Re: Vowels / Arthur Rimbaud (c&c)
George Dance
Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing cries
Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
---
Arthur Rimbaud
translated by George Dance
adamlynn
A valiant effort to remain faithful to the original's rhyme
scheme. The more I read it, the more I like it.
Voyelles
A noir, E blanc, I rouge, U vert, 0 bleu: voyelles,
Je dirai quelque jour vos naissances latentes.
A, noir corset velu des mouches éclatantes
Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
I, pourpres, sang craché, rire des lèvres belles
Dans la colère ou les ivresses pénitentes ;
U, cycles, vibrements divins des mers virides,
Paix des pâtis semés d'animaux, paix des rides
Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
O, suprême Clairon plein de strideurs étranges,
Silences traversés des Mondes et des Anges:
- O, l'Oméga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
and there ya go...
George Dance
hanks Adam. The revision's coming along nicely -- I've made changes
in 7 lines this morning -- and I hope the next version will help you
like it a bit more.
The revision I just made, so I'm still thinking and want to talk about
it, was to redo the last words as 'Her Eyes' (with Rimbaud's caps
restored). I started trying to remember what Rimbaud wrote about
moving to the poetic level of thought -- I can't remember the term he
used for that end-state. However, I vividly remember the way he
advised to get there: "a progressive derangement of the senses".
That gave me the idea to interpret the poem as a magical or alchemical
formula or recipe for doing just that; the mixing of the sense imagery
in the poem is itself the progressive derangement. And the alchemy
works: at
the end of the poem, he's in the poetic end-state; as proof of which,
the White Goddess appears.
Will Dockery
I've read several different translations over the years, and I'd say
yours is as good and in some cases better than those already out
there.
I wonder if Stuart will clarify how this corresponds or differs with
his wish for "words to be in colors" or however he phrased it.
Looking on the net, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of essays on
"Vowels" by Rimbaud... this one was interesting, which, more than just
the poemm deals with when Rimbaud & Verlaine lived in England for a
spell:
"...Rimbaud was 'delighted and astonished' by London. Verlaine was
overwhelmed by the 'incessant railways on splendid cast-iron bridges'
and the 'brutal, loud-mouthed people in the streets', but inspired by
the 'interminable docks'. The city was, he wrote, 'prudish, but with
every vice on offer', and, 'permanently sozzled, despite ridiculous
bills on drunkenness'. The two poets were often sozzled, too: on ale,
gin and absinthe. Rimbaud's extraordinary sonnet "Voyelles" (Vowels),
which gained an instant cult following, was clearly inspired by his
experiments with 'the Green Fairy'..."
--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
adamlynn
>
> - Show quoted text -
".....the White Goddess appears."
You've got to dance with the green fairy first.....
Will Dockery
> Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
>
> Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> Dans la col�re ou les ivresses p�nitentes ;
>
> U, cycles, vibrements divins des mers virides,
> Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
>
> Silences travers�s des Mondes et des Anges:
> - O, l'Om�ga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
hanks Adam. The revision's coming along nicely -- I've made changes
in 7 lines this morning -- and I hope the next version will help you
like it a bit more.
The revision I just made, so I'm still thinking and want to talk about
it, was to redo the last words as 'Her Eyes' (with Rimbaud's caps
restored). I started trying to remember what Rimbaud wrote about
moving to the poetic level of thought -- I can't remember the term he
used for that end-state.
//The poet becomes a *Seer*... at least that's what all the English
translations of the statement use.
However, I vividly remember the way he
advised to get there: "a progressive derangement of the senses".
That gave me the idea to interpret the poem as a magical or alchemical
formula or recipe for doing just that; the mixing of the sense imagery
in the poem is itself the progressive derangement. And the alchemy
works: at
the end of the poem, he's in the poetic end-state; as proof of which,
the White Goddess appears.
--
PrettyStuzz
<da14c6b5-3f0e-46fe...@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 10:15īŋŊam, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Feb 8, 11:33īŋŊpm, adamlynn <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 8, 10:41īŋŊpm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > > Vowels
> >
> > > > Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
> > > > Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> > > > Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> > > > Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
> >
> > > > White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> > > > of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> > > > Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> > > > In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
> >
> > > > Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> > > > Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> > > > Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
> >
> > > > Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing cries
> > > > Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> > > > Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
> >
> > > > ---
> > > > Arthur Rimbaud
> > > > translated by George Dance
> >
> > > A valiant effort to remain faithful to the original's rhyme
> > > scheme. The more I read it, the more I like it.
> >
> > > Voyelles
> >
> > > A noir, E blanc, I rouge, U vert, 0 bleu: voyelles,
> > > Je dirai quelque jour vos naissances latentes.
> > > A, noir corset velu des mouches īŋŊclatantes
> > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
> >
> > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > I, pourpres, sang crachīŋŊ, rire des līŋŊvres belles
> > > Dans la colīŋŊre ou les ivresses pīŋŊnitentes ;
> >
> > > U, cycles, vibrements divins des mers virides,
> > > Paix des pīŋŊtis semīŋŊs d'animaux, paix des rides
> > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
> >
> > > O, suprīŋŊme Clairon plein de strideurs īŋŊtranges,
> > > Silences traversīŋŊs des Mondes et des Anges:
> > > - O, l'OmīŋŊga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
> >
> > hanks Adam. The revision's coming along nicely -- I've made changes
> > in 7 lines this morning -- and I hope the next version will help you
> > like it a bit more.
> >
> > The revision I just made, so I'm still thinking and want to talk about
> > it, was to redo the last words as 'Her Eyes' (with Rimbaud's caps
> > restored). I started trying to remember what Rimbaud wrote about
> > moving to the poetic level of thought -- I can't remember the term he
> > used for that end-state. However, I vividly remember the way he
> > advised to get there: "a progressive derangement of the senses".
> >
> > That gave me the idea to interpret the poem as a magical or alchemical
> > formula or recipe for doing just that; the mixing of the sense imagery
> > in the poem is itself the progressive derangement. And the alchemy
> > works: at
> > the end of the poem, he's in the poetic end-state; as proof of which,
> > the White Goddess appears.
!!
>
> I've read several different translations over the years, and I'd say
> yours is as good and in some cases better than those already out
> there.
'as good as...better than'
>
> I wonder if Stuart will clarify how this corresponds or differs with
> his wish for "words to be in colors" or however he phrased it.
'corresponds to or differs from'
In the future, don't use quotation marks with someone's name or work if
you're not certain.
I don't see any connection; maybe what I wrote was a trigger.
English 'facetious' has all the vowels in their alphabetical sequence
('facetiously' when you treat 'y' as a vowel); Rimbaud deranges the 'o'
in his poem; English 'facetious' comes from French 'facīŋŊtieux'; just
saying.
> Looking on the net, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of essays on
> "Vowels" by Rimbaud... this one was interesting, which, more than just
> the poemm deals with when Rimbaud & Verlaine lived in England for a
> spell:
"Looking on the net" is a dangling modifier.
>
> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/verlaine-and-ri
> mbaud-poets-from-hell-525605.html
>
> "...Rimbaud was 'delighted and astonished' by London. Verlaine was
> overwhelmed by the 'incessant railways on splendid cast-iron bridges'
> and the 'brutal, loud-mouthed people in the streets', but inspired by
> the 'interminable docks'. The city was, he wrote, 'prudish, but with
> every vice on offer', and, 'permanently sozzled, despite ridiculous
> bills on drunkenness'. The two poets were often sozzled, too: on ale,
> gin and absinthe. Rimbaud's extraordinary sonnet "Voyelles" (Vowels),
> which gained an instant cult following, was clearly inspired by his
> experiments with 'the Green Fairy'..."
Ain't it ironic that absinthe became legal in the US at the same time
you quit drinking?
Will Dockery
> Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Feb 9, 10:15 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > On Feb 8, 11:33 pm, adamlynn <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 8, 10:41 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > Vowels
>
> > > > > Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
> > > > > Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> > > > > Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> > > > > Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
>
> > > > > White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> > > > > of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> > > > > Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> > > > > In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
>
> > > > > Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> > > > > Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> > > > > Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
>
> > > > > Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing cries
> > > > > Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> > > > > Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
>
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Arthur Rimbaud
> > > > > translated by George Dance
>
> > > > A valiant effort to remain faithful to the original's rhyme
> > > > scheme. The more I read it, the more I like it.
>
> > > > Voyelles
>
> > > > A noir, E blanc, I rouge, U vert, 0 bleu: voyelles,
> > > > Je dirai quelque jour vos naissances latentes.
> > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
>
> > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > Dans la colère ou les ivresses pénitentes ;
>
> > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
>
> > > > - O, l'Oméga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
> saying.
>
> > Looking on the net, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of essays on
> > "Vowels" by Rimbaud... this one was interesting, which, more than just
> > the poemm deals with when Rimbaud & Verlaine lived in England for a
> > spell:
>
> "Looking on the net" is a dangling modifier.
