Quickbeam: A Three Year Retrospective

[Deacon Patrick]

Photos and drippings of ooze for one of my two favorite bicycles!
http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/quickbeam-sightings/

With abandon,
Patrick

www.OurHolyConception.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

[Ryan Fleming]

Nice write-up  and pictures of both your  rivendells

[Eric Norris]

Deacon:

I think you would really enjoy a 3-speed IGH on your Quickbeam. It's easy to set up--let me know if you need any advice.

--Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

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[ascpgh]

Nice. Sometimes hard to describe riding away from pavement to folks who believe a "road" bike is for road use or great punishment and opprobrium will ensue.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Eric. My gear range is nearly identical, IIRC. I have a 22t on the flip/flop, giving me a bailout gear, which I rarely use. And the extra weight and maintenance vs. what I have now, I don't see the benefit. Is there one I'm missing?

With abandon,

Patrick

[JohnS]

Wow DP! I love my QB, but I don't think I would ever be able to put it to words as you have. Excellent!

JohnS

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 3:06:03 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Deacon (or is it Patrick?), it's good to have your gentle soul around these parts again. I can't speak for Eric, but I can appreciate his enthusiasm for a 3-speed hub. Of course you're right about added weight and complexity, but I would probably go that direction with a Quickbeam so I had easier access to all the gears. Knowing me, I would hardly ever stop to shift the wheel and chain. If you're adept at it and use that feature, then you probably don't need an IGH.

Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Joe. For me, manual shifting is a feature not a bug. I love it. Part of the rhythm of a Quickbeam ride is the leisurely shift. Part of the gift of living in the mountains is you're either going up or down. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick, who is a Catholic deacon and among many things is called Deacon Patrick, which ended up catching on round these parts. Grin.

[Patrick Moore]

And I have one for sale that might work!

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Eric Norris <campyo...@me.com> wrote:

Deacon:

I think you would really enjoy a 3-speed IGH on your Quickbeam. It's easy to set up--let me know if you need any advice.

--Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 12:05 PM, Deacon Patrick <lamon...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> Photos and drippings of ooze for one of my two favorite bicycles!
> http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/quickbeam-sightings/
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.OurHolyConception.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>
>
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Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

****************************************************************************************

The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world revolves.) Carthusian motto

It is we who change; He remains the same. Eckhart

Kinei hos eromenon. (It moves [all things] as the beloved.) Aristotle

[RichS]

Now that's a bike review. Poetic. In the third pic I love the juxtaposition of your QB and it's skinny tubes with the tall skinny trees.

Nice to have you back DP!

Regards,

Richard

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 3:06:03 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Jim D Massachusetts]

Nice! Thanks                  Jim D               Massachusetts

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 3:06:03 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[alan lavine]

Beautiful!  Is the rear wheel bolt on, requiring a wrench to change gears?  Would a QR skewer work?

I have aTrek 620 1983 frame getting powder coated and I might try this set-up, but I'm not sure I would wrench to change gears.

Alan

NYC

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 3:06:03 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

I use a 8-speed era XT skewer on my 2003 Riv, and it holds very well. The '99 gofast has a classy NOS 7400 something DA skewer. It also holds well.

For that matter, the couple of times I used them on the S3X hub, with considerable climbing (= torque), the Sturmey Archer wingnuts also didn't slip.

You must use an all steel, internal cam-type QR, though; the external cam ones won't hold, particularly if they are made from aluminum.

As to wrenches: I cut about 1/3 or 1/2 off of the open end part of an inexpensive 15 mm combo wrench, and use my toe to get the nuts tight and to get them loosened for removal. Much easier to carry than a full-length combo.

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[Deacon Patrick]

Allen wrench because it's a Paul rear hub. Being leisurely, shifting takes a minute, usually at a place I'd stop anyway. No biggie.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Alan LaVine]

Your toe?!  You must work out a lot.

