Sizing up on a Charlie Gallop

[Mike Gillespie]

I’m considering a Charlie purchase for this round of frames.  At 5’11” and a PBH of 86.5cm I’m in the middle of the sizing range for the 57cm and just over the lower limit for the 61cm.  After seeing the attached photo of Grant’s ride on a Blue Lug blog, I’m considering going with the 61. According to the blog post, Grant’s PBH is 85cm, and he’s actually under the lower sizing recommendation of 86cm.

From the geometry chart it appears the greatest difference between the 57 and 61 frames is increased stack height (+4.9cm) with only minor increase in reach.  The effective top tube increase is only 1cm. Meanwhile, the reach calculation shows an actual decrease of 0.7cm. (This seems counterintuitive to me and I’m thinking it’s a typo, or am I wrong)? Regardless, I’m intrigued by Grant’s setup and wonder if there’s any downside that I’m missing. Any recommendations?

[Drew Fitchette]

Hey Mike,

I recently reached out to Grant about upsizing as someone taller with a shorter pbh. I’m 6ft tall and my pbh is right around 840mm. Roman suggested a 60cm Platy when I initially reached out to riv to get insight into a good frame for me, and I reached out to Grant after seeing his on the Blue Lug visit video. 

Now a proud owner of an upsized frame I’d say the only disadvantage is space between my saddle/stem and negative space one usually uses for bags. For instance, I wouldn’t be able to use the largest sackville rear bag because it’d be crammed between my wheel and saddle. And, my banana sack in the front attaches to my head tube. Both sacrifices I don’t mind, but I can see some being annoyed by. Otherwise I’d just say some people don’t love the aesthetic of the stem and seat post proportions, but I love my set up. 

[John at Rivendell]

Get the 61cm! 

[Max Faingezicht]

For me, the 61 Gallop prototype felt long even with Albatross bars. I’m 5’11” with long legs: 90.5pbh and I wouldn’t size up again.

I think it comes down to your proportions and your preferences (handlebars, handlebar height, etc). 

You’ll be able to make either work but sizing up isn’t always the answer.

Max

On Sep 27, 2025, at 9:51 AM, John at Rivendell <jo...@rivbike.com> wrote:

Get the 61cm! 

On Friday, September 26, 2025 at 9:12:19 AM UTC-7 Mike Gillespie wrote:

I’m considering a Charlie purchase for this round of frames.  At 5’11” and a PBH of 86.5cm I’m in the middle of the sizing range for the 57cm and just over the lower limit for the 61cm.  After seeing the attached photo of Grant’s ride on a Blue Lug blog, I’m considering going with the 61. According to the blog post, Grant’s PBH is 85cm, and he’s actually under the lower sizing recommendation of 86cm.

From the geometry chart it appears the greatest difference between the 57 and 61 frames is increased stack height (+4.9cm) with only minor increase in reach.  The effective top tube increase is only 1cm. Meanwhile, the reach calculation shows an actual decrease of 0.7cm. (This seems counterintuitive to me and I’m thinking it’s a typo, or am I wrong)? Regardless, I’m intrigued by Grant’s setup and wonder if there’s any downside that I’m missing. Any recommendations?

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[Zachary Cannon]

Looking at the geometry chart, I do believe there's a couple errors. For the two smaller sizes they have the same reach with different effective top tubes and the same seat angle. As you point out the 61 is indicated as having a shorter reach, despite a longer effective top tube and the same seat tube angle. The only time you should see this variance is when there's a different seat tube angle. 

The 61 will feel like a longer reach, because you wont need to bring the stem up as high, and it will be coming back as it goes up (2mm back for every 7mms up).

Maybe enter all the numbers in this stack/reach calculator with a favorite reference bike that you own and love:

https://www.bikegeo.net/

The standover could be another trade off depending on use. I don't mind a higher standover on a road bike I only ride in stretchy cycling clothes. I would mind it on a commuter that I ride in non stretchy jeans. Also, the seatpost is one of the better places for a  bike to provide compliance since it isn't triangulated, so a shorter seatpost can feel a bit harsher. 

Finally, I'd really recommend optimizing for the toptube length you prefer, rather than picking on any other factor/recommendation. Bikes that fit feel better to me, and I always tend to decide that my bikes that feel better look right in the long run. Grant seems to be something of a marvel of fitness and fit adaptability, so there could be other considerations besides pbh that could contribute to your relative sizing preferences. 

[Joe Bernard]

Also Grant just really likes big frames with the seatpost dropped low. I tend towards this, too, but it's not for everybody. 

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I have an 81 cm PBH and I stand at 5’6”. I could have gone either 53 or 57, said Grant, but I went with 53, and I like it a lot. 

On Friday, September 26, 2025 at 12:12:19 PM UTC-4 Mike Gillespie wrote:

[Max S]

Bought a 57 from the previous run for one of my kids... who's 5'5"-ish, and "test rode" the bike myself a few times. Well, the kid can ride it and so can I! In fact, although I could see myself being able to ride a 61, I find the 57 to hit the sweetspot for me, too, when my hands land just behind the headtube. But I tend to prefer shorter reach frames, and on this bike I used a long stem and a bar with very generous back-sweep to accentuate the springiness of the frame.  (Photo below – rebuilt it with silver components recently and borrowed it for another test-ride / commute to work.) 