Interestingly, I just posted some thought/questions on a similar track
over on the "Amelia" thread.
> >http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/verlai...
> > mbaud-poets-from-hell-525605.html
>
> > "...Rimbaud was 'delighted and astonished' by London. Verlaine was
> > overwhelmed by the 'incessant railways on splendid cast-iron bridges'
> > and the 'brutal, loud-mouthed people in the streets', but inspired by
> > the 'interminable docks'. The city was, he wrote, 'prudish, but with
> > every vice on offer', and, 'permanently sozzled, despite ridiculous
> > bills on drunkenness'. The two poets were often sozzled, too: on ale,
> > gin and absinthe. Rimbaud's extraordinary sonnet "Voyelles" (Vowels),
> > which gained an instant cult following, was clearly inspired by his
> > experiments with 'the Green Fairy'..."
>
> Ain't it ironic that absinthe became legal in the US at the same time
> you quit drinking?
Is it really the /real thing/ now, though?
Hard to believe they're actually legally selling narcotic drinks in
the USA now... are they really?
Nobody I know has talked to me about it yet, and I haven't asked.
PrettyStuzz
<9dee3217-9905-49f7...@g27g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 12:22īŋŊpm, PrettyStuzz <leich...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > īŋŊWill Dockery wrote:
> > > On Feb 9, 10:15īŋŊam, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 8, 11:33īŋŊpm, adamlynn <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Feb 8, 10:41īŋŊpm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > Vowels
> >
> > > > > > Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
> > > > > > Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> > > > > > Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> > > > > > Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
> >
> > > > > > White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> > > > > > of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> > > > > > Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> > > > > > In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
> >
> > > > > > Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> > > > > > Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> > > > > > Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
> >
> > > > > > Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing cries
> > > > > > Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> > > > > > Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
> >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Arthur Rimbaud
> > > > > > translated by George Dance
> >
> > > > > A valiant effort to remain faithful to the original's rhyme
> > > > > scheme. The more I read it, the more I like it.
> >
> > > > > Voyelles
> >
> > > > > A noir, E blanc, I rouge, U vert, 0 bleu: voyelles,
> > > > > Je dirai quelque jour vos naissances latentes.
> > > > > A, noir corset velu des mouches īŋŊclatantes
> > > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
> >
> > > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > > I, pourpres, sang crachīŋŊ, rire des līŋŊvres belles
> > > > > Dans la colīŋŊre ou les ivresses pīŋŊnitentes ;
> >
> > > > > U, cycles, vibrements divins des mers virides,
> > > > > Paix des pīŋŊtis semīŋŊs d'animaux, paix des rides
> > > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
> >
> > > > > O, suprīŋŊme Clairon plein de strideurs īŋŊtranges,
> > > > > Silences traversīŋŊs des Mondes et des Anges:
> > > > > - O, l'OmīŋŊga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
> > in his poem; English 'facetious' comes from French 'facīŋŊtieux'; just
> > saying.
> >
> > > Looking on the net, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of essays on
> > > "Vowels" by Rimbaud... this one was interesting, which, more than just
> > > the poemm deals with when Rimbaud & Verlaine lived in England for a
> > > spell:
> >
> > "Looking on the net" is a dangling modifier.
>
> Interestingly, I just posted some thought/questions on a similar track
> over on the "Amelia" thread.
>
> > >http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/verlai...
> > > mbaud-poets-from-hell-525605.html
> >
> > > "...Rimbaud was 'delighted and astonished' by London. Verlaine was
> > > overwhelmed by the 'incessant railways on splendid cast-iron bridges'
> > > and the 'brutal, loud-mouthed people in the streets', but inspired by
> > > the 'interminable docks'. The city was, he wrote, 'prudish, but with
> > > every vice on offer', and, 'permanently sozzled, despite ridiculous
> > > bills on drunkenness'. The two poets were often sozzled, too: on ale,
> > > gin and absinthe. Rimbaud's extraordinary sonnet "Voyelles" (Vowels),
> > > which gained an instant cult following, was clearly inspired by his
> > > experiments with 'the Green Fairy'..."
> >
> > Ain't it ironic that absinthe became legal in the US at the same time
> > you quit drinking?
>
> Is it really the /real thing/ now, though?
Yes. It's the Lucid label. I believe it's the only brand permitted.
Chartreuse (the green, not the yellow) is a much finer spirit, a
superior hallucinogen, and embodies an impossibly divine fragrance whose
bouquet surpasses its own fragrance.
>
> Hard to believe they're actually legally selling narcotic drinks in
> the USA now... are they really?
Wasn't that 'narcotic' nonsense hype in the first place (before there
was the word 'hype')?
=z=
> In article
> <9dee3217-9905-49f7-8290-9f729725d...@g27g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
> Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 9, 12:22 pm, PrettyStuzz <leich...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 9, 10:15 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > > On Feb 8, 11:33 pm, adamlynn <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Feb 8, 10:41 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Vowels
>
> > > > > > > Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
> > > > > > > Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> > > > > > > Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> > > > > > > Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
>
> > > > > > > White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> > > > > > > of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> > > > > > > Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> > > > > > > In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
>
> > > > > > > Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> > > > > > > Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> > > > > > > Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
>
> > > > > > > Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing cries
> > > > > > > Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> > > > > > > Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
>
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Arthur Rimbaud
> > > > > > > translated by George Dance
>
> > > > > > A valiant effort to remain faithful to the original's rhyme
> > > > > > scheme. The more I read it, the more I like it.
>
> > > > > > Voyelles
>
> > > > > > A noir, E blanc, I rouge, U vert, 0 bleu: voyelles,
> > > > > > Je dirai quelque jour vos naissances latentes.
> > > > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
>
> > > > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > > > Dans la colère ou les ivresses pénitentes ;
>
> > > > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
>
> > > > > > - O, l'Oméga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Absinthe and "la fée verte"...
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Feb 9, 10:15 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> On Feb 8, 11:33 pm, adamlynn <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
> > >> On Feb 8, 10:41 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > > scheme. The more I read it, the more I like it.
>
> > > > > > Voyelles
>
> > > > > > A noir, E blanc, I rouge, U vert, 0 bleu: voyelles,
> > > > > > Je dirai quelque jour vos naissances latentes.
> > > > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
>
> > > > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > > > Dans la colīŋŊre ou les ivresses pīŋŊnitentes ;
>
> > > > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
>
> > > > > > - O, l'OmīŋŊga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
Yes, my grandfather was a Poulan Chain Saw dealer, with the chartreuse chain
saw shop across from the big house... one of my earliest favorite colors.
not the yellow) is a much finer spirit, a
> superior hallucinogen, and embodies an impossibly divine fragrance whose
> bouquet surpasses its own fragrance.
>
> > Hard to believe they're actually legally selling narcotic drinks in
> > the USA now... are they really?
>
> Wasn't that 'narcotic' nonsense hype in the first place (before there
> was the word 'hype')?
The whole Oil of Wormwood, thing, I think it was?
--
"Silver Blazing Sun" written by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard, performed by
The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DOt-RTkMkQJo
George Dance
Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: you vowels,
Some day I'll tell the tale of where your mystery lies:
Black A, a jacket sewn from hairy, shiny flies
Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels;
White E, the white of kings, of moon-washed fogs and tents,
of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the curl of lips
In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence;
Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
Blue O, great Trumpet blaring strange and piercing cries
Through Silences where Worlds and Angels pass crosswise;
Omega, O, the violet brilliance of Her Eyes!
George Dance
> <da14c6b5-3f0e-46fe-a796-7155fc661...@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 9, 10:15 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > On Feb 8, 11:33 pm, adamlynn <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 8, 10:41 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > Vowels
>
> > > > > Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
> > > > > Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> > > > > Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> > > > > Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
>
> > > > > White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> > > > > of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> > > > > Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> > > > > In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
>
> > > > > Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> > > > > Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> > > > > Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
>
> > > > > Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing cries
> > > > > Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> > > > > Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
>
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Arthur Rimbaud
> > > > > translated by George Dance
>
> > > > A valiant effort to remain faithful to the original's rhyme
> > > > scheme. The more I read it, the more I like it.
>
> > > > Voyelles
>
> > > > A noir, E blanc, I rouge, U vert, 0 bleu: voyelles,
> > > > Je dirai quelque jour vos naissances latentes.
> > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
>
> > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > Dans la colère ou les ivresses pénitentes ;
>
> > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
>
> > > > - O, l'Oméga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
>
> > > hanks Adam. The revision's coming along nicely -- I've made changes
> > > in 7 lines this morning -- and I hope the next version will help you
> > > like it a bit more.
