Rivendell "SimpleBeam" - New Model - Call for the Seriously Interested

[Cyclofiend Jim]

In a separate thread, I seem to have been volunteered to collect names of those seriously interested in a next generation SimpleOne / Quickbeam.

The thread can be found here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/QhzO4CFyz1U

Please take a moment to read it all the way through.  Thanks!

Ok... Welcome back!

here's what Grant posted:

On Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:53:57 PM UTC-8, grant wrote:

Nothing's ever for sure gone for good, but here's the thing with the SimpleBeams (forgive the gross generalizations used to make the point without accounting for exceptions. I will use "everybody" not in the literal sense):

Everybody moans the loss of a bike they didn't buy when it was availabe. The SB was always the slowest seller of all time, which in itself isn't the end of the world, but what it means for us is---it was a cash flow killer. We pay fully for 100 of them about two months before they arrive. Then it takes a year and a half or two years to sell them.
One thing that seems to happen is--when something's readily available, it's meh...and when it's gone, the heart grows fonder genuinely--and maybe people who would have been buyers when the bike was around have just learned about it and think hey I'd like that. But there is a small tendency to overenthuse about what can't be had. I do it myself with other things in my life. Dang, they quit making that ______ I've hemmed and hawed about and admired for years, but never wanted enough to buy, but now that I can't buy it, shoot!
I don't mean that's rampant here, and I DO like that the bikes are so well-liked. Me too. I sold my QB when I needed money, figured I could always get a SO, and now they're gone and I want one more than ever. So---I'm not just an observer of this phenomenon, but a participant!
If we could pre-sell 30 of them. Paid two-months before they arrive (that's when our payment is due), I'd stick my neck out and order 100. This time they'd be slightly different, and the danger of this hypothetical scenario is that it would open a debate about what's the difference between the new and old, which is preferable, then a vote, and it all gets weird and half the people who expressed willingness to get a new one now feel dis-listened to and bummed because it didn't go that way.
So...i'd be innnnnnerested only if I had free secret rein to tweak it this way and that, still resulting in a killer one-speed, but not a clone of the SO, which was a clone of the QB. It might be any color, any name, any kind of break, any anything. I totally get that ordering semi-blind isn't easy to do. The unblind part of the semi is: Track or horizontal dropouts angled to allow pad contact over a wide range of chainlengths, like QB/SO. Two bottle mounts, rackable. good clearance. Basically Sam-like with diff dropouts. Probably sidepulls but could be cantis. A perfectly good color, a good name, a nice badge, a really great singler.

Serious agreers will PM cyclofiend (Jim! So sorry,,,,please forgive me...but these  months I have so many kaleidiscopes in my head that I can't have another one), and if the list reaches 30 (meaning you'll have $1200  by Dec 2014 for the frame/fork/headset, and the money won't evaporate in a divorce or unforseeable crisis), then we'll get some good frames.

I have a full plate and I know it seems so bad to say I can't answer questions about this, but for the next few months I probably can't. You can try, and I'll try, but I'm at my  physicalemotional limit, and ... can't promise. If you send a postcard, I'll respond with a postcard.

Is this all too much? Probably. Sorry again.

If nothing happens now, I think the bike will happen again later, but it may be an extra year or two.

I know there are lots of options out there. I'm not trying to make this a difficult mystery bike. My crazy proposal......is the only way that makes sense for us right now.

Thanks..

Grant

So - what happens next?

I'll compile a list of takers/wanters/those-who-will-in-fact-pony-up.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED AND CAN COMMIT IN THE MANNER GRANT PROPOSED -

Please do this:

Email: cyclo...@gmail.com

Use a Subject Line: SimpleBeam Order

Include your name, email and a simple statement of desire to be in the queue. State frame size, quantity. 

DO NOT GIVE any payment information - I cannot  be responsible for your payment security (and you should never, ever put that in an email anyway...)

Please note - I do not work for Rivendell Bicycle Works.  I am wrangling this just to keep one iron in a separate fire for GP.  I'll keep you up to date, and will advise Grant on a regular basis as to the quantity of solid SimpleBeam confirmations.  Once we close in on ~30, I'll end up handing the reigns off to the fine folks in Walnut Creek.  I won't know delivery dates or any specifics, obviously.

I'll try to answer any questions on this, but I think I know as much as you folks, at this point. 

- Jim / cyclofiend.com / cyclo...@gmail.com
 

 

[Kieran J]

Neat!

[Bob Cook]

Kind of you to "volunteer." ;-)

Would you, Jim, or any others out there have a sense whether "Sam-like" could mean 135 rear spacing? I ask because I learned the way of single-speed after the SOs were gone.  I have a Cross Check with a wheel set I like very much (Paul hubs, White Industries DOS ENO freewheel). The rear hub is 135 OLD. CC is a fine frame, but I want lugs, longer chain stays, kickstand plate, etc.

