I have questions

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I have had some of the same questions tumbling about in my brain as I wait for the last of the parts for my Gravel & Travel Platy. I just got back from a warm and delightful weekend of cycling in Philadelphia. I, a newly minted Michigander, was happy to return to the shire, and for that, I was welcomed with Second Winter. 

Michigan is over here, doing me dirty. 

I’m prevailing upon you to humor me and answer my questions, because a lot of you are having spring and flowers and sunshine, so this is the least you could do!

I got the 50 cm Platy to take on trips. Will fit in the van better, will fit on Amtrak, be easier to shove in elevators, that sort of thing. But the tires I have on hand are 48 mm Gravel Kings. They are almost new. I’m considering taking a train to a ride this summer, but that means no Racing Platypus, only the purple one can fit. Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace? I have 42 on all my other bikes. Would 48s be slow? The ride is a 2 day event, 100 miles total. I’d like to keep the tires if I could, because they’re new and they are fat enough to also double as gravel tires, should I decide to do a gravel ride again. But I do more road rides than anything else, and if those 48s will cripple me, I’ll go back to 42s. What’s the consensus?

Basket straps. I have the Nitto Basket Rack and even though I’ve disliked it in the past, I figure it’s pretty and I already own it and I might need a front rack for travel. But do I really have to put the ugly strap from bar to basket? Is the Nitto Basket Rack safer than the Mark’s Rack? I know Sergio was thrown when his Mark’s Rack loosened and hit the front tire and he’s missing significant chunks of front teeth! What is everyone doing about their front racks?

Lights. I have an Edelux light. It’s not the right color for this build, but it’s perfectly good. But sometimes I think, “wouldn’t it be nice to have a light that would charge your phone?” The Sinewave Beacon 2 will do just that, but it sounds like it’s not a great road light. What are people using to charge phones on long rides away from home?

I ordered my wheels today. This, because J at the Velocity booth in Philly talked me into them when he heard about the theme of my build. Here’s a sneak peek.

And thanks for helping me out here! It’s good to hear people’s experiences and points of view!

Leah

[Jay]

Those are really nice looking wheels and I, and I'm sure everyone, looks forward to seeing the final build.

I was going to comment briefly about tires, though I've only got a handful of years on large volume tires on the road (before I was strictly a roadie, with 25mm's).  I don't feel a big difference going from 25 to 30, I do feel a difference going up to a 43 (GKSS).  What's interesting is I don't feel a huge difference going from 43 to 55.  In the last few weeks alone I've had a chance to ride all the bikes and wheels/tires I have, and this was my observation about tires as I was thinking about this during and after the rides.  "Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace?"  If you can do this on a 42, comfortably, I think you can do so on a 48 (maybe play with the pressure a bit, to get what works best for speed/comfort balance).  I used the 43's on a ride with my speedy friend a month ago and I kept up, felt pretty comfortable (particularly on descents), but I had to work harder...so I would also recommend a good fuelling strategy for your 2-day event.  Good luck!

Weather :-( I'm just outside Toronto and we're getting second (first?) winter here since Saturday.  I know how you feel.  And the forecast doesn't look great for next 1-2 weeks.  I'm getting out on the 55 tires more, pumping them based on conditions and appreciating I have them and these wider tire bikes, or I would be stuck on the trainer with a road bike (yuck).

[Johnny Alien]

Depends on the tires too. An overbuilt robust 42 will feel slower than a fairly supple 48. So if you are comparing a 48 to a 42 rene Herse tire it might feel a bit slower. I like GK and I think they roll pretty smooth. I can't remember if they have different "toughness" levels. I think you will be happy with them. I would personally for sure use those tires for that application.

[Leif Eckstrom]

Hey, Leah, 

I don’t think you’ll have to worry about keeping up or pace for that particular 2-day ride. It’s flat (no real hills) and mostly a laid-back ride at your own pace. That said, some folks will be riding quicker than others and you will find folks to ride with at any pace. Will you have Michigan club rides starting up before June to try out the 48s with a faster pace group?

On the basket rack safety issue, you could possibly do a more permanent belt and suspenders approach with an extra set of 2 daruma bolts and 2 extra stays attached to the mid-fork braze ons, which would replace the backup safety feature of the strap. That way you’d have attachment points at fork crown, mid fork eyelets and drop out eyelets. 

As to maybe the other question of are belts and suspenders really necessary?: it’s hard to answer for other people. Making sure bolts are tight and inspecting fork crown attachment for damage before big rides or on a maintenance schedule could help relieve some of those anxieties. I get rivs cautions about being thrown by jammed fenders or failing rack attachments: you’d never choose to have these things happen to you, so why not add some extra fail-safes. 