>
> > > The revision I just made, so I'm still thinking and want to talk about
> > > it, was to redo the last words as 'Her Eyes' (with Rimbaud's caps
> > > restored). I started trying to remember what Rimbaud wrote about
> > > moving to the poetic level of thought -- I can't remember the term he
> > > used for that end-state. However, I vividly remember the way he
> > > advised to get there: "a progressive derangement of the senses".
>
> > > That gave me the idea to interpret the poem as a magical or alchemical
> > > formula or recipe for doing just that; the mixing of the sense imagery
> > > in the poem is itself the progressive derangement. And the alchemy
> > > works: at
> > > the end of the poem, he's in the poetic end-state; as proof of which,
> > > the White Goddess appears.
>
> !!
>
Well, I revised that out again today; there's no sense in making the
poem too easy for the reader. Now it's 'Their Eyes!', which makes the
Angels a bit more important since it most obviously refers to them.
I also changed L3 to "a jacket formed of hairy, shiny flies". Formed
is better than sewn, as it leaves open the possibility the flies are
still alive. (That reminded me of being swarmed by blackflies; OTOH,
it gave Maureen the image of houseflies crawling over a corpse.) And
the 'verdant' pastures of L10 are now 'peaceful pastures,' to get the
second use of 'peace' in that line.
The revision process has been fun, as always but it'll soon be over.
This may be your last chance to get in any suggestions you may have.
>
> > I've read several different translations over the years, and I'd say
> > yours is as good and in some cases better than those already out
> > there.
>
> 'as good as...better than'
>
When I post a final final (probably on my blog in March), I will send
Will a proofed version of his sentence and ask him to post it there as
a comment. Then I can quote him in jacket blurbs and the like.
> > I wonder if Stuart will clarify how this corresponds or differs with
> > his wish for "words to be in colors" or however he phrased it.
>
> 'corresponds to or differs from'
>
> In the future, don't use quotation marks with someone's name or work if
> you're not certain.
>
> I don't see any connection; maybe what I wrote was a trigger.
It was an event in a chain, causal or not. Your comment inspired Will
to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem, and
get the idea of translating it.
> English 'facetious' has all the vowels in their alphabetical sequence
> ('facetiously' when you treat 'y' as a vowel); Rimbaud deranges the 'o'
> in his poem; English 'facetious' comes from French 'facétieux'; just
> saying.
>
'Abstemious' is another, and it even starts with 'a'.
> > Looking on the net, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of essays on
> > "Vowels" by Rimbaud... this one was interesting, which, more than just
> > the poemm deals with when Rimbaud & Verlaine lived in England for a
> > spell:
>
> "Looking on the net" is a dangling modifier.
>
>
>
> >http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/verlai...
PrettyStuzz
<d2a394df-fddb-43d8...@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 12:22īŋŊpm, PrettyStuzz <leich...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <da14c6b5-3f0e-46fe-a796-7155fc661...@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> > īŋŊWill Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 9, 10:15īŋŊam, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > On Feb 8, 11:33īŋŊpm, adamlynn <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Feb 8, 10:41īŋŊpm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > Vowels
> >
> > > > > > Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
> > > > > > Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> > > > > > Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> > > > > > Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
> >
> > > > > > White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> > > > > > of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> > > > > > Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> > > > > > In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
> >
> > > > > > Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> > > > > > Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> > > > > > Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
> >
> > > > > > Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing cries
> > > > > > Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> > > > > > Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
> >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Arthur Rimbaud
> > > > > > translated by George Dance
> >
> > > > > A valiant effort to remain faithful to the original's rhyme
> > > > > scheme. The more I read it, the more I like it.
> >
> > > > > Voyelles
> >
> > > > > A noir, E blanc, I rouge, U vert, 0 bleu: voyelles,
> > > > > Je dirai quelque jour vos naissances latentes.
> > > > > A, noir corset velu des mouches īŋŊclatantes
> > > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
> >
> > > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > > I, pourpres, sang crachīŋŊ, rire des līŋŊvres belles
> > > > > Dans la colīŋŊre ou les ivresses pīŋŊnitentes ;
> >
> > > > > U, cycles, vibrements divins des mers virides,
> > > > > Paix des pīŋŊtis semīŋŊs d'animaux, paix des rides
> > > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
> >
> > > > > O, suprīŋŊme Clairon plein de strideurs īŋŊtranges,
> > > > > Silences traversīŋŊs des Mondes et des Anges:
> > > > > - O, l'OmīŋŊga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
> >
> > > > hanks Adam. The revision's coming along nicely -- I've made changes
> > > > in 7 lines this morning -- and I hope the next version will help you
> > > > like it a bit more.
> >
> > > > The revision I just made, so I'm still thinking and want to talk about
> > > > it, was to redo the last words as 'Her Eyes' (with Rimbaud's caps
> > > > restored). I started trying to remember what Rimbaud wrote about
> > > > moving to the poetic level of thought -- I can't remember the term he
> > > > used for that end-state. However, I vividly remember the way he
> > > > advised to get there: "a progressive derangement of the senses".
> >
> > > > That gave me the idea to interpret the poem as a magical or alchemical
> > > > formula or recipe for doing just that; the mixing of the sense imagery
> > > > in the poem is itself the progressive derangement. And the alchemy
> > > > works: at
> > > > the end of the poem, he's in the poetic end-state; as proof of which,
> > > > the White Goddess appears.
> >
> > !!
> >
>
> Well, I revised that out again today; there's no sense in making the
> poem too easy for the reader. Now it's 'Their Eyes!', which makes the
> Angels a bit more important since it most obviously refers to them.
I was applauding your exegesis there, not your translation.
The original end makes me see Elizabeth Taylor in stockings.
>
> I also changed L3 to "a jacket formed of hairy, shiny flies". Formed
> is better than sewn, as it leaves open the possibility the flies are
> still alive. (That reminded me of being swarmed by blackflies; OTOH,
> it gave Maureen the image of houseflies crawling over a corpse.) And
> the 'verdant' pastures of L10 are now 'peaceful pastures,' to get the
> second use of 'peace' in that line.
>
> The revision process has been fun, as always but it'll soon be over.
> This may be your last chance to get in any suggestions you may have.
Moi? Je ne dis rien.
I don't think anyone but a poet can 'translate' or transfer poetry.
I don't think Rimbaud was a poet. You would have to agree that
anti-poetry is a kind of poetry to call him a poet. A lot of people say
atheism is a form of religion. People say science is a form of religion.
People say really stupid things.
>
> >
> > > I've read several different translations over the years, and I'd say
> > > yours is as good and in some cases better than those already out
> > > there.
> >
> > 'as good as...better than'
> >
>
> When I post a final final (probably on my blog in March), I will send
> Will a proofed version of his sentence and ask him to post it there as
> a comment. Then I can quote him in jacket blurbs and the like.
George? You do realize that he'll use those sentences and say he's been
asked to be quoted on book jackets, internationally?
>
> > > I wonder if Stuart will clarify how this corresponds or differs with
> > > his wish for "words to be in colors" or however he phrased it.
> >
> > 'corresponds to or differs from'
> >
> > In the future, don't use quotation marks with someone's name or work if
> > you're not certain.
> >
> > I don't see any connection; maybe what I wrote was a trigger.
>
> It was an event in a chain, causal or not. Your comment inspired Will
> to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem, and
> get the idea of translating it.
Will was 'inspired'? Do you know what 'inspired' means? DO you know who
'Will' is?
>
>
> > English 'facetious' has all the vowels in their alphabetical sequence
> > ('facetiously' when you treat 'y' as a vowel); Rimbaud deranges the 'o'
> > in his poem; English 'facetious' comes from French 'facīŋŊtieux'; just
> > saying.
> >
>
> 'Abstemious' is another, and it even starts with 'a'.
!!!
It's not a French word; I don't think there's a French cognate.
But if the Rimbaud piece came from his London debauches, you may have
found a key.
Talk to someone, you might be able to get published in Notes & Queries.
The Star or Globe & Mail would probably give you a few inches, but they
lack the prestige such an article deserves. TLS used to be a valuable
store for such kernels.
Yes, I'm quite serious.
Will Dockery
> George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >Will Dockery wrote:
> > >George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
>
> > > > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > > > Dans la colère ou les ivresses pénitentes ;
>
> > > > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
>
> > > > > > - O, l'Oméga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
He wrote poetry but wasn't a poet?
> > > in his poem; English 'facetious' comes from French 'facétieux'; just
More here of interest but low on time this morning... be back soon.
--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU
PrettyStuzz
<2531db2e-8818-44a9...@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 10, 11:15īŋŊpm, PrettyStuzz <leich...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > A, noir corset velu des mouches īŋŊclatantes
> > > > > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
> >
> > > > > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > > > > I, pourpres, sang crachīŋŊ, rire des līŋŊvres belles
> > > > > > > Dans la colīŋŊre ou les ivresses pīŋŊnitentes ;
> >
> > > > > > > U, cycles, vibrements divins des mers virides,
> > > > > > > Paix des pīŋŊtis semīŋŊs d'animaux, paix des rides
> > > > > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
> >
> > > > > > > O, suprīŋŊme Clairon plein de strideurs īŋŊtranges,
> > > > > > > Silences traversīŋŊs des Mondes et des Anges:
> > > > > > > - O, l'OmīŋŊga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
You're careless again. My statements are separate, there's no
contradiction, no paradox.
