Sherry Fiester: Ignoring The Best Evidence

[David Von Pein]

I was listening to this 2008 radio interview with Debra Conway's
sister, Sherry Fiester, and I was just amazed at how totally inept and
ridiculous Fiester's "trajectory analysis" is.

Fiester is basically telling people this:

I'll just invent an entry hole and an exit hole in JFK's head and then
draw a trajectory line between the two points and then I'll pretend
that I've proved that President Kennedy was shot in the head from the
front. All the while I will make sure I'll totally ignore all of the
best evidence that exists that proves JFK was shot in the head only
from behind....i.e., I'll ignore the autopsy report, I'll ignore the
autopsy doctors' testimony, and I'll ignore the autopsy photos and X-
rays.

This woman's presentation is absolutely pathetic:

http://www.nightfrightshow.com/Night_Fright_Archives_MP3s/2008-11-05%20JFK%20Sherry%20Fiester%20JFK%20Bullet%20TrajectoriesMASTERD.mp3

[claviger]

David,

Most CTs would make good fiction writers, like Oliver Stone. Fiction
is grease for friction caused by so many facts that rub against the
CT. Instead of LN would it not be more accurate to call it the LC
theory or the LM theory, or even better the LTAS theory? Or more on a
gut level, the IHA theory or the AHA theory?

Calling it the LN theory may be selling LHO short. He practiced with
his mail order military surplus rifle, learned how to break it down to
sneak it into the building, arranged his cleverly concealed sniper's
nest, and predetermined his position to be partially concealed while
firing at the motorcade. Not only concealed but behind a brick wall in
case of return fire. LHO made the decision open fire as it proceeded
down range providing a temporarily centered target for a few seconds
and figured out that would be his best opportunity. He could tell by
the stripes the traffic lanes would line up on his window for a short
distance as the Limousine followed the curve toward the Triple
Underpass. All this took place at a distance the military considers
short range. LHO set up boxes for a gun rest and used a strap to
better control his weapon. He made two lethal hits with three
tries.

The major flaw was he had no escape plan. LHO did use a good tactic
of changing back and forth from jacket to shirt as he used different
modes of transportation. He had another advantage, perhaps not
intentional. His employer an old address which LHO had not updated
and he registered at the boarding house with an alias. So this
situation afforded him a time advantage to keep ahead of the police.
Had the media broadcast his name his landlady or housekeeper may pick-
up on the name similarity and call the police based on his strange
behavior, so he had to keep moving.

Professional snipers are trained to have a safe house or "bolt hole"
to go to ground until dark, and they never return to a prior known
location. Failure to do this was LHO's undoing. When he shot the
policeman his rage spilled over as he pumped 3 bullets into the
wounded officer, then executed him with a shot to the head. At this
point LHO squandered his time advantage and raised his visibility
factor.

LC - Lone Communist
LM - Lone Marxist
LTAS - Low Tech Amateur Sniper
IHA - I Hate America
AHA - Always Hated America

[Anthony Marsh]

Read his letter to Marina about the Walker shooting.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 12/7/2010 7:31 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> I was listening to this 2008 radio interview with Debra Conway's
> sister, Sherry Fiester, and I was just amazed at how totally inept and
> ridiculous Fiester's "trajectory analysis" is.
>
> Fiester is basically telling people this:
>
> I'll just invent an entry hole and an exit hole in JFK's head and then
> draw a trajectory line between the two points and then I'll pretend
> that I've proved that President Kennedy was shot in the head from the
> front. All the while I will make sure I'll totally ignore all of the
> best evidence that exists that proves JFK was shot in the head only
> from behind....i.e., I'll ignore the autopsy report, I'll ignore the
> autopsy doctors' testimony, and I'll ignore the autopsy photos and X-
> rays.
>

It's a good idea to ignore known liars when the physical evidence proves
them to be liars.

[Ace Kefford]

On Dec 7, 7:31 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> I was listening to this 2008 radio interview with Debra Conway's
> sister, Sherry Fiester, and I was just amazed at how totally inept and
> ridiculous Fiester's "trajectory analysis" is.
>
> Fiester is basically telling people this:

What's odd, but predictable, is that the same people who would spot
these flaws in a study that was presented as supporting the Lone
Assassin explanation fail to even acknowledge them if the study
supports conspiracy. Just as they will accept the most ludicrous,
late-surfacing testimony of suspect folks while harping on possible
misstatements or misreporting of other witnesses to "prove" they are
"lying".

Weak thinking and obvious bias.

Ace K.

>
> I'll just invent an entry hole and an exit hole in JFK's head and then
> draw a trajectory line between the two points and then I'll pretend
> that I've proved that President Kennedy was shot in the head from the
> front. All the while I will make sure I'll totally ignore all of the
> best evidence that exists that proves JFK was shot in the head only
> from behind....i.e., I'll ignore the autopsy report, I'll ignore the
> autopsy doctors' testimony, and I'll ignore the autopsy photos and X-
> rays.
>
> This woman's presentation is absolutely pathetic:
>

> http://www.nightfrightshow.com/Night_Fright_Archives_MP3s/2008-11-05%...

[colinstep...@yahoo.co.uk]

This woman worked for the police and give evidence in court , what is your
claim to fame ?

[Anthony Marsh]

He has a HUGE web site. Let's see YOURS.

[David Von Pein]

I have a degree in "Common Sense When Evaluating The Actual Evidence In A
Murder Case". That's all.

[Anthony Marsh]

You have a Diploma in CIA propaganda.
Building C.

[rekc...@gmail.com]

wow, that's like totally persuasive. out of curiosity, did you print your
degree yourself?

[David Von Pein]

A link that works (at least for now):

https://ia801302.us.archive.org/0/items/NFFiester2008/NFFiester2008.mp3

[Piotr Mancini]

Sherry did the best she could, with the tools she had at her disposal. In
a nutshell: Many of the PhDs needed are afraid or otherwise unavailable
(not all, though!). While being sub-optimal, she was more interested in
the truth than the folks into file hiding. Like me, she would have been
perfect as assistant of some Big Leaguer scientist.

[Incidentally, DVP: For a long time. I have been chasing you all over
forumland, you have opinions about everything such as here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22351-john-lattimer-i-wish-to-reemphasize-that-none-of-our-test-objects-in-these-experiments-ever-jumped-or-fell-off-the-stand-away-from-the-shooter/

and yet, you refuse to answer a very simple yes/no question:

If there is a public, highly publicized petition to have MIT, Berkeley,
Stanford, Oxford et al. working on solving the JFK Numbers, using the
latest advances, leading edge science and state of the art technology:
would you co-sign it? Perhaps advertise it in your popular website? Feel
free to use your own wording, a personalized petition from you and your
followers. What can you possibly lose? Your credibility and reputation
-the most valuable possession of a person or entity- would be enhanced]

But -as usual- I digress...

I was about to publish a very critical review of Fiester's work, had
plenty of notes and YouTube spotmarks from 2-3 programs, but then I
learned that she is the sister of somebody who has been very loyal, early
supporter of my work: The irreplaceable Debra Conway.

http://jfklancer.com/

That gave me pause and an ethical conflict. One day I was on the phone
with doctor Randolph Robertson, and I mentioned her work. He informed me
that Ms. Gutierrez had passed away. :-(

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

[Anthony Marsh]

On 8/18/2018 10:27 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
> A link that works (at least for now):
>
> https://ia801302.us.archive.org/0/items/NFFiester2008/NFFiester2008.mp3
>

Why can't you get a certificate? Why are your links always bogus?
What's up with the cross threading?

[Piotr Mancini]

On Thursday, December 9, 2010 at 3:23:17 PM UTC-6, Ace Kefford wrote:
> What's odd, but predictable, is that the same people who would spot
> these flaws in a study that was presented as supporting the Lone
> Assassin explanation fail to even acknowledge them if the study
> supports conspiracy. Just as they will accept the most ludicrous,
> late-surfacing testimony of suspect folks while harping on possible
> misstatements or misreporting of other witnesses to "prove" they are
> "lying".
>
> Weak thinking and obvious bias.
>
> Ace K.

Well said, Ace...

I have 2 words for the Fiester critics: "Jet Effect".

At least Sherry had the fortitude to go higher, like the Obamas.

"When they go low, you go high".
https://goo.gl/hj6Bcg

Meanwhile, my fellow Latino Luis Walter Alvarez could not possibly have
gone any lower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Walter_Alvarez

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

[David Von Pein]

On Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:33:03 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 8/18/2018 10:27 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
> > A link that works (at least for now):
> >
> > https://ia801302.us.archive.org/0/items/NFFiester2008/NFFiester2008.mp3
> >
>
>
> Why can't you get a certificate? Why are your links always bogus?

Works perfectly. (As always.)

[David Von Pein]

> What's up with the cross threading?

No idea what you're talking about.

[deke]

On Tuesday, December 7, 2010 at 1:35:19 PM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
> David,
>
> Most CTs would make good fiction writers, like Oliver Stone. Fiction
> is grease for friction caused by so many facts that rub against the
> CT. Instead of LN would it not be more accurate to call it the LC
> theory or the LM theory, or even better the LTAS theory? Or more on a
> gut level, the IHA theory or the AHA theory?
>

> LC - Lone Communist
> LM - Lone Marxist
> LTAS - Low Tech Amateur Sniper
> IHA - I Hate America
> AHA - Always Hated America

A lone Communist/Marxist who always hated America suddenly decides to join
the US Marine Corps at the height of the cold war. That's like a civil
rights activist joining the Ku Klux Klan.

[Anthony Marsh]

Nope.

>
>
>> What's up with the cross threading?
>
>

You don't even know what that means. XSS

[Anthony Marsh]

On 8/19/2018 2:34 PM, David Von Pein wrote:

>> What's up with the cross threading?
>
> No idea what you're talking about.
>

THAT's my point.
XSS

[davide...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, December 7, 2010 at 12:35:19 PM UTC-6, claviger wrote:

> The major flaw was he had no escape plan.

Exactly! I have said that many times. And it's also why I've always
maintained that Oswald had a very fatalistic outlook on how this was going
to play out. I don't think anybody was more surprised than Oswald that he
was able to walk out of the building. In fact, he was actually "caught"
within 90 seconds. It was a stroke of tremendous luck that Officer Baker
let him go. Think of how history would have played out had Baker detained
Oswald.

> LHO did use a good tactic
> of changing back and forth from jacket to shirt as he used different
> modes of transportation.

But that's just common sense. CTs would say that it shows signs of special
intelligence training.

> Professional snipers are trained to have a safe house or "bolt hole"
> to go to ground until dark, and they never return to a prior known
> location. Failure to do this was LHO's undoing.

This is a further sign that he was just shooting from the hip and making
things up as he went along. I don't think he had envisioned an escape
scenario. If he had, he could've prepared (weeks in advance) a spot to
hide his rifle that would've taken the authorities a VERY long time to
find. Imagine if he had pulled a few boards out of the wooden floor to
stash his rifle and replaced the planks - then put some boxes on top of
planks. When do you think the authorities would've ever found that rifle?
Hell, if he would've stayed around instead of bolting, mingled with the
crowds, maybe he could've had an opportunity to retrieve the rifle later.
Fat chance. But it would've been a chance. It would have been his only
chance. It would be difficult to pin it on Oswald without a murder weapon.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Piotr Mancini]

On Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 3:33:18 PM UTC-5, JFK Numbers wrote:
> Sherry did the best she could, with the tools she had at her disposal. In
> a nutshell: Many of the PhDs needed are afraid or otherwise unavailable
> (not all, though!).