Sent from my iPhone

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[alan lavine]

Forgot to ask: what size chainrings and cogs do you use?

Alan

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 3:06:03 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

It's a strong toe. I meant: the short lever is hard to use with the hand, but using the toe of my shoe, I have no problems with it.

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[Patrick Moore]

Commuter: 48 X 17/19 Dingle.

Gofast: 46 X 15 cruising, flip side 17. 

With 24.75" tires (Elk Passes), I get 70 and 63 for the commuter (well, I don't commute, but errand bike) and 76" and 67" for the gofast. 

Dahon: 50 X 14 = 68", with -- I think; haven't used it - a 16 fixed on the fw side.

I do use QRs for the Rivs, but for the folder I use a cut down 15 mm wrench.

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[Alan Lavine]

So I gather that with a single chainring, shifting between the two rear cogs is within the tolerance of chain deflection. If I wanted 2 chainrings, the difference in tooth count must be the same up front as in the rear, to avoid moving the rear axle position in the dropouts….is this correct?  Is standard double chainring spacing the same as the rear Dingle spacing?

This is starting to sound very attractive to me!

Thanks,

Alan

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[Patrick Moore]

Alan: let me draw you in to the turgid mysteries of ss/fixed gear riding.

Really, it's not that complicated. First, you get a lot more difference in gear ratio from each tooth difference in your rear cogs than you do with each tooth difference in your chainrings, so it makes sense to do you "shifting" at the rear. 

Can anyone say why Riv set up the Quickbeam with 2 chainrings instead of 2 cogs? It doesn't make sense to me.

Second, a wee bit of chain deflection isn't going to matter -- this from someone who obsessively sets up his derailleur gears so that his cruising gears always  have a straight chain. This is especially true with modern bushingless chains that are meant to be run askew. 

As long as the chain line from ring to cog isn't off by a huge amount, you'll be fine, as long as your cog isn't a Hyperglide cog, which is ramped and so forth to encourage the chain to derail when the chain is at an angle. The Dingle uses square-cut teeth.

The gap between 2 teeth on a Dingle is very small, which is why you need to use a 9 speed chain -- an 8 speed rubs slightly on the adjacent cog. 

As for axle movement, sure, you can adjust the chainrings up as you adjust the cogs down -- eg, if you shift from a 17 t cog to a 19, you can also swap from a 44 to a 42; but that just complicates things to no purpose, IMO. If your bike has long axle slots, either long horizontals or "track ends" (distinction made to placate Sheldon's ghost), you'll find that very little for-aft axle movement accommodates a great number of teeth. The figure quoted is 1/8" of fore/aft axle movement for each change in cog teeth, so that a 4 tooth jump would move the axle only 1/2". 

[There is a complication: if, when choosing your desired gear, that is, your desired combination of ring and cog you find your axle near one end of the dropout, your usable axle movement may be far less than this theoretical rule. This is particularly true if your axle slots are short, as are those on my Riv gofast -- they used their at-the-time standard "short horizontal" dropouts.

This means that when I selected my desired gear -- 46/15 or 49/16 or 52/17, all more or less 76" -- the axle was always either too close to the back end of the slot, or, if I removed a link -- 1/2" --, almost falling out of the dropouts. So your choice of gear, the length of your stays, and the type of dropouts, may severely limit your gearing choices despite this 1/8" to 1 tooth rule.

What I did: since a very tiny axle movement takes up quite a bit of chain slack, that meant that I could take 2-3 mm off the back of the dropouts with a big rattail file and end up with a far more usable setup -- the very slightly elongated dropouts can now take a 15 t cog with axle at the back of the slots, and a 21 to cog with the axle just barely in place at the front of the slots.]

If you have track ends or long horizontals, you have plenty of freedom. Just set up your chainline for a single cog, and don't worry about deflection if you use a 2-cog system. I once asked Phil about a custom fixed hub that would accommodate 3 standard track cogs; too expensive, but it would work fine with modern chains.

