What should we buy?

[Simon Green]

Hi all,

Our accounts and tax liability for the year were reviewed yesterday by the accountant (as per https://groups.google.com/d/msg/reading-hackspace/7pxuhjvYZnE/uiwZdaJdAAAJ) and, amongst a smattering of smaller tweaks/changes required, the largest by far recommendation was to do with corp tax.

As things stand we will have a corp tax bill of ~£2k to pay however we can wipe that out entirely if we spend ~£7k on assets before 31st May.

Therefore, accountants recommendation is that we should spend some money.

The wiki links to our wishlist here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UiUeBFgqfHafQ9-0hRhrP9vShZ6B5jK9FSziFmBU5I0/edit

Please discuss! 

Simon

(And no Ryan, I don't think we should buy a Twizzy)

[Alex Gibson]

Have just added two items: 

 

-Boxford VMC software update

-Water jet cutter

 

3D printer and scanner wise, I think we could update the choices on the wish list for better value for money, would be happy to advise if called to.  I could offer some more exciting options directly, but have an obvious conflict of interest J

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[Gavin]

I propose we buy a reflow oven:

- it would increase our surface mount soldering capabilities (some components can only be reliably soldered with an oven) and significantly increase the speed and ease with which boards can be assembled. Fits well with aims of Hackspace (promoting STEM) and other activities (e.g. Board Stupid, FPGA workshops, Hardware Hacking).

- prices start at £150, though previous research suggests that a half-good one costs about £300-£400

- Operating costs would be negligible - no consumables, just energy.

- There seems to be a competitive market on eBay. It could be purchased via the Hackspace eBay account.

- I believe there is space in the upstairs room for it (e.g. where the reflow oven was previously), or in place of one of the scopes, or perhaps even the printer, which is currently rarely used. Some safety signs would be required to warn members of the potential for it to get hot. Also a mat to place hot boards on?

We also need to replenish a few tools for the upstairs room including sprung board holder, wire strippers and the like - I can pull together a list later, but will not come to that much

[Gavin]

I think a turn-up-and-go 3d printer, which produced high quality prints without lots of careful calibration / finger-crossing, would be good. But would also need a commitment from someone to maintain I think,

[Jeremy Poulter]

I would second the reflow oven, it could also be worth getting a non -kit 3D printer that is a lot easier to use, eg with auto bed leveling. for example. 

Would it also make sense to get a new laser tube for the big laser and preemptively replace? 

I would also like to see a decent mixed mode scope (ie scope and logic analyser) and a thermal camera.

... but then again for that amount we should maybe consider something bigger like a CNC lathe or larger CNC mill?

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[Fe]

I know I'm not a member yet, but how about something to help get wheelchair users up and down the stairs? (Completely selfish I know :P ) 

[gavi...@gmail.com]

+1 scope with logic analyser

 

• Cheap PC for laser cutter
• Any tools require to better maintain the laser cutter?
• A flatter bed for the laser cutter
• Any hardware required to stabilise the IT infrs / sort out mess in cupboard?

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[gavi...@gmail.com]

Better marking of keep clear areas in workshop at bottom of stairs and around fire exit – small beer but whilst we’re at it.....

[Mark Robson]

+1 for more reliable / better quality 3d printer.

Mark

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[Toby Williams]

What's the process for buying things? I'm assuming that the directors would like people to volunteer to get things done once agreed.

Does one spend the cash and then bring the receipt for reimbursement?

Personally, I believe that it would be beneficial to:
1. New small form factor laser cutter pc. (zotac zbox attached to back of monitor?)
2. Buying tools off people that have long term loans to the hackspace.
3. New kitchen cabinets/fridge for the communal area.
4. Get the front door and associated windows updated.

[Richard Ibbotson]

My thoughts,

 

First, I assume the things like the paying off director’s loans, insurance, and the gas cut off are accounted for already. On the insurance, this is due at the end of the month. If the existing directors or new directors wish to alter and increase the insurance, they must do so quickly.

 

Priority for me is Fire Safety. Despite promises, the fire extinguishers are not tested and replaced. It would seem sensible to even pay for a proper external risk assessment and extinguisher installation. This would reduce risk for members and the new directors.

