IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
Kayode J. Fakinlede
In recent months, I have witnessed the most
organised and coordinated effort to tear down our country that any person or a
group of people can muster. Nigeria, our country, has suddenly transmogrified
into a country of confused people who cannot put two and two together, its impending doom and imminent collapse being broadcast every
minute on the internet and the print
media.
Some months before, I was at a gathering in the United States and, as a lone person out, I had tried to defend our country among some of these naysayers only to find out that I was dangerously outmunbered. “What has Nigeria done for you?; why should I speak well about Nigeria, etc, etc?’ These kinds of questions were coming from even new arrivals and from young people who had just received their freshly minted certificates in one university or another in Nigeria and were lucky enough to have been able to secure a visa to America. Of course, I had previously, and several times found myself among groups of Nigerians who would spend the night castigating our country and throwing darts at it. Some even swore never to set eyes on Nigeria for ever.
Ah, Ah!!, I discovered why it is easy for these to put Nigeria down. The light and glare of the country America have blinded them to the reality of where they come from and the sacrifices made by their forebears to get them there. Evidently, much that they see and experience in America magically appeared across the landscape. A little learning, they say is a dangerous thing.
Of course, there is a majority of us, the silent majority, who by reason of our experience know that things do not always go harmonioulsy in God’s own country. In America, in spite of the daily jostling of each individual to get to the top regardless of whose ass is gored, we see the combined efforts of its citizens, irrespective of and in spite of their differences, to continuously improve - emphasis on improve - the school system, the legal system, the water system, the health provision system, the electricity supply system, roads and bridges, etc.
‘Towards a more perfect Union,’ Americans often proclaim this as their intention. But when I see the level of acrimony some issues generate within the polity, I often wonder if a perfect union can ever be achieved on earth. But at the end of it all, I realise that the glitter and fluorencence that we foreigners now come to enjoy are the results of years of the acrimonious debates and sacrifices – emphasis on sacrifices - made by their forebears.
One fact seems to run through the vein of all Americans though, they love their country, warts and all. Every American proclaims this at the roof top every time and before they start the aforementioned acrimonious debates.
Majority of Nigerians are like Americans too. We wake up in the morning, try to take care of our families the best way we can, get to our individual workplaces to earn a living, send our children to the best schools we can afford, and in general try to earn a living. We also love Nigeria, warts and all. And try our best to work towards a better Nigeria.
But we have let the naysayers hijack the debate. We have allowed them to control the tempo of our discussion. We have given them the megaphone, they are now browbeating us with negative propaganda, and we are cowered by the intensity of their intention.
Let us therefore begin to take to the bulhorn to declare our love for our country Nigeria. Let our positive proclamation drown the organized, cacophony and grandiloquence of the naysayers. They do have a plan and their plan is to tear Nigeria apart. We have a better plan and that better plan is to keep Nigeria one. And we do not have to debate or apologize to anyone for this.
God bless Nigeria
Ibigbolade Aderibigbe
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Olukayode Soremekun
I DO LOVE MY COUNTRY, NIGERIA.
LONG LIVE NIGERIA!
I DO NOT LISTEN TO THE NAYSAYERS.
Thank you Kayode.
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2017 1:41:03 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
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Olayinka Agbetuyi
Kayode J. Fakinlede
Moses Ebe Ochonu
I DO LOVE MY COUNTRY, NIGERIA.
LONG LIVE NIGERIA!
I DO NOT LISTEN TO THE NAYSAYERS.
Thank you Kayode.
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kayode J. Fakinlede <jfaki...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2017 1:41:03 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
In recent months, I have witnessed the most organised and coordinated effort to tear down our country that any person or a group of people can muster. Nigeria, our country, has suddenly transmogrified into a country of confused people who cannot put two and two together, its impending doom and imminent collapse being broadcast every minute on the internet and the print media.
Some months before, I was at a gathering in the United States and, as a lone person out, I had tried to defend our country among some of these naysayers only to find out that I was dangerously outmunbered. “What has Nigeria done for you?; why should I speak well about Nigeria, etc, etc?’ These kinds of questions were coming from even new arrivals and from young people who had just received their freshly minted certificates in one university or another in Nigeria and were lucky enough to have been able to secure a visa to America. Of course, I had previously, and several times found myself among groups of Nigerians who would spend the night castigating our country and throwing darts at it. Some even swore never to set eyes on Nigeria for ever.
Ah, Ah!!, I discovered why it is easy for these to put Nigeria down. The light and glare of the country America have blinded them to the reality of where they come from and the sacrifices made by their forebears to get them there. Evidently, much that they see and experience in America magically appeared across the landscape. A little learning, they say is a dangerous thing.
Of course, there is a majority of us, the silent majority, who by reason of our experience know that things do not always go harmonioulsy in God’s own country. In America, in spite of the daily jostling of each individual to get to the top regardless of whose ass is gored, we see the combined efforts of its citizens, irrespective of and in spite of their differences, to continuously improve - emphasis on improve - the school system, the legal system, the water system, the health provision system, the electricity supply system, roads and bridges, etc.
‘Towards a more perfect Union,’ Americans often proclaim this as their intention. But when I see the level of acrimony some issues generate within the polity, I often wonder if a perfect union can ever be achieved on earth. But at the end of it all, I realise that the glitter and fluorencence that we foreigners now come to enjoy are the results of years of the acrimonious debates and sacrifices – emphasis on sacrifices - made by their forebears.
One fact seems to run through the vein of all Americans though, they love their country, warts and all. Every American proclaims this at the roof top every time and before they start the aforementioned acrimonious debates.
Majority of Nigerians are like Americans too. We wake up in the morning, try to take care of our families the best way we can, get to our individual workplaces to earn a living, send our children to the best schools we can afford, and in general try to earn a living. We also love Nigeria, warts and all. And try our best to work towards a better Nigeria.
But we have let the naysayers hijack the debate. We have allowed them to control the tempo of our discussion. We have given them the megaphone, they are now browbeating us with negative propaganda, and we are cowered by the intensity of their intention.
Let us therefore begin to take to the bulhorn to declare our love for our country Nigeria. Let our positive proclamation drown the organized, cacophony and grandiloquence of the naysayers. They do have a plan and their plan is to tear Nigeria apart. We have a better plan and that better plan is to keep Nigeria one. And we do not have to debate or apologize to anyone for this.
God bless Nigeria
--
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Kayode J. Fakinlede
My point exactly. My love for Nigeria is ‘calculated, self interested and strategic’ and wise. I am also from the Southwest which really makes my love for my country wise plus I do not feel like biting the finger that feeds me, which makes my love even more strategic. Patriotism is really direcly proportional to how I perceive Nigeria, and I perceive it well. The only bit of error in your write-up is that Nigeria is descending into a centrifugal funk. To me, it is not. I think what you intended to communicate is your own perception of your own birthplace. And you have the right to your opinion. Moreover, true patriots all over the world DO need to make noise about their patriotism. That is allowed. That is encouraged.
I will criticize my fellow Nigerians when I have to and I will advocate publicly and consistently as a Nigerian but I will NEVER say those unprintable words that some people are used to saying on the internet about my country or any other person’s country.
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 2:43:38 PM UTC+1, Kayode J. Fakinlede wrote:
Chidi Anthony Opara
CAO.
Chidi Anthony Opara
I am from the South-East and "my calculated self-interest" does not permit me to "love" Nigeria according to your own definition of love.
Moreover, it is this attitude of people like you(the elite)that gives impetus to separatist agitations, which you and your comrades try hard to label unpatriotic!
CAO.
Chidi Anthony Opara
CAO.
Kayode J. Fakinlede
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 2:43:38 PM UTC+1, Kayode J. Fakinlede wrote:
Olayinka Agbetuyi
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (I DO LOVE MY COUNTRY, NIGERIA.
LONG LIVE NIGERIA!
I DO NOT LISTEN TO THE NAYSAYERS.
Thank you Kayode.
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kayode J. Fakinlede <jfaki...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2017 1:41:03 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
In recent months, I have witnessed the most organised and coordinated effort to tear down our country that any person or a group of people can muster. Nigeria, our country, has suddenly transmogrified into a country of confused people who cannot put two and two together, its impending doom and imminent collapse being broadcast every minute on the internet and the print media.
Some months before, I was at a gathering in the United States and, as a lone person out, I had tried to defend our country among some of these naysayers only to find out that I was dangerously outmunbered. “What has Nigeria done for you?; why should I speak well about Nigeria, etc, etc?’ These kinds of questions were coming from even new arrivals and from young people who had just received their freshly minted certificates in one university or another in Nigeria and were lucky enough to have been able to secure a visa to America. Of course, I had previously, and several times found myself among groups of Nigerians who would spend the night castigating our country and throwing darts at it. Some even swore never to set eyes on Nigeria for ever.
Ah, Ah!!, I discovered why it is easy for these to put Nigeria down. The light and glare of the country America have blinded them to the reality of where they come from and the sacrifices made by their forebears to get them there. Evidently, much that they see and experience in America magically appeared across the landscape. A little learning, they say is a dangerous thing.
Of course, there is a majority of us, the silent majority, who by reason of our experience know that things do not always go harmonioulsy in God’s own country. In America, in spite of the daily jostling of each individual to get to the top regardless of whose ass is gored, we see the combined efforts of its citizens, irrespective of and in spite of their differences, to continuously improve - emphasis on improve - the school system, the legal system, the water system, the health provision system, the electricity supply system, roads and bridges, etc.
‘Towards a more perfect Union,’ Americans often proclaim this as their intention. But when I see the level of acrimony some issues generate within the polity, I often wonder if a perfect union can ever be achieved on earth. But at the end of it all, I realise that the glitter and fluorencence that we foreigners now come to enjoy are the results of years of the acrimonious debates and sacrifices – emphasis on sacrifices - made by their forebears.
One fact seems to run through the vein of all Americans though, they love their country, warts and all. Every American proclaims this at the roof top every time and before they start the aforementioned acrimonious debates.
Majority of Nigerians are like Americans too. We wake up in the morning, try to take care of our families the best way we can, get to our individual workplaces to earn a living, send our children to the best schools we can afford, and in general try to earn a living. We also love Nigeria, warts and all. And try our best to work towards a better Nigeria.
But we have let the naysayers hijack the debate. We have allowed them to control the tempo of our discussion. We have given them the megaphone, they are now browbeating us with negative propaganda, and we are cowered by the intensity of their intention.
Let us therefore begin to take to the bulhorn to declare our love for our country Nigeria. Let our positive proclamation drown the organized, cacophony and grandiloquence of the naysayers. They do have a plan and their plan is to tear Nigeria apart. We have a better plan and that better plan is to keep Nigeria one. And we do not have to debate or apologize to anyone for this.
God bless Nigeria
--
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Kenneth Harrow
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
Michigan State University
619 Red Cedar Rd
East Lansing, MI 48824
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Olayinka Agbetuyi
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Kenneth Harrow
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
Michigan State University
619 Red Cedar Rd
East Lansing, MI 48824
Olayinka Agbetuyi
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (chidi...@gmail.com)
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Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, 7 July 2017 at 15:34
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Eligius Ihewulezi
From:usaafricadialogue@ googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@ googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kayode J. Fakinlede <jfaki...@gmail.com>
Olayinka Agbetuyi
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Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2017 1:41:03 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
In recent months, I have witnessed the most organised and coordinated effort to tear down our country that any person or a group of people can muster. Nigeria, our country, has suddenly transmogrified into a country of confused people who cannot put two and two together, its impending doom and imminent collapse being broadcast every minute on the internet and the print media.
