Primesense Carmine 1.09

[James Allan]

THe Carmine 1.09 finally arrived and I fire it up quickly to try it out. Straight from the box, the geometry improved a bit but the biggest difference of course is in the texture quality. 

When I put the +2.5 lenses on I was blown away by the level of detail I could get.

I do have to go on a diet.

That aside, we had our business partners over yesterday and decide it was time for a demo and a scan of everyone so we could all be "in print". Noticed a lot of borking with the geometry and it took several attempts to get something decent. We had a lot of trouble compared to scanning with the Kinect and I put this down mostly to the larger texture capture that is occurring  As the day went on it got worse. The Skanect would have to be relaunched after every scan as the info coming from the scanner would freeze. And then it started to happen while we were setting up for the scan.

Now, I hadn't installed the latest OpenNI drives at that point and after I did, it seemed to make some difference but there was still the need to relaunch Skanect after each scan. The framerate I think is the biggest issue and depending on how Skanect writes the image files to disk, I think some if not all of the hiccups are due to a fragmented disc.

So next steps are to optimize the PC laptop (any tips because I'm actually a Mac guy?) and perhaps use the medium GPU build for the preview, doing a high rez version in "post".

[James Allan]

Small update - I thought Skanect was mapping a higher rez texture to the geometry but as it turns out, it is still 640x480, the same as the Kinect (this is what is being saved in the scan file). Yet I could swear the texture looks better, sharper details, etc. Was it just wishful thinking or did I miss something? Is the colour camera on the Carmine just better?

[James Allan]

Can anyone offer suggestions on how to get the higher texture maps from the scanner? I'm sure I'm missing something simple here but I'm not seeing it :P

[Nicolas Burrus]

Hi James,

The color camera of the Carmine 09 might be slightly better, but I didn't read anything about this yet. The improved details might be because you can get closer to the subject when scanning?

Regarding the need to restart Skanect after each scan, this is very strange. Do you have to do this because the frame rate drops if you keep using the same instance?

Btw, very promising results with the glasses! Are you just putting some regular glasses in front of the camera?

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[James Allan]

I bought a pair of cheap +2.5 glasses from a discount store, popped the lenses out of the frames and carefully taped them to the scanner. I was surprised and pleased with the results. I have to try a few more scans and objects to see how far it can be pushed. The texture mapping doesn't work because the alignment is out.

[James Allan]

I compared the images from the Carmine and Kinect scanners and the Carmine is definitely better - sharper I think. I also think you're right, I'm getting in closer so that is improving the overall image quality.

[Harsh Chopra]

Hello James, 

We are also trying to capture higher details using lens setup suggested. Though we have following queries regarding the same . 

1. What kind of lens do you suggested can be used . Does a optical lens would work or convex lens is required ?

2. What is the suggested power for the lens which can be used to capture details. Can we use a lens more than +2.5D ? Currently with +2.5D we are able to go 5 cm closer which do not result in much improvement in quality.

    We would like to know if we can go closer to get further improved quality by using higher power lens .

3. Do we need lens for both IR and and sensor ? It appears we can shut off camera for texture and hence no lens is required for it in order to capture geometry without texture. Though , for geometry only , can we place lens only at IR or only at sensor to achieve better quality ?

Thanks,

Harsh

[vadasent...@gmail.com]

Hello, James. I would like to know what kind of lens you used to get such precision texturing, where to buy it, and a tutorial on how to apply it without breaking my Carmine 1.09.

Thank You! =)

[James Allan]

Hi V,

As I state above, I popped the lenses out of a cheap pair of reading glasses and simply taped them to the Carmine. I've since started working on a proper mounting but if you do a google search or check out Youtube, you may find some tutorials there to help you along.

You don't have to break your Carmine :D

[Andrew Sartori]

Hi! This may be an odd question, but I'm scanning some items for 3D printing an I don't like the resolution that the Kinect has been giving me. I've tried the Xtion Pro but I need a camera that I can get close to a patient with. Could I but your Carmine from you?

[James Allan]

Sorry Andrew but the Carmine has become my primary sensor for the moment, so I'm loath to part with it. Plus I like having backup ;)

Have you tried Ebay or Kijiji?

Somebody must have stock out there.

I can say that putting the lenses on any one of the sensors will improve the capture and it's worth experimenting to see if you can workable results. Unfortunately with any of the sensors, there is a limit as to the level of detail you can capture. Wish I could be of more help.

Anyone else out there willing to part with their Carmine?

[Jan Krummrey]

I've seen someone selling theirs for $500 on ebay. Pretty steep markup. ;)

I'd be interested in buying one. Not for that price though...

