praNAms
Hare Krishna
We all agree we need the instrument (karaNa) to know / realize Atman. bhagavatpAda too acknowledges it by saying for the Atma darshana karaNa is susamskruta mana. Shruti also says Upanishad parama siddhAnta that there is no duality whatsoever to be realized through mana!! So, I think there is no second opinion on this when it comes to prior requirement of suitable karaNa (instrument) to know the what is unknown. Now the question is what happens to this karaNa in general and mind in particular in the jnAni after realizing that he is ekamevAdviteeyaM ?? is it going to vanish in thin air like snake vanishes in thin air after realizing the true svarUpa of rope?? Is the jnAni would suddenly become a brain-dead person after realizing he is brahman?? I don’t think so. I don’t think it is appropriate to give the example of snake-rope or nacre-silver to decide the fate of mind. Shankara somewhere explains even after samyak jnana the regular activity of the speech, mana and body would continue as it is. So, like snake, silver these karaNa-s would not vanish, like barren woman’s son it is nor atyanta abhAva OTOH like foam, bubble, waves it would continue to appear even after realizing that it is water only and nothing but water. So, mrutpinda, survaNAbharaNa etc. would be more appropriate here. In kArika or somewhere else I have read karaNa would be realized as Atman only like realizing ornaments are nothing but gold. An iron ball in fire looks like fire is the example given here.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar
Bhaskar YR
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NONDUALITY Citations
·
“But when in
dreamless sleep that nescience which sets up the appearance of beings other
than the Self has ceased, there is no (apparent) entity separated from oneself
as another. Then with what could one see, smell or understand what? The One is
embraced by one’s own Self as intelligence (prajna), of the nature of
self-luminous light. One is then all serene, with one’s desires attained,
transparent as water, and all one on account of the absence of any second. For,
if a second thing is distinguished, it is distinguished through nescience, and
as that has now ceased, what is left is all one.
//… In the same way, my dear one, because they had no knowledge when they mingled with pure Being, all these creatures likewise, the tiger and so forth, have no knowledge of the fact when they have returned from pure Being. They are not aware, ‘I have returned from pure Being’. Chand. Bh. 6.9.1”
· In the same way, one who was ignorant of the Self and who is awakened from this ignorance by the Vedic text (sruti) sees nothing other than his own Self. The Teacher (guru), the texts and he himself as deluded individual soul have all disappeared. (Nais Siddhi 4.37)
· 'There is no plurality here' (Brhad. 4.4.19)
· 'He goes from death to death who sees the appearance of plurality here' (Brhad 4.4.19)
· 'When, however, this soul makes in this one the smallest interval (difference), then, for him, there is fear' (Taitt. 2.7),
· 'Assuredly it is from a second (thing) that fear arises' (Brhad. 1.4.2)
· 'But there is no second thing' (Brhad. 4.3.24)
·
'For where there is an appearance of duality ...
(but when all has become his own Self, then what could a person see, and with
what?)' (Brhad. 2.4.14).
·
“How can distinction and non-distinction which
are contrary to each other be both possible? (We reply)—this is no fault,
because we have already established in several proper places, that according to
the maxim of “The Akasha and the Akasha of the pot”, both are possible. Besides
when the non-distinction (between the two) comes to be realized, by means of
such reference to non-distinction, as “That thou art”, then the nature of the
transmigratory existence of the Jiva-Self, and the creative activity of Brahma,
both vanish, on account of the removal of the entire set of transactions,
depending upon the notion of distinction which is but only a display of
false-ignorance, by true knowledge. BSbh II. i. 23]
· It is like this. As a man embraced by a woman he loves is oblivious to everything within or without, so this person embraced by the self (Atman) consisting of knowledge is oblivious to everything within or without (BU 4.3.21)
· "That it ·does not' see in that ·state is because, although seeing then It does not see; for the vision of the witness can never be lost, because it is immortal. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can see. BrU4.3.23
· The infinite is that where one does not see anything else, does not hear anything else, and does not understand anything else (CU 7.24.1)
· When, however, the Whole has become one’s very self (tman), then who is there for one to smell and by what means? Who is there for one to see and by what means? Who is there for one to hear and by what means? Who is there for one to see and by what means? Who is there for one to hear and by what means? Who is there for one to greet and by what means? Who is there for one to think and by what means. Who is there for one to perceive and by what means? (BU 2.4.14 & BU 4.5.15.)