Some months before, I was at a gathering in the United States and, as a lone person out, I had tried to defend our country among some of these naysayers only to find out that I was dangerously outmunbered. “What has Nigeria done for you?; why should I speak well about Nigeria, etc, etc?’ These kinds of questions were coming from even new arrivals and from young people who had just received their freshly minted certificates in one university or another in Nigeria and were lucky enough to have been able to secure a visa to America. Of course, I had previously, and several times found myself among groups of Nigerians who would spend the night castigating our country and throwing darts at it. Some even swore never to set eyes on Nigeria for ever.Ah, Ah!!, I discovered why it is easy for these to put Nigeria down. The light and glare of the country America have blinded them to the reality of where they come from and the sacrifices made by their forebears to get them there. Evidently, much that they see and experience in America magically appeared across the landscape. A little learning, they say is a dangerous thing.Of course, there is a majority of us, the silent majority, who by reason of our experience know that things do not always go harmonioulsy in God’s own country. In America, in spite of the daily jostling of each individual to get to the top regardless of whose ass is gored, we see the combined efforts of its citizens, irrespective of and in spite of their differences, to continuously improve - emphasis on improve - the school system, the legal system, the water system, the health provision system, the electricity supply system, roads and bridges, etc.‘Towards a more perfect Union,’ Americans often proclaim this as their intention. But when I see the level of acrimony some issues generate within the polity, I often wonder if a perfect union can ever be achieved on earth. But at the end of it all, I realise that the glitter and fluorencence that we foreigners now come to enjoy are the results of years of the acrimonious debates and sacrifices – emphasis on sacrifices - made by their forebears.One fact seems to run through the vein of all Americans though, they love their country, warts and all. Every American proclaims this at the roof top every time and before they start the aforementioned acrimonious debates.Majority of Nigerians are like Americans too. We wake up in the morning, try to take care of our families the best way we can, get to our individual workplaces to earn a living, send our children to the best schools we can afford, and in general try to earn a living. We also love Nigeria, warts and all. And try our best to work towards a better Nigeria.But we have let the naysayers hijack the debate. We have allowed them to control the tempo of our discussion. We have given them the megaphone, they are now browbeating us with negative propaganda, and we are cowered by the intensity of their intention.Let us therefore begin to take to the bulhorn to declare our love for our country Nigeria. Let our positive proclamation drown the organized, cacophony and grandiloquence of the naysayers. They do have a plan and their plan is to tear Nigeria apart. We have a better plan and that better plan is to keep Nigeria one. And we do not have to debate or apologize to anyone for this.God bless Nigeria
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Salimonu Kadiri
Kayode J. Fakinlede wrote as a Nigerian advocating for Nigerians to be patriotic to their country Nigeria. Since, not by his choice, Mr. Fakinlede is a Yoruba (South-Westerner) by birth our learned Professor Moses Ebe Ochonu twisted Mr. Fakinlede's appeal to Nigerians to be patriotic to Nigeria as covert act in support of the current Federal government in Nigeria because the Southwest is one of its constituents. Thus, Professor Ochonu wrote, "I need not even go back to the post-June 12 period when separatist sentiment was at an all time high in the Southwest and when the Southwestern political elite and intelligentsia scoffed at any invocation of patriotism. This is a long winded way of saying THAT PATRIOTISM IS OFTEN DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO HOW ONE PERCEIVES THE UNION IN RELATION TO ONE'S (OR ONE'S GROUP'S) INTEREST AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME."
An understanding of Professor Ochonu's mischievous assertion above is that any group that is not part of the Federal government often clamours for secession and he took his example from June 12, 1993, as if the political history of Nigeria began on that date. Clever by half, the learned Professor deliberately avoided naming any political elite and intelligentsia from the Southwest that propagated for secession as a result of June 12, 1993, election controversy. After the result of the election was subverted by Arthur Nzeribe's midnight court orders, the Igbos in Lagos and Southwest moved out en-mass hoping that the Yoruba people were going to start a war because Abiola, the supposed winner of the election was Yoruba. However, the Yoruba understood that it was not their votes alone that gave Abiola Presidential election victory and as such it was the duty of all electorates throughout Nigeria that voted for Abiola to reclaim the mandate given to him. He was not regarded as a would-be Yoruba President but a would-be President of Nigeria. That is why the Yoruba people say : OGBÓN JU AGBÁRA LÓ, which means wisdom is greater than raw force.
When Awolowo chose to be leader of opposition in the Federal Parliament, after refusing to participate in a national government led by a feudalist, he was framed up in a criminal trial, in which his supposed offence was planning to overthrow the federal coalition government of NPC/NCNC by force and not for secession of the Western Region from the Federation. Violent protests in the Western Region and Lagos at that time did not contain demand for secession from Nigeria but democratic justice, that is to say, the restoration of the right of the people of the then Western Region to freely choose their own government. As we all know, the political crisis in the West led to the two military coups of January 15, 1966.
When the revenge coup of 29 July 1966 occurred it was original planned as a secession of the North from the rest of Nigeria but when the consequences of secession were made known to the ringleaders of the coup they retraced their steps. When the then Captain Murtala Mohammed wanted to take over the leadership of the country, he was effectively stopped by the Middle-belt soldiers that constituted majority of the infantries at the 2nd Battalion, Ikeja, who supported Lieutenant Colonel Yakubu Gowon, a Pankshin from the North or TIV. Colonel Adeyinka Adebayo and Brigadier Babafemi Ogundipe were shoved aside for Gowon to take over power after Ironsi. Reacting, Lieutenant Colonel Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu, demanded that seniority in army ranks should be followed in picking a successor to Ironsi, but he did not sound credible since he too superseded his seniors, by dates of Commission and promotion to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, to become Governor of the East. For instance, Lieutenant Colonels Wellington Umoh Bassey, Imo, Kurubo, Effiong, and Njoku were all senior by dates of promotions to Ojukwu in the then Eastern Region. The Yoruba of the Southwest were passive onlookers to the events of 29 July 1966 because they lacked the manpower, especially at infantry levels, to exercise any influence. Most of the killings of Igbo military officers and soldiers in Lagos and West were carried out by Middle Belt soldiers who claimed vengeance for the murders of Lieutenant Colonels Pam and Largema, who happened to be Middle-Belters. Following the continued murders of the Igbo in the North, Gowon as the Supreme Commander in a broadcast on Radio Kaduna, on October 1, 1966, condemned the massacres and appealed for an end to it on the saying that "God, in his power, has entrusted the responsibility of this great country of ours, Nigeria, to the hands of another Northerner." Professor Ochonu may not now consider himself as a Northerner, but in the past it was advantageous for his people in Benue/Plateau to identify and associate selves as Northerners because it gave scholarships and lucrative executive jobs at federal ministries and parastatals. Gowon ruled Nigeria as a Northerner for nine years and another presumed Northerner, Murtala Mohammed took over power in a bloodless coup on July 29, 1975. I say this because not many Nigerians know that the paternal origin of Murtala Mohammed was Auchi, in today's Edo state. He was overthrown in a bloody coup after six months.
In my opinion, true patriots do not need to make noise about their patriotism - Professor Moses Ebe Ochonu.
I beg to disagree. Patriotic Nigerians must shout at the top of their voices now, when the political mandate given to the APC to affect changes in the socio-political economy of Nigeria has been stolen by the old and the new PDP; when those who steal billions of naira of appropriated developmental funds are taken to courts and corrupt judges in exchange for money grant bails to national looters and adjourn cases indefinitely; when judges grant perpetual injunctions against the arrest, detention, interrogation and prosecution of treasury looters by the prosecuting and investigating authorities; and when academic migrants and nomadic intellectuals in their comfortable foreign abode create a hashtag: bring-back-our corruption because they believe that looters will spend money, through which looted funds will trickle down to okra seller on the street.
S. Kadiri
Skickat: den 7 juli 2017 09:56
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Kopia: Olayinka Agbetuyi
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
Moses Ebe Ochonu
Nigeria has many ills those of us you want to shut up also criticize the ills but also celebrate the efforts of the likes of you.
We analyze why leaders turn the country into a 'zoo' and continuously search for ways to turn it back into a non zoo like it was in the 70s. Giving up cannot be the answer; tearing up the country equally isnt as it prolongs the recovery of the severed parts that will start from the scratch.
America and western nations have their ills too.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: 'Eligius Ihewulezi' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Date: 07/07/2017 23:26 (GMT+00:00)Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
My friend shot-up you do not know what you are saying. Nigeria is a zoo and not a country. You guys over in America do not know what is going on in Nigeria simply because you find yourselves in America where leaders even if corrupt, control their excesses and think better of their subjects.
Nigerian leaders visit America and enjoy what other leaders have achieved but when they go back home they become monsters without control of their greed. Why did you come to America in the first place? Is it not because you have no hope in that zoo? Do not blame those who say the truth about Nigeria. If what they are saying will help to bring about the change you are dreaming of, well and good.
On Friday, 7 July 2017, 22:06, Olayinka Agbetuyi <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Fair enough.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Kenneth Harrow <har...@msu.edu>Date: 07/07/2017 18:48 (GMT+00:00)To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
Thanks, olayinka, a lovely answer.I agree with it, but as a dream that we must struggle to accomplish. The other side of the dream, the fear and hatred side, turns against others, as we have seen since forever. The ghanaians chased out, how many years ago? Was it 40? The ivoirians chasing out the burkinabe, and so many others. The s africans chasing out the nigerians. The americans—ohhh, don’t let’s start with whom they chased out, and what trump campaigned on. American first, deutschland uber alles, the italia that was roma, and on and on. The japanese chasing out the koreans.If we could leave to don our hats of love for homeland without turning the cap around into brexit, into get out of my own, I am with you. I will agree this is our goal, to learn how to motivate the group without building on expulsions of the scapegoat. Unfortunately, my jewish heritage has been one of 2000 years of being expelled, so it is very hard to learn the new mantra of loving oneself without mocking the goyskenKenneth HarrowDept of English and Film StudiesMichigan State University619 Red Cedar RdEast Lansing, MI 48824
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Moses Ebe Ochonu
Chicken and egg situation again! Is it the 'I love Nigeria ' attitude yhat leads to separatist agitations or the separatist agitations that provoke the "I love Nigeria" attitude?
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-------- Original message --------From: Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi...@gmail.com>Date: 07/07/2017 06:37 (GMT+00:00)To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
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Kayode,
I am from the South-East and "my calculated self-interest" does not permit me to "love" Nigeria according to your own definition of love.
Moreover, it is this attitude of people like you(the elite)that gives impetus to separatist agitations, which you and your comrades try hard to label unpatriotic!
CAO.
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Chidi Anthony Opara
CAO.
Olayinka Agbetuyi
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The cants of "I love Nigeria", always followed by veiled efforts to continue to exclusively control the common wealth helps to fuel separatist agitations.
Olayinka Agbetuyi
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (Chicken and egg situation again! Is it the 'I love Nigeria ' attitude yhat leads to separatist agitations or the separatist agitations that provoke the "I love Nigeria" attitude?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi...@gmail.com>Date: 07/07/2017 06:37 (GMT+00:00)To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
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Kayode,
I am from the South-East and "my calculated self-interest" does not permit me to "love" Nigeria according to your own definition of love.
Moreover, it is this attitude of people like you(the elite)that gives impetus to separatist agitations, which you and your comrades try hard to label unpatriotic!
CAO.
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Kenneth Harrow
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
Michigan State University
619 Red Cedar Rd
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Moses Ebe Ochonu
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”—samuel johnsonIf you love your country, don’t say so. Just do good things for it. (sort of john kennedy)KenKenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
Michigan State University
619 Red Cedar Rd
East Lansing, MI 48824
From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "meoc...@gmail.com" <meoc...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sunday, 9 July 2017 at 01:17
Moses Ebe Ochonu
Kenneth Harrow
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
Michigan State University
619 Red Cedar Rd
East Lansing, MI 48824
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Moses Ochonu
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Kenneth Harrow
Olayinka Agbetuyi
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Moses Ochonu
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Salimonu Kadiri
No, Olyinka Agbetuyi, if patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, then the scoundrels are the global leaders (G20) who divide the world into nations of developed and underdeveloped countries.
S. Kadiri
Funmi Tofowomo Okelola
Salimonu Kadiri
Olayinka Agbetuyi,
I read the following with dismay: Without the SNC, OPC, Oduduwa Republic struggle, the two major parties in 1999 would have ceded their tickets to Yoruba candidates, would they? The 1999 election was an all-Yoruba contest. Why? Why do you think the elders you mentioned pleaded with Obasanjo, a Yoruba, to run?- Professor Moses Ebe Ochonu.
