João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[mances]

Does anyone have the article written by Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real published in the Boletim do Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira, Separata do Volume XLIV – 1986, “Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente Radicados nos Açores desde o século XV” ?

 

I descend from Ana Afonso married to capitão João Roiz Monte from Faial da Terra, S. Miguel. I’ve read in the family search website that according to Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real Ana Afonso was born in Faial da Terra on 11 may 1612, and was daughter of Gregório Rebelo [Carreiro] and Susana Afonso de Pimentel. All her ancestry way back to the settlers João Afonso das Grotas Fundas and Rodrigo Afonso [Furtado] is in this work by Miguel Corte-Real.

I am curious about the notarial documentation used to prove this connection.

Manoel Cesar Furtado

[John Raposo]

Here is whatt Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real, of happy memory, has to say in his "Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente radicados nos Açores desde o Século XV (Estudo Histórico Genealógico" published in the Boletim do  Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira:

 

p. 71: I, João Afonso de Pimentel, o velho, x, Catarina Manuel, daughter of Manuel Domingues and Isabel Manuel 

   p. 91:  II. Leonor Manuel x. António Fernandes Furtado:

        p. 91. Maria Manuel x. Roque Álvares

            p. 91-92: Ana Afonso, b. FdT 10.1.1563 x Jorge Afonso, son of Afonso Álvares and Maria Gonçalves

                p. 92: Susana Afonso, b. FdT 15.3.1587 x. Gregório Rebelo Carreiro, son of Manuel Vaz Carreiro from Água Retorta, ad Joana Ferreira.

                    p. 93: Ana Afonso, b. 17.5.1612 in Fail da terra; x, Capt, João Roiz do Monte, Com Geração.

 

Here is what I have, for what it is worth:

 

 

Ahnentafel Chart for Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz

 

 

First Generation

 

      1. Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz  was born on 14 Jun 1648 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. She died before 18 Aug 1725.

Francisca married Manuel Pereira Fagundes  son of Antonio Fagundes Alferes and Catarina Pereira in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. Manuel was born in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. He died before 18 Aug 1725.

 

 

Second Generation

 

      2. Joao Roiz Monte Capitao .Joao married Anna Afonso or Rebelo before 1636.

 

      3. Anna Afonso or Rebelo  was born about 17 May 1612 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca.

 

 

Third Generation

 

      6. Gregorio Rebelo Carreiro Escudeiro  was born in res. Faial da Terra. He died on 17 Oct 1670 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. He married Susana Afonso de Pimentel about 1608 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca.

 

      7. Susana Afonso de Pimentel  was born about 15 Mar 1587 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. She died on 28 Dec 1675 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca.

 

 

Fourth Generation

 

    12. Manuel Vaz Carreiro  was born in Agua Retorta. He married Gracia Jorge.

 

    13. Gracia Jorge  was born on 5 Jan 1567 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca.

 

    14. Jorge Afonso .Jorge married Ana Afonso.

 

    15. Ana Afonso  was born about 10 Jan 1563 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca.

 

sendo padrinhos, brazia Vaz, mulher de Joao Afonso, ocmoco, e sua filhaIsabel Fagundas e

testemunhas Manuel Dias, tio da batisanda.

 

 

 

Fifth Generation

 

    24. Gaspar Vaz Carreiro  was born in living in Agua Retorta. He married Joana Ferreira or Francisca.

 

    25. Joana Ferreira or Francisca  was born in From Agua Retorta.

 

    26. Pero Cordeiro de Sampaio, o velho .Pero married Francisca Jorge before 1560.

 

AKA Pedro or Pero \Cordeiro,

 

 

    27. Francisca Jorge  was born in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. She died before 3 Nov 1599.

 

    28. Afonso Alvares .Afonso married Maria Goncalves.

 

    29. Maria Goncalves .

 

    30. Roque Alvares .Roque married Maria Manuel.

 

    31. Maria Manuel  was born in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca.

 

 

Sixth Generation

 

    54. Diogo Afonso Contrino  was born in resident- Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. He married Beatriz Fernandes before 9 Aug 1559.

 

    55. Beatriz Fernandes .

 

    62. Antonio Fernandes Furtado  was born in res Nordeste- Sao Jorge. He married Leonor Manuel.

 

    63. Leonor Manuel  was born in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca.

 

 

Seventh Generation

 

  108. Joao Afonso de Pimentel, o Velho Capitao  was born about 1490 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. He died after 17 Mar 1527 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. He married Catharina Manuel before 1511 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca.

