So what do I put in my tea now?

[lum gim fong]

If Taubes is right, then what do I replace sugar in all my foods/drinks with?

[sameness]

Black coffee.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

[lum gim fong]

Can't do coffee. I like coffee but it don't like me.

[Garth]

Isn't it good enouh as it is ? You like it with sugar, great ..... what does some guy have to do with that ?

[Deacon Patrick]

Cream.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Ian A]

For food and smoothies etc., I like to use dates for sweetener. Unsweetened coconut flakes are naturally really sweet and also healthy and good with various different foods  Ground sesame seeds also add sweetness. For coffee, I use organic cane sugar, but only a small amount typically. Tea I drink without sweetener, but something like agave syrup might work.

 I have used and liked a lot agave (cactus) syrup.  Maple syrup also actually works as sweetener, but I don't particularly enjoy it.

I think organic cane sugar is a good step away from commercial sugar if nothing else works for you.

Ian A/Canada

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 2:47:06 PM UTC-7, lum gim fong wrote:

[Deacon Patrick]

The more your body is addicted to sugar, the harder the transition, but fat is very satisfying. It takes time for your tastebuds and taste satisfaction triggers (via the amigdila I think?) to reset themselves to unprocessed food. When they do, wow, do flavors pop! Perhaps break the addiction by not having tea at all, but just having a mug of cream? Yum.

With abandon,

Patrick

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 2:47:06 PM UTC-7, lum gim fong wrote:

[lum gim fong]

My question was partially a joke, as many people say not to consume something or face the tragic consequences.

Modern western nutrition advice is like a never ending, flowing field of ever changing zeitgeists.

Hard to sort through it all to see what is really true about nutrition.

Hi fat, low fat, no sugar, coffee causes cancer, oops... now it doesn't! Who's backing which research, etc. Broccoli causes cancer,, whoops, now it doesn't...

[dstein]

drink lots of water. i gave up sugar in my coffee and tea and i also gave up cola's years ago, never looked back. Then i gave up caffeine and dammed if i can't find a good reason to go hang out in a coffee shop now (yeah i know, there's herbal tea and decaf coffee, but not a fan of either, well that's more money for bike stuff at least).

[lum gim fong]

but my question was  not all joke, as I was legitimately wondering what people use as sugar substitutes. 

[Eric Floden]

Honey is great in tea, yum

It is in my cuppa lapsang souchong right now

Eric

Vancouver

[Steve Palincsar]

Ride what you like, eat what you like?

[Eric Daume]

Maybe someday they will invent an artificial sweetener that doesn't have any sugar. 

On Friday, January 6, 2017, lum gim fong <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

but my question was  not all joke, as I was legitimately wondering what people use as sugar substitutes. 

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[Tim]

Stevia and xylitol? Recommended for low carb...

[Eamon Nordquist]

I rarely use sweeteners, but when I do, it's usually a little xylitol. I make sure it's made from natural sources (like hardwood trees or similar, not made in some Monsanto lab). It's naturally preventative for tooth decay, much lower in calories, and doesn't cause an insulin spike like sugar does. You do need to be careful if you have a dog, however, as it is toxic to dogs.

Eamon

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 1:47:06 PM UTC-8, lum gim fong wrote:

[Christopher Cote]

Drink it black. I can't stand sweet drinks anymore. Still like candy and chocolate, though. That's my weakness.

[Tim Butterfield]

For hot tea, no sugar is needed once you get used to it.  I occasionally put in a little honey if I'm desperate for sweetener or fighting off a cold, but I usually have hot tea straight.  This is for hot black teas and white teas, not just the flavored kinds.  I normally drink Dragon Black Pearl tea, getting 3-5 individual cups steeped from two pearls.  You could also try steeping with a cinnamon stick for some flavor or add the juice from 1/4 of a lemon.  For cold teas, which I do not often have living now in the PNW, I still prefer those sweetened, but that could just be habit from living in the south for a long time.  Some stevia might work also though I have not really investigated it.

Tim

[dougP]

For your consideration:

dougP:

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 1:47:06 PM UTC-8, lum gim fong wrote:

[Deacon Patrick]

In case you missed this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html?_r=0

With abandon,

Patrick

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 2:47:06 PM UTC-7, lum gim fong wrote:

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

For my morning coffee (or green tea), I usually add coconut oil. It's tasty, and the good fat sustains me for the rest of the morning -- plus, I get my lips moisturized!  ; )

Bob E.