 

I would address building and infrastructure improvements to make the whole space more inviting, usable and pleasant, there are already good proposals for this:

• Great Lake
• Kitchen cabinets/fridge
• Front door and windows
• Exterior paintwork
• Toilet improvements
• Better access for people with disabilities
• Electrical safety
• Better lighting.

If these are not going to happen by members doing them, then maybe we should pay.

If we are to make investments in the building, we should discuss with landlord, who pays for what, and maybe change the terms of the lease to give us longer tenure.

 

I’m positive towards improvements and fixes on big Laser cutter, new PC, Aiming laser, z probe, bed improvements, but concerned it might become a license to hack, like the Shapeoko and 3D Printer.

 

Finally, I would like to see a decent capability commercial 3D printer installed, though like others would need to understand how this might be managed.

 

Richard

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[Ian Petrie]

I have a proposal for improvements downstairs which I have been holding on to until the director elections are out of the way.

I'll put it on another thread.

Ian

On Saturday, 1 April 2017 10:51:35 UTC+1, Simon Green wrote:

[Richard Ibbotson]

Hi Ian, sort of surprised by this.
Your manifesto suggested groups would be set up to make proposals like this.
Is there a group we don't know about already existing or is this a solo proposal?

Richard

[Ian Petrie]

It is something I wrote before the "Change of Guard" was initiated. I just publish it now as it is relevant to the spend money thread.

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[Alex Gibson]

3D printer…

 

For a straight 3D printer purchase, I can advise (for free, not for-profit).  Good local 3D printer shops exist, would recommend we talk to Creat3d in Woodley.

 

OR:

 

*commercial sales pitch*

 

I can offer from my business a fully supported 3D printing package.

This consists of:

1)            a PAIR OF 3D printers

2)            a formal contract for support and high availability SLA, and

3)            regular scheduled training.

 

This would be at a commercial rate, not bargain basement, but would ensure a good quality, sustainable 3D printing resource at rLab.  I would be highly motivated to ensure its success, as a pilot for my school 3D printer lease solution.

 

*end sales pitch*

 

Also, to remind everyone, our stalwart RepRap 3D printer is still 100% operational and has been ever since I refurbished it nearly 2 years ago!  We can do better in terms of quality and immediate usability, but there’s nowt broken about our current resource – so please can everyone continue to treat it/discuss it as a working machine, I am happy to continue to support it and have got back into running inductions more regularly! 

 

Cheers

 

Alex Gibson

 

+44 7813 810 765    @alexgibson3d    37 Royal Avenue, Reading RG31 4UR

 

admg consulting

 

·         Project management

·         Operations & Process improvement

·         3D Printing

[Mark Robson]

Alex,

The current Reprap may be technically working, but:

* It is a right faff to make it work - the bed levelling is a chore. it has no auto-levelling and the Z endstop is never in the correct place.

* The quality is poor - I have real trouble getting it extruding correctly; the X and Y axis don't seem well calibrated (maybe good enough for some jobs though)

* It is difficult to change the filament with the long bowden

* We don't maintain a stock of useful filament

* The instructions are out of date

* It is slow

These things will tend to discourage the use of the Reprap, it's technically working but takes a long time to make poor quality prints.

For the level of usage I would expect, I think a small reliable commercial machine, even if it's not a fancy one, would probably be a lot better. I don't know any specifics, but I am sure that any commercial printer would be easier to use.

Mark

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[Simon Green]

These are good suggestions so far. We specifically want to be spending money on assets, something that will go on the balance sheet and depreciate. To help clarify what would fit that criteria, it's things you could feasibly get from a shop on credit. Repairs could technically work as well, but we'd need the invoice before May 31.

We also need to agree on a mechanism by which we decide!

Simon

[Alex Gibson]

Hi Mark,

 

I do totally agree with you that we could get a lot more use out of a rigid-framed, faster and higher quality printer.

 

Until then:

 

1)      I would be pleased to include you on the next RepRap induction, as some of the issues you’ve expressed now and before are typical of the original design of this printer, and there are easy solutions. 

