[Automatic memory dump] <== use this setting

[Active memory dump]
Dump file: [%SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP]
[_]Overwrite any existing file
[x]Disable automatic deletion of memory dumps when disk space is low

o How to configure system failure and recovery options in Windows
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307973>

o Set these registry keyvalue pairs:
<https://i.postimg.cc/YSBXHK46/newbsod04.jpg>

HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Windows Error Reporting\LocalDumps

[Expandable String Value] DumpFolder = %LOCALAPPDATA%\CrashDumps
[DWORD (32-bit) value] DumpCount = 16 (hex)
[DWORD (32-bit) value] DumpType = 2 (hex)

o How to generate crash dumps on a Windows machine
<https://helpx.adobe.com/xd/kb/how-to-generate-crash-dump-on-windows-machine.html>

o Disable autostart after updates:

Win+R > %windir%\system32\taskschd.msc /s {ctrl+shft+enter}
Win+R > cmd {ctrl+shift+enter} > %windir%\system32\taskschd.msc /s
Task Scheduler Library > Microsoft > Windows > UpdateOrchestrator
Right click on the task named "Reboot_AC" & click "Disable" to disable.

o Disable autostart after crashes:
Win+R > control.exe {ctrl+shift+enter}
View by: Category

System and Security > System > Advanced System Settings
Bring up Startup & Recovery settings:
Startup and Recovery > Settings
Uncheck the system failure automatically-restart option:

System failure
[x]Write an event to the system log

[_]Automatically restart
OK > OK

o Disable faststartup (i.e., fastboot) & hibernate

powercfg /h /type reduced
powercfg /h /type full
Win+R > powercfg.cpl > Choose what the power buttons do >
Change settings that are currently unavailable >
Shutdown settings
DEFAULT:
[x]Turn on fast startup (recommended)
[x]Sleep
[_]Hibernate
[x]Lock
Change to:
[_]Turn on fast startup (recommended)
[x]Sleep
[_]Hibernate
[x]Lock
Note you can have "hibernate" (reduced) without "faststartup";
but you can't have fast startup without hibernate (full or reduced).

Note: Sleep stores in RAM what Hibernate stores in "Hiberfile.sys".

If you still have a C:\hyberfile.sys, you didn't disable hibernation.

o Disable both types of sleep

Win+R > powercfg.cpl
Change when the computer sleeps
DEFAULT:
Turn off the display > 10 minutes
Put the computer to sleep > 30 minutes
Change to:
Turn off the display > Never
Put the computer to sleep > Never
Sleep > allow hybrid sleep = Off
Change advanced power settings (note 0 means never).
Note: Sleep stores in RAM what Hibernate stores in "Hiberfile.sys".

o Clean up the system files:
<https://i.postimg.cc/1377tygK/newbsod07.jpg>
Win+R > cmd {Control+Shift+Enter} >
time

sfc /scannow (mine took about 10 minutes for the first run)
sfc /scannow (mine took about 4 minutes for the second run)
sfc /scannow (mine took about 4 minutes for the third run)
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth (mine took five seconds)
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth (mine took thirteen minutes)
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth (mine took about ten minutes)

sfc /scannow (mine took about seven minutes for this penultimate run)
<https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/bsod-systemserviceexception-win32kbasesys/1de149cd-2c4b-4a98-8af3-0553624e61e4>

o Create a named good system restore point:
Win+R > SystemPropertiesProtection > [Create]

It may even be a good idea to create a duplicate second restore point
(for when Windows repeatedly boots ad infinitum in the repair process).

o Run the Check Disk utility at the next boot:
<https://i.postimg.cc/1377tygK/newbsod07.jpg>
Win+R > cmd {Control+Shift+Enter}
chkdsk /f C:

shutdown.exe /r /f /t 5 /c "Reboot in 5 seconds"

During a BSOD crash...
a. Note the time of the crash (to help find information in the event logs)
b. Note the percent completion of the dump & any message (incl. file names)
c. Note how many times the OS was forced to reboot before a login prompt

After a BSOD crash...

o Run the Windows Reliability Monitor:

Win+R > perfmon /rel
Which said:

<https://i.postimg.cc/nrxjF24w/newbsod05.jpg>
<newbsod10.jpg>

After a logged crash, there was more information:
The previous system shutdown at 11:09:19 PM on 9/25/2020 was unexpected.

(1) Problem: Shut down unexpectedly 9/25/2020 9:39 PM

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
Code: 13a
Parameter 1: 12
Parameter 2: ffffca0853202100
Parameter 3: ffffca0858beb000
Parameter 4: 0
OS version: 10_0_19041
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1
OS Version: 10.0.19041.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033

(2) Problem: Windows stopped working 9/25/2020 9:39 PM

Description
The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.

The bugcheck was: 0x0000013a (0x0000000000000012, 0xffffca0853202100, 0xffffca0858beb000, 0x0000000000000000).

A dump was saved in: C:\Windows\MEMORY.DMP.
Report Id: ba013a5c-613d-4fae-9d5a-a26f9ab3b1af.

o Run the Windows Event Viewer

Win+R > eventvwr.msc
EventViewer (Local) > Windows Logs > System > (right click)
Filter Current Log > Event IDs = 41, 1074, 6006, 6008

o How to Read Shutdown and Restart Event Logs in Windows
<https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/78335-read-shutdown-logs-event-viewer-windows.html>

o Run WhoCrashed to analyze the primary crash log:
%SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP

o Run BlueScreenView to analyze the secondary crash log:
%SystemRoot%\Minidump\

o I have absolutely no idea which program uses these tertiary crash log:
%LocalAppData%/crashdumps/*.dmp

o Verify individually implicated system files:

sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\win32kbase.sys (runs in a second)

sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\drivers\FLTMGR.SYS (runs in a second)

sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe (takes a second to run)

o Try to figure out what system restore point it restored you to:
?How?

> The principle obstacle you are running into here is that you aren't
> putting the problem machine 'on the bench' in its operation, but instead
> you find it necessary to use it as your daily driver, which in this case
> opens the door to 'chaotic' confusion about what is causing your BSOD.

Ah, but my strategic goal is to write up a tutorial for how to figure out
what is causing a random BSOD that is happening intermittently to the
system you are currently using.

It's a worthy goal given most people getting a BSOD are getting it on
a system that they're using, right?

> There has been a lot of time spent to still be in the position of not
> knowing what compartment the problem lies.

The time was spent _learning_ about Windows, where there are still many
questions to answer that are worthy to answer, such as:
a. What's a good driver updater freeware tool anyway?
b. How can we delete the restore point created by driver pack?
c. How can we tell which restore point Windows eventually settled on?
d. What is the difference between the three different crash logs?
%SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP
%SystemRoot%\Minidump\
%LocalAppData%/crashdumps/*.dmp
e. How to stress test the hardware (all of it, not just the GPU/CPU/Memory)?
etc.

Did you ever take Chemistry or Biology or Physics in college, Mike?
o They all have labs right?

They could teach you everything _without_ the lab, right?
o But the lab adds _experience_ to what would otherwise just be knowledge.
--
I consider this BSOD journey a lab into how Windows really works.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 19:29:55 +0200, Michael Logies wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 04:36:59 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
> <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:
>
>>o Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?
>
> You can find out with a full dump which is then analyzed with "Who
> crashed": Try the home edition:
> https://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed

Hi Michael Logies,
I thank you for hazarding help as I'm well aware every post on
Usenet is a risky endeavor, where I just want to caution folks
that a "full dump" isn't as easy to set up as one might think.