Best, 

Leif in Chicago 

[Drew Fitchette]

Hey Leah, 

Seconding Leif on the Basket comment. I used the Sim Works Obento Rack on my Atlantis and connected it at 3 points(fork crown, mid fork, and drop out) which gave me piece of mind when I had my Basket/Basket bag full of groceries or camping gear. 

I've swapped to a marks rack now and similarly use 3 connecting points. 

Drew in ATL

[Patrick Moore]

The 60 mm Schwalbe Big Ones that used to be on my dirt road Matthews were among the very fastest-rolling tires I've used, including various "racing" tires and 2 extralight RH models. I'd say that the right 48 mm tire will roll plenty fast. 

I've not used any Gravel Kings.

Patrick "it's not my tires that make me slow" Moore

On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 7:10 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

... Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace? I have 42 on all my other bikes. Would 48s be slow? The ride is a 2 day event, 100 miles total. I’d like to keep the tires if I could, because they’re new and they are fat enough to also double as gravel tires, should I decide to do a gravel ride again. But I do more road rides than anything else, and if those 48s will cripple me, I’ll go back to 42s. What’s the consensus?

[J]

You don't say which Gravel King model you are using, but I see in your Philly post that you have Ultradynamico Cava tires on your bike. So maybe you run the file tread GK? Anyhow, I rode through 2 sets of 700x42 Gravel King SK on my old Sam Hillbourne before moving up to 700x50 which just barely fit. I thought I'd notice a big difference but it turned out not to be true, as long as I kept the air pressure up. I only have 650b bikes now, and don't ride Gravel King SK after discovering the Rene Herse file tread much smoother and faster "feeling". I've switched back and forth from 42 and 48mm RH file treads as well as 42 Gran Bois and have settled on 48mm RH (Switchback Hill) which measures quite a bit over 48mm on my wheels. The 42mm tires gave the perception that I was faster but the strava data did not corroborate, and the 48mm have so much lovely float over gravel compared to anything narrower or with tooth, I figured why bother? YMMV but I think 48s won't be an issue. If my words sway you at all towards RH, just keep in mind that they are not great in wet conditions with steep descents combined with rim brakes. I learned this twice this fall, and kept RH knobbies on until a few days ago. 

mysterious J

[JohnS]

Will has Mark's alternate safety strap in this email news letter, scroll down to "Mark's safety cable". Looks like a good solution since the cable housing protects the bike frame from the cable.

https://us7.campaign-archive.com/?u=ad1569fa93a2ab2374ead2fde&id=279bef4181

As far as 650B tires go, I recommend Rene Herse Babyshoe Pass 42mm width tire, extra light casing. They are great for mixed surface rides; road and hard packed gravel or cinder such as a rail trail. As mentioned already, they are not so good in mud where they can get squirmy and can loose traction. I have them on my Crust Lightening Bolt canti which is my bike for long rides and mixed surfaces. I have Gravel King SK tires on my gravel bike. They are a very good tire and I use that bike for more challenging gravel rides where the surface can be looser and the trails are more like mountain bike single track.

Good luck,

JohnS

[Jason Fuller]

The actual speed difference between a similar quality 48mm and a 42mm will be extremely small - I wouldn't sweat it at all! Probably like 0.1 mph difference. Most of the perceived difference is all in our heads, based on the squish-factor and the buzz they make on pavement, neither of which necessarily relate to speed. I would simply air them up to the same pressure you run on your 42mm tires for the speedy rides. The Gravel King is a reasonably quick tire, no concerns there to me. 

There is no definitive answer on the strap, since it's about risk tolerance, but with the higher load limit of the basket rack as well as the fact that most of the structure is welded with just that little adjustable bit at the bottom ... I would not run a strap with it. I don't think it would fall into the front tire the same way as the small racks do when they fail, plus it's less likely to fail in the first place. It's always a good idea to occasionally check that all the rack fixing bolts are tight, in any case. 

Sorry to hear about Second Winter, as indeed the cherry blossoms are upon us here in Vancouver! 

[George Schick]

A few respondents to this thread have referred to "inflation" (and I don't mean these horrible price increases we're undergoing), J and Jay...maybe it's J&J...I used to take my truck to a transmission repair service by that name and they did a poor job of serving, but I digress.  Anyway, inflation and pressure matter a great deal.  I run 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires on my Surly 1x1 and if I haven't ridden it for a while and the pressure gets down to 20 lbs or so they feel like I'm riding on wheels with foam pipe insulation glued to the rims; OTOH if I pump them up to 35 lbs (the range recommended on the tire sidewalls) they respond like an overinflated basketball that bounces 6ft. when dribbling.  IOW, it's good to experiment with various inflation pressures when making the decision whether or not a certain tire is a good or bad performer.  Having said that, if one rides primarily on smooth roads vs. gravel paths vs. off-road trails it would make sense to pick the tire with minimal tread (or smooth) for regular riding. 