Thanks,

Bob

[Philip Williamson]

"Sam like" probably means "double top tubes in the larger sizes."

135 OLD would be a good idea. Threadless headset, too. Not being sarcastic, either. I think both of those are good things. Neither are must-haves for me (neither is another Quickbeam (but it sure would be nice)). 

Philip

www.biketinker.com

[Alex Zeibot]

I propose smaller sizes, let's say 54-58 are 650b specific and bigger sizes confined to 700c.

Alex

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2013 09:11 PM, Alex Zeibot wrote:
> I propose smaller sizes, let's say 54-58 are 650b specific and bigger
> sizes confined to 700c.
> Alex
>

Why?

[Scott G.]

How about Campagnolo Cambio Corsa drop outs for the SimpleBeam ?

A Silver Cambio Corsa mech would be be fun.
The Paris--Roubaix mech is probably too complex to reproduce.

[Peter Morgano]

I thought this was supposed to be "simple"......

--

[Deacon Patrick]

Simple is the most complex idea of all. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Eric Norris]

Now THAT is something I would buy.

Eric N

www.CampyOnly.com

CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com

Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

--

[Jim Bronson]

I'm not really interested in a single speed but it is heartening to see Grant really engaged with the community and to lay out from a business perspective what is necessary to build xyz frame as a production frame.

-JimB

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Cyclofiend Jim <cyclo...@earthlink.net> wrote:

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[Patrick Moore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIZhSNdO_Zo

Even better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6UYOlN4FTU

Who needs DSI or whatever it's called?

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[Peter Morgano]

So if  enough people wanted an Atlantis with clearance for 65s we could make that happen too??

[Allan in Portland]

Not an expert, but this sounds like a Kickstarter.

Just sayin', fwiw. Cheers.

-Allan

[Alex Zeibot]

Hello Steve,

The reason is to eliminate the toe overlap without possibility of compromising the geometry especially with HT angle.  FWIW - QuickBeam has 72.5 HT angle, in all sizes.

I have a 54 QB and experienced toe overlaps too often that it is becoming too annoying. 

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[pb]

On Monday, November 25, 2013 1:10:08 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:

"Sam like" probably means "double top tubes in the larger sizes.

 

I would think that the answer to that would have to be added to the unblind part of the semi.  I can't be the only person for whom that would be a deal killer and a heart breaker.  To each his own, just my own position on the matter.  On my planet, double top tubes belong and look great on old Flying Pigeon or Hero bicycles.

 

~ pb

(60 cm) 

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

So far this thread is turning out to be a good example of what Grant was probably hoping to avoid. Everybody has their little pet feature, which, if implemented, would be a "deal-breaker" for at least 50% of other potential buyers. If this turns out to be 650B with a threadless headset, 135 spacing, double TT, and Cambio-Corsa dropouts, maybe one person on Earth won't be turned off or alienated, but that one guy doesn't have any money. Oh well!

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Making all QB/SO owners think, "SO glad I pulled the trigger!"

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[Bill Lindsay]

...and making all non-QB/SO owners think, "I need to have the cash ready to pounce next time I see one on the list"

Bill "who would take a 58" Lindsay

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Actually, what interests me is that aside from a reasonably small subset of posters (at this time ~17 out of the 2500 on the list), this thread seem to be more about the _lack_ of complaints regarding the ideals of the Quickbeam / SimpleOne.  I think that attests to its quality.  The reason when I saw it first announced in a Reader, it made me think - "that's it..." (Though I will also admit that the Orange run made it perfect).

Fact is, if my Quickbeam went away, I'd want to replace it exactly.   (Ok, I think I already mentioned a desire for mid-seatstay braze-ons so I wouldn't have to p-clamp a small rear rack... )

But, when I ride an Appaloosa and think - "Dang! Upright bars aren't bad and this pony seems uber-nimble" and want to replace my errand bike (The Zeus 650B Conversion project) so that I could do a fun loop on the way to the store, and spin contentedly home. Or, I look at the alluringly robust Hunqapillar and think - "Mmmm.... you slap the Quickbeam dropouts into that frame and there's nothing that could possibly rougher, tougher, all-world rambler..."  It makes me realize my tastes run to the simpler setups, and it caused me to instigate this conversation thread.

With the developments in knobby 650B/584 tires by the mtb folks, as well as the adoption of "29er" treads in a 700C/622 size, there are a bunch more tire options out there. All of which let you dream a bit broader for a v2.0 design.  Let's you think about wider hubs - and I've always wanted a Paul WORD rear...   Or think bigger - A Pugsley-type 'Beam?  That may be too much of an outlier ;^) (and I've always wanted a Pug-type bike, but sadly have no realistic reason to own one here in the middle of CA.)

