RE: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

[J B]

Hi, we are going to be trying http://www.airserver.com/ on some of the new little Intel PC on a stick units, cost is comparable to a decent Miracast dongle but you get a whole PC to boot along with way more options like multiple devices connected and sharing at the same time. 

Haven't got the devices yet but looks really promising.

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Matthew Strickland
Sent: ‎5/‎7/‎2015 8:02 PM
To: techies-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

Hi all,

Do any of you project wirelessly in the classroom? We find Apple TV works great for the Mac's, and Miracast works well for Android/Windows devices, but getting a happy mix isn't as straightforward.

AirParrot makes the Windows device work on Apple TV (outside iTunes), there are apps for Android, or you can install an application for Windows 8.1 that uses your own PC to display from Apple/Android/Windows devices. I haven't tried with chrome-cast because I was more interest in mirroring; projecting everything on the screen, regardless of application.

Students like sharing what they are doing on the big screen, so would like to hear if anyone is using this well across a range of devices.

Matthew Strickland

Karamu High School

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[Alistair Baird]

I have used a chromecast to project my android phone onto a TV with mixed success. I have used the chromecast to project my screen ffrom a couple of PC's onto the TV. The chromecast gets very hot though. I have had it project the whole of PC screen.

FYI, Chromecast is a straight mirror, the device itself needs USB power - if your projector/TV doesn't have a USB port, you can use an adaptor. It also needs a working wireless network - I found trying it configure it up then use it standalone wasn't really successful.

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IT Manager

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[Richard Symon]

We use Epson-EB955W data projectors which have an easy MP tool that installs on mac and windows laptops and it works well if you are using wireless on the laptop (as the data projector is hard cabled to the network). but we find youtube and movies are laggy/drop frames in the video, but the sound is still great, I am just getting a device now to trial which is http://www.actiontec.com/332.html - screenbeam pro education edition 2 which has wireless on it and plugs into a tv or data projectors hdmi port but also comes with wireless built in for wifi and comes with a usb dongle as well to keep traffic seperated from the network, but says it streams videos really well.. but alas it doesnt work on apple devices... but is cheap, the device i was looking at originally was an iogear device wireless hdmi tx and rx.... if the epson easy mp app worked fine by itself for youtube and dvds/movies that would be perfect for both platforms ..

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[kahuk...@gmail.com]

Airserver is a bit flaky, some of our Ipad users have switched to Apple TVs.

Think you will find they have reverse engineered Apple’s Airplay protocols.

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[Robert Baird]

We're getting in one of these units to see how it goes: https://airtame.com/  Pretty pricey but cross platform is a good feature and if they work reliably then fantastic. 

[Richard Symon]

be interesting to see how fast this displays youtube/dvds/movies with as well! 

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Robert Baird <bair...@gmail.com> wrote:

We're getting in one of these units to see how it goes: https://airtame.com/  Pretty pricey but cross platform is a good feature and if they work reliably then fantastic. 

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[Robert Baird]

Their demo video was promising but yes, will be interesting to see how it does in real life! For a small device tucked behind a TV I can't imagine it getting amazing wi-fi signal strength. Big selling point for us is that you can set a webpage as a screensaver, so they work as digital signage as well. 

[J B]

We have lots of the easy mp projectors, video is laggy but they work really well till you get lots of them at which point they drop out all the time even if you have the projector end cabled.

Saw screen beam in action and watched it drop out five times in two hours.  The little hp widi Miracast stuff it's good but you need to keep restarting them if you use multiple devices because they stop pairing.

We use mostly widi/miracast so have high hopes for airserver, does not surprise me that they would have had to reverse engineer airplay as apple are not good about interoperability or standards that work with anything not embossed with a little apple on it.

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Richard Symon
Sent: ‎5/‎8/‎2015 9:45 AM
To: techies-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

We use Epson-EB955W data projectors which have an easy MP tool that installs on mac and windows laptops and it works well if you are using wireless on the laptop (as the data projector is hard cabled to the network). but we find youtube and movies are laggy/drop frames in the video, but the sound is still great, I am just getting a device now to trial which is http://www.actiontec.com/332.html - screenbeam pro education edition 2 which has wireless on it and plugs into a tv or data projectors hdmi port but also comes with wireless built in for wifi and comes with a usb dongle as well to keep traffic seperated from the network, but says it streams videos really well.. but alas it doesnt work on apple devices... but is cheap, the device i was looking at originally was an iogear device wireless hdmi tx and rx.... if the epson easy mp app worked fine by itself for youtube and dvds/movies that would be perfect for both platforms ..