2)      We’ve got a ton of really high quality Faberdashery filament in the drawers beneath it.

3)      I’m thinking about swapping it back from Bowden to direct extrusion as a result of your feedback and my notes from the last induction – would you consider that worthwhile?

 

Cheers

Alex

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[Alex Gibson]

I noticed on the wish list google doc a 'mikethebee weighting score'.

What's that? Does anyone already have a proposed methodology for making a group decision in stuff like this?

Should we set an earlier deadline to agree the spend, to allow time to actually do the work, and even consider pencilling in a meeting at that time in case we have not already come to a satisfactory decision?

Cheers
Alex

Tapped on my mobile phone.

[Mark Robson]

Alex, I'm not sure that the problems with the Reprap are really solvable - at least, they could be made better but never go away completely. While I preferred the direct drive extruder, that is just one of the issues and having a more "plug and play" machine would definitely go along way to improving things all around.

Last time I looked in the log book, I was almost the only user, it's not clear whether that's because the other users didn't record their use, nobody else wanted to use it, or it was too crap/difficult to be useful.

Mark

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[gavi...@gmail.com]

We have 3 months to get invoices in, and we have managed the selection of new directors in less time, so whilst we should press on with it, there's no need to panic and make rash decisions.

 

I think all of Richard’s ideas are good ones – and a welcome, sobering reminder of where priorities should lie. we should do them, but do the meet the capital investment criteria? (and also, are some of these for Tom?) I think we can probably afford to do them over time (giving H&S a priority) from our monthly surplus – we just need to get our act together.

 

I think the Mike’s weighting column is just that – an expression of Mike’s preferences.

 

 

From: Simon Green
Sent: 01 April 2017 19:07
To: Reading Hackspace

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[mikethebee]

Re: my column, yes it was my suggestion (some years ago) that the wishlist have a scoring mechanism for members. Now we have loads of money and loads of members a simple column is impractical, but maybe someone can build a better app. 

I haven't seen mentioned the idea of buying a spare lasercutter tube for each of the LC's. It would be a forward investment in the Piranha and a sale bonus for the original one. Only £500 but maybe worthwhile. 

-MikeTheBee

On Saturday, 1 April 2017 20:08:48 UTC+1, Gavin wrote:

......

[Eric Rowen]

From my experience of 3D printers and skimming through this thread I think that buying a commercial "plug-and-play" 3D printer and getting high quality prints etc. would lead as suggested to the printer being hacked, or as new and better cheaper printers arrive every day then a continuous swapping out for new exercise.

No bad thing to continuously hack to improve except what is the function of the printer?  A fun thing to change/modify/improve/re-adjust/calibrate OR  a workhorse that those with limited experience of continuous tinkering just want to work?  

As soon as it's hacked then instructions have to be re-written, procedures changed, stock of spare parts required revised etc. etc. Often the people who like to mod things have no interest in documentation. End result, no knows exactly how it works or why it does not work.

To prevent the tinkering/hacking Alex's solution fits perfectly, specification agreed in advance, maintenance covered by contract, and importantly a Service Level Agreement (SLA).  Time to fix agreed, upgrades every x months agreed, replacement after y years all agreed in advance.  If you want particular accuracy and other features then get this up front, if you want it improved then consult the contract, if you no longer want the facility end the contract. 

Either have a fixed term or rolling contract, if Alex is able to provide either of these.

I know you could just go to a 3D print shop instead, but the rLab facility is available to any member any time.

It all depends on why you need a 3D printer and how many people will use the machines obtained under contract.

PS  I have no commercial interest in Alex's business !  :-) 

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[dz]

http://www.shopbottools.com/mProducts/prSalpha.htm

[Norro]

With respect I think most of the problems with the 3d printer are user error and will exist to some extent with a better one. IMHO the bowden is perfectly fine, it is barely different from a normal extruder and I had zero problems with bed levelling.  That said I think it would be a good idea to get something better although hopefully not too proprietary.

A proper 3d scanner might also be of great use.