[Patrick Moore]

Agree, tho' IME a 48 mm tire will require considerably less pressure than a 42. I'm 170-175 and put ~35 psi in 42s but only 20 in 48s (that measure 50 on my rims); this for pavement riding, very supple tires. A lighter rider can use less.

Jan has shown (and my Big Ones also show) that width does not necessarily affect rolling resistance. What width does do, IME, is reduce the "nimbleness" of handling.

[Patrick Moore]

To take into account George's experience: I do use widish rims for the 48s/50s: 27 mm IW Velocity Blunt SS's. But at 20 the Soma SV SLs handle wonderfully on pavement. I agree that as the tires get fatter and the pressures lower, small pressure differences make a big difference in handling. 

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[DavidP]

Jumping on the "48s are fine" bandwagon: I have a roadish "gravel" bike with 650x48s (22mm inner width rims, Panaracer Pari-Moto rear, RH Juniper Ridge front) - it's plenty quick on pavement despite not being a dedicated paved road bike. At ~160lbs, I run 30psi.

The 650b wheels on the 50cm Platypus will reduce the gyroscopic effect when compared with a 700x48 tire, and you get you back some of the "nimbleness" Patrick mentioned that can be lost with wider tires. You may notice the 650x48 handles more nimbly than your 700x42 Platypus (the reduced wheelbase will have an effect as well).

-Dave

[Collin A]

SON is supposed to be releasing a light that has a charger and has a "high beam" function in "Spring 2024"

Update: New version of the Edelux USB-FL – SON Hub Dynamos (nabendynamo.de)

I'll be eager to try it out when it gets released...

Collin in Berkeley

[Leah Peterson]

COLLIN. Thank you SO much. Problem solved, and this is what I’ll get!

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 20, 2024, at 11:49 PM, Collin A <collinm...@gmail.com> wrote:

SON is supposed to be releasing a light that has a charger and has a "high beam" function in "Spring 2024"

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[Garth]

Yes, use the 48 tires you already have. A 42 would classify as a "marginal gain". What's overlooked in all this talk of weights and rolling resistance is the aerodymanic drag from the rider. Above 10 mph aero drag increases dramatically, whereas the rolling resistance of a tire rises only marginally. Even the weight of the wheels/bike doesn't have as much effect as the aerodymics. Weight only starts to drag in constant accelerations or in increasing grades of road. Riding position alone can greatly affect aero drag, as does the type of clothing. Loose, floppy clothing is a huge wind catcher. A large basket on the front, wind catcher. Riding with lower drop bars and non-floppy clothing will by far have a greater benefit in terms of energy loss from the invisible wind-wall than even the "fastest" tire. It's not easy to look at this because it's not something you can just put in a numerical value that anyone can relate to. You can feel it riding though. So for those riders not familiar with genuine racing and the bikes involved, they're designed very purposefully to minimize the riders bodily air resistance, plus minimize the effort required to keep the bike going. You don't have to be a "racer" to enjoy this either. 

So while I'm not suggesting Leah do anything dramatic like changing to drop bars and such right now, I can see it happening if she finds she really enjoys riding such events. I get the idea of "I did it my way" and all that, just because you ride a drop bar and wear non-floppy clothing doesn't mean you lose any part of your identity, because that has nothing to do with what you ride or wear or do, it's not dependent on certain "conditions".

😊 It's unconditional. And that's that. 

This is the Way ...... 😉

[Peter Adler]

This sounds very interesting; sort of an updated version of the B&M Luxos U, with a higher power collection from the dynamo, brighter standard and highbeam lights (have LEDs improved that much in the last decade? I know that batteries have), and a MagSafe-type connecter for USB peripherals. The ability to run the light and charge a USB device simultaneously - that's huge.

I trust you'll report back when you've tried one out. Being a neighbor and a gadget cheapskate, I hope I'll get the chance to see it in action before I buy a $200+ headlight. But this could address a lot of problems.

Peter "доверяй, но проверяй" Adler

Berkeley, California/USA

[Max S]

Leah, 

Coupla questions back to you... 

1) is the travel set-up going to use fenders? 

2) do you need the front bag, or could you get away with just a saddlebag, and/or bar bag strapped to the handlebars? 