NO PRAMATA, PRAMANA, PRAMEYA
· “In the recognition that there is no second thing, duality resolves” – jnate dvaitam no vidyate GK 1.18
·
Nanu: The pramanas must be invalid since they
since they give knowledge about objects that are unreal. Thus instruction
itself loses its point in that it cannot lead to truth or liberation.
Sankara’s reply: yes, it is quite true the pramanas are no less mithya than are
the objects they propose to reveal however they may “produce” something real no
less than death from a fancied snakebite. But, it is further argued, death is
as unreal as its cause and we are looking for a real effect out of an unreal
cause. BS bh 2.1.14
· "That it ·does not' see in that ·state is because, although seeing then It does not see; for the vision of the witness can never be lost, because it is immortal. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can see. BrU4.3.23
·
This mutual superimposition of the non-Self and
the Self (atmānatmanor itaretara adhyāsaṁ)
that is called avidya (avidya akhyam)
is the basis (puraskṛtya) on which
rest all the practical distinctions between means of knowledge and objects of
knowledge (sarve pramāṇa prameya)….
Samadhana: This is being explained.
(a)When there is no possibility of one who is devoid of identification with ‘I’
and ‘mine’ with regard to the body and sense organs, to become a cognizer, the
means of knowledge is inoperative for without (the participation of) the sense
organs the means of knowledge such as perception cannot operate. (b)The
function of the sense organs is not possible without a basis (body). (c)Nor
does one become engaged in activity without attributing the notion ‘I’ to the
body. When all these do not combine the Self that is unattached cannot become a
cognizer, there is no operation of the means of knowledge. Therefore, the means
of knowledge such as perception and the scriptures are meant only for those
that remain on the plane of avidya. (adhyasa bhasya)
· It is like this. As a man embraced by a woman he loves is oblivious to everything within or without, so this person embraced by the self (Atman) consisting of knowledge is oblivious to everything within or without (BU 4.3.21)
· "That it ·does not' see in that ·state is because, although seeing then It does not see; for the vision of the witness can never be lost, because it is immortal. But there is not that second thing separate from it which it can see. BrU4.3.23
· “'0 good looking one, in the beginning this was Existence alone, One only, without a second.” ChU 6.2.1
· Bhasya: “Vediintin: No. Since the instruction of oneness is given by saying 'Thou art That', there is no scope for the difference between the basis and the thing supported, and similarly, there can be no scope of any vision with regard to oneself, since it has been ascertained in the sixth chapter that Truth is one Existence, without a second; and also in Upani~adic texts like: , ... established in this unperceivable, bodiless ... Brahman' (Tai. II.7.1); 'His form does not exist within the range of vision' (Ka.11.3.9); 'Through what, 0 Maitreyi, should one know the knower?' (Br. 11.4.14). … The idea is that this (finitude) exists during the period of ignorance. It is like a thing seen in a dream, which exists only during that period, before waking.”
· “He goes from death to death who sees any difference here.” KaU 2.1.10
· And this name and form are merely imagined in the Absolute, like day and night in the sun. From the standpoint of the highest truth, they do not exist.”Tait Bh 2.8
· Neither from itself nor from something else is anything born. Neither an existent nor a non-existent … is born. GK 4.22
· “Through the mind alone (It) is to be realised. There is no difference whatsoever in It. He goes from death to death, who sees difference, as it were, in It.” Br 4.4.19
· This duality existing of the knower and the knowable is only the vibration of the citta. …GK4.72
· … But there is no duality there GK4.75
· Because the Imperishable is unmanifest, He is not accessible to words and cannot therefore be defined. He is unmanifest, not manifest to any of the organs of knowledge.” (BGbh 12 3)
· It is known to him to whom It is unknown; he does not know to whom it is known. It is unknown to those who know well, and known to those who do not know. Ke 2.3.
