Personal : A brief reaction to Professor Falola’s Conversation with Bishop Kukah
Cornelius Hamelberg
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After it was announced, I was looking forward to what I was sure would be the mother of all interviews: Toyin Falola Interview: Conversations with Bishop Kukah – especially because Bishop Kukah is no stranger to controversy, Who else has dared to criticize President Buhari like his Northern Brother and in such a civilised manner? Hallelujah! I was not disappointed by either the interviewer or the interviewee!
According to St. John, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”
So, it comes as no surprise, after all, word is his profession. The man of the cloth and of the pulpit clearly loves talking, teaching, preaching, acclaiming, declaiming, explaining, pontificating from the pulpit that this interview venue provided him, pontificating like a Pontiff. Words spitting out of his mouth and in a voice and clear tones like the eloquent Aziz al-Azmeh, the last time I listened to him, live and direct, here in Stockholm (and got an autographed copy of his book Islams and Modernities - which he signed in green ink which made me miss-think that he’s a Muslim, but actually is not – he is a Syrian Christian)
So, at the outset let me correct that misleading headline. These were indeed very lengthy conversations which means that the available time and space and a lack of the sheer requisite mental energy will not permit me to do justice here, so I had better narrow it down, drastically narrow down my ambition, limit myself to only discussing the Holy Father’s reply to Professor Falola’s first question which was:
“Father Kukah, let me clear this question right away: Can we use religious platforms for radicalisation – and what would you say is your role when you climb the pulpit, is it to preach religion, is it for social order, and how can we prevent the use of that pulpit to incite non believers, or to provoke, or to destabilise?”
As Oprah Winfrey famously reacted: WHAT!?
The Holy father using his pulpit as a platform for radicalisation of the oppressed, incitement to action against non-believers, the provocation and destabilisation of the social order???
Hearing which question I thought that with the conscience of a Human Rights legislator, all that Professor Falola would have needed to do was to add one more dreaded word: “Terrorism!” Using the pulpit to inspire and incite terrorism - the kind of terrorism that we find many examples of here – and all over Nigeria, those random ransom kidnappings, and church arsons and inadvertent cattlemen encroachments and occupations. After asking such a long question I thought that the conscientious Professor could have at least been kind enough to warn the Bishop:
“You have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer the question. Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future.” … So that we don’t have a repeat of the Bishop Dom Helder Camara debacle; in his case, as he put it, “When I feed the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask, “ Why are the people hungry?”- they call me a Communist!” That was before the encyclical on “ The Dignity of labour “...
Professor Falola himself a prolific academic, premiere historian (who knows the history of Nigeria better than him?) literary author autobiographer, engaging, versatile political commentator at conference and popular press, a supremely moving eulogist of those recently de-ceased, it is my fervent hope that in range and scope The Toyin Falola Interviews will prove to be an important successor to The Chinua Achebe Foundation Interview Series which opened a window to showcase many facets of Nigeria through memorable in depth interviews with notable Nigerian shakers and movers from diverse walks of life.
Personally, I was expecting a first open-ended question such as requesting that Bishop Kukah make clear his own views on this famous Karl Marx Statement : "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people" – or the Bishop’s reaction to Fela’s “ Suffer, suffer for world, enjoy for Heaven“ especially, in view of the fact that on the whole/ more or less, the Catholic Church seems to be an enemy of Liberation Theology
But far from being an enemy of the people or an enemy of liberation Bishop Matthew Hassan Kukah has been more than an occasional commentator on the Nigerian political scene, and it may be that as the Roman Catholic Bishop of Sokoto which is the seat of what was not so long ago the epicentre of the Sokoto Caliphate and still is the epicentre of gravity of Islamic power in the Nigeria, the very outspoken Bishop Kukah by his status and thanks to the extensive power of the Catholic Church, he has become one of the untouchables, to the extent that he can speak fearlessly and to his heart’s content, confident that no security agents are going to arrest or detain him or touch a hair on his head – because of the inevitable international outcry from the Vatican (just as it is inconceivable that anyone is ever going to arrest any High Status Muslim Leader in Sokoto, or Kano; so, Nigeria being such a religion-conscious, religion-fixated nation - religion as an essential component of identity politics, when Bishop Kukah speaks, especially when he speaks truth to power, everybody pays attention - everybody, including his religious and political adversaries, they listen and hear; his words resound, echo, reverberate, hit home, find their mark in the dark and in the darkness and that’s why it’s no surprise that that was the first question from Balagha Falola, who says that he had to clear the path with that question, so that he would be free to begin the begin….
Needed: A little more dilating on that question to be continued and more importantly taking a less myopic look into the Bishop’s answer to that question and its implications for Baba Joe whose main concern being “What’s in it for me”? Or “ of what relevance is the learned Bishop's Tower of Babel babble to me? All I need is meat on the table!”