- Max "simplicate, simplicate, simplicate" in A2

[Noah Swartz]

I haven't read all of the replies, so forgive me if this was covered before, but I thought I'd add:

* I rode 48mm tires (RH switchback on Velocity Blunt SS) on PBP and completed under 84 hours, so I'd say you can definitely still ride with 48mm tires - especially if you're only doing 50 miles a day. In fact I rode almost all of my rides last year on those wheels/tires - including 50 brevets. I found it really nice to have just one set of wheels/tires that I could ride all of my rides on - from social group road rides to fun gravel adventures. My other bike only fits 42s, but I can't tell if the difference in speed/effort is a result of the tire width or the overall weight of the bike, but the tire width has never prevented me from completing a ride.

* It's true that the Edulux II won't directly charge via USB - though I believe there are some stemcap chargers you can connect. But I did want to note that there are now purple Edulux IIs! You can get them directly from Peter White if you email - soon they will also have purple hubs :)

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[Leah Peterson]

Max,

1. Yes. I try to live without them. I never can.

2. I need a Randi Jo bag on the stem/bar. I was planning to put the front rack on because I have it and because it might be useful for travel. I’ll also have a rear rack that can take the Backabike Bags. This bike is kind of set up for multiple things, I guess… 

The bags would be sent with the support vehicles for the 2 day Chicago-New Buffalo ride. I’d just have the bags on the bike until I got to the ride.

Does that make sense?

On Mar 21, 2024, at 4:36 PM, Max S <msh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leah, 

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[Max S]

Hmm... 

1. Fenders – if you have enough clearance with 48s with the fenders on there now, no problem. If anything, 42 might increase the gap to the point of being less useful / aesthetically pleasing?.. Dunno. But mostly I was wondering which type of fenders you're using. If metal, consider that the front usually is best when fixed at 3 points – bottom, fork crown, and front/top. If you have a rack, then the front/top of the fender usually can be bolted to the bottom of the rack. If no rack, consider running a second set of fender stays over the front. 

2. Bags – fewer is better, IMO, and large panniers or a saddlebag is prob. easier to deal with on a trip than a bunch of smaller ones. Again, ATMO. Front vs. rear – per item 1 above, if using a front rack to hold the fender, then consider how the rack might end up down on the tire... The propensity to collapse downward really depends on how sturdy the struts are and how the struts are fixed to the fork and to the rack. Draw / daruma bolts are not my favorite way to secure the struts to the front rack, because vibrations can loosen them over time, and the draw bolt will slide down along the strut. One way to reduce the probability of that happening is to really crank on the nut of the draw bolt, so that the latter "bites" into the strut. Another way is to carefully pre-bend the strut just below the spot where the draw bolt will be tightened. The strap that Riv uses is a good precaution, but generally, a braised / welded strut on the front rack is a better configuration – e.g., Nitto M12, NF21/22, 32F, 34F, F20, etc. are generally better than Mark's Rack / M1, M18 for any front load over 5 lbs. 

- Max "it's all greek innit?" in A2

[Ted Durant]

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 8:10:14 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

 Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace?

Yes. I have Rene Herse 48mm tires on my Breadwinner G-Road, Gravel King (smooth) 48mm on West Coast Sam, and Ultradynamico 48mm tires on East Coast Sam, and 15-17mph is pretty much my normal pace on all of them. The Gravel Kings require only a bit more effort than the RH tires. The Ultradynamico tires require noticeably more effort, but it's not like they're boat anchors. I've done a couple of 20mph rides on the Breadwinner. My Rivendell Road recently went from 26 to 32mm (though they measure 29 on the skinny rims) tires. It's easier to ride at 20mph on that bike, but only marginally so. 

 

What are people using to charge phones on long rides away from home?

For my Breadwinner I spent a lot of time thinking about and designing a flexible generator-light-charging setup, and I'm very happy with the result. The coaxial wire from the hub ends in a quick-connector behind the fork crown. Normally my headlight (Supernova E3 pro 2) plugs into that, and the tail light plugs into the headlight. If I want to charge something, I have a Sinewave Revolution that can plug into the generator instead of the headlight. That leaves me without lights, but I also can plug the lights into a USB power source. Supernova says the lights won't run off a battery, but the 5v from the battery is more than enough. They aren't at their full brightness, but they are plenty bright for most conditions. I prefer having a headlight with a properly shaped beam (sorry, Beacon), and you can't really generate enough watts to run both a light and charge a phone, anyway. And besides, reasonably lightweight USB power sources are cheap and easy. The one I have is only a few ounces and can charge my phone 3x. And I can recharge it from my generator hub if I want. In fact, theoretically I can connect both the generator and the lights to the battery, and it will charge the battery as the battery is powering the lights. I haven't tested that to see if the generator makes enough power to run the lights and still add to the battery charge level.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Brian Turner]

Unless you’re riding at night in off-road situations, and need a big round beam blasted in front of you, I would not recommend the Sinewave Beacon. They’ve made upgrades to the Beacon II, but I have no experience with the new version - just the original one.  Also, I wouldn’t recommend it for the ability to charge via its built-in USB port. It’s built well, looks good, and does indeed put out the brightness, but I’m so much more happier with an Edelux or B&M IQ-X. They are plenty bright, are more consistently lit at slower speeds, and the beam pattern makes sense for all types of riding. For multi-day trips, I’m perfectly happy with carrying a charging brick for devices.

