[First Project] At the mountains of madness by H.P. Lovecraft

[Dylan Koldenhof]

Good day,

A few days ago I discovered the Standard Ebooks project. It's a really cool idea and I'm interested in contributing and learning about ebook production in general. I wanted to read Lovecraft sometime, so this seemed a perfect pick form the list. However, I checked the group to see someone already started with it, but there's been no updates on that since August. Is it possible for me to take this over?

Best regards,

Dylan

[Alex Cabal]

Hi Dylan, that project was abandoned so you can start it fresh if you'd
like.

Check the previous thread for any gotchas or notes on this ebook that
have already been discussed.

You should try to find page scans of the exact Astounding Stories issues
that this was transcribed from, not any later book or publication. You
may not be able to find scans, that's OK. Your best bet is Internet Archive.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)

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[Dylan Koldenhof]

Hi Alex,

Thank you for the overview! I think I managed to track down the original scans on the Internet Archive, here's the first part if anyone else wants to check it: https://archive.org/details/Astounding_v16n06_1936-02_frankenscan/page/n9/mode/2up

And here's the repository:
https://github.com/dylkol/lovecraft-at_the_mountains_of_madness

I've went through a few of the steps of the guide and I was wondering if you're supposed to manually close some tags before you can run se clean? E.g. <br> -> <br/>. Wasn't much of a problem, but I was wondering if I missed anything since I didn't see that mentioned in the guide anywhere.

Best regards,
Dylan

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[Alex Cabal]

Yes, clean only works on valid XHTML which is much stricter than regular
HTML.

Robin can you manage this with Bruce reviewing?

[Robin Whittleton]

Sure.

> On 2 Dec 2023, at 19:03, Alex Cabal <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
>
> Yes, clean only works on valid XHTML which is much stricter than regular HTML.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/19d7e1f0-f57f-43d9-af7a-f4763cb04f91%40standardebooks.org.

[B Keith]

Can do

Bruce

_________

Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/19d7e1f0-f57f-43d9-af7a-f4763cb04f91%40standardebooks.org.

[Dylan Koldenhof]

Hi,
There's two things I'm not sure of while I'm starting to do the manual semantics, that I couldn't find in the style manual:

• If things like ship names or newspaper names have a possessive 's, should the 's be included between the <i> tags?
• There's the abbreviation 'Mass.', for Massachusetts. Now 8.10.6 says that US state abbreviations shouldn't include any periods and be in capitals, but I assume that is for the two letter ones like NY, DC, etc. However, it should still include the 'z3998:place', right? So is it correct like this: <abbr class="eoc" epub:type="z3998:place">Mass.</abbr> ?

Op zondag 3 december 2023 om 01:14:18 UTC+1 schreef BTK:

[Robin Whittleton]

The possessive apostrophe s goes on the outside of the italics.

The place abbreviation looks correct (assuming of course that it does end the clause).

On 4 Dec 2023, at 08:56, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/db83e68b-d2c1-42ca-bcdc-fc42963bd4c9n%40googlegroups.com.

[Dylan Koldenhof]

Thanks Robin! 

It's been a while, but I've read through the entire thing and I think it's almost done. I just have a few remaining questions:

1. For figures, there's this CSS listed in the guide, however it does seem to be in the core.css file. Does that mean I have to just copy-paste it into local.css? And to what extent does there need to be custom CSS? For example, should the figure captions follow style of the scans and Gutenberg transcription (bold italics)? 
2. At the beginning of the book are multiple instances of transcribed radio communications. I put these in <blockquote>s, but are there any semantics I should use for this? Something like letter wouldn't fit I assume?

Best regards,

Dylan

Op maandag 4 december 2023 om 10:59:58 UTC+1 schreef robin:

[Alex Cabal]

Are you sure <figure> is in core.css? I don't see it anywhere. Are you
using the current version of the toolset? 2.6.1

On 1/5/24 8:37 AM, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
> Thanks Robin!
>
> It's been a while, but I've read through the entire thing and I think
> it's almost done. I just have a few remaining questions:
>

> 1. For figures, there's this CSS
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#7.8.5.4> listed

> in the guide, however it does seem to be in the core.css file. Does
> that mean I have to just copy-paste it into local.css? And to what
> extent does there need to be custom CSS? For example, should the
> figure captions follow style of the scans and Gutenberg
> transcription (bold italics)?

