Short Fiction by P. G. Wodehouse

Red (aceredshirt13)

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Sep 25, 2023, 6:10:11 AM9/25/23

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The listing on the front page says that the stories here are all listed in order of magazine publication. However, in the table of contents, the Reggie Pepper stories seem to be out of order. For example, "Disentangling Old Duggie" appears before "Absent Treatment", even though the latter came out in 1911 and the former came out in 1912. While I don't know the publication date of all the other stories, I know that at the very least Absent Treatment is 1911, Disentangling Old Duggie is 1912, Concealed Art is February and July 1915, and The Test Case is December 1915. So those four stories should run in that order, interspersed by whatever else comes between them.

I also noticed that the short story collection is missing some of the Blandings Castle stories that are in public domain - namely, it's missing "The Custody of the Pumpkin" and "Pig hoo-o-o-o-ey", though it has "Lord Emsworth Acts for the Best", which came out between them.

But truly, thank you so much for these wonderful ebooks! I've been reading all my Wodehouse on this site, and I've been sourcing it for a Substack I'm working on where I send people Jeeves and other Wodehouse stories one email at a time. So I'm very grateful.

Red

B Keith

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Sep 25, 2023, 9:51:53 AM9/25/23

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I’ll look back at the Pepper stories and double check… Wodehouse is hard because he published so many of the stories in different forms. The missing stories are probably de to Standard ebooks policy of being able to check source material…There are quiet a few stories that aren included in the various collections because the only extant versions I could find were 20th century reprints.

B

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Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus

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Red (aceredshirt13)

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Oct 3, 2023, 10:13:47 PM10/3/23

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What do you mean by the ability to check source material? I know, for example, that Madame Eulalie documents all the public domain Wodehouse stuff as-published in the magazines it ran in (like this page for the 1911 Strand version of Absent Treatment here). It's probably the most useful place for the sourcing of Wodehouse out there, and it's got the missing Blandings stories, too. But if you only mean being able to check physical first editions of the magazine publications, or things like that, that's gonna be a much harder, if not impossible, task in general.

Red

B Keith

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Oct 4, 2023, 9:37:20 AM10/4/23

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Yes exactly that. Eulalia is a useful place to get transcripts but without a primary resource to check against its not been deemed a “reliable” resource. I did talk with them about getting scans of some of the more difficult stories (especially from the School Stories collection) but they were very reluctant and ultimately nothing came of it.

So we’ve collected what we can and you never know, more becomes available every year.

B

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Alex Cabal

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Oct 4, 2023, 1:35:53 PM10/4/23

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Wodehouse is unique in that he published a huge number of stories in
various different forms and versions. A story with the same title but
published once in 1923 and again 1935 might be totally different
stories, with different chapters and sometimes even different characters
- and only one of them would be PD. Therefore just because Eulalie says
a particular version of a story is PD doesn't make it true, if we can't
see the actual page scans they transcribed from.

On 10/3/23 9:13 PM, Red (aceredshirt13) wrote:
> What do you mean by the ability to check source material? I know, for
> example, that Madame Eulalie documents all the public domain Wodehouse
> stuff as-published in the magazines it ran in (like this page for the
> 1911 Strand version of Absent Treatment here

> <https://www.madameulalie.org/strand/Absent_Treatment.html>). It's

> probably the most useful place for the sourcing of Wodehouse out there,
> and it's got the missing Blandings stories, too. But if you only mean
> being able to check physical first editions of the magazine
> publications, or things like that, that's gonna be a much harder, if not
> impossible, task in general.
>
> Red
> On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 10:51:53 PM UTC+9 B Keith wrote:
>
> I’ll look back at the Pepper stories and double check… Wodehouse is
> hard because he published so many of the stories in different
> forms. The missing stories are probably de to Standard ebooks policy
> of being able to check source material…There are quiet a few stories
> that aren included in the various collections because the only
> extant versions I could find were 20th century reprints.
>
> B
> _________
>
> Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus
>
>> On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:10 AM, Red (aceredshirt13)
>> <theamazi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The listing on the front page says that the stories here are all
>> listed in order of magazine publication. However, in the table of
>> contents

>> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text>, the Reggie Pepper stories seem to be out of order. For example, "Disentangling Old Duggie" appears before "Absent Treatment", even though the latter came out in 1911 and the former came out in 1912. While I don't know the publication date of all the other stories, I know that at the very least Absent Treatment is 1911, Disentangling Old Duggie is 1912, Concealed Art is February and July 1915, and The Test Case is December 1915. So those four stories should run in that order, interspersed by whatever else comes between them.

