Firmware update for Carmine 1.09

[Nicolas Burrus]

Hi all,

Primesense has just released a firmware update for the Carmine 1.09.
They say that "a USB communication enhancement has been added, which
solves some USB-related issues.".

So hopefully it will help people experiencing USB issues on some
recent laptops. We haven't tested it yet, but feedback about it is
very welcome.

Cheers,
Nicolas

[James Allan]

Yeah, just saw that. Have to try it now and see how it does. Be right back :)

[James Allan]

I applied the firmware update and rebooted my system and - NOTHING.

Skanect, OpenNI Viewer even the software I used to update the sensor can not see it. Windows (if I kick it hard enough) sees it but doesn't know what to do with it (It thinks it's an audio device !?) and wants me to find the drivers. Good luck with that.

So I reinstalled the OpenNI2 package, etc hoping that might be the issue but nope. Still nothing.

The promises in the update were so exciting with better framerates and improved image quality, and so you can imagine my disappointment with the situation. I've sent and email to the support address but that may take days before we get a response ;)

Please tell me someone else had better success with this than me :)

I'm running Windows 8 by the way.

I need a hamburger.

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:31:14 AM UTC-4, Nicolas Burrus wrote:

[Nicolas Burrus]

Argh, sorry about that!! Damn, I hope they'll be reactive on that one.
We are also going to push them on our side. Is there a way to restore
the old firmware?

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Skanect" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to skanect+u...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[James Allan]

I hope they get back to me quickly. I followed the instructions carefully but with these things I never know if I've missed some small obvious thing. You know how it is :P

The sad thing is they say you can't go back once you update it and besides, nothing can detect the sensor now so not sure what's next :(

[James Allan]

Small update for me - Tested it on my iMac and the sensor is still working so it's something to do with the Windows machine not having the correct drivers or something. Nuts.

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 12:11:20 PM UTC-4, Nicolas Burrus wrote:

[Skanect Noob]

James, 

Have you looked at the release notes? There's a workaround that you need to apply to get the drivers to recognize the sensor with with its new USB product ID. It's in Section 7 (pg 8). http://www.primesense.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/PrimeSense_Carmine-1-09_FW-5_9_2_ReleaseNotes.pdf

I haven't tried it yet, but Primesense had pointed out that this workaround with the firmware update would address the Windows 8 USB 3.0 issues.

Good luck!

[Skanect Noob]

A note on the first workaround: it's for OpenNi1. 

[James Allan]

You're completely correct that the "Known Issues" section contains the answer... sort of. That "sort of" is my view on it as I found it hard to understand (not that bright am I ;) ) so when it said "recommends that our customers upgrade to OpenNI2" I thought I was good. That's what I THOUGHT I was using. Here's the response from Primesense:

Dear James

The issue you are suffering from is probably caused by the fact that you are using OpenNI1 with the new updated FW.
Since this is a known issue, we documented it in the release notes known issues.

Here is a short summary of the workaround that should help you solve this case:
Go to the following webpage (OpenNI Historic versions): http://www.openni.org/openni-sdk/openni-sdk-history-2/
Download these following components according to your operating system:
- OpenNI SDK v1.5.7.4
- OpenNI-Compliant Sensor Driver v5.1.6.4

this should enable OpenNI SDK to recognise the sensor with the new FW

Please refer to the known issues in the release notes.

Best regards
Hagay

This fixed the issue, now I need to figure out how to configure the USB buses. I'm not much of a propellor head especially on Windows/PC combination so any advice here would be appreciated.

In the current configuration, Skanect 1.5.0 is frozen on startup. It does detect the sensor but when you go to the record screen, the sensor data flow is frozen or locked (still image). In the 8 or 10 times I tried to launch it I only had it "work" once and that was at a frame rate of 1 frame per 10 seconds. It quickly froze again and that was that.

Getting closer ;)

[Nicolas Burrus]

Damn, this is not fun. Thanks for keeping us up to date. I've noticed
the "bulk mode" they mention in the release notes, we'll check on our
side if we are using it (not sure about the default), since they claim
it can help.

[James Allan]

Sorry about this guys - feel like I'm spamming the forum now.

