Ham It Up v1.0 - RF Upconverter

[Lasse radio]

Anyone using the Ham-it-up-converter from nooelec?  Is it good?

Lasse

[Isaac Gerg]

I have one on the way.  Send me an email in a few days if no one else replies.

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Lasse radio <lasse...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anyone using the Ham-it-up-converter from nooelec?  Is it good?

Lasse

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[Lasse radio]

Great! I'm eager to hear your verdict.

Lasse

[Harold Chan]

I have ordered one too. But it takes time to ship from Canada to Hong Kong.

[Isaac Gerg]

FWIW, I have one these... http://www.ebay.com/itm/DBM-HF-Converter-for-RTL2832U-E4000-RTLSDR-SDR-Radio-FUNcube-Ezcap-HAM-R820T-DVB-/170927189162?pt=US_Ham_Radio_Receivers&hash=item27cc0decaa

I use it regularly and love it.  Just make sure you are shielding your equipment as much as you can.

Isaac

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[Lasse radio]

Thanks for the tip. They got lousy feedback on one converter (damaged) and they are far from any experts.  Nooelec that sells the Ham-it-up do have great feedback and are selling a lot of SDR related product, so my bets are on them.  

Lasse

[Antonio Matias]

I must say.

I have seen more then 3 copys of my converter on the internet.

But this Ham IT UP is  the best copy of my converter i have seen.  hihi

best 73

Tony

http://www.ct1ffu.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=178:coverter&catid=38:artigos

2012/10/19 Lasse radio <lasse...@gmail.com>

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António Matias

CT1FFU - CR5A 

www.dxpatrol.com 

QRV: HF, 6m, 4m,2m,70cm,23cm

SSB, CW, MGM

DX, EME, Contest,Sat.

POBOX-38

2504-909

Caldas da Rainha

Portugal

[Lasse radio]

Thanks Tony. I did not know that the original one was yours. Well, I have ordered the Ham-it-up now mostly because it's cheaper and I need two.

Lasse

[Antonio Matias]

Hi lasse

Carefull with that LO on 100mhz

YOu might found some FM music  on 40m band.

Anyway, it looks good.

enjoy.

73

Tony

2012/10/20 Lasse radio <lasse...@gmail.com>

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[Lasse radio]

I have a 88-108 mhz filter on the way. I hope that works to minimize that FM BC...

Lasse

[Isaac Gerg]

I found that using a shielding SMA cable along with a shielded/choked USB cable got rid of all my FM interference in the "88-108" MHz band.

Isaac

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[Dragan]

Why do you think that this is a copy of your converter?
Their build log is pretty extensive: http://code.google.com/p/opendous/wiki/Upconverter_Testing

[Varda]

All of those converters use similar designs, the main differences are the choices of components. So they are all copying each other.

[Lasse radio]

I got the Ham-it-up converter today and have tested it. It works perfectly. A quick comparison between my Yaesu FRG7 and the SDR Dongle with upconverter shows no noticeable difference in sensitivity.  I have them both running at the same time and strong and weak signals are about equal on both. So that is a bit surprising and great. The only difference is that the SDR is, what is seems right now at first glance,  a bit more sensitive to RFI.  But I'm very pleased... :-)

Lasse

[Lasse radio]

An update to my first impression of the Ham It Upconverter. I have been using it for a few days and I'm really impressed. I have not compared my SDR/Upconv with my FRG7 on all frequencies, but t looks like my SDR is more sensitive than the FRG7. I manage dig out weaker stations with my SDR than is possible to even hear with my analog rig. I'm using SDRSharp and that works perfectly.  My setup is not optimal, but works. I have the SDR and upconverter in my kitchen, close to my antenna input from the garden and  as far away from any computer as possible. I'm using a USB repeater cable from the SDR to my computer. I'm still waiting for the RFI ferrite beads to arrive.

But the bottomline, this SDR/Ham-It Upconverter will most certainly replace my FRG and other analog electromechanical rigs. 

Lasse

[Isaac Gerg]

There's a really informal comparison of ham it up vs janielectronics
upconveter...

http://imgur.com/a/OLjPl

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[Harold Chan]

I have got the board, and it seems it works. But I found that it is not possible to receive any meaning signal.

I would like to ask, is it true that no HF can be received by using the antenna that comes with the stick?

[Priyasloka Arya]

our friend group has decided each one of us will different up converter, i have gone with Ham it up(wait for delivery), my another friend will order Tony's and another will order Janielectronics one

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ultra-cheap-sdr/-/rEqBtte_9osJ.

[jdow]

It is very, extraordinarly, supercalifragilisticexpialidociousle true that
you'll not get meaningful reception with an antenna that short.

