Quran burning in Sweden?
Cornelius Hamelberg
It’s time for Muslims to wake up and smell the juice.
This Holy Month of Ramadan, isn’t this type of provocation a sacrilege and precisely the kind that leads to foreseeable consequences such as spontaneous, unplanned VIOLENCE?
Harrow, Kenneth
Guest Essay
Marine Le Pen Is as Dangerous as Ever
Ms. Alouane is a researcher at the Toulouse 1 Capitole University who writes often about French politics and culture.
TOULOUSE, France — In 2017, we thought we’d seen the worst French politics could offer.
Marine Le Pen, the far-right leader, had made it through to the second round of the country’s presidential elections. For the first time since 2002, a far-right figure was in the runoff to become president — and with considerably more support. When Ms. Le Pen lost to Emmanuel Macron, albeit with a worrying 34 percent share of the vote, we breathed a collective sigh of relief. Many hoped Ms. Le Pen, after falling at the final hurdle, would fade into obscurity.
It was not to be. Ms. Le Pen never went away, instead biding her time and preparing for the next tilt at power. She now has more chance of winning it than ever: After taking 23 percent in the first round, she’s within eight points of Mr. Macron in the second, on April 24. She’s benefited from the presence of the even more hard-line Éric Zemmour, whose lurid reactionary persona made Ms. Le Pen seem, by contrast, more reasonable. Yet she’s also embarked on a comprehensive effort to soften her image, renaming her party, downplaying the harsher elements of her platform and presenting herself as a warm, even folksy woman who loves her cats.
But no one should be fooled. At the head of a party that long housed Nazi collaborators, Ms. Le Pen is an authoritarian whose deeply racist and Islamophobic politics threaten to turn France into an outright illiberal state. She may pretend to be a regular politician, but she remains as dangerous as ever. For the good of minorities and France itself, she must not prevail.
If Ms. Le Pen looks more mainstream now, it’s because the mainstream looks more like her. In the years running up to the last election, she ran on a hard-right platform, stoking antagonism toward immigrants and French Muslims under the guise of protecting public order. She especially targeted minorities, “to whom,” she said bitterly, “everything is due and to whom we give everything.” In response to her success in 2017, nearly every party on the political spectrum — centrist, traditional right wing and even socialist — used the talking points of her party, now named National Rally (formerly National Front).
The tenor of political discussion, as a result, has shifted substantially to the right. There is now barely any space in French politics to advocate for French citizens who don’t look, behave, pray or eat the way “traditional” French people are supposed to — let alone to champion the rights of immigrants and refugees. In this environment, Ms. Le Pen can turn her attention to more everyday issues, such as rising energy bills and the cost of living, safe in the knowledge that on immigration, citizenship and “national identity,” she’s already won the argument.
That success didn’t happen overnight. For more than 30 years now, French political debate has centered itself around issues of identity at the expense of more pressing topics such as health care, climate change, unemployment and poverty. The far right has led the way. Exploiting feelings of decline at the end of the 1960s — as France shed its colonial empire, lost the war in Algeria and submitted to American domination of Western Europe — the far right became a potent political force. It used its influence to defend its conception of French identity, evoking a thousand-year-old European Christian civilization threatened by North African Muslim immigration.
This was the foundation upon which the National Front was created in 1972 by Ms. Le Pen’s father, Jean-Marie Le Pen. As people from France’s former colonies migrated to the metropole, the party focused obsessively on the supposed dangers of immigration. Mr. Le Pen’s tone was often apocalyptic: “Tomorrow,” he infamously said in 1984, “immigrants will stay with you, eat your soup and sleep with your wife, your daughter or your son.” Such rancorous resentment found some sympathy in certain quarters of French society, where the homogenizing effects of globalization and the increased visibility of Islam among French-born citizens were held to be stripping France of its essential character.
This antipathy took in many targets, among them French Jews. Mr. Le Pen was notorious for his antisemitic remarks — for which he was condemned by the courts multiple times — and the party created in his image trafficked in antisemitic ideas, tropes and images. Though Ms. Le Pen claimed to be moving past her father’s fixation on Jews, she continued to fan the flames — refusing in 2017 to accept France’s culpability for the Vichy regime’s role in the Holocaust and even, in a campaign poster this April, appearing to make a gesture associated with neo-Nazis. Capped by Mr. Zemmour’s open embrace of the Vichy regime, antisemitism has re-entered the political mainstream.