Thanks for being a part of this conversation so far!  keep the thoughts and ideas coming.

[Trevor saxton]

It also makes those of us who bought, loved and sold one think all kinds of terrible thoughts. If they came out with another version, I'd say the only change I'd recommend is xtra long reach calliper brakes instead of cantis,

[justinatgif...@gmail.com]

I have a SO and love it. Maybe too much as it isn't my go-to bike as much as I had intended it to be (or rationalized it). It gets more attention than any other bike I have and I don't often let it leave my sight when I do take it out. It is not the fault of the bike; I am just that fond of it. I never understood why the SO didn't sell as well, or better than, the QB. Beside the fact that it is made in a different factory (even Grant has said that it is as well constructed as the QB) it has been improved upon with a kickstand plate (I don't believe anyone that complains about the 'look" or weight of a plate... functionality wins here). All that said, I would buy another if it were even MORE versatile with a rear cable bridge braze on (helps when carrying smaller saddlebags without support) OR just switching to sidepull breaks. I like the cantis but I think the sidepulls would make a simple bike even simpler. But more than anything... I think that a new SimpleBeam should be a Mixte frame! Yeah, it might be a deal breaker for some that think a level top tube is the only top tube that counts but a severely-sloping TT would make a useful bike even more useful with the addition of racks (and baskets) and easy (dis)mouting. Sure, young folks can swing those legs up like a dog marking their turf but with a mixte you can step-through like you mean it. With slightly thicker tubes (like an Atlantis) you could do anything, anywhere, anytime, with luggage!

[Edwin W]

I agree with the Mixte idea. It is even more "niche" than the QB or SO, but an as of yet unexplored niche!

On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:17:03 AM UTC-6, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

[Ryan]

Yeah...as a 61 year old..the idea of a mixte SO appeals. Would push the price up, I suspect . Good idea,though

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/12/2013 03:51 PM, Ryan wrote:
> Yeah...as a 61 year old..the idea of a mixte SO appeals.

What is there that would make an mixte especially appropriate for a 61
year old? And would that be more, or less appropriate than a mixte for
a 71 year old?

[sameness]

Yeah... as a 40 year old... the idea of a mixte SO appeals.

Jeff Hagedorn

Warragul, VIC Australia

[redsydude]

If the concept is a "Sam like" single speed, a "Betty like" single speed would also be $1200. 

[Patrick Moore]

I have to agree here with Steve, reluctantly. (Reluctant to be on the same side of the fence as Steve is, not reluctant to hold his implied position.) I don't see the point of a mixte unless you are very stiff (but I am; I can't get to within 6" of my toes) or wear a skirt (only on Sunday). Otherwise, you have a wobblier frame that is heavier and more expensive.

I've owned a few mixtes and I think they are neat for city bikes, but I've never been able to lift my leg high enough drag my foot over the diagonals without catching it on them and risking a fall -- I am serious here. I have to swing the leg up over the saddle or bar, as usual. (Over the bar is cooler but I risk a cramp when I do that.) 

Is it a fashion thing?

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/12/2013 05:45 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

I have to agree here with Steve, reluctantly. (

Shocking, ain't it?  Must be an electric fence...

Reluctant to be on the same side of the fence as Steve is, not reluctant to hold his implied position.) I don't see the point of a mixte unless you are very stiff (but I am; I can't get to within 6" of my toes) or wear a skirt (only on Sunday). Otherwise, you have a wobblier frame that is heavier and more expensive.

I've owned a few mixtes and I think they are neat for city bikes, but I've never been able to lift my leg high enough drag my foot over the diagonals without catching it on them and risking a fall -- I am serious here. I have to swing the leg up over the saddle or bar, as usual. (Over the bar is cooler but I risk a cramp when I do that.) 

Is it a fashion thing?

It may be a bad hip joint thing.  It certainly can be a skirt thing.  But it's for sure it IS NOT an age thing.  And even more certain, 61 doesn't have to be any kind of "old."  Unless, of course, in the specific case in point it is.  But I'm certainly with you re: stepping over the diagonals.  As you may recall, I have a space-frame Moulton which has a very low step-over (about the only low step-over design that doesn't have a wobbliness penalty), lower than our Jack Taylor mixte.  I've always found it easier to swing my leg over the back of the saddle than to step up over the frame.  And I'm a septuagenarian with a bad knee.

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:

On 12/12/2013 03:51 PM, Ryan wrote:

Yeah...as a 61 year old..the idea of a mixte SO appeals.

What is there that would make an mixte especially appropriate for a 61 year old?  And would that be more, or less appropriate than a mixte for a 71 year old?

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[Bill Lindsay]

News flash:  Two adult men who find it easier to swing over than step through agree that a step-through frame design offers them little benefit over the diamond frame design. 

