Font size changes

[frank....@gmail.com]

Hello,
does anyone know what the deal with the recent dialog font size changes is?

The font is slightly too large, now it looks out-of-place compared to, well, every other application.

-f.r.

[Stefan]

We adjusted the font size to the default that's recommended since Win7.

Most apps didn't follow those recommendations, but we now did.

[ryan.b...@gmail.com]

> The font is slightly too large, now it looks out-of-place compared to, well, every other application.

I agree. I prefer the font size that TortiseSVN has always used for the past many years. I'm particularly running into it in the commit window - since the font is larger, there are fewer files shown before I need to scroll. Is there a setting to restore the old font size? Thanks.

[Stefan]

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 7:37:05 PM UTC+1, Ryan Brothers wrote:

> The font is slightly too large, now it looks out-of-place compared to, well, every other application.

I agree.  I prefer the font size that TortiseSVN has always used for the past many years.  I'm particularly running into it in the commit window - since the font is larger, there are fewer files shown before I need to scroll.  Is there a setting to restore the old font size?  Thanks.

Sorry, no. There's no option to change this.

[Frank Richter]

Hello,

AFAIK the recommended is not just a font size, but a font size for the Segoe UI font.

That's relevant because Segoe UI has a somewhat shorter letter height than Tahoma (I think that's what MS Shell Dlg 2 maps to),

so 9pt Segoe UI looks right and not too large compared to 8pt Tahoma.

However, 9pt Tahoma (as it is now) looks out of place and isn't typically used.

For a practical example check the TortoiseSVN settings dialog: the tree view on the left actually uses Segoe UI 9pt;

previously, the settings on the right were 8pt Tahoma - and the fonts matched quite well together.

Now, the right side is in 9pt Tahoma and text appears larger compared to the tree view.

Source for font: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/uxguide/text-ui - Search for "BodyText".

-f.r.

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[evgeni...@gmail.com]

вторник, 6 ноября 2018 г., 21:29:20 UTC+3 пользователь Stefan написал:

> We adjusted the font size to the default that's recommended since Win7.
> Most apps didn't follow those recommendations, but we now did.

According to the https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/uxguide/vis-fonts#fonts-and-colors the default font for Windows Vista and Windows 7 is "9 pt. black (#000000) Segoe UI".
Also there is another note:
> To target Windows XP and Windows 2000, use the 8 point MS Shell Dlg 2 pseudo font, which maps to Tahoma.
9pt Tahoma indeed looks out of place.

[Ant Goffart]

> Sorry, no. There's no option to change this.

I agree with Frank (the OP) and Evgeni.
Tahoma 9pt looks wrong (too big) compared with every other dialogue in Windows.

[efilgni...@gmail.com]

I actually would like it to revert back to the monospaced font that it used before. I space and move text to align my text and now when i look at older commits .. they are all out of wack.

I tried changing the settings but that does nothing.

The SVN Project Manager *actually* has the font i am looking for to be in the Commit dialog.

My $0.02

[kern...@gmail.com]

I would like to bring this up again to clear something up.

I believe the misconception stems from the meaning of the "MS Shell Dlg 2" pseudo font. You will easily see that *no* Windows dialog uses this font at 9pt, neither does 99 % of Windows software made in the last 15 years.

The de-facto standards that are used in Windows are:
(1) 9pt Segoe UI - for Menus, Title bars and list-like items (including the Windows Explorer file and folder names), and sometimes combo boxes and explanatory text; and
(2) 8pt (more precisely: 8.25pt) Microsoft Sans Serif (not to be confused with MS Sans Serif) - for text boxes, buttons, tab controls, explanatory text (most of the time), and pretty much everything else.

(1) comes from the current users' appearance preferences. I am referring to this dialog: https://media.askvg.com/articles/images6/Advanced_Appearance_Settings_Windows.png

One way to retrieve these settings is:

NONCLIENTMETRICSW metrics = { 0 };
metrics.cbSize = sizeof(metrics);
SystemParametersInfoW(SPI_GETNONCLIENTMETRICS, 0, &metrics, 0);

Note that 8pt Microsoft Sans Serif appears nowhere in NONCLIENTMETRICS. The widespread usage of 8pt Microsoft Sans Serif stems from it being the default setting .NET Windows Forms as well as Win32 and MFC applications (i.e. if you do not specifcy any other font). It comes from the mapping of "MS Shell Dlg" (without "2").

This font is retrieved using:

HGDIOBJ default_gui_font = GetStockObject(DEFAULT_GUI_FONT);

and optionally:

LOGFONTW default_gui_font_info = { 0 };
GetObjectW(default_gui_font, sizeof(default_gui_font_info), &default_gui_font_info);

This is also what SystemFonts.DefaultFont does in .NET. Microsoft Sans Serif 8pt is a bit weird, admittedly, because neither does not appear as a configurable preference in the "appearance" dialog, nor is it listed in any design guidelines. That doesn't change the fact that it is used in most .NET programs, as well as many Windows dialogs (alongside Segoe UI 9pt).

Note that the MSDN pages for these (and many related) functions list "Tahoma" as the default font. *This information is completely outdated since at least Windows Vista*, but these functions are old, and so is their documentation.

At any rate, whether you choose the "MessageFont" from NONCLIENTMETRICS, or the DEFAULT_GUI_FONT, or "MS Shell Dlg", or "MS Shell Dlg 2": Use the *entire* font. Do *not* just use the font family and slap a different font size on it from a misinterpreted guideline.