 

 

See: Miguel Figeiredo Corte-Real: "Os Descendentes dos Condes deBenavente Radicados nos Açores

Desde o Século XV."

 

 

  109. Catharina Manuel  was born about 1485 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca.

 

  124. Pedro Roiz Escudeiro .Pedro married F...? Fernandes Furtado.

 

  125. F...? Fernandes Furtado .

 

126.  Joao Afonso de Pimentel, o Velho Capitao  is printed as #108 on page 2.

 

127.  Catharina Manuel  is printed as #109 on page 3.

 

 

Eighth Generation

 

  216. Joao Afonso de Pimentel  was born in Galicia, Spain, lived in Grotas Fundas, Ponta Garca. He died on 2 Sep 1512 in Grotas Fundas, Ponta Garca. He was buried in Vila Franca do Campo- Arcanjo. He married Isabel Goncalves.

 

  217. Isabel Goncalves .

 

  218. Manuel Domingues .Manuel married Isabel Manuel.

 

  219. Isabel Manuel .

 

  250. Fernao Gil .Fernao married Isabel Rodrigues Furtado.

 

  251. Isabel Rodrigues Furtado .

 

 

Ninth Generation

 

  432. Alonso de Pimentel Third Count of Benevente  was born in Spain?. He died in 1461. He married Maria Quinones y Toledo.

 

  433. Maria Quinones y Toledo  was born in Spain?. She died on 12 Apr 1477.

 

  502. Rodrigo Afonso Cavaleiro de Africa .Rodrigo married Mecia Maria Goncalves.

  503. Mecia Maria Goncalves .

 

 

 A WORD OF CAUTION: There is no conclusive evidence that João Afonsinho, as Frutuoso called him, was the son of the Count of Benaevente. Frutuoso, a notorious busybody, never said he was the son of a Count. I am told that the Instituto Culturale Ponta Delgada will be publishing a work within 18 months disproving the claim to the Counts. That must mean that documentation of  the identity of João Afonso's biological parents must have been found, or DNA testing has ruled out the Counts as João Afonso's parents. How else does one prove a negative?

 

  Here is what Rodrigo Rodrigues has to say:

CAPÍTULO 293.º: DA DESCENDÊNCIA DE GREGÓRIO REBELO  

 

 

§ Único

 

 

 

1 - Gregório Rebelo, morador no Faial da Terra, onde morreu a 17.10.1670. Foi padrinho de um baptizado no Faial da Terra a 18.12.1611 (Nota N.º 1). Casou antes de 1612 com Susana Afonso Pimentel (Cap.º 139.º § 1.º, N.º 4).

Tiveram:

2 - Ana, baptizada no Faial da Terra a 27.5.1612.

 

 

 

 

DA DESCENDÊNCIA DE JOÃO AFONSO, DAS GROTAS FUNDAS

 

 

 

 

§ 1.º

 

 

 

1 - João Afonso, das Grotas Fundas, 1.º desta família que veio para S. Miguel; fez testamento a 26.11.1511, em que vinculou, transcrito no Arquivo dos Açores Vol. XII pag.ª 100. Morreu a 2.9.1512 (Nota N.º 1). Casou com Isabel Gonçalves viúva, que instituiu uma capela que por escritura de 27.10.1608, seu bisneto Sebastião da Costa Columbreiro trespassou a Gaspar Manuel da Costa (N.º 4 do § 2.º).

Tiveram:

2 - João Afonso, o Velho, do Faial da Terra, capitão; instituiu o passal dos vigários do Faial da Terra para seu filho Belchior por testamento de 17.3.1527, tombado na freguesia de Nossa Senhora da Graça do mesmo lugar (Vid. Frutuoso Liv.º IV Cap.º XXXVIII § XIV e Vid. Nota N.º 1). Casou antes de 1511 com Catarina Manuel, (Cap.º 145.º § Único, N.º 2).

Tiveram:

3 - Gaspar Manuel, de Vila Franca, filho mais velho (Frutuoso Liv.º IV Cap.º XXXVIII § XIV). Era capitão de ordenanças da guerra no Nordeste e foi o herdeiro do vínculo instituído por seu avô João Afonso das Grotas Fundas (Nota N.º 1). Foi testamenteiro e herdeiro de seu irmão João da Costa e foi padrinho de um bap. no Faial da Terra a 22.11.1561 com sua filha Jordoa Manuel. Casou com Clara Afonso (Cap.º 9.º § 5.º, N.º 3).