Muslims have similarly borne the brunt of bigotry. Initially considered a threat from elsewhere — supposedly coming to France to deprive the native-born of jobs — Muslims have in recent decades been viewed as an internal threat. With the rise of Islamist terrorism, Muslims were seen to be practicing an inherently violent religion that required containment by public authorities. To be a Muslim was to be guilty until proved innocent.
The past decade has taken this equation to a new level. The widespread fear now is not that a handful of people among nearly six million Muslims might pose a danger to public safety, but that all French Muslims by their very existence threaten the cultural identity of “traditional France.” It is, for some voters, an existential fear. In response, politicians have pushed measures to curb Islam’s purported infringement on French life, such as banning religious attire in public schools, full-face coverings in public spaces and burkinis on public beaches, and passing a bill that gives the state power to monitor Muslim religious observance and organizations.
To justify such moves, politicians weaponized the liberal concept of laïcité — effectively state-backed secularism — to restrict freedom of religion and conscience in the interests of an anti-Muslim agenda. This process, crucially, has made it possible for Ms. Le Pen to turn from radical firebrand to reasonable truth-teller. But underneath the sheen of normalcy, the brutally racist ideology her party pioneered over the past 30 years is very much intact.
Her manifesto, for example, promises to amend the Constitution to prohibit the settlement of a “a number of foreigners so large that it would change the composition and identity of the French people” — a rewording of the white-supremacist “Great Replacement” theory. She also plans to legally distinguish between “native-born French” and “others” for access to housing, employment and benefits, and allow citizenship only to people who have “earned it and assimilated.” Completing the picture, Ms. Le Pen has said she would ban the wearing of the head scarf in public spaces.
In these promises as well as the company she keeps — she has associated with Vladimir Putin, Bashar al-Assad and Viktor Orban — Ms. Le Pen has made clear her intention to reshape France at home and abroad. Her administration would echo those in Brazil, India and other countries where a similar rightward slide has taken hold. For minorities, immigrants, dissidents and democracy itself, it would be a disaster. Though her momentum appears to have stalled in recent days, Ms. Le Pen is not going away, no matter what happens on Sunday. As a French Muslim citizen born and raised here, I fear for my country.
And it is my country, as much as it is Ms. Le Pen’s or Mr. Macron’s. At a time when politicians and pundits are demanding Muslims “abide by republican values” if they want to be part of the country, it’s instructive that voters may elect a politician whose core ideology violates the values of liberty, equality and fraternity that France has long championed. In that irony lies the gap between what France could be and what it is.
Rim-Sarah Alouane (@RimSarah) is a Ph.D. candidate and a researcher in comparative law at Toulouse 1 Capitole University in France. Her research focuses on civil liberties, constitutional law and human rights in Europe and North America.
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kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 7:49 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Quran burning in Sweden?
It’s time for Muslims to wake up and smell the juice.
This Holy Month of Ramadan, isn’t this type of provocation a sacrilege and precisely the kind that leads to foreseeable consequences such as spontaneous, unplanned VIOLENCE?
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
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Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
History Department, Central Connecticut State University
www.africahistory.net
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
Cornelius Hamelberg
Cheers! With Macron leading with a whopping 12% in the opinion polls after this debate, Professor Kenneth Harrow should be feeling much relieved and at least minimally happy. Ditto me – I don’t want to see an Islamophobe in any shape or colour as the First Citizen in the French Republic. It’s also interesting to note that in this episode Macron proves to be a master debater, punching hard about hijab ( he accused Le Pen that it would lead to civil war) and he also hot a little below here belt ( I thought) when beating his own chest he said that whereas he’s in touch and talking to fellow world leaders about Russia, Mada Le Pen only had contact with some weak Russian Bank etc. That’s how to debate - playing to the gallery, you hit your opponent and get her bogged down, busy defending herself against your charges, as you lean back and how appropriate facial expressions and convey your stern disapproval about the ridiculous defence being shown with just enough disdain to redeem you from being seen as too arrogant or overbearing.
Salimonu Kadiri
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Quran burning in Sweden?
It’s time for Muslims to wake up and smell the juice.
This Holy Month of Ramadan, isn’t this type of provocation a sacrilege and precisely the kind that leads to foreseeable consequences such as spontaneous, unplanned VIOLENCE?
--
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/HE1P193MB00765937F3D48868099D2D75AEF49%40HE1P193MB0076.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
Toyin Falola
Great one:
With due respect and apology to you, please don’t say, in moments such as this,
If you burn the Koran, so what?
What does that do to Islam?
I am not a Muslim. I am for peace everywhere in the world.