On Thursday, May 7, 2015 at 11:46:42 PM UTC+12, synack wrote:

Hi, we are going to be trying http://www.airserver.com/ on some of the new little Intel PC on a stick units, cost is comparable to a decent Miracast dongle but you get a whole PC to boot along with way more options like multiple devices connected and sharing at the same time. 

Haven't got the devices yet but looks really promising.

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Matthew Strickland
Sent: ‎5/‎7/‎2015 8:02 PM
To: techies-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

Hi all,

Do any of you project wirelessly in the classroom? We find Apple TV works great for the Mac's, and Miracast works well for Android/Windows devices, but getting a happy mix isn't as straightforward.

AirParrot makes the Windows device work on Apple TV (outside iTunes), there are apps for Android, or you can install an application for Windows 8.1 that uses your own PC to display from Apple/Android/Windows devices. I haven't tried with chrome-cast because I was more interest in mirroring; projecting everything on the screen, regardless of application.

Students like sharing what they are doing on the big screen, so would like to hear if anyone is using this well across a range of devices.

Matthew Strickland

Karamu High School

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[Craig Knights]

Our AppleTVs seem to be unreliable.  Like you said about the Epsons. If there are too many they seem to fight.  Putting in more and more Hdmi cables as backup. Don't want to vlan or anything just for their sake.. 

Craig.

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[Julian Davison]

Do you think VLANs would help the AppleTV issues?

If it would it suggests that there might be advantages for other devices to split things up (as presumably there’s too much noise on the network, which is cluttering things up)

 

Cheers, Julian

Julian Davison
Technical Consultant
Decision1 IT Solutions Ltd
PO Box 368
Dunedin
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[Craig Knights]

Yeah we have a flat network.  About 20 apple tvs. 600 odd users.  All students byod.  I'd be interested to see if others have chopped things up to reduce the broadcast domain.

[Julian Davison]

Most of the VLANning/subnetting I’ve seen in schools seems more focussed on a separation between staff and student and wireless (staff wired, student wired and wireless is common) rather than ‘performance’. Though looking in after the fact it’s hard to tell what the ultimate design goals were.

[Richard Symon]

we have a flat network as well, interesting that further up it said "Saw screen beam in action and watched it drop out five times in two hours.".. which doesn't sound good... but the usb dongle that comes with it connected to the laptop then that connected to the screen beam unit will help with that traffic off the network..

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[Peter Eaton]

Unfortunately, VLANs interfere with the Bonjour discovery process: devices on different VLANs can't see AppleTVs (unless you do some trickery).  Apple added Bluetooth discovery to fix this: when an iOS device and the AppleTV are on new iOS versions and both have Bluetooth on, they discover using this instead of the network.

Unfortunately AirPlay had been unreliable in the previous few AppleTV and iOS versions, but appears to have returned to being pretty good with the latest AppleTV and iOS update so.

Pete

[J B]

Wireless is a shared medium so removing any broadcasts you can to eek out a little more performance is a good thing. You can also use it to give different rights to different devices at the network level which is the only sane choice if byod.

You can happily run a network flat with 600 devices but a lot depends on the devices, copiers, atvs, projectors and even client systems all show out broadcasts all the time and all of these are broadcast over wireless (even if it originates on wire) leaving less time to transmit actual user data other than "I'm a copier, I support airplay, I have a media library" being yelled out all the time by the other devices. Even if you still have enough raw bandwidth on wireless time sensitive stuff may be dropped in favor of "I'm a pretty copier" packets which is not ideal.

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Julian Davison
Sent: ‎5/‎8/‎2015 12:38 PM

To: 'techies-f...@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

Most of the VLANning/subnetting I’ve seen in schools seems more focussed on a separation between staff and student and wireless (staff wired, student wired and wireless is common) rather than ‘performance’. Though looking in after the fact it’s hard to tell what the ultimate design goals were.

 

Cheers, Julian

Julian Davison
Technical Consultant
Decision1 IT Solutions Ltd
PO Box 368
Dunedin
P 03 471 8232
F 03 471 8234
W www.decision1.co.nz
E jul...@decision1.co.nz

 

From: techies-f...@googlegroups.com [mailto:techies-f...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Knights
Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015 12:25 p.m.
To: techies-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

 

Yeah we have a flat network.  About 20 apple tvs. 600 odd users.  All students byod.  I'd be interested to see if others have chopped things up to reduce the broadcast domain.