> 2. At the beginning of the book are multiple instances of transcribed

> radio communications. I put these in <blockquote>s, but are there
> any semantics I should use for this? Something like letter wouldn't
> fit I assume?
>
>
> Best regards,
> Dylan
> Op maandag 4 december 2023 om 10:59:58 UTC+1 schreef robin:
>
> The possessive apostrophe s goes on the outside of the italics.
>
> The place abbreviation looks correct (assuming of course that it
> does end the clause).
>
>> On 4 Dec 2023, at 08:56, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard Ebooks
>> <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> There's two things I'm not sure of while I'm starting to do the
>> manual semantics, that I couldn't find in the style manual:
>>

>> * If things like ship names or newspaper names have a possessive

>> 's, should the 's be included between the <i> tags?

>> * There's the abbreviation 'Mass.', for Massachusetts. Now
>> 8.10.6
>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/8-typography#8.10.6> says that US state abbreviations shouldn't include any periods and be in capitals, but I assume that is for the two letter ones like NY, DC, etc. However, it should still include the 'z3998:place', right? So is it correct like this: <abbr class="eoc" epub:type="z3998:place">Mass.</abbr> ?

>>
>>
>> Op zondag 3 december 2023 om 01:14:18 UTC+1 schreef BTK:
>>
>> Can do
>>
>> Bruce
>> _________
>>
>> Gaudeamus igitur iuvenes dum sumus
>>
>>> On Dec 2, 2023, at 11:03 AM, Alex Cabal
>>> <al...@standardebooks.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, clean only works on valid XHTML which is much stricter
>>> than regular HTML.
>>>
>>> Robin can you manage this with Bruce reviewing?
>>>
>>> On 12/2/23 8:39 AM, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>> Thank you for the overview! I think I managed to track down
>>>> the original scans on the Internet Archive, here's the first
>>>> part if anyone else wants to check it:

>>>> https://archive.org/details/Astounding_v16n06_1936-02_frankenscan/page/n9/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/Astounding_v16n06_1936-02_frankenscan/page/n9/mode/2up>

>>>> And here's the repository:

>>>> https://github.com/dylkol/lovecraft-at_the_mountains_of_madness <https://github.com/dylkol/lovecraft-at_the_mountains_of_madness>

>>>>> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics
>>>>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

>>>>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>
>>>>>
>>>>> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>>>>>

>>>>> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step>

>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e497e93d-a4f9-4b38-ba51-73e663508c5cn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e497e93d-a4f9-4b38-ba51-73e663508c5cn%40googlegroups.com> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e497e93d-a4f9-4b38-ba51-73e663508c5cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e497e93d-a4f9-4b38-ba51-73e663508c5cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> Google Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
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>>>>> from it, send an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/dbbb227f-7c7b-4745-a7c6-deac5ffdad89%40standardebooks.org <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/dbbb227f-7c7b-4745-a7c6-deac5ffdad89%40standardebooks.org>.

>>>
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>>
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[Vince]

I suspect there’s a missing not there: “however it does not seem to be…”. I often make that mistake (accidentally leaving off a critical word) myself.

[Robin Whittleton]

On 1, we’d actually just drop the illustrations. House style is to only include illustrations if they’re explanatory (e.g. a map in a murder mystery), if they’re referenced from the text, or if they’re famously part of the book and drawn by the author. These look like standard pulp illustrations to me, and can go.

On 2, just blockquotes should be fine. There’s no specific sematics for radio comms.

-Robin

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9c34107c-a018-4e5a-b3c0-6a1941626cbfn%40googlegroups.com.

[David]

And just to chime in on this one (in addition to previous responses):

On Friday 5 January 2024 at 14:37:28 UTC dylan wrote:

1. For figures, there's this CSS listed in the guide, however it does seem to be in the core.css file. Does that mean I have to just copy-paste it into local.css? And to what extent does there need to be custom CSS? . . .
   