{O.O} Joanne, W6MKU

On 2012/11/02 19:27, Harold Chan wrote:
> I have got the board, and it seems it works. But I found that it is not possible
> to receive any meaning signal.
>
> I would like to ask, is it true that no HF can be received by using
> the antenna that comes with the stick?
>
> On Friday, October 19, 2012 11:53:17 AM UTC+8, Harold Chan wrote:
>
> I have ordered one too. But it takes time to ship from Canada to Hong Kong.
>
> On Friday, October 19, 2012 7:46:11 AM UTC+8, Lasse radio wrote:
>
> Great! I'm eager to hear your verdict.
>
> Lasse
>
> On Friday, October 19, 2012 1:40:04 AM UTC+2, Isaac Gerg wrote:
>
> I have one on the way. Send me an email in a few days if no one
> else replies.
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Lasse radio <lasse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone using the Ham-it-up-converter from nooelec? Is it good?
>
> Lasse
>
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[Lasse radio]

You won't get anything with that little default antenna stick. Connect  5 meter wire to the RF input on the converter and you get at least some signal to test it with.  Best thing is a 10-20m longwire out in your garden.

Lasse

[Lasse radio]

If you use a 10-20 m longwire it would be good to use a non galvanic connection between the longwire and the RF input to be safe and save the converter from static buildup which can be quite large at times. You can use an unun to get rid of the static http://www.m0ukd.com/Magnetic_Long_Wire_UnUn/index.php  Remember to uncouple the antenna completely when there is a risk of ligthning.

Lasse

[Isaac Gerg]

Check this out.

http://www.reddit.com/r/RTLSDR/comments/12ebes/informal_upconverter_comparison_janielectronics/

[Lasse radio]

Same link as you posted before what I can see...

Lasse

[Harold Chan]

It is sad that I am living in Hong Kong, such a crowded city. It is quite possible to have long wire set up.

I doubt how AM radio works, they do not have a long antenna. How do they work?

[Paulino Kenji Sato]

Hi,

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Harold Chan <cmkg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is sad that I am living in Hong Kong, such a crowded city. It is quite
> possible to have long wire set up.
>
>
> I doubt how AM radio works, they do not have a long antenna. How do they
> work?

MW radio uses a so called Loopstick antenna, a magnetic loop antenna
with ferrite core.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ferrite_antenna.jpg

For SW (Short Wave) a small loop antenna can build using a coaxial
cable (only shield), and a 150pF variable capacitor.
http://www.kr1st.com/swlloop.htm
http://www.g4fon.net/MagLoopTwo.htm

Loop antenna are ideal for use in crowded cities.
I use one on the edge of the window of my apartment.
Loop antenna have less gain than wire dipole.
It is tuned, and act as pre selector, reducing some unwanted noise (RFI).

Or, buy one, like a Degen DE31, or similar.
http://www.amazon.com/Kaito-Amplified-Shortwave-Antenna-KA31/dp/B000B8PBLO/
http://www.alexloop.com/

Paulino

[jdow]

Strong signals and relatively weak (loopstick) antenna. They take a
ferrite bar and wrap wire around it to make a combination inductor
and antenna.

{^_^} Joanne, W6MKU

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[Lasse radio]

But you don't need a ferrite antenna (loopstick) to recieve AM broadcast.  A few meters of wire is enough for the stronger stations.  

Lasse

[jdow]

I quote myself, "Strong signals..."

Seems I was there already. The ferrite loopsticks help. But they're not
necessarily enough for medium frequency DX. Automobiles have short
antennas that are resonated as a means of matching them to the radio's
input.

Now, even an automobile antenna can "theoretically" perform almost on a
par with a full size dipole. But, that presumes you build a super-
conducting matching circuit. The reactance of such a tiny antenna is
so ferociously large matching circuitry involves a lot of loss. And
a lack of matching circuitry involves even more loss yet.

MANA GAL (there is a free version) and EZNEC are very addictive toys
if you want to get into antennas. If you do you can even experiment
with designs that are supposed to be nearly magic and discover that
Poynting was absolutely correct, you cannot get more out of an antenna
than you put into it.

In general a 5" stub is not going to perform very well when feeding a
low pass filter input to a double balanced diode muxer (or even a
Gilbert quad.)

{^_-} Joanne, W6MKU

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[Robert Nickels]

The effective length of an antenna can be expressed as the ratio of
voltage at the antenna output to the field strength of the radiated
signal, and can be further estimated by determining the capacitance of
the antenna system. For example, a 1 meter whip and it's mounting
means might have a capacitance of 20pf. At the center of the broadcast
band (1 Mhz), this represents an impedance of about 8000 ohms, which if
connected directly to a 50 ohm receiver antenna input will create a
large mismatch and loss of signal.