I'm not qualified to read anything except in English, and it only
matters to me what I think.
> > > > in his poem; English 'facetious' comes from French 'facīŋŊtieux'; just
Samuel Pepys!
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >>adamlynn <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
>
> > > > > > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > > > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > > > > > Dans la col re ou les ivresses p nitentes ;
>
> > > > > > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
>
> > > > > > > > - O, l'Om ga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
> > > > poem too easy for the reader. Now it's 'Their Eyes!', which makes
> > > > the
> > > > Angels a bit more important since it most obviously refers to them.
>
> > > I was applauding your exegesis there, not your translation.
>
> > > The original end makes me see Elizabeth Taylor in stockings.
>
> > > > I also changed L3 to "a jacket formed of hairy, shiny flies". Formed
> > > > is better than sewn, as it leaves open the possibility the flies are
> > > > still alive. (That reminded me of being swarmed by blackflies; OTOH,
> > > > it gave Maureen the image of houseflies crawling over a corpse.) And
> > > > the 'verdant' pastures of L10 are now 'peaceful pastures,' to get
> > > > the
> > > > second use of 'peace' in that line.
>
> > > > The revision process has been fun, as always but it'll soon be over.
> > > > This may be your last chance to get in any suggestions you may have.
>
> > > Moi? Je ne dis rien.
>
> > > I don't think anyone but a poet can 'translate' or transfer poetry.
>
> > > I don't think Rimbaud was a poet.
>
> > He wrote poetry but wasn't a poet?
>
> You're careless again. My statements are separate, there's no
> contradiction, no paradox.
Since your statement that Rimbaud was not a poet smacked of bullshit, I
asked you about it... no problem if you can't explain yourself.
> I'm not qualified to read anything except in English, and it only
> matters to me what I think.
Sure...
> > You would have to agree that
> > > anti-poetry is a kind of poetry to call him a poet. A lot of people
> > > say
> > > atheism is a form of religion. People say science is a form of
> > > religion.
> > > People say really stupid things.
>
> > > > > > I've read several different translations over the years, and I'd
> > > > > > say
> > > > > > yours is as good and in some cases better than those already out
> > > > > > there.
>
> > > > > 'as good as...better than'
>
> > > > When I post a final final (probably on my blog in March), I will
> > > > send
> > > > Will a proofed version of his sentence and ask him to post it there
> > > > as
> > > > a comment. Then I can quote him in jacket blurbs and the like.
>
> > > George? You do realize that he'll use those sentences and say he's
> > > been
> > > asked to be quoted on book jackets, internationally?
>
> > > > > > I wonder if Stuart will clarify how this corresponds or differs
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > his wish for "words to be in colors" or however he phrased it.
>
> > > > > 'corresponds to or differs from'
>
> > > > > In the future, don't use quotation marks with someone's name or
> > > > > work if
> > > > > you're not certain.
>
> > > > > I don't see any connection; maybe what I wrote was a trigger.
>
> > > > It was an event in a chain, causal or not. Your comment inspired
> > > > Will
> > > > to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem,
> > > > and
> > > > get the idea of translating it.
>
> > > Will was 'inspired'? Do you know what 'inspired' means? DO you know
> > > who
> > > 'Will' is?
>
> > > > > English 'facetious' has all the vowels in their alphabetical
> > > > > sequence
> > > > > ('facetiously' when you treat 'y' as a vowel); Rimbaud deranges
> > > > > the 'o'
> > > > > in his poem; English 'facetious' comes from French 'fac tieux';
> > > > > just
> > > > > saying.
>
> > > > 'Abstemious' is another, and it even starts with 'a'.
>
> > > !!!
>
> > > It's not a French word; I don't think there's a French cognate.
>
> > > But if the Rimbaud piece came from his London debauches, you may have
> > > found a key.
>
> > > Talk to someone, you might be able to get published in Notes &
> > > Queries.
>
> > > The Star or Globe & Mail would probably give you a few inches, but
> > > they
> > > lack the prestige such an article deserves. TLS used to be a valuable
> > > store for such kernels.
>
> > > Yes, I'm quite serious.
>
> > > > > > Looking on the net, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of essays
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > "Vowels" by Rimbaud... this one was interesting, which, more
> > > > > > than
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > the poemm deals with when Rimbaud & Verlaine lived in England
> > > > > > for a
> > > > > > spell:
>
> > > > > "Looking on the net" is a dangling modifier.
>
> > > > > >http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/verlai..
> > > > > >.
> > > > > > mbaud-poets-from-hell-525605.html
>
> > > > > > "...Rimbaud was 'delighted and astonished' by London. Verlaine
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > overwhelmed by the 'incessant railways on splendid cast-iron
> > > > > > bridges'
> > > > > > and the 'brutal, loud-mouthed people in the streets', but
> > > > > > inspired by
> > > > > > the 'interminable docks'. The city was, he wrote, 'prudish, but
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > every vice on offer', and, 'permanently sozzled, despite
> > > > > > ridiculous
> > > > > > bills on drunkenness'. The two poets were often sozzled, too: on
> > > > > > ale,
> > > > > > gin and absinthe. Rimbaud's extraordinary sonnet "Voyelles"
> > > > > > (Vowels),
> > > > > > which gained an instant cult following, was clearly inspired by
> > > > > > his
> > > > > > experiments with 'the Green Fairy'..."
>
> > > > > Ain't it ironic that absinthe became legal in the US at the same
> > > > > time
> > > > > you quit drinking?
>
> > More here of interest but low on time this morning... be back soon.
>
> Samuel Pepys!
I'll have to look that up.
PrettyStuzz
"Will Dockery" <shado...@knology.net> wrote:
My 'statement' was about what I think, it wasn't so much about Rimbaud.
You're starting to spoil a perfectly good and well-intentioned thread
that George began. I used to think you were better than that.
>
> > I'm not qualified to read anything except in English, and it only
> > matters to me what I think.
>
> Sure...
You're a hopeless fuckwit if you think I wrote that I don't care what
others think. It matters to me that I don't consider Rimbaud to be a
poet. I have a sense of literature and poetry. You have one, others have
theirs. Rimbaud doesn't fit mine. I don't think someone else is wrong or
deluded for their thinking their way about poetry and poets. About
poetry, it shouldn't matter to others what I think. Why would it be
anyone else's business? This isn't a think tank, no one pays me.
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>adamlynn <adaml...@live.com> wrote:
I don't see it that way, but you've a right to your opinion.
> > > I'm not qualified to read anything except in English, and it only
> > > matters to me what I think.
>
> > Sure...
>
> It matters to me that I don't consider Rimbaud to be a
> poet. I have a sense of literature and poetry. You have one, others have
> theirs. Rimbaud doesn't fit mine. I don't think someone else is wrong or
> deluded for their thinking their way about poetry and poets. About
> poetry, it shouldn't matter to others what I think. Why would it be
> anyone else's business? This isn't a think tank, no one pays me.
Well, like I wrote... sure...
Will Dockery
>PrettyStuzz <leich...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
>
> > > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > > Dans la colīŋŊre ou les ivresses pīŋŊnitentes ;
>
> > > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
>
> > > > > - O, l'OmīŋŊga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
Sure...
> > > I wonder if Stuart will clarify how this corresponds or differs with
> > > his wish for "words to be in colors" or however he phrased it.
>
> > 'corresponds to or differs from'
>
> > In the future, don't use quotation marks with someone's name or work if
> > you're not certain.
>
> > I don't see any connection; maybe what I wrote was a trigger.
>
> It was an event in a chain, causal or not. Your comment inspired Will
> to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem, and
> get the idea of translating it.
Yes, Stuart gets the credit for the start of another thread about the poetry
of Rimbaud... heh.
--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU
> > English 'facetious' has all the vowels in their alphabetical sequence
> > ('facetiously' when you treat 'y' as a vowel); Rimbaud deranges the 'o'
> > in his poem; English 'facetious' comes from French 'facīŋŊtieux'; just
George Dance
Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: you vowels,
Some day I'll tell the tale of where your mystery lies:
Black A, a jacket formed of hairy, shiny flies
That buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels;
White E, the white of kings, of moon-washed fogs and tents,
of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the curl of lips
In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence;
Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
Or peaceful pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
Blue O, great Trumpet blaring strange and piercing cries
Through Silences where Worlds and Angels pass crosswise;
Omega, O, the violet brilliance of Their Eyes!