- Max "the bike is adjustable and the body is adaptable" in A2 

[Pat McCullar]

I went over to Walnut Creek in late February to test ride some of the new models, especially the Charlie. I have a PBH of just about 85cm, close enough to Grant's that I rode a few of his bikes. According to the geometry chart either a 53cm or 57cm Charlie would work for me. The 53 seemed a little cramped, but the 57 was great. Then Grant put me on his 61cm Charlie, with "don't pay any attention to the size, just ride it". It was just as good as the 57cm.. Grant basically says if you can comfortable straddle the bike, you can comfortable ride it. And the larger size comes with a quality that Grant can describe but I can't, that makes it more stable. 

I eventually went with a Homer frame, but only because I wanted more luggage carrying capacity that Charlie is recommended for. 

And, if I didn't live in a second floor walkup studio apartment, I would absolutely get the platypus giganticus, the 60cm. That bike has the most deluxe ride I can recall experiencing. 

Don't be afraid of the 61cm Charlie. 

Pat

[Mike Gillespie]

Thanks for all the great comments everyone.  After a bit of handwringing, I decided to go with the 61.  It pretty much rules out any drop bar configuration, but I seem to be weeding out these anyway. It’s also going to be the only side pull brake setup I have, so I’m hoping clearances remain acceptable. I’m a little surprised that, as of right now, none of these are sold out. Maybe this model has yet to catch on?

Mike

[Leah Peterson]

I’m surprised, too that there are any Charlies left to be had.. I adore Charlie. He and I are having a TIME together. He is a rascal and I cannot say no to him. We go running off every week together. It’s like the other people in the club ride aren’t even there. Today, I bought him a Varia radar to go with his Garmin so we get warned before we get hit by aggressive drivers. Of which there seem to be many these days.

I’m so excited for yours, Mike. I am sure your report will be a little different than mine, but great. Keep us in the loop!

On Oct 2, 2025, at 1:27 PM, Mike Gillespie <mike.gi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for all the great comments everyone.  After a bit of handwringing, I decided to go with the 61.  It pretty much rules out any drop bar configuration, but I seem to be weeding out these anyway. It’s also going to be the only side pull brake setup I have, so I’m hoping clearances remain acceptable. I’m a little surprised that, as of right now, none of these are sold out. Maybe this model has yet to catch on?

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[Jeremy Chrysler]

What a great thread. I'm 6'1" w/ an 84.5 PBH and I generally like longer bikes. I recently purchased a 61 Platypus from someone on this list, but I haven't picked it up yet. I'm pretty comfortable riding in the drops on an traditional road bike geometry so i think the length will be an advantage. 

[Lawrence Marcus]

Hi all,

I’m 5'8", 838mm PBH (highest measurement after many tries), 725-730mm saddle height. I have a 57cm Charlie with Albatross bars on order, but could change to a 53.

Will at Riv assured me that either the 53 or 57 will work fine with the right stem, and I can safely make the decision based on aesthetic considerations (seatpost and stem exposure). I trust that’s true, but I enjoy overthinking this type of decision, so I wanted to solicit opinions.

Some things I’m considering:

Fit: I’m currently on a Surly Preamble, size M, which has 570 ETT, 391 reach, and 567 stack with flat bars on a 9cm slightly upsloping stem (spacers maxed). On this bike I feel a bit stretched and hunched while sitting, but a higher and shorter stem made me feel too upright for this bike. I also feel constrained while standing, in that it feels like I’m “out of bike,” up against the bars and too far out over the front wheel. Additionally, I tend to find that positioning my saddle somewhat forward on the seat post helps my pedaling ergonomics. This all has me thinking that I'd benefit from more forward space in the cockpit (so I can go forward on the Albatross bars when standing, then back, but not too far back, when sitting), and this seems more easily achievable with the 57. The 53 has a longer ETT than the Preamble (583), but shorter reach (380) gives me pause, especially with the slack head tube angle.

Ride: I came across this post from Tani at Blue Lug, who asserts that the 57 Charlie has a markedly different (more momentum-friendly, less “zippy”) feel than the 49, which he’d previously ridden with Albastache bars. I’m ever-so-slightly worried about the 57 feeling less quick and agile than the 53 (I’ll be using the bike for city commuting sometimes), though if I chose the 53 I think I’d worry about missing out on added stability and comfort (I’ll also be using it for paved trail riding).

 

Versatility: I suspect I’ll like swept-back bars, but I don’t know for sure! Having the option of drops (Will said they’ll only work on the 53) or Wavies without a short stem (Will advised they’d work on the 57 with a 6-7cm stem) would be nice.

Aesthetics: I don’t love a slammed seat post (Tani’s 57 set to 70cm saddle height doesn’t look great to me), but I think the 57 will look ok with 9.5cm exposed (as should be the case with a Brooks B17). I like a Nitto Technomic stem set to a medium-ish height, and it might wind up looking high on the 53 if that’s winds up feeling best. So I think aesthetics point toward the 57.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[Lawrence Marcus]

Whoops, I liked to the wrong Blue Lug post. This is the one that discusses the differences in ride quality between two sizes: https://bluelug.com/blog/global/rivendell-research-swapping-the-charlie-to-a-charlie/

On Nov 26, 2025, at 12:02 PM, Lawrence Marcus <lawrenc...@gmail.com> wrote:



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