Also how about a vive or oculus since a lot of us don't have the space for one at home and would be good for augmented reality, VR projects.

I second the PPE/Fire extinguishers, it's boring but it is important.

Finally, gift/loan some to help us start Basingstoke Makerspace since it is along the same objectives and we need to get over the startup/deposit hump :P

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[David Price]

Agree that first priority should be Fire extinguishers, blankets and other H&S such as light control/emergency lighting for the back stairs

Next, fix the big cutter - PC, aiming laser.

Consider replacing the small laser with one having an A3 work area (£1600?)

If 3D Printer then I recommend an Ultimaker 2+ @ £2k, it is well proven, has good software (Cura), good community and they are very supportive of open source, but realise that the issue will remain user error no matter how easy it is to level etc. It is an expensive tool, hacking should be off limits. If people want to hack a 3D printer then there are really cheap ones available via ebay.

3d Scanner - use a Kinect (S/H £20) with reconstructme or look at Sense 3D @ £430 as a general facility or Scanify + advanced software @ £1k based one for higher resolution/small volume. You'll need a powerful PC/laptop to use any of these.

Both printer and scanners are available from Creat3d at Shepherds Hill.

David

On Saturday, 1 April 2017 10:51:35 UTC+1, Simon Green wrote:

[Malcolm Napier]

When is the deadline by which the money has to be spent?

There is a lot of stuff to be unpicked and priortised across at least 4 categories (essential H&S, building/infrastructure, maintenance/support/upgrade of existing tools & new tools). If we can, I would prefer a structured approach that allows the new guard to assume their roles and guide the process.

One plea that I would make is for a clear distinction between tools (lathe, large laser cutter, etc.) and projects (shapeoko, Denford Mill, etc.)  There should be a clear expectation that tools are normally available for use by any suitably trained members - except when being maintained. And there needs to be a clear route back into service for anything classified as a tool (be that via members who are prepared to provide a "service level", as say Ryan did with the laser, or via commercial suppot contracts).

Projects will need to justify their use of space over time.

In my opinion, the current 3d printer (which I dontated on behalf of TVRRUG) currently sits somewhwere near the dividing line between these two categories because of the preparation (bed levelling, etc.) required by people who are trained but only use the system occasionally. I support its replacement with something more modern so that it can be moved into the category of tools. Once a replacement is sorted, I request that the current printer is returned to TVRRUG - in the form of Alex and/or me - to find an alternative home or break down for the components to be re-used. 

However, as a an occasional user of the Pirahna, it seems to be moving towards that boundary as well. For example, bed levelling is no longer automatic.

So I think that, much as I like new toys, my main priorities are H&S, maximising our use of the space and then spending money on sorting out that which we already have but we need to work better in order for more members to use. 

[Simon Green]

On Sunday, 2 April 2017 13:23:58 UTC+1, Malcolm Napier wrote:

When is the deadline by which the money has to be spent?

I need the invoices in before May 31st.

There is a lot of stuff to be unpicked and priortised across at least 4 categories (essential H&S, building/infrastructure, maintenance/support/upgrade of existing tools & new tools). If we can, I would prefer a structured approach that allows the new guard to assume their roles and guide the process.

Perhaps we should gather ideas via the mailing list, prioritise the obvious (H&S), then poll for the priority on the rest somehow. (ie number of members who would use)

 

One plea that I would make is for a clear distinction between tools (lathe, large laser cutter, etc.) and projects (shapeoko, Denford Mill, etc.)

This has to be things I'd put on the balance sheets, therefore projects don't count. (Difficult to justify a book & market value, and even harder to depreciate). Really, this has to be off-the-shelf items.

Simon

[Gavin]

With relevant excerpt from separate thread on how, in the longer term, we should decide what to spend, money:

I think discussion about what we might buy could drag on if we are not clear about how we’d go about it, and precisely what the costs / maintenance implications are. I think we need to crispen this up a bit. In the interests of aiding prioritisation and closing out discussions in a timely fashion,I;d encourage people who are proposing investments here to address the five main points in the Bids section below.