You know that burning the Qu’ran is not about fire and the Holy Book, but a deliberate way to provoke, and to say “Go back to your country, we don’t want you here.” It is an element of racism.
TF
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, April 22, 2022 at 3:51 AM
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Bayo Omolola
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
“There is nothing in our book, the Qur'an, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone lays a hand on you, send him to the cemetery.” ( Malcolm X )
With regard to so-called "Islamic violence, this is the state of the world, today:
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Every once in a while my late Yoruba Grandmother used to muse when cautioning against provocation, that “ Provocation is next to madness!”
I suppose that you understand what madness means?
Until just a few moments ago when I checked, I used to think that "Provocation is next to madness" was a direct quotation from the Holy Bible because it was her wont to spice her homilies liberally with quotations from the King James Version, and like some of her like-minded contemporaries she knew most of the Psalms of David and Kohelet / Ecclesiastes by heart - knew all that according to the state of the English Language ( early seventeenth century) translations of the Hebrew and Greek canon. Greatest storyteller, if I remember correctly, her strongest invective was “ Beast of Ephesus” – and she also used to say things about Nebuchadnezzar...
According to Professor Google, this is some of what the Bible says about provocation
Both of my grandmothers would have been horrified about Bible-burning anywhere...
And when some God-forsaken infidels start burning copies of the Holy Quran right outside the main mosque in Sokoto and Kano, what you demand Dear Adepoju, is some calm, sober, philosophical reflection from the incensed Muslim Brethren, and that after due & considerate reflection instead of breaking out into a holy war rampage, spreading death and destruction on those responsible - and above all bringing the miscreants swiftly, in fact - immediately to justice, that they decide to exercise some self-restraint/forbearance and ask themselves your question, " If you burn the Koran, so what?"
Dear Adepoju's follow-up question to the rationally enraged Muslims is,
" Why not use the provocative moment as an opportunity for public discourse on mutual respect and the transcendence of Islamic spiritual vision over such inanities as Koran burning? "
There’s a long history of Islamophobia and the provocation of Muslims going back all the way to the Crusades when the war propaganda of those so-called soldiers of Christ ( astaghfirullah) was that there was a Satanic Islamic Trinity which Muslims worship, comprising the Devil, Muhammad, and the Black Stone in Mecca.
Check this out: Islamophobia in Sweden
In Scandinavia in the past couple of years, as a direct reaction to world events, post-911, and in tandem with increased Muslim immigration and the importation and spreading of Islam as an unending tide of Muslim refugees to Europe and in the aftermath of Islamic terrorist attacks in Europe, every additional incident fans the fear of a Eurabia - and in reaction to this the provocations are gathering momentum - already, we have been through
The Muhammad Cartoons ( Denmark)
Lars Vilks ( Sweden)
By contrast, nobody was killed because of the Ecce Homo Exhibition - but should the worse than senseless things try any such folly with Islam's most beloved prophet they will surely rue the day...
If all of the above is all too depressing, here are two books that you may find to be a little more uplifting (not that Cornelius Ignoramus agrees with everything written therein) :
The Pearl of Sufism (Even the preface will surprise you )
The Teachings of a Sufi Master
The author Seyed Mostafa Azmayesh has wisely gone underground. He says that his life is in danger.
Our master advised us against getting involved in politics, in any way whatsoever, and that's why I'm exercising the uttermost restraint in reacting locally to this Quran burning. My nafs are raging...
Suffice it to say the Islamic Republic of Iran has reacted strongly to the despicable act of Quran burning in Sweden.
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
When their time comes, those
who burn the Quran won't stop burning in hell.
You probably don't understand the holy status of a Torah Scroll
The holiness of a Torah scroll
How do you think the Israeli Jews would react if, God forbid, some uncircumcised miscreants went ahead with some heinous burning of Sacred Torah Scrolls, at the Mea Shearim?
You are going to tell the good folks at Mea Shearim to keep quiet, stay calm, react with Adepju's appropriate philosophic dignity.
And if they don't, "By the time the burners see that Jews don't care about how many Torah Scrolls go up in flames, the burners will stop burning"?
Before you decide to answer the question, check this out : The History of Torah burning
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Harrow, Kenneth
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Quran burning in Sweden?
Toyin Falola
Ken:
And my plea is for Muslims not to take to violence.
Peace is not weakness or cowardice. It is wisdom.
TF
.
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Salimonu Kadiri
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Quran burning in Sweden?