The common solution for using short antennas at longer wavelengths is an
active antenna, which incorporates an amplifier that provides the
necessary impedance matching and a little gain. The best explanation
and design resource I've found on practical active antennas are the two
articles by R.W. Burhans that were published in Radio Electronics
magazine in 1983. They can be downloaded, along with many others, here:
http://www.rsl.ku.edu/~eecs501/active_antennas/

I've build many Burhans antennas, as have many other LF listeners and he
does the best job of describing how to raise the intercept point to
minimize IMD and how to use simple filters to tailor the response of the
antenna to your listening preferences. There are simpler and more
complex designs, but the physics is the same. Active antennas can work
quite well from VLF through the HF range, but are not a panacea for all
antenna woes.

73, Bob W9RAN

[jdow]

The only reason the active antenna works in that configuration is the
high ambient noise (from all sources including storms, galactic noise,
etc) on low frequencies. If you have 20dB loss that's OK because the
ambient noise level is 20dB or so above Boltzmann (thermal) noise.

Regardless, you can't put a tiny stub on a double balanced mixer input
and expect stellar performance or much of any performance at all.

{^_^}

[Andy Pep]

i have just got my nooelec ham it up upconverter a few days ago.. only took 6 days from the usa to uk :)..it works really well i am useing a 9to1 unun to balance the impeadence of the wire to the feed it is an untuned 20 meter bit of copper i have had hanging around ..plugged a 50ohm feed in to the upconverter and wow it really comes alive....but i do have a little advice on how to get it working a lot better..for one done use the usb power from any pc hub or anyting it will inject noise in to it ...i have mine running on 3 aa cells just fine..the noise floor drops also (great for dx) ... i have just uploaded more clips usring the r820t ham it upconverter sdrsharp 1.0036 http://www.youtube.com/user/moonfestmadness?feature=mhee

[Lasse radio]

Just to show the difference, that Andy is mentioning, between USB power and 3 AA batteries. The noise floor is considerably lower. 

Difference between 3 AA batteries and USB power

Lasse

[Priyasloka Arya]

Find attached HAM IT UP test results from my side, i intended to do more tests. i could pick up strong local MF station, here i doubt i need to have good antenna. I use long wire antenna.

 

 

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[q...@kd4e.com]

Any follow-up re. the comparison of the three different versions of this converter?

Inquiring minds want to know ...

Thanks!

[Priyasloka Arya]

could not do much, friends wanted to go for HAM IT UP.

I have few questions , i would like to know from user of ham it up how their reception is for <1 MHz(MW broadcast channels) and frequency below< 7 Mhz.

 I am trying to use ham it up as 7Mhz transmitter (as suggested by opendous in sdrhsarp group) using FM transmitter(88-108 MHz) and ham it up in downconverter mode

 

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[stefan05]

For your friends: My experience is that reception of stations below 7 MHz was
originally very disappointing, because of strong perturbations caused by
local FM broadcast stations in the range 87 to 107 MHz.
But there is a cure. I removed the 100 MHz oscillator module and replaced it
by a 120 MHz oscillator module.
Now it works really well, even at frequencies under 7 MHz
Good luck..

[Priyasloka Arya]

Thanks for the reply. I have some 8/10 FM stations within 10 km radius of my place. My experience for below 8 Mhz reception was discouraging. I did ask Ham it up guys, they said up converter have a BPF in the front which might be the culprit.

 
I was trying get a cheap FM trap from Radio Shack (from US). i am happy to hear about your result , could you tell me part/make number of your 120 Mhz oscillator module.

 

Thanks

Priyasloka Arya

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[Arnold Podolsky M.D.,J.D.]

Where did you get the 120mhz oscillator module?

73..Arnie W8DU

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[KD9GN]

I have a Ham-it-up and even with very strong local FM broadcast have not
had that many issues because of FM broadcasts but a local AM station has
causes a lot of problems. I am still working a filter. Overall, I am
very happy with the performance. It even picks up a local CW NAV beacon
on 329 Khz at our local airport.

I am curious, where did you get your 120 Mhz Oscillator module? I may
try that as well.

73-Dave
KD9GN

On 02/09/2013 09:04 AM, stefan05 wrote:
> For your friends: My experience is that reception of stations below 7
> MHz was
> originally very disappointing, because of strong perturbations caused by
> local FM broadcast stations in the range 87 to 107 MHz.
> But there is a cure. I removed the 100 MHz oscillator module and
> replaced it
> by a 120 MHz oscillator module.
> Now it works really well, even at frequencies under 7 MHz
> Good luck..
>

> Le vendredi 19 octobre 2012 00:51:14 UTC+2, Lasse radio a �crit :

>
> Anyone using the Ham-it-up-converter from nooelec? Is it good?
>
> Lasse
>

[jdow]

I'm sure I have one in my junk box somewhere.... I pull such things from
dead motherboards before junking them.