To date, reactions to the wide-ranging issues that were covered, are few – in the forum or in the comments section of the site itself, I guess because what was covered in those three hours, the time it takes to digest a hundred pages of lucid, unfettered, straightforward prose by the likes of Bertrand Russell , George Orwell, Noam Chomsky and lately Bernard Porter, it takes as much time to digest Bishop Kukah’s spontaneous spoken word and for the stardust from his ideas to settle - before we can even talk of their re-examination as in the usually closely knit argumentations of e.g. Jiddu Krishnamurti - somehow, you find yourself agreeing with him every step of the way, only later on to disagree with his conclusions.
So I find myself still reacting to Bishop Kukah’s response to Alagba Falola’s first open-ended question which was actually a Godsend that gave the Bishop another golden opportunity to use the interview as his pulpit to preach the radicalised word of his God.
Nigerians, just like other mortals from West, East and South Africa, not to mention the Rabbis through the centuries, love to argue through proverbs , as Achebe says, among the Igbos. “the palm oil with which words are eaten” and parables – like Jesus , loaded with similes and metaphors, at the end of the day delivering diagnoses and all manner of prescriptions, but who is going to take the medicine when the patient ( the country) refuses to do so? That is the question. I’m sorry about not having said anything so far. By the grace of our Almighty God that will be soon be amended.
Next : A look at the Bishop’s answer to that first question from the Alagba...
Cornelius Hamelberg
Clearing the air a little: A short preamble to discussing Bishop Kukah’s answer to the Alagba’s question numero uno…
In Yoruba, the words for scholar are many, testifying to their manifold existence, vastly in the plural and also testifying the importance of learning and wisdom in Yoruba culture. Thinking in terms of positive, comparative and superlative, “Alagba” is becoming a little too brittle, too commonplace and perhaps not doing justice to the intended more elevated titular distinction of an acknowledged Oba Sikolashipu - which apart from testifying to the existence of Kings and Kinship in Yoruba history also reserves the special, exalted “King – of scholarship” title, even if all men are equal, thereby distinguishing the sheep from the goats. A glorious title to which the ambitious (those reluctant to downsize ambition) could aspire or could be motivated to seek – for the good of all, including himself/ herself. In Judaic culture the Torah scholar is revered, just as the transmitter of the highest wisdom ought to be. In the Mecca of Rasulullah’s day, someone once rated as the wisest man in Mecca, on refusing to acknowledge the Prophethood of Islam's Last Prophet (salallahu alaihi wa salaam, was given the ignominious title of “Abu Jahl” (“Father of Ignorance”)
I am vastly impressed by the extent to which Quran and Hadith are liberally advanced in Professor Falola’s introduction to Part 2 of the Kukah Conversations; for those who cannot quite fathom the reason for that approach, without hesitation it is intended in the spirit of Bishop Kukah’s inter-faith work for unity, peace and harmony under one God, for which he is being praised so highly. We can take it as given that most religions are against corruption – so that most be a unifying ethic even if religions are not interchangeable. I was myself slightly disconcerted, more truthfully, I was completely taken aback, confused when I ran into one of Professor Björn Beckman’s graduate students in the underground, here in Stockholm, a tall, handsome, very dignified Hausa man who introduced himself as “Rev. Muhammad! ”. Rev Muhammad? I thought that the dude was joking, trying to pull my leg – maybe something of the Stockholm syndrome or the “When in Rome, be become a Roman!” and I’m convinced that there are no Rev Muhammads or Rev Farooqs in Saudi Arabia since it was the last wish of Allah’s Beloved Prophet, sallallahu alaihi wa salaam to rid the Hijaz ( the Arabian Peninsula) of Christians
In that question numero uno when the learned Professor teases Bishop Hassan Kukah with “and how can we prevent the use of that pulpit to incite non-believers'' – he fully understand (1) that from the Bishop’s classical Christian upbringing, Muslims rank among the “non-believers and unbelievers in “the blood of Jesus” and most certainly from the classical Islamic point of view anyone who does not follow the Last Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salaam, belongs to the rank and file Kuffar – and that would include the Rev Muhammads. Rev Abu Bakrs, the Rev Umars and the Rev Uthmans.. The juxtaposition of Rev against exalted historical Muslim personalities tantamount to not only oxymoronic folly but more accurately blasphemy. The wise cats and blithering idiots will be the first to parrot, “What’s in a name?”
These are delicate issues. Bishop Mathew Hassan Kukah of course cannot afford to ruffle feathers, he has to tread carefully, diplomatically, halal-ically, just as the Rabbis have to follow halacha...
According to proselyting Muslims doing their usual dawah, and they know, the questions in the grave are three, and the correct sincere answer to the last two will save you from the very real hellfire (My American friend who became a Muslim tells me that at the Catholic school he attended in California, they were being threatened with hell all the time - reminiscent of the Sermon in “Joyce’s Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man”, he says that some of the boys were so stressed out with fear that would be masturbating a couple of times a day….
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Biko Agozino
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Professor Extraordinaire,
You are the two-in-one: criminologist and sociologist, I should think with a particular emphasis
on corruption, looting, homicide, terrorism, genocide and where there is no justice, injustice…
When the guilty hear your name they tremble, in fulfilment of this proverb, “The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as Jah lion.”