Cornelius Hamelberg
Dear Ken,
Shalom.
On Wednesday evening I attended this event in the Old Town. It was quite moving.
I'm being very personal here, speaking in the first person singular that we cannot be sufficiently concerned about the current spate of Islamophobia in Sweden and the Islamophobia in the rest of civilised Europe and in the European Union, the hate crimes and other crimes against humanity.
Preceding Islamophobia is preceding that oldest hatred which is still without ceasing in Europe and over here too, there are the ever-strong currents of Antisemitism in Sweden.
You’d think that in the name of altruism and in the fight against prejudice and bigotry as our common enemies, apart from the occasional letters to the editor and once in a while some joint manifestations against hatred, xenophobia, hate speech etc, there’d be a lot of Jewish – Muslim solidarity in combating antisemitism and Islamophobia in this country, but the fact is that to some extent the Israel -Palestinian conflict is also playing out in Sweden and some of the first and second-generation Muslims here want to partly hold the Jews of Sweden responsible for what's happening between Isreal and Palestinians, so you Ken would not dare to wear your kippah when visiting any of the localities where the Muslims Holy Qurans are being burned, these days, without you yourself becoming an object for punishment…
Prejudices run deep, and you have to factor in the fact that Sweden is still old Lutheran territory That being the case, there’s still the hangover from Martin Luther vs the Jews
There has been a lot of progress since those days, circa 1998 Tell Ye Your Children was being widely circulated in Swedish schools, but a lot still has to be done., especially in the department of Islamophobia.
Maybe we should send the transcendental Apostle Adepoju over to instil some philosophical good sense into them, but would that be enough to eradicate their bigotry?
Refugees from Ukraine are being more gladly welcomed than refugees from further down South.
Here’s the latest atrocity
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Baba Kadiri,
Many thanks for the example of Pentecostal Pastor Åke Green’s homophobia being contrasted with the double standards authorities more or less legalising Islamophobia and the burning g of copies of the Quran.
I asked Pa Google, Is Minister Louis Farrakhan still banned from speaking in the UK?
What about Sweden?
In the name of freedom of expression, certain miscreants are given legal rights to burn copies of the Holy Quran but Hon. Minister Louis Farrakhan cannot be granted legal cover to blow his mind over here?
On this issue of Islamophobia Turkiye's President Recep Erdogan should be commended for being the first Muslim leader in Europe who would like to see some laws passed so that Islamophobia and certain types of criticism of Islam are made crimes against humanity.
Hopefully, the time will come when a European warrant of arrest will be issued by the competent authority for the extradition and trial of aforementioned miscreants for incidents such as Quran burning
Cornelius Hamelberg
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
Why are Muslims so readily provoked into acts of violence in the name of religion, thereby justifying their critics, asked Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju?
Your question was preceded with erroneous assumption that burning Quran does nothing to Islam and Islamists. If someone, for any reason, should decide to burn Bible publicly anywhere in the globe, there will be violent uproar. You cannot say it does not matter to a Hindu if you slaughter his holy god, the cow. That is how religion works for many believers.
Now to answer your question, religious violence is not limited to the Muslims alone. Recently, Nigeria's Sterling Banks had an Easter advertisement that said : Like Agege Bread, He Rose; Happy Easter. Describing the risen Jesus Christ as a loaf of bread made in Agege was too much for the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN). Thus, CAN's Secretary wrote, besides asking for the sack of the Chief Executive Officer of the Sterling Bank, Mr. Abubakar Suleiman, "The attention of the leadership of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) has been drawn to an ungodly, wicked, insensitive and deliberately provocative advertisement of the Sterling Bank comparing the resurrection of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ to *Agege Bread* amidst the Easter Celebration."
