Annoying unwanted commentary/advice while riding a Rivendell.

[Julian]

I was out on my Rambouillet on a club ride on Sunday (a near perfect spring day -- sun, blue skies, temps in upper 70's, little wind), enjoying the day and the company for the most part, until a fellow I do not really know (those who know me consider the Ram comparatively normal for me!)  rode up on a carbon "wonder bike", said "where'd you get that relic?," "that thing must be a tank," "you're making the club look bad," and a few other choice bits accompanied by a chuckle or two. 

I tried to be polite, pointing out it was not really vintage, that Rivs have great ride characteristics, beautiful aesthetics, that It was the right bike for "me" etc. -- to no avail. After a few minutes of this I got fed up and told him to be quiet and rode away from him. I'm not sure how best to deal with people like that. 

I get this sort of thing from time to time, but usually really minimal compared to this joker. How do you respond? 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

[Deacon Patrick]

Breath is wasted on ignorant arrogance like that. Ignore him.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Steve Palincsar]

I think that would have called for what the diplomats call a "frank and
free exchange of views."

[dougP]

"So why would you be interested in my old steel tank?"

Dougp

[cyclotourist]

So there's always this: https://youtu.be/GpwxdvuOMQA?t=1m22s

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 7:06 PM, dougP <doug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "So why would you be interested in my old steel tank?"
>
> Dougp
>

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Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[BSWP]

My '98 LongLow seems to attract people looking for mustard... specifically, Grey Poupon. I have no idea why.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Don Compton]

Julian,

Don't take stuff like that too seriously. I used to hear that crap and the assh$#les would get real quiet when I passed them up  a hill. At 64 and a bad back, I stay away from long, hilly rides, but I still ride my Riv. Rivs are not racing bikes, but they are bikes for those of us that love to ride and enjoy our own pace. 

In the scheme of things, we've got these morons beat in riding pleasure and satisfaction. We win.

[dstein]

Whatever, just smile and nod and keep on pedaling. Hopefully by 'rode away from him' that means you sped off in front of him, if not it doesn't even matter. I often get people commenting on my rivendell and similar bikes, i generally think they're positive but there's this weird west coast passive aggressive thing I've noticed in the 5 years that I've lived here that makes me think some are likely making fun of me. Doesn't matter either way. Just enjoying the ride. 

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:42:39 PM UTC-7, Julian wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

My Rivendells always get "That's a cool bike!" reactions, here in ABQ. If I were in your situation, I'd have told the idiot, "You must be new to cycling" or "Is your name Fred?"

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The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world revolves.) Carthusian motto

It is we who change; He remains the same. Eckhart

Kinei hos eromenon. (It moves [all things] as the beloved.) Aristotle

[sameness]

My New Year's resolution back in '03 was to stop caring about what assholes think. It's the only resolution I've ever kept.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

[Joe Bernard]

I realize most Rivsters aspire to a higher calling of peace, but I'm not that guy. My response: "In what world does it make sense to you to talk shit about my bike? Go ahead, I'll wait."

I'll put some effort into suffering fools gladly. Morons get no such grace.

[Ron Mc]

Offering unsolicited advice is the definition of a control freak

[Michael Hechmer]

I suspect it's more about reassuring himself than actually trying to control you.  How about, "Thank you for sharing, but your opinions are none of my business."

Michael

[Julian]

Heh! I'm surprised he did not comment on the fact I carry a full sized frame pump instead of CO2! 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

[Julian]

Yes, I did speed off up a hill, which felt good.   :)    

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

[Julian]

Thanks to all -- not really that big of a deal, just annoying. 

It is true that most comments I get are positive. 

We'll have to see if he continues to show up on rides, and if he's had his fill of being obnoxious with me. 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

[Garth]

I can lie to anyone about anything, and that lying includes why this is better or worse than that, I am right and you are wrong, and continue to lie by giving evidence to support my claim and deny yours. Huh. That feels pretty crappy, but there I go teĺling another lie of excuses ! Huh. I can fool the world and even myself , for awhile...... but I can never ever fool my heart. The heart knows nothing of this polarizing of right and wrong, good and bad, superioŕ and inferior......it is all meaningless because it all speaks of everything the heart is not and never could possibly be, limited in any way. Pure.

Anyone that disagrè with this would be like an echo of self lying, the futility of claiming the impossible is possible.

So I ride my bicycle this day and live my life from my heart..... just like being in love. Not the kind of love hat is afraid of it going away, but the love that is irrevocably with me and all there is of "me". It's the darndest thing....... smiling....

Here is as good any other here , so here is actually as wonderful and as possible here. Huh. How bout that..........