It was Abubakar Rimi who first challenged the ceding of the PDP presidential candidate to the South (mark you, not to the Southwest) as undemocratic. In the PDP Presidential primary of 1999, Alex Ekwueme and Abubakar Rimi contested against Obasanjo, but lost. A substantial part of power brokers in the North who were against Abacha wanted someone in the South they could trust and that person was Obasanjo because as a military ruler he handed power to a Northerner in the controversial Presidential election of 1979 in which two-third of nineteen was approximated to twelve in order to make Shagari President. The remnants of Abacha formed the ANPP to oppose PDP and their Presidential Obasanjo who Abacha had put in jail but released and pardoned after Abacha's death. The ANPP ceded their Presidential candidate to the South and chose Olu Falae, a Yoruba, to counter Obasanjo. Simple logic dictates that if Alex Ekwueme had won the PDP Presidential primary against Obasanjo, ANPP would also have picked its Presidential candidate from the Southeast. It is mere babble to attribute that to SNC, OPC and Oduduwa Republic struggle. If the candidacy of Obasanjo as presidential candidate in 1999 was an appeasement of the Yoruba because of June 12, 1993, the Yoruba ought to have voted for him en-mass since the pillars of ANPP were distinctively associated with Abacha who had imprisoned both Abiola and Obasanjo. As it occurred, Obasanjo did not win even in his own polling district while Falae's ANPP won the Presidential poll in the Southwest with the support of AD. In 1999 and against the wish of the people of Southwest, Obasanjo won the Presidential election with votes from the North, South-south and Southeast. And because of Obasanjo's hostilities against the Yoruba during his era, combined with the domination of his administration by people of the Southeast, the newspaper, Nation, traced his paternal origin to Onitsha.
S. Kadiri
Chidi Anthony Opara
CAO.
Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
I seriously object to your thoughtless analogy. You are simply giving some folks a whip to beat you with.
If Nigeria is a zoo then you are an animal- by inference. I don't think that this is really what you have in mind. I humbly suggest that we should engage in intellectual discourse and try to use appropriate points of reference. Recently Stiglitz basically
called the US a rogue state.Such a concept focuses on the institutions and the administration rather than the generality of people associated with the nation-state.
Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 5:56 PM
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Olayinka Agbetuyi
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I read the following with dismay: Without the SNC, OPC, Oduduwa Republic struggle, the two major parties in 1999 would have ceded their tickets to Yoruba candidates, would they? The 1999 election was an all-Yoruba contest. Why? Why do you think the elders you mentioned pleaded with Obasanjo, a Yoruba, to run?- Professor Moses Ebe Ochonu.
It was Abubakar Rimi who first challenged the ceding of the PDP presidential candidate to the South (mark you, not to the Southwest) as undemocratic. In the PDP Presidential primary of 1999, Alex Ekwueme and Abubakar Rimi contested against Obasanjo, but lost. A substantial part of power brokers in the North who were against Abacha wanted someone in the South they could trust and that person was Obasanjo because as a military ruler he handed power to a Northerner in the controversial Presidential election of 1979 in which two-third of nineteen was approximated to twelve in order to make Shagari President. The remnants of Abacha formed the ANPP to oppose PDP and their Presidential Obasanjo who Abacha had put in jail but released and pardoned after Abacha's death. The ANPP ceded their Presidential candidate to the South and chose Olu Falae, a Yoruba, to counter Obasanjo. Simple logic dictates that if Alex Ekwueme had won the PDP Presidential primary against Obasanjo, ANPP would also have picked its Presidential candidate from the Southeast. It is mere babble to attribute that to SNC, OPC and Oduduwa Republic struggle. If the candidacy of Obasanjo as presidential candidate in 1999 was an appeasement of the Yoruba because of June 12, 1993, the Yoruba ought to have voted for him en-mass since the pillars of ANPP were distinctively associated with Abacha who had imprisoned both Abiola and Obasanjo. As it occurred, Obasanjo did not win even in his own polling district while Falae's ANPP won the Presidential poll in the Southwest with the support of AD. In 1999 and against the wish of the people of Southwest, Obasanjo won the Presidential election with votes from the North, South-south and Southeast. And because of Obasanjo's hostilities against the Yoruba during his era, combined with the domination of his administration by people of the Southeast, the newspaper, Nation, traced his paternal origin to Onitsha.
S. Kadiri
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Olayinka Agbetuyi
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (No, Olyinka Agbetuyi, if patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, then the scoundrels are the global leaders (G20) who divide the world into nations of developed and underdeveloped countries.
S. Kadiri
Moses Ebe Ochonu
Olayinka Agbetuyi
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Kayode J. Fakinlede
I love Nigeria because I am a Nigerian. I was born there and I have lived a better part of my life there. And I will not stand by while a person calls my country, or for that matter, any country, a zoo, or many of the unprintable words that some people use.
The fact that I was born there, is enough reason to
love my homeland. I have said that I love Nigeria, warts and all because I
know that it indeed harbors quite a lot of warts. This does not make me love
Nigeria less.
As a child, I was one of those few who
were afforded a secondary education in a private school in Nigeria, and that
was when secondary education could only be paid for with the sweat and tears of
our parents. My tertiary education
thenceforth was neither paid for by the federal government nor financed by my
the state government. However, I have continued to appreciate the bit that
Nigeria was able to contribute to my development.
In all my years, I have witnessed Nigeria undergo tremendous developments, engendered by individual efforts, in many areas; and seen many areas of retrogression, spearheaded by the governments we put in place. In my little ways, I have praised Nigeria for, and contributed to, those developments. I have also played my own liitle part in criticizing those government officials.
Yes, I am from the Southwestern part of Nigeria. However, I do not earn my living as a government official, neither do my children or grandchildren. The sufferings of any Nigerian, wherever he is from, concerns me and I think about ways to improve the lot of every Nigerian.
It is not everytime a person declares his patriotism for his homeland that he is looking for ways to steal from it. It may just be an appreciation for many things in the past that the country has done for him.
That love may also come from the fact that one wishes to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.
I clearly see Biafranists as part of the problem of making Nigeria a better place for 180 million of us since they do not contribute to ways of making Nigeria a better place but are looking for ways to tear it apart.
Moses Ebe Ochonu
Moses:
I would start from where you concluded:
Solving the source of centrifugal tendencies is in this instance the cause of declaration of patriotism:
This in semiotics discourse is Roland Barthes answer of erecting a myth as a counter point to demolish another myth. A propaganda war is being waged against the countrys survival (propaganda and its effect was a central part of my first graduate studies.)
Standing aloof in elitist self righteousness would not do since the success of that propaganda offensive will inevitably affect you as the Nazi propaganda offensive affected the whole German citizenry.
I have revisited critically Kens quote which you shied away from because of its literalism because the context in which a dictum was originally used indicates its effectiveness in other scenarios:
There clearly would be contexts in which patriotism would not be the last refuge of the scoundrel as in when Britain had to take a last stand against Hitler and as in when Obasanjo asked Soyinka to bear a message to Victor Banjo that he swore an oath to defend Lagos and that over his dead body would Banjo march his 'Libration' troops successfully to capture Lagos.
Yes, I know northerners fairly as well as you do and I know they are quite as emotional as you portray them and want to see their own ALWAYS participating at the highest level of governance to reassure them they are not being short changed by the ways of westernization by southerners who they admit understand the ways more than they do ( these realities were behind my triumviral presidency formulation after June 12 1993. Shehu Y' Ardua arguably the closest to IBB among those jostling for power then said Aare Abiola knew he, Shehu, worked for him for June 12. He then offered the give away that a key part of the North was not represented in the prospective government, implying that was why he supported IBBs annulment.
Abiola had Kingibe from the rival undefeated part of the North -the Kanuri- as his running mate over the North Westhome of the pre-eminent Caliphate. Hence the subsequent 6 zone rotation put in place)
Yes I have noted in the past few weeks that the first electoral victory by Jonathan was attended by riots in the North. If Jonathan won a second term then he would rule for 10 yrs instead of the 8 constitutionally approved. The North would not stand for that. It would be seen as a calculated attempt to impose westernization pell mell on the North. Note that as from the time of the nations founders the issue has not been whether the North westernizes or not but how soon and how quickly.
This above explains what you noticed in the patriotic swings of your northern interlocutors whom I have no doubt you reported accurately. It is again a question of patriotism, which nation? A nation is the agglomeration of peoples and their distinctive ways. All of this (despite cynisism by detractors) buttresses the Freudian theory of libidinal ties between leader and led as propounded for the commander in chief and his troops.
It again underscores the fact that among the various types of government identified by Montesquiue Nigeria is a democratic despotism unlike the Greek city state democracy. It should be ruled like Rome with its Western and Eastern Caesars who are primus inter pares NOT like the United States with only one president upholding a large Anglospheric culture (given its historical antecedents) with a diminutive melting pot of other cultures. Hence triumviral presidency as a prototype of such model.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Moses Ebe Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com>
Date: 10/07/2017 16:41 (GMT+00:00)To: USAAfricaDialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
Oga Malami,
First of all Idomaland is NOT marginalized "at the center" as you claimed. I assume that you're using the conventional Nigerian definition of marginalization, which rests on federal visibility, appointments, etc. If that assumption is correct then you're way off. Since 1999, Idomaland has been disproportionately visible at the federal level relative to their size (even in Benue we're a minority). Every government since 1999 has had Idoma ministers; the've been service chiefs, presidential advisers, etc. David Mark, an Idoma, was senate president for 8 years. The current government has an Idoma as minister of agriculture, and an Idoma, Air Vice Marshall Morgan, as Chief of Defense Staff. That is not marginalization by Nigeria's definition of the term. As you can see, if I was seduced or susceptible to the Nigerian patriotism rhetoric, which tends to correspond to these shifting indicators of visibility and marginality, I should be singing along with Fakinlede and others about my patriotism. However, as I stated, my aversion to patriotism has nothing to do with these indicators. How I feel about Nigeria is independent of who gets what position or appointment. I am more concerned with structural issues and fundamental questions of Nigeria's lingering dysfunction. Besides, as I stated, I've harbored an intellectual and philosophical disdain for patriotism since my days in graduate school. That was a long time ago. I evolved intellectually into that conviction. As a historian, I know what appeals to patriotic sentiments have done to humanity. Hitler, Mussolini, and others came out of different types of appeals to patriotism.
Also, as a historian, I'm trained to recognize and make sense of patterns. This is very useful especially since, as historians, we deal with the longue duree, the long term. We interpret the present in light of the past. I gave several examples from several regions, including mine, of shifts in patriotic sentiments, sometimes dramatic ones, that correspond to the region's dwindling or rising socioeconomic and political fortunes within the union. You have not faulted that analysis. No one on this thread has. I may be wrong about individual's motives but not about groups.'
Let me even go ahead and add another dramatic example. As you know, my primary research constituency is Northern Nigeria, especially Hausaphone Northern Nigeria, where you come from. As a result of this interest and my upbringing in Hausaphone Northern Nigeria, my social and intellectual circle is dominated by Hausa people, broadly defined, as is my social media community. This gives me daily access to the Northern and Hausa political mind (this is problematic I know, but I'm taking liberties here). In the period leading to the 2015 elections, one of the most shocking things I encountered is the number of Hausa-Fulani Northerners, long stereotyped in Northern Nigerian political discourse as people invested in one Nigeria and adamantly opposed to separatism, who were saying openly on my social media feed and even in a few private conversations that they had lost faith in Nigeria and wanted the country to break. Most of them were and still are supporters of Buhari, who was a candidate at that time. Then, most expert projections indicated that Jonathan, by legal or crooked means, would wrangle a second term. Many of these people were saying that they no longer believed in Nigeria, that in fact all that the Hausa people get out of Nigeria was poverty and insult and that they wanted a separate country where they would be free from being blamed for Nigeria's problems without seeing much benefit. They were fierce separatists. Fast forward to 2016 and 2017. These same interlocutors, barely two years after Buhari became president, have become the biggest advocates of patriotism and Nigeria's nationalist pride. They consistently wax patriotic when commenting on Biafra, Niger Delta, and other centrifugal agitations. I am simultaneously amused and enlightened by this dramatic shift. In two years, Northern separatists who wanted out of Nigeria had somehow rediscovered the beauty and benefits of one Nigeria, of patriotism and loyalty to country. You don't need a rocket scientist to tell you that their separatist agitation had been informed by their sense that power and the ability to distribute the national cake had been denied the North, and that their rediscovery of patriotism is a function of Buhari's ascendancy to the presidency.