Brian

On Mar 22, 2024, at 11:51 AM, Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[John Dewey]

Hey, Ted…

Curious—what do you mean by ‘West Coast’ Sam?

Is that a bike you leave somewhere on the left coast? And if so…where? Bay area perchance?

Best / John Dewey

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[Ted Durant]

On Mar 22, 2024, at 12:12 PM, John Dewey <john...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey, Ted…

Curious—what do you mean by ‘West Coast’ Sam?

Is that a bike you leave somewhere on the left coast? And if so…where? Bay area perchance?

West Coast Sam is my stylish green Sam that was built at the Cub House in San Marino, LA area. He lives at my daughter’s house in San Gabriel.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[John Dewey]

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[Corwin Zechar]

Hi Leah -

I have been riding 40mm tires on my custom and 44mm tires on my Quickbeam and have noticed no difference in performance - only in comfort. I would imagine 48mm tires would be no worse in performance and slightly more comfortable.

Regarding the light and charging your phone - I have an Edelux II on my Hubbuhubbuhz. Given that my wife cannot be without her phone, we have a Sinewave Revolution wired directly to the Edelux II. This may eliminate the potential of wiring a taillight to the Edelux II - but we use rechargeable taillights; that's not a problem for us.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Corwin

[Max S]

Let me be a bit of a contrarian on the lighting situation. Is a dyno hub + phone charger worth the hassle?.. I am not sure. 

A dyno hub puts out a nominal 3 Watts. If you ride it for an hour, that's 3 watt-hours worth of electricity. Let's say it gets split between the light and your phone. If you ride continuously for 10 hours, that's about 30 watt-hours. Let's say half is used to power the light, half to power the phone... 

An iPhone 15 Pro has a 3,274 mA-hour / 12.70 watt-hr battery. So, half the energy from the dynamo will charge the phone about once. 

How large of a battery would hold that much electricity? Thanks to modern lithium ion polymer technology, a small power-bank like this one (about the thickness of the iPhone but fits in the palm of your hand) can recharge that phone ~1.5 times (implying it's got ~19 watt-hours of useful capacity). A slightly larger one (say about the size of the phone in a sturdy case) holds twice as much energy, and even incorporates a charging plug. It's easy to chuck into a bag, charge your phone off of it, use it as a wall plug in a hotel / on the train, etc.  You don't even need to muck around with wiring on the bike or a dyno hub at all. If you forego a dyno-powered light altogether, a battery powered headlight will have 6+ hrs of its own battery life, and can be charged off the portable battery. 

In case you don't want to muck around with wires and connectors and all that. But if someone's gonna do it all for you and anodize it nice colors, then by all means! :-) 

- Max "trying to unplug and plug it back in again" in A2

[Johnny Alien]

I actually forgot all about that. I had read a large and very nerdy article on this recently. The reason why this hasn't taken off is because its not really practical or efficient to charge a phone with the dynamo. Most phones have software that throttle low level charges like what you would get from a dynamo. I have been becoming a big fan of battery lights as well. They have so many lighting options and stay charged for a really long time. And battery packs are really easy to keep with you if you go longer. Easier than all of the wires and drag that a dynamo brings. BUT there is something to be said to always 100% having a light read to go if you need it.

[Jason Fuller]

ty I agree that charging devices via dynamo hub is not worth the trouble, expense, and risk (of damaging your devices from the variable current) when battery bricks are very economical and super convenient. I can charge my phone about five times over with my little battery brick that cost $40 a few years ago, whether on the road or in the cafe.  It lives in my bike bag so I never forget it. 

I am going to sow the seed now that the gravel & travel platy should run RH knobbies if no fenders - they are remarkably quick on pavement and a lifesaver on gravel and dirt. I run them on my Wombat which I ride on some challenging terrain and I've never felt the tires were a limiting factor yet! 

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[Joe Bernard]

Seconded on RH knobbies. I have them in 42mm and they're alarmingly nice on pavement whilst leaving some margin when I hit dirt and gravel spots (which is most pavement rides around here). 