[lum gim fong]

Patrick,

This is exactly why I can't believe any of the championed diets of today: pro-sugar, pro-fat, no-fat, paleo, vegan, organic, Saccharin, stevia, caveman diet, bottled water, municipal water, etc...

Bad human behavior like this has made it hard for me to believe anything "they" say.

[Mark in Beacon]

In the end, though, it's not that complicated. I believe the advice is "shop the fringes" or something like that. That's where all the unprocessed foods are--vegetables, fruits, fish, meat, eggs, cheese. I like to get as much of that as possible at my farmer's market or from my neighbors. Curious why you have sugar in all your foods and drinks. For stuff that you find you really do not want to do without it, there are other alternatives that are less damaging, and don't spike your insulin so quickly, like honey (tea, cookie recipes) or maple syrup (yogurt, oatmeal) or coconut oil (Wasa crispbread, scrambled eggs, brussel sprouts, mmmm). A teaspoon of sugar in your coffee each day isn't the end of the world, though as Patrick says, I find that after a couple of days, half and half adds plenty of sweetness. Beacon right now has great municipal water. If I were in Flint, I might choose bottled (unless it was locally bottled--lots of bottled water is municipal.)

[Garth]

Exactly lum . If you just pàuse for awhile ànd really listen , it seems everbody is blaming somebody for something. Oh my ..... it seems the while elephant in the room , is human existence itself is the perceived problem and we all pretend to be problem solvers in various forms and statures for all manners of problems from a flat tire to structural, social and economic and political issues to even what's for lunch, , but in case we missed it, and we cannot miss it, there are more problems than ever...... so it seems at least. But hey, this too is just more rationalizing around the elephant that isn't really there .....ahahahahaaha !

Like Curly , Moe and Larry ..... awwwww .... wise guy eh ? I got you problem right here .....and the solution .... Bam ! right in the snooker . Feel better ?

[Deacon Patrick]

Mark put it wonderfully. It's really not that complicated. Eliminate all processed foods from your diet (get a VitaMix blender so you can process your own). Eat real food. From there it is an n=1 experiment. How are you feeling? Try no fat for a month. Try 80% of calories from healthy fat for a month. Which one works better for you? If you eliminate grains and sugars, what are you replacing those calories with?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Bill]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/gary-taubes-is-a-blowhard/amp/

Maybe Gary Taubes isn't right.

[Hugh Smitham]

Steve is on the money here. 

I drink coffee in the morning with some 1/2 & 1/2 and in the afternoon any number of my favorite teas always with a spoonful of honey and 1/2 & 1/2. 

~Hugh 

[olof...@gmail.com]

Bill wrote:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/gary-taubes-is-a-blowhard/amp/

Maybe Gary Taubes isn't right.

Me: Maybe not, not always. That´s why he took the initiative to start NuSI (the nutrition science initiative; nusi.org ) to support research in the subject. The author of the link above however is just a person - although in the nutrition field - who took offence that Taube critized a study in a blog entry without going deep inte the subject, instead directing the reader to Zoe Harcombes critique, and answered by insinuating in the link above that Taubes just had invented his field to sell snake-oil to feed his family. Not a substantial claim of his own, just a condescending statement that Zoe H was nowhere to find and problably had bought her license for £30 on the net (ZH is a wellknown PhD from Cambridge and researcher).

Frankly, the blogauthor seems to me to be an entrenched traditionalist with much thought of his own and lazy to that.

Cheers, and may I direct you to https://www.dietdoctor.com/ if you want to know more

Olof Stroh
Uppsala Sweden

[Hugh Smitham]

Not everyone will benefit from a low carb diet. Yes people with diabetes or those on the fringe of developing type 2 should restrict their starch intake. 

I have a Kidney disease and have cut out all animal meat. I limit my carb intake but by no means intend to cut carbs entirely. 

I like to modify the old adage "Physician heal thyself"  to simply know thyself, heal thyself. 

~Hugh  

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

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[olof...@gmail.com]

Of course people are different and react differently to both carbs and other nutrients. That is also the view of Taubes and Andreas Eenfeldt who are very much against the picture of lchf as bacon galore.

 

And kidney disease is a serious thing and requires individual care.

