Rain gauge stopped working | TFA Opus / LaCrosse 28xx

[Ξ]

Sorry, not weewx related, but since there are a few users here using this hw I thought of giving it a try before ordering replacement.

Rain is no longer measured when the lever inside the gauge tips, I've tried with new batteries; also removing all batteries — from the thermo-hygro sensor, rain, and the display unit, again to no avail, the indication for rain stays at 0.0. The rain sensor does indeed connect to the thermo-hygro sensor, so it's not a connection malfunction.

Any clues/tips?!

[Luc Heijst]

Did you check if all 4 battery low stati in the archive database are zero? If not solve this first.
Not sure if a single tip of the rain bucket results in a rain reading other than 0.0; I will check this tomorrow.
Luc

[Ξ]

Hey Luc,

Yep, all batteries have '0' status. Also, I've tried tipping the lever many times, swapping the batteries with new ones, again tipping it dozen times, removing all batteries from the rain, thermo-hygro, and the display... pretty much everything except a complete initialization of the station.

[Luc Heijst]

As all battery stati are ok and the rain meter is sending 0.0 data via the thermo/hygro sensor to the main unit. The only thing I can think of before buying a replacement rain meter is checking the reed relais.

Attached two photo's of my TFA Primus rain meter which besides the solar cell will be similar to that of the Opus I quess.

Check if the contacts of the reed relais are open and are closed when the magnet on the rain buckets is brought close to it.

Good luck! 

BTW. The battery low stati of the wind meter and outside thermo/hygro meter are interchanged in the current version of the ws28xx driver.

[Luc Heijst]

These are the photos of the circuit boards of TFA Primus rain meter. 

[Ξ]

The plastic casing is exactly the same, but what's inside is slightly different, I'm not now at the property where the meteo station is, I'll see what I can do without breaking it (further).

Thank you, Luc!

[Dik]

Hi,

I have exactly the same problem with my TFA Opus rain gauge. After I've done the reset procedure, my rain gauge will detect rain (manually tipping the lever), but after 20 minutes or so  it doesn't work anymore.
When inspecting the gauge from the inside, I see a red wire which is not connected at one side. Is this correct?  How can I see if the reed relais are working?
Regards, Dik

Op dinsdag 7 april 2015 12:30:35 UTC+2 schreef Ξ:

[L.J.M. Heijst]

Hi Dik,

The problem with the rain meter might be bad or poor radio transmission. Recently I replaced my TFA Primus rain meter because it didn't work anymore at a distance of 10 m from the thermo-hygro unit. At close range (1 m) it worked ok. When you observe the transmission icon blinking of the rain meter on the main unit and tip the rain bucket, you should notice an increase of 0.2 mm rain after the second blink. So I think there must be received at least two succesive readings with the same value before the rain value is registered by the main unit.

The red wire is the radio anenna. Checking the reed relais is tricky. The metal lips inside should close when you bring a magnet near by, but if the magnetic field is too strong I'm affraid it will damage the relais (not sure though if this is true).

The problem might be the rechargeable batteries or bad electrical connection between the batteries and the battery holder.

I have problems with my rain meter lately. The batteries are not charged enough and the meter work for about four weeks before reception of the radio signal is lost (at a range of about 25 m from the thermo/hygro sensor). May be you have similar problems with your rain meter. 

Ps. I will try replacing the rechargeable batteries of my wind meter by alkaline batteries. I hope it will not destroy my meter. I will keep you informed about the results.

Luc

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[Dik]

Hello,
Yesterday I replaced the batteries of my rain-gauge with new alkeline batteries in order to get it back in operation. I placed the unit not far away (2 m) from the thermo/hygrometer. The communication between the rain-gauge and console is working (as it did before), but not rain is detected when I move the lever. It must be something with the relais. I bought the TFA Opus second hand, but I still have one and a half year garantee on the unit. I will contact the dealer what to do.

Dik

Op woensdag 27 mei 2015 15:16:24 UTC+2 schreef Luc Heijst:

Hello to all TFA Primus / Opus rain and or wind meter owners with solar cells,

I promised you to report my efforts to get the wind readings back of my TFA Primus wind meter. 

My TFA Primus wind meter has poor power. Either the soloar cell circuit is not working properly or my rechargeable NiMh batteries were not the right replacement for the original broken rechargeable alkaline batteries (which have about 0.3 V higher voltage).

