Group Managers' note for new member requests.

[Geo Rider]

All new member requests MUST have a description of why you want to join the group. It can be as brief or as long as you feel necessary. We primarily use it to filter out non-santient beings.

Thanks to everyone for keeping this group great,

Joe

[SAR]

Greetings,

I have an M750X with an original battery pack and would like to explore my options with new battery technology.

Thanks,

Stuart

[Fluxface]

The quick or easy way is adding 37V Lithium pack(s) in parallel to your existing front hub battery. Turn the bike on normally after a proper charge, then plug in charged Lithium pack(s) to the aux battery connect already installed on your bike. Done!

Kinda, it's when you get home that a little more work needs to done. Step 1, Disconnect the aux battery. Step 2, Put the bike back on its' regular charger (without the new battery connected). Step 3 Charge your new Lithium battery(s).

It's step 3 that confuses most and discourage this upgrade. Don't think to hard about it, it's simple, buy and learn to use a RC (Radio Control) Lithium charger. Not hard at all and quite affordable.

Easy Lithium 37V packs, http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20679__Turnigy_nano_tech_5000mah_10S_25_50C_Lipo_Pack_USA_Warehouse_.html

Easy affordable Lithium charger http://www.hobbypartz.com/73p-ac680-accharger.html?gclid=CITshuaOsrcCFWNxQgodrl4AWg (you need two because the 37V is a very high voltage in the RC industry, having two will allow you to charge the 37V pack as if it was two 18.5V packs).

Brian

On Thursday, April 12, 2012 4:40:47 AM UTC-7, Geo Rider wrote:

[big thumb]

Do the connectors match up to the motor?
Is there a way to measure the battery level?
al

[Stuart Rosenthal]

I assume I'll need a special connector wired up to the 2 new Lithium packs to connect to the B (aux) battery connector.

As my original front hub batteries are nearly dead, I would love to remove them and thus lessen the weight of the bike from the front wheel while utilizing the 2 new 37v Lithium batteries as the primary power source. Any suggestions?

Stuart R.
sent from my mobile

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[Ambrose Liao]

Yes, you'll need to match your new pack's connectors to your bike's battery connector. They are either the Anderson Powerpoles or the Delphi Metripack 480 connectors. You will of course need the B battery jumper installed in your TF console.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you add the batteries to the back of your bike, it will feel very different than having the front hub battery. I don't like having the extra weight of the battery over the back motor wheel. It makes it very top heavy and unbalanced feeling.

Ambrose

P.S., here's my blog page on how to use an external pack on a TF bike.

http://ebikerider.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-to-use-external-battery-pack-with.html

On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Stuart Rosenthal <stuar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I assume I'll need a special connector wired up to the 2 new Lithium packs to connect to the B (aux) battery connector.

As my original front hub batteries are nearly dead, I would love to remove them and thus lessen the weight of the bike from the front wheel while utilizing the 2 new 37v Lithium batteries as the primary power source. Any suggestions?

Stuart R.
sent from my mobile

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[Stuart Rosenthal]

Hello and thank you for the very helpful information.

Here is another question on the same subject:
I would like to install my new lithium packs over the front wheel to avoid the additional weight on the read wheel.
Can I remove the front battery pack altogether and run the new Lithiums on the A battery terminal? I understand the front hub provides BMS to the console. What do I need to do with the new Lithiums in order to provide BMS to the console? Or do I mount the Lithiums over the front wheel and still connect them to the B battery  in the console and remove the A battery altogether?

Thank you,
Stuart

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Stuart Rosenthal

[Ambrose Liao]

I believe you can connect the battery to the front battery terminal. It is (as far as I can tell) in parallel with the rear B battery connectors.

If you have the jumper installed, you don't need to have the BMS installed. Just disconnect the data cable to the front hub battery and forget about it. You won't have a console SOC display and the key won't work. 

You don't need the BMS if you've disconnected the front hub battery. The BMS does provide the LED signal to the console which is why that will no longer function. The easiest thing to do is to add a Cycle Analyst stand-alone model between the battery and the motor. As I've done here:

http://ebikerider.blogspot.com/2011/08/connecting-cycle-analyst-sa-to.html

The Cycle Analyst stand-alone (CA-SA) will be a great addition to your bike since it will give you tons of information on how your battery is doing and how much power you've used out of your pack.

http://ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml

Ambrose

[Stuart Rosenthal]

Thanks, that is very valuable additional information.

If I forgo the front battery and it's BMS communication to the console you state the key will not work. Does this mean the battery will always consume voltage unless I unplug it from the cable connector?

Another question: I would like to use a half-twist throttle in place of the thumb throttle. Can you recommend an appropriate replacement part?

Thank you again,
You are a valued and appreciated resource!

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Stuart Rosenthal

[Ambrose Liao]

I would say that the rear motor and console would indeed drain the battery if it's not disconnected. However, you'll probably be charging the bike after a ride so it's not a big deal.

I love thumb throttles so haven't looked into a twist throttle. The Tidalforce thumb throttle is a very high quality one. Looking up the posts in this group I found a very relevant one started by Deerfencer (Larry).

https://groups.google.com/group/tidalforce/tree/browse_frm/month/2007-05/095e44b6a71c17f7

Here's a very well known source for the Magura twist throttle which is a virtual wire for wire swap for the Tidalforce thumb throttle. I would think that the throttle modification would be one of the easiest ones to do for the tf bike!

http://www.amazon.com/Magura-Twist-Grip-Throttle-0-5K/dp/B00BNUYP1G/

They're not cheap though at around $60!

Ambrose

Sent from my iPad

[Allan@Boston]

Hi Joe,

Do you know anyone in the Boston area that could help me breath new life into my pristine (but dead front hub) S750X? LEVT has been less than supportive and after a very nice conversation with Rakesh Dhawan it seems like it might be best to go with a new rack mounted battery.

Thank You,

Allan

617 216 7300

[Ambrose Liao]

You can certainly replace the front hub battery with a third party battery. However, be aware that mounting the new battery on the rear rack will change the balance of the bike greatly and make it quite top heavy. The kick stand becomes unreliable and the feel of the bike is dramatically different. You will need to install the "B" battery jumper in the console as well in order to override the BMS in the front hub and use a third party battery. Whatever battery you choose, be sure that it can put out about 30A continuous so that it can deliver the power the X motor needs. There are lots of batteries that can't deliver that power continuously. Shop carefully.

36V x 30A = 1080W

Ambrose

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[OptOut]

What Ambrose said :-)

LEVT are good people and have a flawless track record for repairing and maintaining out TF bikes. But you do have to go through their RMA process before sending your bike. They've been doing this a very long time and they know what they're doing and it can put some people off who don't understand all that's involved and just want their bikes back on the road ASAP.

From all accounts Rakesh is a great guy and true e-enthusiast. I feel bad for the e+ folks who were left with no support when that company closed (unlike TidalForce who have both LEVT and other 3rd party battery options).

Good luck with your bike and let us know how you do!

There's no one other than LEVT that I know of who can help you. 

Best,

Joe (mobile)

[Allan@Boston]

Thanks for the advice guys. It's a little overwhelming. I guess I'll try LEVT one more time.