PrettyStuzz
"Will Dockery" <shado...@knology.net> wrote:
> > It was an event in a chain, causal or not. Your comment inspired Will
> > to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem, and
> > get the idea of translating it.
>
> Yes, Stuart gets the credit for the start of another thread about the poetry
> of Rimbaud... heh.
It's impossible to tell when George is being straight-up. More than one
reader has questioned his posting intentions; several have said he lies.
If those posters are lying, then all we can do is rely on our own sense
of what's true or false. I don't trust yours. I don't trust mine, either.
You're liable to piss off someone who's a bigger vindictive fuck than
you are and try to have your Google privileges revoked. First, Google
will warn you. We'll probably notice if you've been warned.
Will Dockery
> > > to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem, and
> > > get the idea of translating it.
>
> > Yes, Stuart gets the credit for the start of another thread about the
> > poetry
> > of Rimbaud... heh.
>
> It's impossible to tell when George is being straight-up. More than one
> reader has questioned his posting intentions; several have said he lies.
> If those posters are lying, then all we can do is rely on our own sense
> of what's true or false. I don't trust yours. I don't trust mine, either.
>
> You're liable to piss off someone who's a bigger vindictive fuck
I object to that... post proof or s.t.f.u... heh.
> you are and try to have your Google privileges revoked. First, Google
> will warn you. We'll probably notice if you've been warned.
Won't Google have to have a good reason for something like that, which they
don't, though, Stuart?
And why are you acting so angry... are you the piss that I fucked off?
PrettyStuzz
"Will Dockery" <shado...@knology.net> wrote:
> PrettyStuzz <leich...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > "Will Dockery" wrote:
> >
> > > > It was an event in a chain, causal or not. Your comment inspired Will
> > > > to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem, and
> > > > get the idea of translating it.
> >
> > > Yes, Stuart gets the credit for the start of another thread about the
> > > poetry
> > > of Rimbaud... heh.
> >
> > It's impossible to tell when George is being straight-up. More than one
> > reader has questioned his posting intentions; several have said he lies.
> > If those posters are lying, then all we can do is rely on our own sense
> > of what's true or false. I don't trust yours. I don't trust mine, either.
> >
> > You're liable to piss off someone who's a bigger vindictive fuck
>
> I object to that... post proof or s.t.f.u... heh.
>
> > you are and try to have your Google privileges revoked. First, Google
> > will warn you. We'll probably notice if you've been warned.
>
> Won't Google have to have a good reason for something like that, which they
> don't, though, Stuart?
I don't know any more than the process and the chain of distribution.
There's a DMCA process and another process for harassment.
>
> And why are you acting so angry... are you the piss that I fucked off?
dude!
George Dance
> Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,
>
> > > > > > > > Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeurs des vapeurs et des tentes,
> > > > > > > > Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles;
> > > > > > > > Dans la col re ou les ivresses p nitentes ;
>
> > > > > > > > Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux;
>
> > > > > > > > - O, l'Om ga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux !
There's no contradiction, but there may be a paradox; an apparent
contradiction that has to be resolved. The conventional view, at least
here on AAPC, is that there's no distinction, by definitions; either
'poet' is defined as 'writer of poems' (as with Will, hence his
challenge); or 'poem' is defined as anything that looks like a poem
(even something as non-poemish as ~chit~, ~Waterfall~, or ~Look at Me!
I'm James Joyce!~) and was written by a "real poet" (such as the
authors of the above).
I don't accept either one; I certainly think I've written poetry, but
I don't call myself a poet. Three years ago, I'd point that out
whenever a 'real poet' of usenet challenged me, explaining that I
called myself a writer, not a poet. (Ironically, several of the 'real
poets' of those days are calling themselves 'writers' nowadays.)
But I suspect our definitions are different from each other as well.
> I'm not qualified to read anything except in English, and it only
> matters to me what I think.
>
Commendable modesty; but, if it spread, that could mean the death of
internet discussion -- so much of that being motivated by the
participants' beliefs that their every opinion is of compelling
interest to the world.
But, hey, I'm interested in your take on things. I don't intend to
follow in your footsteps, but I can learn things from you. The only
clue to what you do think lies in your word 'anti-poetry,' and that's
worth talking about.
> > You would have to agree that
> > > anti-poetry is a kind of poetry to call him a poet. A lot of people say
> > > atheism is a form of religion. People say science is a form of religion.
> > > People say really stupid things.
So what's anti-poetry; and to answer that, what's poetry? Well, all
the different definitions agree on is that poetry is writing written
in a distinct way, that has a distinct effect on the reader. I think
the effect is key; the poetic way of writing is just a matter of
conventions that won out because they were found to work to have that
type of effect.
The anti-poetic way of writing, then, would be a matter of flouting
those conventions.
In form (here and in the other earlier work of his I've translated),
Rimbaud is no anti-poet; he's writing in one of the most rigid poetic
forms in French, a Petrarchan sonnet written in Alexandrines. But in
content, it couldn't be more different from conventional poetry of the
time. It's nothing but a swirl of random images that on the surface
add up to nothing. (No different from the above three non-poems I
mentioned.)
The tension between form and content is what makes Rimbaud's
work interesting. Because in form it obviously is a poem, and a very
well-written one as well, the reader (this one, anyway) wants or has
to try to read it as a poem; to decode it to get the poetic experience
or insight. And a new academic discipline, interpretation of poetry,
is born. (I've been looking at some of the academic literature on
Vowels -- tremendously erudite, some of it quite plausible, but all of
it by professors far more learned in the various subjects than the 20-
year-old author of the sonnet could have been).
I haven't read Illuminations, and I'm not sure if I'd like them, as
there's no such tension: Rimbaud rejects the conventions of form there
as well, writing in pure prose. However, they've been grist for the
academics no less than these earlier works that I like so much.
A pessimist would say that that was the beginning of the end for
poetry, right there. Once academics discovered they could make a
living for themselves by decoding or interpreting anti-poetry as
poetry in fact, they had a vested interest in promoting it over
conventional poetry which (precisely because it stays inside the
conventions) doesn't need an interpreter or decoder in order to reach
its reader.
So anti-poetry soon became the norm: in content with symbolism
followed by surrealism, and then in form with the rise in the first
half of the 20th century, and the dominance in the second half, of
'free verse' or open form.
Long before 2000 anti-poetry was the new paradigm: "poetry" written
not to the reader, but to the interpreter or decoder. Which is perhaps
why Rimbaud is venerated so much, as a pioneer; even his behavior gets
copied on occasion. (The notorious example being Jim Morrison, whom
Dale Houstman so detested; but Houstman's own obnoxious posting
personality being another.)
>
> > > > > > I've read several different translations over the years, and I'd say
> > > > > > yours is as good and in some cases better than those already out
> > > > > > there.
>
> > > > > 'as good as...better than'
>
> > > > When I post a final final (probably on my blog in March), I will send
> > > > Will a proofed version of his sentence and ask him to post it there as
> > > > a comment. Then I can quote him in jacket blurbs and the like.
>
> > > George? You do realize that he'll use those sentences and say he's been
> > > asked to be quoted on book jackets, internationally?
>
> > > > > > I wonder if Stuart will clarify how this corresponds or differs with
> > > > > > his wish for "words to be in colors" or however he phrased it.
>
> > > > > 'corresponds to or differs from'
>
> > > > > In the future, don't use quotation marks with someone's name or work if
> > > > > you're not certain.
>
> > > > > I don't see any connection; maybe what I wrote was a trigger.
>
> > > > It was an event in a chain, causal or not. Your comment inspired Will
> > > > to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem, and
> > > > get the idea of translating it.
>
> > > Will was 'inspired'? Do you know what 'inspired' means? DO you know who
> > > 'Will' is?
>
> > > > > English 'facetious' has all the vowels in their alphabetical sequence
> > > > > ('facetiously' when you treat 'y' as a vowel); Rimbaud deranges the 'o'
> > > > > in his poem; English 'facetious' comes from French 'fac tieux'; just
George Dance
> In article <ced54$4b7497d8$d8baf79a$2...@KNOLOGY.NET>,
> "Will Dockery" <shadowvi...@knology.net> wrote:
>
> > > It was an event in a chain, causal or not. Your comment inspired Will
> > > to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem, and
> > > get the idea of translating it.
>
> > Yes, Stuart gets the credit for the start of another thread about the poetry
> > of Rimbaud... heh.
>
> It's impossible to tell when George is being straight-up. More than one
> reader has questioned his posting intentions; several have said he lies.
Now, that sounds like the way Gwyneth Box would write it. If someone's
accusing me of lying, I expect a name and a specific accusation;
otherwise I'm just going to dismiss it as smearing and innuendo (by
your sources, I mean, not by you; it sounds to me as if you're just
honestly reporting what you've read, being the messenger and all
that).