 

And of course I meant „ ...traditionalist withOUT much thought of his own ..“.

 

Olof in Uppsala

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Smitham
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 10:32 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] So what do I put in my tea now?

 

Not everyone will benefit from a low carb diet. Yes people with diabetes or those on the fringe of developing type 2 should restrict their starch intake. 

 

I have a Kidney disease and have cut out all animal meat. I limit my carb intake but by no means intend to cut carbs entirely. 

 

I like to modify the old adage "Physician heal thyself"  to simply know thyself, heal thyself. 

 

~Hugh  

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

 

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

 

 

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 1:22 PM, <olof...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bill wrote:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/gary-taubes-is-a-blowhard/amp/

Maybe Gary Taubes isn't right.

Me: Maybe not, not always. That´s why he took the initiative to start NuSI (the nutrition science initiative; nusi.org ) to support research in the subject. The author of the link above however is just a person - although in the nutrition field - who took offence that Taube critized a study in a blog entry without going deep inte the subject, instead directing the reader to Zoe Harcombes critique, and answered by insinuating in the link above that Taubes just had invented his field to sell snake-oil to feed his family. Not a substantial claim of his own, just a condescending statement that Zoe H was nowhere to find and problably had bought her license for £30 on the net (ZH is a wellknown PhD from Cambridge and researcher).

Frankly, the blogauthor seems to me to be an entrenched traditionalist with much thought of his own and lazy to that.

Cheers, and may I direct you to https://www.dietdoctor.com/ if you want to know more

Olof Stroh
Uppsala Sweden

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[Wayne Naha]

Oh, snap!

[lum gim fong]

So if one ate only what Taubes says to eat, I wonder what percentage of edible foods for humans found on the planet would have to be cut out.

Like, if every human, today, started ate Taubes diet, would a large percentage of plant and animal life never be harvested again for human consumption?

And would that percentage be so high as to be considered the Taubes diet a perversion?

[lum gim fong]

By the way, that 105 year old Frenchman who just rode 14 miles in an hour said he eats vegetables and did ultra riding beginning at age 68.

So his life debunks the low carb diet fad, as well as the latest "ultra-events-are-not-good-for-you" fad.

[Deacon Patrick]

You're reaching conclusions perhaps without all the information. For example, did you realize that eating veggies is an intigral part of low carb? The leafier and greener the better, in general, and they aren't carbs, they digest to fatty acids. Additionally, what you refer to as the "ultra-events-are-not-good-for-you" fad actually refers to anaerobic activity, chronic cardio, not to low-level aerobic activity associated with healthy endurance activities.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Garth]

Health is wholeness. Let's see, when is the whole not whole , complete not complete ? Never, else the whole never be at all. Seems to me either you are and you always are, whole and complete, or not and never were. You cannot be and not be whole, else you could not be at aĺl, since to be at all you must be whole since they are the same one .

[Steve Palincsar]

So, if you get sick then go and die? Now there's a health care plan...

[Garth]

Don't worry that it went right over your head Steve . .  I cannot explain it either  . . . since the truth doesn't have or need any explanations
.

[Patrick Moore]

Or intelligibility, apparently.

Garth: you usually relate valuable information and do so very clearly when you are not trying to be "metaphysical" and clever. I enjoy your sober posts. Why not stick to what you do best?

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 6:49 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]  . . . since the truth doesn't have or need any explanations
.

[Eric Daume]

+1 to that. Clear writing helps everyone. 

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[Steve Palincsar]

Deep -- or...

Post-truth, or post-meaning?

[Jon B]

Returning to the original topic:  There are a lot of sweeteners; many (such as honey, date, or agave) contain sugars that may not be any more healthful than white table sugar.  There is some debate over this, and I am not an expert on that topic, but at the very least, they are similarly caloric.  Personally I use Stevia when I really need a sweetener, but no, it does not taste as good.

The strategy I would recommend is to gradually reduce the amount of sweetener you use.  Over time, you may find that you get used to a less sweet beverage and may even find the old amount of sweetener less palatable.  This may not work for everyone, but I found it helpful.