New rechargeable alkaline batteries are still available, but seen the bad properties of such batteries and the need of a special charger decided me not to buy these.

It happened that I have a 'spare' wind meter of a TFA Opus weather station. This wind meter didn't work from the start because one rechargeable alkaline AAA battery was broken (0.2 V). New rechargeable NiMh batteries didn't work.

Today I placed two new (non-rechargeable) alkaline batteries with a voltage of 1.6 V each, pushed the reset button and placed the batteries back in my thermo/hygro meter and base station. Fingers crossed!

After a minute or so the communication with all sensors came back and I got good readings from my TFA Opus wind meter!

Conclusion: When the rechargeable alkaline batteries of a TFA Primus or Opus wind and or rain meter are not good anymore, you might try to replace them with normal alkaline batteries. 

Tip:Don't remove the solar cell (wires), because the meter doesn't work with the solar cell unplugged!

Luc

[Luc Heijst]

Warning to TFA Primus / Opus owners with a wind or rain meter with solar panel.

Recently I wrote that I had replaced the rechargeable alkaline batteries of my wind meter by normal alkaline batteries. 

Everything looked normal, but after about 24-hours the windmeter stopped sending data.

I have to investigate what is wrong, but for now I advice NOT to place normal alkaline batteries in TFA wind and rain meters with solar panels.

Luc 

[Luc Heijst]

It appears the wind meter of the TFA Opus is not sending data anymore. The voltage of the alkaline batteries had dropped to 14.4 V which looks normal. From the start I had problems with receiving data from this meter

I switched back to my original TFA Primus wind meter in which I placed rechargeable NiMH AAA batteries (type: eneloop). This is not a permanent solution because the batteries last about 4 weeks or less depending how much birds ******** on the solar cell window...

Luc

[Luc Heijst]

Update: Replacing original rechargeable batteries in a TFA Primus/TFA Opus wind sensor by normal alkaline batteries seems save

As I wrote before: my TFA Opus wind sensor stopped sending data 24-hours after I replaced the alkaline rechargeable batteries by normal alkaline batteries, so I had my doubts...

That's why I asked the supplier of my TFA weather stations about this subject and the answer was "It is save to replace the rechargeable alkaline batteries by normal alkaline batteries. Don't use rechargeable NiMH batteries; the voltage of this type batteries is too low".

With crossed fingers I replaced on july 26th the rechargeable NiMH batteries in my TFA Primus wind sensor (which last about 4 weeks when placed fully charged) by normal alkaline batteries.

This wind sensor still sends data until now (currently for 24 days, see graphs).

Luc

On Thursday, 28 May 2015 20:18:26 UTC-3, Luc Heijst wrote:

[Luc Heijst]

Update:

The AAA alkaline batteries lasted about twice as long as the rechargeable AAA NI-MH batteries (8 weeks versus 4 weeks). 

In my situation a voltage of minimum 1.2 V per battery was required to get a reliable transmission over 25 m to the receiver (thermo/hygro sensor).

An 8 weeks period is still too short for the work to lower the mast, remove the wind sensor, open it, replace the batteries and reverse.

This time I soldered a loudspeaker cable (the cable has one side marked with a black line) to the + and - of the wind sensor and the other side of the 10 m cable was soldered to a battery compartiment for two C-type batteries.

A typical alkaline C-battery has a capacity of 8000 mAh where an alkaline AAA-battery has 800-1200 mAh capacity.

With a bit of luck the new configuration last about 12-18 months and the replacement of the two C-type batteries at ground level is a piece of cake!

Luc

[Ξ]

Wait, what? The manufacturer says don't use rechargeable batteries for the anemometre even though that's what it originally contains?! That doesn't make sense.

As for my problem with the rain gauge I simply bought a new one, it turned out it's quite pricey (50-60 euro) so I had to shop around and eventually I asked a TFA dealer for a discount and I got it for something like 35.

[Luc Heijst]

Hi,

I got this advice from the supplier of the weather station, not the manufacturer.

It's all about the type of rechargeable batteries.

The original alkaline rechargeable batteries are OK, but they are hard to get and their specifications are not very well. They have a voltage of 1,5 V.

The widely spread NiCd and NiMH rechargeable batteries are NOT OK because of the lower voltage of 1.2 V.