I have 16GB RAM for example, where there are indications that
a full memory dump can't even be accomplished for more than
2GB of RAM, although I'm not quite certain about that.

The point is that the pagefile has to be understood better than
I understand it at the moment just to _create_ a full dump, so,
that's my only caution on a full dump.

In addition, I've enabled all three types of dumps, but I have
literally no idea what the difference is between them. Do you?
o %SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP
o %SystemRoot%\Minidump\092520-31906-01.dmp
o %LocalAppData%/crashdumps/082120-21984-01.dmp

>>OK. But how do we update all the outdated drivers?
>
> I would avoid that. You may run into new problems.

Yes. But.
o It's still useful to learn _how_ to update the drivers, isn't it?

For example, auslogics told me I have over 100 drivers that need to be
considered, where ten of them required updates, according to them.

To _check_ a hundred drivers manually can be done, but it would be a PITA,
would it not? Why not have a program check them in minutes when it would
take me hours to not only check them, but to find their respective
manufacturers' web sites to download those 100 drivers.

Worse, both Windows Update and the Device Manager _failed_ to recognize
those drivers were outdated. Sure, it probably doesn't matter - but why
didn't Windows know about them?

That's why it is still useful to know _how_ to update drivers on Windows.

Note as an aside, auslogics had an option, on by default, for only signed
drivers, which is a good thing, and they have an option, as I recall, to
save the drivers, which is another good thing for re-use.

> I would take care
> only for the one driver that causes the problem. Usually it is the
> graphic driver.

I'm lucky that I have two graphics drivers to cause problems! :)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/BnMXSWXb/bsod105.jpg>

One is the ATI Radeon integrated with the motherboard, and the other is an
Nvidia GEForce 210 PCI card that I only recently re-activated (the BSOD
happens with either one so I have no reason to suspect the graphics
directly anyway).
o <https://i.postimg.cc/g0mndzYf/bsod103.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/MXJzD5Hh/bsod104.jpg>

Both have their software drivers updated as far as I can tell.

> Then try different versions of the graphic driver.

I was hoping you wouldn't suggest testing the myriad permutations and
combinations of the graphics drivers themselves. :)

Note that I have tested the hardware with Hrens Boot CD USB already:
o Tutorial creating & using Hirens Boot CD & MemTest86 diagnostic stress
testing tools for USB boot to Windows 10 PE & WinXPmini on BIOS & UEFI
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/VWG0NNyGNHc>

Which means the most common culprit, the memory, has tested good:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/KY1Yk4WP/memtest02.jpg>

And bear in mind I already tested for 24 hours all the drivers using:
<https://i.postimg.cc/vTnqk9GC/bsod100.jpg>
o Win+R > Verifier
Which didn't report any problems with _any_ drivers while in use,
and where the graphics driver was stressed with a host of stress-testing
software as per this thread:

o What PC hardware diagnostic stress-testing freeware can you recommend?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/dkkdOmL95d8>

Also note that WhoCrashed implicated both fltmgr.sys & ntoskrnl.exe:
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y28Z9HFn/newbsod20.jpg>
o c:\windows\system32\drivers\fltmgr.sys (implicated in crash logs)
o c:\windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe (secondarily indicated in crash logs)

And note that the BSOD message implicated win32kbase.sys:
<https://i.postimg.cc/PrNVbMsw/newbsod01.jpg>
o c:\windows\system32\win32kbase.sys (implicated in BSOD screen message)

But note that they all tested clean multiple times, each & every one:
<https://i.postimg.cc/1377tygK/newbsod07.jpg>
Both individually:
o Win+R > cmd {Control+Shift+Enter}

sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\win32kbase.sys (runs in a second)
sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\drivers\FLTMGR.SYS (runs in a second)
sfc /verifyfile=c:\windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe (takes a second to run)

And collectively:
o Win+R > cmd {Control+Shift+Enter}

sfc /scannow (mine took about 10 minutes for the first run)
sfc /scannow (mine took about 4 minutes for the second run)
sfc /scannow (mine took about 4 minutes for the third run)
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth (mine took five seconds)
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth (mine took thirteen minutes)
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth (mine took about ten minutes)

sfc /scannow (mine took about seven minutes for this last run)

chkdsk /f C:
shutdown.exe /r /f /t 5 /c "Reboot in 5 seconds"

> I had to downgrade the latest graphic driver because it causes problems.
> After standby I could not wake up the monitor anymore, though the PC
> was still running and working fine.

Understood on the monitor not waking up, which is why all my boots
nowadays are "cold" with a separate power strip tied to not only
the desktop power supply but also the multiple monitors, where,
sometimes I can't wake up the monitors either, and other times I
don't even get a POST (but that's never the first issue found):
o <https://i.postimg.cc/nhbj56L2/newbsod10.jpg>
--
I consider this effort a "lab" much like how Physics, Biology, and
Chemistry have labs in order to convert knowledge into experience.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

The only update I want to make, since it irks me when people don't close
the loop after getting such excellent & friendly help, is that I haven't
had a BSOD for, oh, let me see based on my restore point logs...
Win+R > systempropertiesprotection

The last BSOD was 9/27 at 3am.
I swapped the order of the memory, but I doubt that made any difference.
I also ran a series of sfc and dism and check-disk commands.

The BSOD crash logs implicated fltmgr.sys first, and ntoskrnl.exe next, but
if you google them, you'll find 99% bullshit (spam crap for software to
"clean up your computer") and barely 1% real technical advice, all of it
being to just run the sfc, dism, and check-disk commands & to update
drivers.

So I did all that.

Dunno if anything else has improved, but all the drivers that would update
are updated, using Dumo crippleware, Auslogics crippleware, & DriverPack
crapware, even as Windows itself never complained about the drivers via:
Win+R > verifier
Win+R > devmgmt.msc
Win+I > Update & Security

And worse, Windows refuses to even say that the drivers need updating, so
it's hard to blame Windows for that.

The machine is almost always running, so there have been plenty of chances
for a BSOD, but I'll let you know if/when the next one happens.

It's only fair since you spent your valuable time & energy to help me.

[Arlen Holder]

REFERENCE:

Parent thread:

o Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/oL7PTNKu/windows-10-bsod-indicates-a-hardware-problem-but-what-hardware-is-the-problem>
<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1110105>

Offshot threads:
o What's the one free Windows 10 driver update tool you prefer most & why?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/-yDz26GC6zA>

o Tutorial: How to update a driver that Windows just doesn't want to update
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/a23fY9CM6rY>

o Tutorial: How to delete a specific restore point in Windows 10 (e.g., after an errant program such as driverpack created it!)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/MbtX0Y_U0dg>

o Tutorial creating & using Hirens Boot CD & MemTest86 diagnostic stress testing tools for USB boot to Windows 10 PE & WinXPmini on BIOS & UEFI

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/OlpQK3Uy7K8>

o What PC hardware diagnostic stress-testing freeware can you recommend?