{O.O}

On 2013/02/09 07:35, Arnold Podolsky M.D.,J.D. wrote:
> Where did you get the 120mhz oscillator module?
> 73..Arnie W8DU
>
> On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 4:04 AM, stefan05 <dst...@gmail.com
> <mailto:dst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> For your friends: My experience is that reception of stations below 7 MHz was
> originally very disappointing, because of strong perturbations caused by
> local FM broadcast stations in the range 87 to 107 MHz.
> But there is a cure. I removed the 100 MHz oscillator module and replaced it
> by a 120 MHz oscillator module.
> Now it works really well, even at frequencies under 7 MHz
> Good luck..
>

> Le vendredi 19 octobre 2012 00:51:14 UTC+2, Lasse radio a �crit :

>
> Anyone using the Ham-it-up-converter from nooelec? Is it good?
>
> Lasse
>
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[Opendous]

>where did you get your 120 Mhz Oscillator module?

  DigiKey can program a SGR-8002DC-SC blank oscillator for you.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SGR-8002DC-SCB/SGR-8002DC-SCB-ND
http://www5.epsondevice.com/en/quartz/product/osc/programmable/sg8002dc_db.html

  My concern is that at 120MHz the LO will be attenuated 20.7dB to -3dBm.  The mixer will work but ideally you want to feed it a +7dBm LO.  This will move the 1dB compression point to about -9dBm so even weaker signals will be able to overload the mixer.
http://code.google.com/p/opendous/source/browse/trunk/Current_Designs/Upconverter/Upconverter_LO_Filter_Testing_Results-VNWA_Data.s2p#1368

  If you do attempt the 120MHz Epson oscillator and it doesn't work great, the following two inductors can replace L13 and L1 to increase the LO level ~8dB:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PM0805-6N8M-RC/M8452CT-ND
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PM0805-47NM-RC/M8459CT-ND
http://code.google.com/p/opendous/wiki/Upconverter_Testing#Increasing_LO_Level

  I am interested to hear how well this works.

[jdow]

Mouser is often cheaper than DigiKey.

Weaker signals overload the dongles anyway so I'd not worry a whole lot.

{^_^}

[Priyasloka Arya]

In DIGIKEY , the item is out of stock it seems, anyother place where we could get it

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[stefan05]

Hello Arya, hello Arnie,
The 120 MHz oscillator module I use is a 14 pin DIL module labelled "3XO-12C
120.000 MHz CC3 FI".
I found it at a local radio parts shop in France.
A Google search about it returned this:
http://www.comtec-crystals.com/docs/G/G003579545BBCUPN00BA.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Regarding interferences by local stations and local noise, I found by
experimentation that the way you implement the connection between the
Ham-it-Up converter and the DVB-T stick is really critical. Best results when
it is short and well shielded.
--------------------------------------------------

[Priyasloka Arya]

Hi Stefan

Thanks for your reply.

 

i have R820T dongle which is MCX female. I have connected a cable MCX male to BNC male then BNC female to SMA male adaptor ro connect to HAM it up.

 

It is true that when ham it up is  switched off or in pass through mode i received FM signal but when i disconnect all the cables, adaptor and ham it up i do not received FM.

 

I did a search one the Comtec site, the right product could be http://www.comtec-crystals.com/docs/G/GBA.htm

I am trying to get  one in India, not sure i will get or not.

 

Thanks

Priyasloka Arya

 

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[Arnie]

Unfortunately, my junkbox is not that deep. I am looking for a source to buy 1.

Tnx...Arnie W8DU

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 5:37 PM, jdow <jd...@earthlink.net> wrote:

I'm sure I have one in my junk box somewhere.... I pull such things from
dead motherboards before junking them.

{O.O}

On 2013/02/09 07:35, Arnold Podolsky M.D.,J.D. wrote:

Where did you get the 120mhz oscillator module?
73..Arnie W8DU

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 4:04 AM, stefan05 <dst...@gmail.com

<mailto:dst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    For your friends: My experience is that reception of stations below 7 MHz was
    originally very disappointing, because of strong perturbations caused by
    local FM broadcast stations in the range 87 to 107 MHz.
    But there is a cure. I removed the 100 MHz oscillator module and replaced it
    by a 120 MHz oscillator module.
    Now it works really well, even at frequencies under 7 MHz
    Good luck..

    Le vendredi 19 octobre 2012 00:51:14 UTC+2, Lasse radio a écrit :

        Anyone using the Ham-it-up-converter from nooelec?  Is it good?

        Lasse

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[Arnold Podolsky M.D.,J.D.]

The socket on the Ham-it-up v1.0 board is a 8-pin DIL. How did you fit a 14 pin DIL into it?