Tiveram:

4 - Susana Afonso Pimentel, que morreu no Faial da Terra a 28.12.1675 (?) dizem os genealogistas ser esta filha de Gaspar Manuel e Clara Afonso, mas a cronologia parece opor-se a esta filiação. Casou c. Gregório Rebelo (Cap.º 293.º § Único, N.º 1).

N O T A S

 

 

 

1)   Gregório Rebelo (N.º 1 § Único)

João da Costa ou João da Costa Homem (Cap.º 139.º § 1.º, N.º 3), fez testamento no Faial da Terra em 1555 aprovado a 2.6.1559, em que instituiu um vinculo para seus irmãos Gaspar Manuel e Briolanja Manuel, casada com Pedro de Freitas, que nomeia seus testamenteiros, com encargo de meia capela de missas a cada um em forma de vinculo; a parte de Gaspar Manuel, este a nomeará em um de seus filhos, e a parte de Briolanja Manuel passará para seu filho Cipirão; fala em seu irmão Baltazar Manuel. Foi aberto testamento a 2.7.1559 em Vila Franca. Da parte de Briolanja Manuel deu contas António de Freitas da Costa, morador em Vila Franca. Da parte de Gaspar Manuel dá contas em 1641 Gregório Rebelo, morador no Faial da Terra até 1660; parece pois que sua mulher Susana Afonso é filha ou neta de Gaspar Manuel. Em 1662 deu contas Baltazar Velho Pacheco, novo administrador até 1674; em 1678 João Rebelo, morador no Nordeste até 1689; em 1700 Francisco Raposo Pimentel, morador no Nordeste; em 1709 o capitão Manuel Pacheco de Melo ou Manuel Pacheco de Melo Resendes ou Manuel Pacheco de Resendes (destas três formas chamado nos diversos anos em que dá contas), até 1774; em 1746 sua viúva Maria Jácome Raposo até 1749; em 1751 a irmã desta Madre Josefa de Jesus, religiosa no Convento de Santo André de Vila Franca até 1762; em 1765 o alferes João Duarte Pacheco Raposo, novo administrador até 1772; em 1783 António Boaventura Pacheco da Câmara, novo administrador em cuja linha segue (processo N.º 624 dos legados Pios de Ponta Delgada).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[mances]

John,

 

Thank you so much.

 

You know that RR doesn´t list Leonor Manuel as daughter of João Afonso, o Velho, but Miguel Corte Real does and says that she married Antonio Fernandes Furtado who according to RR married Águeda Afonso.

I’ve been looking through all the baptism records of Faial da Terra from 1555 to 1700 and noticed that it´s possible that Antonio Fernandes Furtado married twice.

Does MCR mention any notarial document to prove his marriage with Leonor Manuel?

 

After researching all baptisms and godparents in Faial da Terra in this time period I believe that João Roiz Monte (b. 18 dec 1605 – CCA #50) is the son of Antonio Afonso and Francisca Roiz, paternal grandson of Pedro Cordeiro, o velho, and Francisca Jorge, and maternal grandson of Amador do Monte and Branca Manuel.

 

Manoel

[George Pacheco]

Hello Manoel I have a book called os pimenteis I beloved it has them in it I will check after I leave the hospital.

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013, mances <man...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John,
>
>  
>
> Thank you so much.
>
>  
>
> You know that RR doesn´t list Leonor Manuel as daughter of João Afonso, o Velho, but Miguel Corte Real does and says that she married Antonio Fernandes Furtado who according to RR married Águeda Afonso.
>
> I’ve been looking through all the baptism records of Faial da Terra from 1555 to 1700 and noticed that it´s possible that Antonio Fernandes Furtado married twice.
>
> Does MCR mention any notarial document to prove his marriage with Leonor Manuel?
>
>  
>
> After researching all baptisms and godparents in Faial da Terra in this time period I believe that João Roiz Monte (b. 18 dec 1605 – CCA #50) is the son of Antonio Afonso and Francisca Roiz, paternal grandson of Pedro Cordeiro, o velho, and Francisca Jorge, and maternal grandson of Amador do Monte and Branca Manuel.
>
>  
>
> Manoel
>
> Em terça-feira, 16 de julho de 2013 13h39min22s UTC-3, John Raposo escreveu:
>>
>> Here is whatt Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real, of happy memory, has to say in his "Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente radicados nos Açores desde o Século XV (Estudo Histórico Genealógico" published in the Boletim do  Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira:
>>  
>> p. 71: I, João Afonso de Pimentel, o velho, x, Catarina Manuel, daughter of Manuel Domingues and Isabel Manuel 
>>    p. 91:  II. Leonor Manuel x. António Fernandes Furtado:
>>         p. 91. Maria Manuel x. Roque Álvares
>>             p. 91-92: Ana Afonso, b. FdT 10.1.1563 x Jorge Afonso, son of Afonso Álvares and Maria Gonçalves
>>                 p. 92: Susana Afonso, b. FdT 15.3.1587 x. Gregório Rebelo Carreiro, son of Manuel Vaz Carreiro from Água Retorta, ad Joana Ferreira.
>>                     p. 93: Ana Afonso, b. 17.5.1612 in Fail da terra; x, Capt, João Roiz do Monte, Com Geração.
>>  
>> Here is what I have, for what it is worth:
>>  
>>  
>> Ahnentafel Chart for Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz
>>  
>>  
>> First Generation
>>  
>>       1. Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz  was born on 14 Jun 1648 in Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. She died before 18 Aug 1725.
>> Francisca married Manuel Pereira Fagundes  son of Antonio Fagundes Alferes and Catarina Pereira in Faial da Terra- NS da G

