Ram sizing help

[Maeve Gately]

Hey everybody,

I've been searching for a Homer or similar, in the 51 range (5' 6", PBH  about 80) and came across a 50 Rambouillet. I can't tell from the size charts online if it would be around my size, or if they were made much smaller than the current Riv models (one size chart I found makes it seem like I'm a 56 in the Ram). 

Anyone have any guidance here?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I am 79.5 PBH and I rode the 54 Ram.  I think the 56 would be too big for you. 50 seems small, but a 52 would likely work but had 26" wheels? I think the best Ram is a 650b (700c converted) Ram.

Toshi in Oakland

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[Maeve Gately]

Thanks that’s helpful! 

On Apr 10, 2025, at 1:41 PM, Toshi Takeuchi <tto...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Joe Bernard]

I'm similar height to you both, rode a 54 Ram and 55 Romulus comfortably with dropbars. If you want Albas or similar you're going to need a 56 but your standover will be nil and the seat will be slammed. 

[Maeve Gately]

Hmm ok. Seems like the 50 would be too small for me then

[George Schick]

I would advise a word of caution here.  I'm 5' 9" (well, I used to be - I've lost an inch as I've aged) and I ride a 54cm Ram.  I also have an old rebuilt Fuji from the early 70's in "21 inch" size.  Both work well for me in stand-over height. BUT (and it's a big but), early-on in the "bike boom" 70's several bike shop owners talked me into a bike with a 23" frame (metric sizes were not popular back then) and all of them were miserable. I had to buy a much shorter stem for the bars and I couldn't stand over the top tube without being tippy-toed, something that could've been hazardous in certain situations.  All of the bike shop owners who sold me those bikes advised that I'd need the next larger size frame, therefore the 23", in order to "stretch-out" more.  Nothing could've been further from the truth.

Worse yet, over the years Grant & Co. seem to have advised accordingly.  But the big, big, BIG thing they're ignoring, overlooking, whatever are individual differences!!  Yes, I'm (was) 5'9", but my legs are disproportionately shorter than my torso, therefore standing over a 54cm frame is much, much better than just a reference to my total height!  We're not all the same proportionately to our height and I don't understand why Riv keeps referring customers to ever higher frames based entirely on their total height, ignoring their bodily proportions.

[Ryan]

But isn't that the point of the PBH measurement that Rivendell advises you make...?

[George Schick]

Yeah, sort of.  But if you check the sizing chart at : http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/geometry.html for the Ram you'll see that it varies all over the place for wheel size, tire size, etc.  So...how you gonna decide base on all of that info?  Should she buy a 50 cm. based on those numbers with a 650b tire size, as they mention, or not?  And if not, which wheel/tire size should she buy?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Well, here's a picture of my former 650b Ram.  I'm not sure I have 2 cm of seat post to go with a 56 cm, and if you dropped it to a 50 cm and wanted to keep the bars level to saddle, then you'd probably have to go to a dirt drop stem to extend it up high.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/42771204@N00/8176967200

Toshi

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[George Schick]

+1 !!

[Ken Mattina]

I'm 5'6" with a 79cm PBH and a 69.5 saddle height. I thought the 54cm Rambouillet was a perfect fit.

Ken

On Thu, Apr 10, 2025 at 10:09 AM Maeve Gately <maeve....@gmail.com> wrote:

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[george schick]

So, therefore...ain't you just the perfect fit for just exactly what I was talking about - individual differences? Never mind just this Riv SOH because they want to force you into an even higher frame size for reasons unknown, eh?.

[iamkeith]

I didn't read through all the responses, but we have a 50cm Ram in the garage.  I could take specific measurements if you want.  I suspect it's too small for you though.  My wife (her bike) is 5'-5" and I think she would have been better with a 52cm.  On the other hand, women have proportionally longer legs  and she does like the bars unusually high.

[Maeve Gately]

Thanks all! This is very helpful. 

On Apr 10, 2025, at 6:17 PM, iamkeith <keith...@gmail.com> wrote:

I didn't read through all the responses, but we have a 50cm Ram in the garage.  I could take specific measurements if you want.  I suspect it's too small for you though.  My wife (her bike) is 5'-5" and I think she would have been better with a 52cm.  On the other hand, women have proportionally longer legs  and she does like the bars unusually high.

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[Greg J]

I've owned a 56 and a 54 Ram.  I'm a little under 5-8, pbh a little under 80cm, saddle height a little under 70cm.  I could make both work, but the 54 definitely feels better to me.  For for OP, I would think 52 or 54, but 56 is probably too big.  

Greg

[Joe Bernard]

 "We're not all the same proportionately to our height and I don't understand why Riv keeps referring customers to ever higher frames based entirely on their total height, ignoring their bodily proportions."

Riv recommends frame sizes to people based on PBH, not total height. 

Joe Bernard 

[Eric Karnes]

Attached is an image from the original Ram brochure. Not sure where I came across it (maybe the cyclofiend site?), but it was helpful when I was trying to size a Ram. It gives frame size based on your PBH. In general, I have odd proportions–long legs and short torso for my height–but have always found Riv's recommendations to be spot on. Best fitting bikes I've ever owned.