(Where I assume, too, that there's a crucial "not" missing): you'll see at the link you provided that it mentions "additional CSS" (emphasis added), which is just what it says. You need to copy/paste into your project's `local.css` file what you need for your particular production. Most (all?) of the sections in Chapter 7 of SEMoS include sample CSS for you to use (e.g., poems, letters, etc.) on an as-needed basis.

Something I took a while to understand is that your `local.css` file should have `<!-- ... -->` comments breaking your rules into sections, e.g. "Letters begin" ... "Letters end", etc. And sometimes you may need "custom"/bespoke styling for some feature of your text.

Have a look at one of the current productions in the corpus (here's one example, chosen at random) to get a better idea!

Hope this helps.

David / Fife, UK

 

[Vince]

As Robin noted, the CSS isn’t needed at all because the illustrations should be cut.

Also, XHTML is commented with <!-- --> (it’s what’s typically used in the metadata to comment the scans/transcriptions), but CSS isn’t. It is commented C-style, i.e.

/* This is a comment */

And while I personally would like our CSS to have such comments, they are not (currently) required. Updating our manual example CSS and step-by-step to make that a formal requirement, along with /* custom */ (at the bottom of the file) for production-specific CSS, is awaiting a round tuit from me to propose to Alex. (We have the comments on a few sections already, but it would be nice to have them on everything, and to be consistent with having all production-specific CSS together and at the bottom of the file.)

[David]

(Doh! Of course `/* ... */` — brain lapse! Thanks for clarifying, Vince. / D.)

[Dylan Koldenhof]

Thanks all for the responses! And yeah indeed, I meant to add "not" to that sentence, sorry haha. And I must've missed the rules for illustrations, I'll remove them then. Still good to hear this though. I thought the CSS in the style guide was already included, but I'll need to copy some of it then. I guess it makes sense to not have any redundant code but I don't think it was mentioned anywhere in the step-by-step guide to do that, maybe good to mention somewhere (or I'm just blind haha).

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[Weijia Cheng]

There is a rule in the manual explaining the different CSS files, though you're right that it isn't explained explicitly in the step-by-step guide.

[Dylan Koldenhof]

Okay, so I finally found a possible cover image. Initially I wanted to use a Nicholas Roerich painting as is mentioned so often in the text, but I couldn't find a fitting one with a scan in the public domain. There's not much specifically Antarctic works from that time either, so I looked at Arctic ones and in the end found the fairly famous Das Eismeer by C.D. Friedrich. And here's the scan from a 1925 book, page 382. Apart from the ice it doesn't fit the story all that much (there's no shipwreck in the story), but it seems the closest I could find. Is it okay?

Best regards,

Dylan

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b29818d6-b071-4bef-83ed-97453574d0f7n%40googlegroups.com.

[Dylan Koldenhof]

Ohh never mind, I forgot about this search query you could do and I see there's already a book using that painting... I'll keep looking then.

[Alex Cabal]

Roerich would be ideal for this book, he does have a handful of
reproductions in page scans that I've seen before so make sure to search
Google Books by his last name and also some variant spellings of his
last name. More museums are making their collections CC0 lately so
perhaps he has something held by a recently-CC0 museum. We should try to
get a Roerich landscape for this one if possible I think.

On 1/11/24 9:07 AM, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard Ebooks wrote:
> Okay, so I finally found a possible cover image. Initially I wanted to
> use a Nicholas Roerich painting as is mentioned so often in the text,
> but I couldn't find a fitting one with a scan in the public domain.
> There's not much specifically Antarctic works from that time either, so

> I looked at Arctic ones and in the end found the fairly famous /Das
> Eismeer/ by C.D. Friedrich
> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Caspar_David_Friedrich_-_Das_Eismeer_-_Hamburger_Kunsthalle_-_02.jpg>. And here's the scan <https://archive.org/details/diekunstdesklass0000paul/page/382/mode/2up> from a 1925 book, page 382. Apart from the ice it doesn't fit the story all that much (there's no shipwreck in the story), but it seems the closest I could find. Is it okay?