>> From: mances <man...@gmail.com>
>> To: azo...@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:26 AM
>> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>>
>> Does anyone have the article written by Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real published in the Boletim do Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira, Separata do Volume XLIV – 1986, “Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente Radicados nos Açores desde o século XV” ?
>>  
>> I descend from Ana Afonso married to capitão João Roiz Monte from Faial da Terra, S. Miguel. I’ve read in the family search website that according to Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real Ana Afonso was born in Faial da Terra on 11 may 1612, and was daughter of Gregório Rebelo [Carreiro] and Susana Afonso de Pimentel. All her ancestry way back to the settlers João Afonso das Grotas Fundas and Rodrigo Afonso [Furtado] is in this work by Miguel Corte-Real.
>> I am curious about the notarial documentation used to prove this connection.
>> Manoel Cesar Furtado
>> --
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>  
>>  
>>
>>
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>  
>

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www.georgepacheco.com

[Manoel Cesar]

Oi George,

Espero que tudo tenha corrido bem na sua cirurgia, e desejo que você se recupere logo.

Passei também recentemente por um problema de câncer na minha família.

Meu irmão operou no dia 24 do mês passado de um câncer no assoalho da boca, e passa bem graças a Deus. Agora ele vai fazer a radioterapia para evitar o retorno do câncer.

Um grande abraço, e aguardo a suas notícias sobre o João Afonso das Grotas Fundas.

Manoel 

2013/7/17 George Pacheco <bretan...@gmail.com>

--
Manoel Cesar Furtado
man...@gmail.com

[brownat68]

Hello

I was wondering if there were any updates on this thread.

Has the connection of João Afonso Pimentel das Grotas Fundas to Alfonso Pimentel, 3rd Count of Bonavente been proven or disproved?

Todd

[manita.morgado]

I would like the answer to that question too!

I have a few questions:

1. What is the story?

I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but my Portuguese is limited. I only recognize words ...something about torture, abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to Santiago de Compostela and building a hospital.

2. What is the controversy?

3. Is there further study being done on him? What other source records exist on him?

4. Now that we have DNA testing. Is it possible now to prove who he was?

I'm completely fascinated.

5. Also. Where exactly if Grotas Fundas? I want to go visit this place when I go to Sao Miguel next week.

Looking foward to any information you have on him.

Thank you!

[JR]

I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history and story. 

For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80 era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an outstanding view.

The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards in times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our ancestors. Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned land there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in the past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila Franca. Take your camera!

JR

[Cheri Mello]

That "Ribeira Quente, limit of the freguesia de Ponta Garca" meant Grotas Fundas? I thought it basically meant the edge of town. I have a lot of ancestors from the "limit!"  Things that I learn from this list!

Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[JR]

More or less, Grotas Fundas, or a little bit more inland; but it is difficult terrain, and undeveloped, so few people lived beyond the actual neighbourhood. It is all hilly area and that's where they would go work their small parcels of land or the larger ones owned by the wealthy landowners. Nobody lived in the hills. There was a mill down below and you can still see the giant stone wheel mill. My grandmother and great-grandparents ran a mill, but closer to Ribeira Grande, the street on the western end, where another creek by the same name ran by. The beach area in Grotas Fundas can be treacherous if you don't watch for the tides. Otherwise it is like any other beach. But remember, the "sand" is all black volcanic grains, absorbs heat and gets quite hot in the sun. 

In this photo https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-kGWCB2c you can see the cows in the hilly areas as you go the last street, called the Guiteria. 