· But in a context where the unconditioned Self is one, there can neither be knowing by oneself not by another. Kebh2.4
· "For when there is duality, as it were, then one… knows another. But when everything has become the Self, then what should one …know and through what? "Br2.4.14
Hari Om Bhaskar ji.
Clay-pot and water-wave examples correspond to material causality. That is
superimposed in Brahman through ajnAna. The material causality of ajnAna
vis-a-vis-world is superimposed in Brahman.
The non-difference of world with Brahman in the view of jnAnI is similar to
non-difference of mirage-water with desert. One sees the mirage-water,
understands it to be desert appearing illusorily as water and does not go
there to quench one's thirst. JnAnI sees the world, understands it to be
Brahman appearing illusorily as world and is unaffected.
Clay-pot or water-wave indicate causality to Brahman whereas mirage-water
depicts the ultimate.
तदिति सर्वनाम, सर्वं च ब्रह्म, तस्य नाम तदिति, तद्भावः तत्त्वम् ,
ब्रह्मणो याथात्म्यम् । तत् द्रष्टुं शीलं येषां ते तत्त्वदर्शिनः, तैः
तत्त्वदर्शिभिः ।
त्वमपि तत्त्वदर्शिनां दृष्टिमाश्रित्य शोकं मोहं च हित्वा शीतोष्णादीनि
नियतानियतरूपाणि द्वन्द्वानि ‘विकारोऽयमसन्नेव मरीचिजलवन्मिथ्यावभासते’
इति मनसि निश्चित्य तितिक्षस्व इत्यभिप्रायः ॥
१६ ॥
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praNAms Sri Akhilesh Ayyar prabhuji
Hare Krishna
I’ll just note in this discussion that as far as Ramana Maharshi’s views — or rather my interpretation of them — the mind is ‘gone’ in the sense that it never existed.
The whole egoic point of view is what sees both ignorance and the removal of ignorance, the mind ‘before’ the search and ‘after’ it. Asking whether the jnani’s mind continues after jnana is itself based in the wrong point of view; the question is founded on wrong assumptions. That is the point.
Ø It is the mananaM part in vedAnta jignAsa and we are dealing with this issue where there is vyavahAra called shravaNa, manana & nidhidhyAsana by a jnAtru. Where pramAtru, pramANa and prameya hold sway. In this sequence the question is quite appropriate to investigate. If you don’t agree, then whole of the shAstra vyavahAra would go for the toss. And in that absolute non-dual state even ramaNa’s teachings which we are holding as valid pramANa would become mute since there is absolute non-duality in that state. So, IMO it is always better to keep in mind the context in which we are discussing these issues.
praNAms Sri Sunil Bhattacharjya prabhuji
Hare Krishna
There you are. The Jivanmukta achieves the Manah-Shunya state,
and eventually gets liberated when he or she leaves the physical and the Sukshma bodies.
Ø The very liberation means realizing that ashareeratvaM of Atman is svAbhAvika.
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Namaste Sunil Ji,
Reg << The Sthitaprajna or the Jivanmukta knows this very well and his or her manah is not affected by the illusionary Vyavaharika world,i.e., he or she is in the manah-shunya state >>,
When his or her manah is not affected by the illusionary Vyavaharika world, what **exists** and is experienced as such by him/her is just Atman/Brahman and not shunya/void. That represents sarvAtmabhAva. Atman being AnandasvarUpa, why not say << he or she is in the manah-Ananda state >>.
Regards
Chandramouli
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Namaste Rao Ji,
Reg << In BG the stitha prajna, kshetrajna, parabhakta, gunateeta - all these states seem to be different ways to express the state of one experiencing atmanubhava >>,
The moment we say ** one experiencing atmanubhava **, we are in triputi, accepting the distinction of Experiencer, Experienced and Experience. **aham** is considered as distinct from manas , and identifies itself with Manas. But as a result of jnAna, everything is cognized as nondistinct from *Ananda* which is AtmasvarUpa. Hence the experience of unbounded Ananda in this state.