I have been compiling a list of world class scientists and their research
which could make paradigm-altering discoveries in the murder case. This is
one of them:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/4b42RCsHo_Q

That list has taken me years, sweat, blood and tears, not to mention the
paltry dollars that I can afford. I have published some of its contents
while the rest remains in the *To Be Contacted/Published* category.

One day I said to myself:

"Self: what you have in your possession is very valuable! What would
happen if after all that effort the plane taking you to Venezuela falls
into the sea?"

I replied:

"Self, you are correct, I should give all my files to somebody, a trusted
person for safekeeping. A perfect recipient would be Benjamin Wecht [with
whom I had a call, confidential, telling him about the Demetri Terzopoulos
finding, asking his Notable Father to contact Oliver Stone who is a peer
of Terzopoulos, a veritable star in the Computer and Hollywood
firmaments]"

Now I am torn: Through my public pledge of allegiance I have given a
formal promise to The People that *any* material that I have is not really
mine and will be placed immediately in a public Internet server (like the
upcoming laser measurements of Dealey Plaza and the DICOM files from the
autopsy X-rays).

Question for the distributed intelligence:

Should I publish immediately all the material?

How big is the risk of that stuff falling in the wrong eyes and have the
evil people derailing, sabotaging my carefully laid plans? [This has
happened to me several times, and I am ashamed/sad to say that the
saboteurs invariably have been people high in the list of Leaders of the
CT Cause, well known JFK "personalities"]

That is the kind of sheet that we should be debating here, instead of
rehashing the same crap again, and again, and again.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

[Mark]

No, not really. How much do you know about LHO's life from his earliest
childhood memories to the year he joined the Marines? I'm guessing not
much. If you did you wouldn't find his enlistment unusual.

Mark

[David Von Pein]

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 10:16:49 AM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 8/19/2018 2:34 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:33:03 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> >> On 8/18/2018 10:27 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
> >>> A link that works (at least for now):
> >>>
> >>> https://ia801302.us.archive.org/0/items/NFFiester2008/NFFiester2008.mp3
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Why can't you get a certificate? Why are your links always bogus?
> >
> > Works perfectly. (As always.)
> >
> >
>
> Nope.
>

Yep.

[claviger]

Well said. Excellent points, solid logic.

[claviger]

JFK Lancer Productions & Publications
JFK Homicide
Forensic Reconstruction
New From
Sherry Gutierrez Fiester
http://www.jfklancer.com/catalog/gutierrez/index.html

"In 1993 Sherry Gutierrez, a Certified Senior Crime Scene Investigator
and Court recognized expert begin to apply her professional expertise
to the Kennedy Assassination."

Certified by who? What was her education or training? Does anyone know?

[claviger]

Wow! Very pretty lady.

No information about the certification process whether
academic training or OJT.


About the Author

Sherry Fiester is a retired Certified Senior Crime Scene Investigator and
law enforcement instructor with 30 years of experience. She has testified
as a court certified expert in crime scene investigation, crime scene
reconstruction, and bloodstain pattern analysis in Louisiana Federal Court
and over 30 judicial districts in the states of Louisiana, Mississippi,
and Florida. Author of numerous articles in professional publications,
Fiester is recognized as an instructor in her field at state and national
levels.

Fiester has presented forensic findings at the Coalition on Political
Assassinations Conference (COPA) in Washington, DC in 1995, the Dealey
Plaza Echo Annual Kennedy Assassination Conference in the United Kingdom
in 1996, and at JFK Lancer November in Dallas Historical Research
Conferences since 1996. Fiester is a recipient of the prestigious JFK
Lancer-Mary Ferrell New Pioneer Award, presented for advancing a better
understanding of evidence in the Kennedy Assassination through innovative
research.

Now retired from police work, Fiester is a prominent author, lecturer, and
educator. "Enemy of Truth: Myths, Forensics, and the JFK Assassination" is
her first in a series of upcoming publications utilizing various forensic
disciplines to address important subjects of interest to Americans in the
21st century. Her next book, "Demystifying Mind Control" is slated for
release in late 2013.

http://www.sherryfiester.com

[bigdog]

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 3:58:56 PM UTC-4, davide...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 7, 2010 at 12:35:19 PM UTC-6, claviger wrote:
>
> > The major flaw was he had no escape plan.
>
> Exactly! I have said that many times. And it's also why I've always
> maintained that Oswald had a very fatalistic outlook on how this was going
> to play out. I don't think anybody was more surprised than Oswald that he
> was able to walk out of the building. In fact, he was actually "caught"
> within 90 seconds. It was a stroke of tremendous luck that Officer Baker
> let him go. Think of how history would have played out had Baker detained
> Oswald.
>

For one, Tippit would have lived. Baker was probably assuming the shooter
was an intruder, not an employee, and when Truly vouched for Oswald, Baker
saw no reason to detain him.

> > LHO did use a good tactic
> > of changing back and forth from jacket to shirt as he used different
> > modes of transportation.
>
> But that's just common sense. CTs would say that it shows signs of special
> intelligence training.
>
>
> > Professional snipers are trained to have a safe house or "bolt hole"
> > to go to ground until dark, and they never return to a prior known
> > location. Failure to do this was LHO's undoing.
>
> This is a further sign that he was just shooting from the hip and making
> things up as he went along. I don't think he had envisioned an escape
> scenario. If he had, he could've prepared (weeks in advance) a spot to
> hide his rifle that would've taken the authorities a VERY long time to
> find. Imagine if he had pulled a few boards out of the wooden floor to
> stash his rifle and replaced the planks - then put some boxes on top of
> planks. When do you think the authorities would've ever found that rifle?
> Hell, if he would've stayed around instead of bolting, mingled with the
> crowds, maybe he could've had an opportunity to retrieve the rifle later.
> Fat chance. But it would've been a chance. It would have been his only
> chance. It would be difficult to pin it on Oswald without a murder weapon.
>

Oswald didn't even expect to get away with the Walker shooting, hence his
note to Marina. It stands to reason he wouldn't have expected to get away
with the JFK assassination either. He seemed willing to trade his life for
that of his intended targets. A martyr for the cause, whatever cause that
was in his twisted mind. Having killed JFK, his mission was accomplished.
After that he seemed bent on taking down as many cops as he could,
possibly wanting to commit suicide by cop.

All this is speculation of course. I've said many times we can't possibly
know with any certainty what was going on inside his head. It's fun to
speculate though.

[bigdog]

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 9:26:26 PM UTC-4, Piotr Mancini wrote:
> On Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 3:33:18 PM UTC-5, JFK Numbers wrote:
> > Sherry did the best she could, with the tools she had at her disposal. In
> > a nutshell: Many of the PhDs needed are afraid or otherwise unavailable
> > (not all, though!).
>
> I have been compiling a list of world class scientists and their research
> which could make paradigm-altering discoveries in the murder case. This is
> one of them:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/4b42RCsHo_Q
>

If these are really world class scientists, I'm sure they have better
things to do with their time than reinvestigating a murder that was solved
54 years ago.

> That list has taken me years, sweat, blood and tears, not to mention the
> paltry dollars that I can afford. I have published some of its contents
> while the rest remains in the *To Be Contacted/Published* category.
>
> One day I said to myself:
>
> "Self: what you have in your possession is very valuable! What would
> happen if after all that effort the plane taking you to Venezuela falls
> into the sea?"
>
> I replied:
>
> "Self, you are correct, I should give all my files to somebody, a trusted
> person for safekeeping. A perfect recipient would be Benjamin Wecht [with
> whom I had a call, confidential, telling him about the Demetri Terzopoulos
> finding, asking his Notable Father to contact Oliver Stone who is a peer
> of Terzopoulos, a veritable star in the Computer and Hollywood
> firmaments]"
>
> Now I am torn: Through my public pledge of allegiance I have given a
> formal promise to The People that *any* material that I have is not really
> mine and will be placed immediately in a public Internet server (like the
> upcoming laser measurements of Dealey Plaza and the DICOM files from the
> autopsy X-rays).
>

It is yours and you are free to do with it as you like.

> Question for the distributed intelligence:
>
> Should I publish immediately all the material?
>
> How big is the risk of that stuff falling in the wrong eyes and have the
> evil people derailing, sabotaging my carefully laid plans? [This has
> happened to me several times, and I am ashamed/sad to say that the
> saboteurs invariably have been people high in the list of Leaders of the
> CT Cause, well known JFK "personalities"]
>
> That is the kind of sheet that we should be debating here, instead of
> rehashing the same crap again, and again, and again.
>

Maybe you should give a call to Bob Woodward and become the Deep Throat of
the JFK assassination.

[deke]

Oswald's early life in fairly well documented, although there are a number
of discrepancies that seem to indicate someone else sharing his identity.
Anyway, it has been alleged that he started reading Communist literature
years before he enlisted in the marines as a 17 year old dropout. High
school dropouts almost always ended up in the infantry, but Oswald was
sent to several technical training schools to be trained as a radar
operator. Positions like that have always required a high school diploma
and sometimes at least some college credit.It sure seems that he was being
handled from an early age to be groomed for some type of intelligence
work.

[Ace Kefford]

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 9:48:45 PM UTC-4, Mark wrote:

Very good and accurate point, Mark. Enlistment made total and certainly
doesn't seem odd if one looks at what we know about the young LHO.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 8/20/2018 9:48 PM, Mark wrote:
> On Sunday, August 19, 2018 at 7:58:48 PM UTC-5, deke wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 7, 2010 at 1:35:19 PM UTC-5, claviger wrote:
>>> David,
>>>
>>> Most CTs would make good fiction writers, like Oliver Stone. Fiction
>>> is grease for friction caused by so many facts that rub against the
>>> CT. Instead of LN would it not be more accurate to call it the LC
>>> theory or the LM theory, or even better the LTAS theory? Or more on a
>>> gut level, the IHA theory or the AHA theory?
>>>

You WC defenders must be afraid of evidence. That's why you keep
destroying it and covering it up. Never let the pubic SEE the truth.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 3:58:56 PM UTC-4, davide...@gmail.com wrote:

And the spur-of-the-moment action indicates, to me, that he had no help,
that he was on his own. If he did, where was it? I suppose one could say
they abandoned him; and that's why he was scrambling to escape. His help
disappeared. So he had to make things up.

About 10 days before the assassination he goes to the FBI headquarters to
confront Hosty. Hosty was unavailable so he leaves a rather provocative
note.

Is this what someone planning on killing JFK does? This draws attention to
yourself.

Two months before the murder he visits the Soviet and Cuban consulates in
order to defect. This too drew attention to him.

He had defected to the USSR, tried to defect to Cuba....this is a man
being watched by the government. It's not someone you want to use to kill
JFK. Too many risks.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

It seems obvious that the Marines were his only way out of the life he was
stuck in. He was a high school dropout living with his miserable mother.
No money or resources, no discernible job skills, no place to go...not
much of a future there.

His two older brothers escaped by joining the Marines. He admired Robert
and saw, it seems to me, that that course was his best option.

And of course he lied to get out of the Marines. He was done using them
and was moving on. He used them to get from his mother, he used the USSR
to get away from the US, he tried to use Cuba as another means of escape.
He was always trying to find another place.....

But by November 22, 1963 he was out of places to go to.