[Ron Mc]

Michael, that still defines a control freak.  For me, it wouldn't be worth a retort, maybe just a grin.  Getting into bike conversations is always part of the fun, and it's fair to expect it to work both ways.  Again, I would give an ear to the guy and if he didn't have an ear for me, just keep pedaling.  

[Ron Mc]

and if all else fails and the need to retort prevails, there's always the Bullwinkle show  http://bullwinkle.toonzone.net/knowall.wav

[Mark in Beacon]

 When I visit my mother on the Jersey Shore, where I've been riding with the Atlantic Bicycle Club since Lemond won the tour, I am generally the  only rider on steel. One day I showed up with my Ron Kitching, which admittedly has a decent amount of beausage. The club president greeted me with "Where did you get that P-O-S?" More or less in a joking spirit.

As for your encounter, it does sound annoying. But I would not judge quite so harshly. This person is probably a bit socially inept. I would try one of two strategies. First, a bit of humor. "I wanted a Trek Madone, but they don't come in orange, so the sales person recommended this bike." "Yes, I would love a Calfee. Sadly, I am highly allergic to carbon fibers and break out in awful hives. Oops, you're getting a little too close there!" If this does not quell his desire to dispense free commentary, try deflecting the attention back to him: "Enough about me. How much does your bike weigh? Wow! How much with you on it?" "Hey, cool jersey. I just love the way it follows every contour of your bod. Sex-ay!" As a last resort, If he still won't leave you alone, try the Mafia Guy on Trial Insanity move:"I have to ride steel. The reception when the space lizards contact me is so much better." If that doesn't get rid of him, you've found a riding partner for life!

[Deacon Patrick]

How do you tell them apart? Moron is a subset of fool.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Kainalu]

There's always this- (trigger warning: bike on bike violence)

https://youtu.be/GpwxdvuOMQA

-Kai
Brooklyn NY

[Preston Smith]

I get that sorta thing ALL the time, and I get a kick out of it! Being a fairly young rider, (25 years old) older roadies chat me up all the time, most of these guys are great and are familiar with Rivendell...but not all of em are fun to talk to. The latter commenting/asking "how old is that thing?" "How much does it weigh?" "You expecting rain with those fenders?" and of course "your making us look bad!" I hear that one all the time. I usually think to myself "your doing a fine job on your own". I think most of these guys just don't get it. They've been told by peers that they need a race bikes to keep up or to have fun or whatever, and when they see you, it's mind melting. They can't help but say something dumb. I wouldn't take these comments to seriously. Engage with them when you wanna talk, and laugh em off when you don't.

[Tim Gavin]

I don't go on club rides.  They don't ride where or how I like to ride.  My "club" rides gravel and b-roads.

The "roadie attitude" is another reason I stay away from club rides.

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:20 AM, Preston Smith <preston...@gmail.com> wrote:

I get that sorta thing  ALL the time, and I get a kick out of it! Being a fairly young rider, (25 years old) older roadies chat me up all the time, most of these guys are great and are familiar with Rivendell...but not all of em are fun to talk to. The latter commenting/asking "how old is that thing?" "How much does it weigh?" "You expecting rain with those fenders?" and of course  "your making us look bad!" I hear that one all the time. I usually think to myself "your doing a fine job on your own". I think most of these guys just don't get it. They've been told by peers that they need a race bikes to keep up or to have fun or whatever, and when they see you, it's mind melting. They can't help but say something dumb. I wouldn't take these comments to seriously. Engage with them when you wanna talk, and laugh em off when you don't.

[Geir Bentzen]

Here in Texas they put sensors in the street at traffic lights. A steel bike gets you a green light. Carbon fiber lets you stand there. Enjoy what you have!

Geir

[Kurt Manley]

Just pull a deli sandwich, a tall can of beer, and a cup of coffee out of your shopsack while riding and commence feasting. Offer him a gu packet.......

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:42:39 PM UTC-7, Julian wrote:

[jeffrey kane]

Mark, that's funny-- I used to ride with the ABC guys, too (but not in about 8 or more years now). I remember the president being a really tall guy named Doug. He rode one of those wacky Ti Colnago's with the double down tube and there was a mix of what I'd consider Bobish types and common Freds. I, at the time was an absolute Fred in the heyday of my racing days so I was always amused by the "old" dudes on the old bikes ...

As for the unsolicited comments: it wasn't until I bought my first 650b bike and read some of the cyclotouring/rando history articles in BQ that I came to realize just how little I really knew about cycling.