>
> Best regards,
> Dylan
> On Saturday, January 6th, 2024 at 19:36, Weijia Cheng
> <weijia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There is a rule

>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#2.1.2> in the

>> manual explaining the different CSS files, though you're right that it
>> isn't explained explicitly in the step-by-step guide.
>>
>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 10:18:40 AM UTC-8
>> dyl...@protonmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Thanks all for the responses! And yeah indeed, I meant to add
>> "not" to that sentence, sorry haha. And I must've missed the rules
>> for illustrations, I'll remove them then. Still good to hear this
>> though. I thought the CSS in the style guide was already included,
>> but I'll need to copy some of it then. I guess it makes sense to
>> not have any redundant code but I don't think it was mentioned
>> anywhere in the step-by-step guide to do that, maybe good to
>> mention somewhere (or I'm just blind haha).
>> On Saturday, January 6th, 2024 at 17:58, David <djre...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> (Doh! Of course `/* ... */` — brain lapse! Thanks for clarifying,
>>> Vince. / D.)
>>>
>>> On Saturday 6 January 2024 at 16:20:18 UTC Vince wrote:
>>>
>>> As Robin noted, the CSS isn’t needed at all because the
>>> illustrations should be cut.
>>>
>>> Also, XHTML is commented with <!-- --> (it’s what’s typically
>>> used in the metadata to comment the scans/transcriptions),
>>> but CSS isn’t. It is commented C-style, i.e.
>>> /* This is a comment */
>>>

>>> And while I personally would /like/ our CSS to have such

>>> comments, they are not (currently) required. Updating our
>>> manual example CSS and step-by-step to make that a formal
>>> requirement, along with /* custom */ (at the bottom of the
>>> file) for production-specific CSS, is awaiting a round tuit
>>> from me to propose to Alex. (We have the comments on a few
>>> sections already, but it would be nice to have them on
>>> everything, and to be consistent with having all
>>> production-specific CSS together and at the bottom of the file.)
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2024, at 10:25 PM, David <djre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And just to chime in on this one (in addition to previous
>>>> responses):
>>>>
>>>> On Friday 5 January 2024 at 14:37:28 UTC dylan wrote:
>>>>

>>>> 1. For figures, there's this CSS
>>>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#7.8.5.4> listed in the guide, however it does seem to be in the core.css file. Does that mean I have to just copy-paste it into local.css? And to what extent does there need to be custom CSS? . . .

>>>>
>>>> (Where I assume, too, that there's a crucial "not" missing):
>>>> you'll see at the link you provided that it mentions

>>>> "/additional/ CSS" (emphasis added), which is just what it

>>>> says. You need to copy/paste into your project's `local.css`
>>>> file what you need for your particular production. Most
>>>> (all?) of the sections in Chapter 7 of SEMoS include sample
>>>> CSS for you to use (e.g., poems, letters, etc.) on an
>>>> as-needed basis.
>>>>
>>>> Something I took a while to understand is that your
>>>> `local.css` file should have `<!-- ... -->` comments
>>>> breaking your rules into sections, e.g. "Letters begin" ...
>>>> "Letters end", etc. And sometimes you may need
>>>> "custom"/bespoke styling for some feature of your text.
>>>>
>>>> Have a look at one of the current productions in the corpus
>>>> (here's one example

>>>> <https://github.com/standardebooks/alexander-berkman_the-bolshevik-myth/blob/master/src/epub/css/local.css>, chosen at random) to get a better idea!

>>>
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>>
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[Dylan Koldenhof]

Yeah there's definitely Roerich paintings that would work in terms of copyright, but they're mostly Russian or Christian settings, not really anything representing the "strange Asian paintings" (as said in the book), or a polar landscape alternatively. And I couldn't find any museums with those works with CC0 listed either. There's maybe some further digging to be done, or something I missed, so I can still try that later, it kinda seemed like a dead end though.
-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------
Op 11 jan. 2024 17:37, schreef Alex Cabal :