This is further evidence of my theory of these ebbs and flows of patriotic and centrifugal sentiments and how they correspond to the vagaries of politics.
My reference to "crude literalism" is a general reference to trends I've noticed in recent time on the listserv, not to the participants on this thread or their contributions. But I think that the reaction to the quote posted by Ken (patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel) vindicates me in my earlier caution, in my fear that the quote was a prime candidate for a crudely literalist interpretation.
Finally, I wish I could claim the credit you're extending to me, that of having discouraged potential patriotic declarations from other members of the list. I'm flattered but I am not that persuasive, my friend. I think that, like me, most folks are and should be suspicious of loud patriotic invocation and tend to scrutinize its motive, timing, and objective. In fact I suspect that you yourself haven't joined the chorus precisely because of your own intellectual trepidation about such vulgar displays of patriotism sentiments. Finally, I think that most people would rather confront and solve the causes of centrifugal and separatist agitations than respond to them with ineffectual, escapist declarations of their patriotism.
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
What do you call a country where people from one section have freedom to kill others at will and get away with it as the govt struggle to protect their interests using the nation's resources?
Moses:
I would start from where you concluded:
Solving the source of centrifugal tendencies is in this instance the cause of declaration of patriotism:
This in semiotics discourse is Roland Barthes answer of erecting a myth as a counter point to demolish another myth. A propaganda war is being waged against the countrys survival (propaganda and its effect was a central part of my first graduate studies.)
Standing aloof in elitist self righteousness would not do since the success of that propaganda offensive will inevitably affect you as the Nazi propaganda offensive affected the whole German citizenry.
I have revisited critically Kens quote which you shied away from because of its literalism because the context in which a dictum was originally used indicates its effectiveness in other scenarios:
There clearly would be contexts in which patriotism would not be the last refuge of the scoundrel as in when Britain had to take a last stand against Hitler and as in when Obasanjo asked Soyinka to bear a message to Victor Banjo that he swore an oath to defend Lagos and that over his dead body would Banjo march his 'Libration' troops successfully to capture Lagos.
Yes, I know northerners fairly as well as you do and I know they are quite as emotional as you portray them and want to see their own ALWAYS participating at the highest level of governance to reassure them they are not being short changed by the ways of westernization by southerners who they admit understand the ways more than they do ( these realities were behind my triumviral presidency formulation after June 12 1993. Shehu Y' Ardua arguably the closest to IBB among those jostling for power then said Aare Abiola knew he, Shehu, worked for him for June 12. He then offered the give away that a key part of the North was not represented in the prospective government, implying that was why he supported IBBs annulment.
Abiola had Kingibe from the rival undefeated part of the North -the Kanuri- as his running mate over the North Westhome of the pre-eminent Caliphate. Hence the subsequent 6 zone rotation put in place)
Yes I have noted in the past few weeks that the first electoral victory by Jonathan was attended by riots in the North. If Jonathan won a second term then he would rule for 10 yrs instead of the 8 constitutionally approved. The North would not stand for that. It would be seen as a calculated attempt to impose westernization pell mell on the North. Note that as from the time of the nations founders the issue has not been whether the North westernizes or not but how soon and how quickly.
This above explains what you noticed in the patriotic swings of your northern interlocutors whom I have no doubt you reported accurately. It is again a question of patriotism, which nation? A nation is the agglomeration of peoples and their distinctive ways. All of this (despite cynisism by detractors) buttresses the Freudian theory of libidinal ties between leader and led as propounded for the commander in chief and his troops.
It again underscores the fact that among the various types of government identified by Montesquiue Nigeria is a democratic despotism unlike the Greek city state democracy. It should be ruled like Rome with its Western and Eastern Caesars who are primus inter pares NOT like the United States with only one president upholding a large Anglospheric culture (given its historical antecedents) with a diminutive melting pot of other cultures. Hence triumviral presidency as a prototype of such model.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------
From: Moses Ebe Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com>Date: 10/07/2017 16:41 (GMT+00:00)To: USAAfricaDialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
Oga Malami,
First of all Idomaland is NOT marginalized "at the center" as you claimed. I assume that you're using the conventional Nigerian definition of marginalization, which rests on federal visibility, appointments, etc. If that assumption is correct then you're way off. Since 1999, Idomaland has been disproportionately visible at the federal level relative to their size (even in Benue we're a minority). Every government since 1999 has had Idoma ministers; the've been service chiefs, presidential advisers, etc. David Mark, an Idoma, was senate president for 8 years. The current government has an Idoma as minister of agriculture, and an Idoma, Air Vice Marshall Morgan, as Chief of Defense Staff. That is not marginalization by Nigeria's definition of the term. As you can see, if I was seduced or susceptible to the Nigerian patriotism rhetoric, which tends to correspond to these shifting indicators of visibility and marginality, I should be singing along with Fakinlede and others about my patriotism. However, as I stated, my aversion to patriotism has nothing to do with these indicators. How I feel about Nigeria is independent of who gets what position or appointment. I am more concerned with structural issues and fundamental questions of Nigeria's lingering dysfunction. Besides, as I stated, I've harbored an intellectual and philosophical disdain for patriotism since my days in graduate school. That was a long time ago. I evolved intellectually into that conviction. As a historian, I know what appeals to patriotic sentiments have done to humanity. Hitler, Mussolini, and others came out of different types of appeals to patriotism.
Also, as a historian, I'm trained to recognize and make sense of patterns. This is very useful especially since, as historians, we deal with the longue duree, the long term. We interpret the present in light of the past. I gave several examples from several regions, including mine, of shifts in patriotic sentiments, sometimes dramatic ones, that correspond to the region's dwindling or rising socioeconomic and political fortunes within the union. You have not faulted that analysis. No one on this thread has. I may be wrong about individual's motives but not about groups.'
Let me even go ahead and add another dramatic example. As you know, my primary research constituency is Northern Nigeria, especially Hausaphone Northern Nigeria, where you come from. As a result of this interest and my upbringing in Hausaphone Northern Nigeria, my social and intellectual circle is dominated by Hausa people, broadly defined, as is my social media community. This gives me daily access to the Northern and Hausa political mind (this is problematic I know, but I'm taking liberties here). In the period leading to the 2015 elections, one of the most shocking things I encountered is the number of Hausa-Fulani Northerners, long stereotyped in Northern Nigerian political discourse as people invested in one Nigeria and adamantly opposed to separatism, who were saying openly on my social media feed and even in a few private conversations that they had lost faith in Nigeria and wanted the country to break. Most of them were and still are supporters of Buhari, who was a candidate at that time. Then, most expert projections indicated that Jonathan, by legal or crooked means, would wrangle a second term. Many of these people were saying that they no longer believed in Nigeria, that in fact all that the Hausa people get out of Nigeria was poverty and insult and that they wanted a separate country where they would be free from being blamed for Nigeria's problems without seeing much benefit. They were fierce separatists. Fast forward to 2016 and 2017. These same interlocutors, barely two years after Buhari became president, have become the biggest advocates of patriotism and Nigeria's nationalist pride. They consistently wax patriotic when commenting on Biafra, Niger Delta, and other centrifugal agitations. I am simultaneously amused and enlightened by this dramatic shift. In two years, Northern separatists who wanted out of Nigeria had somehow rediscovered the beauty and benefits of one Nigeria, of patriotism and loyalty to country. You don't need a rocket scientist to tell you that their separatist agitation had been informed by their sense that power and the ability to distribute the national cake had been denied the North, and that their rediscovery of patriotism is a function of Buhari's ascendancy to the presidency.
This is further evidence of my theory of these ebbs and flows of patriotic and centrifugal sentiments and how they correspond to the vagaries of politics.
My reference to "crude literalism" is a general reference to trends I've noticed in recent time on the listserv, not to the participants on this thread or their contributions. But I think that the reaction to the quote posted by Ken (patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel) vindicates me in my earlier caution, in my fear that the quote was a prime candidate for a crudely literalist interpretation.
Finally, I wish I could claim the credit you're extending to me, that of having discouraged potential patriotic declarations from other members of the list. I'm flattered but I am not that persuasive, my friend. I think that, like me, most folks are and should be suspicious of loud patriotic invocation and tend to scrutinize its motive, timing, and objective. In fact I suspect that you yourself haven't joined the chorus precisely because of your own intellectual trepidation about such vulgar displays of patriotism sentiments. Finally, I think that most people would rather confront and solve the causes of centrifugal and separatist agitations than respond to them with ineffectual, escapist declarations of their patriotism.
Kayode J. Fakinlede
Mr. Adepoju,
Concerning your question:
What do you call a country where people from one section have freedom to kill others at will and get away with it as the govt struggle to protect their interests using the nation's resources?
I was thinking you were talking about White policemen killing black youths in America; or is it Stalin’s Russia, or Mao’s and Chiang Kai-shek’s China, or may be Queen Mary’s England where I presume you live. Or is it Israel, the birthplace of Jesus Christ; or may be we should digress a bit, may be you are talking about Julius Ceaser’s Roman Empire or Hitler’s Third Reich, Mussolini's Italy, or Franco's Spain or I think I am a bit cockeyed. You must definitely be referring to the American Civil war or the almost complete anihilation of American Indians OR, do you want me to continue? Or may be you read the Old Testament of the Bible or perhaps some other Holy Book. Also, please take a minute and consider what history is even about. Could it be about wars and conquests?
Let me see, if Nigeria is a zoo, these other countries must be game reserves.
Nobody should get killed. The killing of even one person is one person too many. This is why many older Nigerians are telling you that the path we are treading will definitely lead to war – and you know, many people will get killed.
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 2:43:38 PM UTC+1, Kayode J. Fakinlede wrote:
Kayode J. Fakinlede
1. You state that "a propaganda war is being waged against the country's survival" and then you imply that the country has to be defended against these people you describe as propagandists. I couldn't disagree more.
2. My disagreement is multifaceted.
3.
Sir, what do you disagree with? Is it the fact that a propaganda war is being waged, or the country should not be defended? Are you saying that a propagada war is not being waged or that we should not defend our country against it if it is true?
4. You seem to believe that there is something intrinsically worthy of being defended in the nation-state.
5.
Sir, are you talking about all nation-states or Nigeria in particular? Are you saying that no nation-state should be defended against any form of aggression, external or internal? That is, the collection of people you defined later in this article should not defend themselves against any form of aggresion?
6. Unlike you, I'm not such a believer in the nation-state as an inherently valuable political commodity. You say "propagandists" are waging a war against Nigeria's survival. To which I say, so what--assuming that this is even true.
7. If propagandists are waging war against Nigeria, and you say so what? Are you saying that Nigerians should not defend thenselves even if it is true that a propagandist’s war is being waged against them? Or are you saying that there is nothing like a propagandist’s war. Since you in particular are not a believer in the nation state as a political commodity, are you saying that the rest of us should then take your belief system as a matter of faith?
8.
9. If the nation-state is so fragile as to collapse because of what you describe as the "propaganda" of some of its citizens then it is not a worthy political configuration to begin with and is definitely not worth defending.
10. I was thinking the main reason why you want to defend something really is because of its fragility and that you are trying to defend it against all forms of enemies so it can be strong. Appareently you see it otherwise. A chick is not worthy of being defended against the kite by its mother because, you know, if if cannot defend itself, it should not exist in the first place
11.
12. Besides, with all the resources and apparatuses of counter propaganda, surveillance, and informational warfare available to the Nigerian state, does it need you and I to defend it or ensure its survival against "propagandists"?
13. I was thinking it is you and me (and 180 million others) that make up what we call the Nigerian state? But you say Nigeria, which is you and me do not need us to defend itself. And your reason is because we (you and I and 180 million others) do not need to defend ourdelves in order to ensure its survival against the propagandists
14.
15. I am obviously not as invested in the idea of the nation-state as you are, not only because of its recency as a unit of political organization but also because of its deployment in many places as instruments of oppression and as a way to deny people their legitimate rights to self-determination.
16. Are there places where the nation-state are not defined as instruments of oppresion, or is this a necessary requirement of the existenc of a nation-state a possibility th. Is there a posibility that a nation-state mey work towards a more perfect union pr is this just a mirage?
17.
