PCB Linear SIMO - help needed

[Frank]

A google search turned up the PCB Linear SIMO website
http://www.pbclinear.com/SIMO-Series-Linear-Motion-Platform
and also a .pdf 'catalog' of sorts.

Does anyone know which of the various variations of the product were used in the A1?
Does anyone have any assembly, disassembly, or maintenance information on the units used in the A1?

Here's the problem. My printer, #45, is a batch one unit. In a conversation I had with Ezra back on 6/3
he told me that one of the things contributing to the "moose in heat" noises my printer makes is that
the feed screw rubs on the underside of the carriage. PCB did not leave enough clearance.
For the Batch 2 (and beyond?) printers TL's machinist would mill out a track on the underside of
the carriage with a ball cutter. I was not confident enough with my own skills with a mill to do the
cutting myself and had set up to do a swap with TL for a set of machined slides in the August time
frame. [I needed my printer running between June and August when I'm giving a talk about 3D printed
parts!].  I was working with Rose to make that happen when things all fell apart.

I thought I'd ask for information here before I called PCB blindly since, unless I'm really lucky,
I doubt they are going to want to tell me what kinds of slides they sold to one of their customers.
I don't know if they have changed the product but nothing I can see on-line indicates that they have.

Frank Pirz
Media Conversions

[Glenn Beer]

This really is a trivial job for any local machine shop.

[Jesper Sand]

Frank,

I have printer #44 and I don't have Simo problems but I did have a moose in heat. I fixated the glass bed and the moose left the building

 

(at first I just clamped the bed down for testing but I have since printed new bed corners for 3 corners; new corners a similar to original, just higher and have 2 threaded holes for M5 nylon screws, that keep the bed fixed x,y and z)

 

Jesper

[Frank]

PCB SIMO SALES/ENGINEERING CONTACT INFO

I got the following from Dwayne Williams at PCB
Hello Frank I am an engineer at PBC and have seen your posts on the trinitylabs-talk group on Google groups.
I have been waiting for an approval to join the group but as current events unfold it does not look as though I will get one.
I do have a wealth information on the SIMO series and worked very closely on the PBC products supplied to Trinity Labs
for the Aluminatis line. I would be happy to share any information I can on the PBC products used.
I do however feel that this information would be helpful to the group but have no way of posting as I have not been
admitted to the group. Any suggestions you may have would be appreciated.
Feel free to post this email on the site if you wish.
Thanks,
Dwayne Williams
Ddu...@gmail.com

And - in direct response to my "moose in  heat" query

The clearance issue that you mentioned between the lead screw and carriage bottom is a relatively simple
fix that you may be able to remedy prior to resorting to machining the carriage.

It will involve removing your extruder head from the carriage. This should involve simply removing the
4 button head screws M6 from the four corners of the adapter plate.

This will expose 2 M4 fasteners which attach the lead screw nut to the underside of the carriage.
Loosen these two fasteners but do not fully remove them. Cut a piece of shim stock

10 to 12 mm square. .002" of an inch thick shim stock should do the trick. 

Gently push down on the lead screw by the lead screw nut and insert the shim between the
top surface of the nut and the mating surface of the carriage.

Tighten the 2 M4 screws (careful do not overtighten as the nut contains brass insert that
will deform the nut and bind the screw if over tightened.)

Just snug them down you'll get the feel for it.

reinstall the extruder head to the carriage & test. 

One thing in you photo does concern me. What is the item screwed into the side of the carriage?
[see my photo sent to Dwayne - it's the end stop flag]
This is normally used for a brake on the SIMO series as an option.

Be certain that your fastener is not too long.
Should the threaded portion contact the Hardcoat Surface on the rail it will certainly damage
 it and cause other issues.

If the aforementioned does not remedy your issues let me know and I will give you the step by step
to mill a pocket in the carriage. This by the way does not require a ball nose end mill a flat bottom
keyway slot .25 in. wide by .06 inch deep will more than suffice. I my self would not be afraid to do
 this with a dremel and carbine burr. Spot on accuracy is not required.

Dwayne Williams

 

[Dave]

On Monday, July 22, 2013 2:34:22 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:

PCB SIMO SALES/ENGINEERING CONTACT INFO

I got the following from Dwayne Williams at PCB
Hello Frank I am an engineer at PBC and have seen your posts on the trinitylabs-talk group on Google groups.

Holy cow.  Someone get this man signed up.  His input could be very useful.

The shim fix appears to spring the leadscrew; that is, it moves the carriage up against the rails, which would force the nut down into the screw.  On the other hand, it may just lift the carriage enough to eliminate play, without introducing any significant side load to the screw.   Would be very interesting to try that out. 

Dave

[John D]

100% agree - I'll poke JF, but last I checked this was not a moderated group.  Frank - can you ask Dwyane to confirm that he is logged in to a Google+ account when he is trying to post?

[djam]

I expect he needs permission from his co, PCB.

It would be good to know why the shim is needed, as in, why the clearance is
not ok by design.

[John D]

Wifey confirms it's not open - time to get JF to help Regan or we migrate to an unrestricted forum.

[BusyBotz]

Many thanks to Dwayne, and to Frank. This is exactly the type of information we need.

Dave I had the same thought, but perhaps there is enough play in the system to allow this to work without introducing other problems. It sure beats disassembly and a machine shop (or Dremel).

-Mitch

[Jean-François Talbot]

Dave, at this time, no one is allowed in because it requires approval by Ezra.