[Eric Daume]

So, a single speed bike for old people with presumably bad hips but good knees?

On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:03 PM, jus...@giftandvariety.org <justinatgif...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a SO and love it. Maybe too much as it isn't my go-to bike as much as I had intended it to be (or rationalized it). It gets more attention than any other bike I have and I don't often let it leave my sight when I do take it out. It is not the fault of the bike; I am just that fond of it. I never understood why the SO didn't sell as well, or better than, the QB. Beside the fact that it is made in a different factory (even Grant has said that it is as well constructed as the QB) it has been improved upon with a kickstand plate (I don't believe anyone that complains about the 'look" or weight of a plate... functionality wins here). All that said, I would buy another if it were even MORE versatile with a rear cable bridge braze on (helps when carrying smaller saddlebags without support) OR just switching to sidepull breaks. I like the cantis but I think the sidepulls would make a simple bike even simpler. But more than anything... I think that a new SimpleBeam should be a Mixte frame! Yeah, it might be a deal breaker for some that think a level top tube is the only top tube that counts but a severely-sloping TT would make a useful bike even more useful with the addition of racks (and baskets) and easy (dis)mouting. Sure, young folks can swing those legs up like a dog marking their turf but with a mixte you can step-through like you mean it. With slightly thicker tubes (like an Atlantis) you could do anything, anywhere, anytime, with luggage!

--

[Corwin]

For the flipside of things - I have a QB and love it. One of the things I like best is no kickstand plate. I don't begrudge people that like kickstands and want a secure way to attach one - I just don't like or want a kickstand. I've ridden lots of bikes with kickstands and lots without. I prefer the ones without. If I'm going to pay something for a bike - I'm going to get what I like. Even if someone gave me a great bike with a kickstand plate and kickstand, I would likely give it away. Kickstand plates is one of the many reasons I prefer the Custom.

About the mixte idea - fine if you like mixtes - but I don't care for them. I'm in my mid 50s and have no trouble getting my leg over the saddle and top tube on any bike I ride. I regularly ride with guys 20+ years older than me. I consider myself _very_ fit. But they manage to pull away from me - even on the steepest hills in the East Bay such as Mc Ewan Road or El Toyonal. They have no trouble getting over the saddle/top tube either.

This is all water under the bridge since I have no plans to buy another bike remotely like my QB.

Regards,



Corwin

[cyclotourist]

I love my wife's step-through. I was close to getting that Wilbury on
ebay recently, but then bidding jumped about $600 more than it was
worth to me. Something really cool about a step-through frame.

On 12/12/13, Edwin W <dween...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with the Mixte idea. It is even more "niche" than the QB or SO, but
>
> an as of yet unexplored niche!
>
>

--
Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[Bryan]

My silver QB has a kickstand plate and mid-seatstay braze-ons (although I haven't used either yet). Take that, orange QB snobs! 

Bryan 

[Metin Uz]

I am with Corwin. Both of these (kickstand plate and mid-seatstay braze-ons) would be deal breakers for me, aesthetically. I think QB is about minimalism. Another reason I prefer canti brakes; you can add a front rack without an additional braze-on, as long as the fork crown is drilled. 

--Metin

[Peter Morgano]

I don't see the kickstand plate hating, seems really nitpicky. I mean, how often do you actually look over your bikes to find the things you don't like? I guess this keeps the custom frame builders in business so to each their own.

On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Bryan <bwed...@gmail.com> wrote:

My silver QB has a kickstand plate and mid-seatstay braze-ons (although I haven't used either yet). Take that, orange QB snobs! 

Bryan 

--

[Christopher Chen]

Ah, if someone wants something super custom I see it. I subscribe to the view that the more options (within reason) the better, so I want the kickstand (and fender mounting!) plate, and as many brazeons as I can get.

I love the idea of a Not-Dumb bike. Of course that's in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

--
"I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah

[Peter Morgano]

I also want all the options they can tack on the bike, I mean, why not? I never thought I would use those top of the fork mounts on the bombadil but turns out it was a perfect place to mount my dyno light after going front rackless due to wheel flop frustration. 

[cyclotourist]

So there!

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[Philip Williamson]

Maybe what the NewBeam needs is an optional canti-mount rear rack or saddlebag support? 

I'm still in favor of a NewBeam exactly like the OG 2004 green ones, with slightly more tire clearance. New graphics, new name, new color. Gray, maybe. 

Philip

www.biketinker.com (big layout update for 2014)

[Michael]

I would be interested in a Rivendell single speed for winter riding because there is a ton of roadsalt around here in MD these days that is keeping me off my Sam because I am afraid of tearing up my components by getting salt all over them.

I think that it would be less expensive, every year or two,  to replace just one salt-trashed chainring, rear cog, and chain after a salty winter than two derailers, cassette, three chainrings, and 2 cables.