18. There is absolutely nothing sacrosanct or intrinsically praise-worthy about the Nigerian nation-state or any other nation-state for that matter. The nation-state is an empty sign, having no meaning of its own outside its human relational content. It is the relationships that people within its territorial borders forge among themselves and the benefits they derive therefrom that give it meaning.
19. Apparently then the nation-state has some meaning: it is the relationships that people within ITS borders forge among themselves AND the BENEFITS therefrom - your words. The Nigeria nation-state, therefore has these intentions for its existence and that IS the reason why we, who believe in it are trying to defend it from PROPAGANDIST’S AND BIAFRANISTS.
20.
21. Outside of these relational benefits, the nation-state is an empty, haughty, jealous entity that tyrannically stifles alternative and rival political imaginations. A nation-state is only as valuable as the investments people make in it and the benefits they derive from it.
22. A nation state IS as valuable as the INVESTMENTS people make in it and the benefits they derive from it – CORRECT.
23.
24. If people no longer find it useful as a vessel for achieving their aspirations or no longer find the human associations that it engenders useful, what good is that nation-state and why is it worth defending,
25. I presume you are talking about Nigeria here. What evidence do you have to come to this conclusion? The propaganda of the Biafranists or the daily give and ttake that go on among ALL Nigerians?
26.
27. especially if by "defending" it you're challenging the legitimate rights of citizens to imagine their political futures elsewhere? This idea of defending the nation against internal enemies (you call them propagandists) is as dangerous as I've ever heard. It is a recipe for tyranny, oppression, and the silencing of oppositional and centrifugal agitations.
Are you implying that a nation-state cannot have internal enemies or that a nation-state should not defend itself against it? Any defense against thieves, robbers, bribe takers, terrorists, propagandists are supposed to be seen as a recipe for tyranny?
2. The people you call propagandists against the Nigerian nation are far from that in my opinion. They are agitators, whose grievances and centrifugal and separatist agitations are legitimate in a democracy and are legalized by all known international legal precepts governing the right to self-determination.
And therefore we who have a different opinion about our country should just give them a free pass?
To label or rename them propagandists against the country or as people who are attacking the country's survival is to delegitimize and even criminalize them.
I thought if you declared that you you want to tear a nation or anything apart, you are an enmy of that country. Is there any other definition for enmity?
They sure are not expressing love for Nigeria.
Why is the country's survival more important to you than the rights and aspirations of the peoples who constitute it?
What????!!!!!
A state that is afraid of dissent and alternative political imaginations is an inherently weak state that is probably better off dissolving. What you're advancing is the stuff of fascism and dictatorship. When you imply that we have to defend the nation against the attack of propagandists, you are casting the agitators as external to the country, as internal enemies. You are Othering them. What is your locus standi for doing that? Other than expressing their discontent and dissatisfaction with the union and aspiring to control their own destinies either as separate nations or as autonomous units within the nation, what crime have they committed? Dissent and agitations should be welcomed in a democracy and in a nation state. They're a useful gauge of how functional and dysfunctional the union is or has become. Besides, history has shown that hostility to such agitations only makes them worse because they go underground, fester, and emerge in bigger, more disruptive forms. I appreciate people who acknowledge the dysfunctional union and make rational arguments about 1) how the dysfunction should be addressed, and 2) the benefits of preserving the union in a more equitable and acceptable way. Soyinka just put out an essay in Newsweek, in which he celebrates the centrifugal agitations as reflecting the ills of a mortally diseased union and then pivots to make the case for Nigeria's continuity as a reconstructed federated union.
Most Nigerians probably agree with Soyinka but that is not the intention of the Biafranists. They are sworn enemies of the cintinues existence of Nigeria. You cannot possibly be rooting for them
Olayinka Agbetuyi
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (What do you call a country where people from one section have freedom to kill others at will and get away with it as the govt struggle to protect their interests using the nation's resources?
Moses:
I would start from where you concluded:
Solving the source of centrifugal tendencies is in this instance the cause of declaration of patriotism:
This in semiotics discourse is Roland Barthes answer of erecting a myth as a counter point to demolish another myth. A propaganda war is being waged against the countrys survival (propaganda and its effect was a central part of my first graduate studies.)
Standing aloof in elitist self righteousness would not do since the success of that propaganda offensive will inevitably affect you as the Nazi propaganda offensive affected the whole German citizenry.
I have revisited critically Kens quote which you shied away from because of its literalism because the context in which a dictum was originally used indicates its effectiveness in other scenarios:
There clearly would be contexts in which patriotism would not be the last refuge of the scoundrel as in when Britain had to take a last stand against Hitler and as in when Obasanjo asked Soyinka to bear a message to Victor Banjo that he swore an oath to defend Lagos and that over his dead body would Banjo march his 'Libration' troops successfully to capture Lagos.
Yes, I know northerners fairly as well as you do and I know they are quite as emotional as you portray them and want to see their own ALWAYS participating at the highest level of governance to reassure them they are not being short changed by the ways of westernization by southerners who they admit understand the ways more than they do ( these realities were behind my triumviral presidency formulation after June 12 1993. Shehu Y' Ardua arguably the closest to IBB among those jostling for power then said Aare Abiola knew he, Shehu, worked for him for June 12. He then offered the give away that a key part of the North was not represented in the prospective government, implying that was why he supported IBBs annulment.
Abiola had Kingibe from the rival undefeated part of the North -the Kanuri- as his running mate over the North Westhome of the pre-eminent Caliphate. Hence the subsequent 6 zone rotation put in place)
Yes I have noted in the past few weeks that the first electoral victory by Jonathan was attended by riots in the North. If Jonathan won a second term then he would rule for 10 yrs instead of the 8 constitutionally approved. The North would not stand for that. It would be seen as a calculated attempt to impose westernization pell mell on the North. Note that as from the time of the nations founders the issue has not been whether the North westernizes or not but how soon and how quickly.
This above explains what you noticed in the patriotic swings of your northern interlocutors whom I have no doubt you reported accurately. It is again a question of patriotism, which nation? A nation is the agglomeration of peoples and their distinctive ways. All of this (despite cynisism by detractors) buttresses the Freudian theory of libidinal ties between leader and led as propounded for the commander in chief and his troops.
It again underscores the fact that among the various types of government identified by Montesquiue Nigeria is a democratic despotism unlike the Greek city state democracy. It should be ruled like Rome with its Western and Eastern Caesars who are primus inter pares NOT like the United States with only one president upholding a large Anglospheric culture (given its historical antecedents) with a diminutive melting pot of other cultures. Hence triumviral presidency as a prototype of such model.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------
From: Moses Ebe Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com>Date: 10/07/2017 16:41 (GMT+00:00)To: USAAfricaDialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
Oga Malami,
First of all Idomaland is NOT marginalized "at the center" as you claimed. I assume that you're using the conventional Nigerian definition of marginalization, which rests on federal visibility, appointments, etc. If that assumption is correct then you're way off. Since 1999, Idomaland has been disproportionately visible at the federal level relative to their size (even in Benue we're a minority). Every government since 1999 has had Idoma ministers; the've been service chiefs, presidential advisers, etc. David Mark, an Idoma, was senate president for 8 years. The current government has an Idoma as minister of agriculture, and an Idoma, Air Vice Marshall Morgan, as Chief of Defense Staff. That is not marginalization by Nigeria's definition of the term. As you can see, if I was seduced or susceptible to the Nigerian patriotism rhetoric, which tends to correspond to these shifting indicators of visibility and marginality, I should be singing along with Fakinlede and others about my patriotism. However, as I stated, my aversion to patriotism has nothing to do with these indicators. How I feel about Nigeria is independent of who gets what position or appointment. I am more concerned with structural issues and fundamental questions of Nigeria's lingering dysfunction. Besides, as I stated, I've harbored an intellectual and philosophical disdain for patriotism since my days in graduate school. That was a long time ago. I evolved intellectually into that conviction. As a historian, I know what appeals to patriotic sentiments have done to humanity. Hitler, Mussolini, and others came out of different types of appeals to patriotism.
Also, as a historian, I'm trained to recognize and make sense of patterns. This is very useful especially since, as historians, we deal with the longue duree, the long term. We interpret the present in light of the past. I gave several examples from several regions, including mine, of shifts in patriotic sentiments, sometimes dramatic ones, that correspond to the region's dwindling or rising socioeconomic and political fortunes within the union. You have not faulted that analysis. No one on this thread has. I may be wrong about individual's motives but not about groups.'
Let me even go ahead and add another dramatic example. As you know, my primary research constituency is Northern Nigeria, especially Hausaphone Northern Nigeria, where you come from. As a result of this interest and my upbringing in Hausaphone Northern Nigeria, my social and intellectual circle is dominated by Hausa people, broadly defined, as is my social media community. This gives me daily access to the Northern and Hausa political mind (this is problematic I know, but I'm taking liberties here). In the period leading to the 2015 elections, one of the most shocking things I encountered is the number of Hausa-Fulani Northerners, long stereotyped in Northern Nigerian political discourse as people invested in one Nigeria and adamantly opposed to separatism, who were saying openly on my social media feed and even in a few private conversations that they had lost faith in Nigeria and wanted the country to break. Most of them were and still are supporters of Buhari, who was a candidate at that time. Then, most expert projections indicated that Jonathan, by legal or crooked means, would wrangle a second term. Many of these people were saying that they no longer believed in Nigeria, that in fact all that the Hausa people get out of Nigeria was poverty and insult and that they wanted a separate country where they would be free from being blamed for Nigeria's problems without seeing much benefit. They were fierce separatists. Fast forward to 2016 and 2017. These same interlocutors, barely two years after Buhari became president, have become the biggest advocates of patriotism and Nigeria's nationalist pride. They consistently wax patriotic when commenting on Biafra, Niger Delta, and other centrifugal agitations. I am simultaneously amused and enlightened by this dramatic shift. In two years, Northern separatists who wanted out of Nigeria had somehow rediscovered the beauty and benefits of one Nigeria, of patriotism and loyalty to country. You don't need a rocket scientist to tell you that their separatist agitation had been informed by their sense that power and the ability to distribute the national cake had been denied the North, and that their rediscovery of patriotism is a function of Buhari's ascendancy to the presidency.
This is further evidence of my theory of these ebbs and flows of patriotic and centrifugal sentiments and how they correspond to the vagaries of politics.
My reference to "crude literalism" is a general reference to trends I've noticed in recent time on the listserv, not to the participants on this thread or their contributions. But I think that the reaction to the quote posted by Ken (patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel) vindicates me in my earlier caution, in my fear that the quote was a prime candidate for a crudely literalist interpretation.
Finally, I wish I could claim the credit you're extending to me, that of having discouraged potential patriotic declarations from other members of the list. I'm flattered but I am not that persuasive, my friend. I think that, like me, most folks are and should be suspicious of loud patriotic invocation and tend to scrutinize its motive, timing, and objective. In fact I suspect that you yourself haven't joined the chorus precisely because of your own intellectual trepidation about such vulgar displays of patriotism sentiments. Finally, I think that most people would rather confront and solve the causes of centrifugal and separatist agitations than respond to them with ineffectual, escapist declarations of their patriotism.
Olayinka Agbetuyi
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (Moses:
I would start from where you concluded:
Solving the source of centrifugal tendencies is in this instance the cause of declaration of patriotism:
This in semiotics discourse is Roland Barthes answer of erecting a myth as a counter point to demolish another myth. A propaganda war is being waged against the countrys survival (propaganda and its effect was a central part of my first graduate studies.)
Standing aloof in elitist self righteousness would not do since the success of that propaganda offensive will inevitably affect you as the Nazi propaganda offensive affected the whole German citizenry.
I have revisited critically Kens quote which you shied away from because of its literalism because the context in which a dictum was originally used indicates its effectiveness in other scenarios:
There clearly would be contexts in which patriotism would not be the last refuge of the scoundrel as in when Britain had to take a last stand against Hitler and as in when Obasanjo asked Soyinka to bear a message to Victor Banjo that he swore an oath to defend Lagos and that over his dead body would Banjo march his 'Libration' troops successfully to capture Lagos.