** stitha prajna, kshetrajna, parabhakta, gunateeta ** can have, and do alternate between, two states at will, one termed NS (of Advaita Sidhanta, not to be confused with the NS of Yoga Shastra) and the other termed vyAvaharika. They do so effortlessly, because the change is due to jnAna. What is stated above , ** one experiencing atmanubhava **, is experiential Ananda, and is relevant in the latter category namely vyAvahArika state. In the former case, NS of Advaita Siddhanta, there is no triputi of ** Experiencer, Experienced and Experience**, there is no experience as such, and mind **becomes** or **assumes** the form of Atman itself.
This is my understanding.
Regards
ChandramouliNamaste Chandramouli ji
As Sankara says "mano buddhi ahankara chittani naaham", atmanubhava recognizes that it is beyond these (manah etc)
In BG the stitha prajna, kshetrajna, parabhakta, gunateeta - all these states seem to be different ways to express the state of one experiencing atmanubhava. Hari 🕉
Best Regards/ VTCS
________________________________
From: Advaita-l <advaita-...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org> on behalf of H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <adva...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2023, 2:50 pm
To: adva...@googlegroups.com <adva...@googlegroups.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <adva...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Cc: H S Chandramouli <hschand...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] RE: The fate of mind after realization
Namaste Sunil Ji,
Reg << *The Sthitaprajna or the Jivanmukta knows this very well and his
or her manah is not affected by the illusionary Vyavaharika world,i.e., he
or she is in the manah-shunya state >>,*
When his or her manah is not affected by the *illusionary Vyavaharika * world,
what **exists** and is experienced as such by him/her is just
Atman/Brahman and not shunya/void. That represents sarvAtmabhAva. Atman
being AnandasvarUpa, why not say << *he or she is in the manah-Ananda
state >>.*
Regards
Chandramouli
On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 10:53 PM sunil bhattacharjya <
skbhatt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear friends,
>
> There was a slip of pen. Please read the last sentence as follows:
>
> * The Sthitaprajna or the Jivanmukta knows this very well and his or her
> manah is not affected by the illusionary Vyavaharika world,i.e., he or she
> is in the manah-shunya state.*
>>> There you are. The Jivanmukta achieves the *Manah-Shunya state*, and
>>> eventually gets liberated when he or she leaves the physical and the
>>> Sukshma bodies.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents
>>> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 8:08 AM Akilesh Ayyar <
>>> aki...@siftingtothetruth.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I’ll just note in this discussion that as far as Ramana Maharshi’s views
>>> — or rather my interpretation of them — the mind is ‘gone’ in the sense
>>> that it never existed. The whole egoic point of view is what sees both
>>> ignorance and the removal of ignorance, the mind ‘before’ the search and
>>> ‘after’ it. Asking whether the jnani’s mind continues after jnana is itself
>>> based in the wrong point of view; the question is founded on wrong
>>> assumptions. That is the point.
>>>
>>> Akilesh Ayyar
>>>
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why not say << he or she is in the manah-Ananda state >>
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Dear Chandramouliji,
you posed the question:
why not say << *he or she is in the manah-Ananda state >>*
I regret to have to state that you have not understood the concept of
*Manah-Shunya* at all. When Jnana dawns in the yogi and he fully realizes
the impermanence of the Vyavahaika world, his Ahamkara reduces and finally
a stage comes when his interaction with the Vyavaharika world vanishes and
the activity of the Manah becomes defunct or nil.
Jai Shri Krishnajiki
skb
On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 1:20 AM H S Chandramouli <hschand...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Namaste Sunil Ji,
>
> Reg << *The Sthitaprajna or the Jivanmukta knows this very well and
> his or her manah is not affected by the illusionary Vyavaharika
> world,i.e., he or she is in the manah-shunya state >>,*
>
> When his or her manah is not affected by the *illusionary Vyavaharika * world,
> what **exists** and is experienced as such by him/her is just
> Atman/Brahman and not shunya/void. That represents sarvAtmabhAva. Atman
> being AnandasvarUpa, why not say << *he or she is in the manah-Ananda
> state >>.*
>
> Regards
>
> Chandramouli
>
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 10:53 PM sunil bhattacharjya <
> skbhatt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> There was a slip of pen. Please read the last sentence as follows:
>>
>> * The Sthitaprajna or the Jivanmukta knows this very well and his or her
>> manah is not affected by the illusionary Vyavaharika world,i.e., he or she
>> is in the manah-shunya state.*
>>>> There you are. The Jivanmukta achieves the *Manah-Shunya state*, and
>>>> eventually gets liberated when he or she leaves the physical and the
>>>> Sukshma bodies.