Last time I did a club ride (three summers ago) I was on my "old" Giant TCR and 23's. I had already drank the 650b x 42 cool aid at that point but was at the shore and bored and figured what the hell .... well, the group leader (a bike shop manager) gave me grief over not having my tires inflated enough. I took a deep breath and thought "wow, really?" and proceeded to discuss the pro trend towards bigger tires (like, even 25's) -- he thought I was crazy but I insisted bigger tires were in his future as a shop guy. The blank stare back was priceless …

[Will]

I think the best response is this...
 
Hey (carbon-guy) would you like to swap for an hour?

Because we know (WE KNOW) that Rivs plus 30-40 mm tires beat everything out there for speed and comfort. Those carbon frames with 24 mm tires suck.

[Geir Bentzen]

I think we should remember the positive. I have received lots of 'cool bike' type of comments to my Hunqapillar. I also teach a safety course called Group Riding Skills. The Hunqapillar is in front of the room as the demonstration bike and I use it for the outside part to teach the riders avoidance skills, braking and close proximity riding. Never a single negative comment. 

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[Eric Norris]

First of all, I’ve never heard anything but complimentary comments about any of my Rivs.

Second, I think that responding to criticism of my bike by criticizing the other guy’s bike is not an appropriate response. After all, do you really care what this other guy thinks about your bike? 

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

[Ron Mc]

Eric is right, all discourse is good and it's healthy to keep it positive.  

[Jim Bronson]

I'd let him know that "STEEL IS REAL!!!"

:D

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 8:42 PM, Julian <weste...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was out on my Rambouillet on a club ride on Sunday (a near perfect spring day -- sun, blue skies, temps in upper 70's, little wind), enjoying the day and the company for the most part, until a fellow I do not really know (those who know me consider the Ram comparatively normal for me!)  rode up on a carbon "wonder bike", said "where'd you get that relic?," "that thing must be a tank," "you're making the club look bad," and a few other choice bits accompanied by a chuckle or two. 

I tried to be polite, pointing out it was not really vintage, that Rivs have great ride characteristics, beautiful aesthetics, that It was the right bike for "me" etc. -- to no avail. After a few minutes of this I got fed up and told him to be quiet and rode away from him. I'm not sure how best to deal with people like that. 

I get this sort of thing from time to time, but usually really minimal compared to this joker. How do you respond? 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

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[ChrisB]

Hi Julian

On the occasions that I took my AHH into a bike shop here in the UK the staff were always really impressed and told me what a lovely bike they thought it was. Often the owners (who, admittedly, were older) made a point of coming out to talk to me about it. To me these are the knowledgeable folks who know bikes and their genuine admiration made me feel good about my choice and their shop. In a similar vein to others, the AHH was, by a long shot, the bike that got the most admiration from people (family, friends and total strangers). My wife even had me bring it into the studio once when we had a family portrait done! Viva la difference!

Chris

[Steven Butcher]

My inclination is to thank the individual for his or her concern then allow them to blissfully continue in their ignorance. 

[Patrick Moore]

The problem is not merely the Fred's ignorant opinions about bicycles, it's also his blatant rudeness, and IMO, a cheerful putdown is not at all out of place for such rudeness and crassness. "Cheerful." Isn't "admonish the foolish" a work of mercy?

Once again, I have received only praise for my Rivendells and, when I owned that '58 Herse, the employees younger and older at the high end bike shop (High Desert) where I took it for repairs were all fascinated by it.

[Eric Norris]

I should have bought that Herse ...

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

On Apr 19, 2016, at 9:10 AM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

The problem is not merely the Fred's ignorant opinions about bicycles, it's also his blatant rudeness, and IMO, a cheerful putdown is not at all out of place for such rudeness and crassness. "Cheerful." Isn't "admonish the foolish" a work of mercy?

Once again, I have received only praise for my Rivendells and, when I owned that '58 Herse, the employees younger and older at the high end bike shop (High Desert) where I took it for repairs were all fascinated by it.

[Ron Mc]

I'm lucky - have never seen one in my size

[Patrick Moore]

I sold it to a randonneuse in Georgia, who loves it -- a Herse but not a "collectible" one.

I should have kept that Motobecane!

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The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu

Stat crux dum volvitur orbis. (The cross stands motionless while the world revolves.) Carthusian motto

It is we who change; He remains the same. Eckhart

Kinei hos eromenon. (It moves [all things] as the beloved.) Aristotle

[NickBull]

That's already the best response possible ... as long as you could stay ahead of him for a decent interval.  If his wunderbike is so wunderful, why isn't he keeping up with you on it?

Alternatively, you could always tell him how much you admire his plastic Big Wheel bike.