Or we can say all of this was part of his intelligence work for the
military or CIA.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 8/22/2018 10:32 AM, bigdog wrote:
> On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 9:26:26 PM UTC-4, Piotr Mancini wrote:
>> On Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 3:33:18 PM UTC-5, JFK Numbers wrote:
>>> Sherry did the best she could, with the tools she had at her disposal. In
>>> a nutshell: Many of the PhDs needed are afraid or otherwise unavailable
>>> (not all, though!).
>>
>> I have been compiling a list of world class scientists and their research
>> which could make paradigm-altering discoveries in the murder case. This is
>> one of them:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/4b42RCsHo_Q
>>
>
> If these are really world class scientists, I'm sure they have better
> things to do with their time than reinvestigating a murder that was solved
> 54 years ago.
>

Exactly. World Class Scientists do not care about their country or the
Truth. They all want to be part of the cover-up. That's where the big
bucks from the CIA come from.

[Anthony Marsh]

Huh? Can you document that? We're talking about the Marines. How can some
kid joining the Marines at 17 already have a College Degree? He's be more
likely to join G-2 instead of the Marines. What was the name of the
Civilian agency before G-2? Are you old enough to remember?

> and sometimes at least some college credit.It sure seems that he was being
> handled from an early age to be groomed for some type of intelligence
> work.
>

No grooming necesary. Just dangle him as bait and see who bites.

>

[Anthony Marsh]

I don't see how shooting from the hip could be accurate, and might not
even be able to clear over the boxes stacked up in front of the window.
I think YOU'RE just shooting from the hip.]

[Anthony Marsh]

On 8/22/2018 10:31 AM, bigdog wrote:
> On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 3:58:56 PM UTC-4, davide...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 7, 2010 at 12:35:19 PM UTC-6, claviger wrote:
>>
>>> The major flaw was he had no escape plan.
>>
>> Exactly! I have said that many times. And it's also why I've always
>> maintained that Oswald had a very fatalistic outlook on how this was going
>> to play out. I don't think anybody was more surprised than Oswald that he
>> was able to walk out of the building. In fact, he was actually "caught"
>> within 90 seconds. It was a stroke of tremendous luck that Officer Baker
>> let him go. Think of how history would have played out had Baker detained
>> Oswald.
>>
>
> For one, Tippit would have lived. Baker was probably assuming the shooter
> was an intruder, not an employee, and when Truly vouched for Oswald, Baker
> saw no reason to detain him.
>

Correct. Baker was looking for a sniper on the roof or the highest
window. Thus it could have been a stranger, not an employee.

>>> LHO did use a good tactic
>>> of changing back and forth from jacket to shirt as he used different
>>> modes of transportation.
>>
>> But that's just common sense. CTs would say that it shows signs of special
>> intelligence training.
>>
>>
>>> Professional snipers are trained to have a safe house or "bolt hole"
>>> to go to ground until dark, and they never return to a prior known
>>> location. Failure to do this was LHO's undoing.
>>
>> This is a further sign that he was just shooting from the hip and making
>> things up as he went along. I don't think he had envisioned an escape
>> scenario. If he had, he could've prepared (weeks in advance) a spot to
>> hide his rifle that would've taken the authorities a VERY long time to
>> find. Imagine if he had pulled a few boards out of the wooden floor to
>> stash his rifle and replaced the planks - then put some boxes on top of
>> planks. When do you think the authorities would've ever found that rifle?
>> Hell, if he would've stayed around instead of bolting, mingled with the
>> crowds, maybe he could've had an opportunity to retrieve the rifle later.
>> Fat chance. But it would've been a chance. It would have been his only
>> chance. It would be difficult to pin it on Oswald without a murder weapon.
>>
>
> Oswald didn't even expect to get away with the Walker shooting, hence his
> note to Marina. It stands to reason he wouldn't have expected to get away

It was possible, given that he did it at night, but he expected to be
caught.

> with the JFK assassination either. He seemed willing to trade his life for
> that of his intended targets. A martyr for the cause, whatever cause that
> was in his twisted mind. Having killed JFK, his mission was accomplished.

Hunter of Fascists.
Defender of Castro.

> After that he seemed bent on taking down as many cops as he could,
> possibly wanting to commit suicide by cop.
>

Oswald didn't seek out any cops. A cop stopped him.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 8/21/2018 10:28 PM, claviger wrote:
>

Make sure you never read the other messages here. You might accidentally
learn something.

[Anthony Marsh]

I don't blame him for that. I blame him for defecting.
That's called Treason. Offering secrets to the enemy.
They were still our enemy back then, weren't they?

> His two older brothers escaped by joining the Marines. He admired Robert
> and saw, it seems to me, that that course was his best option.
>
> And of course he lied to get out of the Marines. He was done using them

Not exactly.
Maybe his mother really did need his support.

> and was moving on. He used them to get from his mother, he used the USSR
> to get away from the US, he tried to use Cuba as another means of escape.
> He was always trying to find another place.....
>
> But by November 22, 1963 he was out of places to go to.
>

What's the matter with New Orleans? He really didn't want to work hard.

> Or we can say all of this was part of his intelligence work for the
> military or CIA.
>

No, but he could be used as bait.


>
>
>
>
>

[deke]

Yes.

[Anthony Marsh]

No, silly.

[claviger]

Sherry Fiester and Enemy of the Truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu6jtUgrd3E


Sherry Fiester Explains Trajectory Cone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXsIsv0bZRw

[deke]

Yes. Confused young men like Oswald are prime targets for recruitment by
intelligence agencies to do their low level dirty work. The same type of
people are also recruited by various cults.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

You believe they recruited him when he was, what, 16? 17?

So they recruited him and then (for some reason) assigned him to the top
secret U-2 program at Atsugi. And they - or was it Naval Intelligence? -
had him meet with Japanese communists.

Then he was sheep dipped and used for their fake defector program and sent
to the USSR. Then he was brought back (lucky for them the KGB let him
return).

Then he was used by the CIA to infiltrate the FPCC and pro-Castro groups.
Garrison said Oswald was seen with anti-Castro groups at a camp.

So he was working for the CIA as both a pro-Castro person (his "legend")
and a anti-Castro group.

Then he was sent to MC to defect to Cuba. For some reason (to connect him
to Castro and then frame him two months later for shooting JFK?)

And for most of this time, in the US, he was living on unemployment
checks. No car, no house, no phone - almost nothing.

You actually believe Lee Oswald did all of this on behalf of the CIA?

Then, to put a bow on it, the CIA framed him - this same man with a record
of doing all of the above - for killing JFK. They didn't frame a nobody,
someone with no paper trail to them. They framed a person you believe had
a rather extensive record - U2, fake defector, pro-Castro - of working for
them.

You believe all or most of this?

[Mark]

Well said Steve. Deke, I kinda owed you an answer but was away from the
computer for several days. Steve answered better than I could. What he
said.

Mark

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Your evidence for this - intelligence agencies - is what exactly?

Where is this evidence that "confused young men are prime targets for
recruitment"? I have never read such a thing.

I have read that intelligence agencies try to recruit confused men (and
women) in other countries to spy on the countries. But I've never read
where they recruit them to be agents for their agency. Why recruit
"confused" men?

Give us a couple of examples of this please.

[Anthony Marsh]

No.

>
>

[Anthony Marsh]

No.

> So they recruited him and then (for some reason) assigned him to the top
> secret U-2 program at Atsugi. And they - or was it Naval Intelligence? -
> had him meet with Japanese communists.
>

Silly, he was a radar operator.

> Then he was sheep dipped and used for their fake defector program and sent
> to the USSR. Then he was brought back (lucky for them the KGB let him
> return).
>

That is one way to do it. More likely just used as a dangle.

> Then he was used by the CIA to infiltrate the FPCC and pro-Castro groups.
> Garrison said Oswald was seen with anti-Castro groups at a camp.
>

No, that's a cute theory, but the CIA program was to set up FAKE FPCC's.

> So he was working for the CIA as both a pro-Castro person (his "legend")
> and a anti-Castro group.
>

No, you are confused. He was a Marxist and supporter of Castro.

> Then he was sent to MC to defect to Cuba. For some reason (to connect him
> to Castro and then frame him two months later for shooting JFK?)
>

He did not indicate that he wanted to detefect to Cuba.

> And for most of this time, in the US, he was living on unemployment
> checks. No car, no house, no phone - almost nothing.
>

Ever been in the real world? A lot of people live like that.

> You actually believe Lee Oswald did all of this on behalf of the CIA?
>

Why do you lump it all together and say all?

> Then, to put a bow on it, the CIA framed him - this same man with a record
> of doing all of the above - for killing JFK. They didn't frame a nobody,

Sometimes the CIA will groom someone and then use him as a patsy.

> someone with no paper trail to them. They framed a person you believe had

Maybe there was a paper trail and they destroyed it.

> a rather extensive record - U2, fake defector, pro-Castro - of working for
> them.
>
> You believe all or most of this?
>

You know nothing about the CIA. The head of the Communist Party in the
US was working for the CIA.

[Ace Kefford]

Makes perfect sense -- in the Kingdom of the Buffs.

[claviger]

On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 9:52:38 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 8/27/2018 11:52 PM, Steve M. Galbraith wrote:
>
> > Then he was sent to MC to defect to Cuba. For some reason (to connect him
> > to Castro and then frame him two months later for shooting JFK?)
> He did not indicate that he wanted to detefect to Cuba.

He indicated that to Marina and asked for her help to hijack a
commercial airliner to Cuba. Castro was annoyed by all those
nuts and thew them in prison. He thought most of them were
CIA plants. After they got out of prison he put them to work
chopping sugarcane, which is extremely hard work. Too bad
LHO didn't make it to Cuba. He needed a lesson in socialist
economics, Cuban style.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

I'm sure you've read Bill Simpich's work? Or Peter Dale Scott?

My little scenario above is like a children's bedtime story compared to
their theories.

Just read Simpich's account on Oswald in Mexico City alone. He works in
Angleton and double agents and moles into his explanation. Other than
Lifton's theory, it is the most bizarre narrative on this event I've read.
It's actually quite fun - if you can follow it; but it's just...well, not
believable.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Yes, Marina said the plan, such as it was, was for him to go to Cuba, she
and her child go to the USSR, and then he would somehow get them into
Cuba. But she said that when he said goodbye to her as she left for Texas
and he for MC that she was sure it would be the last time she ever saw
him.

He didn't have a visa for the USSR. So, if the Cubans let him in then
where was he going to go? It was against US law at that time to go to Cuba
without permission from the government except in certain circumstances. So
he would have been violating the law - although the enforcement was
apparently pretty spotty.

He was defecting.

Imagine how history would have changed had they let him in? Hell, given
his erratic nature maybe he would have ended up shooting Castro.

[claviger]

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:13:57 PM UTC-5, Steve M. Galbraith wrote:
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 11:09:02 AM UTC-4, claviger wrote:

> Yes, Marina said the plan, such as it was, was for him to go to Cuba, she
> and her child go to the USSR, and then he would somehow get them into
> Cuba.

That was Plan B after she refused Plan A to help him hijack an airplane
with her babies onboard.

LHO was a nut case. He was a dysfunctional adult with a teenage
mentality.

[Anthony Marsh]

No, he had a higher than average IQ. You're thinking about Trump, who
can't even read a teleprompter. The CIA intentionally uses big words in
his daily briefings just to confuse him.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

It's also why I think the claims that Oswald "liked" JFK are not accurate.
Why would he like JFK? He admired Castro - wanted to go there - yet he
also admired the guy who was, in effect, waging war against the Havana
government?

And for a guy who "liked" or "admired" JFK he sure didn't seem to be
interested in what happened to him that November day. Oswald leaves the
building within 3 minutes of the shooting, never inquires about what
happened to Kennedy, isn't interested in discussing what happened to
Kennedy, and isn't interested in seeing on TV the news as to what happened
to Kennedy.