Please, note that the Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Abubakar Suleiman, at least, by name is a Muslim. Even if I don't believe in any religion, I will never ridicule or humiliate any believer. I am very certain that if Rasmus Paludan had stood at any public square in Sweden to read through his electronic amplifier from the Quran 7 : 80-84; 11 : 77-83; 21 : 74; 22 : 43; 26 : 165-175; 27 : 56-59; and 29 : 27-33, which are chapters and verses in the Quran that forbid homosexuality, he would have been arrested for hate speech. That was what happened to ask Swedish Pentecostal Pastor, Åke Green when on 20 July 2003 in a Church in Borgholm, Aland, preached from the pulpit thus : Is homosexuality something one chose, answer is yes. One chose it. One is not born with it ; Sexual abnormality is a deep cancer tumour in the body of the whole society. The Lord knows that sexually driven people will even rape animals ; By legitimizing partnership between man and man and between woman and woman, it will simply create catastrophes. Already, we see it through AIDS which is spreading. Now, not all AIDS afflicted are homosexuals, but it has originated on the ground of that once upon a time ; It is scandal to allow innocent children to be subjected to this torture. One violates a child by removing the child from parents, from mother and father, to two men or women ; and Now, I will emphasise that not all homosexuals are paedophiles. But still, one opens the gate to the forbidden areas and allow sin to take root in human thoughts. Pastor Green based his preaching from Church's pulpit on Bible's injunctions as per, Leviticus 18 : 22 and 20 :13; Deuteronomy 23 : 17-18; Romans 1 : 28 ; Corinthians 6 : 9-10; Genesis 1 : 27 and 2 : 24; and Revelation Chapter 21. Pastor Green was sentenced to prison for hate speech against the homosexual by a Kalmar Magistrate Court on 29 June 2004. Christians all over the U.S. began to demonstrate against the conviction of Pastor Green with placards reading 'Sweden the land of Sodomites' and Swedish Embassy and Consulates in the U.S. were besieged. Demonstrations did not stop until the Swedish High Court quashed the sentence on Pastor Green and freed him from any wrong doing for utilising the contents of the Bible to express his freedom of religion. If Rasmus Paludan had chosen other places than where the downtrodden Muslims in Sweden live to born the Quran, there would not have been any riot. A hyena that pursues a dog into the house must face the wrath of all the households.
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Shalom.
I hope you don’t mind. I couldn’t help but notice that the other day you signed off as “Toyim” - a typographical error I suppose, although at the time I couldn’t help thinking that “Toyim” rhymes with “ Goyim”, just as Shalom aleichem almost rhymes with Assalamu alaikum, which is the way that the Prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam greeted the Negus of Ethiopia, in his letter to him ( Some have argued that this means that the negus had actually embraced Islam...
N.B. In Judaism, the law of blasphemy is with regard to HASHEM, only.
BTW, do you know why Baruch Spinoza was “ excommunicated”?
Do you remember the public burning of Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses and the fatwa passed on Rush-die’s head, ironically referred to as “extreme forms of literary criticism” by the likes of V. S. Naipaul?
Talking about Muslim violence, and yes, Muslims are passionate people.
I suppose that you also remember the November 2002 Muslim Riots about that Miss World Pageant that was scheduled to be staged in Port Harcourt, which is in Nigeria?
I notice that you haven’t changed at all and that you’re still holding on to your old position which would have advised Rushdie not to worry, that no matter how many of his Satanic Verses they burned after he the Rushdie was dead and gone, the Quran would still reign supreme and remain transcendental after all…
This is serious: Here’s something about the Quran for you, O seeker of real knowledge!
In my humble opinion, the importance of the Quran in the life of Muslims, ought not to be belittled or disrespected, no matter who you think you are or believe yourself to be...
As you may or may not know, the Holy Quran has its own significant role in the lives of all Muslims and the whole of the Holy Quran is recited by Sunni Muslims in the Tarawih prayers during the month of Ramadan.
Today is the commencement of the last ten days of Ramadan and it is among the holiest prayer nights of Ramadan when the gates of mercy are open and waiting, especially the Lailatul Qadr – the night of power!
In so far as I endorse everything that Baba Kadiri has said on this topic so far, both here and in our life outside of this forum in our almost daily discussions (sadly, we haven’t talked for the past two days) could you kindly, please permit me to jump in here? In any case, I’ll leave you to the tender mercies of Baba Kadiri if he as much as deigns to respond to you in like manner.
When you say “Muslims”, in this context, I assume, of course, that you don't mean “ all Muslims” and that perhaps you are only referring to the ones who would like to take The Law, The Judgement and The Justice into their own hands and execute, give a one-way-ticket-to-hell to each and every God-forsaken miscreant who in any way vilifies or denigrates ALLAH, Islam, Quran, Rasulullah, inshallah alaihi wa salaam…
The word/ term aql ( intellect) is very important in the Quranic discourse - believe it or not, the word aql occurs 77 times in the Holy Quran.
You can’t miss that encounter if you care to read, study, and imbibe the Book of Allah that we’re talking about. And there have been profound discussions, in the Kalam, as to whether the Quran is the created or the uncreated word of God.
Surely, we are not about to begin that kind of discussion here or in Istanbul, or at Al-Azhar , University of Cairo, not to mention Madinah, Najaf, and the Islamic centres of learning in Qom and Mashhad ?