[Ron Mc]

You can ask him how his Vivax motor is working out

[William deRosset]

Dear Julian,

A tone deaf rider for sure. A response like, "Well, the proof of the bike is in the riding," and a pointed change of topic would be my strategy. Or a change of position in the double paceline might be in order. A gentle roll off the front sounds like your response. I am just not that fast/competitive these days.

I get a very few comments on the club runs like yours, but if they continue with the distance events, then they will figure it out. I ordinarily will point positive, and answer questions straight. Sometimes the interlocutor is just expressing ignorance and curiosity.

Cheers,

Will

William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO

[Brian Campbell]

I have taken George Carlin's advice to heart in matters like the one described:

"Never argue with idiots. They will only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."  (or something akin to that!)

[Mike in WA]

True Freds are to be pitied, not scorned. Have a laugh with this lycra warrior rap (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn29DvMITu4).

[Julian]

Will, 

I'm not really that fast/competitive either -- but in this case more so than my carbon-ated inquisitor!   :) 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

[Ron Mc]

yes, I'm always wondering why the roadies laugh when I pass them on my upright

[Andy Williams]

Yessssssss.............

Andy

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 8:25:03 PM UTC-7, sameness wrote:

My New Year's resolution back in '03 was to stop caring about what assholes think. It's the only resolution I've ever kept.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

[Daniel D.]

Surprised to see so many CAT 6 racers on here :p

[IanA]

I'd take that over the comments that I get.  My bikes are Riv-like in set-up. My daily ride is a single-speed and I live in a valley, so hills in every direction.  I'm 48, most of my hair is grey and I  live in oil-country (pick-up trucks and guts) and people just can't believe a man of my age could be riding a bicycle in normal clothes.  People surprisingly often ask straight-out "hold old ARE you?".  I'm going to have to move soon.  I'm fed-up with defending mankind's right to be healthy in their prime.  I wish people would stick to denigrating my ride and leave me out of it!

There are none so knowledgeable as those with narrow experience.  

Ian A/ Alberta Canada

[Ryan Fleming]

funny my riv road does that too

Probably some people are pissed that you can pass them on a steel bike if they're on a carbon wunderkind  that they spent a lot of dough on.  I'd look at it that way, then you won't be so offended. I've never actually passed someone on a CF bike...Cervelo is  super popular here and actually , honestly, most people do comment on my bikes and they're not rude, they're intrigued. However, I am a 63 year-old woman who's no threat to anyone.  I do find the CF bikes interesting and intriguing too; I just have no desire to own one .Obviously YEMV.

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 9:24:53 PM UTC-5, BSWP wrote:

My '98 LongLow seems to attract people looking for mustard... specifically, Grey Poupon. I have no idea why.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Bill Lindsay]

You've got your smug filter calibrated well, double D.  :-)

[Ron Mc]

Except nobody is talking about Cat6 racers - we're discussing weekend roadies outfitted to look like them

[kielsun]

I don't think my Sam would generally beat a carbon frame rb in a flat out race, but it's going to last for a really long time, and I love riding it. Lots of people have never seen anything like it, and I enjoy explaining the reasons why it's the right bike for me. If dude likes his bike and seems to be having a good ol' time on the ride, good for him. To each his own. I hope his bike makes him as happy as mine does me.

The real issue seems to be his smug attitude, and unfortunately, offering unsolicited advice in return won't solve much of anything. I love the idea of offering to swap for a while. I'm definitely giving this a shot if ever in the situation!

BK

[Evan E.]

One day I'd love to see a thread in which no one says something to the effect of "Those Lycra-clad roadies stop laughing at my bike when I drop them without even trying."  I am definitely not criticizing anyone on this thread, or any bike riders in particular. I'm just observing that many of us riders seem to be competitive to some degree, and on threads such as these we find various ways to bash roadies and Freds, etc., for being rude, smug, competitive, slow in the head, not strong enough to hang with us on our lugged steel bikes. Just ride, right?  :)

[Ron Mc]

Right? Wrong. Folks making observations with a narrow brush. No wide generalizations except your own.

[Ron Mc]

Evan, we're not bad people.  We're not badmouthing your friend with the carbon bike (or you if you have one - knock your lights out).  Life is full of strange encounters, some leave us feeling mildly insulted, some stick out in our minds.  Every day we have weird experiences whether driving behind a Volvo, or showing up at the river with a '70s fiberglass fly rod and meeting a guy who stepped out of the LL Bean catalog.  Humor by definition is a healthy refocusing of anger.  Stand up comics earn a meager living throwing out their life examples.  Julian opened this thread with a curious encounter of his own.  We all have them, pedaling either direction.  Sometimes people's strange expressions are just their performance grimace.  But when their expression changes just for you, it's natural to internalize it and try to figure out what it's about.  