I don't know how the wheels would fare, though...

 

[Peter Pesce]

Agreed Jim. Wouldn't it just be easier to see if there were 30 people willing to pre-order an actual SO/QB? I know there's no opportunity for creative expression in that, but it does seem odd to try to satisfy demand for the those bikes with a new bike that will explicitly NOT be those bikes! I know GP uses "clone" in a pejorative sense but to "keep making" a bike is not "cloning" it. Besides, aren't there business side advantages to continuing to sell, though perhaps on a limited, pre order basis, the bike for which you already amortized the tooling and development costs?

I have a last gen silver QB and love it. If it were stolen or wrecked I'd seriously consider paying custom-shop money for a new one. I'm not the least bit interested in a NewBeam that has the chunky tube set of my Sam, double top tubes, or wavy gravy curved rear triangle bits. To me that bike would have nothing in common with a QB beyond the dropouts.

Pete in CT

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I think those are all good points, Pete.  

When this topic popped up, it struck me that I didn't want to skew the conversation by talking about my own bias towards the Quickbeam design.  It seemed to me (and still does) that the Quickbeam/Simpleone is one of the great designs that Grant has come up with - containing those things which are needed, but little else.  Of course, in the years since that first announcement appeared, there have been a number of trends which have come and gone or arrived and stayed. It's incredibly easy to get large volume 622/700C tires, both smooth and treaded.  Longer stays are not an outlier. Racks and useful bags more commonplace.   Recently swept-back bars and mixte-acceptability have edged into the common arena. 

So, with those facets gaining more proponents, my thought was really to see if any of them have become more "have-to-have" features.  With ~2500 addresses in this group, even if EVERYONE who ever bought a 'Beam or a 'One is here, that means that ~2100 of them didn't.  If there's some reason why, other than a lack of derailleur, it would be interesting if that popped up. 

None of which may matter, as GP might already have ideas nailed down, lugs, tubes and angles spec'd.   But, I will pass trends and comments (both here and the private thoughts and pre-orders which folks have submitted) along to Grant when he has fewer things on his immediate plate. 

If the next model looks exactly like the last, it would not bother me in the least, but at least it won't be because I didn't ask. ;^)

all the best,

- Jim

[Ray Shine]

Not too far off topic. Yesterday it was a beautiful mid-December afternoon and unseasonably warm here in the Bay Area. Since the 49ers weren't playing until this evening, I decided to take a ride over the bridge into the Marin Headlands. I've not done that in a couple of months. I chose to take my QB, more on a whim than anything. I have been riding the QB to the office, rotating between it and the Gomez for several months, now. I didn't even bother to remove the single Swift Industries pannier from the rear rack. I just pulled it out of the back, got on, and headed for the bridge. Very little thought given to it at all.

Despite the fact that the QB's engine needs a serious tune-up, the ride was still exceptionally smooth, quiet, and conducive to "just riding."  Last year I replaced the drops with Alba's and cork grips. What a great riding position, and the forward bends in the Alba allowed for better hill climb position when needed (which, in the Headlands, is always necessary).

Anyway, I did not even bother to take the obligatory beauty shots with the iPhone. I just rode, stopped, drank water, and rode some more. Very good ride. I love that bike. At a pit stop by the Pt. Bonita Light House trail, a couple of guys rode up to also use the facilities. Not clubbies or weekend racers. Just a couple of guys riding around. One checked out the QB and was quite taken with it. He asked lots of questions, and was very impressed with the design and the "simplicity" of it all -- and mine is more cluttered up than many.  I showed him how easy it is to switch gears, explained the need to flip the wheel for the low granny set-up. All that. He got it, too. He knew that one would not be in a particular hurry when riding a QB.  Nice guy, really, although neither had ever heard of Rivendell.

---

From: Cyclofiend Jim <cyclo...@earthlink.net>
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 3:53 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell "SimpleBeam" - New Model - Call for the Seriously InterestedB

--

[Tony Lockhart]

Couldn't agree with you more Pete, especially related to chunky tubing, 2TT's, and curvy triangle bits. I just really hope another run happens, hopefully in an awesome 2-tone color setup. The bike is good as is. 

Tony 

On Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:39:41 PM UTC-8, Peter Pesce wrote:

[Tony DeFilippo]

I know this exists somewhere, could some one share a link, hopefully with pictures describing the QB non-derailleur shifting options...

I know it involves a surly dingle or WI Dos Eno with a corresponding double crank. But I'm not as clear on his you maintain use of the same chain with the multiple combos.

I just got my XO-3 setup with a WI eccentric hub so I'm trying for a quasi-QB 26'er... Though the experience may just convince me I have to participate in the Simple Beam/Quick One project!