Note too: if your frame has track ends and these are not angled like horizontal dropouts but simply, well, horizontal, then if you move the wheel back or forth a great distance, your rear brake pads may not line up with the rim's brake tracks. I think that the Quickbeam has angled track ends, and of course all horizontal dropouts that I've seen are angled, so that in both cases moving the wheel back or forward ought to leave the brake pads properly on the rim brake tracks. Of course, if you are riding fixed, you don't need a rear brake.

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Alan Lavine <ciga...@gmail.com> wrote:

So I gather that with a single chainring, shifting between the two rear cogs is within the tolerance of chain deflection. If I wanted 2 chainrings, the difference in tooth count must be the same up front as in the rear, to avoid moving the rear axle position in the dropouts….is this correct?  Is standard double chainring spacing the same as the rear Dingle spacing?

This is starting to sound very attractive to me!

Thanks,

Alan

On Dec 17, 2016, at 10:36 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

Commuter: 48 X 17/19 Dingle.

Gofast: 46 X 15 cruising, flip side 17. 

With 24.75" tires (Elk Passes), I get 70 and 63 for the commuter (well, I don't commute, but errand bike) and 76" and 67" for the gofast. 

Dahon: 50 X 14 = 68", with -- I think; haven't used it - a 16 fixed on the fw side.

I do use QRs for the Rivs, but for the folder I use a cut down 15 mm wrench.

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 8:26 PM, alan lavine <ciga...@gmail.com> wrote:

Forgot to ask: what size chainrings and cogs do you use?

Alan

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 3:06:03 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

Photos and drippings of ooze for one of my two favorite bicycles! 
http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/quickbeam-sightings/ 

With abandon, 
Patrick 

www.OurHolyConception.org 
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org 

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

****************************************************************************************

The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world revolves.) Carthusian motto

It is we who change; He remains the same. Eckhart

Kinei hos eromenon. (It moves [all things] as the beloved.) Aristotle

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[Deacon Patrick]

Alan,

I have 32/40 front, 16/19 rear. I only run the high (outside) and low (inside) combinations. To Patrick of the Moors' question on why Grant went with front rather than rear for the difference, I can only speculate that dual cogs may not have been readily available at the time? The upshot for me is that I can maximize the spread and achieve roughly the same high low ratios (with my 22t cog on the flip hub) as a IGH 3-speed, all within the range of the 8-tooth spread the rear dropouts allow. My high gear has a combined 56t, my low gear has 51, so with a spread of only 5t I have a gear inches spread from 40ish to 70ish. Not bad range for a single speed. Grin. See Sheldon's gear calculator chart attached.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Alan Lavine]

Thanks to all for the good info.  I will be using a 126 mm FW wheel,not flip flop, and wanted some gear choices while avoiding the usual derailers and 6 spd FW. Will probably go with a single chainring and dingle in the back. I don’t ride off road so its sufficient to have a mid 60” for the city and climbs, and low to mid 70” for go fast.

Thanks again!

Alan

NYC

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[lum gim fong]

Single speeds are cool but seems like most people add gears to them.

[Deacon Patrick]

Ha! There is a sweet-spot which few bikes hit between the simplicity of single speed and the reality that three speeds open up riding on anything that is ridable. For me, the Quickbeam hits that sweet-spot and has invited and challenged and encouraged and coached me to becoming a better, stronger, more flexible rider.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Kai Vierstra]

I used to have the 40x32 up front with a 16x19 in back, and on my Brooklyn/Westchester/Brooklyn commute I switched out of 40x16 once, promptly switching back. So I ditched the 32 and have an unused 19 on my W.I. Dos freewheel. So, in my experience pedaling the Quickbeam around NYC, having too many options just complicated things. You'll be surprised what you can do with the single speed on a climb, not being able to shift/second guess where you're at, just pedaling, purely.
-Kai Vierstra
Brooklyn NY

[Matt B.]