[Ted Durant]

On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 6:55:19 PM UTC-5 Max S wrote:

A dyno hub puts out a nominal 3 Watts. If you ride it for an hour, that's 3 watt-hours worth of electricity. Let's say it gets split between the light and your phone. If you ride continuously for 10 hours, that's about 30 watt-hours. Let's say half is used to power the light, half to power the phone... 

I probably read the same long, nerdy article as Johnny A, and I think you’ll actually get less than half of that going to the phone (or whatever else you plugged in). That’s why I set up my system to be one or the other.  And, as Jason said, you actually can damage your phone because of the variable power output. I set up my system primarily so I can charge a power bank if needed … hopefully as I’m coasting down a nice long mountain descent  where I can convert all that potential energy into stored electrons. I also like the idea of being able to power the lights from the battery instead of the generator when I’m on a long climb. Every watt counts :-) But day in, day out, I like having the lights “always on” running off the generator.

[Ted Durant]

On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 9:21:01 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

Seconded on RH knobbies. I have them in 42mm and they're alarmingly nice on pavement whilst leaving some margin when I hit dirt and gravel spots (which is most pavement rides around here). 

I’m not quite as smitten with the RH knobbies. I run 48mm tires on my Breadwinner G-Road, and I find the knobbies to be just buzzy enough on pavement to detract a bit from the ride. Of course, that’s compared to smooth tread ultralights. If I ever take the bike where I expect there to be more dirt riding, though, I’d definitely bring the knobbies.

[Patrick Moore]

I have both dynamo lights and good battery lights and each have their advantages. But IME, with quite a few hub, bottle, and bb dynamos, good hub dynamos -- mid-level Shimano upward -- don't cause noticeable drag; at least, I don't notice it, and one of my systems is a hi-po K-Lite system which I always run on High. Bb dynamos are a wee bit noticeable but not horrible; and even cheap Sanyo bottles aren't that bad -- like riding into a modest headwind or up a very slight grade. They're not like Bart Simpson's dynamo.

And wires can be neatly tucked away; not really a problem if arranged properly.

I do always back up my dynamos with a good battery headlight, if only to use as a flashlight in the event of roadside repairs. (Tho' the capacitor of the Edeluxe I is pretty poor -- about 30 seconds bright, then another minute of dim light -- another reason for a good auxiliary battery lamp, for long intersections. The capacitor on the K-Lite -- in a separate box the size of a box of Marlboros -- will still be glowing dimly 150 minutes after you get home.)

Patrick Moore, who just rode home from church [first week in Lent] noticing no drag a-tall from his SON 20R and first-gen Edeluxe with 2 wired-in tail lights.

[Patrick Moore]

Jason: Which RH knobbies, pray? I just scored a near-new, Normal Casing pair of 622X48 (will be at least 50 on my rims) Oracle Ridges for $100 shipped, and Fat Tire Cycles will set them up tubeless on the new Velocity Blunt SS wheelset for a dirt-biased wheelset for the dirt road Matthews. The Soma Supple Vitesse SLs will remain on the original wheelset, for pavement-biased riding but capable of shallower sand. But if Oracle Ridges roll as well as RH claims for their knobbies, I may not have needed a second wheelset ...

Since my Kelpie fenders (a) were sized and sited for 60s, and so have at least an inch of clearance over 50s, and (b) are, sheet metal and stays, at least 50% thicker than your puny Honjos and Berthouds and VOs, I am going to risk Oracles and fenders.

Patrick Moore, who sped home from church just now on the very fast and lively Nachess Pass EL wheelset on the other Matthews.

On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 6:32 PM Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

... I am going to sow the seed now that the gravel & travel platy should run RH knobbies if no fenders - they are remarkably quick on pavement and a lifesaver on gravel and dirt. I run them on my Wombat which I ride on some challenging terrain and I've never felt the tires were a limiting factor yet! 

[Jason Fuller]

Patrick: I've run the Umtanum (650x55) in endurance casing, and have pals I ride with regularly on the full range basically - 650x42, 650x48, and 700x38 but all on the endurance casing. I plan to try the Extralight version next, but honestly the Endurance doesn't feel stiff nor heavy. Every one of my riding pals who've taken the plunge have been singing their praises loud and far, and seemingly everyone I ride with is going to them now as a result. 

I will agree that they are not particularly quiet on the road, even the claimed noise-cancelling models. They're not nearly as quiet as a Gravel King SK. I will say though that they have a pleasant enough tone, and that noise doesn't translate to slowness at all - coming to realize this is critical to enjoying them fully. Much like we're sort of pre-programmed to believe that the feedback of skinny tires translates to speed, even though we know better now, the same is true of the buzz from knobby tires. Thanks to Strava I can confidently say that I'm not appreciably slower on the RH knobbies, though if I don't need them I'd prefer the silence of the slicks. 