I'm assuming I'm using the openNI2 stuff and there are three config files called PS1080.ini. Which is the one used by the program - is it the one in Redist folder?

Also struggling with permissions on my machine. I am listed as an Admin but I can't update any files in these folders. sigh

[James Allan]

Ah, figured out the admin thing finally.

[James Allan]

Okay, so the final word on my updating the Carmine firmware is: It doesn't work. 

Skanect 1.5.0 is running but the Carmine isn't doing anything. The data is not even coming through and it looks frozen with occasionally a single frame update. No scanning is possible.

Now you've seen my thread of "WTF" stuff above so it's more than conceivable I've missed something but as of now the Carmine is useless in Skanect 1.5.0. At least for me.

I'm open to all advice at this point :)

[Nicolas Burrus]

James, does NiViewer works at all? Skanect won't use the INI files, we
set the parameters programmatically. NiViewer will read those INI
files though, so it could be a good hint if some parameters work.

And no worry, you're not spamming, but helping everyone by being a
pioneer... sorry it broke your setup so far :-(

[Vadas Enterprises]

Carmine 1.09 works for me, no problem.

[Skanect Noob]

Vadas, 

Which version of Windows are you on? 64bit?

And are you connecting USB2 or USB 3?

thanks

[emmanuel garnier]

Hi, 

I am in windows 7 with openNI 2

I have update my carmine 1.09 with new firmware and i have got the same problem :skanect cant detec the device

test simple viewer : try to initiate and freeze.

rebooting my PC

test simple read and i have a result, put my hand in front of sensor give me a bunch of zero ... hurra

in ps1080console i have firmware pointed to V5.7.9-RD109-112, 

launch different tools, test again simple viewer ... and it's work

launch skannect again : OpenNi 2 sensor detected.

I hope this can help you guy !

[Michael Gordon]

Relieved to find that this is not a problem that only I have!

I'm trying to run Skanect with the Carmine 1.09 on two machines.

Firstly, my desktop. Running Windows 8 64 bit. Prior to the firmware update this worked fairly well. Unfortunately Skanect doesn't recognise AMD video cards so it ran on the CPU (i7) only and gave around 15 fps. Quite satisfactory.

After the update it's unusable at aournd 1 fps or less.

I've only ever used OpenNI2 and have applied the recommended changes to all three PS1080.ini files.

Secondly my Acer S7 392. This has only two USB ports, both USB 3.0. Also running Windows 8 64 bit.

Prior to the firmware update Skanect showed no image at all and a message would come up about 'insufficient USB resources'. 

After the firmware update Skanect does show two images in the top right of the Skanect widow, but nothing appears in the central wire frame cube, even after 2 or 3 minutes.

Finally. After the firmware update I downloaded the trial version of ReconstructMe to my desktop. This does recognise my AMD video card and appears to work moderately well. Of course I've no idea how well it would have worked before the firmware update, but it may be of significance that it definitely works heaps better that Skanect with the updated firmware.

[victor bourdon]

Hello Nicolas,

After reading David's post, I updated my Carmine 1.9 with fingers crossed. After restarting my PC, I ran Skanect with no problems. (whew)

I am getting 18-21 FPS on USB 2 and USB 3. So it looks like Skanect is working. I'm using Windows 8.1 and a GTX 670, and I7 processor.

Prior to the Carmine update, I was using a USB 2 extension on my USB 3 port with no problems. Now, after the update the extension only works on the USB 2 port. I will be getting a new USB 3 extension on Thursday.

 

Victor

[Michael Gordon]

"After reading David's post...."

Can't find David's post - where is it?

[Michael Gordon]

Seeing that you're running Windows 8.1 I've just done the update on my desktop.

Greatly improved performance with Skanect.

Roughly halfway back to the original performance I reckon. Don't see much better than 10 fps (CPU only) and used to see approaching 20 fps.

On Sunday, 20 October 2013 03:10:50 UTC+11, victor bourdon wrote:

[Michael Gordon]

Yesterday I posted that I saw a significant improvement with Windows 8.1.