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/a6aAvxnDRB8>

o What else in Win10 can we turn off that hinders successful rebooting after a BSOD event that can chew up the operating system?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/DlMnG1klEhc>

o What does it mean when a CPU won't wake up from its S3 state?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/YJw0idlompc>

o Is there an option to completely shut off a Windows 10 desktop (not just go to sleep, hibernate, or fastboot)?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/WVUpUtA_ExA>

o Windows 10 v2004 update repeatedly fails to update non existent keyboard but keeps trying forever (how to stop that nonsense?)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/Npcs-xbnQdU>

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 14:45:14 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> Does all of this mean that you are convinced that your 'entire' (for
> some metric of that word) BSOD problem/s revolve/s around a driver/s issue?

Hi Mike,

Regarding these two new tutorials today:

o Tutorial: How to update a driver that Windows just doesn't want to update
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/a23fY9CM6rY>

o Tutorial: How to delete a specific restore point in Windows 10
(e.g., after an errant program such as driverpack created it!)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/MbtX0Y_U0dg>

Good question, which I appreciate, since you've helped me hone the method.
o Do I think it's a driver? Hell no. (but see below)

But I'm following EXACTLY what you & I agreed was a good plan on Sept 9th
o Dedoimedo: Windows BSOD analysis - A thorough usage guide
<https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-bsod.html>

That method _requires_ following the trail of the crash logs themselves:
o <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/dkkdOmL95d8/0woKkTvuBwAJ>
o <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/dkkdOmL95d8/hZ0cktmbBwAJ>

The crash logs tell me what to suspect.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/Y28Z9HFn/newbsod20.jpg>

Those crash logs implicate fltrmgr.sys & ntoskrn.exe (and win32kbase.sys).
o <https://i.postimg.cc/nhkfvD9x/newbsod21.jpg>

The most important is the "fltrmgr.sys", which, when I google, implicates
drivers, almost every time, if not every time; but, much to my dismay,
99% of the hits are scams, and the remaining 1% all say the same thing.
o Drivers... drivers... drivers... and more drivers...

In summary, I have no choice what to suspect as I'm following the plan you
and I outlined from Dedoimedo almost a month ago. That plan had me create
and analyze crash logs, which themselves lead me to fltrmgr.sys crashes.

And _every_ hit on the net says fltrmgr is due, in great part, to drivers.

Hence, I'm updating all my drivers, which, you'd think would be easy, but
it's not as easy as you'd think because not only does Windows not feel like
telling you about updated drivers it must know about ('cuz they're in the
Microsoft Catalog), but, Windows doesn't even feel like updating the
drivers even when you point Device Manager to them.

So I had to learn all about how to figure out what drivers exist that have
updates (out of a hundred devices on your system) but that Windows refuses
to tell you that it knows about them - and even when you point Windows
directly to those updated drivers, half the time Windows won't update them
(unless you know the tricks I was forced to learn).

Hence the (improved) title of this thread:
o How to identify/locate/install drivers Windows doesn't feel like updating.

> Is the concept that some previously properly operational driver or
> drivers somehow became corrupted? Or perhaps that some W10 update
> 'rendered' previously properly operational drivers (to become) faulty?
> Or some other concept I don't quite get yet?

As I said above, the only concept is I'm following the prescribed Dedoimedo
regimen titled "Windows BSOD analysis - A thorough usage guide" which we
both agreed seemed like a decent plan, way back on Sept 9th.

That "BSOD analysis plan" led me to "fltrmgr.sys" for the most part, which
if you've ever tried searching for in conjunction with BSOD, you'll have a
bit of understanding of my plight.

Out of 100 hits, 99 of them will be complete bullshit, all copy pasta, with
the punch line being you have to buy their driver-fixit tool.

The one hit that isn't copy pasta spam will tell you that you have to
update your drivers.

If you ask me if I think it's the drivers, I'd tell you no way... as I've
already tested the drivers with "Win+R > verifier"; but I'm only doing what
we agreed upon on September 9th was a good plan, which is EXACTLY as stated
here (for some metric of "exactly" in terms of what worked on my system):
o Dedoimedo Windows BSOD analysis - A thorough usage guide
<https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-bsod.html>
--
I don't think anyone knows really, how to debug BSODs on Windows like mine.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE <https://i.postimg.cc/HnY00z47/winbsod01b.jpg>

Got my first BSOD since 9/26 when I awoke this morning:
o Your device ran into a problem and needs to restart.
o We're just collecting some error info, and then you can restart.
o 100% complete
o Unexpected kernel mode trap
<https://i.postimg.cc/HnY00z47/winbsod01b.jpg>

Machine runs 24/7 with sleep, hibernate, fastboot all turned off
o Also disabled are reboot-after-crash & reboot after update

That way, I get the information from the BSOD screen
o And the machine doesn't restore to older RPs without me knowing it

All drivers have been updated to the latest I can possibly find:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/CKjgVNKK/driver16.jpg>

I shut down the machine to a cold state (light off the motherboard & PS)
o Then I shuffled the 4 memory cards, outside to middle, middle to outside

Then I did the cold reboot process with monitors on the power strip
o And the machine booted to the login prompt without argument

I immediately created a new restore point, so that I know where I was:
o Win+R > systempropertiesprotection > [Create]

I then ran "WhoCrashed", but it only sees the crash dumps from 9/26.
o Next I ran BlueScreenView, which also only sees the 9/26 crash logs.

Why doesn't this new BSOD today create a crash log file?

Let's check the "automatic memory dump" settings:

Win+R > systempropertiesadvanced > Startup and Recovery > [Settings]

Default Operating system:
[Windows 10]
System startup:

[x]Time to display list of operating systems [10]seconds
[x]Time to display recovery options when needed [30]seconds
System failure:
[x]Write an event to the system log
[_]Automatically restart
Write debugging information

[Automatic memory dump]
Dump file:
[%SystemRoot%\memory.dmp]

[_]Overwrite any existing file
[x]Disable automatic deletion of memory dumps when disk space is low

Maybe I need to have checked the "overwrite" button?
o I would have presumed it can make a new one next to it?

For now, I checked the overwrite button...
o Whenever I get a crash log, I can manually copy it to a safe place

I ran these move commands to ensure the log name is available:
o Win+R > cmd {control+shift+enter}
o move %SystemRoot%\memory.dmp c:\data\sys\bsod\20200925_memory.dmp
o move %SystemRoot%\Minidump\092520-31906-01.dmp c:\data\sys\bsod\.
o move %LocalAppData%\crashdumps\*.dmp c:\data\sys\bsod\.

I decided to change my page size from the default 2.5GB managed by Windows
to more than my memory (> 16GB) just in case that will help gather info.

Win+R > systempropertiesadvanced > Performance > [Settings] > [Advanced]
Virtual memory Total paging file size for all drives: 2432 MB [Change]
[x]Automaticaly manage paging file size for all drivers
Uncheck that... and select
(o)Custom size
Initial size (MB): 9216
Maximum size (MB): 9216
(it says I need to reboot.)

As usual, I ran these obligatory steps after the BSOD:
1. sfc /scannow (should take about 10 minutes for the first run)
Windows Resource Protection did not find any integrity violations.
2. sfc /scannow (should take about 4 minutes for the second run)
3. sfc /scannow (should take about 4 minutes for the third run)
4. Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth (should take 5 seconds)
No component store corruption detected.
5. Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth (should take about 13 minutes)
6. Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth should take about 10 minutes)
7. sfc /scannow (should take about 7 minutes for this last run)
8. chkdsk /f /r C:
9. shutdown.exe /r /f /t 5 /c "Reboot in 5 seconds"

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 19:29:38 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
> 8. chkdsk /f /r C:
> 9. shutdown.exe /r /f /t 5 /c "Reboot in 5 seconds"

Just to finish up explaining how to recover from a BSOD...