Eric

[Patrick Moore]

That sizing chart accompanying the geometry chart is very useful; I say this in retrospect since I sold my (blue) 58 cm Ram over 10 years ago. But I’m 5’11” and the 58 fit me just right with an 8 cm stem and bar 3-4 cm below saddle. The size chart shows my height overlapping the 58 and the 60 and I’ve had perfectly fitting 60s (c-c) but I find many frames tall enough to be too long in the top tube. The 58 cm Ram’s 57 cm tt is just a wee bit longer than ideal — ideal = 56; the 60s at 58 would have been too long period without an abnormal stem.

I know Grant says, or used to say, that top tube length is relatively unimportant — you can raise your bar — but if you like your bar in a very particular place with respect to the saddle, that principle doesn’t work, or doesn’t work as well as a tt more proportionate to one’s build.

As to the OP’s initial request: I’m only an expert about fitting one single person to a frame, and that’s me, but my sense from years of riding bikes that fit and bikes that didn’t fit, and from the thread scuttlebutt, is that the 50 might well be too small.

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[Linda G]

I don't have any advice about the Ram, but I would suggest you consider a 50 Roadini. That is unless you really like the level top tube "old school" look. I was your height when I built up the Roadini 5 or 6 years ago, now 5'5" with a 79 PBH. I have owned many bikes and the Roadini is the first one that is really comfortable. The sloping top tube allows me to get the bars up where I want them and the drops let me change position easily. The high bars and sloping top tube gives a nice comfortable reach to the bars. There is plenty of standover height. Good luck finding a bike that works for you!

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Hi George,

I don't think the larger frame, with all other fit issues resolved, is for unknown reasons.  Well, at least one reason is that the taller frame will allow you to get the bars higher. (50 cm frame requires an extra 4 cm seatpost and 4 cm of stem compared to a 54 cm frame, allowing the bars to be 4 cm higher on the 54 cm frame).

The top tube is generally longer for the taller frame, which definitely can cause fit challenges, which can sometimes be mitigated with different stem lengths.

Toshi

[Joe Bernard]

With Ram sizing toptube is everything in 2025 when most Riv riders are using pullback bars. Rams were designed as traditional road bikes with drop or moustache bars, I would definitely choose my bar before choosing a size of Rambouillet on the used market 

[Ryan]

Which was the point I was trying and evidently failing to make

[George Schick]

I think we may be talking past each other on this thread to some extent.  Riv posts SOH for a certain wheel diameter and tire size simply as a measurement like seat tube and top tube and chain stay lengths.  Where the cyclist comes into play is with pubic bone height (PBH).  If someone has taken this measurement carefully with the assistance of a helper, it can be used in conjunction with the charts to get a good idea which frame sizes are going to work and which ones aren't.  The best comments I've seen so far have to do with top tube length.  As frame sizes increase so does top tube length, so if you select a frame size that you can just barely stand over with comfort and safety you'll wind up with a top tube that may require you to select a shorter-than-ideal stem length for your bars, which can affect handling to some extent.  OTOH, if you select a smaller frame which is comfortable for your PBH, you'll wind up with a shorter TT length that can be compensated for to some extent be selecting a longer stem.  But if someone with a arms, legs, and torso don't "fit the norm", so to speak they can wind up too scrunched up or too stretched out on the bike causing them to compensate by changing components, as mentioned above.  Sometimes that can work out well and other times is doesn't.

Now, all of this assumes that road drop bars will be used.  If a different style bar is selected for a more upright riding position that changes the entire picture.

All I was trying to say is that I've read numerous posts over the years with lamenting cyclists saying they wish they'd selected the next size smaller frame and may thus are often trying to sell the one they have now...because "the people at Riv had talked them into the larger one."  And I don't understand that.

[Joe Bernard]

Ryan, you made the point succinctly. I missed it while replyong to a thread whilst too tired to do so 🤦‍♂️

[Ryan]

no worries joe...you're a good guy

[bo richardson]

I got a 56 green ram as my first Ram when my Tanguy frame broke

after only 27 years of commuting touring racing etc. The Tanguy

had 27 inch wheels and was a 54. Fit perfect. then I got the 56 ram

because it was the only thing on the market that was close.

it worked but was 2 cm too big.

I am also 5'6" or maybe a little less and my PBH is 79. 

My blue 54 Ram is perfect in every way except I bet 650b 

wheels would be very interesting to try. tall stem 

with a short neck since I have very short arms.

my brother is a couple of inches taller and has 

the same leg length. He rides a 54 orange Ram.

.

we have an awful lot of agreement on this thread.

Bo

Bellingham

BTW the geometry of the Tanguy was virtually 

Identical to the 54 Rambouillet except 2 cm shorter chain stays.

 there was very little time or effort involved 

in  getting accustomed to the blue Ram.

[J S]

A 56cm Ram would the equivalent if my memory serves as a 52/53 Rivendell today, a 54cm, should be a 51CM if it runs like the Saluki did. I had a 56cm ram and sold it prior to assembly as I knew it would be too big. My size in a Saluki is 54cm, my size in a Hillborne is a 51cm. 

[chrisd]

I looked back at Sheldon's take on his decision to get a Ram

https://sheldonbrown.com/org/rambouillet-index.html