[Julian Davison]

That’s interesting. Is it VLANs that confuse them, different subnets, or both?
If the Bluetooth discovery uses the network for actual communication I presume it’s the lack of L2 connectivity that’s getting in the way, is that right?

 

Cheers, Julian

Julian Davison
Technical Consultant
Decision1 IT Solutions Ltd
PO Box 368
Dunedin
P 03 471 8232
F 03 471 8234
W www.decision1.co.nz
E jul...@decision1.co.nz

 

[J B]

Depends on what radio band it runs on and how many you have I guess.  

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Richard Symon
Sent: ‎5/‎8/‎2015 12:43 PM

To: techies-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

we have a flat network as well, interesting that further up it said "Saw screen beam in action and watched it drop out five times in two hours.".. which doesn't sound good... but the usb dongle that comes with it connected to the laptop then that connected to the screen beam unit will help with that traffic off the network..

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Julian Davison <Jul...@decision1.co.nz> wrote:

Most of the VLANning/subnetting I’ve seen in schools seems more focussed on a separation between staff and student and wireless (staff wired, student wired and wireless is common) rather than ‘performance’. Though looking in after the fact it’s hard to tell what the ultimate design goals were.

 

Cheers, Julian

Julian Davison
Technical Consultant
Decision1 IT Solutions Ltd
PO Box 368
Dunedin
P 03 471 8232
F 03 471 8234
W www.decision1.co.nz
E jul...@decision1.co.nz

 

From: techies-f...@googlegroups.com [mailto:techies-f...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Knights
Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015 12:25 p.m.

To: techies-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

 

Yeah we have a flat network.  About 20 apple tvs. 600 odd users.  All students byod.  I'd be interested to see if others have chopped things up to reduce the broadcast domain.

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[J B]

Yes its l2, ruckus gear which is part of snup has broadcast bridging to patch over apples terrible protocol though.

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Julian Davison
Sent: ‎5/‎8/‎2015 12:49 PM

To: 'techies-f...@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

That’s interesting. Is it VLANs that confuse them, different subnets, or both?
If the Bluetooth discovery uses the network for actual communication I presume it’s the lack of L2 connectivity that’s getting in the way, is that right?

 

Cheers, Julian

Julian Davison
Technical Consultant
Decision1 IT Solutions Ltd
PO Box 368
Dunedin
P 03 471 8232
F 03 471 8234
W www.decision1.co.nz
E jul...@decision1.co.nz

 

From: techies-f...@googlegroups.com [mailto:techies-f...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Eaton
Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015 12:46 p.m.
To: techies-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

 

Unfortunately, VLANs interfere with the Bonjour discovery process: devices on different VLANs can't see AppleTVs (unless you do some trickery).  Apple added Bluetooth discovery to fix this: when an iOS device and the AppleTV are on new iOS versions and both have Bluetooth on, they discover using this instead of the network.

 

Unfortunately AirPlay had been unreliable in the previous few AppleTV and iOS versions, but appears to have returned to being pretty good with the latest AppleTV and iOS update so.

 

Pete

[Keith Craig]

Apple TV use bonjour which does not work across subnets. We put our apple tv's on a wired line but same VLAN as wifi. 

Keith Craig

Systems Administrator

Dilworth School

Mob: +64 21 541549

Office: +64 9 5231060 x843

Sent from my iPhone

[Craig Knights]

I just don't want to make it more complicated. .. 

[Stephen Moran]

Bonjour is built on top of mDNS which is in theory a non-routable protocol which is why Aerohive, Ruckus and others have all created their Bonjour Gateway, Broadcast Bidges etc.  The likes of IPP based printing also doesn’t work across Subnet’s either. 

For Mac’s there is a great program called “Bonjour Browser” which allows you to see what is broadcasting. On the network I’m on currently (VLAN’d) there’s 38 different services being advertised, and most by multiple devices and thats just within one subnet. I’m sure there’s probably a windows equivalent or if you’ve got aerohive you can use their tool’s to see what’s being advertised.