A guy who "admires" the President isn't going to have no interest
whatsoever in what may have happened to him right outside the building
where he worked.

[claviger]

On Sunday, September 2, 2018 at 1:20:16 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 8/31/2018 9:21 PM, claviger wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:13:57 PM UTC-5, Steve M. Galbraith wrote:
> >> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 11:09:02 AM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
> >> Yes, Marina said the plan, such as it was, was for him to go to Cuba, she
> >> and her child go to the USSR, and then he would somehow get them into
> >> Cuba.
> > That was Plan B after she refused Plan A to help him hijack an airplane
> > with her babies onboard.
> > LHO was a nut case. He was a dysfunctional adult with a teenage
> > mentality.
> No, he had a higher than average IQ.

Some high IQ people do have dysfunctional behavior. A majority of ADHD
individuals have higher than normal IQ. A chemical imbalance in the brain
causes aberrant behavior.

> You're thinking about Trump, who can't even read a teleprompter.

He doesn't need a teleprompter because he can think on his feet,
unlike his predecessor who needed a teleprompter at all times,
and struggled with answering questions sometimes speaking
gibberish without one handy.

> The CIA intentionally uses big words in his daily briefings just to
> confuse him.

More insider info from Tony the Spooky Dookie?
Do you have the room bugged?

[Anthony Marsh]

Oswald did. He talked to a secretary about it.
YOU have nothing. YOU are nothing.

[19e...@mail.com]

Oswald allegedly mumbled something unintelligible to Mrs. Reid. You know
nothing about Mrs. Reid.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 10:02:47 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:

Mrs. Reid, the secretary, described the encounter with Oswald:

Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was coming in
the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my desk
several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but
maybe they didn't hit him." He mumbled something to me, I kept walking, he
did, too. I didn't pay any attention to what he said because I had no
thoughts of anything of him having any connection with it at all because
he was very calm.

Now, make something up in response. Go ahead, don't disappoint us.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 9/3/2018 8:07 PM, claviger wrote:
> On Sunday, September 2, 2018 at 1:20:16 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 8/31/2018 9:21 PM, claviger wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:13:57 PM UTC-5, Steve M. Galbraith wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 11:09:02 AM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
>>>> Yes, Marina said the plan, such as it was, was for him to go to Cuba, she
>>>> and her child go to the USSR, and then he would somehow get them into
>>>> Cuba.
>>> That was Plan B after she refused Plan A to help him hijack an airplane
>>> with her babies onboard.
>>> LHO was a nut case. He was a dysfunctional adult with a teenage
>>> mentality.
>> No, he had a higher than average IQ.
>
> Some high IQ people do have dysfunctional behavior. A majority of ADHD
> individuals have higher than normal IQ. A chemical imbalance in the brain
> causes aberrant behavior.
>
>> You're thinking about Trump, who can't even read a teleprompter.
>
> He doesn't need a teleprompter because he can think on his feet,

Nice try, but wrong. When he speaks off the cuff he forgets which lie he
is supposed to tell that day and contradicts himself. He almost always
uses a teleprompter and can't even read the words correctly.
He is functionally illiterate. Even worse than Bush was.

> unlike his predecessor who needed a teleprompter at all times,

False. And he could read and understand his daily briefings. At least he
knew what a country was.

> and struggled with answering questions sometimes speaking
> gibberish without one handy.
>

Nope.

>> The CIA intentionally uses big words in his daily briefings just to
>> confuse him.
>
> More insider info from Tony the Spooky Dookie?
> Do you have the room bugged?
>

Whose room? How could Omorasa have taped all those people in the
situation room? Do you understand that there's a LOT more?
Do you know what a SCIF is?

>

[claviger]

It demonstrates he had ice water in his veins like a stone cold killer
trained in the USSR for two years.

[Anthony Marsh]

I've quoted her statements a lot more times than you have and I believe
her.

[Anthony Marsh]

They talked about the assasination. She didn't understand what he was
saying.

>

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Let's get this clear: she said she didn't know what he said but you know
he talked about the assassination? You know better than her what he said?

In any case, no that's not talking about the assassination.

[claviger]

On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 7:33:23 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 9/4/2018 9:07 PM, 19e...@mail.com wrote:
>
> >>> A guy who "admires" the President isn't going to have no interest
> >>> whatsoever in what may have happened to him right outside the building
> >>> where he worked.
> >> Oswald did. He talked to a secretary about it.

Talked? She said he mumbled something she could not understand.

> >> YOU have nothing. YOU are nothing.
> > Oswald allegedly mumbled something unintelligible to Mrs. Reid. You know
> > nothing about Mrs. Reid.
> I've quoted her statements a lot more times than you have and I believe
> her.

You just misquoted Mrs. Reid.

[bigdog]

And Marine marksmanship training. A dangerous combination.

[bigdog]

On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:08:17 PM UTC-4, Steve M. Galbraith wrote:
> On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 9:21:38 PM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:13:57 PM UTC-5, Steve M. Galbraith wrote:
> > > On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 11:09:02 AM UTC-4, claviger wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, Marina said the plan, such as it was, was for him to go to Cuba, she
> > > and her child go to the USSR, and then he would somehow get them into
> > > Cuba.
> >
> > That was Plan B after she refused Plan A to help him hijack an airplane
> > with her babies onboard.
> >
> > LHO was a nut case. He was a dysfunctional adult with a teenage
> > mentality.
>
> It's also why I think the claims that Oswald "liked" JFK are not accurate.
> Why would he like JFK? He admired Castro - wanted to go there - yet he
> also admired the guy who was, in effect, waging war against the Havana
> government?
>

I believe Marina stated he thought JFK was a good leader which doesn't
indicate he liked him. We can recognize Hitler had leadership qualities
without actually admiring what he used those qualities for. Likewise, the
fact Oswald recognized JFK to be a good leader don't indicated he liked or
admired him.

> And for a guy who "liked" or "admired" JFK he sure didn't seem to be
> interested in what happened to him that November day. Oswald leaves the
> building within 3 minutes of the shooting, never inquires about what
> happened to Kennedy, isn't interested in discussing what happened to
> Kennedy, and isn't interested in seeing on TV the news as to what happened
> to Kennedy.
>
> A guy who "admires" the President isn't going to have no interest
> whatsoever in what may have happened to him right outside the building
> where he worked.

Stop making so much sense. It confuses our CT friends.

[Anthony Marsh]

There was no evidence of training.

[Anthony Marsh]

Whether SHE had a problem or HE had a problem, he was made aware of it
by her and they talked about it.

>>
>
>

[claviger]

LHO had a weird lack of interest about what happened outside when the
Motorcade passed by. Even more strange why he hurried home and took
his pistol for a walk?

[Anthony Marsh]

TESTIMONY OF MRS. ROBERT A. REID beginning at 3H270...

Mr. DULLES. Mrs. Reid, the Chief Justice had to leave a few moments
and he expressed his regret to you.
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. So I am presiding over the Commission at the present time.
As you possibly have been informed, the purpose of the testimony
this morning has been to hear the testimony of Officer Baker, yourself,
and certain others who were in the vicinity of the Texas School Book
Depository Building at the time of the assassination of the President,
and we will ask you give testimony in that connection and anything else
you may know.
Would you please rise, Mrs. Reid, and hold up your right hand.
Do you swear the testimony you will give before this Commission is
the truth, the whole truth, so help you God, and nothing but the truth?
Mrs. REID. I do.
Mr. DULLES. Mr. Belin will carry forward the interrogation.
Mr. BELIN. We met in Dallas on Friday, March 20.
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Mrs. Reid, could you state your name for the Commission,
please?
Mrs. REID. Mrs. Robert A. Reid.
Mr. BELIN. That is R-e-i-d?
Mrs. REID. R-e-i-d, that is right.
Mr. BELIN. Where do you live, Mrs. Reid?
Mrs. REID. 1914 Elmwood Boulevard, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. And are you originally from Dallas?
Mrs. REID. Well, I have been for quite a number of years. I was
born out in a little town out from Dallas, Cereal, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you go to school in Dallas? Did you go
through high school?
Mrs. REID. I completed high school there and I married and went to
Waxahachie and lived there about 15 years and moved back to Dallas then.
Mr. BELIN. Do you have any family, Mrs. Reid?
Mrs. REID. You mean like sisters or my children?
Mr. BELIN. Well, children.
Mrs. REID. Both, I have six sisters and I have two children and a
grandchild.
Mr. BELIN. You have a grandchild?
Mrs. REID. And a husband, and a family.
Mr. BELIN. What is your occupation, Mrs. Reid?
Mrs. REID. I am a clerical supervisor.
Mr. BELIN. For what company?
Mrs. REID. Texas School Book Depository.
Mr. BELIN. How long have you worked for the Texas School Book
Depository?
Mrs. REID. I have been 7 years.
Mr. BELIN. Have you been a clerical supervisor all the time?
Mrs. REID. No; I started out in the department on what they call
their post I was appointed to a clerical supervisor.
Mr. BELIN. Mrs. Reid, I am taking you to November 22, 1963.
Mrs. REID. All right.
270

Page 271

Mr. BELIN. Where were you on that day commencing with, say, around
noon or so?
Mrs. REID. Well, at 12 I went to lunch, and I had my lunch rather
hurriedly so that I might go downstairs and watch the parade.
Mr. BELIN. Mrs. Reid, you say you ate your lunch?
Mrs. REID. Yes; I did.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you eat your lunch?
Mrs. REID. In our lunchroom, in the lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN. Where is that?
Mrs. REID. Well
Mr. BELIN. On what floor?
Mrs. REID. On two, the same floor as our office.
Mr. BELIN. That is on the second floor?
Mrs. REID. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you buy your lunch or bring your lunch?
Mrs. REID. No; I brought my lunch.
Mr. BELIN. Was there anyone in the lunchroom when you were eating
lunch?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember who was there?
Mrs. REID. Well, the girls that work under me, the young ladies,
goodness, it is all hard, for me to remember how many there were, but
the general ones that usually eat there with me every day.
Mr. BELIN. On Commission Exhibit 497, is this room, this lunchroom,
the one that is marked "lunchroom" here with the numbers 25 and 26 in it?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And that is where you ate?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And on Commission Exhibit 497 do you work on the second
floor also?
Mrs. REID. I do.
Mr. BELIN. In the area marked with the room "office space,"
somewhere in that room?
Mrs. REID. Over here.
Mr. BELIN. You say you work over near the dumbwaiter which is marked?
Mrs. REID. My desk--
Mr. BELIN. Your desk is near the dumbwaiter on Exhibit 497.
Mr. DULLES. That is the desk there, is it?
Mr. BELIN. That is the dumbwaiter.
Mr. DULLES. Oh, yes.
Mr. BELIN. Now, Mrs. Reid, you left lunch about what time?
Mrs. REID. Well, I left, I ate my lunch hurriedly, I wasn't
watching the time but I wanted to be sure of getting out on the streets
in time for the parade before he got there, and I called my husband, who
works at the records building, and they had a radio in their office and
they were listening as the parade progressed and he told me they were
running about 10 minutes late.
But I went down rather soon and stood on the steps.
Mr. DULLES. Where was your husband working?
Mrs. REID. He works for the records building.
Mr. BELIN. Where is that located?
Mrs. REID. Well, it is off the left-hand side, kind of
cater-cornered across from our building.
Mr. BELIN. The records building has one side of it on Elm Street
running from Houston to Record Street?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And I believe it is on, it would run on, the south side
of Elm?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Is that correct?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Do you know about what time it was that you
left the lunchroom, was it 12, 12:15?
Mrs. REID. I think around 12:30 somewhere along in there.