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Tony,

Here's a cyclofiend scan of the QB RR ad (no pics of the actual act of shifting). Shifting for QB/SO is by un-bolting the rear wheel and moving the chain to the cog (single or dingle) and/or chain ring (single or double). The not-so-secret is that QB/SO has longer than typical rear fork ends (and they have a slight curve). 

Chain ring + cog combos chosen carefully as chain slack (like most single-speed or fixed) is accommodated by axle position in the fork end. The curve in the fork end is nice to keep the rim/rear brake position constant-- no need to change the brake shoe position.

http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr31_pg25.jpg

Hope that helps, shoji

[Ray Shine]

Also, there can only be an 8 tooth or less difference between the two front chain rings. Ex. 40/32. I have a 24/32 because I climb a lot.

---

From: Shoji Takahashi <shoji.t...@gmail.com>
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:58 AM

Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell "SimpleBeam" - New Model - Call for the Seriously InterestedB

--

[Eric Norris]

The one flaw in the long fork ends is that typical (long) brake shoes which are properly oriented on the rim in the “normal” position can extend into the area of the tire when the wheel is moved far forward or back. In my experience, the extreme positions are only available if you don’t use the rear brake.

--Eric Norris
Email: campyo...@me.com
Web: www.campyonly.com
Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/campyonlyguy

[Bill Lindsay]

...or just run short brake pads

[Eric Norris]

That would be too easy.

One solution I have found is to use a 3-speed hub, which gives me a good range of gears without messing with the wheel at all. I use a Sturmey Archer S3X, which I can run as a fixie or (with a standard one-speed freewheel) as a coasting 3-speed.

--Eric Norris
Email: campyo...@me.com
Web: www.campyonly.com
Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/campyonlyguy

On Dec 24, 2013, at 9:23 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ...or just run short brake pads
>

[Lee Chae]

Hi Eric. Can you review the S3X hub? I'm thinking about using one but I know there were mixed reports on them when they first came out.

Thanks!
Lee

[Eric Norris]

I have the S3X on two bikes, with thousands of combined miles. I’ve never had a failure—only one missed shift that I can recall in about two years of riding, and that was probably my fault.

I don’t have proof, by my guess is that the S3X is more sturdy than a standard Sturmey Archer 3-speed hub because it doesn’t have pawls inside. Because it has no pawls, it also runs silently, without the constant (if quiet) ticking that a 3-speed hub normally makes.

To run in fixed mode, you use a splined cog that slides onto the hub and is held in place by a locking. There’s a bit of “lash” in the hub—even with the chain properly tight, there’s a slight lag between backpedaling and forward pedaling. This eliminates a bit of the “flywheel” effect of a true fixed gear, but it still rides pretty much like a regular fixie.

You also have the option of spinning on a standard one-speed freewheel, which turns the S3X into a coasting hub. The benefit to this setup is that the pawls (the part that usually breaks) is outside of the hub and easily fixed—either fix the freewheel or put on a new one. I have a White Industries Eno freewheel on my Quickbeam; my Motobecane is still in fixed mode.

I have my bikes geared so that the top gear is my normal cruising gear (somewhere around 72 inches) and I have two lower gears for the steep stuff (75% and 60% of the top gear). With a top gear of 72 inches, this gives a low of 45, which is for me good enough until the gradient goes over about 10 percent. YMMV.

--Eric Norris
Email: campyo...@me.com
Web: www.campyonly.com
Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/campyonlyguy

[Tony DeFilippo]

Shoji, Ray, thanks very much that is exactly what I was looking for! The current crank on the XO is a 50-40-30 so I'll have to see if I can push that 8T in either direction. If not I'll be out looking for a 32-34ish inner ring and a pants guard outer ring.

I guess the chain line is adequate enough in the QB configuration...

[Lee Chae]

Thanks for the detailed review, Eric. I've been hemming and hawing about getting one. Good to hear about your experiences of its durability.

Best,
Lee

[Patrick Moore]

After debating all the various possibilities for extending the gearing on my two Riv fixies, , I still come back to the S3X as the best idea. I like having the pawls in the add-on freewheel, and, especially, that direct drive is in 3d. Just waiting for the $$ to get them and have them built into wheels.

Hopefully they will still be available at that distant future date when I do have the money.

Burque (NM)

 

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[Lee Chae]

I feel the same way, Patrick. Direct drive in the top gear, with a couple of helper gears when absolutely necessary. I'm planning on using it on a utility bike. Hopefully it's okay on a load-carrying bike...

[Peter Pesce]

I just bought an S3X for my QB commuter based (almost) entirely on Eric's recent and past endorsements. If it's good enough for his PBPs it's good enough for mine! (Btw., PBP for me stands for Pub-Bar-Pub)
After I get the wheel built and New England thaws out enough for some bike commuting I'll report back to the list with another data point.