These days, the person who says “ God Bless Nigeria” most frequently, is President Muhammadu Buhari. You are complaining that the Bishop said “ God willing” so many times? Well, during that marathon, three hour long conversation, how many times did you hear Kukah say “God bless Nigeria”? At a “hearing” even more important than what the criminal says is that which he does not say - so we keep our ears open for the crime of omissions. (My brother says that when a Muslim owes you money and he says that he’s going to pay you and adds “InshAllah” ( God-willing) , what he really means is that he has no intention of paying you , but if you are lucky, InshAllah, it could happen. The InshAllah is pious dissimulation which can be practised on the kuffar. Like the colonial debt and reparations for slavery, when? InshAllah
When a man of the cloth starts dabbling in politics what and who is he? Did Jesus dabble in politics? No! Jesus said, “My Kingdom is not of this world.” Jesus said, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's"
Because the eyes of the Vatican are on him he probably doesn’t have that much leeway as some of his fans imagine, especially if he wants to join the ranks of Nigerian cardinals such as Arinze (an intellectual giant -. like Ratzinger); but he’s probably content with his bishopric. When a Bishop dabbles in politics he might find himself in a dilemma similar to that of Thomas Becket , find himself facing some thorny questions:
"The last temptation is the greatest treason – to do the right thing for the wrong reason”
Please don’t forget that Kukah is not Bishop of Nigeria, he is merely Bishop of Sokoto. For the time being that’s his portion on mother earth in the heartland of Dar al Islam’s Caliphate; I see him as an already strategically compromised figure, another good man ardently praying the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi.
With youth unemployment at 38%, and the price of oil going down, the time is ripe, the conditions are right, I’d like to see you moderate a symposium with him and Omoyele Sowore, throw in the joker Nnamdi Kanu and Abubakar Shekau, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju, Kalabari Brother Mujahid Dokubo-Asari and last but not least Sanusi Lamido Sanusi the probable next president of Nigeria, you should be the neutral one to moderate their discussion on revolution, crime and punishment, secession, education, spiritual regeneration, the future direction for the project Nigeria.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/1624551406.3970998.1616258173393%40mail.yahoo.com.
Cornelius Hamelberg
Professor Extraordinaire & Plenipotentiary,
As a postscript, take note that maybe we should not put so much emphasis on questioning the wisdom in “Man proposes, God disposes” which, all things considered, more or less translates as “B'ezrat Hashem”, “InshAllah", “God willing”, “By the grace of God” and even “Amen!”
Right now, this is a relevant example of “Man proposes, God disposes”:
I had long planned to attend your zoom session on the Friday, 19th March, 2021 at 1700hrs GMT - the same as Swedish Winter Time, but the following things happened: A few days ago, I got a phone call that I was to report to my local hospital to receive my first shot of the Corona vaccine on Friday, 19th March, 2021 at 2. 15, which I dutifully did - received the first shot of the Moderna vaccine (didn’t even feel the jab) did the mandatory staying for observation for 15 minutes after the jab - Baruch Hashem, not even any mild symptoms (after being inundated by so many conspiracy theories, some, that so many people had died on the spot, immediately after being vaccinated, so I had told my Better Half before I departed for the hospital, that if I did not come back she was to know that these past 52 years I had truly loved her, but not to worry, no matter what we would be together again in the Olam Ha-Ba. I eventually got back home in the nick of time - candle-lighting time for Stockholm was 17.42 GMT. I trust that the session went well and was recorded and that you’ll post it to the forum or Facebook, or?
So many seers on Sid Roth’s It’s Supernatural, who had not prophetised the Corona Pandemic or the murder of George Floyd had prophesied that hands down Donald Trump was going to trounce Sleepy Joe Biden by a landslide, and many believers fell for their prophecies: even our local (far from the scene of the crime) Chief Fani-Kayode was hopeful, and if he had been vindicated, he would now be strutting or flying around all over the place, boasting about it (and so would I - in my case, I thought that Trump being such a good friend of Israel, the US Embassy moved to Jerusalem, a settlement in the Golan Heights named after him (“Trump Heights”) and a train station in Jerusalem to be named after him, God must surely be on his side, since he was obviously on God’s side - so it seemed – manifestly on the side of God and His Chosen people!)
Of course, everybody, including the devil and his agents are said to have “free will” even if that could be in conflict with other people’s ideas about “predestination”, what mockers often criticize as “Islamic fatalism” centred on the various meanings of QADR, possibly based on that infinite series of cause and effect which started so religiously, from the so called “First Cause” that set everything in motion…
About the Biafran Holocaust/ genocide, you are not alone in your despair; there’s all that Holocaust Theology still grappling with the question of where was the Almighty when Mister Hitler and his Nazis were busy decimating two thirds of Europe’s Jewry?
On the individual personal scale, there’s so much philosophizing on “Why bad things happen to good people” and “When bad things happen to good people”
It’s time for Pastor Adeboye and all the Bishops of Nigeria to say, “Let us pray”. As every ignoramus knows, the next Nigerian Presidential elections will be The Mother Of All Elections. Hopefully, Nigeria will soon get the Government that Nigerians deserve...
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biko...@yahoo.com
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