You seem to want more understanding and context, so I'll offer.  When I ride, it's most often for calories.  I like to pump out 50 to 100 mi / week.  It doesn't make me lean and racy, but lets me pretty much eat what I choose.  When I jump on my bike on a Sunday morning and my daughter is still asleep.  Up early, out and quick to be off the rural roads before the hungover guys get out in their pickups.  I'm going to ride 26 miles and be back in 2 under hours.  400' drop to the creek bottom.  2-mile hill up to the county park for a water and stretch break,  on the way back, so I don't want to ride the cliff side against the creek, so I turn up and make the climb to the rolling hills.  There is a good stop at the top of that climb.  One day leaving that stop, I encountered a group of people on road bikes.  To cook my daughter breakfast, I don't have time to coast down the hills, and it's not my goal.  So I stand to pass these people on the first descent (I'm on my upright, which I love for all the reasons we come here).  The woman in the group laughs with incredulity.  I don't know why she did that, but it seems like it was something along the lines of, "hey, he's not supposed to do that (on that junk), I'm the one who paid to look and ride like this."  One guy in their group broke out and chased me 2 miles to the next stop sign, leaving his group a half-mile behind.  That was competitive.  

Every one of the interactions alluded on this thread would require similar context for complete understanding.  It's probably better to assume the context does exist, and it might be better to ask about the context than to make broad generalizations about the people posting them.   

[Ron Mc]

could OP a thread, pleasant encounters with other riders.  We all have them, and some of them, too, stick out.  

Why I like my carbon bike better than my steel bike.  

Why I like lycra better than baggy canvas shorts.  

Why I like gel saddles and padded underwear, etc.  

I tried one on platform pedals and walking/riding shoes that turned into cage pedals and toe clips, which is how life frequently works.  

[Jay LePree]

At the risk of repeating myself, I will share a funny story.  I have a Rivendell Rambouillet with a rear rack, fenders, lights, etc.  I use it to get back and forth to work, and depending on my route, I will encounter some small steep hills.  While riding up one of these hills, a fully kitted out guy comes behind me and rather sarcastically asks, "Nice bike, does it have a bell?"  I ring the bell and then tell him it has a horn too.  At that moment, I stand an rip a loud fart.  It kinda surprised me how loud and long it was, so I start laughing.  I am laughing so hard that it becomes contagious, and racer boy starts laughing.  We both are laughing so hard that we had to dismount and walk the bikes up the rest of the hill.

So to answer your question, "It is not the bike, it is the engine is always a good reply."  Maybe showing him the horn is a second good reply.

Jay LePree

Demarest, NJ

[Philip Kim]

hahahahahaha, 

[Ron Mc]

It's not the engine, it's the fuel

[Surlyprof]

I do find it a pity that bike frame composition can be viewed as a variable of differentiation between those who are "serious" and those who are not.  I've always ridden steel bikes (with the exception of one aluminum mtb).  I used to ride with a friend fairly regularly because we were friends aside from riding, approximately the same age and we rode about the same pace.  At the time, I rode a 2005 steel Bianchi Veloce that was a nice but far from extravagant road bike in which I could only manage up to 25mm tires (and even that was tight).  He initially rode a carbon Willier and then upgraded to a $9000 carbon BMC with electric shifting and top of the line Campy drivetrain.  Soon after I "downgraded" to my Hillborne.  He stopped calling me to ride.  He actually said that we obviously are pursuing different types of riding since I bought a "touring bike".  The Bianchi was pretty comfortable but was starting to become a bit of a strain on my neck after long rides.  I thought about keeping it for club riding and riding with friends who tend toward racing bikes.  I sold it because I never rode it anymore.

The Hillborne is by far the most comfortable, pleasurable and beautiful bike I've ever ridden.  I've found that with a lighter wheelset, Compass tires and less commuter gear, I can ride just as fast, much smoother and with more confidence than I could on my Bianchi.  I can also switch over to mixed terrain whenever I choose.  Not a possibility on the Bianchi.  So why keep a less comfortable road bike around just to be included in an occasional group ride?  I haven't actually gotten any negative comments about the my Sam, mostly positive remarks.  I have had people give it a strange look at traffic lights and then try harder to get ahead of me and stay ahead of me.  When I can keep up with them, they glance back a lot and then pedal harder.  The way I see it, in those situations, my Hillborne is helping improve both our riding.  And, if anyone in the bay area is up for a group ride, summer's coming, school is ending and I'll be up for it.

Sorry you had such a negative encounter, Julian.  I guess we just need to embrace the positive comments, ignore those who are that far out of line and enjoy the ride.

John

[Steve D.]