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[Priyasloka Arya]

It is a 4 pin device what I saw in comtec site.

[Nick Strong]

Hi Just letting you all know  I use a 125MHz oscillator in my designs as it gets the output signal away from the VHF BB. so reducing its effects. I found in practice it was a great improvement over a 100MHz unit.

 

I got my "module" off E-Bay at a very reasonable price most configurations are available just use the search string "crystal oscillator"

 

I agree most of the designs fall into two groups those using an SBL-1 and those using a silicon fuse!.

 

FYI my designs are on "makearadio.com" at

 

http://makearadio.com/visitors/index-nick.php

 

The Mk2 seems to be the most popular, the MK3 is basically just a switched receive converter but it is all in one small box (including the dongle) feel free to have a look and download the full plans

 

Hope this information is of use

 

73 and good luck de Nick G0CWA

 

On Saturday, 9 February 2013 09:04:55 UTC, stefan05 wrote:

My experience is that reception of stations below 7 MHz was
originally very disappointing, because of strong perturbations caused by
local FM broadcast stations in the range 87 to 107 MHz.
But there is a cure. I removed the 100 MHz oscillator module and replaced it
by a 120 MHz oscillator module.
Now it works really well, even at frequencies under 7 MHz
Good luck..

Lasse

[q...@kd4e.com]

I am confused - what is the matching device form-factor, please?

> The socket on the Ham-it-up v1.0 board is a 8-pin DIL. How did you fit a
> 14 pin DIL into it?
>
> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 4:27 AM, stefan05 <dst...@gmail.com
> <mailto:dst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello Arya, hello Arnie,
> The 120 MHz oscillator module I use is a 14 pin DIL module labelled
> "3XO-12C
> 120.000 MHz CC3 FI".
> I found it at a local radio parts shop in France.
> A Google search about it returned this:
> http://www.comtec-crystals.com/docs/G/G003579545BBCUPN00BA.htm



--

Thanks! & 73, KD4E.com
David Colburn nevils-station.com
I don't google I SEARCH! duckduckgo.com
Network: groups.yahoo.com/group/qrv
Restored to design-spec at Heaven's gate 1Cor15:22

[stefan05]

For Arnie:
The adaptor was made up of one DIL 14 pin socket and two small pieces of naked wire taken from a 1/4 Watt resistor.
See the pictures

[Arnold Podolsky M.D.,J.D.]

Thanks Stefan! That was very helpful and I have ordered an oscillator.

73..Arnie W8DU

[Priyasloka Arya]

Hi Arnie
Just curious from where you have ordered the item.comtec site or

Regards
Arya

[Opendous Support]

>In DIGIKEY, the item is out of stock it seems, anyother place where we could get it

It is a "Value Added Item" as they program it for you. You won't
know whether it is stocked until after you order. If you don't get a
shipment confirmation within a couple of days you can cancel the
order.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SGR-8002DC-SCB/SGR-8002DC-SCB-ND

>Mouser is often cheaper than DigiKey

I was able to find a QFN oscillator at Mouser but no luck with
Half-Size or Full-Size DIP.
http://us.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=SiT8002AC-43-33E-125

RS Components has QFN oscillators:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/crystal-oscillators/7208838/
http://in.rsdelivers.com/product/taitien/ovetgljtnf-12500mhz/xo-smd-33v-5x32-12500mhz/7208838.aspx

Farnell has QFN oscillators with high stability (+/-25ppm):
http://in.element14.com/txc/ta-125-000mbd-t/oscillator-mems-cmos-125mhz-smd/dp/2100433
http://in.element14.com/fox-electronics/fxo-hc736r-125/hcmos-oscillator-125mhz-smd/dp/2058106
http://uk.farnell.com/txc/tc-125-000mbd-t/oscillator-mems-cmos-125mhz-smd/dp/2100516

Unfortunately for Priyasloka, shipping charges to India are very
high (>$40) or unknown until deep into the payment process.

Oscillator stability has the greatest impact on mixer performance so
favour the most stable oscillator you can purchase.

That is a really neat Full-Size to Half-Size adaptor, stefan05. If
you shift it rightward so that GND and OUT are in the socket while VCC
and EN are wire leads you may get better stability and lower noise.

[Arnold Podolsky M.D.,J.D.]

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/JX5011C0120.000000/JX5011C0120.000000CT-ND/2835473

[stefan05]

Thanks for your comments about the 14 pin to 8 pin adapter.
Now I have 2 questions:
1) About the use of an Up-Converter with SDRSharp:
  Is there a simple means to systematically substract the LO frequency from the frequency display in SDRSharp?
2) about the RTL Sticks themselves:
Would their sensitivity be sufficient to listen to Ham radio satellites "barefoot" (without Low Noise Preamp)?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Arnie]

1. Yes. It is right up near the top on the left, check "offset" and enter the LO frequency as a negative number. For example, if the LO was 110 mhz, you would enter "-110,000,000."