Yes, I know northerners fairly as well as you do and I know they are quite as emotional as you portray them and want to see their own ALWAYS participating at the highest level of governance to reassure them they are not being short changed by the ways of westernization by southerners who they admit understand the ways more than they do ( these realities were behind my triumviral presidency formulation after June 12 1993. Shehu Y' Ardua arguably the closest to IBB among those jostling for power then said Aare Abiola knew he, Shehu, worked for him for June 12. He then offered the give away that a key part of the North was not represented in the prospective government, implying that was why he supported IBBs annulment.
Abiola had Kingibe from the rival undefeated part of the North -the Kanuri- as his running mate over the North Westhome of the pre-eminent Caliphate. Hence the subsequent 6 zone rotation put in place)
Yes I have noted in the past few weeks that the first electoral victory by Jonathan was attended by riots in the North. If Jonathan won a second term then he would rule for 10 yrs instead of the 8 constitutionally approved. The North would not stand for that. It would be seen as a calculated attempt to impose westernization pell mell on the North. Note that as from the time of the nations founders the issue has not been whether the North westernizes or not but how soon and how quickly.
This above explains what you noticed in the patriotic swings of your northern interlocutors whom I have no doubt you reported accurately. It is again a question of patriotism, which nation? A nation is the agglomeration of peoples and their distinctive ways. All of this (despite cynisism by detractors) buttresses the Freudian theory of libidinal ties between leader and led as propounded for the commander in chief and his troops.
It again underscores the fact that among the various types of government identified by Montesquiue Nigeria is a democratic despotism unlike the Greek city state democracy. It should be ruled like Rome with its Western and Eastern Caesars who are primus inter pares NOT like the United States with only one president upholding a large Anglospheric culture (given its historical antecedents) with a diminutive melting pot of other cultures. Hence triumviral presidency as a prototype of such model.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Moses Ebe Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com>
Date: 10/07/2017 16:41 (GMT+00:00)To: USAAfricaDialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
Oga Malami,
First of all Idomaland is NOT marginalized "at the center" as you claimed. I assume that you're using the conventional Nigerian definition of marginalization, which rests on federal visibility, appointments, etc. If that assumption is correct then you're way off. Since 1999, Idomaland has been disproportionately visible at the federal level relative to their size (even in Benue we're a minority). Every government since 1999 has had Idoma ministers; the've been service chiefs, presidential advisers, etc. David Mark, an Idoma, was senate president for 8 years. The current government has an Idoma as minister of agriculture, and an Idoma, Air Vice Marshall Morgan, as Chief of Defense Staff. That is not marginalization by Nigeria's definition of the term. As you can see, if I was seduced or susceptible to the Nigerian patriotism rhetoric, which tends to correspond to these shifting indicators of visibility and marginality, I should be singing along with Fakinlede and others about my patriotism. However, as I stated, my aversion to patriotism has nothing to do with these indicators. How I feel about Nigeria is independent of who gets what position or appointment. I am more concerned with structural issues and fundamental questions of Nigeria's lingering dysfunction. Besides, as I stated, I've harbored an intellectual and philosophical disdain for patriotism since my days in graduate school. That was a long time ago. I evolved intellectually into that conviction. As a historian, I know what appeals to patriotic sentiments have done to humanity. Hitler, Mussolini, and others came out of different types of appeals to patriotism.
Also, as a historian, I'm trained to recognize and make sense of patterns. This is very useful especially since, as historians, we deal with the longue duree, the long term. We interpret the present in light of the past. I gave several examples from several regions, including mine, of shifts in patriotic sentiments, sometimes dramatic ones, that correspond to the region's dwindling or rising socioeconomic and political fortunes within the union. You have not faulted that analysis. No one on this thread has. I may be wrong about individual's motives but not about groups.'
Let me even go ahead and add another dramatic example. As you know, my primary research constituency is Northern Nigeria, especially Hausaphone Northern Nigeria, where you come from. As a result of this interest and my upbringing in Hausaphone Northern Nigeria, my social and intellectual circle is dominated by Hausa people, broadly defined, as is my social media community. This gives me daily access to the Northern and Hausa political mind (this is problematic I know, but I'm taking liberties here). In the period leading to the 2015 elections, one of the most shocking things I encountered is the number of Hausa-Fulani Northerners, long stereotyped in Northern Nigerian political discourse as people invested in one Nigeria and adamantly opposed to separatism, who were saying openly on my social media feed and even in a few private conversations that they had lost faith in Nigeria and wanted the country to break. Most of them were and still are supporters of Buhari, who was a candidate at that time. Then, most expert projections indicated that Jonathan, by legal or crooked means, would wrangle a second term. Many of these people were saying that they no longer believed in Nigeria, that in fact all that the Hausa people get out of Nigeria was poverty and insult and that they wanted a separate country where they would be free from being blamed for Nigeria's problems without seeing much benefit. They were fierce separatists. Fast forward to 2016 and 2017. These same interlocutors, barely two years after Buhari became president, have become the biggest advocates of patriotism and Nigeria's nationalist pride. They consistently wax patriotic when commenting on Biafra, Niger Delta, and other centrifugal agitations. I am simultaneously amused and enlightened by this dramatic shift. In two years, Northern separatists who wanted out of Nigeria had somehow rediscovered the beauty and benefits of one Nigeria, of patriotism and loyalty to country. You don't need a rocket scientist to tell you that their separatist agitation had been informed by their sense that power and the ability to distribute the national cake had been denied the North, and that their rediscovery of patriotism is a function of Buhari's ascendancy to the presidency.
This is further evidence of my theory of these ebbs and flows of patriotic and centrifugal sentiments and how they correspond to the vagaries of politics.
My reference to "crude literalism" is a general reference to trends I've noticed in recent time on the listserv, not to the participants on this thread or their contributions. But I think that the reaction to the quote posted by Ken (patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel) vindicates me in my earlier caution, in my fear that the quote was a prime candidate for a crudely literalist interpretation.
Finally, I wish I could claim the credit you're extending to me, that of having discouraged potential patriotic declarations from other members of the list. I'm flattered but I am not that persuasive, my friend. I think that, like me, most folks are and should be suspicious of loud patriotic invocation and tend to scrutinize its motive, timing, and objective. In fact I suspect that you yourself haven't joined the chorus precisely because of your own intellectual trepidation about such vulgar displays of patriotism sentiments. Finally, I think that most people would rather confront and solve the causes of centrifugal and separatist agitations than respond to them with ineffectual, escapist declarations of their patriotism.
Moses Ochonu
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Moses Ochonu
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Olayinka Agbetuyi
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Kayode J. Fakinlede
Americans inculcate, in their children early in life, the spirit of patriotism and love for country. As early as their kindergarten years, they are made to recite the pledge of allegiance each morning. Most Americans seem to think that there is something to defend in their country, in spite of its unpalatable history.
Truly, some Americans may call for the dissolution of America and make a lot of noise about it. If however, the American government feel that a group is undermining the existence of the nation, they will not tolerate such a group. Yes you can make a lot of noise. You can even create newspapers and make some noise. That is alright – to some extent.
‘The American Sedition Act of 1918 forbade the use of ‘disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language” about the United States government, its flag, or its armed forces or that caused others to view the American government or its institutions with contempt. Those convicted under the law generally received sentences of imprrisonment for five to twenty years.’ This statement is taken from the internet and anyone can check it out.
America, therefore does not play with its sovereignty.
Incessant disregard for the sovereignty of any nation seriously undermines its ability to develop. It is one thing to oppose the government in power and make your feelings known. But this must be done within the confines of the legal apparatus.
In recent days, the leader of IPOB has threatened a former president with violence for daring to call for the government to ensure the continued existence of the nation. Many people on the internet take a license to insult our country and whoever challenges them is treated with abusive language. This group and a few others have succeeded in making rational debate impossible. IPOB is not looking for dilogue. They have made that abundantly clear. Their behavour does not call for dialogue. They want to break up the country if they can.
Regardless of what elegant theories we may have concerning the nation-state, the reality of it is that they do exist for some purposes, and you have rightly defined it in your essay ‘as valuable as the INVESTMENTS people make in it and the benefits they derive from it.’ ‘
You had this to say about me:
You're already set in your fanatical and strategically "patriotic" ways. You do not seek engagement. You merely seek affirmations of your cringe-worthy displays of "I love Nigeria" patriotic fervor.’
You also went on to say that ‘’It is also possible that the subtleties and nuances of my arguments flew by you. Either way, I do not know where or how to begin without taking this discussion in a circular trajectory or coming across as condescending.’
To your former assertion, I have stated in more times than one why I love Nigeria. It is neither a result of what I need to benefit or gain. It is as a result of mingling with everyday Nigerians, sharing their hopes and aspirations and willing to contribute my own quota. That is my definition of love. If such a definition makes you cringe, then so be it.
I am not a fanatic. However, I do fear that if we continue to throw around words and terms that are uncivil, debates become even more dificult. I am old enough to know that civilility goes a long way in bulding bridges. We who are on the internet must therefore learn to be civil.
Now concerning the fact that the subtleties and nuances of the arguments flew by me, I have never laughed as much as I laughed when I read that. It just reminded me of another writer who wanted me to respect the fact that he had high academic degrees.
Where did I get the idea that you do not believe in the nation-state or that you do not believe that it should be defended against external aggression? You said as much yourself. I hope you read what you wrote yourself,
You said ‘There is absolutely nothing sacrosanct or intrinsically praise-worthy about the Nigerian nation-state or any other nation-state for that matter.’
You also said If people no longer find it useful as a vessel for achieving their aspirations or no longer find the human associations that it engenders useful, what good is that nation-state and why is it worth defending,’’ I guess it is only appropriate to ask if you are talking about internal or external aggression.
My conclusion: We do bear a large measure of responsibility for what we say on the internet. Most of us either live in Europe or America. Our utterances must be measured. Whatever we write may unwittingly encourage violence at this precarious moment of our nation’s history.
One person killed is one person too many.
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 2:43:38 PM UTC+1, Kayode J. Fakinlede wrote:
Kenneth Harrow
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
Michigan State University
619 Red Cedar Rd
East Lansing, MI 48824
Olayinka Agbetuyi
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (Sent from my iPhone
Olayinka Agbetuyi
Americans inculcate, in their children early in life, the spirit of patriotism and love for country. As early as their kindergarten years, they are made to recite the pledge of allegiance each morning. Most Americans seem to think that there is something to defend in their country, in spite of its unpalatable history.
Truly, some Americans may call for the dissolution of America and make a lot of noise about it. If however, the American government feel that a group is undermining the existence of the nation, they will not tolerate such a group. Yes you can make a lot of noise. You can even create newspapers and make some noise. That is alright – to some extent.
‘The American Sedition Act of 1918 forbade the use of ‘disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language” about the United States government, its flag, or its armed forces or that caused others to view the American government or its institutions with contempt. Those convicted under the law generally received sentences of imprrisonment for five to twenty years.’ This statement is taken from the internet and anyone can check it out.
America, therefore does not play with its sovereignty.
Incessant disregard for the sovereignty of any nation seriously undermines its ability to develop. It is one thing to oppose the government in power and make your feelings known. But this must be done within the confines of the legal apparatus.
In recent days, the leader of IPOB has threatened a former president with violence for daring to call for the government to ensure the continued existence of the nation. Many people on the internet take a license to insult our country and whoever challenges them is treated with abusive language. This group and a few others have succeeded in making rational debate impossible. IPOB is not looking for dilogue. They have made that abundantly clear. Their behavour does not call for dialogue. They want to break up the country if they can.
Regardless of what elegant theories we may have concerning the nation-state, the reality of it is that they do exist for some purposes, and you have rightly defined it in your essay ‘as valuable as the INVESTMENTS people make in it and the benefits they derive from it.’ ‘
You had this to say about me:
You're already set in your fanatical and strategically "patriotic" ways. You do not seek engagement. You merely seek affirmations of your cringe-worthy displays of "I love Nigeria" patriotic fervor.’
You also went on to say that ‘’It is also possible that the subtleties and nuances of my arguments flew by you. Either way, I do not know where or how to begin without taking this discussion in a circular trajectory or coming across as condescending.’
To your former assertion, I have stated in more times than one why I love Nigeria. It is neither a result of what I need to benefit or gain. It is as a result of mingling with everyday Nigerians, sharing their hopes and aspirations and willing to contribute my own quota. That is my definition of love. If such a definition makes you cringe, then so be it.