Jon

[Justin August]

I work hard to eat less sugar. I started cutting back in my coffee by swapping to just half n half then swapped to black with cinnamon and now have moved to just black coffee but I try to get lighter, more floral and fruity tasting natural or washed coffees. Every once in a while I'll whip up some half n half in my Neopresso frother with honey to make a honey latte. When you cut back on anything - sugar, salt, fat, meat, veggies, fruit, spices - your tastes adjust to your new normal.

I also bought a half dozen Krispy Kreme doughnuts with my wife yesterday. Love and love your own life.

-Justin

[Abcyclehank]

Justin-
Confused by your last sentence. Someone told me last April that Krispy Kreme eliminated all sugar from their product. Eat up I have enjoyed them every day since. Gotta run to the Gym don't know how I put on 50 lbs since then. Better go back to drinking only water.

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

[Daniel D.]

Just Eat

[Scott G.]

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 4:47:06 PM UTC-5, lum gim fong wrote:

If Taubes is right, then what do I replace sugar in all my foods/drinks with?

Woody Allen, back when he was still funny explained it well, in Sleeper.
Woodys doctors talking in the far future.

Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."

Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.

Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?

Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.

Dr. Melik: Incredible.

 

[Tony]

I was at the Gary Taubes lecture Grant presented in Walnut Creek about 6 years ago. One of the first comments at the Q&A was "But I LIKE apple pie". Taubes replied along the lines of - consider it like smoking; you know smoking is bad for you, but it is your decision to smoke or not. Mark Sisson puts a small pinch of sugar in his coffee, Peter Attia does endurance bike rides even though he knows it puts him at risk for atrial fib. 

Tony

[Jim D Massachusetts]

+1 on the honey.             Jim D           Massachusetts

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 5:52:32 PM UTC-5, ericf3 wrote:

Honey is great in tea, yum

It is in my cuppa lapsang souchong right now

Eric

Vancouver

[Stephen Kemp]

You can't base your thinking on one example. This woman started smoking at 17 and lived to 112. Does that debunk the "smoking is bad for you" fad?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/woman-aged-112-says-secret-7246844

[Ryan Fleming]

I think you're right about getting used to it...just gradually  wean yourself off sugar in your tea

I gave up soft drinks in my late teens and I don't care for energy drinks  either. I used to sugar my coffee in my teens; now I just add whole milk to it. More rigorous labelling is certainly required; it's the hidden sugars that are the killers..or maybe just mindlessly consuming sugar that's the problem. Hard when it's in so many condiments on a lot of folks' tables, though

I do like chocolate occasionally....I like cold cereal but not sugary cereals , however my plain Quaker  Muffets  usually have a few raisins in them 

There is  an awful lot of contradictory health and diet information out there ; that's for sure...

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 6:54:09 PM UTC-6, Tim Butterfield wrote:

For hot tea, no sugar is needed once you get used to it.  I occasionally put in a little honey if I'm desperate for sweetener or fighting off a cold, but I usually have hot tea straight.  This is for hot black teas and white teas, not just the flavored kinds.  I normally drink Dragon Black Pearl tea, getting 3-5 individual cups steeped from two pearls.  You could also try steeping with a cinnamon stick for some flavor or add the juice from 1/4 of a lemon.  For cold teas, which I do not often have living now in the PNW, I still prefer those sweetened, but that could just be habit from living in the south for a long time.  Some stevia might work also though I have not really investigated it.

Tim

[masmojo]

I do think sugar is probably better to avoid, but there are so many worse things. It's all about moderation.
As for most of the "diets" out there, I think if you stick with them you would see results, but it's so much better to NOT diet! Just change your lifestyle & eating habits. In other words change the way you live including how you eat & you are more likely to see lasting results.
People are always looking for the quick fix! Thing is most of these "diets" Paleo, high fat, low carb. Typically involve eliminating whole groups of food. No dairy, no grains, no starchy carbs, etc. Yeah, if you eliminate a large portion of the food stuffs available to you, you cut down potential calorie intake purely by omission. That in itself should stimulate weight loss, because you are in essence depriving/starving yourself. Problem with this sort of thing is it is so easy to fall off the wagon (as they say).

[Scott McLain]

I put a little Truvia brand sweetener in my yogurt I eat every morning.  It is a combination of stevia and xylitol.  The truvia in the packets seams to dissolve a little better than from the container.

Say what you want about Taubes, my blood sugar and blood cholesterol have both improved year over year by following the diet in DJEBGL.