I am interested, though, in why you thought it necessary to emphasize
'more than one' with 'several'. Do you think the number of people
saying something makes a claim more plausible, more believable? I've
heard that on the group before: newbies being told, for example, that
(paraphrased) "if eight people are telling you your work is trash,
then you might just want to look at that."
> If those posters are lying, then all we can do is rely on our own sense
> of what's true or false. I don't trust yours. I don't trust mine, either.
>
But you trust opinions more if they're shared by more than one? As Ayn
Rand would've put it, that confuses the 'objective' with the
'collective'. I'd call it fallacy ad populum, which to me isn't just a
name from a textbook, but something I've seen plenty of real-world
examples of.
For example, in all the discussions I've had over the Mormon religion,
the vast number of those I was talking to had the same opinions of it?
Does that make their shared opinions more likely to be correct? It
might, if all those opinions were the result of independent
judgements; but if all those people were speaking with one voice, or
preaching from the same bible (as the Mormon missionaries with whom I
had those discussions were), then that wouldn't be the case.
The same consideration holds here. So, first we'd have to look at
whether the people saying these nasty things about me are in fact
preaching from the same bible, or following the same script, or
whatever your preferred metaphor.
Which puts us in the awkward position of having to name names.
Fortunately, there's a way around that; we can simply use the SP list
that I posted last year. I'd point out that no one has accused me of
lying, or of having a hidden agenda here, (or for that matter all the
other nasty names, from bad writer to moron to plagiarist to
pedophile), who is not on that list.
Then, to see if there's evidence of a script, we'd have to look at
whether they say the same things about others on the group as well.
I don't think I have to convince you that there are copious examples
in the archives of the people on the SP list doing just that.
PrettyStuzz
<defd4d1a-c2a5-4b1a...@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Either you can put 'poet' on the occupation line of your tax return, or
you can't.
Otherwise it's banter, useful and useless.
>
> I don't accept either one; I certainly think I've written poetry, but
> I don't call myself a poet. Three years ago, I'd point that out
> whenever a 'real poet' of usenet challenged me, explaining that I
> called myself a writer, not a poet. (Ironically, several of the 'real
> poets' of those days are calling themselves 'writers' nowadays.)
Is it fair for you to set up a straw man so you can point up an 'irony'
as a coup de grace? Never mind.
>
> But I suspect our definitions are different from each other as well.
I can love both dark and fair. My deepest bias is historical: Herrick
was the last true poet in English. I don't know about other cultures,
but Rimbaud makes Byron seem ancient. Today, I hear living poets,
themselves or interpreted by others. Dylan's a poet. Jim Morrison too.
Countless others are. Some people thrive on what can only be
tautological distinctions - this is poetry, therefore this is a poem;
this is not poetry, therefore this is not a poem.
Not bad at all, George.
I'd start the 'decoder' clock at Kubla Khan, but I won't call it
anti-poetry or Coleridge an anti-poet, not even if they tied wild horses
to my testicles.
In English poetry you have to look at Sidney's drawing of the first
circle. In brief, he argued that only the good man (educated and morally
fit) could produce good letters, specifically good poetry. It wasn't
until Byron 'flouted' the 'vir bonus' mythos that English literature had
an anti-hero - as poet, narrator, and character combined; was Byron the
first in the Western canon? I don't know. Maybe. Rousseau's Confessions
are slightly earlier, but we don't call that poetry. (I wrote a nice
35-page thesis about Byron and the 'mythos' in 1968.)
You know in Othello, when Iago concludes his opening monologue (not his
soliloquy) to Roderigo, and he says stuff like he'll wear his heart on
his sleeve for daws to peck at, and concludes with "I am not what I am"?
You have to imagine that the audience shrieked and moved back a few
steps in horror. It was anathema but in the flesh. You know, the Word
made flesh, and all that. Iago said - uttered - the contrary of what
YHVH said to Moses when Moses asked who are you. I guess today people
use the term Antichrist. But Shakespeare - oh, never mind. You can
figure out what I mean by 'anti-poetry'. It's a kind of private term
that informs my own poetix.
PrettyStuzz
<56eb40e0-edc2-447a...@c28g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 7:12�pm, PrettyStuzz <leich...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > In article <ced54$4b7497d8$d8baf79a$2...@KNOLOGY.NET>,
> > �"Will Dockery" <shadowvi...@knology.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > It was an event in a chain, causal or not. Your comment inspired Will
> > > > to mention "Vowels," which got me to go back and reread the poem, and
> > > > get the idea of translating it.
> >
> > > Yes, Stuart gets the credit for the start of another thread about the
> > > poetry
> > > of Rimbaud... heh.
> >
> > It's impossible to tell when George is being straight-up. More than one
> > reader has questioned his posting intentions; several have said he lies.
>
> Now, that sounds like the way Gwyneth Box would write it.
Ain't I something, now, George!
> If someone's
> accusing me of lying, I expect a name and a specific accusation;
> otherwise I'm just going to dismiss it as smearing and innuendo (by
> your sources, I mean, not by you; it sounds to me as if you're just
> honestly reporting what you've read, being the messenger and all
> that).
Of course.
But you don't dismiss shit George. You tie it up, nail it down, and kick
it with those shoes Lotte Lenya wore in From Russia With Love.
>
> I am interested, though, in why you thought it necessary to emphasize
> 'more than one' with 'several'. Do you think the number of people
> saying something makes a claim more plausible, more believable? I've
> heard that on the group before: newbies being told, for example, that
> (paraphrased) "if eight people are telling you your work is trash,
> then you might just want to look at that."
George, I think you showed up at aapc and rap at a bad time when you
first showed up.
It's a sad problem. People who write poetry are putting their dicks on
the chopping block, their tits in the ringer. Most poets who come here
want to get feedback on their persons, not on their poetix, and some
want both. What they get almost without exception is nothing or comments
that play to the crowd. It's not fair, but it is just. No?
>
> > If those posters are lying, then all we can do is rely on our own sense
> > of what's true or false. I don't trust yours. I don't trust mine, either.
> >
>
> But you trust opinions more if they're shared by more than one? As Ayn
> Rand would've put it, that confuses the 'objective' with the
> 'collective'. I'd call it fallacy ad populum, which to me isn't just a
> name from a textbook, but something I've seen plenty of real-world
> examples of.
Everyone posts self-serving words here. Some readers like certain
posters more than they like others. They'll cut off their own noses.
God! Am I boring!
>
> For example, in all the discussions I've had over the Mormon religion,
> the vast number of those I was talking to had the same opinions of it?
> Does that make their shared opinions more likely to be correct? It
> might, if all those opinions were the result of independent
> judgements; but if all those people were speaking with one voice, or
> preaching from the same bible (as the Mormon missionaries with whom I
> had those discussions were), then that wouldn't be the case.
I have The Book of Mormon, inscribed by the dear friend who gave it to
me. I love talking with missionaries who knock on my door. They're
nothing like insurance salespeople, who are more evangelical and also
greedy and avaricious.
>
> The same consideration holds here. So, first we'd have to look at
> whether the people saying these nasty things about me are in fact
> preaching from the same bible, or following the same script, or
> whatever your preferred metaphor.
I objected to Will's deranged use of quotation marks. He's a fuckn
menace.
>
> Which puts us in the awkward position of having to name names.
> Fortunately, there's a way around that; we can simply use the SP list
> that I posted last year. I'd point out that no one has accused me of
> lying, or of having a hidden agenda here, (or for that matter all the
> other nasty names, from bad writer to moron to plagiarist to
> pedophile), who is not on that list.
Mostly your being tautological. Fine. It's your list.
That "hidden agenda" item doesn't get to sneak by. No one seems to think
you don't have a side agenda, for all to see, like in this reply you've
been making. Sometimes that side agenda takes front and center in your
posts. Fine. But when you re-arrange the lexicon and refer to your
part-time agenda here as a "hidden agenda" - presumably attributed to
you by 'others' (on the list), you're relying on a straw man.
"I and Velma ain't dumb".
>
> Then, to see if there's evidence of a script, we'd have to look at
> whether they say the same things about others on the group as well.
> I don't think I have to convince you that there are copious examples
> in the archives of the people on the SP list doing just that.
George, the cabalists used to use IRC to plot things. PJR posted ROT-13.
Are you saying that posters don't have a God-given right to be immature?
Me, I'm never the same person when I wake up in the morning as I was
when I went to sleep. Except for the poetry, the archives are invalid.
Will Dockery
>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Vowels
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
> > > > > > > > > > > Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> > > > > > > > > > > Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> > > > > > > > > > > Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> > > > > > > > > > > of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> > > > > > > > > > > Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> > > > > > > > > > > In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> > > > > > > > > > > Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> > > > > > > > > > > Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing
> > > > > > > > > > > cries
> > > > > > > > > > > Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> > > > > > > > > > > Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
>
> > > > > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > > > > > Arthur Rimbaud
> > > > > > > > > > > translated by George Dance
<snipped for brevity>
> I don't think Rimbaud was a poet.