Bids

There are plenty of different models that could be used for framing bids. In Govt, it is common for a ‘five case’ model to be used where the following is set out:

- why we should do it and how it would further the hackspace

- an assessment of the value for money for the membership (incl. a sense of likely frequency of use / advantages over doing it a different way)

- details on who / how we would spend the money

- how it would be managed on an ongoing basis, including space management, maintenance etc.

- details of the costs including running costs /maintenance

[Norro]

Maybe we could get some kind of lift to make upstairs more accessible?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-Stannah-Self-Supporting-Passenger-Lift-Stair-Lift-Wheelchair-Lift/252836502664

[Fe]

Though that would probably be one of the better options for increasing access, lifts do generally take up a chunk of room on both floors, just something to keep in mind. :) The lift would probably be the easiest option for wheelchair users to use (and for getting heavier stuff up the stairs :P ). The other options would be some form of stair lift (there are ones that allow wheelchairs to just wheel on), but I think the one set of stairs would be too narrow and I can't remember how the other stairs are attached, or some form of stair climber which would require someone else helping the person up and down the stairs (some of these are awkward to use and would need to be stored). Alternatively a hoist could be fitted but you'd need to have some daredevil wheelchair users join :P I really appreciate people thinking of access, most places don't bother, so thank you :)

[Tom Allen]

Proposal. Allenway ltd can offer a 1% discount on any rent paid in advance. That could be a totally legal way to avoid any remaining tax liability for this year, whilst Allenway would pay the same as it would anyway.

Then next year if all members of hackspace become company members the tax issue will be different.

Thoughts?

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[Simon Green]

On Wednesday, 5 April 2017 02:44:44 UTC+1, Tom Allen wrote:

Allenway ltd can offer a 1% discount on any rent paid in advance.

Thanks for the offer Tom. Unfortunately, that would go into prepayments control on the balance sheet, not into P&L 16/17, so wouldn't help with the tax liability.

Simon

[Tom Allen]

DISCLAIMER: discussions of tax avoidance can upset people morally, me
included... but nothing I suggest is illegal in any way and only
learnt from studying the tax avoidance of bigger companies. I do not
do any kind of advanced avoidance in my affairs (just claim actual
expenses etc), but for a not for profit community benefit company it
has _some_ more possibility of being moral to avoid some tax (as we
are doing by even deciding to spend money before the year end when we
where not previously)

As to the rent suggestion, well that all depends on how you word it
(which i should have been clearer on). you can book a single six month
block of rent at the day it starts if that is how it's sold to you
(otherwise you would have to book every ongoing agreement daily [or
hourly lol]), but as you said, six units of one month must be booked
six times at the start of each block. If anyone is un-comfortable with
this then please ignore it. but I get this idea from reading about the
tax affairs of even big business like HMRC itself which leases it's
offices through way more complex arrangements to avoid tax legally.

The only reason corp tax is a problem now is because it seems the
directors intend to book the monthly monies as sales of a service. The
other suggestion I would have in regard to that is that the minimum
amount to buy the service of hackspace access is actually £1 a month
as defined by Ryans "as long as you pay monthly your a member"
principle. That therefore makes the rest of any money received a grey
area as to what type of income it is. RMS never bills anyone or asks
for £25 a month, it is always a suggestion. I don't know enough about
how that could be billed but suspect that it could be booked in a none
taxable way already (less the £1 minimum we do ask for)

In future I would like to see members be company members for a great
number of reasons, then this corp tax issue all goes away and everyone
can have the nice feeling they actually own a bit of the hackspace too
:)

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[Tony Short]

Simon, Just to clarify, does the spending have to be solely on assets, and if so, what are we defining as assets?

For example if we spruce up the kitchen / bathrooms / frontage is that applicable?

T

[Simon Green]

Those things are all viable. It's anything that can be attributed as an overhead of cost-of-sale in the p&l before end May. The best things are assets which we can depreciate as this keeps the value in the balance sheet as long as possible.