>>>>
>>>> My 2 cents
>>>> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 8:08 AM Akilesh Ayyar <
>>>> aki...@siftingtothetruth.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I’ll just note in this discussion that as far as Ramana Maharshi’s
>>>> views — or rather my interpretation of them — the mind is ‘gone’ in the
>>>> sense that it never existed. The whole egoic point of view is what sees
>>>> both ignorance and the removal of ignorance, the mind ‘before’ the search
>>>> and ‘after’ it. Asking whether the jnani’s mind continues after jnana is
>>>> itself based in the wrong point of view; the question is founded on wrong
>>>> assumptions. That is the point.
>>>>
>>>> Akilesh Ayyar
>>>> Spiritual guidance - http://www.siftingtothetruth.com/
>>>>
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Chandramouliji,
In Sankhya you will find what manah (मनः
<https://translate.glosbe.com/en-sa/mind>) is, and how it is a part of the
Sukshma sarrera and how Manah controls the Indriyas.
Best
skb
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praNAms
Hare Krishna
svarUpa shUnya ultimate state as samAdhi is bhAmati stand, as per Sri SSS’s observation with regard to this school they say : atra nidhidhyAsitavyaH eti dhyAnOpadeshaH drashtavyaH eti samAdheH tathAhuH tadeva dhyAnaM arthamAtra nirbhAsaM ‘svarUpa shUnyamiva’ samAdhiH eti. (bhAmati vyAkhyAna on br.man. bhAshya). No need to highlight here vyAkhyAnakAra directly imports here yOga sUtra of Patanjali to interpret vedAntic dhyAna and nidhidhyAsana.
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
Bhaskar YR
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On Behalf Of H S Chandramouli
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Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] RE: The fate of mind after realization
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Dear Sadanandaji - Namaste
You wrote as follows:
The question focuses on the Jnaani. Your statement appears to imply that
Jnaani after abiding in the knowledge will not have a mind or something
like that.
You also got me wrong. Chandramouliji contested the Manah-shunya state, by
saying that Instead of the yogi being Manah-Shunya he should have been
Manah-Ananda. My reply was to say that he was wrong.
With the background that the Buddhi has, the Ahamkara develops the
attachment/bonding/desire with the Vyavaharika world, and accordingly
reacts with the vyavaharika world, through the Manah (the atirindriya),
engaging the Jnanendriyas and the Karmendriyas (as needed), with the
Vyavaharika world.
Now, when the *Jnana* dawns in the Buddhi through *(i)* the grace of the
Guru, *(ii)* and / or through reading the scriptures like the Vedas and
the Upanishads or the Ramayana and the Mahabharata etc., *(III)* and
followed by the appropriate meditation, the Ahamkara/Ego decreases and
consequently the attachment for the Vyvaharika world also disappears. Once
the attachment for the Vyavaharika world vanishes there is no role left
for the Manah and that is the *Manah-Shunya state*.
Hope this is clear now.
Jai Shri Krishna
Sunil KB
On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 7:01 PM Kuntimaddi Sadananda <
kuntima...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sunilji - PraNAms
>
> Just for your information. Shree Chandramouliji is well-read person and I
> have learned a lot from him through his contributions to the Advaital list.
> You may not be familiar with his contributions.
>
> The question he posed based on your statement is correct. I also agree
> with his assessment.
>
>
> The question concerns not about the meaning of manah and that it is part
> of anthahkarana.
>
>
> The question focuses on the Jnaani. Your statement appears to imply that
> Jnaani after abiding in the knowledge will not have a mind or something
> like that.