The check disk /r /f ran to completion after rebooting:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/668bjhqk/winbsod02.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/RC2sjnnN/winbsod03.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/dtdHvt8n/winbsod04.jpg>

The checkdisk logs show zero errors:
<https://i.postimg.cc/PrYYXx5L/winbsod05.jpg>
o Win+R > eventvwr
o Event Viewer (Local) > Windows Logs > Application
o Find > wininit > [Find Next]

A disk check has been scheduled.
Windows will now check the disk.

Stage 1: Examining basic file system structure ...

0 bad file records processed.

Stage 2: Examining file name linkage ...

0 unindexed files recovered to lost and found.

Stage 3: Examining security descriptors ...

Usn Journal verification completed.

Stage 4: Looking for bad clusters in user file data ...

File data verification completed.

Stage 5: Looking for bad, free clusters ...

Free space verification is complete.

Windows has scanned the file system and found no problems.
No further action is required.

0 KB in bad sectors
Total duration: 55.69 minutes (3341634 ms).

In summary, when you get a BSOD, those sfc & DISM & chkdsk steps are
veritably required to ensure the integrity of your Windows file system.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE: (each time I report on new ways to recover from & debug BSODs)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/1RGDjbGV/driver23.jpg> Penultimate update version
o <https://i.postimg.cc/zffNRLNS/bsod201.jpg> BSOD Registry Error
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QxqG78PJ/driver24.jpg> Dumo reports another version
o <https://i.postimg.cc/XYb7X7XQ/bsod202.jpg> Corrupt Windows Memory.dmp
o <https://i.postimg.cc/3xFrG5v7/bsod203.jpg> 6:10am Registry Error
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hGCSCLs5/bsod204.jpg> 3:12am SearchApp RPC failed

Yesterday I wiped out all Nvidia drivers
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fbzFCtVk/driver19.jpg>
And then, I rebooted to let Windows update all the Nvidia drivers itself:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QCTnCcyY/driver22.jpg>
I then updated just the Nvidia sound drivers to the penultimate version.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/1RGDjbGV/driver23.jpg>
Which was the best I could do, despite Dumo saying there's a later version:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QxqG78PJ/driver24.jpg>

This is what Windows updated the drivers to when I deleted them & rebooted:
o Display adapters > NVIDIA GeForce 210
Driver Version: 21.21.13.4201 Driver Date: 11/14/2016
o Sound, video and game controllers > NVIDIA High Definition Audio
Driver Version: 1.3.30.1 Driver Date: 11/14/2016

This is what I manually updated the Nvidia drivers to late last night:
<https://i.postimg.cc/1RGDjbGV/driver23.jpg>
o Display adapters > NVIDIA GeForce 210
Driver Version: 21.21.13.4201 Driver Date: 11/14/2016
o Sound, video and game controllers > NVIDIA High Definition Audio
Driver Version: 1.3.38.34 Driver Date: 11/14/2016
Note: That is one less than the latest Dumo reports (1.3.38.35)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/QxqG78PJ/driver24.jpg>

After multiple reboots, all was well until this morning's BSOD.
o Which may or may not be related

Today I got a brand new BSOD, with concomitant inability to boot.

o Your device ran into a problem and needs to restart.

We're just collecting some error info, and then you can restart.

0% complete, REGISTRY ERROR
o <https://i.postimg.cc/zffNRLNS/bsod201.jpg>

The first thing after the 6am BSOD was I ran "WhoCrashed"
o But it reported, strangely, that the memory dump was corrupted
<https://i.postimg.cc/XYb7X7XQ/bsod202.jpg>

The second thing I did after the BSOD was run "BlueScreenView"
o Which specifically didn't implicate any drivers
<https://i.postimg.cc/3xFrG5v7/bsod203.jpg>

The third thing I did was to check the appcrash logs in "AppCrashView"
o But it only reported an older 3am RPC failure from 3 hours prior
<https://i.postimg.cc/hGCSCLs5/bsod204.jpg>

In summary...

I'm getting better at BSOD aftermath control, where I can at least get back
to the operating system afterward, particularly as I'm noticing perhaps a
correlation with the "0% complete" (versus 100% complete) with the need to
reseat the memory sticks before the machine will recover after the BSOD.

Here's a quick summary of what happened:
a. Who knows if it's related but I updated the Nvidia drivers last night
b. At 3am, while I was sleeping, a MS app crashed with a RPC error
c. At 5am, I used the machine for about an hour oblivious to any issues
d. At 5:30am, the display locked up (frozen mouse & keboard)
e. But the machine rebooted fine thereafter
f. At 6am the machine BSOD crashed with a Registry Error
g. The machine took multiple reboots since it wouldn't recover
h. What made it recover, again, was reseating the memory
i. This time, I removed all four sticks & put only one in (4GB)
j. As before, the machine booted after messing with the memory cards
k. Nonetheless, the memory.dmp was corrupted (this is new to me)
l. And there were no other app crash logs to be found (this is normal)
--
Bear in mind the memory has tested good with Memtest84 v4 (for BIOS).

[Andy]

Did you ever find the problem i would have rolled back the Nvidea driver i
had that problem once and rolling the driver back fixed it until they
relised a fixed updated driver the next month.


--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Arlen Holder" <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote in message
news:rli0cb$tqb$1...@news.mixmin.net...

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 03:30:16 -0400, Andy wrote:

> Did you ever find the problem i would have rolled back the Nvidea driver i
> had that problem once and rolling the driver back fixed it until they
> relised a fixed updated driver the next month.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for sticking with this since there are three things I am wont to do:
1. I always (almost always, eventually) figure out the problem cause, and,
2. I often try to learn as much as I can about debugging in the process,
3. And, I sometimes write up the gory details in the form of tutorials.

Hence, everyone benefits from any troubleshooting we collectively do.

To that end of troubleshooting, I've learned a lot, and I've stress tested
a lot, but I haven't yet definitively figured out the problem - but I do
not think it's the Nvidia drivers, if only because the BSOD happened even
after I had the Nvidia card removed from the system for months
(since the AMD-based motherboard has its own graphics output).

So I put the Nvidia GeForce 210 card back into the PCI slot, and it
BSOD'd with or without that specific graphics card being involved.

As you may be aware, I tested the memory (Memtest86 v4 for BIOS) for
24 hours, but I still think it "may" be memory related simply because,
consistently, when I reshuffle the memory, the boot-after-BSOD is
successful every time, whereas if I don't reshuffle the memory cards,
that's not always the case (yes, I know it's flimsy evidence).

I've tested all the drivers using Microsoft "Verifier.exe", and
I've updated all the drivers that could be updated (using Dumo to
tell me what's available), and I've identified the memory location
where the BSOD occurred
o ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x3F3EA0)
Bugcheck code: 0x139 (0x3, 0xFFFFF30F99097970, 0xFFFFF30F990978C8, 0x0)
o ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!setjmpex+0x8279)
Bugcheck code: 0x139 (0x3, 0xFFFFF30F99097970, 0xFFFFF30F990978C8, 0x0)

I'm slowly coming to grips with how to proceed to debug _that_ error.
o Meanwhile I'm running a long-term physical test of the memory sticks

Right now, I have memory card 1 (of 4) in one of the four slots.
It hasn't BSOD'd since I did that - but of course - that tells me nothing.