Some viable things that stand out to me:

Refurb of frontage, kitchen, lobby, stairs
Perspex and other material stock for resale
H&S equipment
Any tools worth more than about £50 (ie its material so we'd track the asset value)
Repairs/refurb of existing tools like the piranha laser.
Computers/network/screen etc

Simon

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[Norro]

Who is deciding and pulling the trigger on this?  If we get the fire/ppe + an ultimaker its only going to take 1 more big thing really to spend enough isn't it?

Wasn't there talk of reversing the front door to avoid the puddle? Can we spend money on that?

As far as morality goes, we should be a mutual club and not paying any tax. It is only through inexperience that we ended up needing to pay some, so personally I don't see any problem in trying to avoid not paying what we wern't ever supposed to pay; so long as it is legal. :)

[Ryan .]

Are there any restrictions on where we should buy from? eBay sellers OK etc?

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[Simon Green]

On 2017-04-06 09:57, Ryan . wrote:
> Are there any restrictions on where we should buy from? eBay sellers
> OK etc?

No restrictions, eBay is fine. Ideally first hand if possible.

Simon

[Tom Allen]

just a reminder here that panic buying to avoid tax is in general a
bad idea and could end up being a inefficient use of members hard
earned contributions. remember the target here isn't to spend all of
it at any cost. but maybe to accelerate purchases we would have made
anyway. maybe it's better we buy a crap ton of stock ( and maybe store
off site ) than rush into big ticket items without proper process to
show demand. For example buying a three grand 3d printer may look
cool, but if only 10% of members use it, it's not really in the
membership at larges interest is it?

more radical options could even include refunding every member a few
months of what the contributed. we need to remember This isn't free
money we can spend willy nilly, this is our money we have paid
monthly.

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[Ian Petrie]

I agree about the refund option. I don't see that as radical. This is not "our" money. It is members contributions.

> email to reading-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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[Ryan .]

I don't think anyone's planning on panic buying, we've got more than 7 weeks to buy (and take delivery and be invoiced) and we're going through a discussion process right now. Who's in a panic?

I'm not stoked on the refund option, I think the money should be spent on making the space better, that's what it's for in the first place. If we CAN'T do that, sure, fair enough, but I think we can. 

R

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Tom Allen <t...@randominter.net> wrote:

> email to reading-hackspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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+44 7939 025 131

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[Norro]

I think if you are at all thinking of refunds then don't and instead give it to other local hackspaces starting out.  I said it as a jokey option above but actually we are reaching the limits of capacity that this space can sustain, we've seen bigger go wrong at Nottingham/London and the other way to expand is branching out.  That is happening naturally but these starting spaces are struggling to grow and to get over the early financial humps.  Reducing subs here undermines them asking for the 'standard' £25. I know for a fact when we were trying to start rlab it sucked that London were sat on a fat wedge of cash that could have helped more.  A lot of people have put money into this because they believe in the idea and aims, and so why not continue that by helping where it is most needed?

I don't think we are even at that stage though.  There are a lot of suggestions above that have been discounted by some as frivolous, I certainly don't see getting a proper functioning 3D printer and/or cnc machine any more so than a lathe. (Do more than 10% use that?) We set out to give access to tools so lets do so. Lets make these our top priority below H&S

Also stuff like 3d scanning/VR might seem like a toy but thats the kind of stuff where creative ideas are going to come from. There are a lot of ways it can be used to increase inclusion and accessibility for remote or disabled people. Plus it IS a cool tech to inspire people's imagination.

[Keegan Neave]

I'd have no problem helping other spaces out, I don't use the space as often as I'd like to but I've no problem paying my subs as I know it's supporting a great cause.  I see my membership fee as paying in to an idea rather than giving me access if that makes sense.

Making the space more inclusive and welcoming is a great idea though too, I'll apologise that I can't recall the name but someone mentioned issues with accessibility earlier in the thread and as we are in a position to do something about it, both as we have the cash and a landlord that encourages us to hack all the things I think it would be worth looking at.

Facilities after that, health and safety is the obvious choice, but we could always use some of the surplus to stock the vending machine with components.  It's been sat there feeling sorry for itself for an age and I know if I had somewhere I could go at all hours to buy a Pi, couple of Arduinos and other odds and sods I'd be there in a shot!