2. I don't know about the ham sats because I have not tried that. It works great on HF using the ham-it-up converter with a vertical groundplane for 40m.

--Arnie W8DU

--

[jdow]

1) Yes.

2) Yes.

Oh, you wanted details? {^_-}

"Shift" is your friend. Set that appropriately and you'll be happy.

And add a good antenna and you should do OK with satellites. But a
10 dB preamp near the antenna might be a good investment if you have
a lot of cable. The RTL sticks have "decent" but not excellent LNAs
built in. And they overload easily. So go gently with any external
amplifiers you add.

{^_^}

On 2013/02/11 12:37, stefan05 wrote:
> Thanks for your comments about the 14 pin to 8 pin adapter.
> Now I have 2 questions:
> 1) About the use of an Up-Converter with SDRSharp:
> Is there a simple means to systematically substract the LO frequency from the
> frequency display in SDRSharp?
> 2) about the RTL Sticks themselves:
> Would their sensitivity be sufficient to listen to Ham radio satellites
> "barefoot" (without Low Noise Preamp)?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>

> Le vendredi 19 octobre 2012 00:51:14 UTC+2, Lasse radio a �crit :

[darky]

Wow man! This radio is from the 70 - ties ( http://www.rigpix.com/yaesu/frg7.htm ) I am not surprised that RTL dongle is working better - no one really knows how far from spec is your RFG7, you know all caps tend to change over time, coils can be de-tuned, transistors degrade, ICs are probably also degraded - this radio is over 30 years old :) and from todays standards most of ham DYI constructions are much more sofisticated and with better quality. I was not born when they design it :) 

 

Seriously speaking those dongles are not very sensitive. Probably with the LPF and BPF in the upconverter they get less sensitive to interference, but anyway the ADC is still low resolution ( low SNR, low dynamic range ), USB powered so picking up a lot of noise from PC, mine get really hot so a lot of thermal noise in the silicon ...

 

Bottom line - the dongle is a great toy, it makes a lot of fun, but don't expect miracles. I would not think to compare it to real radio with or without the funny upconverter. it is a great demonstrator to SDR technology and is relatively wide bandwith, you can stream about 2 MHz bandwith. Actually it is one of the few affordable real SDRs ( those working with sound card I would not call SDRs ).

 

I think about a real SDR design, but this is another topic, not for here yet.

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 2:16:09 PM UTC+1, Lasse radio wrote:

An update to my first impression of the Ham It Upconverter. I have been using it for a few days and I'm really impressed. I have not compared my SDR/Upconv with my FRG7 on all frequencies, but t looks like my SDR is more sensitive than the FRG7. I manage dig out weaker stations with my SDR than is possible to even hear with my analog rig. I'm using SDRSharp and that works perfectly.  My setup is not optimal, but works. I have the SDR and upconverter in my kitchen, close to my antenna input from the garden and  as far away from any computer as possible. I'm using a USB repeater cable from the SDR to my computer. I'm still waiting for the RFI ferrite beads to arrive.

But the bottomline, this SDR/Ham-It Upconverter will most certainly replace my FRG and other analog electromechanical rigs. 

Lasse

[darky]

On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 4:05:35 AM UTC+1, Harold Chan wrote:

It is sad that I am living in Hong Kong, such a crowded city. It is quite possible to have long wire set up.

I doubt how AM radio works, they do not have a long antenna. How do they work?

 

They have ferrite rod antenna inside - not practical for low power ham signals. AM stations were transmitting with kilowats to overcome terrain and insensitive cheap radios. Probably in your case the best solution is shorted HF vertical - the antenna is shorter then electrical equivalent so will loose some efficiency but because it is shorter you can transport it easily. I have seen such used with mobile HF radios.

 

 

On Saturday, November 3, 2012 9:48:20 PM UTC+8, Lasse radio wrote:

You won't get anything with that little default antenna stick. Connect  5 meter wire to the RF input on the converter and you get at least some signal to test it with.  Best thing is a 10-20m longwire out in your garden.

Lasse

[Lasse radio]

On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:01:23 PM UTC+1, darky wrote:

Wow man! This radio is from the 70 - ties ( http://www.rigpix.com/yaesu/frg7.htm ) I am not surprised that RTL dongle is working better - no one really knows how far from spec is your RFG7, you know all caps tend to change over time, coils can be de-tuned, transistors degrade, ICs are probably also degraded - this radio is over 30 years old :) and from todays standards most of ham DYI constructions are much more sofisticated and with better quality. I was not born when they design it :) 

 

Gives you some idea about this old useless radio that was designed before you was born... http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/979  

Bytheway, my FRG has all the caps replaced...