More on yogurt.  I have a hard time finding whole milk Greek yogurt, so I add a 1/8 to a 1/4 cup of cream to low-fat yogurt.  My favorite low-fat yogurt is Fage.  I have dialed my sweetener back to where I can now take yogurt at an unsweetened level that my dog won't even eat.

Scott

[Bill Lindsay]

Scott lamented that there are few choices in high-fat, low sugar yogurt.  

My Trader Joes now has whole milk cream-top plain yogurt.  I was super happy to see high fat, low sugar yogurt on the shelf.  It's a staple now.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

Mountain High is available in many of my local chain grocery stores, and available in the all important unflavored and non non-fat and non low fat "Original" version. Low fat yogurts are almost a oxymoronic as "low fat" half and half.

I often make my own, from whole milk of course (sometimes adding a bit of half and half);  it's very easy. The NYT had an easy to follow recipe once upon a time. 

And here it is!

Patrick "high fat plus lots of sugar! Mmmmm!" Moore

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By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.

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****************************************************************************************

The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world revolves.) Carthusian motto

It is we who change; He remains the same. Eckhart

Kinei hos eromenon. (It moves [all things] as the beloved.) Aristotle

[Ray Varella]

I'm not sure how wide it's distribution is, Brown Cow whole milk yogurt is not homogenized and gets a nice layer of fat on top that can either be stirred in or eaten by itself.
It's been my favorite yogurt for nearly 40 years.
I'm pretty sure they make the yogurt for Trader Joe's which Bill referenced.

As for sweetening coffee and teas, lots of them are very sweet on their own. Whole leaf teas are full of nuanced flavors which get masked when you add nothing to them.

Coffee as well. Coffee has about twice the flavonoids of wine and there are vendors who go to great lengths to source small lot, estate grown coffees of single origin.
I've been homeroasting my own coffee for well over a decade and would never drink it any way but black.
Coffees roasted at home far surpass anything you can buy on the open market.
Green beans stay fresh for at least 6 months prior to roasting.

The list of adjectives to describe the nuanced flavors would make any wine drinker take notice.

Green beans cost less than retail roasted coffee.
They can be roasted in about 7 minutes in a hot air popcorn popper.

Ray
Vallejo CA

[Les Lammers]

If you live long enough you will die from something. :-)

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 5:44:03 PM UTC-5, lum gim fong wrote:

My question was partially a joke, as many people say not to consume something or face the tragic consequences.

Modern western nutrition advice is like a never ending, flowing field of ever changing zeitgeists.

Hard to sort through it all to see what is really true about nutrition.

Hi fat, low fat, no sugar, coffee causes cancer, oops... now it doesn't! Who's backing which research, etc. Broccoli causes cancer,, whoops, now it doesn't...

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Whiskey

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 11:32:00 PM UTC+2, Hugh Smitham wrote:

Not everyone will benefit from a low carb diet. Yes people with diabetes or those on the fringe of developing type 2 should restrict their starch intake. 

I have a Kidney disease and have cut out all animal meat. I limit my carb intake but by no means intend to cut carbs entirely. 

I like to modify the old adage "Physician heal thyself"  to simply know thyself, heal thyself. 

~Hugh  

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 1:22 PM, <olof...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bill wrote:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/gary-taubes-is-a-blowhard/amp/

Maybe Gary Taubes isn't right.

Me: Maybe not, not always. That´s why he took the initiative to start NuSI (the nutrition science initiative; nusi.org ) to support research in the subject. The author of the link above however is just a person - although in the nutrition field - who took offence that Taube critized a study in a blog entry without going deep inte the subject, instead directing the reader to Zoe Harcombes critique, and answered by insinuating in the link above that Taubes just had invented his field to sell snake-oil to feed his family. Not a substantial claim of his own, just a condescending statement that Zoe H was nowhere to find and problably had bought her license for £30 on the net (ZH is a wellknown PhD from Cambridge and researcher).

Frankly, the blogauthor seems to me to be an entrenched traditionalist with much thought of his own and lazy to that.

Cheers, and may I direct you to https://www.dietdoctor.com/ if you want to know more

Olof Stroh
Uppsala Sweden

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[Mark in Beacon]

Or even if you don't...;-)

I buy the full fat versions of Seven Stars at the local market (not available out West), or Stonyfield at the supermarket (I believe they may be nationally distributed.)