>>
>> I also noticed that the short story collection is missing some of
>> the Blandings Castle stories that are in public domain - namely,
>> it's missing "The Custody of the Pumpkin" and "Pig hoo-o-o-o-ey",
>> though it has "Lord Emsworth Acts for the Best", which came out
>> between them.
>>
>> But truly, thank you so much for these wonderful ebooks! I've been
>> reading all my Wodehouse on this site, and I've been sourcing it
>> for a Substack I'm working on where I send people Jeeves and other
>> Wodehouse stories one email at a time. So I'm very grateful.
>>
>> Red
>>
>> --
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>> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/125fd5a8-631a-4a4d-a5c6-213fde95c390n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/125fd5a8-631a-4a4d-a5c6-213fde95c390n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>
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Red

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Oct 4, 2023, 8:07:13 PM10/4/23

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Has there been an attempt to contact them for sources of their scans in the past? I know B mentioned they’d tried to discuss getting original scans before, but there was reluctance, and I wasn’t sure if that reluctance was on the part of Standard eBooks or Eulalie or another party entirely. If there hasn’t been, then I can shoot Eulalie a message about it.

Also, even if we can’t get the original scans for, say, the Blandings stories I mentioned, I don’t think that would be an obstacle in putting the Reggie Pepper stories in what we currently know to be their publication order, right? If it is an obstacle, then at the very least, shouldn’t the note saying that all the Wodehouse stories in the Short Fiction collection are presented in publication order should be removed?

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B Keith

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Oct 5, 2023, 9:41:23 AM10/5/23

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Yes I did talk to them. They have large membership and the source magazines are part of a widely held collections, many of them rare and prized possessions. There didn’t seem much desire on their part to do the work necessary for what I assume they thought was a redundant or “small” project. Which I can respect. I didn’t push.

And I will get the stories sorted out when I have a moment.

B

_________

Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus

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B Keith

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Oct 7, 2023, 1:19:26 PM10/7/23

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Alex,

I fixed the stories that were out of order and created a pull request.

Bruce

_________

Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus

Red

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Oct 7, 2023, 1:20:24 PM10/7/23

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Thank you so much! And sorry to cause you trouble!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9DD0664D-7579-44B7-BD7A-C2B48062E1E0%40gmail.com.

Red (aceredshirt13)

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Nov 3, 2023, 2:25:02 PM11/3/23

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Hello, and I am so sorry to bother you again. But I'm curious about the source of "Concealed Art". I know we've said that since Madame Eulalie uses scans, it doesn't technically qualify for usage on the ebook website and all, but I still think it's worth noting that both the British Strand version and the American Pictorial version as presented on that website contain passages that are missing in the version on Standard eBooks. The version on Standard eBooks does match with the transcription linked on the page for the Project Gutenberg version of Death at the Excelsior and Other Stories, as well as the version found in an Internet Archive scan of Enter Jeeves. However, this confuses me a lot, as it seems to go against the aforementioned credo of Standard eBooks. You mentioned the reason that several stories haven't been added to this collection is because there is not a primary source to check them against, because the only extant versions you could find were 20th century reprints. I assumed this meant you needed originals - re: if you couldn't look at a physical copy of a magazine like the Strand, you couldn't include it. But Death at the Excelsior was published as a collection in 2003, and uploaded on Gutenberg in 2005. The earliest I could find the current Standard eBooks version of "Concealed Art" was that Internet Archive scan of Enter Jeeves, which only dates back to 1993. So what I'm wondering is, if you can include a public domain story from something as recent as a 2003 reprint, then how is that different from including the public domain Blandings stories from scans of "The Custody of the Pumpkin" and "Pig hoo-o-o-o-ey" from this 1935 Archive-scanned version of Blandings Castle and Elsewhere? Or do the pgdp links I can't access without a login have a scan of a magazine copy of "Concealed Art" I don't know about which legitimizes it more than that? I'm just a bit confused as to the nature of the rules in what is allowed to be used here.