Yes... I know a worthless opinion when I see one.
ggamble
On 13-Feb-2010, Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes... I know a worthless opinion when I see one.
You are the epitome of uninformed.
Your opinions are meaningless.
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>>PrettyStuzz <leich...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Vowels
>
> > > > > > > Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
> > > > > > > Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> > > > > > > Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> > > > > > > Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
>
> > > > > > > White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> > > > > > > of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> > > > > > > Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> > > > > > > In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
>
> > > > > > > Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> > > > > > > Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> > > > > > > Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
>
> > > > > > > Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing cries
> > > > > > > Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> > > > > > > Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
>
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Arthur Rimbaud
> > > > > > > translated by George Dance
<snipped for brevity>
>>> I don't think Rimbaud was a poet.
>
> > Yes... I know a worthless opinion when I see one.
>
> You are the epitome <slap>
So do you think Rimbaud was a poet, Gary?
=z=
>
> - Show quoted text -
even though the header reads what it does i do believe we all come
here to "hang out", comment once in awhile but still come here to be
with us all, display our words for better or worse, and then show our
ass once or twice...but we all have to admit that we like
here....>group hug<.....heh----->
matt13
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> even though the header reads what it does i do believe we all come
> here to "hang out", comment once in awhile but still come here to be
> with us all, display our words for better or worse, and then show our
> ass once or twice...but we all have to admit that we like
> here....>group hug<.....heh----->
"and then there you go."
=z=
PrettyStuzz
<fdd45aa6-2561-46e9...@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
The part you snipped had value, like the parts that followed, which you
didn't acknowledge as being snipped. But I don't have to defend
anything, ever, while you post only zorroisms and defenses, mostly in
the form of vindictive and very childish na-na-na-na-na's.
It would be much easier for me or anyone who reads here to prove that
you're a vindictive and ignorant fuck than it would be for you to prove
that Rimbaud is a poet.
Anyway, I only said I don't think he's a poet, the emphasis being on
what I think and my sense of poetix, not on Rimbaud's writing.
I have no opinion on that stuff below.
Will Dockery
Just as the parts you snipped of mine had "value"... see how Usenet
works, Stuart?
Not that you're not entitled to an opinion that Rimbaud wasn't a
poet... or course.
PrettyStuzz
<685d8960-5673-42d5...@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Will Dockery <will.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
What are you talking about? I kept your posted reply intact, I snipped
nothing.
>
> Not that you're not entitled to an opinion that Rimbaud wasn't a
> poet... or course.
It's not for you to say, either way, though, Will. You haven't earned
any credibility on Usenet. Presence isn't the same as credibility.
As usual but not always, I snip your linkies at the bottom. Sometimes
the reply default snips below the double hyphens.
>
> --
Will Dockery
>Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 12:12 am, PrettyStuzz wrote:
> >>George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >>> Vowels
>
> >>> Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: vowels,
> >>> Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> >>> Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> >>> Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
>
> >>> White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> >>> of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> >>> Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> >>> In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
>
> >>> Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> >>> Or verdant pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> >>> Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
>
> >>> Blue O, great Trumpet filled with strange and piercing cries
> >>> Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> >>> Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
>
> >>> ---
> >>> Arthur Rimbaud
> >>> translated by George Dance
>
<snip>
> > Not that you're not entitled to an opinion that Rimbaud wasn't a poet... or course.
>
> It's not for you to say
Or you, actually, but sure it is for me to say:
Of course Rimbaud was a poet, nothing either of us post on Usenet can
change that.
George Dance
snip
>
> ---
> Arthur Rimbaud
> translated by George Dance
Speaking of sonnets: I've made two revisions to this translation this
month. In L7, I've translated Rimbaud's 'pourpres' ('purples') as
'magenta'; it was untranslated previously. In L14, I've changed 'Their
Eyes' to 'Those Eyes', to more closely match both the consonance and
the ambiguity of Rimbaud's 'Ses Yeux' (his/her/its/their eyes).
Which makes the final:
Vowels
Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: you vowels,
Some day I'll tell the tale of where your mystery lies:
Black A, a jacket formed of hairy, shiny flies
That buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels;
White E, the white of kings, of moon-washed fogs and tents,
of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
Red I, magenta, spat-up blood, the curl of lips
In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence;
Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
Or peaceful pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
Blue O, great Trumpet blaring strange and piercing cries
Through Silences where Worlds and Angels pass crosswise;
Omega, O, the violet brilliance of Those Eyes!
---
Arthur Rimbaud
(translated by George Dance)
Will Dockery
>
> Vowels
>
> Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
>
> White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
> Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
>
> Through silences where worlds and angels pass crosswise;
> Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
> ---
> Arthur Rimbaud
> translated by George Dance
Will Dockery
Will Dockery
>
> I only said I don't think he's a poet, the emphasis being on
> what I think and my sense of poetix, not on Rimbaud's writing.
George Dance
One of the Penny Blog contributors, Obsidian Eagle, calls himself an 'antipoet' and his work 'antipoetry,' for similar reasons.
George Dance
IMO, this is one of the ultimate magic poems: a series of chants to summon the Goddess (who actually appears at the end).
Vowels
Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: you vowels,
Some day I'll tell the tale of where your mystery lies:
Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels;
White E, the white of kings, of moon-washed fogs and tents,
Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas,
Or peaceful pastures flecked with beasts – furrows of peace
Blue O, great Trumpet blaring strange and piercing cries
Through Silences where Worlds and Angels pass crosswise;
Omega, O, the violet brilliance of Those Eyes!
translated by George J. Dance, 2010
from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
Anyone who wants to compare it with the original poem in French can do so on Penny's Poetry Blog:
http://gdancesbetty.blogspot.ca/2010/03/vowels-voyelles-arthur-rimbaud.html
Will Dockery
Richard Oakley
Then again, opinions are like assholes...
Fierce winds blow after the storm, the boats
are leaning, and the men, are peeing at the dock.
We are weary, and we sigh with thoughts piling
heavy, like the waves of the sea, we blister
underneath the sun that never sets till our skin
boils off, and our fins are lopped off and thrown
back to the passing waves.
r.
George Dance
>
> Fierce winds blow after the storm, the boats
> are leaning, and the men, are peeing at the dock.
> We are weary, and we sigh with thoughts piling
> heavy, like the waves of the sea, we blister
> underneath the sun that never sets till our skin
> boils off, and our fins are lopped off and thrown
> back to the passing waves.
>
> r.
Richard Oakley
r.
George Dance
Will Dockery
Will Dockery
friend.
stephanpi...@gmail.com
Paul Verlaine , 2016. Verlaine's Rimbaud [trans. Dennis J. Carlile with notes & commentary[ (Xlibris Corporation), 1-130
I have known Dennis for some time (he speaks both French and English), and his delicious translations are not to be overlooked, George. Rimbaud has been 'brother' for decades.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
STEPHAN PICKERING / חפץ ח"ם בן אברהם
Torah אלילה Yehu'di Apikores / Philologia Kabbalistica Speculativa Researcher
לחיות זמן רב ולשגשג...לעולם לא עוד
THE KABBALAH FRACTALS PROJECT
Will Dockery
Will Dockery
Wonder whatever happened to Stuart?
Another one who just stopped posting one day, never to return.
Will Dockery
Will Dockery
Will Dockery
news:8e8fd291-3bcd-4621...@googlegroups.com...
George J. Dance
NancyGene
Will Dockery
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/u1Jbl3yqLrI/P0D24cMed7kJ
NancyGene
Will Dockery
volume is one of them, I will check when I return to the office.
:)
George J. Dance
> That site of Carlile's
> is old
Of course the page is old. It's a preview of poems from a book that was published in 2000, ffs.
> and the links are dead.
> He may even be dead. His book came out 18 years ago and no one noticed.
But there's no substitute for reading some of the poems themselves:
http://roadside6.tripod.com/carlile.htm
Chafetz Chayim ha'Yehu'di
> Did you buy his book? Did anyone?
STEPHAN PICKERING / חפץ ח"ם בן אברהם
Torah אלילה Yehu'di Apikores / Philologia Kabbalistica Speculativa Researcher
לחיות זמן רב ולשגשג...לעולם לא עוד
THE KABBALAH FRACTALS PROJECT
IN PROGRESS: Shabtai Zisel ben Avraham v'Rachel Riva:
davening in the musematic dark
Chafetz Chayim ha'Yehu'di
STEPHAN PICKERING / חפץ ח"ם בן אברהם
Torah אלילה Yehu'di Apikores / Philologia Kabbalistica Speculativa Researcher
לחיות זמן רב ולשגשג...לעולם לא עוד
THE KABBALAH FRACTALS PROJECT
General Zod
Michael Pendragon
Remember the time you attended some conference with Elie Wiesel? There were 20,000 people there and you heard that Elie was among them.