Pete in CT

[Eric Norris]

I think you'll like it a lot. Are you planning to put a freewheel on it, or run fixed?

–Eric N
Sent from my iPhone 5S

[Peter Pesce]

Eric

I'm going to put a freewheel on it. The idea of having the pawls in the replaceable part just makes so much sense to me. I think a "direct drive with helper gears" set up will work perfectly for my commuting and utility needs.

Pete in CT

[Bill Lindsay]

Do you have a current snapshot of the length of the list?  Grant asked for 30 people to PM Jim and commit to him that they'll buy a $1200 frameset.  Do you have 30, Jim?  Do you have 10?  Where does this stand right now?

On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:17:03 AM UTC-8, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

In a separate thread, I seem to have been volunteered to collect names of those seriously interested in a next generation SimpleOne / Quickbeam.

The thread can be found here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/QhzO4CFyz1U

Please take a moment to read it all the way through.  Thanks!

Ok... Welcome back!

here's what Grant posted:

On Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:53:57 PM UTC-8, grant wrote:

Nothing's ever for sure gone for good, but here's the thing with the SimpleBeams (forgive the gross generalizations used to make the point without accounting for exceptions. I will use "everybody" not in the literal sense):

Everybody moans the loss of a bike they didn't buy when it was availabe. The SB was always the slowest seller of all time, which in itself isn't the end of the world, but what it means for us is---it was a cash flow killer. We pay fully for 100 of them about two months before they arrive. Then it takes a year and a half or two years to sell them.
One thing that seems to happen is--when something's readily available, it's meh...and when it's gone, the heart grows fonder genuinely--and maybe people who would have been buyers when the bike was around have just learned about it and think hey I'd like that. But there is a small tendency to overenthuse about what can't be had. I do it myself with other things in my life. Dang, they quit making that ______ I've hemmed and hawed about and admired for years, but never wanted enough to buy, but now that I can't buy it, shoot!
I don't mean that's rampant here, and I DO like that the bikes are so well-liked. Me too. I sold my QB when I needed money, figured I could always get a SO, and now they're gone and I want one more than ever. So---I'm not just an observer of this phenomenon, but a participant!
If we could pre-sell 30 of them. Paid two-months before they arrive (that's when our payment is due), I'd stick my neck out and order 100. This time they'd be slightly different, and the danger of this hypothetical scenario is that it would open a debate about what's the difference between the new and old, which is preferable, then a vote, and it all gets weird and half the people who expressed willingness to get a new one now feel dis-listened to and bummed because it didn't go that way.
So...i'd be innnnnnerested only if I had free secret rein to tweak it this way and that, still resulting in a killer one-speed, but not a clone of the SO, which was a clone of the QB. It might be any color, any name, any kind of break, any anything. I totally get that ordering semi-blind isn't easy to do. The unblind part of the semi is: Track or horizontal dropouts angled to allow pad contact over a wide range of chainlengths, like QB/SO. Two bottle mounts, rackable. good clearance. Basically Sam-like with diff dropouts. Probably sidepulls but could be cantis. A perfectly good color, a good name, a nice badge, a really great singler.

Serious agreers will PM cyclofiend (Jim! So sorry,,,,please forgive me...but these  months I have so many kaleidiscopes in my head that I can't have another one), and if the list reaches 30 (meaning you'll have $1200  by Dec 2014 for the frame/fork/headset, and the money won't evaporate in a divorce or unforseeable crisis), then we'll get some good frames.

I have a full plate and I know it seems so bad to say I can't answer questions about this, but for the next few months I probably can't. You can try, and I'll try, but I'm at my  physicalemotional limit, and ... can't promise. If you send a postcard, I'll respond with a postcard.

Is this all too much? Probably. Sorry again.

If nothing happens now, I think the bike will happen again later, but it may be an extra year or two.

I know there are lots of options out there. I'm not trying to make this a difficult mystery bike. My crazy proposal......is the only way that makes sense for us right now.

Thanks..

Grant

So - what happens next?

I'll compile a list of takers/wanters/those-who-will-in-fact-pony-up.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED AND CAN COMMIT IN THE MANNER GRANT PROPOSED -

Please do this:

Email: cyclo...@gmail.com

Use a Subject Line: SimpleBeam Order

Include your name, email and a simple statement of desire to be in the queue. State frame size, quantity. 

DO NOT GIVE any payment information - I cannot  be responsible for your payment security (and you should never, ever put that in an email anyway...)

Please note - I do not work for Rivendell Bicycle Works.  I am wrangling this just to keep one iron in a separate fire for GP.  I'll keep you up to date, and will advise Grant on a regular basis as to the quantity of solid SimpleBeam confirmations.  Once we close in on ~30, I'll end up handing the reigns off to the fine folks in Walnut Creek.  I won't know delivery dates or any specifics, obviously.