Once
you begin to digest that reality, you’ll
stop addressing Muslims as a lumpen set of ignoramuses directed
by a mob mentality, and you’d probably quit trying to teach Muslims
anything about the great
religion known as al Islam, or how Muslims should react when the Quran is being desecrated or the Prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam is being vilified. As it says in Surah Al- Ma'idah, Ayat
3:
I hope you understand the meaning of perfected and completed, and, should you decide to have a go at dabbling at Quranic hermeneutics don’t forget there’s the Zahir and the Batin….
Finally, I’d just like to say that in Sweden things are not as bad as they are being made out to be - ultimately the solution has to be in the law that is or should be designed to protect both the weak and the strong, the vulnerable and the powerful.
Good news: Rasmus Paludan: "The police took me into custody”
https://www.google.com/search?q=Paludan+%3APolisen+omhandertog+mig
https://www.dn.se/sverige/ammar-daoud-finns-ett-enormt-missnoje-hos-manga-muslimer-over-det-som-hant/ ( (you could Google translate)
The miscreant has been denied permission to demonstrate :
https://www.dn.se/sverige/malmo-stad-polisanmaler-rasmus-paludan-for-hets-mot-folkgrupp/
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/90204c83-906f-464f-8c7e-82c468a1191dn%40googlegroups.com.
Cornelius Hamelberg
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
To put you in a good mood:
You know how I honour and respect you. And respect begets respect.
When you say that “in writing about religion I respond as a student and practitioner of various religions”, it’s still not clear whether or not you are a practitioner of Islam - whether or not you have that inner understanding of Islam.
With Judaism, it’s about love of God . This is true of Sufism too
In Islam there’s also an enormous emphasis on love for Prophet Muhammad and in Shia Islam there’s great emphasis on love and veneration of the Ahlul-Bayt
O seeker of true knowledge (ILM) , you could find out more about this on AhlulBayt TV
Here’s the latest news on the Quran burnings in Sweden -
The other reprehensible thing was that the anti-Quran burning rioters attacked the Police who were only doing their duty.
Some of the issues raised in Thomas Nagel’s Mortal Questions ( immensely readable) are relevant to the matters of concern in this thread.
About human sacrifice and the way in which you venerate Western Civilization, don’t forget that Hitler was a vegetarian. Consider that and other ethical matters arising from the land of Beethoven and Mozart, the country of these great philosophers, these great writers, these great poets...
I agree with much of what you say, up to a point, but it seems that you expect a mass transformation of Islamists to your higher philosophical, and you know that cannot happen overnight. Try to answer Ojogbon Falaola’s ten questions, the outraged Bishop Kukah and Wole Soyinka’s latest.
The transformation of hearts and minds through the transcendental understandings that you preach is going to take time.
Otherwise, your own 21st-century voice is certainly, mostly one of reason, moderation and on the side of tolerance, amicable human relations, good neighbourliness, freedom of expression, the sanctity of life etc. - but for the maintenance of the social order and mutually cordial social relations, there has to be limits to tolerance and limits to freedom of expression, so that you do not hold public ceremonies for pissing on the grave of e.g a venerated ancestor in the name of asserting your right to do that as part of the freedom that you espouse for the peoples of all mankind.
Simply put, just as it’s not right that someone should have the right to burn a Holy Torah Scroll outside the Great Synagogue in Stockholm, so too the Swedish Police have done the right thing by reporting that bigoted, fat little worm, the pork-chopper known as Rasmus Paludan for incitement and hopefully he will face legal consequences for what he has done.
Someone should take him to court and press charges.
It should be a waste of money to put out a contract for his head...
From experience we all know what happens, beginning with the public disorder in the burning of Rushdie’s Satanic Verses, right through The Danish Cartoons, followed by the Charlie Hebdo shootings, and last but not least, Sweden’s impious Lars Vilk's drawings of the Prophet of Islam,
every time that there is a public display of virulent Islamophobia, some people get killed - martyred if you will, and many more get injured, Since the sanctity of human life is ideal, there ought to be laws in place which regulate and therefore ensure the greater safety of everybody.
Dear Oluwatoyin, May the Almighty shower His Blessings on us all and guide us rightly….
Cornelius Hamelberg
Sorry, the link wouldn’t click Here it is, the heart of the matter :
Salimonu Kadiri
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/HE1P193MB0076EE3D82E84BDEB6596463AEF99%40HE1P193MB0076.EURP193.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.