(I've also noticed that some of the Pepper stories are the American versions, and some of the Pepper stories are the British versions, and since the continuity is different (American Peppers are all set in New York instead of London), and I wondered if that would be worth noting.)

Alex Cabal

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Nov 3, 2023, 2:27:11 PM11/3/23

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The rule is, if it's on PG then we accept it as public domain because
their research is thorough and can be trusted. If it's not on PG, then
we need scans of a pre-1928 publication to compare against to ensure
that the transcription we're using is actually public domain. Wodehouse
is very complicated because his stories were frequently republished,
remixed, and reedited, so that the same title can have 3+ versions
floating around, some of which may not be PD yet.

On 11/3/23 1:03 PM, Red (aceredshirt13) wrote:
> Hello, and I am so sorry to bother you again. But I'm curious about the
> source of "Concealed Art". I know we've said that since Madame Eulalie
> uses scans, it doesn't technically qualify for usage on the ebook
> website and all, but I still think it's worth noting that both the
> British Strand version and the American Pictorial version as presented
> on that website contain passages that are missing in the version on
> Standard eBooks. The version on Standard eBooks does match with the
> transcription linked on the page for the Project Gutenberg version of

> /Death at the Excelsior and Other Stories/, as well as the version found
> in an Internet Archive scan of /Enter Jeeves/. However, this confuses me

> a lot, as it seems to go against the aforementioned credo of Standard
> eBooks. You mentioned the reason that several stories haven't been added
> to this collection is because there is not a primary source to check
> them against, because the only extant versions you could find were 20th
> century reprints. I assumed this meant you needed originals - re: if you
> couldn't look at a physical copy of a magazine like the Strand, you

> couldn't include it. But /Death at the Excelsior/ was published as a

> collection in 2003, and uploaded on Gutenberg in 2005. The earliest I
> could find the current Standard eBooks version of "Concealed Art" was

> that Internet Archive scan of /Enter Jeeves/, which only dates back to

> 1993. So what I'm wondering is, if you can include a public domain story
> from something as recent as a 2003 reprint, then how is that different
> from including the public domain Blandings stories from scans of "The
> Custody of the Pumpkin" and "Pig hoo-o-o-o-ey" from this 1935
> Archive-scanned version of Blandings Castle and Elsewhere?

> <https://archive.org/details/dli.ministry.10360/page/11/mode/2up> Or do

> the pgdp links I can't access without a login have a scan of a magazine
> copy of "Concealed Art" I don't know about which legitimizes it more
> than that? I'm just a bit confused as to the nature of the rules in what
> is allowed to be used here.

> /
> /

>>> <https://www.madameulalie.org/strand/Absent_Treatment.html <https://www.madameulalie.org/strand/Absent_Treatment.html>>). It's

>>> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text>>, the Reggie Pepper stories seem to be out of order. For example, "Disentangling Old Duggie" appears before "Absent Treatment", even though the latter came out in 1911 and the former came out in 1912. While I don't know the publication date of all the other stories, I know that at the very least Absent Treatment is 1911, Disentangling Old Duggie is 1912, Concealed Art is February and July 1915, and The Test Case is December 1915. So those four stories should run in that order, interspersed by whatever else comes between them.