271

Page 272

Mr. BELIN. All right. When you left the lunchroom, did you leave
with the other girls?
Mrs. REID. No; I didn't. The younger girls had gone and I left alone.
Mr. BELIN. Were you the last person in the lunchroom?
Mrs. REID. No; I could not say that because I don't remember that
part of it because I was going out of the building by myself, I wasn't
even, you know, connected with anyone at all.
Mr. BELIN. Were there any men in the lunchroom when you left there?
Mrs. REID. I can't, I don't, remember that.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mrs. REID. I can't remember the time they left.
Mr. BELIN. Now, you went out from the lunchroom; turning to Exhibit
497, you went from the lunchroom through the door, which would be the
west door, and then through the doorway marked number 23 on the exhibit
there or did you instead go to the front?
Mrs. REID. No; I came back through the office.
Mr. BELIN. You didn't go through the door marked 24?
Mrs. REID. No; I did not.
Mr. BELIN. You came out through this first door of the lunchroom?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And then you turned which way?
Mrs. REID. Turned this way.
Mr. BELIN. You turned to your, left and went through the door which
is between numbers 27 and 28?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. On Exhibit 497, and you went back to your office. Did
you go by your desk?
Mrs. REID. I am sure I did because I usually leave my purse in
there until I get ready to go out and then pick it up.
Mr. BELIN. All right. You walked toward the number marked 29 on
Exhibit 497?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Then where did you walk?
Mrs. REID. I came over here and got my jacket and scarf out of the
closet.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
You are now pointing to the closet on Exhibit 497 which would be
located on the east side of the building?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Toward the front. Then what did you do?
Mrs. REID. I came and went out this door.
Mr. BELIN. You are, you went out the door which is marked on
Exhibit 497 as room 200, is that correct?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do?
Mrs. REID. I got on the elevator.
Mr. BELIN. Now, there is an elevator along the east wall toward the
front of the building, is that correct?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Is this a freight or passenger?
Mrs. REID. It is a passenger.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know how far this elevator goes or how high?
Mrs. REID. Fourth floor.
Mr. BELIN. Fourth floor. You got on the elevator on the second floor?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mrs. REID. Came down on the first floor.
Mr. BELIN. Then you came on the first floor.
Mrs. REID. Went out the front door of our building.
Mr. BELIN. Went out the front door.
Mrs. REID. I stood on the steps for several minutes.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mrs. REID. Shall I continue?

272

Page 273

Mr. BELIN. Yes.
Mrs. REID. Until I saw the parade coming around the corner from
Main and Houston and when I did I walked out to the street so I would be
nearer to the people, and I walked out and was standing by Mr. Truly and
Mr. Campbell.
Mr. BELIN. All right. This was in front of the steps, ma'am?
Mrs. REID. Well, no; I had gone out directly in the front but I had
gotten nearer to the street than the steps.
Mr. BELIN. You were actually onto the street then as the motorcade
came by?
Mrs. REID. Yes; that is right. There is a part in there where our
streets, one goes this way and one kind of goes off this way, and the
line of parade they were going that way and I got right on the curb and
was standing there.
Mr. BELIN. Well, turning to Exhibit 361, the top of Exhibit 361
faces south and this is Houston Street, here is the School Book
Depository Building that I am pointing to.
Can you give any estimate as to where you were with relation to
this, well, I will call it a peninsula of land between the parkway and
the building.
Mrs. REID. You have got me turned around.
Mr. BELIN. The parade was coming along Houston.
Mrs. REID. I was standing about along in here, in here.
Mr. BELIN. You were standing a little bit to the north of the spot
marked "B" on Exhibit 361.
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And you would be directly in front of the main entrance
of the School Book Depository, is that correct?
Mrs. REID. That is correct
Mr. BELIN. Now, by "B" I am referring to, on Exhibit 361, I am
referring to the pen ink--pen and ink "B" which is directly to the east
of what I will call the traffic light on that peninsula of land as Elm
goes into the parkway there. All right, what did you see?
Mrs. REID. You mean when I was standing there?
Mr. BELIN. What did you see and hear and do?
Mrs. REID. Well, I was naturally watching for the car as the
President came by. I looked at him and I was very anxious to see Mrs.
Kennedy, I looked at her and I was going to see how she was dressed and
she was dressed very attractive and she put up her hand to her hat and
was holding it on, the wind was blowing a little bit and then went on
right on by me and that is the last as far as the parade, I mean as far
as they were concerned.
I did see Johnson, and that was it. I can't even tell you any more
about the parade because after the shots I didn't know any part about that.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see and hear and do after that?
Mrs. REID. Well, when I heard--I heard three shots.
Mr. BELIN. You heard three shots?
Mrs. REID. And I turned to Mr. Campbell and I said, "Oh, my
goodness, I am afraid those came from our building," because it seemed
like they came just so directly over my head, and then I looked up in
the windows, and saw three colored boys up there, I only recognized one
because I didn't know the rest of them so well.
Mr. BELIN. Which one did you know?
Mrs. REID. James Jarman.
Mr. BELIN. You recognized James Jarman?
Mrs. REID. Yes; because I had had some dealings with him in the
business part and I knew him. I couldn't have told you the other two at
all because I didn't know them.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember that floor you saw them on?
Mrs. REID. Well, I wasn't exactly looking at the floor, I don't
know, I would say a couple of floors up. I mean several anyway. I don't
know exactly.
Mr. BELIN. You don't remember which floor it was.
Mrs. REID. I couldn't tell you because, you know, I didn't count
the floors and I didn't count them, and I made the statement "Oh, I hope
they don't think any of our boys have done this" and I had no thoughts
of anything like that. I turned and went back in the building.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, let me ask you this then.

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Mrs. REID. All right.
Mr. BELIN. Before you turned and went back into the building did
you---did Mr. Campbell say anything to you?
Mrs. REID. He said, "Oh, Mrs. Reid, no, it came from the grassy
area down this way," and that was the last I said to him.
Mr. BELIN. All right. When he said "this way" which direction was
he pointing?
Mrs. REID. Well, I hope I get my directions. In the direction of
the parade was going, in the bottom of that direction
Mr. BELIN. Now, did you look around after the shots and notice what
people were doing?
Mrs. REID. Well, it was just a mass of confusion. I saw people
beginning to fall, and the thought that went through my mind, my
goodness I must get out of this line of shots, they may fire some more.
And don't ask me why I went into the building because I don't know.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else of people running or doing
anything else?
Mrs. REID. No; because I ran into the building. I do not recall
seeing anyone in the lobby. I ran up to our office.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. DULLES. Just 1 second there. How long after the third shot did
you run into the building?
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Dulles, we did a reconstruction on that time
sequence on Friday and I am going to come to that as soon as I get the
route first.
Mr. DULLES. Right.
Mr. BELIN. You went into the building in the main lobby?
Mrs. REID. Yes; I did.
Mr. BELIN. Did you take the elevator or the stairs?
Mrs. REID. No; I went up the stairs.
Mr. BELIN. Was this the front stairs or the back stairs?
Mrs. REID. No; the front stairs.
Mr. BELIN. All right. You went up through the stairs and then what
did you do?
Mrs. REID. I went into the office.
Mr. BELIN. You went into your office?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And then what did you do?

Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was
coming in the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my
desk several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been
shot, but maybe they didn't hit him."
He mumbled something to me, I kept walking, he did, too. I didn't
pay any attention to what he said because I had no thoughts of anything

of him having any connection with it at all because he was very calm. He
had gotten a coke and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason
it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange
that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time,
not that he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the
office was to come and get change and he already had his coke in his
hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I didn't think
anything else.
Mr. BELIN. When you saw him, I believe you said you first saw him
when he was coming through the door?
Mrs. REID. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Turning to Exhibit 497, what doorway was it where you
first saw him?
Mrs. REID. Right here.
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to the doorway between numbers 27 and 28?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. On Exhibit 497?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you when you saw him in that doorway?
Mrs. REID. I was coming right through here.

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Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to what number there?
Mrs. REID. Well, it is 29.
Mr. BELIN. 29. And then about where were you when you actually
passed him or had this exchange?
Mrs. REID. Right along here. I passed my desk.
Mr. BELIN. Why don't you put on Exhibit 496 an "X" as to where you
were when you thought you passed him.
Mrs. REID. Here.
Mr. BELIN. I wonder if you would put the initial "R" which we will
put for Mrs. Reid.
Mrs. REID. All right.
Mr. BELIN. By the "X" and that is where you were when you passed him.
On March 20 you and I met for the first time, didn't we, Mrs. Reid?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. We sat down and I asked you to tell me what happened
and, you related the story. Did I keep on questioning you or did you
tell me what happened?
Mrs. REID. Well, I more or less told you what had happened.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Then we went out on the street, did we not,
in front of the building, with a stopwatch, do you remember that?
Mrs. REID. Yes; I surely do. It was kind of cool.
Mr. BELIN. It was kind of cool wasn't it, and a little bit windy.
Mrs. REID. Yes; it was; yes.
Mr. BELIN. And when in Dallas, we started the stopwatch from the
time that the last shot was fired, is that correct?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And then you went through your actions, what you saw,
your conversations that you had, and your actions in going back into the
building and up to the point that you saw Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how long by the stopwatch it took you?
Mrs. REID. Approximately 2 minutes.
Mr. DULLES. I didn't hear you.
Mrs. REID. Two minutes.
Mr. BELIN. From the time of the last shot the time you and Oswald
crossed?
Mrs. REID. Yes; I believe that is the way we timed it.
Mr. BELIN. When you--you saw me start the stopwatch and you saw me
stop it there, right?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. When you met in the lunchroom--
Mrs. REID. I didn't meet him in the lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN. Pardon me, when you met in the office, which direction
were you going, looking toward Exhibit 497, as you look on it, which
direction were you going toward the left or right?
Mrs. REID. You mean as I came in the office? I turned in and turned
to my left.
Mr. BELIN. That would be heading in a westerly direction is that right?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What direction was Oswald walking?
Mrs. REID. He was going east.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see him actually walk through or coming through
the door there?
Mrs. REID. He had just gotten to the door, was stepping in as I
glanced up.
Mr. BELIN. He was stepping in as you glanced up?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Had you ever--you said, I will put it this way, had you
ever seen Oswald in that second floor office space before apart from the
time of getting his pay?
Mrs. REID. Well, one other time he came in, now he might have been
in to get that change for this time but I didn't see him going up there,
and he made

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a remark to one of the girls back there and she said, "Well, he sure is
calm.", And I said, "What did he say to you?"
And she says, "I have a baby," and he stopped and I said, "Well, he
is pretty calm just having a new baby," and outside of that I never
remember seeing him other than to come in to get change.
Mr. BELIN. What about the other men in the warehouse, did they have
occasion to come into that office space?
Mrs. REID. Occasionally they come up to get change.
Mr. BELIN. Apart from getting change or getting paid?
Mrs. REID. No; very seldom unless they are sent up there to get
something. I mean they just don't come in there and wander around. It is
some business for them.
Now, I did see him in the lunchroom a few times prior to this
eating his lunch but I didn't even know his name.
Mr. BELIN. Did you know his name on the day you saw him?
Mrs. REID. No; I did not. When I saw his picture I still didn't
know his name until they told us who it was.
Mr. BELIN. How did you know the person you saw was Lee Harvey
Oswald on the second floor?
Mrs. REID. Because it looked just like him.
Mr. BELIN. You mean the picture with the name Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. REID. Oh, yes.
Mr. BELIN. But you had seen him in the building?
Mrs. REID. Other than that day, sure.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what clothes he had on when you saw him?
Mrs. REID. What he was wearing, he had on a white T-shirt and some
kind of wash trousers. What color I couldn't tell you.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission
Exhibit, first 157 and then 158, and I will ask you if either or both
look like they might have been the trousers that you saw him wear or can
you tell?
Mrs. REID. I just couldn't be positive about that. I would rather
not say, because I just cannot.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether he had any shirt or jacket on
over his T-shirt?
Mrs. REID. He did not. He did not have any jacket on.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen anyone working at the book depository
wearing any kind of a shirt or jacket similar to Commission Exhibit 150
or do you know?
Mrs. REID. No; I do not. I have never, so far as I know ever seen
that shirt. I have been asked about that shirt before, I have seen it
once before but not since all this happened.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Mrs. Reid, if a person were in the lunchroom
with a coke on the second floor, and then wanted to get to the front
stairway or front elevator, would there be only one route to get there
or would there be more than one?
Mrs. REID. Yes; he could either go around this hallway, or back
here in this hallway or he could have gotten through our office or--
Mr. BELIN. All right.
I wonder if in the first hallway you could mark route 1 there so we
have it on 496.
Mrs. REID. Does it matter?
Mr. BELIN. That is fine.
Mrs. REID. You said the front stairway, too?
Mr. BELIN. That is the front stairway. You have put a number 1, I
am going to put "R-l".
Mrs. REID. All right.
Mr. BELIN. And that will be one hallway to go down to get from the
lunch-room to the front stairway?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Now, would there be another way to get there?
Mrs. REID. He can come through the office.
Mr. BELIN. You could come through the office?