However, what I plan on doing is putting that memory card in all
four slots, and if it still doesn't BSOD for a while,
I'm gonna "presume" tentatively that it's not the slots.

I might then do the same with memory card 2, but overall,
there are so many permutations and combinations I can run
with the four memory slots and four memory cards that if ONE slot
or ONE card is bad, I think the BSOD may finger it.

Dunno yet... but every single day I try something new;
it's just that most of the time there's nothing to report.

Here's a synopses of some of the related threads though...

o Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/oL7PTNKu/windows-10-bsod-indicates-a-hardware-problem-but-what-hardware-is-the-problem>
<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1110105>

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/u0ay9h777Wg>

o What's the one free Windows 10 driver update tool you prefer most & why?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/-yDz26GC6zA>

o Tutorial: How to update a driver that Windows just doesn't want to update
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/a23fY9CM6rY>

o Tutorial: How to delete a specific restore point in Windows 10 (e.g., after an errant program such as driverpack created it!)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/MbtX0Y_U0dg>

o Tutorial creating & using Hirens Boot CD & MemTest86 diagnostic stress testing tools for USB boot to Windows 10 PE & WinXPmini on BIOS & UEFI
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/OlpQK3Uy7K8>

o What PC hardware diagnostic stress-testing freeware can you recommend?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/a6aAvxnDRB8>

o What else in Win10 can we turn off that hinders successful rebooting after a BSOD event that can chew up the operating system?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/DlMnG1klEhc>

o What does it mean when a CPU won't wake up from its S3 state?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/YJw0idlompc>

o Is there an option to completely shut off a Windows 10 desktop (not just go to sleep, hibernate, or fastboot)?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/WVUpUtA_ExA>

o Windows 10 v2004 update repeatedly fails to update non existent keyboard but keeps trying forever (how to stop that nonsense?)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/Npcs-xbnQdU>

o Tutorial creating & using Hirens Boot CD & MemTest86 diagnostic stress testing tools for USB boot to Windows 10 PE & WinXPmini on BIOS & UEFI

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/VWG0NNyGNHc>

o What PC hardware diagnostic stress-testing freeware can you recommend?

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/dkkdOmL95d8>

o What does it mean when the Event Viewer (eventvwr.msc) says "Report Sent"?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/WG9y9YNVeH4>

Together, there must be hundreds of annotated screenshots so people
can see exactly what's going on, such as these in just one post
in that last thread.
a. I received a BSOD today which I am methodically diagnosing step by step.
<https://i.postimg.cc/k4Hssdpr/bsod205.jpg>
b. One of the score of steps is to see what the event viewer tells me.
<https://i.postimg.cc/0Qh3QmxJ/eventvwr01.jpg>
c. I noticed some events cause a report to be generated and then "sent".
<https://i.postimg.cc/mZMpjPB8/eventvwr02.jpg>
d. Others cause a report to be generated, but, apparently not to be "sent".
<https://i.postimg.cc/63ZcMPJy/eventvwr03.jpg>
e. Still others, cause a report neither to be generated nor to be "sent".
<https://i.postimg.cc/sg2JkxCF/eventvwr04.jpg>

[Andy]

What i would do is add memory one slot at a time until you get the blue
screen of death again then remove the last stick of memory and if it goes
away you have found the bad stick of memory and yes they can go bad in time.
Especially the cheap off brand ram that is sold for a low price.
I only use PNY for my systems as i don't game.

--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Arlen Holder" <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote in message

news:rmcq95$dr7$5...@news.mixmin.net...

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 03:42:04 -0400, Andy wrote:

> What i would do is add memory one slot at a time until you get the blue
> screen of death again then remove the last stick of memory and if it goes
> away you have found the bad stick of memory and yes they can go bad in time.
> Especially the cheap off brand ram that is sold for a low price.
> I only use PNY for my systems as i don't game.

Hi Andy,

I just snapped this screenshot of what I'm testing right now:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/GpGdHnxs/bsod213.jpg>

I want to thank you as I very much appreciate & much need your advice.
o Particularly because the memory passed a MEMTEST86v4 24-hour test

I'm gonna hone in on those memory cards... or those memory slots on the MB
o Since I've almost exhausted all the testing I can do on the drivers

I've been getting these BSOD's since December of last year, where I haven't
yet pinned it down to the cause, but about the only consistent fact is that
"juggling" the memory cards, seems to make the next boot more reliable
after any given BSOD.

That is, if I get a BSOD and then just reboot, I've documented in this
thread that often, it could takes hours of reboot attempts; but if I simply
"juggle" the memory cards, then the _next_ reboot attempt usually works.

This "juggling" can be that I change the order of the four 4GB memory
cards; or that I put only one card in, where right now I have card #3 in
bank #2, but that was just a random selection after the last BSOD.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/GpGdHnxs/bsod213.jpg>

Interestingly, it has been, oh, maybe over a week since I did that, without
any BSOD (and I've been running driver verifier & CPU stress testing all
along).

What I'll do on my next boot, is, as you suggested, _add_ another memory
card, and then test for at least a week. If that goes well, I'll add
another card, and test for a week. And then add the last card & test.

If the BSOD happens, I "may" have found a bad memory card, which I can then
further test alone by MEMTEST86v4 (for BIOS) or by some other methods.
--
I much appreciate the advice of others because BSOD diagnostics are key.

[Andy]

you are welcome

--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Arlen Holder" <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote in message

news:rmm6kc$3vl$1...@news.mixmin.net...

[Andy]

one other thing i noticed as a build systems for a living your hard drive
should not be sitting upside down on the cardboard it should be label site
up with the proper screws in to the drive and drive mount so you get the
proper heat transfer to the fame of the computer so it does not get to hot
that can cause BSOD as well.
and i would with the system off give the heat sinks and fans a shot of
compressed air to get the dust out of them that will help as well:)
but carefully hold the fan blade so it the air does not make it go super
fast and ruin it.

--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Arlen Holder" <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote in message

news:rmm6kc$3vl$1...@news.mixmin.net...

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 05:15:53 -0400, Andy wrote:

> one other thing i noticed as a build systems for a living your hard drive
> should not be sitting upside down on the cardboard it should be label site
> up with the proper screws in to the drive and drive mount so you get the
> proper heat transfer to the fame of the computer so it does not get to hot
> that can cause BSOD as well.

Hi Andy,
I'm pleasantly surprised you noticed those details - all of which are true!
o I normally have 3 HDDs - but in isolating the BSOD, I removed 2 of them

One of the diagnostic steps was to change the cables & the MB SATA slots
o But constantly removing the bolted-in HDD was getting to be a pain

So I simply stuck cardboard on top of the disconnected metal tray
o And flipped the HDD so that the circuit board wouldn't short on the tray
<https://i.postimg.cc/GpGdHnxs/bsod213.jpg>

And then I forgot about it, and didn't ever put it back together.
o I'll put it back together the proper way which I just did, as shown here:
<https://i.postimg.cc/D06XqtS5/bsod214.jpg>

I need another SATA cable to put the third HDD in place so it's not in yet.

> and i would with the system off give the heat sinks and fans a shot of
> compressed air to get the dust out of them that will help as well:)
> but carefully hold the fan blade so it the air does not make it go super
> fast and ruin it.