>
> Question - Did Krishna have the mind to teach Arjuna or not?
>
> Our understanding is that Jnaani uses his body, mind and intellect for
> loka kalyanam - BMI will be there until praarabda gets exhausted. The Lord
> will maintain the BMI to insure that those who are seeking knowledge will
> have an opportunity to learn.
>
> After seeing your mail, thought I should respond.
>
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 11:16:15 PM GMT+5:30, sunil bhattacharjya
> via Advaita-l <adva...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>
> Mr. Chandramouli,
>
> It will nice if you please don't hesitate to tell me a bit about your
> background, as I am wondering why you are not being able to understand the
> very simple meaning of the sanskrit word *"Manah.* Understanding what is
> *Manah* is very crucial for understanding *Sankhya*, which was taught by
> the *Sage Kapila, an avatara of Lord Vishnu*. The *Manah* is a part of
> our *Subtle
> Body or Sukshma shareera*, and it is the* Mahah*, which makes us interact
> with the Vyavaharika world. That is why the concept of *Manah-shunya*
> >
>
> > .
> >
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Sunilji - PraNAmsJust for your information. Shree Chandramouliji is well-read person and I have learned a lot from him through his contributions to the Advaital list. You may not be familiar with his contributions.The question he posed based on your statement is correct. I also agree with his assessment.The question concerns not about the meaning of manah and that it is part of anthahkarana.The question focuses on the Jnaani. Your statement appears to imply that Jnaani after abiding in the knowledge will not have a mind or something like that.Question - Did Krishna have the mind to teach Arjuna or not?Our understanding is that Jnaani uses his body, mind and intellect for loka kalyanam - BMI will be there until praarabda gets exhausted. The Lord will maintain the BMI to insure that those who are seeking knowledge will have an opportunity to learn.After seeing your mail, thought I should respond.Hari Om!Sadananda
On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 11:16:15 PM GMT+5:30, sunil bhattacharjya via Advaita-l <adva...@lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
Mr. Chandramouli,
It will nice if you please don't hesitate to tell me a bit about your
background, as I am wondering why you are not being able to understand the
very simple meaning of the sanskrit word *"Manah.* Understanding what is
*Manah* is very crucial for understanding *Sankhya*, which was taught by
the *Sage Kapila, an avatara of Lord Vishnu*. The *Manah* is a part of
our *Subtle
Body or Sukshma shareera*, and it is the* Mahah*, which makes us interact
with the Vyavaharika world. That is why the concept of *Manah-shunya*
>> > email to advaitin+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> >
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAEs%2B%2BdMbGNcU%2BEFX2w1WEj-_xo3gnM%3D8UJoqF7geJu6bamQDyw%40mail.gmail.com
>> > <
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAEs%2B%2BdMbGNcU%2BEFX2w1WEj-_xo3gnM%3D8UJoqF7geJu6bamQDyw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>> >
>> > .
>> >
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Dear Sadanandaji - NamasteYou wrote as follows:The question focuses on the Jnaani. Your statement appears to imply that Jnaani after abiding in the knowledge will not have a mind or something like that.You also got me wrong. Chandramouliji contested the Manah-shunya state, by saying that Instead of the yogi being Manah-Shunya he should have been Manah-Ananda. My reply was to say that he was wrong.With the background that the Buddhi has, the Ahamkara develops the attachment/bonding/desire with the Vyavaharika world, and accordingly reacts with the vyavaharika world, through the Manah (the atirindriya), engaging the Jnanendriyas and the Karmendriyas (as needed), with the Vyavaharika world.Now, when the Jnana dawns in the Buddhi through (i) the grace of the Guru, (ii) and / or through reading the scriptures like the Vedas and the Upanishads or the Ramayana and the Mahabharata etc., (III) and followed by the appropriate meditation, the Ahamkara/Ego decreases and consequently the attachment for the Vyvaharika world also disappears. Once the attachment for the Vyavaharika world vanishes there is no role left for the Manah and that is the Manah-Shunya state.Hope this is clear now.Jai Shri KrishnaSunil KB