Yeah... Every now and then I get an oddball carbon-dude chiming in about how heavy my Atlantis looks with is 42 mm tires and gen-hub and bar-ends and friction shiftin and fat tubing. One friend dubbed my bike a "Bentley." Frankly, yes it is. My Atlantis is comfortable to ride on my morning commutes to work to Bellevue from Seattle (yeah, I bus across the 520, but looking forward to the new bridge's bike line when it opens); rain or shine. Honestly, I don't see many of these characters riding in the rain or during the dark, morning, freezing winter mornings on the BG; They seem to come out in Spring. On sunny days.

Generally, I just smile and go about my way. A few years ago a colleague criticized my Atlantis for being too "bulky" and that his carbonish racing bike got him from Kenmore to SLU much faster than my old-school bike going from NE Seattle to SLU. I tried arguing my point with these mainstream dudes on a few occasions. But stopped. It's really pointless, especially when you realize that you're just dealing with someone's ego. Besides, commuting to work is not a competition. it's more like rondoneuring--you gotta be somewhere at a certain time. For me, I'm not fast about it. Maybe I average 12 miles per hour. My Atlantis gets me there in comfort. It tracks well down hills and through curves when going at speed. It's a stable bike. If I need to go fast, the bike performs. No complaints. I just enjoy the ride. Whereas, my carbon-fiber friend who called my bike a Bentley, cracked his top tube the first day he rode his new La Pierre. Yes. he's enamored with the Tour de France look.

A couple of months ago, I loaded my bike onto the bus, and the bus driver mentioned how "beautiful" my bike is. There's a lot to be said for lugged steal, and she said it. I get this type of comment from a few bus drivers now and then.

One morning as I was locking up my bike in the bike locker at work, a guy at the other end of the room saw my bike and mentioned that he's been "lusting" for a Riv. I love my Atlantis, but I've been lusting for an AHH for years now; just can't rationalize having two bikes that's all.

A few weeks ago, I was at a corner in downtown Bellevue waiting for the light to change, and a pedestrian wanted to know how many miles I had on my bike. I really don't know. I bought the frame new in '03, and rigged it with non-aero brake levers with exposed cabling for a look that I enjoy. It donned on me that this cat thought my bike was older than it looked. I took that as a compliment.

For me, aesthetics and comfort trump technology and speed. Pulling away from the carbon-racey-dudes and their egotistic comments speaks volumes. Just sayin'. 'Nough said.

-Steve DeMont
Seattle, WA

[Hugh Smitham]

Isn't it spring? I thought topics like this were the Winter variety. "Just Ride"

[Ron Mc]

as far as the bell thing, every bike here has a bell, for pedestrians, deer and squirrels (no kidding).  

Last year, my carbon-bike buddy was hit by a deer and broke his arm and collar bone.  

He didn't have a bell and I e-mailed him that he should.  

Deer stop dead in their tracks at the sound of a bike bell, including a 200lb buck that was charging across my path when I was doing over 40 downhill (had been followed by a pickup for 3 miles because we were exceeding the speed limit)

[Evan E.]

Ron said:  "Evan, we're not bad people."

I agree! I like everybody on this list. And I like bike riders in general. My only point is that every time I see a thread such as this one (and I've seen scores of them over the years) at least one person mentions how he or she dropped/passed a roadie or a Fred. The implication is that it is always the "roadie" or "Fred" who was rude or smug or competitive or aggressive or envious or dumb or ignorant or condescending. Are other riders sometimes not nice? Yes. Do they denigrate us or our bikes? Yes. Does each case require context? Of course. But my point remains: each culture (such as bicyclists) tends to subdivide into subcultures, and some members -- not all of them -- of these subcultures enjoy pointing fingers at the members of the other subcultures who are "doing it wrong." It's human nature. No big deal. I agree with Hugh: it's springtime! Here's wishing that Julian and everyone else on this list has a safe season, with more kindness on the roads. 

 

[Ron Mc]

always is a really bad word, Evan.  (never, too).  I have a blast when I ride and exude kindness.  When I don't get it back is when it feels odd.  

[Jim Bronson]

Old enough to know better, young enough not to care ;)

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[Ron Mc]

I don't build/ride bikes for other people - except maybe my daughter.  I honestly don't care what they think.  Sometimes have to wonder why.  

A bit of internet searching can often provide answers:  http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-frames-forks/1-reason-why-you-wont-buy-rivendell-bikes-stuff-172393.html

[Patrick Kelly]

Jumping in here pretty late...

