Application manager suggestion

[Carl Gundel]

You know it would be great if when you examined the list of applications in the application manager if it would display applications in a different color, or with some different icon (or something) when there are newer versions of an application or subapplication available.  The might help to reduce the number of times I think I have all the latest stuff loaded when I don't, and then I write a bunch of code against an old version and then discover a long time later that I screwed up.

 

Thanks,

 

-Carl

[Seth Berman]

Hi Carl,

Regardless of use cases and if it makes sense to do this, the number one issue will be how to make this fast since this means many more emsrv calls per tree node.  

And folks with higher latency links, or really any configuration other than file I/O or localhost, will be undoubtedly be upset.  

I know this because the va assist configuration map browser frequently suffers the same issue despite our optimizations.  The "chattiness" of emsrv works to our detriment here unfortunately.

We are looking to address some of these issues at an architectural level for the next release, mostly for acceptable WAN performance, but perhaps it will allow for more real-time emsrv status behavior like this.

-- Seth

[Carl Gundel]

I understand.  Thanks.  :-)

[Richard Sargent]

On Monday, November 10, 2014 11:28:02 AM UTC-8, Carl Gundel wrote:

You know it would be great if when you examined the list of applications in the application manager if it would display applications in a different color, or with some different icon (or something) when there are newer versions of an application or subapplication available.  The might help to reduce the number of times I think I have all the latest stuff loaded when I don't, and then I write a bunch of code against an old version and then discover a long time later that I screwed up.

Hi Carl,

The best practice is to work with an open edition of a configuration map (if you are working with multiple applications), and open editions of the applications you are modifying, with the app editions released into the config map. Then version and release classes as you go.

After that, it is simply a matter of loading the open map edition when you start up (if you didn't save the image with your latest work already).
 

[Joachim Tuchel]

Hi Carl,

as Richard already said, you should use Config Maps and get as comfortable with them as you can. There are many little tricks the config maps browser has to offer, like Release Loaded, Release other and colors indicating that the loaded app edition in your image is not the released one.

This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but Config Maps also help staying focussed on the Applications that are really relevant for your project.

I also highly suggest taking a look at the Mastering Envy Bible. This is the kind of book that you will not understand much of the first two times you read it, but one day take out of your shelf again and experience a big pile of mosaic pieces falling into place. The book is stuffed good advice and tipps as well as little known facts about envy. It also helps a lot if you want to start automating things. Since we are in Smalltalk, we can use Config Maps and Applications in our own code, extend them and do all kinds of cool and helpful stuff.

I know, reading a book is both old school and in your way if you just want to get something (seemingly) easy done. But the investment pays back really fast!

HTH,

Joachim

[Louis LaBrunda]

Hi Guys,

I like Carl's suggestion (not to say I don't agree with what everyone else said) maybe it could be an option that defaults to off and if the speed loss is acceptable, people can turn it on if they like.

Hey Joachim, where can I find the Mastering Envy Bible?

Thanks, Lou

[Marten Feldtmann]

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Am 11.11.2014 um 15:35 schrieb Louis LaBrunda:

>
> Hey Joachim, where can I find the Mastering Envy Bible?
>

http://www.amazon.de/Mastering-Envy-Developer-SIGS-Technology/dp/0521666503/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415721539&sr=8-1&keywords=mastering++envy
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[Richard Sargent]

It would be quite easy to write a simple Smalltalk script which scans your loaded applications for newer editions of the classes known and available and reports them to e.g. the Transcript and/or prompting you whether to load them for you.

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[Joachim Tuchel]

Richard,

you mean something like "More Recent Editions" for classes in the App Manager?

Sounds great, costs little and makes sense!

Joachim

[Joachim Tuchel]

Lou,

in your favorite Book store; Mastering Envy Developer by Knight, Cho and Pelrine.

Joachim

[Richard Sargent]

Pretty much.
In a message from a few months ago,  I outlined a technique for saving a list of unreleased classes. This would be slightly similar.

Carl, one of the things I love about Smalltalk is that the implementation behind every menu item is ready determined and studied. From that, you can pretty easily determine the code you need to do something similar for yourself.

[Louis LaBrunda]

Thanks Marten!

[Louis LaBrunda]

Thanks Joachim!

[Carl Gundel]

Yes, that's a great thing about Smalltalk.  I have already written a bunch of IDE tools since starting this port.  However, such obviously important features should be in there already.  Just saying.  ;-)

 

-Carl

[Richard Sargent]

On Friday, November 14, 2014 8:15:11 AM UTC-8, Carl Gundel wrote:

Yes, that's a great thing about Smalltalk.  I have already written a bunch of IDE tools since starting this port.  However, such obviously important features should be in there already.  Just saying.  ;-)

Without trying to start an argument, perhaps that means the feature isn't as important as you think. For example, if you version and release classes, there would be no issue. If your image exits without allowing you to save, there is a tool that you use to find out what your image should have held if you were able to save it before. That tool is the "make image consistent" menu item. It won't load different editions of classes, but it will report the different editions that you created after the last save. (I don't recall precisely what it does about method mismatches, but I think it will show you what methods should be in image but weren't, using the changes browser.)

[Carl Gundel]

Thanks, that's useful information.  I'm not trying to say that the software is unusable the way it is.  Sometimes newcomers to a software product have good ideas that the established community doesn't think are very important because they are used to things being the way they are.

 

-Carl