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[Leah Peterson]

I’m glad everyone knows all these things and then shares because I’m in need of it. I didn’t know you could damage your phone charging it in dyno. Will this be true even of the German master engineers at Schmidt when their new edelux hits the market? They say it charges 10 volts… Max, is that a better thing?

https://nabendynamo.de/en/new-edelux-headlight-with-high-beam-function-2/

I wouldn’t be opposed to the charging brick, either; I just hadn’t thought of it.

I’m happy to try these GK tires I’ve got since you all have assuaged my fears about being slow on 48s. 

I’ll reread the other replies and respond tomorrow. It’s late!

L

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2024, at 11:17 PM, Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Jason, I'm particularly heartened by "noise doesn't translate into slowness." I can live with pavement buzz.

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[Peter Adler]

Essentially, this was what Busch & Muller did with the Luxos U, which everyone but me seems to have disliked. It's one of the heaviest LED headlights of the last 15 years, specifically because there's a lithium battery inside the headlight enclosure. The dynamo charges up the battery, and then the battery allows a steady-level filtered power to the USB device and (I believe) both the head and tail lights. The headlight's stand light definitely comes off the internal battery, rather than from a capacitor; when I come into the house with my headlight on and wander away without switching it pff, it will sometimes stay lit for a few hours - which I often only notice when I'm switching off all the ceiling lights as I go to bed.

"Hey! That damn headlight's still on!"

The steady power supply eliminates the risk of damage to USB-chargeable computerish devices, or at least reduces the risk. It's the same as any other USB storage battery, although it's smaller than most external charging bricks.

I got a lot of experience using the charger in February-April 2020, just before and going into the pandemic. The Bay Area had a horrendous windstorm on February 9, with winds approaching 70 MPH near the Bay and 110-120 on the crest of the Berkeley Hills. Among other damage at my house (two large branches torn off a giant incense cedar in my backyard which came crashing down on my neighbor's elaborately maintained garden, just as my neighbor and his wife were looking out the back window to see what the storm was doing - resulting in nearly a year of financial drama), the storm made the city-owned street tree in my parking strip sway wildly, finally ripping the power drop cable from PG&E out of my wall, cutting off all electricity. After PG&E capped the live line and told me that the location of the break meant that it was my financial responsibility to fix, I restored the connection and then got into a two-month pissing match with PG&E (every Northern Californian's most hated utility) before they reconnected it after I pulled strings with then-Berkeley City Councilmember Kate Harrison, who called up a midlevel exec at the utility and did a little yelling. My power was restarted before the end of that day.

In the meantime, my life sort of stopped. I was roaming around the city with power strips, charging bricks, and chargers for a laptop and phone trying to collect enough juice each day from libraries and cafes to limp through the night and do it all again the next day. The generator+USB charger on the Luxos U came into play, both to incrementally recharge my phone and to charge charger bricks, which I could then use to recharge other gadgets. The experience taught me a lot of survivalist skills, and it also taught me where there are uncontrolled publicly accessible wall sockets and WiFi (East Bay tidbit: There are tons of open AC outlets on Lower Sproul Plaza at UC Berkeley, presumably for prospective students/parents on campus tours, and the open WiFi network from the ASUC student union is crazy fast. A lot of the Telegraph Avenue street people take advantage of what's essentially a public resource).

To the best of my knowledge, no current USB-charger headlight includes an internal battery. This makes sense; the extra weight of the Luxos U was a factor in breaking two front mounting bolts for MAFAC centerpulls, as I had mounted the headlight at the end of one of those little TA handlebar bag racks that attach to the mounting bolt and the pivot bolts of MAFAC brakes. I believe the extra weight plus the vibration of the rack while moving stressed weak points in the 50-70 year old brake mounting bolt that opened up micro-cracks that wouldn't have expanded much without the stress.

If you're really nervous about the risk of an irregular power supply to recharge sensitive gadgets, then using the charger to recharge a brick is a natural, especially if you're using a front rack and/or front/handlebar bag: Stick the brick in the bag (or strap it to the rack), run an appropriate cable from the charger to the brick, and ride on. Then you can use the brick to charge whatever USB thing you've got once you're off the bike.

Peter "unwilling survivalist" Adler

Berkeley, California

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

This is wild. WILD. I really enjoyed reading it, and I was panicking, right there with you! You should write them a product review.

L

[Anthony Holden]

Oh, man. Those wheels are gonna look ACE!!

I'll chime in anecdotally that the difference between 42-48 isn't super noticeable as long as you get your PSI where it feels comfy for you. Have an amazing time on that 2-day ride.