>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/125fd5a8-631a-4a4d-a5c6-213fde95c390n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/125fd5a8-631a-4a4d-a5c6-213fde95c390n%40googlegroups.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/125fd5a8-631a-4a4d-a5c6-213fde95c390n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/125fd5a8-631a-4a4d-a5c6-213fde95c390n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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Red (aceredshirt13)

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Nov 7, 2023, 8:55:58 AM11/7/23

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Ah, all right! After you said this, I contacted Project Gutenberg to see where they got their print editions of the Reggie Pepper stories, and apparently the records saying which print editions were used to make the Gutenberg version got wet and were discarded, so there is no longer any proof of what was used. My last attempt at finding whichever printed source was used will be contacting PGDP to see if they have any remaining records on which print versions of Reggie Pepper were used for the Gutenberg publication, and I will let you know what, if any, results I receive.

I will say, though, that the Internet Archive possesses a scan of the original 1915-published collection of all the issues of the Strand Magazine that came out that year. In this scan of January to June, "Concealed Art" can be read, and does match the transcription on Madame Eulalie - complete with all of the passages strangely omitted in the apparently now-unsourceable print edition. (I truly cannot find any record of an earlier print than Plum Stones and Enter Jeeves, though, and I cannot even find a scan of Plum Stones to know if "Concealed Art" was abridged for that publication.) So given the rather mysterious circumstances of the abridgement of "Concealed Art", and the fact that it was never printed in a book when Wodehouse was alive, I at the very least think it would be worth considering replacing the current shortened version with the lengthier original.

Red

Alex Cabal

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Nov 7, 2023, 4:32:45 PM11/7/23

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Is the 1915 edition of Concealed Art in the Strand the first edition? If
not then we can't know if it should be short or long. It's a valid
decision for an author to cut parts out of a story in subsequent
editions. Just because it's longer doesn't necessarily mean it's newer
or more accurate.

In all cases, order to be totally clear on the copyright issue we
require either a PG transcription or page scans.

On 11/7/23 7:55 AM, Red (aceredshirt13) wrote:
> Ah, all right! After you said this, I contacted Project Gutenberg to see
> where they got their print editions of the Reggie Pepper stories, and
> apparently the records saying which print editions were used to make the
> Gutenberg version got wet and were discarded, so there is no longer any
> proof of what was used. My last attempt at finding whichever printed
> source was used will be contacting PGDP to see if they have any
> remaining records on which print versions of Reggie Pepper were used for
> the Gutenberg publication, and I will let you know what, if any, results
> I receive.
>
> I will say, though, that the Internet Archive possesses a scan of the
> original 1915-published collection of all the issues of the Strand
> Magazine that came out that year. Inthis scan of January to June

> <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater>, "Concealed Art" can be read, and does match the transcription on Madame Eulalie - complete with all of the passages strangely omitted in the apparently now-unsourceable print edition. (I truly cannot find any record of an earlier print than /Plum Stones/ and /Enter Jeeves/, though, and I cannot even find a scan of /Plum Stones/ to know if "Concealed Art" was abridged for that publication.) So given the rather mysterious circumstances of the abridgement of "Concealed Art", and the fact that it was never printed in a book when Wodehouse was alive, I at the very least think it would be worth considering replacing the current shortened version with the lengthier original.

> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text>>>, the Reggie Pepper stories seem to be out of order. For example, "Disentangling Old Duggie" appears before "Absent Treatment", even though the latter came out in 1911 and the former came out in 1912. While I don't know the publication date of all the other stories, I know that at the very least Absent Treatment is 1911, Disentangling Old Duggie is 1912, Concealed Art is February and July 1915, and The Test Case is December 1915. So those four stories should run in that order, interspersed by whatever else comes between them.

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Red

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Nov 7, 2023, 5:36:48 PM11/7/23

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Yes, it appears to be the first edition/first time it was ever published. Even the slightly later American version contains slightly altered versions of those long parts cut from the version present on PG and this website. That’s why I was concerned about the cuts - since, unless PGDP is able to get back to me with the since-lost proof, I am not certain the cuts made to the story were done with Wodehouse’s personal oversight/consent while he was alive, unlike, say, the cuts made from the My Man Jeeves version of “Leave It to Jeeves” when it was made into Carry On, Jeeves’s “The Artistic Career of Corky”, since it does not otherwise seem to have been reprinted or collected in the author’s lifetime.