Actually, I cleaned them out way back in December with the first BSOD
o But it looks like all four fans may need another can of air.

BTW, the Nvidia GeForce 210 graphics card GPU fan started making noise
o And I couldn't, for the life of me, figure out how to remove it

So I literally oiled it with sewing machine oil with the card removed
o Where you can see a bit of that oil in the photo reproduced below

Oddly enough, that oil quieted down the GPU fan so it's hardly hearable
o I seriously had NOT thought that a physical oiling would have worked

But I don't think the BSOD is due to that card because it BSOD's even
without the graphics card (as the Foxconn MB has its own AMD GPU).
--
Also, the extra CMOS battery is simply because, in troubleshooting, I
replaced everything that was easy to replace - including that battery.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

As per Andy's suggestion, I'm running for a week at a time, almost 24/7
with a few boots in between due to normal operation of the PC, with very
small changes to the memory card situation.

The original memory cards were labeled as per the original slots:
o With four 4GB memory cards labeled 1 to 4 in memory slots 1 to 4.

The only consistent thing about these BSOD's since last December is that
merely shuffling the cards in the memory slots "appears" to make the
machine more reliable for the next boot after a BSOD.

Following up on that only consistent hint, I've been running (randomly
selected) memory card 3 in memory slot 2 as shown in this prior photo:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/GpGdHnxs/bsod213.jpg>

After a week of no BSODs, yesterday I added memory card 1 in slot 4.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/pdLF3041/bsod219.jpg>

In addition, I followed up on Andy's suggestion to secure the HDDs
o Where I need to find a source of the missing special bolts!
<https://i.postimg.cc/D06XqtS5/bsod214.jpg>

In addition, I've noticed that the disk manager shows that crash logs are
enabled, which is a nice doublecheck that you're all set for the next BSoD.
o Have you noticed a "Crash Dump" description when you run disk management?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/FSfbmPq3wlM>
<https://i.postimg.cc/QdMhLy3v/format10.jpg>
--
Diagnosing BSODs turns out to take a million little tests over time.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/L8w5Cxmr/memtest01.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/tCS6LhzB/memtest02.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/xT9T6kj9/memtest03.jpg>

Even though these random BSODs have been occurring since last December, I
haven't had a BSOD in roughly about a week of full-time use of the PC.

The only "new" information I can report to those who read this thread in
the future to isolate, debug, diagnose & solve their BSOD issues is that
I've been running a new HCI MemTest while using the PC, which I think has
huge advantages over the MemTest86 v4 (BIOS) methods previously tried.

I found out about HCI MemTest reading up on Andy's helpful suggestions...
o *How to Test RAM: Making Sure Bad Memory Isn't Crashing Your PC*
<https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/how-to-test-ram>
"One option preferred by us at Tom's Hardware is HCI Design's MemTest.
The good thing about this is you don't have to any pre-booting
and there are no directions. You just run it."

Which prompted me to write this quick tutorials for others to benefit.

o (1) Download MemTest (free)
<https://hcidesign.com/memtest/download.html>
<https://hcidesign.com/memtest/MemTest.zip>
[X:\software\hardware\memory\hcimemtest\MemTest.zip]
Name: MemTest.zip
Size: 17671 bytes (17 KiB)
SHA256: 08960F448F4514E7C2D388420560D7D03F5F0A54EC8F9663D66C887B8E4679E6

o (2) Unzip & move MemTest c:\app\hardware\ram\hcimemtest\
c:\app\hardware\ram\hcimemtest\memtest.exe
Name: memtest.exe
Size: 40960 bytes (40 KiB)
SHA256: 5E2D1B0E56095D4D219F3A606E46CE5DE3220FDF3CF55A6E405D3946F25792A6

o (3) Create a link & SendTo populate your Taskbar accordion cascade menu:
c:\menu\hardware\ram\memtest.lnk
TARGET: C:\app\hardware\ram\hcimemtest\memtest.exe
STARTIN: C:\app\hardware\ram\hcimemtest

o (4) Run HCI MemTest as many times as needed to simultaneously test RAM:
Taskbar > menu > hardware > ram > memtest.lnk
Enter megabytes of RAM to test === All unused RAM
[Start Testing]

Could not allocate 4095 MB
Windows limits the amount of contiguous RAM MemTest can allocate
to between 2 and 3.5GB. To test all your RAM, run more than one copy
of MemTest simultaneously and set each copy to test a portion of
available RAM. Running more than one copy of MemTest does not
lower the quality of the test (and can even improve it if you have
multiple cores or CPUs).

Enter megabytes of RAM to test === 2
[Start Testing]
(instance 1)

o Run Taskbar > menu > hardware > ram > memtest.lnk
Enter megabytes of RAM to test === 2
[Start Testing]
(instance 2)

Currently I've been running HCI Memtest for about a day while using the PC.
o The RAM is at about 200,000% Coverage with 0 errors so far
<https://i.postimg.cc/L8w5Cxmr/memtest01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/tCS6LhzB/memtest02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/xT9T6kj9/memtest03.jpg>
--
The high cost of freeware is in finding & testing for the best out there.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:
o Previous: Caused by address: ntoskrnl.exe+3f3ea0
o Current_: Caused by address: ntoskrnl.exe+3f45a0

IMAGES:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fRngbsGX/bsod220.jpg> KMODE EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fLFHgx4D/bsod221.jpg> Who Crashed
o <https://i.postimg.cc/5ymjPSGR/bsod222.jpg> Blue Screen View
o <https://i.postimg.cc/C5Jrw9XH/bsod223.jpg> App Crash View
o <https://i.postimg.cc/j5937ftw/bsod224.jpg> perfmon /rel shortcut
o <https://i.postimg.cc/d1mbYx62/bsod225.jpg> eventvwr filter shortcut

After stress testing two 4GB RAM sticks for about a week...
o Optimistically, last night I had added the other two 4GB RAM sticks...

Within an hour of adding the last two RAMs, I got a STOP CODE
at 11/1/2020 / 18:47:50 Pacific, according to my EXIF information
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fRngbsGX/bsod220.jpg> KMODE EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED

Here's the approximate dates I added those 4GB memory sticks:
o 10/15/2020 4GB Memory 3 was put in motherboard RAM bank 2
o 10/22/2020 4GB Memory 1 was put in motherboard RAM bank 4
o 11/01/2020 4GB Memory 2 was put in motherboard RAM bank 1
o 11/01/2020 4GB Memory 4 was put in motherboard RAM bank 3
(It's currently running fully populated for stress testing.)

BSOD diagnosis was slowed down by WhoCrashed failing to work:
o Has your current copy of WhoCrashed home free version suddenly expired?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/DV15x2Wuv6k>
Due to (caveat emptor) a hidden secret hard-coded expiry date.