I am not a fanatic. However, I do fear that if we continue to throw around words and terms that are uncivil, debates become even more dificult. I am old enough to know that civilility goes a long way in bulding bridges. We who are on the internet must therefore learn to be civil.
Now concerning the fact that the subtleties and nuances of the arguments flew by me, I have never laughed as much as I laughed when I read that. It just reminded me of another writer who wanted me to respect the fact that he had high academic degrees.
Where did I get the idea that you do not believe in the nation-state or that you do not believe that it should be defended against external aggression? You said as much yourself. I hope you read what you wrote yourself,
You said ‘There is absolutely nothing sacrosanct or intrinsically praise-worthy about the Nigerian nation-state or any other nation-state for that matter.’
You also said If people no longer find it useful as a vessel for achieving their aspirations or no longer find the human associations that it engenders useful, what good is that nation-state and why is it worth defending,’’ I guess it is only appropriate to ask if you are talking about internal or external aggression.
My conclusion: We do bear a large measure of responsibility for what we say on the internet. Most of us either live in Europe or America. Our utterances must be measured. Whatever we write may unwittingly encourage violence at this precarious moment of our nation’s history.
One person killed is one person too many.
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 2:43:38 PM UTC+1, Kayode J. Fakinlede wrote:
In recent months, I have witnessed the most organised and coordinated effort to tear down our country that any person or a group of people can muster. Nigeria, our country, has suddenly transmogrified into a country of confused people who cannot put two and two together, its impending doom and imminent collapse being broadcast every minute on the internet and the print media.
Some months before, I was at a gathering in the United States and, as a lone person out, I had tried to defend our country among some of these naysayers only to find out that I was dangerously outmunbered. “What has Nigeria done for you?; why should I speak well about Nigeria, etc, etc?’ These kinds of questions were coming from even new arrivals and from young people who had just received their freshly minted certificates in one university or another in Nigeria and were lucky enough to have been able to secure a visa to America. Of course, I had previously, and several times found myself among groups of Nigerians who would spend the night castigating our country and throwing darts at it. Some even swore never to set eyes on Nigeria for ever.
Ah, Ah!!, I discovered why it is easy for these to put Nigeria down. The light and glare of the country America have blinded them to the reality of where they come from and the sacrifices made by their forebears to get them there. Evidently, much that they see and experience in America magically appeared across the landscape. A little learning, they say is a dangerous thing.
Of course, there is a majority of us, the silent majority, who by reason of our experience know that things do not always go harmonioulsy in God’s own country. In America, in spite of the daily jostling of each individual to get to the top regardless of whose ass is gored, we see the combined efforts of its citizens, irrespective of and in spite of their differences, to continuously improve - emphasis on improve - the school system, the legal system, the water system, the health provision system, the electricity supply system, roads and bridges, etc.
‘Towards a more perfect Union,’ Americans often proclaim this as their intention. But when I see the level of acrimony some issues generate within the polity, I often wonder if a perfect union can ever be achieved on earth. But at the end of it all, I realise that the glitter and fluorencence that we foreigners now come to enjoy are the results of years of the acrimonious debates and sacrifices – emphasis on sacrifices - made by their forebears.
One fact seems to run through the vein of all Americans though, they love their country, warts and all. Every American proclaims this at the roof top every time and before they start the aforementioned acrimonious debates.
Majority of Nigerians are like Americans too. We wake up in the morning, try to take care of our families the best way we can, get to our individual workplaces to earn a living, send our children to the best schools we can afford, and in general try to earn a living. We also love Nigeria, warts and all. And try our best to work towards a better Nigeria.
But we have let the naysayers hijack the debate. We have allowed them to control the tempo of our discussion. We have given them the megaphone, they are now browbeating us with negative propaganda, and we are cowered by the intensity of their intention.
Let us therefore begin to take to the bulhorn to declare our love for our country Nigeria. Let our positive proclamation drown the organized, cacophony and grandiloquence of the naysayers. They do have a plan and their plan is to tear Nigeria apart. We have a better plan and that better plan is to keep Nigeria one. And we do not have to debate or apologize to anyone for this.
God bless Nigeria
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Kayode J. Fakinlede
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Kenneth Harrow
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studiesbi
Michigan State University
619 Red Cedar Rd
East Lansing, MI 48824
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To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
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Salimonu Kadiri
Ebe,
With respect for members on this forum and the high academic institution you represent, you must clarify the questions raised by Kayode Fakinlede based on one of your responses to Olayinka Agbetuyi on the subject under discussion which actually originated from Kayode Fakinlede's post.
Excerpting from your response to Olayinka Agbetuyi, Mr. Fakinlede wrote under item 4, "You seem to believe that there is something intrinsically worthy of being defended in the nation-state." Therefore, in item 5, he asked you politely, "Sir, are you talking about all nation-states or Nigerian in particular? Are you saying that no nation-state should be defended against any form of aggression, external or internal? That is, the collection of people you defined later in this article should not defend themselves against any form of aggression?
Of all the questions asked by Mr. Fakinlede, item 5 seemed to attract your attention. Thus, you wrote among other things, "Your response to my post is riddled with misrepresentations, facile understandings and rhetorical questions that rest on mischaracterizations and misreading(s) of what I was arguing." Pointing out what constituted misrepresentations, facile understandings and rhetorical questions that rested on mischaracterizations and misreading in Mr. Fakinlede's questions, you wrote, "Where did you get the idea that I do not believe the nation-state or that I do not believe that it should be defended against external aggression?"
In your response earlier to Olayinka Agbetuyi under your item 1, you wrote, "You state that a propaganda war is being waged against the country's survival and then you imply that the country has to be defended against these people you describe as propagandists. I couldn't disagree more. My disagreement is multifaceted. You seem to believe that there is something intrinsically worthy of being defended in the nation-state. UNLIKE YOU, I'M NOT SUCH A BELIEVER IN THE NATION-STATE as an inherently valuable political commodity. You say propagandists ARE WAGING A WAR AGAINST NIGERIA'S SURVIVAL. TO WHICH I SAY, SO WHAT...." Further in your item 2, you wrote, "To label or rename them propagandists against the country or as people who are attacking the country's survival is to delegitimize and even criminalize them. Why is the country's survival more important to you than the rights and aspirations of the peoples who constitute it? A state that is afraid of dissent and alternative political imaginations IS AN INHERENTLY WEAK STATE THAT IS BETTER DISSOLVING. ....//.... When you imply that we have to defend the nation against the attack of propagandists, you are casting the agitators as external to the country, as internal enemies. You are Othering them." From the above excerpts from your response to Olayinka Agbetuyi it is clear that 'you don't believe in nation-state' because in your response referred to above, you wrote, "UNLIKE YOU, I'AM NOT SUCH A BELIEVER IN THE NATION-STATE," which is not an idea concocted by Mr. Fakinlede as you made it to look like. Similarly, the idea that you do not believe that it (the nation-state) should be defended against external aggression is not of Mr. Fakinlede's making since you stated in your response to Mr. Agbetuyi thus, "You say propagandists ARE WAGING WAR AGAINST NIGERIA'S SURVIVAL. TO WHICH I SAY, SO WHAT... WHEN YOU IMPLY THAT WE HAVE TO DEFEND THE NATION AGAINST THE ATTACK OF PROPAGANDISTS, YOU ARE CASTING THE AGITATORS AS EXTERNAL TO THE COUNTRY, AS INTERNAL ENEMIES. YOU ARE OTHERING THEM." Are the agitators for the dissolution of the Nigerian State not enemies of Nigeria just as the secessionists that declared the Niger Delta People's Republic from Nigeria through their leader, Isaac Adaka Boro on 23 February 1966, and Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu's declaration of the then Eastern Region, a Republic of Biafra, from Nigeria on 30 May 1967? Was it wrong for the Federal government led by Generals Ironsi and Gowon to crush those secessionists militarily?
The arguments we have heard so far from those who want to tear the Nigerian nation into pieces are: the amalgamation of 1914 leading to the Nigerian State was done without consultation; and the current agitators for the sovereign state of Biafra is due to the marginalisation of the Igbo in Nigeria after the end of the war. Prior to independence, Nigerian leaders as representatives of the people of Nigeria attended many constitutional conferences at which they accept the existence of Nigeria as a country. The leaders also agreed to live and be ruled under a national constitution. Any Igbo that thinks it fashionable now to disparage Lord Lugard should first throw away the red cap he imported from Morocco to decorate the warrant chiefs he created in lieu of lack of traditional rulers in Igbo land as it were in the North and the West. The warrant chiefs were eventually upgraded to Eze which according to Chinua Achebe the Igbo protested saying Ezebuilo, meaning A-King-Is-An-Enemy. Igbo cannot throw away Lugard's amalgamation of Nigeria in 1914 and keep his red cap.
On marginalisation of the Igbo in Nigeria the newly appointed President General of Ohaneze Ndigbo, Chief John Nnia Nwodo said a while ago that Igbo youths' agitation for Biafra was due to marginalisation of the Igbo in Nigeria since the end of the war. He condemned the arrest and the reprimand of Nnamdi Kanu in lawful custody for treasonable felony. Suddenly, at the beginning of July 2017, the President General of Ohaneze Ndigbo, John Nnia Nwodo had cause to address members of Anambra State House of Assembly. The reason was because Nnamdi Kanu who had been granted bail had issued a decree that the constitutionally planned Anambra Gubernatorial election in November shall not take place. Chief Nwodo was angry over the child that had outgrown his parents. The Ohaneze Ndigbo in his address engaged in a roll call of Ndi Anambrans who had held and still hold important positions in the administration of Nigeria. Due to the fact that he posited that Anambra accounted for more than fifty per cent of all Ndi Igbo progress in Nigeria, Obi Nwakanma countered him and wrote that if he were to address members of either Ebonyi, Enugu, Abia or Imo state House of Assembly, his roll call of people in each of those States who had held and are still holding important federal appointments would be similar to that of Anambra. Thus, the Southeast or the Igbo are not marginalised in Nigeria according to the President General of Ohaneze Ndigbo, Chief Nnia Nwodo, and Obi Nwakanma. Thereby, the main pillar on which the agitation for Biafra stands crumbled.
In his post of July 6, Ebe pointed out, "Only three years ago, Northerners, especially people from the so-called core North, were denouncing the union and openly saying they would be fine with the country dividing. Some of them even threatened to tear the union apart if power did not return to the North - and by North they did not mean my kind of North." One observes here, that Ebe did not name those from the core North that wanted to tear the country into pieces, especially if power did not return to the North. Noteworthy, however, is Ebe's remark that the demand for power to return to the North did not embrace his own ethnic minority part of the North. The impression created in Ebe's post is that Kayode Fakinlede's call for patriotism to Nigeria is because he belongs to the same ethnic group as the Ag. President Osinbajo. Fortunately, the illogicality of Ebe's assumption was highlighted by Malami Buba in his 10 July 2017 post thus, "Isn't it also 'crude literalism' to assume that Kayode & co., are being patriotic because (Yoruba) Osinbajo is the Ag. President?" Illustrating that it is unfair to attribute the cause of Fakinlede's patriotism to his tribe's man at the centre, Malami Buba wrote, "Nor would it be fair to the Idoma, I think, conversely, to assume that your deep suspicion of effusive patriotism is a reflection of Idomaland's marginalisation at the centre." Responding to Malami Buba, Ebe wrote, "First of all Idomaland is NOT marginalized 'at the centre' as you claimed. I assume that you're using the conventional Nigerian definition of marginalization, which rests on federal visibility in appointments etc. ..//... Since 1999, Idomaland has been disproportionately visible at the federal level relative to their size (even in Benue we're a minority). Every government since 1999 has had Idoma ministers; they've been service chiefs, presidential advisers, etc. David Mark, an Idoma, was Senate President for 8 years. The current government has an Idoma as minister of Agriculture, and an Idoma, Air Vice Marshall Morgan, as Chief of Defence Staff." Marginalisation at the centre as a reason for being unpatriotic to Nigeria is not applicable to Ebe's Idoma ethnic group just as it is not to Chief John Nnia Nwodo and Obi Nwakanma's Igbo ethnic group. On what is agitation for the disintegration of Nigeria based if all the ethnic and the two dominant religious groups are well represented at the centre? As I have said before the ethno-religious belonging of people in government is of no importance to the masses of Nigeria but their abilities to produce goods and services expected of their offices to Nigerians. If the political and economic condition of Nigeria of which citizens are displeased are brought about by the amalgamation of ethno-religious groups at the centre, the same leaders from each tribe who are now at the centre will preside over the emerging decentralised or disintegrated units.