Red

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Alex Cabal

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Nov 7, 2023, 5:41:20 PM11/7/23

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This is why Wodehouse is complicated. We can't guess about things done
by the dead when the originals aren't accessible. Your right answer is
someone else's wrong answer. Absent page scans, let's just leave it as
it is. In any case Wodehouse was famously blase about reediting and
recutting his work - executing a perfect personal vision of his stories
was not at the top of his mind. (Nor did it matter very much to most
workaday authors before, say, the 1920s, with some notable exceptions
like Joyce.)

On 11/7/23 4:36 PM, Red wrote:
> Yes, it appears to be the first edition/first time it was ever
> published. Even the slightly later American version contains slightly
> altered versions of those long parts cut from the version present on PG
> and this website. That’s why I was concerned about the cuts - since,
> unless PGDP is able to get back to me with the since-lost proof, I am
> not certain the cuts made to the story were done with Wodehouse’s
> personal oversight/consent while he was alive, unlike, say, the cuts

> made from the /My Man Jeeves/ version of “Leave It to Jeeves” when it
> was made into /Carry On, Jeeves/’s “The Artistic Career of Corky”, since

> <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater>>, "Concealed Art" can be read, and does match the transcription on Madame Eulalie - complete with all of the passages strangely omitted in the apparently now-unsourceable print edition. (I truly cannot find any record of an earlier print than /Plum Stones/ and /Enter Jeeves/, though, and I cannot even find a scan of /Plum Stones/ to know if "Concealed Art" was abridged for that publication.) So given the rather mysterious circumstances of the abridgement of "Concealed Art", and the fact that it was never printed in a book when Wodehouse was alive, I at the very least think it would be worth considering replacing the current shortened version with the lengthier original.

> <mailto:bois...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Alex,
> > >
> > > I fixed the stories that were out of order and created a pull
> > > request.
> > >
> > > Bruce
> > > _________
> > >
> > > Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus
> > >
> > >> On Oct 5, 2023, at 7:41 AM, B Keith <bois...@gmail.com

> <mailto:bois...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Yes I did talk to them. They have large membership and the
> > >> source magazines are part of a widely held collections, many
> > >> of them rare and prized possessions. There didn’t seem much
> > >> desire on their part to do the work necessary for what I
> > >> assume they thought was a redundant or “small” project. Which
> > >> I can respect. I didn’t push.
> > >>
> > >> And I will get the stories sorted out when I have a moment.
> > >>
> > >> B
> > >> _________
> > >>
> > >> Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus
> > >>
> > >>> On Oct 4, 2023, at 6:06 PM, Red <theamazi...@gmail.com

> <mailto:theamazi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Has there been an attempt to contact them for sources of
> > >>> their scans in the past? I know B mentioned they’d tried to
> > >>> discuss getting original scans before, but there was
> > >>> reluctance, and I wasn’t sure if that reluctance was on the
> > >>> part of Standard eBooks or Eulalie or another party
> entirely.
> > >>> If there hasn’t been, then I can shoot Eulalie a message
> > >>> about it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Also, even if we can’t get the original scans for, say, the
> > >>> Blandings stories I mentioned, I don’t think that would
> be an
> > >>> obstacle in putting the Reggie Pepper stories in what we
> > >>> currently know to be their publication order, right? If
> it is
> > >>> an obstacle, then at the very least, shouldn’t the note
> > >>> saying that all the Wodehouse stories in the Short Fiction
> > >>> collection are presented in publication order should be
> removed?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 2:35 AM Alex Cabal
> > >>> <al...@standardebooks.org

> <mailto:theamazi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> The listing on the front page says that the
> > >>> stories here are all
> > >>> >> listed in order of magazine publication. However,
> > >>> in the table of
> > >>> >> contents
> > >>> >>
> > >>>
> >

> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text>> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text> <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text <https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse/short-fiction/text>>>>, the Reggie Pepper stories seem to be out of order. For example, "Disentangling Old Duggie" appears before "Absent Treatment", even though the latter came out in 1911 and the former came out in 1912. While I don't know the publication date of all the other stories, I know that at the very least Absent Treatment is 1911, Disentangling Old Duggie is 1912, Concealed Art is February and July 1915, and The Test Case is December 1915. So those four stories should run in that order, interspersed by whatever else comes between them.