Nonetheless, an updated WhoCrashed eventually worked without failure:
o Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > WhoCrashed
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fLFHgx4D/bsod221.jpg>
"On Sun 11/1/2020 6:46:29 PM

crash dump file: C:\Windows\MEMORY.DMP
This was probably caused by the following module:

ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!HvlPerformEndOfInterrupt+0x4DEE)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF80325325B70, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

On Sun 11/1/2020 6:46:29 PM
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\110120-31890-01.dmp

This was probably caused by the following module:

ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x3F45A0)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF80325325B70, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe

o Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > BlueScreenView
BlueScreenView:
Dump File: 110120-31890-01.dmp
Crash Time: 11/1/2020 7:46:29 PM
Bug Check String: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
Bug Check Code: 0x0000001e
Parameter 1: ffffffff'c0000005
Parameter 2: fffff803'25325b70
Parameter 3: 00000000'00000000
Parameter 4: ffffffff'ffffffff
Caused By Driver: ntoskrnl.exe
Caused By Address: ntoskrnl.exe+3f45a0
Processor: x64
Crash Adddress: ntoskrnl.exe+3f45a0
Full Path: C:\Windows\Minidump\110120-31890-01.dmp

Processors Count: 4
Major Version: 15
Minor Version: 19041

Dump File Size: 470,276
Dump File Date: 11/1/2020 7:56:11 PM

Interestingly, AppCrashView perhaps implicated MS Edge updates!
o Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > AppCrashView
o <https://i.postimg.cc/C5Jrw9XH/bsod223.jpg> App Crash View
TargetAppId=W:<long set of numbers>!setup.exe
TargetAppVer=2020//07//01:03:12:51!3f34d!MicrosoftEdgeUpdate.exe

The Event Viewer didn't tell me all that much that was useful:
o Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > Eventvwr Filter 41, 1074, 6006, 6008
o <https://i.postimg.cc/d1mbYx62/bsod225.jpg>

I ran the obligatory post-BSOD cleanup tasks:
o Win+R > cmd {control+shift+enter}
o stordiag.exe -collectEtw -checkfsconsistency -out %userprofile%\desktop
"Checking for corruption on drive: C
Running chkdsk on drive: C
o sfc /scannow

"Windows Resource Protection did not find any integrity violations."

o findstr /c:"[SR]" %windir%\Logs\CBS\CBS.log >"%userprofile%\Desktop\sfcdetails.txt"
o sfc /scannow
o sfc /scannow
o Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth

"No component store corruption detected."

o Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth

"No component store corruption detected."

o Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth
"The restore operation completed successfully."
o sfc /scannow

"Windows Resource Protection did not find any integrity violations."

o chkdsk /f /r C: (or CHKDSK C: /F /R /X)
"This volume will be checked the next time the system restarts."
o shutdown.exe /r /f /t 5 /c "Reboot in 5 seconds"

o After logging back in, view the checkdisk logs:
Win+R > eventvwr

Event Viewer (Local) > Windows Logs > Application

Select "Filter Current Log"
In the Event sources dropdown, check
[x]Chkdsk
[x]Winit
[OK]

"Windows has scanned the file system and found no problems."

--
If we keep at it, we'll just get better & better at BSOD disgnostics.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/MTHZyGWn/bsod226.jpg> AppCrashView explorer.exe
o <https://i.postimg.cc/RFYSGzFX/bsod227.jpg> Reliability Monitor
o <https://i.postimg.cc/NfmXydJW/bsod228.jpg> Windows Explorer crashed

1. At 9:00:47AM today one monitor locks up, the other goes blank.
2. No amount of mouse or keyboard will revive so I shut down power.
3. A cold reboot doesn't output to the display.
4. A second cold reboot locks up at the Windows flag (no ferris dots).
5. A third cold reboot boots up just fine (go figure).
6. These were all run in sequence:
Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > AppCrashView.lnk
Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > BlueScreenView.lnk
Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > Event Viewer System.lnk
Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > perfmon slash rel.lnk
Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > WhatIsHang.lnk
Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > WhoCrashed.lnk
Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > WhySoSlow.lnk
Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > WinCrashReport.lnk
Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > windows performance analyzer.lnk
Only those that provided data are described below:

7. Taskbar > menu > hardware > BSOD > AppCrashView
Process File = Explorer.EXE
Event Name = Stopped working
Event Time = 11/3/2020 9:00:47 AM
User Name = All Users
Exception Code = 0xc0000005
Exception Code Description = Access Violation
<https://i.postimg.cc/MTHZyGWn/bsod226.jpg

8. Taskbar > menu > hardware > BSOD > perfmonrel.lnk
Description
Faulting Application Path: C:\Windows\explorer.exe
Problem signature
Problem Event Name: BEX64
Application Name: Explorer.EXE
Application Version: 10.0.19041.546
Application Timestamp: 89ce2e55
Fault Module Name: StackHash_9147
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 00000000
Exception Offset: PCH_5E_FROM_ntdll+0x000000000009C8E4
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Data: 0000000000000008

OS Version: 10.0.19041.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033

Additional Information 1: 9147
Additional Information 2: 9147ad64d9a57077d2f68e2ed750d935
Additional Information 3: 0100
Additional Information 4: 0100f3e4f4080a92a2eb4817f09aad31
Bucket ID: 025661765282e16b4984682c43e4e091 (1838709087200927889)
<https://i.postimg.cc/RFYSGzFX/bsod227.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/NfmXydJW/bsod228.jpg>
--
Posted so that others with similar issues have debugging examples.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE

I've been getting BSODs for about a year now, less and less so
as I've honed the parameters and hardened the system, where I
only get a BSOD lately, when I explicitly add the full complement
of four Patriot Viper memory cards in the four memory slots.

I'm pretty sure everyone who suggested it's the memory is correct.
o Although I have a bit more debugging to do.

With only two memory cards in their slots, I haven't had a BSOD in a month:
o Memory 3 in Bank 2; Memory 1 in Bank 4

Yesterday, I added back two of the 4GB Patriot memory cards:
o Memory 3 in Bank 2; Memory 1 in Bank 4
o Memory 2 in Bank 1; Memory 4 in Bank 3

Within an hour, it BSOD'd
o KMODE Exception not handled win32kfull.sys

Of course, I went through the 26 steps we've discussed in this thread...
o But I've come to the conclusion none of the diagnostic steps even matter.

What matters is simple mechanical judicious swapping of memory cards
o Where I'm not sure yet if it's the card, or the slot, or a combination

It's easy to tell though, where I currently have the following test setup:

o Memory 3 in Bank 2; Memory 1 in Bank 4
o Nothing in Bank 1; Memory 4 in Bank 3

I'll publish a 26-step tutorial for others to reference which contains
the 26 key steps I've learned are needed in "many" BSOD situations,
although I reiterate, for a memory flaw, the debugging results show
randomness galore (indicating debugging with software is not fruitful).

Nonetheless, here are some snippets from this most recent BSOD:

Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > WhoCrashed...
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\120320-42421-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: win32kfull.sys (0xFFFF81CEEEB3CAA7)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFF81CEEEB3CAA7, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
file path: C:\Windows\system32\win32kfull.sys

On Mon 11/2/2020 11:46:29 AM your computer crashed or a problem was reported

crash dump file: C:\Windows\MEMORY.DMP
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!HvlPerformEndOfInterrupt+0x4DEE)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF80325325B70, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\110120-31890-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x3F45A0)
Bugcheck code: 0x1E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF80325325B70, 0x0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Error: KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe

file path: C:\Windows\system32\BlueScreenView
120320-42421-01.dmp 12/3/2020 10:41:51 AM KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED ...
win32kfull.sys win32kfull.sys+5caa7 fff81ce'eeae0000 ffff81ce'eee96000 ...

Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > Perfmon_rel
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
Code: 1e
Parameter 1: ffffffffc0000005
Parameter 2: ffff81ceeeb3caa7
Parameter 3: 0
Parameter 4: ffffffffffffffff

OS version: 10_0_19041
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1

OS Version: 10.0.19041.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033

Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > event viewer
Log Name: System
Source: Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power
Date: 12/3/2020 11:14:45 AM
Event ID: 41
Task Category: (63)
Level: Critical
Keywords: (70368744177664),(2)
User: SYSTEM

Taskbar > menu > hardware > bsod > stordiag
C:\Windows\system32>stordiag.exe -collectEtw -checkfsconsistency -out %userprofile%\desktop

Checking for corruption on drive: C
Running chkdsk on drive: C

Done scanning! Output is in C:\Users\%username%\desktop\StorDiag

etc.
--
Note: All the debugging software in the world doesn't seem to ever
pinpoint the problem when the problem is the memory or the slot.

[John Doe]

Can't you "UPDATE" stuff without starting a new thread every time...

--
Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:

> Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
> Subject: Re: Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 13:17:19 -0000 (UTC)
> Organization: Mixmin
> Message-ID: <rqaogv$qep$1...@news.mixmin.net>
> References: <r5bju7$o5u$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rl69cj$e6c$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rl8fsk$9c0$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rlfs71$qut$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rlgk8s$5he$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rli0cb$tqb$1...@news.mixmin.net> <zvCdnQcRldO00RTC...@earthlink.com> <rmcq95$dr7$5...@news.mixmin.net> <iaadnXlsnpN0CRPC...@earthlink.com> <rmm6kc$3vl$1...@news.mixmin.net> <cq-dnbr4ZPl5NxPC...@earthlink.com> <rmmktl$6ma$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rmv5u5$lda$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rn9lug$gdp$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rnpooh$dtc$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rnsdp8$4k3$1...@news.mixmin.net>
> Injection-Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 13:17:19 -0000 (UTC)
> Injection-Info: news.mixmin.net; posting-host="7c176b9a0a2740ff1ffdc8c543f0a33c3c57b379"; logging-data="27097"; mail-complaints-to="ab...@mixmin.net"
> Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org alt.comp.os.windows-10:131596 alt.comp.microsoft.windows:1542

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 13:22:57 -0000 (UTC), John Doe wrote:

> Can't you "UPDATE" stuff without starting a new thread every time...

Hi John Doe,

I've never seen you _ever_ add any value to Usenet, sadly to say
o And you can't even complain properly by fabricating what didn't happen.

This archive clearly & conclusively shows it's the same thread as it has always been.
o <https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/oL7PTNKu/windows-10-bsod-indicates-a-hardware-problem-but-what-hardware-is-the-problem>

If you're actually serious, and not simply trolling us (as you normally do)
o I suggest you learn how to use your own newsreader's threading controls.

Meanwhile, moving forward, I wrote up the tutorial and am testing it now
o It contains the 26 steps for BSOD debugging everyone can benefit from.

Thanks to those who posted purposefully helpful BSOD advice & suggestions!
--
Two kinds of people are on Usenet; those who add value & those who can't.

[JT]

Arlen,

Found this discussion that had the same Fault module name: StackHash_9147

https://www.tenforums.com/general-support/135070-intermittent-bex64-explorer-exe-crash.html

It points to an error with a 3rd party shell extension.

You may want to disable or uninstall any 3rd party shell extensions you may have installed.

Then re-enable one at a time to pinpoint the guilty party.

Just a thought...


JT




--

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 03:21:21 +0000 (UTC), JT wrote:

> Found this discussion that had the same Fault module name: StackHash_9147
> https://www.tenforums.com/general-support/135070-intermittent-bex64-explorer-exe-crash.html
> It points to an error with a 3rd party shell extension.

Hi JT,
Thanks for posting useful related purposefully helpful advice out of the
goodness of your heart, which is why I love Usenet so much myself.

Looking at that link you kindly provided, I noticed the original poster had
the exact same crash messages (in Dutch!) three consecutive times, which I
too would take more seriously than I have been taking my crash logs lately.

> You may want to disable or uninstall any 3rd party shell extensions you may have installed.
> Then re-enable one at a time to pinpoint the guilty party.

In that thread, they implicated a third-party File Explorer add on, which I
don't have, although certainly I have modified my right-click context menus
and "file open" context menus (but I haven't modified my Windows GUI, per
se, although I've extensively used the Microsoft methods to control the GUI
for sure, e.g., TaskBar menus).

Interestingly they recommended AppCrashView, which, when I last used it,
reported that the Microsoft Edge Update was having problems, but I didn't
even know it as those problems didn't cause a BSOD.

Given I have all three MS browsers concurrently installed, I'm not
surprised my system is anathema to Microsoft Update; but I repeat these
errors that AppCrashView reported did not cause a BSOD, so I ignored them.

What's interesting though is that I use almost every (if not every)
third-party debugging tool mentioned in that rather nice find, which I
thank you for.

Another interesting tidbit is the OP of that article implicated AIMP
Shellext Unit, which, thankfully, is one of the programs that nice thread
discussed that I'm _not_ using. :)

Mostly, I think I'm up to speed on debugging BSOD crash logs, where I want
to focus now, when I can, on writing a kickass tutorial so others can do in
minutes what took me about a year (elapsed time) to learn.
--
My goal is for every thread to increase our combined tribal knowledge.

[Arlen Holder]

Happy New Year!

It has been about a year that this BSOD problem started.
o Where I'm simply updating this thread with the latest data

AFAICT, I've tried _everything_ suggested in this thread,
where I not only appreciate the suggestions that helpful people made, but
where I gave back to the group by documenting the 26 steps that anyone
perhaps should consider whenever they encounter a BSOD in the future.

It's hard to remember all the things I did, but certainly
o I re-installed Windows from scratch
o I updated all the drivers possible to update
o I swapped out the keyboard & mouse (multiple times)
o I stress tested the CPU, GPU, and anything I could test
o I cleaned out all the dust from all four fans in the desktop
o I even oiled the Nvidia GE-Force 210 fan to eliminate noise
o I tested the HDD & the RAM many times with special test suites
o I turned off hibernation, sleep, fastboot, & all power options
o I swapped the memory cards, one by one, in groups, in pairs
o I turned on all debugging options in Windows that I could
o And I installed & used all the recommended debug analysis tools
etc.

In the end, I still don't know what caused the BSODs
o Particularly since I've had all four 4GB RAM modules in for a while

For example, I put the following in the four slots on 12/26/2020:
o Memory card 1 is in motherboard memory slot 4
o Memory card 2 is in motherboard memory slot 1
o Memory card 3 is in motherboard memory slot 2
o Memory card 4 is in motherboard memory slot 3

And I haven't had a BSOD even as the machine runs pretty much 24/7
o Even as it's rebooted from time to time otherwise

And, it has been updated to the latest Windows update version
o Win+R > winver ===> Version 20H2 (OS Build 19042.685)

As far as I can logically tell, it's either the software or
the hardware, where the most obvious software would be the
graphic driver and the most obvious hardware would be some
combination of memory card in any given memory card slot...

But, as long as it's working just fine with a full memory complement, I'm
not gonna touch anything, as it's stable just the way it is.

I'm sorry I never did figure out, for sure, what the problem is,
but certainly the BSODs went from a few times a week to once or so a month,
to, well, let's hope to only once or so a year (or whatever is normal).

Thanks everyone for your purposefully helpful advice.
o I hope this thread helps others who have persistent BSOD problems.
--
Happy New Year!