The questions raised by Kayode Fakinlede and the clarfications he sought from you, Moses Ebe Ochonu are genuine and intellectually very refreshing. To browbeat him the way you did is called in Latin, Ignoratio Elenchi, otherwise known as ignorance of proof, defined as a deliberate act of evading the real issues and drawing conclusions that are irrelevant and completely at variance with the subject matter. As we say in my mother tongue, only a tussled and ruffled dog barks away its panic and mistakes it for strength.
S. Kadiri
Skickat: den 11 juli 2017 14:52
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
Kayode J. Fakinlede
To Kenneth Harrow:
Sir,
I had previously thought it wise to leave the topic of freedom of speech in America alone since it it is deviating from my initial objective of trying to get people to express their love for our nation, Nigeria, in the face of a seemingly constant and endless barage of negative publicity. However, because it is you, I will try to go over what I said in the face of the ‘image’you think I have.
However, before I go on, I would like to inject some humour into our conversation so it does not sound too academic. There was a king in Yorubaland called Elempe the second. What Elempe did to invite his beheading was that he said a gourd is heavier than a cooking pot. Everyone listening quickly covered his ears so as not listen to this blasphemy. Everyone knows that a cooking pot is much heavier than a gourd. For this blasphemy, his neck was relieved of his head.
Later on, it was learnt that what king Elempe the second actually meant was that a gourd filled with palm wine is heavier than an empty pot. In the mean time, his head was already a feast for the birds.
Now, you claim that I have an image of the US as some kind of a perfectly policed universe. I have lived on and off in the US for close to five decades. I had my university education here both as an undergraduate and as a doctoral student. I have had the good fortune of living and working in this country. I also call this place home. Let me say that I love this country. I know that kind of statement may fall into disfavour among some people. But I am very grateful for being here. I do not in any way regard this country as a policed state. I have indeed seen many of the critical letters to which you refer, and have heard people calling the president all kinds of names. I do not expect the government or the FBI to move against these people.
Now my statement. I have said:
‘In America, if a person should use a language that is perceived to be threatening and it is believed that he means what he is saying by acting in that direction, the law enforcement agents - particularly the FBI, will at least pay the person a visit, and keep him under surveillance’
Three conditions abound and I do not think they can be separated from one another without commiting my unfortunate King Elempe’s offence:
1. One makes the threatening statement
2. It is believed that he means what he says
3. He is acting in that direction
Now, if one were to remove one of these premisess from my statement, one can argue endlessly but it would not disqualify my assertion.
Now, if one were to express one’s lack of fondness for the president or even outrightly calls him some unprintable name, one has not even begun to scratch the surface in terms of the premises given above.
And I am sure, you do not even have the intention of satistying the three.
Regards
Olayinka Agbetuyi
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (Ebe,
With respect for members on this forum and the high academic institution you represent, you must clarify the questions raised by Kayode Fakinlede based on one of your responses to Olayinka Agbetuyi on the subject under discussion which actually originated from Kayode Fakinlede's post.
Excerpting from your response to Olayinka Agbetuyi, Mr. Fakinlede wrote under item 4, "You seem to believe that there is something intrinsically worthy of being defended in the nation-state." Therefore, in item 5, he asked you politely, "Sir, are you talking about all nation-states or Nigerian in particular? Are you saying that no nation-state should be defended against any form of aggression, external or internal? That is, the collection of people you defined later in this article should not defend themselves against any form of aggression?
Of all the questions asked by Mr. Fakinlede, item 5 seemed to attract your attention. Thus, you wrote among other things, "Your response to my post is riddled with misrepresentations, facile understandings and rhetorical questions that rest on mischaracterizations and misreading(s) of what I was arguing." Pointing out what constituted misrepresentations, facile understandings and rhetorical questions that rested on mischaracterizations and misreading in Mr. Fakinlede's questions, you wrote, "Where did you get the idea that I do not believe the nation-state or that I do not believe that it should be defended against external aggression?"
In your response earlier to Olayinka Agbetuyi under your item 1, you wrote, "You state that a propaganda war is being waged against the country's survival and then you imply that the country has to be defended against these people you describe as propagandists. I couldn't disagree more. My disagreement is multifaceted. You seem to believe that there is something intrinsically worthy of being defended in the nation-state. UNLIKE YOU, I'M NOT SUCH A BELIEVER IN THE NATION-STATE as an inherently valuable political commodity. You say propagandists ARE WAGING A WAR AGAINST NIGERIA'S SURVIVAL. TO WHICH I SAY, SO WHAT...." Further in your item 2, you wrote, "To label or rename them propagandists against the country or as people who are attacking the country's survival is to delegitimize and even criminalize them. Why is the country's survival more important to you than the rights and aspirations of the peoples who constitute it? A state that is afraid of dissent and alternative political imaginations IS AN INHERENTLY WEAK STATE THAT IS BETTER DISSOLVING. ....//.... When you imply that we have to defend the nation against the attack of propagandists, you are casting the agitators as external to the country, as internal enemies. You are Othering them." From the above excerpts from your response to Olayinka Agbetuyi it is clear that 'you don't believe in nation-state' because in your response referred to above, you wrote, "UNLIKE YOU, I'AM NOT SUCH A BELIEVER IN THE NATION-STATE," which is not an idea concocted by Mr. Fakinlede as you made it to look like. Similarly, the idea that you do not believe that it (the nation-state) should be defended against external aggression is not of Mr. Fakinlede's making since you stated in your response to Mr. Agbetuyi thus, "You say propagandists ARE WAGING WAR AGAINST NIGERIA'S SURVIVAL. TO WHICH I SAY, SO WHAT... WHEN YOU IMPLY THAT WE HAVE TO DEFEND THE NATION AGAINST THE ATTACK OF PROPAGANDISTS, YOU ARE CASTING THE AGITATORS AS EXTERNAL TO THE COUNTRY, AS INTERNAL ENEMIES. YOU ARE OTHERING THEM." Are the agitators for the dissolution of the Nigerian State not enemies of Nigeria just as the secessionists that declared the Niger Delta People's Republic from Nigeria through their leader, Isaac Adaka Boro on 23 February 1966, and Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu's declaration of the then Eastern Region, a Republic of Biafra, from Nigeria on 30 May 1967? Was it wrong for the Federal government led by Generals Ironsi and Gowon to crush those secessionists militarily?
The arguments we have heard so far from those who want to tear the Nigerian nation into pieces are: the amalgamation of 1914 leading to the Nigerian State was done without consultation; and the current agitators for the sovereign state of Biafra is due to the marginalisation of the Igbo in Nigeria after the end of the war. Prior to independence, Nigerian leaders as representatives of the people of Nigeria attended many constitutional conferences at which they accept the existence of Nigeria as a country. The leaders also agreed to live and be ruled under a national constitution. Any Igbo that thinks it fashionable now to disparage Lord Lugard should first throw away the red cap he imported from Morocco to decorate the warrant chiefs he created in lieu of lack of traditional rulers in Igbo land as it were in the North and the West. The warrant chiefs were eventually upgraded to Eze which according to Chinua Achebe the Igbo protested saying Ezebuilo, meaning A-King-Is-An-Enemy. Igbo cannot throw away Lugard's amalgamation of Nigeria in 1914 and keep his red cap.
On marginalisation of the Igbo in Nigeria the newly appointed President General of Ohaneze Ndigbo, Chief John Nnia Nwodo said a while ago that Igbo youths' agitation for Biafra was due to marginalisation of the Igbo in Nigeria since the end of the war. He condemned the arrest and the reprimand of Nnamdi Kanu in lawful custody for treasonable felony. Suddenly, at the beginning of July 2017, the President General of Ohaneze Ndigbo, John Nnia Nwodo had cause to address members of Anambra State House of Assembly. The reason was because Nnamdi Kanu who had been granted bail had issued a decree that the constitutionally planned Anambra Gubernatorial election in November shall not take place. Chief Nwodo was angry over the child that had outgrown his parents. The Ohaneze Ndigbo in his address engaged in a roll call of Ndi Anambrans who had held and still hold important positions in the administration of Nigeria. Due to the fact that he posited that Anambra accounted for more than fifty per cent of all Ndi Igbo progress in Nigeria, Obi Nwakanma countered him and wrote that if he were to address members of either Ebonyi, Enugu, Abia or Imo state House of Assembly, his roll call of people in each of those States who had held and are still holding important federal appointments would be similar to that of Anambra. Thus, the Southeast or the Igbo are not marginalised in Nigeria according to the President General of Ohaneze Ndigbo, Chief Nnia Nwodo, and Obi Nwakanma. Thereby, the main pillar on which the agitation for Biafra stands crumbled.
In his post of July 6, Ebe pointed out, "Only three years ago, Northerners, especially people from the so-called core North, were denouncing the union and openly saying they would be fine with the country dividing. Some of them even threatened to tear the union apart if power did not return to the North - and by North they did not mean my kind of North." One observes here, that Ebe did not name those from the core North that wanted to tear the country into pieces, especially if power did not return to the North. Noteworthy, however, is Ebe's remark that the demand for power to return to the North did not embrace his own ethnic minority part of the North. The impression created in Ebe's post is that Kayode Fakinlede's call for patriotism to Nigeria is because he belongs to the same ethnic group as the Ag. President Osinbajo. Fortunately, the illogicality of Ebe's assumption was highlighted by Malami Buba in his 10 July 2017 post thus, "Isn't it also 'crude literalism' to assume that Kayode & co., are being patriotic because (Yoruba) Osinbajo is the Ag. President?" Illustrating that it is unfair to attribute the cause of Fakinlede's patriotism to his tribe's man at the centre, Malami Buba wrote, "Nor would it be fair to the Idoma, I think, conversely, to assume that your deep suspicion of effusive patriotism is a reflection of Idomaland's marginalisation at the centre." Responding to Malami Buba, Ebe wrote, "First of all Idomaland is NOT marginalized 'at the centre' as you claimed. I assume that you're using the conventional Nigerian definition of marginalization, which rests on federal visibility in appointments etc. ..//... Since 1999, Idomaland has been disproportionately visible at the federal level relative to their size (even in Benue we're a minority). Every government since 1999 has had Idoma ministers; they've been service chiefs, presidential advisers, etc. David Mark, an Idoma, was Senate President for 8 years. The current government has an Idoma as minister of Agriculture, and an Idoma, Air Vice Marshall Morgan, as Chief of Defence Staff." Marginalisation at the centre as a reason for being unpatriotic to Nigeria is not applicable to Ebe's Idoma ethnic group just as it is not to Chief John Nnia Nwodo and Obi Nwakanma's Igbo ethnic group. On what is agitation for the disintegration of Nigeria based if all the ethnic and the two dominant religious groups are well represented at the centre? As I have said before the ethno-religious belonging of people in government is of no importance to the masses of Nigeria but their abilities to produce goods and services expected of their offices to Nigerians. If the political and economic condition of Nigeria of which citizens are displeased are brought about by the amalgamation of ethno-religious groups at the centre, the same leaders from each tribe who are now at the centre will preside over the emerging decentralised or disintegrated units.
The questions raised by Kayode Fakinlede and the clarfications he sought from you, Moses Ebe Ochonu are genuine and intellectually very refreshing. To browbeat him the way you did is called in Latin, Ignoratio Elenchi, otherwise known as ignorance of proof, defined as a deliberate act of evading the real issues and drawing conclusions that are irrelevant and completely at variance with the subject matter. As we say in my mother tongue, only a tussled and ruffled dog barks away its panic and mistakes it for strength.
S. Kadiri
Skickat: den 11 juli 2017 14:52
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: IF YOU LOVE NIGERIA, SAY SO
Kenneth Harrow
Kenneth Harrow
Dept of English and Film Studies
Michigan State University
619 Red Cedar Rd
East Lansing, MI 48824
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