[eyebee]

Hi guys,

Have got my hands on a Carmine 1.0.9 but the results aren't as good as expected - they seem 'blocky'. Perhaps my expectations are too much? Can you define something like fingers without the hand becoming 'webbed' without going down the glasses mod route and being limited to a 30 odd cm capture depth?

Trying to nail it down but going round in circles.

So here are some question and any help would be greatly appreciated!

1.I'm on a mac (10.8.5 using the 1.6.3 beta) - do I need to download the OpenNI2 drivers and therefore also the freenect driver that seems to be necessary? (according to this post: http://www.theworldneedsmoredreamers.net/using-openni-2-2-beta-on-os-x/) or not?

2. Is there any way to see which drivers are being used by Skanect?

3. Is there any way to verify the firmware version on the Primesense (this was apparently updated on a windows machine)

4. The images are at 640x480, is this the limit? Other answers on the forum suggest this is the case. I's it possible to change from VGA mode in the config files? (an echo of James' question "Can anyone offer suggestions on how to get the higher texture maps from the scanner? I'm sure I'm missing something simple here but I'm not seeing it :P")

5. Does the manual gain control work for others with mac/carmine 1.0.9? The fact that is doesn't for me suggests it could be driver related this end...

Any answers from people who've used these consistently on a mac would be great!

Many thanks for any clues,

Eyebee

[James Allan]

I can't really comment on many of your questions but I can say that the "blocky" result sounds like a driver issue. I've scanned hands and get fingers without difficulty (see image) and without resorting to lenses.

Although I'm running on a PC (with the carmine firmware update), I can't see any other reason you'd be getting different results.

Can you post a shot of your current results?

James

PS having trouble posting images this evening. I'll try again later.

[James Allan]

For some reason I'm unable to embed an image in my posts so here is a link to the hand scan I refer to in the above post.

Example Hand Scan

Hope this helps you figure things out.

James

[eyebee]

Hi James,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and post the scans. Great to know what I should be expecting at least!

Attached a couple of shots of my hand taken from about 60cm, then a shot of it after watertighting at 'very low' setting, which shows the weird webbing.

Will keep investigating and welcome any other insights on the drivers front.

Out of interest James, did you need to do any calibration on your Primesense?

All the best,

Eyebee

[eyebee]

Some more food for thought..

it seems (after looking in the Skanect package contents) that here is the requisite dylib libraries there, which as far as I can tell should take care of the OpenNI2 drivers.

The log is here and will bold bits of interest:

INFO: Starting Skanect 1.6.0beta3 (64 bits)
INFO: Configuration file: /Users/MacPro/Library/Preferences/com.manctl.Skanect.plist
INFO: License configuration file: /Users/MacPro/Library/Preferences/com.manctl.SkanectLicense.plist
INFO: Number of CUDA devices: 1
INFO: Device 0:  "GeForce GTX 570"  2054Mb / 2560Mb
INFO: Device 0: sm_20, 480 cores
INFO: Device 0: Driver/Runtime ver.5.50/5.50
INFO: CUDA major: 2
INFO: CUDA GeForce GTX 570, global memory: 2559M
INFO: CUDA device specs seem ok.
INFO: Could instanciate a GPU fusion successfully.
WARNING: Could not remove directory `/Users/MacPro/Documents/Scans/open_studios/2014-01-28_12_43_55.skn/images', could not remove all files.
WARNING: Could not remove directory `/Users/MacPro/Documents/Scans/open_studios/2014-01-28_12_43_55.skn/images', could not remove all files.
WARNING: Could not remove directory `/Users/MacPro/Documents/Scans/open_studios/2014-01-28_12_43_55.skn/images', could not remove all files.
INFO: No support for Kinect for Windows SDK.
INFO: OpenNI2: Device "1d27/0609@253/4" present.
INFO: OpenNI2: Device info: [PS1080] [7463] [1545].
INFO: OpenNI2: Number of devices: 1
INFO: No support for softkinetic, skipping.
WARNING: Warning: sensor calibration data is missing.
INFO: OpenNI2: Opening: 1d27/0609@253/4
INFO: OpenNI2: Number of devices: 1
INFO: Depth Intrinsics: fx/fy/cx/cy [540.994 | 540.994 | 320.000 | 240.000]
INFO: Color Intrinsics: fx/fy/cx/cy [540.994 | 540.994 | 320.000 | 240.000]
WARNING: Could not read device serial number.
INFO: OpenNI2 Status:
WARNING: Could not remove directory `/Users/MacPro/Documents/Scans/open_studios/2014-01-28_12_43_55.skn/images', could not remove all files.
WARNING: Could not remove directory `/Users/MacPro/Documents/Scans/open_studios/2014-01-28_12_43_55.skn/images', could not remove all files.
WARNING: Could not remove directory `/Users/MacPro/Documents/Scans/open_studios/2014-01-28_12_43_55.skn/images', could not remove all files.
WARNING: Could not remove directory `/Users/MacPro/Documents/Scans/open_studios/2014-01-28_12_43_55.skn/images', could not remove all files.
INFO: Image processing framerate: 29.880478
INFO: Live reconstruction framerate: 30.126337
INFO: Write on disk frame rate: 29.870033
INFO: Task `Pausing: synchronizing frames' started
INFO: CUDA free memory: 1914M / 2559M
INFO: Task `Pausing: synchronizing frames' terminated