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Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Which is the way Lee Harvey Oswald was walking?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Would any one way be faster than the other or not?
Mrs. REID. It couldn't be very much faster because it is
practically the same distance here that it is here and you have got this
hallway there.
Mr. BELIN. So, either "R-1" or going through the office marked 29
would be approximately the same?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Now, where you saw Lee Harvey Oswald is there kind of a
pathway through there without any obstructions for desks?
Mrs. REID. Yes; there is, sort of a passageway.
Mr. BELIN. You passed at point what you have marked with an "X"?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Is that correct?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. With an "R" and "X" to it?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did Lee Harvey Oswald walk past you?
Mrs. REID. Yes; he did.
Mr. BELIN. Kept on walking in the same direction?
Mrs. REID. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you see him go?
Mrs. REID. I didn't turn around to look. He went on straight, he
did not go on past the back door because I was facing that way. What he
did after that---
Mr. BELIN. But you know he did not go out the same back door he
came in?
Mrs. REID. No; he did not.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know whether or not he went into the conference room?
Mrs. REID. Well, I wouldn't think he did because this door off here
was locked and I had unlocked it for the policeman myself.
Mr. BELIN. All right, let's put an arrow here to the door that you
say was locked, and we will put-do you want to put in the word "locked"
in there, if you would, please?
Mrs. REID. All right.
Mr. DULLES. On which side was it locked or did you take the key
away, was it locked so that you----
Mrs. REID. I would go in from this way. I wasn't going in from our
office into the conference room.
Mr. DULLES. And you locked that door?
Mrs. REID. We did. They had asked me, I went in there with the
policeman into the conference room.
Mr. DULLES. Did you take the key?
Mrs. REID. Yes, sir; I did, I got it for Mr. Williams.
Mr. DULLES. No; I mean after you locked the door do you leave the
key in the lock?
Mrs. REID. No.
Mr. BELIN. What I want to know is this, Mrs. Reid. When you came
back up into the building after the shooting and you walked into the
conference room, at that time was the door which you have marked
"locked," was it locked at that time when you came in?
Mrs. REID. Yes, sir; it was to---it was locked when I got to it, I
will say that.
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Had you been the one who had locked
it before or don't you know?
Mrs. REID. Oh, no, I couldn't say that because too many people used
the conference room.
I would have no way of knowing who locked it or if it is left
unlocked. The porter locks it in the evening.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
If one is locking that door with a key do you lock the door from
the inside of the conference room?
Mrs. REID. Either way.

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Mr. BELIN. Or the outside, either was?
Mrs. REID. Either way.
Mr. BELIN. Who has custody of the key?
Mrs. REID. I got that from Mr. Williams' desk, because that is
where I got it from, and then the porter has one. I could not say. They
all have the keys.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get it to unlock the door?
Mrs. REID. Well, by the time the policeman got there and started
searching our floor. I can't recall whether I had taken him into the
lounge first because they had me to go in there with him, the ladies'
lounge, or whether they went in there because there is a little stand in
here that Mr. Cason uses when we have a conference, and he jerked it
back because it would have been humanly possible for a person to have
gotten in there, but it was up against the wall and there was no one there.
Mr. BELIN. Would this have been more or less than 5 minutes after
you got back in the building that you opened the lounge?
Mrs. REID. That is where you all get me in this time because I was
not watching the clock that day.
Mr. BELIN. That is all right.
Mrs. REID. Time really didn't mean anything to us because they, the
police officers, just came in on us and began to ask so many questions.
Mr. BELIN. When you were at point "RX" and moving, if someone would
have walked into the conference room would you have heard him in any way?
Mrs. REID. I could have heard him open the door.
Mr. BELIN. You could hear them open the door. During the time, the
period of time you were there and saw Lee Harvey Oswald, did you hear
anyone open the door to the conference room?
Mrs. REID. I do not recall any.
Mr. BELIN. From your best judgment, if Lee Harvey Oswald didn't go
into the conference room and didn't go back to the door marked around
between 27 and 28, how would he have gotten out of the office?
Mrs. REID. Right straight out this door down this stairway and out
the front door.
Mr. BELIN. You are saying right down the hallway in the direction
in which the arrow number 29 is pointing?
Mrs. REID. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. Down through the hall and down through the front stairway.
Have you ever talked to anyone there who ever saw Lee Harvey Oswald
leave the building?
Mrs. REID. No; I haven't.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know of your own personal knowledge how he got
out of the building?
Mrs. REID. No; I do not, I do not. I have no idea.
Mr. BELIN. Mrs. Reid, did you notice whether or not the man you ran
into on the second floor whom you now identify as Lee Harvey Oswald was
carrying anything in either arm other than a coke?
Mrs. REID. No.
Mr. BELIN. Was the coke full or empty?
Mrs. REID. It was full.
Mr. BELIN. It was full.
Was there anything else you noticed about him?
Mrs. REID. No.
Mr. BELIN. Anything about the expression on his face?
Mrs. REID. No; just calm.
Mr. BELIN. Anything about whether or not his clothes were clean or
dirty?
Mrs. REID. Well, they were clean.
Mr. BELIN. Anything about whether or not his hair was combed or mussed?
Mrs. REID. No; I did not. There wasn't anything unusual.
Mr. BELIN. You say he mumbled something?
Mrs. REID. He did.
Mr. BELIN. Could you even remember one word that he mumbled?
Mrs. REID. I did not because he kept moving and I did, too, and I
was just

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not interested in what he was saying, it was just the excitement of time
and I didn't even say, "What did you say?" because I wasn't interested.
Mr. DULLES. Was he moving fast?
Mrs. REID. No; because he was moving at a very slow pace, I never
did see him moving fast at any time.
Mr. BELIN. He was moving just at his normal walk?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether he was wearing any pieces of
jewelry like a watch or bracelet or ring or something?
Mrs. REID. No; I do not remember that.
Mr. BELIN. Mrs. Reid, did you ever have any personal contact with
Lee Harvey Oswald about such things as his paycheck or anything like that?
Mrs. REID. No; I did not.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what hand he was carrying his coke in?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. In what hand?
Mrs. REID. In his right hand.
Mr. BELIN. Mrs. Reid, we thank you very much.
Mr. DULLES. Just one moment.
Mr. BELIN. Pardon me, do you have a question, sir?
Mr. DULLES. How many times do you think you saw Mr. Oswald during
the period he was employed?
Mrs. REID. My goodness.
Mr. DULLES. Roughly.
Mrs. REID. It couldn't have been--
Mr. DULLES. Five times, 10 times?
Mrs. REID. I would say five times. At times I would go down to Mr.
Truly's office for some business. I would see him across the floor, but
he paid no attention to you and there were times, the few times, he ate
lunch up there but he never talked to anyone.
Mr. DULLES. Never talked to anyone?
Mrs. REID. And he was usually reading, I noticed that.
Mr. DULLES. Did he seem to repel ordinary conversational attempts
or didn't you try that?
Mrs. REID. I never did try it, I never did.
Mr. DULLES. You never tried it.
Mrs. REID. He seemed to be interested in what he was doing, I would
never see anyone talking to him at all in the lunchroom so far as I can
recall, not any time.
Mr. DULLES. Who in the organization so far as you know would have
handled his paychecks?
Mrs. REID. Mr. Campbell.
Mr. DULLES. Campbell would have handled his paychecks.
Mrs. REID. He makes them out and then he sends them to Mr. Truly
and I am sure he distributes it to his employees.
Mr. BELIN. Two questions, Mrs. Reid.
Mrs. REID. All right.
Mr. BELIN. When we reconstructed your actions on Friday, March 20,
which you said it took about 2 minutes, would you say that this was a
maximum or minimum time?
Mrs. REID. Well, it wasn't any less than that I am sure because 2
minutes time--
Mr. BELIN. Did we kind of run?
Mrs. REID. Yes, we did, three times.
Mr. BELIN. Three times.
Mrs. REID. I remember that.
Mr. BELIN. And we were both huffing and puffing?
Mrs. REID. Yes, we were. I know I was that day, I think.
Mr. BELIN. Mrs. Reid, since the tragedy of November 22, have there
been any discussions that you have heard among any employees which might
relate to the character insofar as the Personal habits or what-have-you
of Lee Harvey Oswald?

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Mrs. REID. The only thing I have heard anybody say was he never
talked to anybody, he always went about his business, that is the only
thing I heard the employees say.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever hear anyone say that he might have been
friendly with at least one other employee?
Mrs. REID. No; I have not.
Mr. DULLES. Did the employees discuss him at all among themselves?
Mrs. REID. You mean prior to this?
Mr. DULLES. Prior, during the period he was employed there?
Mrs. REID. No.
Mr. DULLES. At the Book Depository?
Mrs. REID. I never heard it.
Mr. DULLES. They did not discuss him in your presence, the office
employees?
Mrs. REID. Well, the office employees and the warehouse employees
are not connected. We talk to them, naturally some of them have been
there a long time.
Mr. DULLES. Was it your usual practice to take lunch in the
lunchroom on the second floor?
Mrs. REID. Yes, it is; every day.
Mr. DULLES. Do you recall whether it was Lee Harvey Oswald's usual
practice or how many times possibly you saw him there at lunch with you
and the others?
Mrs. REID. You mean did he come up every day? No, he did not.
Mr. DULLES. Would you think he came up half the days or could you
give any--half the working days?
Mrs. REID. No; I wouldn't say he came that often. I can't recall
seeing him up there but three times. We have said since then, since he
sat there and didn't say anything and was reading we have often wondered
what we discussed before him because we all have a general conversation
every day at noon but I don't know we would have said anything that
interested him.
But you wondered was he listening to what we were saying, I don't
know whether he heard anything but he may have heard what we-were saying.
Mr. DULLES. You, of course, knew that Lee Harvey Oswald was an
employee of the School Book Depository?
Mrs. REID. You mean by name before this happened?
Mr. DULLES. That the individual that you later knew was Oswald was
one of the employees of the school book?
Mrs. REID. Yes, because I had seen him working in the building.
Mr. DULLES. Yes. Attorney General Carr, do you have any questions?
Mr. CARR. Mrs. Reid, have you had occasion to visit with any of
Oswald's relatives, his wife or mother?
Mrs. REID. No.
Mr. CARR. Have they been in there since that date to look over the
premises?
Mrs. REID. His mother has been but I didn't see her. She didn't go
any further than the first floor I understand, but I have never seen her
other than these pictures.
Mr. DULLES. Is it usual for the employees of the depository to have
friends visit them during office hours or would that be an unusual practice?
Mrs. REID. No; that would not be unusual. Family or somebody wanted
to drop by to see you they never have objected to that.
Mr. BELIN. I think the record should show we are offering in
evidence this morning, Mr. Dulles, Commission Exhibit 507 which is the
diagram of the seventh floor which Officer Baker testified to.
Mr. DULLES. You want that admitted now?
Mr. BELIN. We want that admitted now.
Mr. DULLES. No objection. It will be admitted.
(The diagram referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 507 for
identification and received in evidence.)
Mr. BELIN. I think those are all the questions we have of Mrs. Reid.
We want to thank you very much for your cooperation in coming up
here, Mrs. Reid.