As for front rack security, I don't use a strap, but I also check bolt tension fairly regularly. The straps are ugly, but are great for peace of mind if you don't check your bolts always before getting out on a ride.

On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 9:21:08 AM UTC-7 J wrote:

You don't say which Gravel King model you are using, but I see in your Philly post that you have Ultradynamico Cava tires on your bike. So maybe you run the file tread GK? Anyhow, I rode through 2 sets of 700x42 Gravel King SK on my old Sam Hillbourne before moving up to 700x50 which just barely fit. I thought I'd notice a big difference but it turned out not to be true, as long as I kept the air pressure up. I only have 650b bikes now, and don't ride Gravel King SK after discovering the Rene Herse file tread much smoother and faster "feeling". I've switched back and forth from 42 and 48mm RH file treads as well as 42 Gran Bois and have settled on 48mm RH (Switchback Hill) which measures quite a bit over 48mm on my wheels. The 42mm tires gave the perception that I was faster but the strava data did not corroborate, and the 48mm have so much lovely float over gravel compared to anything narrower or with tooth, I figured why bother? YMMV but I think 48s won't be an issue. If my words sway you at all towards RH, just keep in mind that they are not great in wet conditions with steep descents combined with rim brakes. I learned this twice this fall, and kept RH knobbies on until a few days ago. 

mysterious J

On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 11:42:19 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

The 60 mm Schwalbe Big Ones that used to be on my dirt road Matthews were among the very fastest-rolling tires I've used, including various "racing" tires and 2 extralight RH models. I'd say that the right 48 mm tire will roll plenty fast. 

I've not used any Gravel Kings.

Patrick "it's not my tires that make me slow" Moore

On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 7:10 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

... Can 48 mm tires do a 15-17 mph road ride pace? I have 42 on all my other bikes. Would 48s be slow? The ride is a 2 day event, 100 miles total. I’d like to keep the tires if I could, because they’re new and they are fat enough to also double as gravel tires, should I decide to do a gravel ride again. But I do more road rides than anything else, and if those 48s will cripple me, I’ll go back to 42s. What’s the consensus?

[Chris Halasz]

Leah

I posted a separate thread announcing the arrival of the new (at least to me!) and updated versions of the ubiquitous Gravelkings. 

More choices - but some look nice! 

Cheers, 

Chris 

[ascpgh]

While not an "on the ride" charging option, portable solar panel rigs are becoming close to interesting for situations where sunlight can be tapped for charging devices or bricks. An NYT take on panels and banks: NYT Wirecutter review

I hope development soon reaches a point where a bag top solar panel might have utilitarian output more than a dynamo hub for maintaining a smartphone and a brick/power bank, not just an array that can be opened up when stopped. Powering a bank is the key, it buffers devices from fluctuating outputs. That function in a bicycle light was just too much as Peter described. 

Even if not used while riding, an easily deployed solar panel charging system that you could pop out when stopping could scavenge powering opportunitiees as you go. Lunchtime, time at destination before sunset. As the military relies increasingly on devices carried by individuals a performance balance between carrying charged batteries/bricks and recharging options is evolving and offering greater independence.

My wife's neice and engineer husband finished out their Transit van for living at the onset of the pandemic. He was knew to let someone with knowledge and skills install a solar roof panel and power bank specified to their living and working from the van. While the he grasped the concept of a charging, storing and use draw of electricity, he did not appreciate the same for the water system and used the tiny transfer pump's output directly to faucet or shower instead of employing an accumulator/point of use reservoir. It was the intolerable issue that ended their van life period in the western National Parks. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh 

On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 8:41:26 PM UTC-4 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

[Wesley]

When I go on a two day ride, I just put my phone in airplane mode. It (a five-year-old iPhone) will stay charged for more than a week that way. When I need to use it for anything other than a camera, I take it off airplane mode. As Max suggested, you can also carry an external battery for charging in a pinch.

-Wes

[Jay Lonner]

Currently bikepacking in the Sonoran Desert (Sky Islands West loop) and have had no problems keeping my devices charged up with the combination of a SON dynohub, Sinewave Beacon, and Goal Zero solar panel and battery pack. As others have said the key is to use the charging sources to power the battery bank, it does a better job handling the varying current inputs. 

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA (but currently camped out in the Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge)

Sent from my Atari 400

On Mar 27, 2024, at 7:48 AM, Wesley <brooks...@gmail.com> wrote:

When I go on a two day ride, I just put my phone in airplane mode. It (a five-year-old iPhone) will stay charged for more than a week that way. When I need to use it for anything other than a camera, I take it off airplane mode. As Max suggested, you can also carry an external battery for charging in a pinch.

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