Roerich would be ideal for this book, he does have a handful of reproductions in page scans that I've seen before so make sure to search Google Books by his last name and also some variant spellings of his last name. More museums are making their collections CC0 lately so perhaps he has something held by a recently-CC0 museum. We should try to get a Roerich landscape for this one if possible I think. On 1/11/24 9:07 AM, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard Ebooks wrote: > Okay, so I finally found a possible cover image. Initially I wanted to > use a Nicholas Roerich painting as is mentioned so often in the text, > but I couldn't find a fitting one with a scan in the public domain. > There's not much specifically Antarctic works from that time either, so > I looked at Arctic ones and in the end found the fairly famous /Das > Eismeer/ by C.D. Friedrich > . And here's the scan  from a 1925 book, page 382. Apart from the ice it doesn't fit the story all that much (there's no shipwreck in the story), but it seems the closest I could find. Is it okay? > > Best regards, > Dylan > On Saturday, January 6th, 2024 at 19:36, Weijia Cheng > wrote: > >> There is a rule >> in the >> manual explaining the different CSS files, though you're right that it >> isn't explained explicitly in the step-by-step guide. >> >> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 10:18:40 AM UTC-8 >> dyl...@protonmail.com wrote: >> >> Thanks all for the responses! And yeah indeed, I meant to add >> "not" to that sentence, sorry haha. And I must've missed the rules >> for illustrations, I'll remove them then. Still good to hear this >> though. I thought the CSS in the style guide was already included, >> but I'll need to copy some of it then. I guess it makes sense to >> not have any redundant code but I don't think it was mentioned >> anywhere in the step-by-step guide to do that, maybe good to >> mention somewhere (or I'm just blind haha). >> On Saturday, January 6th, 2024 at 17:58, David >> wrote: >> >>> (Doh! Of course `/* ... */` — brain lapse! Thanks for clarifying, >>> Vince. / D.) >>> >>> On Saturday 6 January 2024 at 16:20:18 UTC Vince wrote: >>> >>> As Robin noted, the CSS isn’t needed at all because the >>> illustrations should be cut. >>> >>> Also, XHTML is commented with (it’s what’s typically >>> used in the metadata to comment the scans/transcriptions), >>> but CSS isn’t. It is commented C-style, i.e. >>> /* This is a comment */ >>> >>> And while I personally would /like/ our CSS to have such >>> comments, they are not (currently) required. Updating our >>> manual example CSS and step-by-step to make that a formal >>> requirement, along with /* custom */ (at the bottom of the >>> file) for production-specific CSS, is awaiting a round tuit >>> from me to propose to Alex. (We have the comments on a few >>> sections already, but it would be nice to have them on >>> everything, and to be consistent with having all >>> production-specific CSS together and at the bottom of the file.) >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 6, 2024, at 10:25 PM, David wrote: >>>> >>>> And just to chime in on this one (in addition to previous >>>> responses): >>>> >>>> On Friday 5 January 2024 at 14:37:28 UTC dylan wrote: >>>> >>>> 1. For figures, there's this CSS >>>> listed in the guide, however it does seem to be in the core.css file. Does that mean I have to just copy-paste it into local.css? And to what extent does there need to be custom CSS? . . . >>>> >>>> (Where I assume, too, that there's a crucial "not" missing): >>>> you'll see at the link you provided that it mentions >>>> "/additional/ CSS" (emphasis added), which is just what it >>>> says. You need to copy/paste into your project's `local.css` >>>> file what you need for your particular production. Most >>>> (all?) of the sections in Chapter 7 of SEMoS include sample >>>> CSS for you to use (e.g., poems, letters, etc.) on an >>>> as-needed basis. >>>> >>>> Something I took a while to understand is that your >>>> `local.css` file should have `` comments >>>> breaking your rules into sections, e.g. "Letters begin" ... >>>> "Letters end", etc. And sometimes you may need >>>> "custom"/bespoke styling for some feature of your text. >>>> >>>> Have a look at one of the current productions in the corpus >>>> (here's one example >>>> , chosen at random) to get a better idea! >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic >>> in the Google Groups "Standard Ebooks" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/DKdPan4kfdU/unsubscribe . >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email >>> to standardebook...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/180bf65d-4b2a-4cf0-aeac-64613a102abdn%40googlegroups.com . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "Standard Ebooks" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/DKdPan4kfdU/unsubscribe . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> standardebook...@googlegroups.com >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/b29818d6-b071-4bef-83ed-97453574d0f7n%40googlegroups.com . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ltJ_YmsG3MmFxrvCAuPzUS3gdleVfE77ioNo3p3jdxZPpMT-WzliCX3zsYG_AQAWuRw1AHhMpxXlU4nSwcOqL7pWb37h-CazhdXt1b9CS0Y%3D%40protonmail.com . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Standard Ebooks" group. 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[Alex Cabal]