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Mrs. REID. Thank you.
Mr. DULLES. Thank you very much, Mrs. Reid.
I will tell the Chief Justice of your cooperation and helpfulness.
We will reconvene at 2:30.
(Whereupon, at 12:35 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)

So you think she committed perjury?

[Anthony Marsh]

Pay attention. SHE told him that the President had been shot. That is a
converstation about the assassination even if she couldn't understand
what Oswald said.

> In any case, no that's not talking about the assassination.
>
>
>

You will never admit any fact.

>

[Anthony Marsh]

Not weird at all. You know how those Texas boys are about their guns.
And he explained to the 3 KGB officers in Mexico that he always carried
a gun because the FBI was out to get him.


>

[claviger]

Now you are grasping at straws.

Mrs. REID. No; I did not. There wasn't anything unusual.
Mr. BELIN. You say he mumbled something?
Mrs. REID. He did.
Mr. BELIN. Could you even remember one word that he mumbled?
Mrs. REID. I did not because he kept moving and I did, too, and I

was just not interested in what he was saying, it was just

the excitement of time and I didn't even say, "What did you
say? because I wasn't interested.
Mr. DULLES. Was he moving fast?
Mrs. REID. No; because he was moving at a very slow pace, I never
did see him moving fast at any time.
Mr. BELIN. He was moving just at his normal walk?
Mrs. REID. Yes.

> > In any case, no that's not talking about the assassination.
> You will never admit any fact.

You just presented evidence that proves me right and you wrong.
Thank you.

[claviger]

Why did LHO need a gun if he had no idea what happened when the motorcade
passed in front of his building? Why did he leave his rifle on the 6th
floor and not take it home with him?

> And he explained to the 3 KGB officers in Mexico that he always carried
> a gun because the FBI was out to get him.

So he hurried home to get his pistol because the FBI was after him? Then
why shoot the DPD Officer? He should have felt safe with hometown DPD
officers to protect him from the FBI, unless he just murdered the
President in a parade in front of his workplace. If that was the case he
should fear all law enforcement officers who serve Dallas County. In fact
he declared war on any and all police officers in the City of Dallas.
Innocent citizens do not act that way.

[Anthony Marsh]

zi just quoted Reid and they were clearly talking about the assassination.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 9/9/2018 7:39 PM, claviger wrote:
> On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 7:20:11 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 9/8/2018 12:37 AM, claviger wrote:
>>
>>>> Stop making so much sense. It confuses our CT friends.
>>> LHO had a weird lack of interest about what happened outside when the
>>> Motorcade passed by. Even more strange why he hurried home and took
>>> his pistol for a walk?
>> Not weird at all. You know how those Texas boys are about their guns.
>
> Why did LHO need a gun if he had no idea what happened when the motorcade
> passed in front of his building? Why did he leave his rifle on the 6th
> floor and not take it home with him?
>

zhe got spooked by a cop pointing a gun at his stomach.

>> And he explained to the 3 KGB officers in Mexico that he always carried
>> a gun because the FBI was out to get him.
>
> So he hurried home to get his pistol because the FBI was after him? Then

That is what was going on in his head.

> why shoot the DPD Officer? He should have felt safe with hometown DPD

Because he though the cop had been sent to kill him.
It's called paranoia.

> officers to protect him from the FBI, unless he just murdered the

Local cops protect him from the FBI? You are insane.

> President in a parade in front of his workplace. If that was the case he
> should fear all law enforcement officers who serve Dallas County. In fact

Why did he fear the cop pointing a gun at his stomac?

> he declared war on any and all police officers in the City of Dallas.
> Innocent citizens do not act that way.
>

Who said he was innocent? He had tried to assassinate General Walker.


Why do so many people pulled over for a routine traffic violation pull
out a gun and shoot the cop? Is that because they had just shot the
President?

[Steve M. Galbraith]

What exactly did Oswald tell her about the assassination in this
conversation you think they had?

[claviger]

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 10:49:15 AM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> On 9/9/2018 7:39 PM, claviger wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 7:20:11 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
> >> On 9/8/2018 12:37 AM, claviger wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Stop making so much sense. It confuses our CT friends.
> >>> LHO had a weird lack of interest about what happened outside when the
> >>> Motorcade passed by. Even more strange why he hurried home and took
> >>> his pistol for a walk?
> >> Not weird at all. You know how those Texas boys are about their guns.
> > Why did LHO need a gun if he had no idea what happened when the motorcade
> > passed in front of his building? Why did he leave his rifle on the 6th
> > floor and not take it home with him?
> zhe got spooked by a cop pointing a gun at his stomach.

His boss said he was an employee so the cop turned around
and went upstairs leaving LHO unharmed. For safety LHO
should stay near his boss not run home alone. Except he was
the sniper and knew they would find his rifle on the 6th floor.
So he took off, got on a slow bus, then found a cab.

> >> And he explained to the 3 KGB officers in Mexico that he

> >> always carrieda gun because the FBI was out to get him.

> > So he hurried home to get his pistol because the FBI was
> > after him?

> That is what was going on in his head.

So call the FBI and make an appointment, unless he was guilty
of murder.

> > why shoot the DPD Officer? He should have felt safe with hometown DPD
> Because he though the cop had been sent to kill him.
> It's called paranoia.

Kill him for what reason, unless he was a guilty sniper.

> > officers to protect him from the FBI, unless he just murdered the
> Local cops protect him from the FBI? You are insane.

They have jurisdiction over local crimes not the FBI.

> > President in a parade in front of his workplace. If that was the
> > case he should fear all law enforcement officers who serve

> Why did he fear the cop pointing a gun at his stomac?

Anyone would be nervous in that situation especially if they just
shot at someone with a rifle they brought to work that morning.

> > he declared war on any and all police officers in the City of Dallas.
> > Innocent citizens do not act that way.
> Who said he was innocent? He had tried to assassinate General Walker.

Yes he did but the FBI was not investigating that local crime.

> Why do so many people pulled over for a routine traffic violation pull
> out a gun and shoot the cop? Is that because they had just shot the
> President?

Usually because they have illegal drugs in the car or they have
committed a felony and there is a outstanding warrant on them.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Oswald was so afraid of the FBI that he went to their headquarters i
Dallas to confront the agent he thought was harassing his wife.

Yes, he was terrified of them.

[Anthony Marsh]

Doesn't matter. She didn't say they were talking about the weather.


I notice that you keep snipping out the context to leave a false impression.

Mrs. REID. I went into the office.
Mr. BELIN. You went into your office?
Mrs. REID. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And then what did you do?

Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was
coming in the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my
desk several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been
shot, but maybe they didn't hit him."
He mumbled something to me, I kept walking, he did, too. I didn't
pay any attention to what he said because I had no thoughts of anything

of him having any connection with it at all because he was very calm. He
had gotten a coke and was holding it in his hands and I guess the reason
it impressed me seeing him in there I thought it was a little strange
that one of -the warehouse boys would be up in the office at the time,
not that he had done anything wrong. The only time I had seen him in the
office was to come and get change and he already had his coke in his
hand so he didn't come for change and I dismissed him. I didn't think
anything else.
Mr. BELIN. When you saw him, I believe you said you first saw him
when he was coming through the door?
Mrs. REID. Yes, sir.

What is it about her words that confuses you?
You can't understand English?

I said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but maybe they didn't hit him."

Or you think she was lying?

You can't admit any fact. You'll even deny that she said that Oswald had a
Coke in his hand.

>
>
>

[Anthony Marsh]

You are ASSuMING things not in evidence.

>>> he declared war on any and all police officers in the City of Dallas.
>>> Innocent citizens do not act that way.
>> Who said he was innocent? He had tried to assassinate General Walker.
>
> Yes he did but the FBI was not investigating that local crime.

I SAID SHOULD have been. Or at least help with the ballistics as the
always do for local police departments.

>
>> Why do so many people pulled over for a routine traffic violation pull
>> out a gun and shoot the cop? Is that because they had just shot the
>> President?
>
> Usually because they have illegal drugs in the car or they have
> committed a felony and there is a outstanding warrant on them.
>

Or because they had just assassinated the President?
Or because they are paranoid.

[Anthony Marsh]

I didn't say afraid of.
Paranoid about.

> Yes, he was terrified of them.
>

You're making up crap.

[wsprson...@gmail.com]

So you're saying that the Warren Commission and the single bullet theory
is accurate?

[Ramon F Herrera]

On 5/16/2019 7:14 AM, wrote:
> So you're saying that the Warren Commission and the single bullet theory
> is accurate?
>

Nope. I am saying that for the first time since 1963, we -the JFK
Community- have at our disposal the data and tools needed to study in
depth and eventually declare the SBT/MBT really a "Case Closed".

The data is right here:

http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/pbs-nova
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/revit-models/TSBD+

And what have we -as a "community"- done about it?

Somewhere between very little and nothing.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

[Anthony Marsh]

On 5/16/2019 8:14 AM, wsprson...@gmail.com wrote:
> So you're saying that the Warren Commission and the single bullet theory
> is accurate?
>

Which SBT? There are dozens of them and the WC was not very exact about
theirs. Did you know that the HSCA had their own SBT?

[Anthony Marsh]

What I did was correct the HSCA map.
And you . . . nothing.

[Ramon F Herrera]

[One Hit Wonder Marsh claims:]

> What I did was correct the HSCA map.

Anything this side of the Millennium line?

Anything above ground level, Mr. Flat Earth? What is the exact height of
the sniper's nest and any other window in the the TSBD and other locations?

What kind of accuracy are we talking about?