Now according to Cuda information, my current version is 5.5.25 as recommended elsewhere on the forums, but the runtime in the logs says 5.50 which I'll investigate. There is also the option to update to 5.5.28 but I think that is mainly for Mavericks users.

More interesting perhaps is the warning that calibration data is missing and 'cannot read serial number'.

tbc....
 

[James Allan]

That is rough looking indeed. I'm guessing based on the images that the sensor is stationary and would ask you to try scanning your (or someone else's) hand while moving the sensor around it. Still, I see the blockiness you're talking about which is not good and the webbing maybe an artifact of that. Outside of double checking you have the correct updates/drivers, I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you would be getting results like these.

I didn't do any calibration of the carmine but for the firmware update, it's straight out of the box.

[Nicolas Burrus]

Hi,

You log file seems ok, these warning should be harmless. To get a good
quality, you need to capture different viewpoints of the hand by
moving around it. A single frame from a Carmine is pretty noisy, it is
the fusion over time that makes the model more precise and good
looking.

[eyebee]

Hey Nicolas,

Thanks for your reply. We seemed to be getting similar results using the Primesense on our rig regarding the webbing on the fingers. Will try to alter the scanning speed, run some more tests and post some more images.

Thanks guys for helping narrow things down.

Regarding my other questions, for the record this is where I am:

1.I'm on a mac (10.8.5 using the 1.6.3 beta) - do I need to download the OpenNI2 drivers and therefore also the freenect driver that seems to be necessary? (according to this post: http://www.theworldneedsmoredreamers.net/using-openni-2-2-beta-on-os-x/

) or not?

---> The freenect driver seems to only be necessary for OpenNI2 if you want to use it with an xbox KINECT, OpenNI2 drivers are packaged with this version of Skanect (1.6.3)

2. Is there any way to see which drivers are being used by Skanect?

??

3. Is there any way to verify the firmware version on the Primesense (this was apparently updated on a windows machine)

--> Perhaps not the most scientific method, but plugged it into a windows machine and ran the update, firmware update was already installed - verified.

4. The images are at 640x480, is this the limit? Other answers on the forum suggest this is the case. I's it possible to change from VGA mode in the config files? (an echo of James' question "Can anyone offer suggestions on how to get the higher texture maps from the scanner? I'm sure I'm missing something simple here but I'm not seeing it :P")

??

5. Does the manual gain control work for others with mac/carmine 1.0.9? The fact that is doesn't for me suggests it could be driver related this end...

--> Still no ability to set the manual gain control in Skanect, which is why I suspected the firmware. With Primesense firmware updated I still can't set manual gain control.

tbc...

[Nicolas Burrus]

2. The log file (Settings/Open Log File) should show you which driver
Skanect is using.

4. VGA is the maximal current resolution supported by Skanect. Kinect
itself can give higher resolution color images, but they are still
pretty low quality ayway.

5. How do you test if automatic gain works? In automatic mode you
would see the gain adjust itself as you move towards a bright/dark
area, and then you can lock it to its current gain value using manual
mode. In that case it should not adapt anymore.

[Ian Byrne]

Excellent, thanks Nicolas.

Been stuck into hardware again but will take a look as soon as I get the chance.

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[Ian Byrne]

hey Nicolas,

5. Can confirm that the manual gain lock is working just as you explained. What had me puzzled before was the box with 'gain control' written in it to the left of automatic/manual - I just made the wrong presumtion that a slider should be showing in there on manual mode.

Thanks again.

[Nicolas Burrus]

Heard your feedback Ian, this could indeed be made more explicit. The
initial intent was to put a slider, which you would get with a Kinect
for Windows, but Carmine firmware wasn't handling a slider correctly
at this stage.

[Ian Byrne]

Still an excellent feature to have and probably should have figured out myself that it is essentially a gain lock.

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[Anna K.]

Hello there,

I have a new Carmine 1.09 boxed including specs, freshest firmware & driver,...
but decided to use other scan method for my project. So...

OFFERING A BRAND NEW PRIMESENSE CARMINE 1.09 BOXED
380 USD / 280 EUR including shipping & tax. (optionally paypal).

Or anyone may send me a private message - thanks!