[Peter Eaton]

I'm pretty sure either of seperate VLANs or seperate subnets can trip them up - it has to do with the routing of the mDNS packets that Bonjour uses for announcing services.  You can get L2/3 devices that will do this routing, notably Aerohive access points.

After discovery (I haven't thoroughly investigated this), the devices negotiate the best way - if there is a routable path over shared wifi it uses that, but it may also initiate a peer-peer connection over wifi (and perhaps even Bluetooth).

Anyway, that's how I understand it.

Pete

[Julian Davison]

The complexity added by things like VLANs depends heavily on the makeup of your network, and the existing traffic paths that exist. If everything talks to everything (user devices connect directly to printers, for example) then there’s a greater potential for headaches. If there’s already centralised paths (user devices connect to server, which talks to printer, for example) then there’s likely little difference visible in general operation.

The inherent and unavoidable consequence of VLANs tends to be a requirement to consider what switch ports are going to be used for such that they are configured correctly. Which is less complicated and more of a nuisance J

[Arnold Santos]

We enable the Bonjour Gateway features at ZD Site Level on our Ruckus ZD1125 controller wherein we make some rules for the services e.g. Airplay, Chromecast, etc from which VLAN to another VLAN enabled. See pic... Disable sleeping on AppleTV as well. Hopes this helps.

Arnold

Arnold B. Santos
ICT Systems Administrator
Queenstown Primary School
________________________

Apple Certified Technical Coordinator 10.8
Apple Certified Support Professional 10.8

This email may contain confidential information intended for the recipient. If you receive this email in error please contact me.

[J B]

Depends on the switches, you can use 802.11x which maps the vlan via the device mac address but this can be a security concern.

Sent from my Windows Phone

---

From: Julian Davison
Sent: ‎5/‎8/‎2015 1:49 PM

To: 'techies-f...@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

The complexity added by things like VLANs depends heavily on the makeup of your network, and the existing traffic paths that exist. If everything talks to everything (user devices connect directly to printers, for example) then there’s a greater potential for headaches. If there’s already centralised paths (user devices connect to server, which talks to printer, for example) then there’s likely little difference visible in general operation.

The inherent and unavoidable consequence of VLANs tends to be a requirement to consider what switch ports are going to be used for such that they are configured correctly. Which is less complicated and more of a nuisance J

 

 

Cheers, Julian

Julian Davison
Technical Consultant
Decision1 IT Solutions Ltd
PO Box 368
Dunedin
P 03 471 8232
F 03 471 8234
W www.decision1.co.nz
E jul...@decision1.co.nz

 

From: techies-f...@googlegroups.com [mailto:techies-f...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Knights
Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015 1:04 p.m.
To: techies-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

 

I just don't want to make it more complicated. .. 

On 8/05/2015 12:38 PM, "Julian Davison" <Jul...@decision1.co.nz> wrote:

Most of the VLANning/subnetting I’ve seen in schools seems more focussed on a separation between staff and student and wireless (staff wired, student wired and wireless is common) rather than ‘performance’. Though looking in after the fact it’s hard to tell what the ultimate design goals were.

 

Cheers, Julian

Julian Davison
Technical Consultant
Decision1 IT Solutions Ltd
PO Box 368
Dunedin
P 03 471 8232
F 03 471 8234
W www.decision1.co.nz
E jul...@decision1.co.nz

 

From: techies-f...@googlegroups.com [mailto:techies-f...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Knights
Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015 12:25 p.m.
To: techies-f...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [techies-for-schools] Wireless projecting, AirPlay and Miracast

 

Yeah we have a flat network.  About 20 apple tvs. 600 odd users.  All students byod.  I'd be interested to see if others have chopped things up to reduce the broadcast domain.

[Kevin Whelan]

Agreed airserver is tempermental, a lot of the software updates which are quite frequent are really buggy and it gets confused when you have too many devices on the same network. IOS8 broke it big time but seems to be ok again now. We've had people choosing their own laptop to project to and signal gets sent to another random laptop in another room which is rather embarassing. The complexity of vlans ,dhcp leases dns records and multiple bonjour signals just seems to get it confused. Some days its fine and some teachers seem to have more sucess than others. Swopping the teacher laptop between cable and wireless regularly confuses the system again.
Aerohive can take a while to find new connections and settle down with the vlan broadcasting.
We've been using airserver for a couple of years now but I think the saturation level has probably been reached here.Home enviroment it works perfectly.
I have had better results with airsquirrels/reflector lately