I am working with Regan to get her to approve people via Ezra's account.

It will happen, just give it time.

It is not related at all to the fact TL don't want new posters in the forum, not at all. Just a matter of administration.

Jeff

[Dwayne Williams]

I'm in Yay. Got my approval today.

[Dwayne Williams]

7:47 AMSean Mitchell
In my aluminatus build, I mounted my SIMOs using the mount holes on the block ends of the SIMOs - I didn't trust myself to machine out the holes and not screw them up.

I created a five-holed piece of metal (and plastic prototype STL attached) - three M5 inner holes match the 2060 extrusion holes, and two tapped outer M6 holes match the ends of the SIMOs. When I did it, the plastic was 5mm thick and the Y motor just fits under the bed plate. I suspect I'm getting moose-heat problems as the motor rattles against the body's top plate. On X I have replaced the plastic prototype with 3mm aluminum which is working really well. I can take some pictures once I'm back at home in a few weeks, currently back in Canada for a funeral.

The center of the rail floats above the 2060 by the thickness of the adapter plate, and is not supported - which I haven't found to be a significant problem. This also helped with noise reduction on X, as I have a silicone sheet which "wraps around" the adapter plate - the sandwitch goes SIMO->Silicone->Plate->Silicone->2060 Extrusion, which made my X axis significantly quieter.
Attachments (1)

SIMO_Mount.stl
563 KB View Download

10:35 AMme
Sean is heading down the right Avenue with mounting the axis via the mounting blocks. Ezra actually contacted PBC about the moose in heat noise issue. He actually sent us videos and the noise was definitely annoying. Ezra actually later retracted his complaint as he discovered after some tuning efforts he was able to all but eliminate the noise. I believe I still have the video at work somewhere I will look on Monday. In digging through the threads here in this group many have nailed down much of the noise is attributed to the heat transfer plate in the bed. Since the bed heater stopped working on our unit at PBC I removed the heater and transfer plate as a test the steppers actually produced quite a melodic tune slown down to about 75%
A lot of what we are all experiencing are symptoms of a start up production line product. I have personally sat back while I couldn't post and witnessed tons of great people coach others through their issues via this group or an IRC channel. I have actually seen and heard Ezra's personal printer and we can all aspire to have a printer that runs equally well but we certainly have to keep in mind the years of experience and knowledge that went into his printer. From what I have read and witnessed in this group there are more than a few people subscribed that have their own printers at this level and are more than willing to share their own lessons with others. In my own personal printer build I am weak in the software and electronics arena. I am however blessed with an extremely versatile engineering background. I am more than willing to help if I can and as I have found thus far others are more than happy to share and help strengthen my weaknesses.
I personally look forward to the time I will spend in these groups as knowledge is priceless and once gained can never be taken away.
That's my rant and I'm sticking to it.
Dwayne

ddu...@gmail.com - Sign out - Desktop
©2013 Google

[Frank]

Dwayne
Do you recall when it was that Ezra changed his mind about the Moose In Heat issues being related to SIMO
feedscrew to carriage clearance?
When I spoke to him on 6/3 he said to mill a slot in the underside of the carriage to improve the clearance.
Your email to me on 7/11 suggested that a shim might be all that was needed to improve the clearance.
I've been unable to force a shim into the slot.
I've got a batch 1 printer, did the geometry of the carriage change between batch 1 and later batches?
I'm confused, do I still need to mill that slot, or are there other, more effective, methods of curing the
Moose in Heat problem?

Frank Pirz
ps: If I need to mill a slot I'm going to need assembly/disassembly instructions for the SIMO.
thanks

[ChrisHS]

The leadscrew nut might be stuck to the carriage & need a little gentle persuasion to let go.

Push the nut AND pull the carriage at the same time if not tried already.

2nd with the leadscrew nut loose tap the carriage sideways to break the stiction.

Slowly increase force to the minimum that feels safe from harm to you or it.

[Frank]

Chris
If I press on the feedscrew I can see the nut separate from the carriage.
That said, when I try to put a shim into the gap it doesn't want to slide in.
Closer examination of the slide, under better than normal lighting just
revealed what's happening...
The feedscrew nut is almost the height of the gap between the bottom
of the carriage and the inside bottom of the rails. When I push down on
the feedscrew the nut rubs on the low flat space in between the rails.
Shimming the Nut will only cause the nut to rub on the rail...

Frank Pirz

[Ezra Zygmuntowicz]

Sorry but I have to refute this as the SIMO noise issue has always been a concern of mine and has never yet been fully resolved. There are plenty of hacks to damped and remove a lot of the noise but still not to a fully satisfactory level.

I will be working with you folks at PBC now that I am back in the world to hopefully find the "ONE" true fix but even my own printer has not eliminated all noise that should not exist in a linear actuator IMHO.

PBC is great to work with though and I am certain we will solve this. The Aluminatus is a new product and wasn't birthed without issues just like any new product. As far as I know we are the first production users of the new SIMO platform as well so there is some beta breakin issues on both PBC and TrinityLabs side.

Luckily Tlabs and PBC like eachother and will certainly get this issue worked out. Just had to be perfectly clear that there is still some work to be done to feel that the SIMO's are 100% living up to their potential. We will definitely get there soon.

Cheers-

Ezra

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[Jean-François Talbot]

Woot!

Welcome back Ezra, its nice to see you are coming back, well, will be coming back :)

Get well my freind but remember, don't rush your comeback, your health comes first!

Jeff

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