Note. You might also use Li-FeS2 batteries. They are also not rechargeable, have a voltage of 1.5 V and work until -40 degrees Celsius.

Luc

[Ξ]

Thanks a lot for this, Luc!

[Ξ]

Incidentally, back in August I had 'outage' because as it turned out the console batteries were flat but that wasn't reported in the log.

Do you have similar experience?

[Luc Heijst]

No, my console had two times low batteries reported, the rain meter once and the wind meter several times. Only the batteries of the thermo/hygro sensor were after 2,5 years of operation still going strong. Nevertheless I replaced them recentlybecause this device reveives the data of the wind and rain sensor and send these together with its own data to the console. In 2,5 years the original voltage of 3.1 V dropped only 0.4 V, so theoretically the battreries were 'half way'. Attached my battery year plot of cmion.

Luc

[Dik]

It appears my solar Wind sensor is not working anymore. I check the original rechargeable batteries in the wind gauge and the Voltage is below 1.2V. I suppose they can’t be recharged anymore after a one and a half year of duty. Now I have bought two AAA Lithium 1.5V batteries (ENERGIZER Ultimate Lithium). Can I safely replace my original rechargeable Alkaline batteries with these lithium batteries? Or do I have to change something in the circuit, so that these non rechargeable Lithium batteries won’t be charged? I can cut the wires to the solar panel…

 

Dik


Op woensdag 23 september 2015 19:10:02 UTC+2 schreef Luc Heijst:

[Luc Heijst]

Hi Dik,

I have experiences with three types of batteries, all with more or less good results.

1. Two AAA rechargeable NI-MH batteries (1.2 V). It works, but only for a few weeks, the the batteries have to be recharged in a separate vNI-MH charger.
2. Two AAA alkaline batteries (1.5 V). The lasted longer, but after a few months they were exausted.
3. Two C-type Alkaline batteries in an external battery compartment which is connected to the anemometer via a loudspeaker cable (one lead is marked black, easier to keep the polatity right when installing), see photo's.

I'm currently using option 3 and just two days ago the battery status of the wind meter went to 'low battery', so I changed my two C-type batteries today. They lasted 8.5 months (outside temperatures here varied from 20-34 degrees Celsius).

PS 1. On top of the wind mast you will notice the arm of the wind meter of my Davis Vantage Pro2 weather station, And yes, for those who will notice the smallest details, the arm is facing south !!! ;-)

PS 2. The 'battery holder' is in fact a broken temp/humidity sensor of my TFA Primus weater station. Now only the battery compartment is used!

Luc

[Luc Heijst]

I forgot to mention: leave the wires of the solar panel in place!

(I had bad experiences with cutting them, so I reconnected them again).

Luc

[Mike Larimore]

Not sure if anyone's still interested, but after some investigation, I think the reed switch design detecting the bucket tips for this class of rain gauge is flawed. I too noticed that on the bench the bucket tipping mechanism and counting works fine, but after sitting idle for a few hours, manually tipping it does nothing. Only by tapping it or using a very strong external magnet will it come to life. So when mounted outdoors, it eventually locks up until I get on the ladder to thump it.

Reed circuit applications are usually associated with entry detection, e.g. burglar alarm systems. A door or window opens, and the switch is activated as the magnet moves away. But in such applications the magnet moves a substantial distance from the switch, not the case for this rain gauge.

The unit's stationary reed switch is mounted vertically on a small circuit board very close to the bucket movement. There's a channel on the side of the bucket that has a small magnet embedded opposite the reed switch. The intent is that when the magnet swings by the reed switch, it briefly completes the detection loop. On paper that ought to work fine, but my speculation is that when the bucket's at rest, the magnet really isn't too far from the switch; far enough that the switch releases, but it's still in the near field of the magnet. Since the magnet is tilted relative to the switch, the static field is dominated by one polarity. And my sense is that over time, the reed switch's two elements retain enough of that magnetic bias to actually repel and overcome the magnet's passage for subsequent tips of the the bucket. This also could be aggravated by weakening of the magnet over time, or by the unit being subjected to summer temperatures.
I think the bucket movement is great, and gives nicely calibrated rainfall increments. So I set out to make an optical detector. There's plenty of room inside the housing, and with an LED and phototransistor mounted side by side, a simple foil reflector on the arm of the bucket seems to detect each tip reliably. We'll see how well it does this winter!