I've been unable to duplicate it. Back to a frozen image at worst and a fraction of 1 fps at best on my desktop, and on my S7 392 (also Windows 8.1 64 bit) I get the two images at the upper right, but nothing at all in the wire frame cube.

Also, the trial version of ReconstructMe is no longer working in any real sense on either machine.

On Thursday, 17 October 2013 00:31:14 UTC+11, Nicolas Burrus wrote:

[Nicolas Burrus]

Hi Michael,

What about NiViewer? Does it run at all?

[Michael Gordon]

It seems to be working fine. Has no trouble following movement.

[Nicolas Burrus]

Thanks, this is good news. Going to upgrade our firmware today and see
how it goes. Hopefully this will lead to a quick fix!

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Michael Gordon

[Carlos Padial]

Hi there.

I have been using skanect for two months now. Last month i get a carmine 109 and it has been working with the same issues described by Allan. It gets about 8-15 fps on my laptop (only usb3)  but it goes down to 2-3 many times during the scanning process. I can make scanners but with a lot of patience, as i usually had to restart skanect to get the sensor working after each use. the laptop is running windows8.

I upgrade the firmware and have the same problems you have described. The camera no longer works (didn't tested with niviewer, had to try)

I am doing mainly manual adquisition by moving the carmine by hand, and have noticed that some times, when the skanect preview is freeze, if you shake the carmine a little or move it, the preview gets alive again (seems like the camera were in some kind of standby...), but many times it only works again for a little... dont know if this can be useful info at all.

Nicolas, i know your work since firsts rgbdemo versions, many thanks for that. I finally choosed skannect to pay a license for when i find your name related to the app. I am a linux user and my laptop keep a windows partition only to work with skanect :P

Hope you find the problem or lead us to the problem to ask primesense about.

[Nicolas Burrus]

We are in touch with Primesense, and they are willing to help. Expect
more about this today or tomorrow, thanks for your patience!

[JUAN PEÑALVER]

good morning, that thought does not solve the problem as USB, the end did not put a USB extension terjeta three with their own drivers. Simply change the USB legacy BIOS.

Juan peñalver

[Joe @ evok3d.com]

Hi Nicholas,

I did the Carmine 1.09 firmware update today and installed Open NI 2.2. It has fixed the "not enough USB controller resources" issue and Ni Viewer works great now. However in Skanect I get the frozen images in the top right and it wont scan. it does seem to occasionally grab another frame but super slow. 

Should I use Bulk USB Mode as per the release notes? If so how do I do this? what is PS1080.ini? I found 3 identical text files named that and all the recommend settings are as per the release notes except  Image Input format which is currently  (InputFormat=5) how do i change this?

For reference this is what I am working to from the from the release notes;

Certain USB chipsets can cause a reduction in performance as a result of their internal technology.  

Workaround: Use BULK USB Mode. 

Since BULK mode support compressed modes only, you need to set the streams to compressed mode. The following procedures describe how to do this for OpenNI2 and OpenNI1: 

OpenNI2: Use PS1080.ini: 

• •• • 

Change USB Interface to BULK  (UsbInterface=2) 

• •• • 

Change Depth Input format to Compression (InputFormat=1) 

• •• • 

Change Image Input format to Compression (InputFormat=1) 

[Nicolas Burrus]

Hi,

One quick questions, does NiViewer still work when selecting 640x480
in both the depth and color stream? Here is how to do it:

1) Right click => Device => Stream => Depth => VideoMode => 640x480 @ 30 (1mm)
2) Right click => Device => Stream => Color => VideoMode => 640x480 @
30 (RGB888)

I've upgraded our firmware yesterday and could not reproduce the
issue, but we probably have a workaround for it. More about this
today.

Thanks for your help,
Nicolas

[Joe @ evok3d]

Hi Nicholas,

Yes it still works at those settings but the frame rate seems to drop right
down and hang occasionally. By backing off to 320 x 240 on either of those
settings it picks up again. Does seem to be more sensitive to the Color
settings and can run Depth at 640x480 @ 30 (100um) no probs if the Color is
at 320 x 240.