I completely agree Patrick. The QB can transform a grown man into a kid on a BMX bike in the woods.  40/16 is a great gear for getting around and even stretching your legs on longer rides, but when you get to the woods taking a few seconds to "digital" shift down to 32/22 or 40/22 puts you right in the sweet spot for bumpy roller coaster trails. 

[BSWP]

I've had my QuickBean loaded for light camping (EntMoot!) and it rode like a champ, from SF Ferry building, up over the bridge, through Marin hills, to campsite, and back. It challenges me to be extra fit, and that's a good thing, I don't mind at all. It truly is a state of mind one adopts, when going out with just one, or maybe two, gears... but many speeds :-)

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Patrick Moore]

That's a good spread of gears. Question : why do you use the big ring only with the small cog, and the small ring with big cog only? That 58" gear seems to me to be very useful.

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[Patrick Moore]

If anyone cares to try a S3X hub, I have one -- 126 mm OL, but will work fine with a 130 and probably 135 spacing, too -- that I am eager to sell. 32 hole. Inquire within.

Others think differently, but I prefer to use this hub with a freehwheel, not a fixed cog -- too much lash. I have another with a 17 t freewheel for the 2003 Riv.

[Deacon Patrick]

No need (for middlin'). Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Patrick Moore]

Of course, your terrain is much more up and down than mine.

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[Evan E.]

Deacon Patrick,

I love this line of yours: "Grant Petersen's Quickbeam is always comfortable, never comforting, always challenging, always enlivening. . . " Sounds great! My old Raleigh Competition, converted to single speed, offers similar rigor and reward.

Evan Elliot

SF, CA

[Patrick Moore]

Photos required.

What gear?

[Daniel D.]

Sometimes my eyes glaze over when I hear singlespeed/fixed gear riders talking about riding usually around the part they talk about being freed from thinking so much:p.   But I keep on checking out that quickbeam for sale in my area... 

[Patrick Moore]

Me, I think constantly about my ss gearing choices. Constantly!

Patrick "good syntax is good thinking" Moore, in eye rolling ABQ, NM.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Daniel D. <dddo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sometimes my eyes glaze over when I hear singlespeed/fixed gear riders talking about riding usually around the part they talk about being freed from thinking so much:p.   But I keep on checking out that quickbeam for sale in my area... 

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[Deacon Patrick]

Ha! More thought went into my gear choices that I can to even try to remember. Now, I don't really think about them, though I've obviously kept my notes (thank you Evernote!) which helps when folks ask me gearing questions. However, the experience in riding is No thought goes into gearing because I only have two gear choices and I'm either going up or down. Until you experience the freedom of that, it is really hard to understand. Like you, I was puzzled and intrigued from the outside, until I was on the inside. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[ctifusion]

Deacon,

Thanks for both posts. Sitting at home on a cold day reading about riding when I should have just suited up and went out!

This post inspires me to write up a similar retrospective on my Quickbeam. I've had mine for 10 years and it is the most beautiful, fun, and inspiring bike I've ever owned. Always makes me happy. This year I put those Barlow Pass tires on it and was transformed again by the ride.

I hate to admit after all the interesting gear discussion that, being in Indianapolis, I just run mine single speed. Can't tell you the ratio, just a little harder than it should be so I can cruise the flats here.

Brynnar

[Deacon Patrick]

Brynnar,

Perfect!

With abandon,

Patrick

[Ryan Fleming]

I could tell you the chainring/rear cog combo on my SS PX-10....but it's so wimpy I'd be too embarrassed :) ...but what I can tell you is that I love the silent drivetrain and  in a windy city , it demands more out of me than access to gears. ActuallyI admit  it's  36 X 20 combo 700c wheels. My old knees prefer spinning to grinding so it works OK for me. Quickbeams are in  the category of shoulda bought one of those...I've always liked them. But my old Peugeot is pretty sweet too.