Lasse

[jdow]

On 2013/03/12 15:06, Lasse radio wrote:
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:01:23 PM UTC+1, darky wrote:
>
> Wow man! This radio is from the 70 - ties (

> http://www.rigpix.com/yaesu/frg7.htm <http://www.rigpix.com/yaesu/frg7.htm>

> ) I am not surprised that RTL dongle is working better - no one really knows
> how far from spec is your RFG7, you know all caps tend to change over time,
> coils can be de-tuned, transistors degrade, ICs are probably also degraded
> - this radio is over 30 years old :) and from todays standards most of ham
> DYI constructions are much more sofisticated and with better quality. I was
> not born when they design it :)
>
>
> Gives you some idea about this old useless radio that was designed before you
> was born... http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/979
> Bytheway, my FRG has all the caps replaced...
>
> Lasse

More like half my age old. I'm not useless yet. It isn't even empty state
self-warming electronics. It even has a frequency synthesizer, of sort,
for the first conversion at 1 MHz steps. However, it is not going to be
nearly as stable as even an RTL based dongle.

Now, I have played with electronics designed and built before I was born.
That was somewhat more primitive, to be polite. The old ARC-5 radios
preceded me by a little bit. They were nice for their era and did their
job astonishingly well compared to their predecessors.

Youngsters --- phiu!

{^_-} Joanne, W6MKU

[Tsvetelin Velkov]

Guys, world had changed! Do so! I am convinced that not all of old
designs were bad, actially there are some classics which changed the
way and were very innovative and successful ( at their time! ). I also
like the feel of old Kenwood radios. But most of the old crap is just
that - crap, even if it was perfect radio 30 years is a lot of time
and electronics is not designed to last forever. Some years ago I also
tried old military radios, they were available and cheap, but 20 - 30
years old design ( from today perespective these are 30 years old as
design! production age maybe 25 - 27 ) is hard to keep up and running,
complicated construction, no spare parts, hard to tune, ... forget it,
put it in the museum and take a new thing.

I read that you changed the caps. This is a good step in the right
direction, the next step is to make sure that all tunung is done
according to service manual. The question is do you have the test
equipment needed?

25 is a pefect age for a woman, but a terible one for a piece of tech
( car or electronics )

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[jdow]

Sexist. {^_-}

Actually if he can pull signals off the 54 MHz IF it might make a
very nice front end for a dongle. An E4000 might make it there.
An R820T would. The FRG7's crystal stabilized first mixer will do
fairly good with the dongles. Calibrate the dongle first then the
FRG7. Results will be fairly good and stable enough to handle
SSB adequately if not as nice as I personally like. (If you can
get SSB tuned in to around one Hz accuracy it can sound pretty
nice depending on filter bandwidths in use. I tune out the beat
notes between voice harmonics.)

{^_^} Joanne, W6MKU

[Tsvetelin Velkov]

I like the idea. It could be a very good combination between the best
of both technologies ( it is important that front end has sharp input
BPF with low insertion loss and good LNA, for the mixer it is
important that your LO is low noise, mixer loss can be compensated,
mixer 3rd intercept point is maybe not so important because today you
don't expect to have strong signals in HF band, since most of HF
broadcast is gone, input BPF will filter out of band strong signals
like FM and TV broadcast ). I don't think that so exact tuning of the
freq is important, with the wide freq input + visualization of SDR you
will always see the signal and you can tune to it, you can also trim
the freq by tuning it to known freq. Fine adjustment you can do while
hearing at the signal.

As long as you don't transmit the exact freq is not so important. If
it is important you can replace the ref. osc in the dongle using +/-
25 ppm crystal osc, preferably ovenized or at least temp. compensated.
I think this is a kind of overkill, but everyone is free to choose. I
read somewhere about freq trimming using a known stable transmitter
like the GSM cell beacon. This is for me a good compromise.

I have a spectrum analyser up to 3 GHz. Can you guess what is the most
interfearing freq which I observe with it? I live in the city.

[Robert Nickels]

On 3/12/2013 6:53 PM, jdow wrote:
> It even has a frequency synthesizer, of sort,

A Wadley loop, or Wadley Drift Cancellation Loop to be specific, one of
the cleverest bits of radio engineering from the previous century.
Instead of trying to stabilize a drifting local oscillator, it simply
eliminates the effect of the drift. The basic principle of
operation is described here:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~radio/wadley.html

Plenty more on the web. Racal famously used the Wadley loop in many of
its high-end receivers, but the FRG-7 was the highest-selling commercial
receiver that employed this technique. Wadley receivers achieve
remarkably high stability without the phase noise associated with PLL
synthesizers, and like the dongle, stabilizing the

How stable? My RA-17L manual says it will remain tuned +/- 50 Hz after
a 1-2 hour warm up, without variation in ambient temperature or line
voltage. That's pretty remarkable for a receiver built in 1954 that
weighs 67 pounds and uses 24 vacuum tubes...oops I mean valves.