What about anything in

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Nicolas_Roerich_Exhibition/RZk5AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22roerich%22&printsec=frontcover

or

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Roerich/OPAYAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=roerich&pg=PP11&printsec=frontcover

> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.

> To view this discussion on the web visit

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[Kate B]

If the Roerich Museum gives these painting dates as 1924, is that not enough proof of its public domain-ness?

https://www.roerich.org/roerich-paintings-selected.php

[Lukas Bystricky]

No, because even if the painting itself should be public domain, technically the photograph of it might not be. That's why we need proof that a photograph (but not necessarily the one you end up using) of the painting was published prior to 1928.

[Vince Rice]

We don’t take their (or anybody else’s) word for it, if they haven’t explicitly given the work a CC0 license.

[Dylan Koldenhof]

These two books that Alex posted I found too, but they don't have much resembling the book, it's mostly Russian scenes. I think most of his Oriental works date from the later 1920s at the earliest, some of which would be public domain, but nothing people put in books during that short period of creation until 1929.

There's a couple in those books that maaybe could fit, seemingly depicting Arctic scenes ("Northern Night" and "Northern Islands"), but I haven't been able to find them anywhere outside of those scans. Based on what I can make out I think they represent a more taiga/tundra landscape, which I don't think would really fit either. But yeah we have to settle on something I guess.

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[Robin Whittleton]

I’m happy to help try to track down PD proof for specific images if you’d like. Let me know which ones you’re considering.

-Robin

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[Emma Sweeney]

There are 3 paintings by Nicholas Roerich in the art catalog. Would any of those work?

Emma

[Kate B]

I liked “The Bridge of Glory” or “Rider of the Evening” quite a bit for At The Mountains of Madness, and “The Bridge of Glory” is even in the SE art database already. 

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[Dylan Koldenhof]

Oh did these just get added to the catalog? Otherwise my bad if I never looked up Roerich there haha, I thought I did. "The Bridge of Glory" indeed works decently, I must've glossed over it in the book, seeing it only in BW. Not exactly Antarctica but close enough, it definitely gives of this 'mysterious vibe'.

In terms of the best painting fitting the book, I think it might be "The Dead City" which I found earlier on. But I don't think it's printed in any PD book, just pointing it out in case someone finds some other scans.

As to "Rider of the Evening", is it the one called "Knight of the evening" in the first book Alex posted? Or this one? I don't think that one is any of the books. I prefer Bridge of Glory to both though, I think that seems like the best candidate out of the ones that are confirmed PD.

Also finally (long post I know) in case any one else is in the same situation, these Google Books links don't work in my country, I can only get fragments. Unless I use VPN, of course. But they are all on the internet archive.

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[Kate B]

Ah, yes, “Knight of the Evening”—the Roerich museum’s translation prefers “Rider” for whatever reason. It’s in the first book linked. But “Bridge of Glory” is great!

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[Robin Whittleton]

I’ve spent some time hunting for PD replication with no luck. Tellingly, roerich-heritage.ru have no provenance before 1963 which usually means it was in private hands from the date of painting until then. http://roerich-heritage.ru/data/ny-mus/10018/?lang=en

If you’re happy with The Bridge of Glory then let’s go for that. Let me know and I’ll assign it to this production.

-Robin

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[Dylan Koldenhof]

Yeah let's go for that then! I'll still need to sort out the metadata, I'll try to have it all finished next week. 

There's also a small typographical thing I just remembered again. In these radio messages in Chapter 2 there's a seemingly deliberate style of not ending the quotation until the end of the section. Should I just add ending quotation marks to these? And would this count as [Editorial] or not?

Here's an example (with most of text replaced by dots):

"Moulton's plane forced ... all weight out.