---

From: reading-...@googlegroups.com <reading-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Norro <st...@tuuk.co.uk>
Sent: 06 April 2017 13:00
To: Reading Hackspace
Subject: Re: [RDG-Hack] Re: What should we buy?

 

[Alex Gibson]

Hi Keegan,

 

Just by saying that, you brought the time it will be up and vending again closer… trust me, it will happen!!!

 

Cheers

Alex

[Tom Allen]

If there was stock of bigger components like arduinos pis ws2812 leds strips esp8266  batteries and enclosures etc i would have used that a lot in the past.

Even if the vend machine isnt ready i think it would work if stuff was well labelled.

On 7 Apr 2017 12:15 am, "Alex Gibson" <al...@alexgibson.net> wrote:

Hi Keegan,

 

Just by saying that, you brought the time it will be up and vending again closer… trust me, it will happen!!!

 

Cheers

Alex

 

From: reading-hackspace@googlegroups.com [mailto:reading-hackspace@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Keegan Neave
Sent: 06 April 2017 14:33
To: Reading Hackspace
Subject: Re: [RDG-Hack] Re: What should we buy?

 

I'd have no problem helping other spaces out, I don't use the space as often as I'd like to but I've no problem paying my subs as I know it's supporting a great cause.  I see my membership fee as paying in to an idea rather than giving me access if that makes sense.

 

Making the space more inclusive and welcoming is a great idea though too, I'll apologise that I can't recall the name but someone mentioned issues with accessibility earlier in the thread and as we are in a position to do something about it, both as we have the cash and a landlord that encourages us to hack all the things I think it would be worth looking at.

Facilities after that, health and safety is the obvious choice, but we could always use some of the surplus to stock the vending machine with components.  It's been sat there feeling sorry for itself for an age and I know if I had somewhere I could go at all hours to buy a Pi, couple of Arduinos and other odds and sods I'd be there in a shot!

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[Robert Rundle]

All,

Just to add my small bit in. I know I am not at the workspace that much, but in consideration of purchases. I think that any items that are purchased should be to make the space more accessible. I mean this in terms of equipment and software. Consideration should be given for equipment that is standardised. It shouldn't be copied machinery, with nuances that only regular users are aware of, or with chinese reproduction software. It also shouldn't be there to be hacked about with, as somebody said previously, each time it gets hacked it changes the instructions and invariably only a few people know about it. 

One of the biggest barriers to using the space is that I dont use tools and equipment enough to be fully familiar with it. But I would like to be able to turn up at the space and use something, without having to ask somebody each time, I cant get it to work. Making the equipment more usable and accessible will also help membership develop. 

I do like Alex's suggestion of a service providing placing equipment with support contracts, as this will keep equipment maintained and usable.

But if there is one thing I would like to see available, it would be a water jet cutter, but not a cheap knock-off or second hand piece of kit that requires several bits of translation software to get my design cut.

Thanks

Rob

[Richard Ibbotson]

Can we break this thread out into separate topic areas? It is getting complicated.

[Tara Martel]

Personally I would like to see a commercial type 3D printer I can just turn up and use, in much the same way as the Pirahna. Maybe an upgraded version of the boxford too?

[Toby Williams]

Lots of input in this thread, do the directors have enough information to make a call or would they like any more specific thoughts from the community?

[Richard Ibbotson]

There appears to be some fumbling on the handover, such that the new directors will not be appointed in time for this

I consider that the new elected leaders of RLab, now have the mandate to solicit input, decide and approve what expenditure we make. The directors, new, existing, whatever, should then facilitate their requests.
I see no reason to delay the improvement of communication between our new leaders, and between the new leaders and the members, if the existing directors are not available.

Take the lead guys.

[Simon Green]

It's useful so far, but specifics would be helpful.

Eg Manufacturer, model, cost, supplier.

Simon

On 9 April 2017 15:05:18 BST, 'Toby Williams' via Reading Hackspace <reading-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Lots of input in this thread, do the directors have enough information to make a call or would they like any more specific thoughts from the community? 

[Tara Martel]

Perhaps we need a Procurement Officer?