> <mailto:tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com>.

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Red

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Nov 7, 2023, 5:43:14 PM11/7/23

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Wait, absent page scans? Did the page scans not send properly? I thought I linked the 1915 scans of “Concealed Art” in that last email.

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Alex Cabal

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Nov 7, 2023, 5:44:51 PM11/7/23

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Yes but isn't the whole problem that you can't find page scans for the
PG transcription, so you think a different version is the "right" version?

> > <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org

> <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater> <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater>>>, "Concealed Art" can be read, and does match the transcription on Madame Eulalie - complete with all of the passages strangely omitted in the apparently now-unsourceable print edition. (I truly cannot find any record of an earlier print than /Plum Stones/ and /Enter Jeeves/, though, and I cannot even find a scan of /Plum Stones/ to know if "Concealed Art" was abridged for that publication.) So given the rather mysterious circumstances of the abridgement of "Concealed Art", and the fact that it was never printed in a book when Wodehouse was alive, I at the very least think it would be worth considering replacing the current shortened version with the lengthier original.

> > <mailto:bois...@gmail.com <mailto:bois...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alex,
> > > >
> > > > I fixed the stories that were out of order and
> created a pull
> > > > request.
> > > >
> > > > Bruce
> > > > _________
> > > >
> > > > Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus
> > > >
> > > >> On Oct 5, 2023, at 7:41 AM, B Keith
> <bois...@gmail.com <mailto:bois...@gmail.com>

> > <mailto:bois...@gmail.com <mailto:bois...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Yes I did talk to them. They have large membership
> and the
> > > >> source magazines are part of a widely held
> collections, many
> > > >> of them rare and prized possessions. There didn’t
> seem much
> > > >> desire on their part to do the work necessary for
> what I
> > > >> assume they thought was a redundant or “small”
> project. Which
> > > >> I can respect. I didn’t push.
> > > >>
> > > >> And I will get the stories sorted out when I have
> a moment.
> > > >>
> > > >> B
> > > >> _________
> > > >>
> > > >> Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Oct 4, 2023, at 6:06 PM, Red
> <theamazi...@gmail.com <mailto:theamazi...@gmail.com>

> > <mailto:theamazi...@gmail.com

> > <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org

> > <mailto:theamazi...@gmail.com

> <mailto:theamazi...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> The listing on the front page says that the
> > > >>> stories here are all
> > > >>> >> listed in order of magazine publication.
> However,
> > > >>> in the table of
> > > >>> >> contents
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>>
> > >
> >

> > <mailto:tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com>>.
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Red

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Nov 7, 2023, 5:46:43 PM11/7/23

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Ah, okay, I see what you mean. I’ll wait for PGDP to get back to me, then, and I will keep you posted. Sorry if I’ve come off as antagonistic - I just want to get to the bottom of all this!

Red

Red (aceredshirt13)

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Nov 15, 2023, 2:56:32 AM11/15/23

to Standard Ebooks

Hello again! Long message ahead, so my apologies.

PGDP has not replied to my correspondence, so I asked the Wodehouse mailing list I'm on if they could shed some light on the abridgement of the Pepper stories, upon which is Neil Midkiff, a prominent Wodehouse archivist and scholar that edits the Madame Eulalie website. Neil gave me a very extensive, well-researched response that is beyond my own resources, and also gave me permission to cite it here, as he shared my concern that the versions of "Concealed Art" and "The Test Case" as present on Standard eBooks and Project Gutenberg were altered after Wodehouse's death without his consent.

(Context for the beginning of Neil's reply: Corky is my nickname on the mailing list, and David is another member of the mailing list who had suggested the abridgements I mentioned were the result of them perhaps being American versions rather than British versions. The Uncollected Wodehouse, Plum Stones, and Enter Jeeves are the three physically published editions that collect one or both of these two Reggie Pepper stories. If anything else about Neil's response is too esoteric without context, let me know and I will explain it.)