"You can't imagine ... here to study."

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[Robin Whittleton]

No, that’s fine to leave as it. It’s a standard convention to only close when a single speaker has finished.

-Robin

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[Dylan Koldenhof]

Ah, that's a convention I never knew about then, thanks for cle​aring that up. Then, I think it's done! Not sure if the description is decent, feel free to change it.

There's one error when using se lint, about the Internet archive URLs. I include the page number where the text starts in the magazine in the URL, I see that's done for https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/h-p-lovecraft/short-fiction as well. So it's fine right?

Best regards,

Dylan

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[Alex Cabal]

Yes, but like the other Lovecraft collection please add an
se-lint-ignore.xml entry if you haven't already.

>>>> If you’re happy with /The Bridge of Glory /then let’s go for that.

>>>> Let me know and I’ll assign it to this production.
>>>>
>>>> -Robin
>>>>
>>>>> On 13 Jan 2024, at 21:31, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard Ebooks
>>>>> <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh did these just get added to the catalog? Otherwise my bad if I
>>>>> never looked up Roerich there haha, I thought I did. "The Bridge of
>>>>> Glory" indeed works decently, I must've glossed over it in the
>>>>> book, seeing it only in BW. Not exactly Antarctica but close
>>>>> enough, it definitely gives of this 'mysterious vibe'.
>>>>>
>>>>> In terms of the best painting fitting the book, I think it might be
>>>>> "The Dead City

>>>>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Roerich_GradObr.jpg>"

>>>>> which I found earlier on. But I don't think it's printed in any PD
>>>>> book, just pointing it out in case someone finds some other scans.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to "Rider of the Evening", is it the one called "Knight of the
>>>>> evening" in the first book Alex posted? Or this one

>>>>> <https://www.wikiart.org/en/nicholas-roerich/night-rider-1918-2>? I

>>>>> don't think that one is any of the books. I prefer Bridge of Glory
>>>>> to both though, I think that seems like the best candidate out of
>>>>> the ones that are confirmed PD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also finally (long post I know) in case any one else is in the same
>>>>> situation, these Google Books links don't work in my country, I can
>>>>> only get fragments. Unless I use VPN, of course. But they are all
>>>>> on the internet archive.
>>>>> On Saturday, January 13th, 2024 at 20:53, Kate B
>>>>> <kbar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I liked “The Bridge of Glory” or “Rider of the Evening” quite a
>>>>>> bit for At The Mountains of Madness, and “The Bridge of Glory” is
>>>>>> even in the SE art database already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2024 at 8:27 AM Robin Whittleton <ro...@reala.net
>>>>>> <mailto:ro...@reala.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m happy to help try to track down PD proof for specific
>>>>>> images if you’d like. Let me know which ones you’re considering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Robin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On 13 Jan 2024, at 14:48, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard
>>>>>> Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > These two books that Alex posted I found too, but they don't
>>>>>> have much resembling the book, it's mostly Russian scenes. I
>>>>>> think most of his Oriental works date from the later 1920s at
>>>>>> the earliest, some of which would be public domain, but
>>>>>> nothing people put in books during that short period of
>>>>>> creation until 1929.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > There's a couple in those books that maaybe could fit,
>>>>>> seemingly depicting Arctic scenes ("Northern Night" and
>>>>>> "Northern Islands"), but I haven't been able to find them
>>>>>> anywhere outside of those scans. Based on what I can make out
>>>>>> I think they represent a more taiga/tundra landscape, which I
>>>>>> don't think would really fit either. But yeah we have to
>>>>>> settle on something I guess.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Friday, January 12th, 2024 at 16:17, Vince Rice
>>>>>> <vr_se...@letterboxes.org

>>>>>> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> We don’t take their (or anybody else’s) word for it, if
>>>>>> they haven’t explicitly given the work a CC0 license.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> On Jan 12, 2024, at 12:54 AM, Kate B kbar...@gmail.com

>>>>>> <mailto:kbar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> If the Roerich Museum gives these painting dates as 1924,
>>>>>> is that not enough proof of its public domain-ness?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> --
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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[Dylan Koldenhof]

Ah, missed that one, added now!