I'll try to answer any questions on this, but I think I know as much as you folks, at this point. 

- Jim / cyclofiend.com / cyclo...@gmail.com
 

 

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey there Bill -

Right now, there are less than 10 people who have sent an email saying that they would absolutely, positively be on board. 

This does not concern me at all, as a number more have contacted me with interest.  Plus, the project has only been announced here on the list.  I was going to request that they make a general announcement on their Blug, via the Newsletter and possibly through an Instagram post.  But, I wanted to wait until around now before making a second push.

Also, the focus of most discussions has been features and brainstorming for the model.  Some of the feedback from the people who are interested but have not yet committed is that they are waiting until that conversation had ended or at least waned a bit.

Hope that helps!

- Jim

[Bill Lindsay]

Jim

That all sounds reasonable, and I appreciate the peek into the process.  That tells me what I wanted to know.  

Bill

[RJM]

I'm having a problem sending emails out here for some reason, but I was thinking of this project this weekend. I really would like a nice singlespeed one that has that lovely Riv rideability, looks like a Riv, can be set up with racks and bags ect. (not too loaded touring bike-like though). So, I would be onboard to buy one sight unseen provided I could get on in my size...I have a PBH of 79 and ride a 53 Roadeo and own a 48 Sam Hillborne.

[lungimsam]

So how's it Lookin for this project at this point?

[Lungimsam]

Bump

[Karen Yuen]

Did anything ever come of this or is this still in the works?

[Joe Bernard]

I don't think so. Since then we've had the CLEM and Appaloosa projects, and there's more multi-speed stuff in the pipeline. I don't think we'll see another single-speed bike from Rivendell.

[Bill]

How about a looong chainstay version? Never say never.

[Lungimsam]

Single speeders must have strong legs.
Even when I ride in flat Florida I have to use about 4-speeds.

[Deacon Patrick]

Och! Gear tyranny! Grin. Free yourself, Lungimsam! Pick one. Ride it for two weeks. You'll be amazed at how much your riding improves, and how little you really "need" those gears.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Stephen Kemp]

The thing is, as we all know, any bike can be a single speed. Riv themselves say "Don’t wait for us to do a dedicated single speeder. Just get a Sam/Cheviot/Clem/Hunq whatever with an ENO hub. You won’t regret it."
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:a6u1yOIwzPQJ:rivbike.tumblr.com/post/126529814824/staff-steed-sammy-single-speed-i-missed-the+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

That way you can have the go-fast single speed, the touring single speed, the long chainstay single speed and so one. The world is your oyster.

Even when Riv have gone to the effort of providing dedicated single speeders, people seem to go to extraordinary lengths to add gears!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/not$20so$20simple/rbw-owners-bunch/twQp7M0UUOc/VnQcwlRkEAAJ

[Patrick Moore]

You'll adapt to such a degree that you'll amaze yourself. I'm certainly no athlete and not young by any means, but I still prefer fixed riding on the road precisely for the challenge of doing more with less. That sounds like putting principle before fun, but no, the fun comes precisely from doing just this, and --- a very big AND -- learning how to "automatically" or, better, "intuitively" adapt your pedaling and expectations to the terrain and conditions. 

First, your body and mind adapt to a slow cadence against the obstacles of hills and winds, and also to slower speeds as required. Second, you learn to pace yourself without much thought -- you no longer sprint at the bottom of a hill to keep momentum up for the next rise; you conserve energy and simply let the bike slow according to the terrain and your comfort zone. Or, starting out against a wind, you no longer expect to pedal at a, say 90 rpm cadence; 60 or even lower feels "natural" in such conditions.

This is all much more complicated to explain than to do.

Funny, talking about adaptation: many racers still, or used to, ride fixed in a sub 70" gear in early season to "develop their spin." Me, when younger and fitter, I used to be a spinner -- 21 mph in a 65" gear, 23 in a 70" gear cruising on windless flats. (I know this well because I was a gearing afficionado; I knew, and still know, all my ratios by heart, methodically counted my cadence; and used Avocet XX cyclecomputers.) But after I took up fixed gear riding circa 1997, I gradually became a masher. Now a comfortable pace in similar circumstances in a 70" gear is 18 mph. Of course, age is part of the reason -- my spinning days were in my mid 30s to early 40s; I'm 61 now. But the other big reason was getting comfortable grinding up hills in a highish gear, and learning to stand for longer periods.

On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Lungimsam <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Single speeders must have strong legs.
Even when I ride in flat Florida I have to use about 4-speeds.

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[Lungimsam]

Well it would be fun to try.

[Lungimsam]

But tge smallest SO frane has a 56.5 TT and that is way too longvfor me.

So no SO for me

[Lungimsam]

No QB for me either as the smallest is 56cm TT