'If you are willing to look at another person’s behavior toward you as
a reflection of the state of their relationship with themselves rather
than a statement about your value as a person, then you will, over a
period of time cease to react at all.' - Yogi Bhajan

But if you do actually want to react, :), here are some responses I'd
have at hand:

* Where do you put your tent and sleeping bag?
* How do you carry groceries on that?
* What do you do with that bike when you run out of pavement?
* Do you like looking like a skunk? (if your own bike has fenders)
* How long do you think that bike will last?
* How can you ride that thing without any suspension? (non-riv-like,
but apropos)
* What's the widest tire you can fit in there?

Riv bikes address a different set of "problems" than racy bikes. For
any kind of bike, you can easily "insult" other kinds of bikes as
failing to address the concerns your bike does address.

Photography provides an excellent metaphor for trade-offs. It's
impossible to create The Perfect Camera for All Situations, because
physics. You cannot have an all-range zoom camera with wide aperture
at all focal lengths that you can carry in your pocket. It's just not
possible. Everything in life involves trade-offs, and it's impossible
to create a thing that addresses all needs, all the time.

I just recently became a riv owner, but I've been lusting after them
for quite a while. My first bike (when I took up cycling again in
2010) was a hybrid bike. People may think that Hawaii is perfect for
cycling, but the infrastructure really is not up to grade (so to
speak). Consequently, I ride routes which are away from the cars as
much as possible. I very quickly learned that my aluminum, skinny
tired (fatter than "race" but still skinny) bike was NOT good for the
riding I was doing. I jumped in the other direction for my next bike
and got a trek 29er hardtail. This was great for riding
anywhere/everywhere but was really more than I needed, too heavy and
not suited to carrying anything, and I wasn't really doing "mountain
biking". There were a few more bikes in the stream before my current
Appaloosa, but the point is that every bike addresses some needs and
not others, and it's too easy to find fault with any bike based on the
needs addressed by another kind of bike. Riv hits the points I need
for my bike, and the riding I do, but it would be pointless for me to
tell somebody else to get one, until I really knew what kind of riding
they're going to do (which very likely is different than what kind of
riding they think they want to do).

cheerios

[masmojo]

Honestly, it's been my experience that the Freds, "roadies", mamils, etc. Don't need anything to make themselves look bad; when I used to race mountain bikes some years back, I would go for long excursions on the weekend outside of town. Large groups of lycra clad roadies, would sometimes pass me & I would simply be amazed at their audacity and ambivalence towards cars & traffic. Typically, when they passed riding 6 & 7 across thoroughly blocking 1 plus lane of a narrow country road, there would be 2 or 3 cars patiently driving 20 mph behind them and would be making no attempt at all to move over & let them by! My thought!? No wonder motorists hate them!
Regarding bells, I have them on most of my bikes now, not so much because I like bells, but I found they are the most effective, non-obnoxious way to alert people ahead you are coming. You can ding your bell much earlier then you would call (or yell) & the sound of the bell really carries, and is much friendlier and cheerful.
I have always ridden unconventional bikes, but honestly I typically get more compliments; here in Texas, people may smirk or make a comment to their riding companion, but they would never even think about being rude to your face. I am constantly amazed by people who say "hey, nice bike" or "cool bike"; occasionally I think they are being condescending, but I play along and usually find that they actually know what it is I am riding and they are being sincere. ;-)

[Ryan Fleming]

Actually, in Winnipeg , I've never been dissed for what I was riding either. There are not  so many Riv owners in Winnipeg...I would guess it's a very small population (20 or so?), so  Rivs are unusual enough that they garner attention,   it's usually complimentary and this is based on 23 years as an X0-1 /Riv owner. I've never encountered  a fellow cyclist    as hostile as the guy  in Julian's original post ; that person was just being  rude. Personally speaking, I have nothing against racers or people who ride carbon fiber bikes fast..(huge fan of international racing)

 I'd like to say to Julian  that I would love to  have the grace to rise above it and just ride that person off my wheel , but that probably wouldn't happen and my inner fishwife would come out...as it does with bad drivers.  It's hard to bite your tongue when someone's being nasty and /or outright threatening though.

[James Warren]

For me, Julian's story is notable for one huge reason:

that the guy said to him, "you're making us look bad."

This will not stand, ya' know. This aggression will not stand, man.

- James

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Julian]

Hah! Too make the motley group on that ride (myself included) actually look worse than we did would be an achievement worth noting! 

[Julian]

In my experience good comments far outweigh bad, and both are dwarfed by the norm - -no comment, which is what I would expect. 