>
> And you . . . nothing.
>

In order to make the most precise, ultimate studies and simulations, 3D
models of the:

- Vehicle
- Cranium

are obviously required. How do you propose we get those? Should we
proceed with a FOIA? Should Pamela Brown be recognized as the leader in
that area? Are you familiar with extraction of 3D CT from X-rays?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

#FreeTheCranium
#FreeTheBlueprints

[Anthony Marsh]

On 5/19/2019 11:02 AM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> On 5/17/2019 8:41 PM, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 5/16/2019 8:31 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:

>>> On 5/16/2019 7:14 AM,?? wrote:
>>>> So you're saying that the Warren Commission and the single bullet
>>>> theory
>>>> is accurate?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope. I am saying that for the first time since 1963, we -the JFK
>>> Community- have at our disposal the data and tools needed to study in
>>> depth and eventually declare the SBT/MBT really a "Case Closed".
>>>
>>> The data is right here:
>>>
>>> http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/pbs-nova
>>> http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/revit-models/TSBD+
>>>
>>>
>>> And what have we -as a "community"- done about it?
>>>
>>> Somewhere between very little and nothing.
>>>
>>> -Ramon
>>> JFK Numbers
>>>
>
> [One Hit Wonder Marsh claims:]
>> What I did was correct the HSCA map.
>
> Anything this side of the Millennium line?
>
> Anything above ground level, Mr. Flat Earth? What is the exact height of
> the sniper's nest and any other window in the the TSBD and other locations?
>
> What kind of accuracy are we talking about?
>
>>
>> And you . . . nothing.
>>
>
> In order to make the most precise, ultimate studies and simulations, 3D
> models of the:
>

> ??- Vehicle
> ??- Cranium

>
> are obviously required. How do you propose we get those? Should we
> proceed with a FOIA? Should Pamela Brown be recognized as the leader in
> that area? Are you familiar with extraction of 3D CT from X-rays?

Yes. I love Pamela and respect all the work she has done, even when I
don't agree with he 100%. But why leave out the diagrams we already have
of the limo, the limo itself, and the replicas people have built. The
problem is not the limo. The problem is what assumptions people make to
try to get a SBT to work.

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

On Tuesday, December 7, 2010 at 7:31:37 AM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
> I was listening to this 2008 radio interview with Debra Conway's
> sister, Sherry Fiester, and I was just amazed at how totally inept and
> ridiculous Fiester's "trajectory analysis" is.
>
> Fiester is basically telling people this:
>
> I'll just invent an entry hole and an exit hole in JFK's head and then
> draw a trajectory line between the two points and then I'll pretend
> that I've proved that President Kennedy was shot in the head from the
> front. All the while I will make sure I'll totally ignore all of the
> best evidence that exists that proves JFK was shot in the head only
> from behind....i.e., I'll ignore the autopsy report, I'll ignore the
> autopsy doctors' testimony, and I'll ignore the autopsy photos and X-
> rays.
>
> This woman's presentation is absolutely pathetic:
>
>
> http://www.nightfrightshow.com/Night_Fright_Archives_MP3s/2008-11-05%20JFK%20Sherry%20Fiester%20JFK%20Bullet%20TrajectoriesMASTERD.mp3

You mean this Sherry Fiester?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12336607&postcount=751

It appears Ms. Fiester was following the money, inflated her resume, and
wrote a CT book. Big surprise there. If anyone has any contrary
documentation / evidence (her own website and CT websites citing her own
resume are not that evidence), I'd love to see that.

Hank

[Ramon F Herrera]

On 5/17/2019 8:41 PM, Anthony Marsh wrote:

[Illustrious Anthony Marsh claims:]

>
> What I did was correct the HSCA map.
> And you . . . nothing.
>

This is a small sample of the work done by the JFK Numbers effort:

"Dale Myers Fans Ask: What Do You Have to Show for Your Efforts?"
https://vimeo.com/330269922

which should be YOUR effort, right?

After all, you are interested in The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing
But The Truth, correcto?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

[Ramon F Herrera]

Are you aware that Sherry Fiester has passed away?

She was the sister of Debra Conway, JFK Lancer founder, who is one of
the few JFK community leaders that I fully trust at this point.

Say, Hank, since you are not satisfied with her work, wouldn't you say
that Authoritative Entities should be summoned? To work on those and other
JFK Numbers? MIT and other top schools and centers of research can
definitely provide the best possible credentials in an OPEN, scientific
environment, right?

Do you agree?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

ps: Can you please explain your "follow the money" reticence? Contrast
it with:

- Dale Myers

- Fred Litwin
Nice review of "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak" by Max Holland
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/9nZlnuZlx2U/B7t7koqjAQAJ

- Edward Bauer
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/UoCdMQnpNGI/jJfECiTJDQAJ

[Anthony Marsh]

OK, so your only way out of facts is to accuse all conspiracy believers
of being in it only for the money. So how much money have I made out of
this? Have you ever seen my mansion on a hill?

[Ramon F Herrera]

Most book authors barely break even, activists have to make expenses out
of their own pockets. For example, those who declare that their projects
are and will forever be:

- Not For Profit
- Free Open Source

For the Houston Trial of Lee, Bill Kelly -CAP Board Director- couldn't
make it, the Big Wigs (Alec Baldwin, etc.) took all the hotel rooms. If
he had, he was going to crash in my couch.

This Herrera Maxim applies to Joe Zircon:

Those who cannot tell the difference between power and money have
never had either.

The supreme irony is how Trumpites hate capitalism and competition.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

What facts? That Sherry Fiester apparently inflated her resume?

Straw man that I accused all CTs of being in it for the money. Many of the
CT authors, absolutely. Folks who post online for free, not so much. As
far as I know, there's no money to be made there.

What I did say was Sherry Fiester appears to have inflated her resume,
apparently does not have the background in law enforcement nor blood
spatter analysis she claimed she did, and ergo does not appear qualified
to render an opinion here of any sort based on trajectory analysis nor
blood spatter analysis.

If that's true, she wrote a book pretending to be something she's not. And
those types of endeavors are usually limited to two types of motivation:
Fame or money (or both).

Do you have information about where she served as a LEO? Where she got her
training in crime scene analysis? Where she acquired her background in
blood spatter analysis? Can you cite where she got her degree in forensic
analysis? You will note in the interview I cite here she is very imprecise
about where she served. She gets no more specific that "Louisiana".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ESO8k9Zkxw

It's not my problem that most CT 'experts' aren't what they claim to be.
Robert Groden wasn't a photographic analyst, neither was Jack White.
Sherry Fiester can apparently be added to the list of phony CT experts.

Hank

[Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon)]

Yes.

>
> She was the sister of Debra Conway, JFK Lancer founder,

I know.

> who is one of
> the few JFK community leaders that I fully trust at this point.

Does your trust in her extend to her sister? If Sherry Fiester inflated
her resume, Debra Conway should know about that, I would think. Ask her
for the evidence that Sherry Fiester had the background she claimed she
had.

>
> Say, Hank, since you are not satisfied with her work, wouldn't you say
> that Authoritative Entities should be summoned?

No. The case is solved, and has been solved since the weekend of the
assassination. The arguments presented by CTs are window-dressing, hoping
solely to find a conspiracy and/or show Oswald was innocent. Any
additional studies will be picked over for contradictions and outliers as
were all the prior ones, like vultures picking at a dead carcass.

> To work on those and other
> JFK Numbers? MIT and other top schools and centers of research can
> definitely provide the best possible credentials in an OPEN, scientific
> environment, right?
>
> Do you agree?

No. No matter which group looks at the evidence, if they render an opinion
that there was no conspiracy and Oswald was the lone assassin, conspiracy
theorists will attack the group as unreliable, in the pay of the
government, etc.

>
> -Ramon
> JFK Numbers
>
> ps: Can you please explain your "follow the money" reticence?

You mean "follow the money" reference? Fiester wrote the book for money,
in my opinion. And inflated her resume along the way to give her claims
more gravitas.

> Contrast
> it with:
>
> - Dale Myers
>
> - Fred Litwin
> Nice review of "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak" by Max Holland
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/9nZlnuZlx2U/B7t7koqjAQAJ
>
> - Edward Bauer
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/UoCdMQnpNGI/jJfECiTJDQAJ

Hank

[Ramon F Herrera]

Not according to America. Not in YOUR baseball field. Not by any
Authoritative Entity.

https://vimeo.com/328616951

All files (except the latest) are locked up. Your trust in the contents
of those files is based on pure Faith. Science always provides solutions
that are agreeable by everybody.

[Based on his mind reading, future predicting powers and trusted crystal
ball, Hank claimed:]

> The arguments presented by CTs are window-dressing, hoping solely to
> find a conspiracy and/or show Oswald was innocent. Any additional
> studies will be picked over for contradictions and outliers as were all
> the prior ones, like vultures picking at a dead carcass.
>
>

It is a good thing then that the JFK Numbers project has:

-No theories
-No hypotheses

In fact, when asked: what do you want to prove, my/our reply is:

"Absolutely nothing"

All we have is a few question, all of numerical nature. As you know,
numbers don't lie.

Furthermore, every person involved with the JFK Numbers projects must
adhere to the following pledge:

"I hereby promise to accept the determinations of the top schools and
centers of research on the numerical aspects of the case"

If they won't, they are out. I don't care how Big their Wig is.

Example: One of the most extreme, Mantik, is already bound.

Too bad your experts continue running away.

The questions that I keep on asking and you people keep on leaving
unanswered:

(1) The X-rays most famous and controversial in history are decaying as
we speak. They are suffering the ravage of time. The National Archives has
approved our preservation project. The only problem is that the your
Notable Doctors are reticent to join. Should this project continue?
Without your Notables? Should I insist on lobbying them?

(2) For the first time in history, the precise laser measurements have
been donated by the producers of the NOVA program (PBS and Scientific
Analysis) to the JFK Community. The files are here:

http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/pbs-nova
http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/tsbd-exterior/top-rendering

Since your opinion is important, if is is up to you:

(2a) Should the efforts that will determine that indeed it was Lee,
alone, 3 shots continue?

(2b) Should a Titanic-like 3D model be assembled?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.assassination.jfk/cOd023uLvgU/olSe710gAgAJ

(2c) Should I just erase those files and tell PBS: "Joe Zircon and his
companions don't like any progress, in any direction"?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

[Ramon F Herrera]

On 5/22/2019 10:09 AM, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote:
>
> [skeptics] like vultures picking at a dead carcass.
>

And you merrily digest their leftovers, with gusto.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

[Ramon F Herrera]

On 5/22/2019 10:09 AM, Hank Sienzant (AKA Joe Zircon) wrote:
>
> Does your trust in her extend to her sister?
>

I have stated that Sherry Fiester was not an Authoritative Entity. Not to
the degree that is required to deal with the complex numerical problems of
the case.

I am sure that you and I agree so far.

What is needed then? That's right, Authoritative Entities, the top schools
and centers of scientific research. Those who have a worldwide reputation
to uphold.

Science and technology have made huge advancements since the last study
(2013). Some problems are untouched, such as the digitalization of the
radiographs (two from the autopsy, one from the victim's dentist) and
extraction of a 3D model (*)

Which university do you trust?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

(*) To be donated to the National Archives. The Notable Doctors
skeptical of the official version are in full agreement.

[Anthony Marsh]

I disagreed with both of them on many things, but I respect their efforts.
At least they actually did some research, rather than always lying. You
don't know how to do research so the only thing you can do is make
personal insults.

>
>>
>> Say, Hank, since you are not satisfied with her work, wouldn't you say
>> that Authoritative Entities should be summoned?
>
> No. The case is solved, and has been solved since the weekend of the

Yes, at that time they knew it was a conspiracy.

> assassination. The arguments presented by CTs are window-dressing, hoping
> solely to find a conspiracy and/or show Oswald was innocent. Any
> additional studies will be picked over for contradictions and outliers as
> were all the prior ones, like vultures picking at a dead carcass.
>
>
>> To work on those and other
>> JFK Numbers? MIT and other top schools and centers of research can
>> definitely provide the best possible credentials in an OPEN, scientific
>> environment, right?
>>
>> Do you agree?
>
> No. No matter which group looks at the evidence, if they render an opinion
> that there was no conspiracy and Oswald was the lone assassin, conspiracy
> theorists will attack the group as unreliable, in the pay of the
> government, etc.
>

Another in your long list of lies. The HSCA looked at the evidence and
said conspiracy.