Will Dockery
roac...@gmail.com
Chafetz Chayim ha'Yehu'di
It was 7 May 1996, and on my wall I have the signed poster for his talk in Santa Cruz he gave to me, and his 18 February 1983 letter he wrote to me about Shabtai Zisel/'Bob Dylan''s apostasy.
Try again. You lose.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chafetz Chayim ha'Yehu'di
> Did you buy his book? Did anyone?
Paul Verlaine , 2016. Verlaine's Rimbaud [trans. Dennis J. Carlile with notes & commentary] (Xlibris Corporation), 1-130
Will Dockery
General Zod
> Vowels
>
> Some day I'll tell the world just where your mystery lies:
> Black A, a jacket woven from the shining flies
> Which buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels.
>
> White E, the white of kings, the white of fogs and tents,
> of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> Red I, the shade of spat-up blood, the smile of lips
> In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence.
>
> Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
>
> Omega, O, the violet brilliance of those eyes!
>
> ---
> Arthur Rimbaud
> translated by George Dance
Mighty good read as rthe morning beckons........
As the mighty blue river rolls past me......
George J. Dance
> On Feb 11, 8:03 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > Vowels
> >
>
> snip
>
>
> Vowels
>
> Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: you vowels,
> Some day I'll tell the tale of where your mystery lies:
> Black A, a jacket formed of hairy, shiny flies
> That buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels;
>
> White E, the white of kings, of moon-washed fogs and tents,
> In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence;
> Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
>
> Omega, O, the violet brilliance of Those Eyes!
>
> ---
> Arthur Rimbaud
> (translated by George Dance)
Going through the thread, I found the final version; so, considering most of the threads have an earlier draft, I thought I'd make this one a bit more prominent.
Coco DeSockmonkey
General Zod
>
> > Vowels
> >
> > Black A, white E, red I, green U, blue O: you vowels,
> > Some day I'll tell the tale of where your mystery lies:
> > Black A, a jacket formed of hairy, shiny flies
> > That buzz among harsh stinks in the abyss's bowels;
> >
> > White E, the white of kings, of moon-washed fogs and tents,
> > of fields of shivering chervil, glaciers' gleaming tips;
> > Red I, magenta, spat-up blood, the curl of lips
> > In laughter, anger, or besotted penitence;
> >
> > Green U, vibrating waves in viridescent seas
> > Or peaceful pastures flecked with beasts -- furrows of peace
> > Imprinted on our brows as if by alchemies;
> >
> > Blue O, great Trumpet blaring strange and piercing cries
> > Through Silences where Worlds and Angels pass crosswise;
> > Omega, O, the violet brilliance of Those Eyes!
> >
> > ---
> > Arthur Rimbaud
> > (translated by George Dance)
>
> Going through the thread, I found the final version; so, considering most of the threads have an earlier draft, I thought I'd make this one a bit more prominent.
Will Dockery
news:a2348fd2-5a00-4aeb...@googlegroups.com...
Peter J Ross
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 6:40:00 PM UTC, George J. Dance wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 11:02:10 PM UTC-5, Chafetz Chayim
>> ha'Yehu'di wrote:
>> > On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 10:58:31 AM UTC-7, George J.
>> > Dance wrote:
>> > > Here's the final version of "Vowels," as printed on The Penny
>> > > Blog. (There's at least one word change from the last version
>> > > Will posted.)
>> > >
>> > > IMO, this is one of the ultimate magic poems: a series of
>> > > chants to summon the Goddess (who actually appears at the end).
>> > > Anyone who wants to compare it with the original poem in French
>> > > can do so on Penny's Poetry Blog:
>> > >
>> > Arthur Rimbaud, 2000. Rimbaud: the works. A season in hell; Poems
>> > & prose; Illuminations [trans./notes/commentary Dennis J.
>> > Carlile, Alexia Montibon illustrations] (Xlibris Corporation),
>> > 1-443
>> >
>> > Paul Verlaine , 2016. Verlaine's Rimbaud [trans. Dennis J.
>> > Carlile with notes & commentary[ (Xlibris Corporation), 1-130
>> >
>> > I have known Dennis for some time (he speaks both French and
>> > English), and his delicious translations are not to be
>> > overlooked, George. Rimbaud has been 'brother' for decades.
>> >
>>
>> Toda, Stephan. I've read a lot of translations of Rimbaud on the
>> web, but I don't remember ever reading one by Carlile. I did a
>> search today, and was able to find 6 translations from /Rimbaud:
>> The works/ online at The Drunken Boat. They're now linked on the
>> wiki, but here's a direct link as well:
>> http://roadside6.tripod.com/carlile.htm
>
> Who has a Tripod website today? That site of Carlile's is old and
> the links are dead. He may even be dead. His book came out 18
> years ago and no one noticed.
is the absence of background MIDI music and animated GIFs.
The translation is crap, of course.
--
PJR :-)
τὸν οἰόμενον νόον ἔχειν ὁ νουθετέων ματαιοπονεῖ.
- Democritus
Peter J Ross
> The Verlaine volume also looks interesting.
Peter J Ross
hint of Rimbaud's once-shocking contrast between form and content, for
instance?
Peter J Ross
> I have 3-4 Rimbaud translations on my shelf, not sure if the Dennis Carlile
> volume is one of them, I will check when I return to the office.
imagining that he had an office?
Peter J Ross
> Either way, his translations seem right on target, very direct.
of French poetry and its translators?
Peter J Ross
> On Saturday, March 20, 2010 at 7:26:34 AM UTC-4, George J. Dance wrote:
>> On Feb 11, 8:03 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > Vowels
>> >
>>
>> snip
>> Arthur Rimbaud
>> (translated by ?, stolen by George Dance)
> Going through the thread, I found the final version; so, considering
> most of the threads have an earlier draft, I thought I'd make this
> one a bit more prominent.
necessary to make the evidence of your plagiarism "more prominent"?
Will Dockery
Peter J Ross
> Since when is a translation called plagiarism?
HTH!
General Zod
Will Dockery
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat, 20 Apr 2019 17:14:05 -0700 (PDT),
Will Dockery wrote:
>> Since when is a translation called plagiarism?
>When Dunce passes off somebody else's translation as his own work
Can you prove that, PJR?
General Zod
Peter J Ross
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 2:11:57 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat, 20 Apr 2019 17:14:05 -0700 (PDT),
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> > Since when is a translation called plagiarism?
>>
>> When Dunce passes off somebody else's translation as his own work.
>> HTH!
>
(b) No reader of AAPC believes that I ever lie.
Peter J Ross
Peter J Ross
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 2:11:57 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat, 20 Apr 2019 17:14:05 -0700 (PDT),
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> > Since when is a translation called plagiarism?
>>
>> When Dunce passes off somebody else's translation as his own work.
>> HTH!
>
Now look the long words up on Google, Plod.
George J. Dance
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 2:11:57 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> > In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat, 20 Apr 2019 17:14:05 -0700 (PDT),
> > Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> > > Since when is a translation called plagiarism?
> >
> > When Dunce passes off somebody else's translation as his own work.
> > HTH!
> >
>
michaelmalef...@gmail.com
Peter J Ross
> On Sunday, April 28, 2019 at 1:58:36 PM UTC-4, George J. Dance
> wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 7:47:15 PM UTC-4, General Zod wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 2:11:57 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross
>> > wrote:
>> > > In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat, 20 Apr 2019 17:14:05 -0700
>> > > (PDT), Will Dockery wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Since when is a translation called plagiarism?
>> > >
>> > > When Dunce passes off somebody else's translation as his own
>> > > work. HTH!
>> > >
>> >
>> > You seem to be lying about G.D
>>
>> Of course it's not true. Piggy Ross just likes to call people
>> plagiarists (and pedophiles, and racists), just like his current
>> imitator, Pig Pen.
being plagiarists or paedophiles unless the evidence is absolutely
conclusive. I even defended Dunce against the accusation of plagiarism
until the evidence against him was overwhelming.
> And, let's face it, calling everyone Pig names is sooooooooooo much
> more mature.
Piggy-Piggy John-John!
michaelmalef...@gmail.com
General Zod
In your opinion why are they crap Peter? ??
Remember Peter is the oddball who doesn't like either Black or Poe poetry....
So consider the source........
Peter J Ross
clumsy chopped-up prose instead of Rimbaud's deft verse.
I'm not a fan of Rimbaud, or of any other teenager who tries to shock
his elders as if nobody had ever tried that before, but at his best
Rimbaud was at least a competent versifier, unlike Dennis J Carlile.
> Remember Peter is the oddball who doesn't like either Black or Poe poetry....
> So consider the source........
What has a tedious book by James Michener got to do with anything?