Although David's comments are true in many cases, in the case of these
Reggie Pepper stories the abridgements noted by Corky are not
attributable to differences in US vs UK source texts.

Both original magazine editions of "Concealed Art" are lengthier,
including the reference to Futurists, than the abridged version. The
American version, from Pictorial Review, 1915/07, is set in New York:
http://madameulalie.org/pictrev/Concealed_Art.html
It is very slightly longer than the British version from the Strand
magazine, 1915/02, which is set in London:
http://madameulalie.org/strand/Concealed_Art.html

Plum Stones, vol. 2, reprints the Strand version, as far as I can tell
in a quick scan. Tony Ring's introduction to the Plum Stones volume
doesn't comment on the differences between the two magazine versions.

On my web page about the Wodehouse short stories:
https://madameulalie.org/neil/story.html
my comment on the Strand version is:
Set in London; slight cuts and many changes of words and local
references compared to Pictorial Review text. EJ claims to reprint
Strand version but doesn’t match it; for instance, opening of EJ is
shortened to omit Futurists.

and on the US version:
Pict. Review version, slightly longer and thus presumed closer to PGW’s
original, is set in New York; Reggie is heir to safety-razor fortune.

In the third edition of 'Who's Who in Wodehouse', in the listing of
collections (p.370) we also mention that the 'Enter Jeeves' [EJ] text of
"Concealed Art" is edited down slightly from the Strand version.

----

Turning to "The Test Case":
The British version is from Pearson's, 1915/12:
https://madameulalie.org/pearsonsuk/The_Test_Case.html
My web page comment is:
Shorter version (5,740 words). Near beginning: “rolling up the aisle
with Ann Selby”

The American version is from the Illustrated Sunday Magazine (a
newspaper supplement) from December 12, 1915:
https://www.madameulalie.org/ism/ISM_The_Test_Case.html

My web page comment is:
ISM is longer version (6,179 words) with Americanisms such as “getting
over the home-plate with Ann Selby” as in collected versions, but Ananth
Kaitharam notes that the book versions (UW is 4,667 words, and PS2 and
EJ are apparently the same as UW) seem to have been edited (by David
Jasen?) rather than reproducing ISM version exactly.

In the third edition of 'Who's Who in Wodehouse', in the listing of
collections (p.370) we also mention that the 'Enter Jeeves' text of "The
Test Case" is edited down from the ISM version, losing 1/4 of the words.

----

It pains me somewhat to be critical of David Jasen, as we are indebted
to him for getting Wodehouse's personal recollections as a basis for his
biography 'P. G. Wodehouse: A Portrait of a Master'. But I can come to
no other conclusion than that Jasen was responsible for the abridged
versions which have been circulated on the Internet, derived from his
volumes 'The Uncollected Wodehouse' and 'Enter Jeeves'.

In fact, only one of the fifteen stories in 'Enter Jeeves' is accurately
cited from the correct source and fully included: "Disentangling Old
Duggie" (from Collier's, US).

Readers of my web page on the Wodehouse novels:
https://madameulalie.org/neil/novel.html
will have noted that I often criticize Jasen for mistaken claims in his
'A Bibliography and Reader's Guide to the First Editions of P. G.
Wodehouse' as well. He frequently claims that US and UK first editions
are identical when they are demonstrably different.

Now there is at least one case in which Jasen worked on the stories with
Wodehouse's approval. On my story page, under "Death at the Excelsior",
this comment:
Tony Ring, in Plum Lines, Autumn 2010, revealed that the Uncollected
Wodehouse (1976) and EQMM (1978) version was a hybrid of the Pearson’s
and Saint versions, edited together with a new title by David Jasen with
the approval of Wodehouse before his death. [Thanks to Gus Caywood for
bringing this to our attention.]

But I have no evidence regarding Wodehouse's opinions on other editorial
abridgements by Jasen.