This guy was not threatening, just obnoxious and clueless -- my biggest issue was trying not to respond in kind, which is tough indeed when faced with persistent idiocy -- I felt my polite but firm response was ok, but perhaps not ideal -- "now please be quiet," followed by my best middle-aged-guy-who-was-never-fast-and-is-even-less-so-in-early-spring hill sprint, which was only marginally better than his...   :) 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, Il 

[Ron Mc]

the punch-line is the irony - his ignorance in voicing his perception of your ignorance

[Lungimsam]

Wasn't it Lon Haldeman who said something like "Bikes don't win races, muscles win races."?

Put me on a 6lb. Trek racer bike, give Lon haldeman a 45 lb. gas pipe tubed steel frame and let's see who can finish a 200k brevet first. I'll probably still be at the first control while Lon is getting his finishing stamp on his card.

[Jock Dewey]

Julian:

I was on mine the other day in the hills surrounding beautiful Athens, GA, and a group of carbons pedaled by to chat. The guy at the front hammering lifted his head long enough to shout out to all: 'now that guy is on a REAL bicycle!' Ha, I thanked him and then hung on for a while. They were all delighted.

Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

[Evan E.]

Jock: That's a great story!

Julian: It occurs to me that the guy who said mean things about your Rambouillet actually covets it. Seriously. Imagine this:

ROADIE:  "Where'd you get that relic?"

JULIAN:  (Smiles. Doesn't reply.) 

ROADIE:  "Is it from the sixties or the seventies?"

JULIAN:  "2007."

ROADIE:  "No way! That thing must be a tank."

JULIAN:  (Chuckles slightly.) "No, not really."

ROADIE:  "I can't understand why you'd ride it."

JULIAN:  "Do you want this bike?"

ROADIE:  (Surprised.) "What?"

JULIAN:  "You've dissed it four times in the last five minutes, so I can only surmise that you protest too much. You like this bike, right?"

ROADIE:  (Sputtering.)  "No!"

JULIAN:  "Come on. Your secret's safe."

ROADIE:  (Whispers.)  "Well . . . those lugs are pretty sweet."

 ~ FIN ~

[Cecily Walker]

Or better yet, smoke him on your "relic". ;)


On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:50:01 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

Breath is wasted on ignorant arrogance like that. Ignore him.

With abandon,

Patrick

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 7:42:39 PM UTC-6, Julian wrote:

[Hugh Smitham]

Hey is this John Oliver masquerading as Jim Warren?? Or perhaps the "Dude"
Priceless. "This aggression will not stand, man". ROTFL

[El Sapo]

I get the most enjoyment from just observing those guys. I ride a flat path. There are walkers, joggers, kids, dogs. Every time I go out I tell myself to enjoy the ride and forget about everything else. That lady with the Kmart full suspension bike and a bag of groceries passes me? I say hello, what a great day for a ride! When I see racers, clubs etc. They ignore me, or at least try to. I'm thinking if you are trying to have a speedy ride, why are you on this path? Sometimes the conditions are right and I might be a little hard for them to drop. In those cases I love to see the looks of pain on their faces. Seriously, these guys look like they are in pain. I imagine they are battling a case of projectile diarrhea, have a chuckle, it takes me to my happy place.  

       

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:42:39 PM UTC-7, Julian wrote:

I was out on my Rambouillet on a club ride on Sunday (a near perfect spring day -- sun, blue skies, temps in upper 70's, little wind), enjoying the day and the company for the most part, until a fellow I do not really know (those who know me consider the Ram comparatively normal for me!)  rode up on a carbon "wonder bike", said "where'd you get that relic?," "that thing must be a tank," "you're making the club look bad," and a few other choice bits accompanied by a chuckle or two. 

I tried to be polite, pointing out it was not really vintage, that Rivs have great ride characteristics, beautiful aesthetics, that It was the right bike for "me" etc. -- to no avail. After a few minutes of this I got fed up and told him to be quiet and rode away from him. I'm not sure how best to deal with people like that. 

I get this sort of thing from time to time, but usually really minimal compared to this joker. How do you respond? 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

[Patrick Moore]

I dislike officious roadies myself, but I like to remember that I've met many very friendly ones, in fact, the higher up on the racing scale, the nicer they seem. 

Some people like to toodle along, others like to push themselves, I'm rather in the middle, and I say, vive la difference.

[Don Compton]

 Patrick, As I age ( 64 ), I am still enjoying riding, but the "roadie club" rides have become less attractive to me. I put together a Sunday ride from my home and usually have 8-15 people show up. Maybe because I am getting older, I am getting less tolerant of riders whole can't appreciate the benefit of a cohesive group that allows everyone on the ride to keep up with the group. Oh well. 

Another change I see is all this Strave like crap. Whatever happened to the just, sheer enjoyment of riding? When I see this crap on my rides, I just can't wait for the ride to be over and head to the range to hit some bullseyes

Rant over.