In this photo https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-7Gpfjnk , taken at Grotas Fundas at street level you see the hills the cover up Ribeira Quente. To get there, you have to climb the hills and wind your way towards those jutting hills. And well beyond those immediate hills is Povoacao. Although Furnas is in between, it is located more northward in God's country, as they say, the last frontier of Sao Miguel. 

In this image of Ribeira Quente https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-jsf57Td you are looking west toward Ponta Garca and Vila Franca. But as you see, only the hill is visible, the same one you saw from the other side in Grotas Fundas.

JR

[Manita M]

Thank you KINDLY!

This is VERY HELPFUL.

I am DEFINITELY going now that I have such detailed instructions on how to find it.

I am going to try to do that hike.  I love hiking and I want to walk in the footpath of our ancestors, so this is going to be particularly special for me.

Thank you for sharing your wonderful photos.

Do you happen to know the exact name of the trail by chance?  Is it an official trail?  Is it this one?

http://trails.visitazores.com/en/trails-azores/sao-miguel/trilho-do-agriao

Or do I just ask a local?

[JR]

Yes that would be the same trail. I was afraid of that, notice the red warning at top, the trail is now closed. It seems heavy rains caused some areas to be overrun with mudslides, so the authorities closed it down until future notice. I was told you can still take the trail by a walkaround, but the authorities won't sanction it. There many other fine trails that will see on the site. I would take the Fazenda trail, or for longer hikes, the Nordeste trails.

JR

[Manita M]

Hola!

Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?

I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a detour to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information.

Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you relying on RR's information?

Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?

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[Ângela Loura]

Olá Manita,

Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?

[Manita M]

It's in Spain.

Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:

my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in ? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are Alfonso de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461 Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died 12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the child of this couple as there is mystery around him.

http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm

[Manita M]

When I was at the PDL library in September

[Ângela Loura]

Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at the info in geneall

[Shirley Allegre]

See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I got some of the info from geneall.net.  AND some from George Pacheco, plus other people.

Shirley in CA

----- Original Message -----

From: Ângela Loura

To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at the info in geneall

2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M <manita....@gmail.com>:

It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.

Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:

I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.

my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in ? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are Alfonso de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461 Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died 12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the child of this couple as there is mystery around him.

DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd Count of Benavente.

[Júlio]

[Eliseu Pacheco da Silva]

Obrigado!

[JR]

Thank you Julio and Shirley. Is there any way to get this in different form? I am unable to read it or magnify large enough to read it. I tried saving page, but it still too small.

JR

[Manita M]

Hello,

I converted the jpg's into a pdf, for ease of viewing.

Also, guess who was in Benavente and Toledo a few weeks ago looking for information?  Moi!  I got lots of information, but wasn't able to find any evidence of Joao Afonso's birth.  I needed more time and ability to navigate Toledo's nobelza archivo gatekeeper.  I've actually hired a Spanish genealogist to help me, when I realized I couldn't do it on my own.

Are there are any other "serious" folks on this list wanting this exact information and wanting to be more actively involved in the research?  Could you please reach out to me and perhaps we can collaborate outside of this group?  or we can certainly discuss such, within this group, but I don't want the e-mails to be overwhelming to those that are not keen.  Cheri, prima, I'll let you suggest what is best aligned and in keeping for this group.

During the holidays, I plan on documenting my research, contacts, documents and findings from my recent trip to Spain.

In the meantime, can someone translate the attached document or pull out key information?  Any clues on his birth or how he ended up in the Azores, etc?

[Manita M]

On the bottom half of page 102, as pointed out by Julio, there is a reference to:

"LOPO DÍAS, DA MAIA, MEU PARENTE"

Since this document was written in November 1511, can you please check your family trees for this man being alive at this time.  Who is? How is he "related" to Joao Afonso exactly. 

[Eliseu Pacheco da Silva]

I will try to establish if I am related to Lopo Dias… then I will let you know…

[Manita M]

I'm not sure if it's the correct Lopo Días, but I saw a reference in RR's capitulo 162 to a Lopo Dias.  If this is indeed the person that the testament refers to, I'm still not sure how Lopo Días and João Afonso are related.

[RUI MIGUEL SOUSA]

  My great-grandfather was the brother of Dr. Simas. One of my family members has spent many years conducting extensive genealogical research on our family and has successfully traced our lineage back to João Afonso das Grotas Fundas, one of the earliest settlers of São Miguel. The amount of documentation and historical research that has been compiled is truly remarkable, and I'd be happy to share it with anyone who has an interest in this branch of Azorean history.