Regards, Joe


evok3d
Customer Support Team
ABN: 19 163 401 081
Melbourne Australia
Tel: +61 (0) 3 9036 2181
ad...@evok3d.com.au
www.evok3d.com.au

> . .. .
> Change USB Interface to BULK (UsbInterface=2) . .. . Change Depth
> Input format to Compression (InputFormat=1) . .. . Change Image Input

[Skanect Noob]

Hi Nicholas,

Do you have any good news on working with Primesense to make this firmware update work with Skanect?

Thanks

[Nicolas Burrus]

Hi,

Yes, later this week we'll post a beta in the forum which should work
with the updated Carmine 1.09.

Thanks,
Nicolas

[Voudas Toast-eater]

hello. i just received my 1.09 carmine (2 days ago) to use it with skanect pro. first impression is good, much better than kinect i used before.

the question is whether there is a way to check if it has the new firmware or not.

if not should i do it? is there any real life improvement on the scan quality? or the gains have nothing to do on how scanect works? as i only need it for scanect. cause i read about various problems.

thanks!

[Nicolas Burrus]

Hi,

The firmware update solves some USB3 issues, but if it works, I would
recommend not touching it :)

It also enables manual color gain control, which will be part of the
next Skanect beta. So you may want to update later on.

[Voudas Toast-eater]

ty very much for your reply, sounds like a very good plan :)

[RANDOMBIT]

Hello Nicholas,

I have downloaded the current Beta Skanect 1.6 build from http://skanect.manctl.com/files/skanect-1.6/Skanect-1.6.0beta2-win64.exe.

As of 29th Nov, It does not seem to support the manual color gain control, which is something I am very interested in. Is there some setting required in scan_config.ini?

I am currently on the older firmware, I wanted to verify the functionality in Skanect before I update.

Thanks a lot for the great work.
Abhishek

[Abhishek Kumar]

Nicholas,

I have updated the firmware on one of the Carmine 1.09. Still the functionality for configurable color gain and brightness controls are not available for the RGB stream. Looking forward to the instructions on enabling it, or the next beta build which might have this functionality.

Thanks!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Skanect" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/skanect/5I-TNtS5JD4/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to skanect+u...@googlegroups.com.

[Nicolas Burrus]

Hi,

This feature will be available on the next beta, which is almost
ready. Stay tuned!

Thanks
Nicolas

[Adrian]

Does anyone still has the firmware upgrade for Carmine 1.09. Primesense seems to have removed it after got acquired by Apple...Arghhhhh....

[Oliver]

Grabbed the link from my download history, still seems to be up - http://www.primesense.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/FWUpdate_RD109-112_5.9.2.zip

[Adrian]

Got it! Thanks so much!

[Brendan Coyle]

link doesn't work anymore, anyone got the update to share?

also how do you know what version firmware your carmine is running?

// I just plugged in my 1.09 and it isn't recognized on my RMBP w/Windows 7. Seems to work fine with OSx on my macbook air

thanks

[Pat Mc]

I wouldn't recommend messing with your Carmine firmware.  I made the mistake of using the latest version that someone posted here previously... and it scrambled the existing firmware instead.  I tried again, but since the firmware was scrambled, my system didn't even recognize it as a device anymore.  I now have a $200 paperweight.  Since PrimeSense doesn't respond to support requests now (probably since being acquired by Apple)... I'm guessing there won't be any additional support for it.

Anyone have any better recommendations?  Is Asus Xtion supported any more?  I would prefer that one over a Kinect, as it does not require a separate power source like the Kinect does.  Occipital is pimping the hell out of their Structure scanner... but it's not even available yet.  Very frustrated right now as I'm completely dead in the water.

[Brendan Coyle]

Hmm, thanks for the comment. All I know is that I can't seem to get my Carmine 1.09 to be recognized on my RMBP w/Windows 7. But it works ok on my Macbook Air w/osx (although it sometimes takes a few plug ins & out before it works.)

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Skanect" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/skanect/5I-TNtS5JD4/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to skanect+u...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[SubdivideMesh]

I use the 3D Systems Sense scanner with Skanect since it's more wieldy than a kinect or Xtion, it looks more professional than a kinect, it has a built in tripod mount, and it uses the Carmine 1.09 sensor. Only downsides are the price, which is $399 new, and the customer support is horrible.