–Neil Midkiff

This seems to be rather firm proof that the only versions of these stories that were collected as their abridged versions were done so by David Jasen, who, considering his other mistaken claims about Wodehouse's stories as mentioned by Neil above, is demonstrably not an entirely accurate source for the original versions of Wodehouse's work. These edits date back only to his own collections, which were published after Wodehouse's death - and, unlike the story "Death at the Excelsior," there is no evidence that Wodehouse consented to these edits before his passing. We cannot, unfortunately, ask David Jasen himself the reasoning for this, as he passed away last year; however, Neil, who has far more resources and experience in this department than my dedicated layman's eye, agrees with me that the origin of these edits is deeply suspect. I am also sharing this information with Project Gutenberg, so that they may be made aware of it as well.

So, in the end, even if you do not change the versions present on your website, I think this information is at least worth mentioning somewhere that is viewable to readers.

Thank you,

Red

P. S. Did anything come of the pull request to reorder the Reggie Pepper stories? I know it was mentioned that the order was being fixed to that of their publication, but I haven't seen it fixed yet, unfortunately, so I just wanted to check in on that. I can send over Archive scans of each Strand edition of the story to prove the date of release, if necessary.

(Also, since the continuity in the American versions of the stories are different, it's probably worth noting that "Disentangling Old Duggie" and "The Test Case" are the American versions of the story, unlike the other two which reproduce the British versions. While not terribly noticeable in "Test Case", it's rather important for "Duggie", as people reading may be rather confused as to why the otherwise-English Reggie Pepper is suddenly from New York - especially since that story features Florence Craye, who is English both in the British version of the Pepper story and, much more famously, the Jeeves stories. I know I was certainly confused when I read them on this site before I found that out.)

Alex Cabal

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Nov 15, 2023, 6:03:29 PM11/15/23

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Unfortunately it doesn't really matter what someone on the internet says
about these stories. We require either a transcription from PG, or
absent that transcription, page scans with a copyright date. This is a
legal issue and we can't get around it. PG will almost certainly say the
same thing, but presumably they have cleared their own edition with page
scans of a copyright page. (They don't share those scans however.)

On 11/15/23 1:56 AM, Red (aceredshirt13) wrote:
> Hello again! Long message ahead, so my apologies.
>
> PGDP has not replied to my correspondence, so I asked the Wodehouse
> mailing list I'm on if they could shed some light on the abridgement of
> the Pepper stories, upon which is Neil Midkiff, a prominent Wodehouse
> archivist and scholar that edits the Madame Eulalie website. Neil gave
> me a very extensive, well-researched response that is beyond my own
> resources, and also gave me permission to cite it here, as he shared my
> concern that the versions of "Concealed Art" and "The Test Case" as
> present on Standard eBooks and Project Gutenberg were altered after
> Wodehouse's death without his consent.
>
> (Context for the beginning of Neil's reply: Corky is my nickname on the
> mailing list, and David is another member of the mailing list who had
> suggested the abridgements I mentioned were the result of them perhaps

> being American versions rather than British versions. /The Uncollected
> Wodehouse, Plum Stones,/ and /Enter Jeeves/ are the three physically

> published editions that collect one or both of these two Reggie Pepper
> stories. If anything else about Neil's response is too esoteric without
> context, let me know and I will explain it.)
>

> /Although David's comments are true in many cases, in the case of these

> –Neil Midkiff/

> <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater> <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater>> <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater> <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater <https://archive.org/details/TheStrandMagazineVolume49/page/144/mode/2up?view=theater>>>>, "Concealed Art" can be read, and does match the transcription on Madame Eulalie - complete with all of the passages strangely omitted in the apparently now-unsourceable print edition. (I truly cannot find any record of an earlier print than /Plum Stones/ and /Enter Jeeves/, though, and I cannot even find a scan of /Plum Stones/ to know if "Concealed Art" was abridged for that publication.) So given the rather mysterious circumstances of the abridgement of "Concealed Art", and the fact that it was never printed in a book when Wodehouse was alive, I at the very least think it would be worth considering replacing the current shortened version with the lengthier original.

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