73, Bob W9RAN

[KD9GN]

Sorry .. I know this is a bit off topic .. I am an owner of a few cheap
dongles, the Ham it Up as well as some old Yaesu gear which I still use
daily and I am surprised that despite the age of a lot of this gear, I
see people on eBay willing to pay such high prices on some of this old
stuff. I am sure some of it is because it has some sentimental value to
them.

I am still surprised how well my cheap dongle / Ham It Up Up converter
with a random length long wire can hear relative to some of my HF
receivers using tuned dipoles.

Just an observation I found interesting.

73 - Dave
KD9GN

[jdow]

On 2013/03/13 02:11, Tsvetelin Velkov wrote:

> I have a spectrum analyser up to 3 GHz. Can you guess what is the most
> interfearing freq which I observe with it? I live in the city.

Er, that will depend on frequency and distance if it's not power line
harmonics.

I have a relatively nearby AM broadcast station that gets into everything.
It doesn't help that most of the wiring in the house was installed in the
first days of electricity in this area of Southern California. "Grounded
outlets say what? What's this three wire nonsense?" {^_-}

If you are rather close to an antenna tower for say cell phones they could
be your big one. In a building with LOTS of networking, that could be your
big one. With imbalanced telephone wires and ADSL that could be a really
big one. Ethernet over power lines, if legal, is almost always a killer
in the HF region.

So I couldn't begin to guess. You have some leaky power line insulators
nearby? You live next to a big highway? Ignition noise can be a killer.

{^_^} Joanne, W6MKU

[Arnie]

Probably in the 2.4ghz range from wifi routers. That's my guess.

73...Arnie W8DU

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[jdow]

If that's how it works the 2-3 MHz IF would have to be used. That's not in
the range of the dongles. Looked good at first. Alas, it's a bit of a cheat.
I was thinking it might have been more like the NRC HRO-500 which used a
synthesizer (PLL). (It did not use up conversion to a high IF except for
about 2.5 MHz and lower.) The NCR HRO-600, however, with the 602 front end
would make an excellent 55 MHz up converter for dongles. That was a REALLY
sweet and very rare receiver.

{^_^}

[Tsvetelin Velkov]

Hi Bob,

I read the example given here. The Wadley loop is interesting
implementation of heterodyne principle. There are plenty of such
clever inventions used during the years.

This is fun to read and understand, you can find some of those tricks
in mWave designs because of the limitations beyond X band.

However the practical usage today is somewhat limited or controversial.

Example : Upconverter principle ( 1 up, 1 down - 1st IF, 2 down - 2
IF mixer - 3 mixers at least, 1 front end BPF, 2 IF BPF, 1 LNA, 2 IF
amps, further processing like SSB ) was very popular in many ham and
commercial radios. Good results were achieved and many hams said this
is the best receiver ever. Those radios are usually big and heavy,
consuming a lot of power and generating heat. The solid look and feel
somehow justify the price ;) Today all design goals are concentrated
in wide bandwith SDRs where you have 1 convertion at all ( if any! ),
with 1 LNA - the rest is done in digital. Here I don't speak about ham
radios, but there are DSP enchaced radios for hams as well. Why such
dramatic turn in design concept?

Because every analog circuit, even the most linear one, has
nonliearities and add noise. Digital processing is completely linear
and add no noise at all.

Widebandwith radios immediately give full band or multi band coverage.
Diital processing and storage give immediate visualization, tracking,
usage of the information.

I think you already see the difference using those small dongles. But
as I said in my previous posts they are also limited. You know those
are used for digital TV broadcast and have no incoming BPF at all.

I hope even if the topic is a bit off to the main couse it will still
be interesting to someone.

73 and Best regards,
LZ1TVV

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[Tsvetelin Velkov]

As I said I am in the city. Surprisingly WIFI signals are not very
disturbing, also not the FM broadcast, digital TV broadcast is also
not a big issue ...

But the GSM cell signal is going through my cables, shielding ... it
is everywhere. Very annoying.

[Tsvetelin Velkov]

jdow,

this post I think has no practical usage for dongles. If you have such
radio you can use the front-end and 1st mixer - it has to be an
upconverting radio like shown in the article. You need to replace the
VFO with fixed freq. osc. like crystal osc. with temp stabilization.
No need to go to too expensive osc. because the dongle has a big drif
anyway. You have to either calibrate regularly or to replace also the
osc in the dongle. You can take the signal directly after 1st mixer
and feed it to dongle. The rest of this radio has no practical usage
if you are in SDR age :)