Someone to tabulate the demands, source them and then put a completed list in front of the directors.

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Simon Green <si...@sjg.io> wrote:

It's useful so far, but specifics would be helpful.

Eg Manufacturer, model, cost, supplier.

Simon

On 9 April 2017 15:05:18 BST, 'Toby Williams' via Reading Hackspace <reading-hackspace@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Lots of input in this thread, do the directors have enough information to make a call or would they like any more specific thoughts from the community? 

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[Ian Petrie]

Please would members take "Ownership" - i.e. become their own "Procurement Officer" - for each item proposed for purchase.

See the Ownership Thread

Items needing "owners" ( not a definitive list, just stuff that has been suggested)

Fire safety evaluation and extinguishers

Hardware hacking proposals

Comprehensive hand tools for both up and down stairs

The Great Lake

Door and windows upgrade ( double glazed?)

The sign

Floor finish downstairs

Rewiring ( I've taken that on )

The helipad.

3D printer

Water jet cutter

Large format CNC router. plasma cutter bed.

Loans or grants to other spaces.

Ownership doesn't mean that you make decisions for the membership - but that you act as a focus for member inputs.

The discussion you moderate needs pulling together into a document to "sell" the proposal to members and directors.

It must include costing details, supplier, arrangements for maintenance, who is going to be responsible for the item if purchased.

I feel there is a degree of urgency and a real danger of making poorly researched purchases if nobody steps up to take on the basic research.

Ian

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[gavi...@gmail.com]

I'll take Hardware Hacking

 

From: Ian Petrie
Sent: 10 April 2017 11:42
To: Reading Hackspace

On 9 April 2017 15:05:18 BST, 'Toby Williams' via Reading Hackspace <reading-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Lots of input in this thread, do the directors have enough information to make a call or would they like any more specific thoughts from the community? 

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[Tara Martel]

The Great Lake for me please.

On 9 April 2017 15:05:18 BST, 'Toby Williams' via Reading Hackspace <reading-hackspace@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Lots of input in this thread, do the directors have enough information to make a call or would they like any more specific thoughts from the community? 

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[Alex Gibson]

I can take water jet cutter.  

I could take 3D printer, and can make an impartial recommendation for a straight purchase - but I have also proposed a managed solution from my business, so I am conflicted.  I suggest I could work with someone else on that.

[Ian Petrie]

Please can you each start a new thread to hold discussion on the purchases you are taking charge of.

[Ian Petrie]

Alex

You could start a thread for water jet

and

a thread for your own 3D printer proposal.

Probably let someone else start a thread for other 3D printers

[Norro]

I think there is a feeling that we need more support than a 1 man business can provide.

Personally I like an Ultimaker or something more industrial. But I don't know any specific brands or models.

I would avoid Makerbot on principal since they have taken advantage of community input in the past, which is not really inline with the spirit of the hackspace.

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[Alex Gibson]

Would you like a description of the support model on offer?

[Alex Gibson]

OK Will do

--

[Ian Petrie]

Please please please

Break out new threads for discussion of specific items to purchase.

and please could we have a volunteer to take ownership of each item.

[Norro]

Have we had any authorisation to go ahead and buy any of the discussed items?  It is getting awfully close to the last minute.

On Saturday, 1 April 2017 10:51:35 UTC+1, Simon Green wrote:

Hi all,

Our accounts and tax liability for the year were reviewed yesterday by the accountant (as per https://groups.google.com/d/msg/reading-hackspace/7pxuhjvYZnE/uiwZdaJdAAAJ) and, amongst a smattering of smaller tweaks/changes required, the largest by far recommendation was to do with corp tax.

As things stand we will have a corp tax bill of ~£2k to pay however we can wipe that out entirely if we spend ~£7k on assets before 31st May.

Therefore, accountants recommendation is that we should spend some money.

The wiki links to our wishlist here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UiUeBFgqfHafQ9-0hRhrP9vShZ6B5jK9FSziFmBU5I0/edit

Please discuss! 

Simon

(And no Ryan, I don't think we should buy a Twizzy)