> > > > > > https://www.wikiart.org/en/nicholas-roerich/night-rider-1918-2? I

> > > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
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[Alex Cabal]

OK, I've looked it over and this all looks very good. Very good
attention to detail. I've gone ahead and released it, thanks!

If you'd like to work on something more advanced next, see our wanted
list for moderate-difficulty productions, or pitch something else you'd
be interested in working on!

>>>> If you’re happy with /The Bridge of Glory /then let’s go for that.

>>>> Let me know and I’ll assign it to this production.
>>>>
>>>> -Robin
>>>>
>>>>> On 13 Jan 2024, at 21:31, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard Ebooks
>>>>> <standar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh did these just get added to the catalog? Otherwise my bad if I
>>>>> never looked up Roerich there haha, I thought I did. "The Bridge of
>>>>> Glory" indeed works decently, I must've glossed over it in the
>>>>> book, seeing it only in BW. Not exactly Antarctica but close
>>>>> enough, it definitely gives of this 'mysterious vibe'.
>>>>>
>>>>> In terms of the best painting fitting the book, I think it might be
>>>>> "The Dead City

>>>>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Roerich_GradObr.jpg>"

>>>>> which I found earlier on. But I don't think it's printed in any PD
>>>>> book, just pointing it out in case someone finds some other scans.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to "Rider of the Evening", is it the one called "Knight of the
>>>>> evening" in the first book Alex posted? Or this one

>>>>> <https://www.wikiart.org/en/nicholas-roerich/night-rider-1918-2>? I

>>>>> don't think that one is any of the books. I prefer Bridge of Glory
>>>>> to both though, I think that seems like the best candidate out of
>>>>> the ones that are confirmed PD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also finally (long post I know) in case any one else is in the same
>>>>> situation, these Google Books links don't work in my country, I can
>>>>> only get fragments. Unless I use VPN, of course. But they are all
>>>>> on the internet archive.
>>>>> On Saturday, January 13th, 2024 at 20:53, Kate B
>>>>> <kbar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I liked “The Bridge of Glory” or “Rider of the Evening” quite a
>>>>>> bit for At The Mountains of Madness, and “The Bridge of Glory” is
>>>>>> even in the SE art database already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2024 at 8:27 AM Robin Whittleton <ro...@reala.net
>>>>>> <mailto:ro...@reala.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m happy to help try to track down PD proof for specific
>>>>>> images if you’d like. Let me know which ones you’re considering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Robin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On 13 Jan 2024, at 14:48, 'Dylan Koldenhof' via Standard
>>>>>> Ebooks <standar...@googlegroups.com

>>>>>> <mailto:standar...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > These two books that Alex posted I found too, but they don't
>>>>>> have much resembling the book, it's mostly Russian scenes. I
>>>>>> think most of his Oriental works date from the later 1920s at
>>>>>> the earliest, some of which would be public domain, but
>>>>>> nothing people put in books during that short period of
>>>>>> creation until 1929.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > There's a couple in those books that maaybe could fit,
>>>>>> seemingly depicting Arctic scenes ("Northern Night" and
>>>>>> "Northern Islands"), but I haven't been able to find them
>>>>>> anywhere outside of those scans. Based on what I can make out
>>>>>> I think they represent a more taiga/tundra landscape, which I
>>>>>> don't think would really fit either. But yeah we have to
>>>>>> settle on something I guess.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Friday, January 12th, 2024 at 16:17, Vince Rice
>>>>>> <vr_se...@letterboxes.org

>>>>>> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> We don’t take their (or anybody else’s) word for it, if
>>>>>> they haven’t explicitly given the work a CC0 license.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> On Jan 12, 2024, at 12:54 AM, Kate B kbar...@gmail.com

>>>>>> <mailto:kbar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> If the Roerich Museum gives these painting dates as 1924,
>>>>>> is that not enough proof of its public domain-ness?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
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[Dylan Koldenhof]

Thanks! I'll think on it and make a new thread once I have something then.

> > > > > > https://www.wikiart.org/en/nicholas-roerich/night-rider-1918-2? I

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> > > > > > >

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